>> AUTHOR AND JOURNALIST CHRISTOPHER WREN HAS COVERED WARS, INTRIGUE, POLITICS AND DOGSLEDDING.

HE'S SERVED AS "NEW YORK TIMES" EDITOR, CORRESPONDENT AND BUREAU CHIEF IN MOSCOW, CAIRO, BEIJING, OTTAWA AND JOHANNESBURG.

CHRISTOPHER WREN IS MY GUEST NEXT ON "PROFILE."

>> BROUGHT UP IN HOLLYWOOD, CHRISTOPHER WREN CAME EAST TO DARTMOUTH, GRADUATED CONSUME LAUD, MAGNA CONSUME LOUD, SERVED IN A SPECIAL ARMY UNIT AND EARNED A MASTER'S DEGREE WITH HONORS.

HE WORKED FOR LOOK MAGAZINES BEFORE LANDING WITH THE "NEW YORK TIMES" WHEN RESPENT 28 YEARS AS FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT AND BUREAU CHIEF.

HE'S WRITTEN FIVE BOOKS, THE ADVENTURE NOVEL, THEN NATIONAL BEST SELLER THE CAT WHO COVERED THE WORLD.

IN RETIREMENT WREN WALKED TO VERMONT, WROTE A BOOK ABOUT IT, TAUGHT AT PRINCETON AND DARTMOUTH AND IS A TRAINED JOURNALIST IN SEVERAL COUNTRIES.

HE LIVES WITH HIS WIFE IN SET FORD, VERMONT.

YOU GREW UP WITH ACTORS.

>> MY FAMILY WERE ACTORS.

IT WAS JUST NOTHING PARTICULARLY, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WERE THE KIDS OF ACTORS ALL THE OTHER KIDS WERE ACTORS' CHILDREN TOO SO IT WAS NEVER A BIG THING.

WE ALWAYS HAD ACTORS AROUND THE HOUSE AND IT WAS ALWAYS VERY ENTERTAINING.

WE NEVER HAD ANY MONEY, BUT IT WAS A GREAT WAY TO GROW UP.

>> RIGHT.

I BET.

SO YOU WENT TO DARTMOUTH.

YOU CAME EAST IN THE HEART OF THE COLD WAR AND CHOSE TO STUDY RUSSIAN.

WHY DID YOU FOCUS ON THAT?

>> WELL, I WAS DOING ROCK CLIMBING AT DARTMOUTH.

I WAS ROCK CLIMBING WITH SOMEBODY WHO SAID THERE'S A REAL COOL PROGRAM IN RUSSIAN, YOU SHOULD TRY THAT SO I ENROLLED.

I TOOK IT FOR SEVERAL YEARS AND I LOVED IT.

I COULD HAVE GRADUATED AS A RUSSIAN MAJOR BUT I THOUGHT NOBODY WOULD EVER HIRE A RUSSIAN MAJOR EXCEPT FOR THE CIA AND I DIDN'T WANT TO WORK FOR THE CIA, SO I DID MY FINALS IN ENGLISH.

BASICALLY IT WAS USEFUL.

I GOT TO THE "NEW YORK TIMES" AND THEY SAID DOES ANYONE HERE SPEAK RUSSIAN?

BOOM.

I WAS OFF.

>> YOU ACTUALLY GO INTO THE ARMY.

YOU'RE IN SPECIAL FORCES.

AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THE CIA WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED IN YOU.

WERE YOU THINKING MAYBE -- >> I DIDN'T WANT TO BE A SPY.

I WANTED A JOB WHERE I COULD SATISFY MY CURIOSITY AND HAVE SOMETHING PAY FOR IT AND I ENDED UP AS A JOURNALIST BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO.

I SAID I'LL TRY THIS FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS, SEE HOW IT WORKS.

IF I FIND SOMETHING I CAN REALLY DO TO GROW UP I'LL DO THAT INSTEAD.

[LAUGHTER] >> YOUR FIRST JOB AS A REPORTER AND EDITOR WAS FOR LOOK MAGAZINE THEN REPORTER FOR "NEWSWEEK."

>> I WAS GENERAL ED FOR FOR "NEWSWEEK."

I WROTE NATIONAL AFFAIRS.

FOR LOOK I STARTED OUT WRITING SPORTS, WHICH IS GREAT TRAINING FOR A NEW JOURNALIST.

YOU HAVE TO GET THE FACTS RIGHT.

THEN I HAPPENED TO COVER THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT DOWN SOUTH, WAS IN JAIL ONE, AND THAT WAS VERY INTERESTING.

THEN THE VIETNAM WAR I WAS OVER FOUR TIMES TO COVER THAT.

WE WORKED IN WRITER-PHOTOGRAPHER TEAMS.

I DID THAT BETWEEN 1965 AND 1970, FOUR TIMES.

>> THAT WAS REALLY POWERFUL AND ESTABLISHED YOUR REPUTATION.

>> I HAPPENED TO BE IN PLACES WHERE I WROTE STORIES THAT GOT ATTENTION.

>> SO WHEN YOU SWITCHED TO THE "NEW YORK TIMES" IT SOUNDED LIKE FROM SOME READING THAT THERE WAS REAL HOPE THAT YOU WOULD BE DOING MORE TRAVEL AND WORK ABROAD AND THE MOSCOW THING CAME UP MUCH SOONER THAN YOU THOUGHT.

>> I DIDN'T EXPECT IT.

>> IS IT YOUR DREAM JOB?

>> I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT WOULD BE GREAT TO BE MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF FOR THE "NEW YORK TIMES" BUT I REALIZED IT WAS TOTALLY UNREASONABLE SO I BUILT MY CAREER BUT I THOUGHT BEING A CORRESPONDENT WAS THE GREATEST WAY TO MAKE A LIVING.

YOU GET PAID TO SATISFY YOUR CURIOSITY AND DO IT OVERSEAS ON EXPENSE ACCOUNT.

SO THAT WAS WHAT I DECIDED TO DO.

I REALLY DIDN'T INTEND TO END UP AT THE "NEW YORK TIMES."

TWO KINDS OF PEOPLE WORK FOR THE "NEW YORK TIMES."

SOME PEOPLE ALLEGES PLAN TO WORK THERE AND WORK THEIR WAY UP.

OTHERS JUST WANT TO BE GOOD REPORTERS, PHOTOGRAPHERS, JOURNALISTS AND THEY END UP AT THE "NEW YORK TIMES."

I WAS BAFFLED.

I GOT A VERY GOOD RUN THERE.

THEY TREATED ME VERY WELL.

>> WHEN I SAY OKAY, WE HAVE -- A JOB HAS JUST OPENED UP IN MOSCOW, YOU HAVE A WIFE, TWO CHILDREN, THREE AND SEVEN AT THE TIME.

>> AND A CAT.

[LAUGHTER] >> AND A CAT.

DID YOU HESITATE AT ALL OR DID YOUR FAMILY ABOUT -- >> ABOUT ACCEPTING?

>> STARTING THAT CAREER AS A FOREIGN CONCORDANT?

>> I CONSIDERED IT FOR ABOUT THREE SECONDS THEN I SAID YES, I'LL DO IT.

THEN MY WIFE HAD TO COME ALONG.

SHE HAD MORE RESERVATIONS, AND OUR CHILDREN SAID, WELL, THEY WOULD GO BUT THEY WOULDN'T LEAVE WITHOUT THE CAT.

SO WE ENDED UP WRITING A WHOLE BOOK ABOUT THE CAT WHO WENT AROUND THE WORLD WITH US.

SO MY WIFE FINALLY DECIDED WE'LL GIVE IT A TRY AND WE WENT OVERSEAS.

AT THAT POINT THAT WAS THE FIRST OF 17.5 YEARS OVERSEAS.

>> AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THROUGH THE CAT WHO COVERED THE WORLD YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR FAMILY A LOT YOU WOULD RECOMMEND THIS, YOUR KIDS SEEMED TO REALLY THRIVE ON BEING IN A DIFFERENT PLACE.

>> AT ONE POINT I CAME BACK AND I WAS ASSISTANT FOREIGN EDITOR THEN WE HAD A BUREAU OPEN UP IN SOUTH AFRICA WHERE WE HAD BEEN KICKED OUT.

I HAD GONE BACK TO RENEGOTIATE THE OPENING THE BUREAU IN THE YEARS OF APARTHEID.

THE MANAGING EDITOR SAID WOULD YOU LIKE TO DO THE BUREAU?

I SAID I WOULD LOVE TO GO.

I DIDN'T THINK MY WIFE WOULD SAY THEY WOULD BUT ALL OUR CHILDREN, EVERYBODY AGREED TO GO OVERSEAS.

IT WAS VERY INTERESTING.

ONE OF THE THINGS WAS INTERESTING WAS THAT WHO WE GOT OVER THERE THE CHILDREN RUSHED TO TURN ON THE TELEVISION SET IN MOSCOW AND IT WAS AGRICULTURAL SUCCESSES IN KAZAKHSTAN.

THEY SAY, DADDY, WHERE IS THE REAL TELEVISION?

I SAID YOU'VE LEFT IT BEHIND.

THIS IS WHAT THEY WATCH HERE.

SO THEY BECAME GREAT, INCREDIBLE READERS.

THAT'S WHAT THEY DID FOR ENTERTAINMENT.

IF THEY HAD HAD VERMONT PUBLIC TELEVISION WHICH WE WATCH ALL THE TIME THIS WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED.

BUT JUST LIVING OVERSEAS THEY HAD A DIFFERENT LIFE, THEY GOT TO HAVE FRIENDS IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.

VERY INTERESTING.

>> VERY RICH.

AND THEY ARE GOING GREAT.

I WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO READ FROM ONE OF YOUR BOOKS, CALLED WALKING TO VERMONT.

WHEN YOU RETIRED FROM THE "NEW YORK TIMES" YOUR FIRST ACT OF RETIREMENT WAS TO LITERALLY WALK FROM THE "NEW YORK TIMES" -- >> I WALKED OUT OF THE BUILDING, CLEANED OUT MY DESK AND THREW THE STUFF IN A BACKPACK AND STARTED WALKING NORTH.

>> QUITE REMARKABLE.

WONDERFUL.

THE ADVENTURE IS ENTER LACED WITH MEMORIES.

YOU HAVE A LOVELY KIND OF RICH SUMMARY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> PUT YOU IN PERSPECTIVE HERE.

JUST THESE TWO PARAGRAPHS IF YOU WOULD.

>> JOURNALISM IS A GREAT WAY TO PERPETUATE THE EUROSSITY YOU DEVELOPED AS A CHILD.

HI CLIMBED THE GREAT WALL OF CHINA, RIDDEN ON HORSEBACK PAST THE GREAT PYRAMIDS OF GIZA, WADED IN SNOWDRIFTS IN MOSCOW'S RED SQUARE AND GAPED AT THE GILDED DOMES ON THE SILK ROAD TO ASIA.

I TALKED MY WAY THROUGH ENCOUNTERS WITH GUERILLAS, MET DRUG THUGS IN COLOMBIA AND BURMA.

ROAMED THE BACK COUNTRY OF TIBET AND YEMEN.

AS CLOSE AS YOU CAN GET TO THE DARK SIDE OF THE MONTH WITHOUT ACTUALLY LEAVING EARTH.

I INTERVIEWED PRESIDENTS AND PRIME MINISTERS AND SAINTS AND SCOUNDRELS.

ICON TRIEFD TO DO IT ALL ON AN EXPENSE ACCOUNT.

>> TERRIFIC.

AN AMAZING LIFE AS A FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT.

ONE OF THE STORIES THAT INTERESTED ME WAS ONE WHERE YOU ACTUALLY BECOME PART OF THE STORY.

YOU JOIN THE STORY.

YOU'RE IN JOHANNESBURG AND A FELLOW JOURNALIST AND YOU SEE SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN STABBED.

YOU GO OUT TO HELP HIM.

>> WE DROPPED THE STORY AND WENT OUT.

A MAN WALKING DOWN THE STREET HAD BEEN STABBED.

THERE WERE SEVERAL FIGHTING.

I THOUGHT HE WAS DRUNK AND MY FRIEND BILL SCHILLER FROM THE TORONTO STAR SAWED, NO, HE HAS A KNIFE IN HIS BACK.

WE HAD TO PIN HIM DOWN AND KEEP HIM UP RIGHT.

I TRIED TO PULL IT OUT, BUT IT WAS IN SO DEEP, IT WAS JUST A KITCHEN KNIFE.

SO WE KEPT HIM UP RIGHT UNTIL WE COULD GET SOMEBODY TO GET HIM, AN PLANS.

BUT IT TOOK A LOT OF WORK TO KEEP HIM ALIVE.

>> HOW OFTEN DO YOU BECOME THE STORY OR WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THE STORY WHEN YOU BECOME THAT PERSONALLY INVOLVED?

>> WELL, WHEN YOU BECOME THE STORY LIKE THAT I DIDN'T WRITE THAT.

YOUR JOB IS TO GO OUT AND REPORT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE FEELING AND WHAT OTHER PEOPLE -- IS HAPPENING TO OTHER PEOPLE, NOT WHAT HAPPENS TO YOURSELF, AND IF YOU WANT TO HIT A BUZZ THEY'RE SENDS ME UP THE WALL IT'S SOMEBODY I GET ABSOLUTELY FURIOUS, SOMEONE ON CAMERA WHO TALKS ABOUT HOW RISKY IT IS AND HOW DANGEROUS IT IS, BUT IF IT'S RISKY FOR A JOURNALIST, IT'S MORE RISKY FOR THE PEOPLE YOU COVER.

AND I THINK -- IT'S POMPOUS TO SAY, WELL, MY LIFE IS AT RISK.

NO.

OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVES ARE AT RISK AND YOURS IS BUT WHEN I WOULD GO OVER TO THESE PLACES I HAD A FLAK JACKET, I HAD THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN A MONEY BELT, A U.S.

PASSPORT.

I HAD A UP IN THAT WOULD TRY TO GET ME OUT IF I GOT HURT AS HAPPENED WITH A FRIEND OF MINE WHO WAS SHOT IN THE BACK AND THEY MOVED HEAVEN AND EARTH AND GOT HIM OUT OF THERE.

THE PEOPLE I WAS COVERING DIDN'T HAVE THAT LUXURY, SO I ALWAYS FELT VERY UNCOMFORTABLE WHEN PEOPLE SAY, OH, WASN'T JOURNALISM SO DANGEROUS.

>> WELL, THERE ARE WAR CORRESPONDENTS WHO THRIVE ON THIS AND YOU HAVE COVERED WARS IN VIETNAM, CLEARLY, BOSNIA, THE MIDDLE EAST, AFRICA.

>> THE BALKANS.

YES.

>> HOW DO SOME OF THESE WAR CORRESPONDENTS WHO THRIVE ON THIS, THEY ARE REALLY A DIFFERENT BREED, AREN'T THEY?

HOW DO YOU COVER THIS DIFFERENTLY THAN THAT?

>> I GUESS SO.

THERE'S AN ADRENALINE HIGH TO COVERING A WAR I THINK AS THERE IS FOR YOUNG RECRUITS GOING TO WAR.

ADRENALINE IS PUMPING.

I GUESS YOU GET A FIX, BUT I THINK THIS REALLY SOUROUS JOURNALISTS, PETER ARNETT, WHO IS A GREAT CORRESPONDENT WHO I ADMIRED FOR MANY YEARS, HE SAID THE PROBLEM WITH GETTING KILLED ON A STORY IS YOU NEVER HAVE A CHANCE TO FILE IT.

BUT YOUR JOB IS TO GET THE INFORMATION, GET IT AS ACCURATE AS POSSIBLE, REFLECT THE PEOPLE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AND THEN GET OUT AND WRITE IT.

THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE I KNOW WHO CHASE THE WARS, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU'RE THERE FOR.

SO, YES, THERE ARE CERTAIN CORRESPONDENTS WHO SPECIALIZE IN WARS AND LOVE TO CHASE WARS.

THEY LIVE HARD, BUT THEY WERE A SMALL SUBSET.

I WAS TALKING TO A FRIEND OF MINE WHO IS A VERY GOOD WAR CORRESPONDENT A FEW MONTHS AGO WHEN I WAS AT THE "NEW YORK TIMES."

HE SAID THIS WAR IN IRAQ IS SO DANGEROUS FOR REPORTERS THAT ALL OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE USED TO COVER WARS HAVE DECIDED IT'S NOT WORTH THE RISK.

HE MENTIONED SO AND SO IS NOT THERE.

SO AND SO IS NOT THERE.

THEY WOULD COVER STUFF ELSEWHERE BUT NOT IN IRAQ BECAUSE IT'S TOO DANGEROUS.

>> I WAS WONDERING WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE ON RISK?

AT ONE POINT YOU TALK ABOUT TAKING YOUR SON TO WAR-TORN MOZAMBIQUE.

ONE THING I THOUGHT WAS SO INTERESTING THAT YOU SAID IS TO ENSURE THAT YOU WOULDN'T DO ANYTHING RECKLESS.

HE'S 20 AT THIS POINT, A PHOTOGRAPHER.

>> YEAH.

HE TOOK A YEAR OFF FROM SCHOOL, FROM COLLEGE, TO GO OUT.

>> WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE AROUND RISK BECAUSE YOU HAVE A FAMILY AND PEOPLE TO GO BACK TO AND YOUR OWN LIFE TO CONSIDER.

>> I TRY NOT TO DO ANYTHING OVERLY RISKY BUT THE PROBLEM IS NOT -- THE PROBLEM IS GETTING INTO A SITUATION THAT SUDDENLY BECOMES RISKY APPEARED THAT'S A PROBLEM SO YOU JUST TRY TO -- YOU TRY NOT TO GET YOURSELF -- ONE OF THE THINGS YOU LEARN WHEN YOU GET INTO A SITUATION YOU START THINKING ABOUT HOW TO GET OUT OF THAT SITUATION.

AND IT'S VERY EASY TO WANDER OFF.

I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS IN BOSNIA JUST BEFORE I GOT THERE I WAS TALKING WITH A U.P.

GUY WHO WAS VERY GOOD DURING THE WAR THERE.

HE SAID THEY FLEW IN A CREW OF I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NETWORK WAS AND THEY FLEW IN A CREW WITH A PRODUCER, CAMERAMAN, SOUND MAN AND REPORTER AND THEY GOT THERE IN SARAJEVO AND THE THEY WERE SUPPOSED WEAR FLAK JACKETS.

HE TOOK THE FLAK JACKET OFF AND THE HELMET.

HE SAID I'M NOT GOING TO USE THIS.

HE USED A FOUR-LETTER WORD.

ONE MINUTE LATER THE MORTAR SHELLS CAME IN AND HE WAS KILLED.

EVERYBODY ELSE SURVIVED.

YOU THINK ABOUT THAT AND YOU SAY, YOU JUST DON'T TAKE THE RISKS.

YOU DON'T WANT TO LET THE RISK DOMINATE WHY YOU'RE THERE.

YOU'RE THERE TO GATHER NEWS, TO GET THE STORY.

YOU MAY HAVE TO TAKE RISKS BUT THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU GET PAID FOR.

>> RIGHT.

YOU CERTAINLY DO TAKE RISKS AND YOU'VE GOTTEN INTO TROUBLE.

YOU TALKED ABOUT WHEN YOU DIDN'T DO YOUR HOMEWORK QUITE ENOUGH IN MANILA, IN THE PHILIPPINES.

>> I WENT TO LINK UP WITH THE MUSLIM GUERILLAS.

I DIDN'T REALIZE THERE WAS LIBYAN MONEY IN THERE AND THIS WAS VERY DANGEROUS.

I GOT IN THERE AND MY CONTACT TOOK OFF, HE WAS AFRAID, I WAS LEFT ALONE IN A STRANGE TOWN.

I GOT OUT OF THERE.

WHAT I DID WAS I WAITED FOR THE NEXT DAY.

THE COPS, LOCAL COPS PUT PEOPLE WHERE I WAS STAYING THEY SAID -- THEY TOLD ME THAT MY LIFE WAS AT RISK.

THEY SAID THERE'S A HIT SQUAD GOING AFTER ME.

I WAITED THE NEXT DAY AND THIS IS A TECHNIQUE I LEARNED IN THE AMERICAN SOUTH, THE BEST TIME TO TRAVEL SO THE KU KLUX KLAN WOULDN'T GET YOU IS SUNDAYS WHEN THE BIGOTS WERE AT CHURCH.

I SAY THIS IS AS A VERY ACTIVE EPISCOPALIAN.

I THOUGHT, WHY DON'T I DO THAT HERE?

I GOT A TAXI LINED UP.

AS SOON AS THEY HAD THE CALL TO PRAYER I JUMPED IN THE TAXI.

THEY RECITED NOON PRAYERS, I STRETCHED OUT IN THE BACK SEAT, SAID, I WANT TO GO TO THE COAST.

>> YOU'VE TRAVELED TO OVER 70 COUNTRIES.

>> ROUGHLY.

>> WHAT'S THE FIRST THING YOU DO WHEN YOU GET TO A PLACE?

IS THERE A RITUAL YOU HAVE OR MAYBE NO.

>> HAVE A BEER.

[LAUGHTER] NO, THE FIRST THING YOU DO IS CHECK YOUR COMMUNICATIONS.

WHAT IS YOUR -- CAN YOU FILE OUT OF THERE.

YOU ARRIVE, YOU CHECK YOUR COMMUNICATIONS, CHECK THE HOTEL.

IF IT'S A HOTEL THAT HAS -- IF THERE'S A WAR ON YOU LOOK, YOU DON'T WANT TO STAY ON THE TOP FLOOR OR FACING THE STREET.

YOU STAY IN THE NEXT TO TOP FLOOR IN THE BACK WHERE IT'S SAFER.

THIS IS ONLY IN EXTREME CIRCUMSTANCES.

IS THERE A MATTRESS YOU CAN PUSH AGAINST THE WALL IF THERE'S INCOMING.

BASICALLY WHAT AM I GOING TO DO ABOUT GETTING A STORY AND HOW AM I GOING TO GET IT FILED.

YOU GET YOUR LAPTOP RIGGED UP.

>> HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT STORY TO GO AFTER?

SOMETIMES IT'S VERY OBVIOUS, BUT YOU HAVE DONE DOGSLEDDING IN THE ARCTIC.

THAT'S FASCINATING.

NOT LIKE NELSON MANDELA BEING RELEASED BUT THAT'S THE STORY.

>> YOU LOOK FOR THINGS THAT ARE INTERESTING THAT YOU THINK WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW ABOUT.

AND THEN YOU REPORT ON THOSE.

YOU GATHER THE MATERIAL AND SOME OF THE STUFF YOU THROW OUT, FILM IS CHEAP, NOTEBOOKS ARE CHEAP.

YOU COLLECT -- SORT OF A VACUUM CLEANER JOURNALISM.

YOU GET ALL THIS MATERIAL, YOU FIND SOMETHING INTERESTING AND TALK TO A LOT OF PEOPLE.

I WOULD GO OUT, TALK TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, GATHER POTENTIAL STORIES.

IT'S NOT JUST -- IT'S HOW LONG THE STORY WOULD BE, WILL THIS WORK, THEY ARE RUNNING THESE KINDS OF STORIES NOW BECAUSE THERE'S A WAR ON OR FAMINE OR SOMETHING.

YOU'RE HERE.

WHAT CAN I DO THAT WILL BE DIFFERENT ENOUGH FROM WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE THAT IT WILL GIVE THEM BALANCE IN THE PAPER.

IT'S A KIND OF A PSYCHOLOGICAL THING YOU WORK THROUGH.

>> I'M SURE.

>> WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO IS GATHER MATERIAL AND THEN TRYING TO AUTHENTICATE IT SO THERE'S TWO THINGS.

IT'S AN EFFORT TO PULL AS MUCH MATERIAL TO VERIFY WHAT'S HAPPENING AND THEN YOU HAVE TO CONDENSE IT AND ORGANIZE IT.

>> SPEAKING OF THAT, THERE'S THIS OF COURSE ALL THESE ISSUES WITH THE "NEW YORK TIMES" NOW ABOUT ANONYMOUS SOURCES.

>> AH, YES.

>> SO YOU GO OUT, YOU TALK TO PEOPLE.

WHO DO YOU TALK TO?

HOW MANY SOURCES, HOW DO YOU VERIFY, WHAT WERE THE STANDARDS OF VERIFICATION FOR EXAMPLE THAT YOU WOULD MAKE OR AROUND ANONYMOUS SOURCES?

>> WELL, IT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.

IT'S A QUESTION I GET A LOT FROM PEOPLE WHO READ PAPERS.

WHO SOMETIMES DON'T TRUST US.

FIRST LET ME SAY THIS.

FIRST I THINK ANONYMOUS SOURCES ARE VERY OVERWORKED.

THEY ARE NOT NECESSARILY.

YOU NEED SOME SOURCES.

SOME PEOPLE WILL NOT TALK TO YOU UNLESS YOU GO OFF THE RECORD AND AGREE TO PROTECT THEM.

CLAIMING EVERYBODY AS YOUR SOURCE.

ANOTHER LINE I HEAR, NOT ON VPT, THE NETWORKS WILL SAY, ONE PERSON WILL SAY WHAT ARE YOUR SOURCES TELLING YOU ABOUT THIS?

WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T CALL YOUR MOTHER, I MET THE MOST INTERESTING SOURCE TODAY.

[LAUGHTER] YOUR MOM WILL SAY, WAS THIS A SOURCE THAT DECLINED TO BE FURTHER IDENTIFIED?

HE MUST BE FASCINATING.

THESE ARE REAL PEOPLE.

YOU'RE TALKING.

WE ARE AT THE TIMES ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE THE WORD SOURCE IN A STORY.

WE HAVE TO SAY AN OFFICIAL, SOMEBODY CLOSE TO THE CASE, SOMEBODY WHO SAW IT.

WE HAVE TO IDENTIFY THAT PERSON AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

WHAT YOU DO WHEN YOU TALK TO SOMEBODY, YOU TALK TO THEM, THIS IS OFF THE RECORD, YOU CAN TALK THEM UP.

YOU NEGOTIATE THEM UP.

CAN I DESCRIBE YOU AS AN OFFICIAL.

>> YOU NEGOTIATE HOW YOU CAN DESCRIBE THEM.

>> SOMETIMES THEY WILL SAY THIS IS OFF THE RECORD I'LL SAY I DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT.

THE REASON IS YOU CAN'T USE IT SO SOME POLITICIAN WILL SAY, MY OPPONENT BEATS HIS WIFE BUT THAT'S OFF THE RECORD.

YOU CAN'T USE IT.

HE DOESN'T WANT ME TO GET THAT INFORMATION OUT AND I IMMEDIATELY SAY, HOW DO YOU KNOW?

WERE YOU IN THE CLOSET?

YOU CAN NEGOTIATE THESE THINGS AND THAT WORKS.

YOU DON'T NEED TO HAVE ALL THE ANONYMOUS SOURCES.

YOU NEED SOME SOURCES.

THE OTHER IS I THINK THAT IF YOU HAVE AN ANONYMOUS SOURCE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO TELL YOUR EDITOR.

THIS IS WHERE MY COLLEAGUE JUDY MILLER, PROMINENT IN THE NEWS, SHE DIDN'T WANT TO TELL ANYONE WHO HER SOURCES WERE.

I WAS WORKING A STORY WHEN I WAS IN WASHINGTON BEFORE I LEFT THE TIMES.

IT WASN'T ON MY BEAT BUT IT WAS ON SOMETHING ELSE, SOMETHING IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

I TALKED TO A SENIOR OFFICIAL.

I HAD JUST GOTTEN SOMETHING TOTALLY OFF THE WALL.

I SAID I HAVE GOTTEN THIS INFORMATION.

I GOT IT FROM THIS PERSON.

I TOLD THE WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF.

IT'S TOTALLY OFF THE RECORD.

YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND CHASE THAT.

HE SAID GREAT TIP, THEY WENT OUT AND THEY GOT IT.

BUT YOU CAN'T USE IT.

THE OTHER THING I SAY WHEN THEY SAY IS IT A SOURCE, I SAY WHAT HAPPENS IF I GET IT FROM SOMEBODY ELSE?

YOU SAY TELL ME SOMETHING YOU WANT OFF THE RECORD I COULD TALK WITH A DIPLOMAT DOWN THE STREET IN THE NEXT EMBASSY AND HE GIVES IT TO ME THEN I CAN'T USE THE MATERIAL SO I DON'T WANT IT OFF THE MATERIAL.

>> YOU STILL CAN'T GET THE MATERIAL EVEN IF YOU GET IT SUPERSOMEBODY ELSE?

>> HOW DOES HE KNOW?

I TRY NOT TO GO OFF THE RECORD IF I DON'T HAVE TO.

YOU NEED MORE THAN ONE SOURCE, TWO SOURCES, THREE, FOUR SOURCES FR A STORY.

YOU ONLY IN SO FAR AS YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU REALLY HAVE IT.

IF YOU HAVE ONE SOURCE ON A STORY THAT'S REALLY GOOD I TRY TO FIND SOMEBODY ELSE WHO CAN CONFIRM OR DENY IT.

>> NEWSPAPERS CERTAINLY OVER THE LAST DEAID HAVE BEEN PLAGUED BY CUTBACKS AND THE VALUE OF BOTTOM LEAN OVER SOCIAL MISSION, WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THE FUTURE OF THE PRINT MEDIA IN PARTICULAR PERHAPS?

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT'S SHRINKING.

I DON'T THINK IT'S DEAD.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO WANT TO PICK UP THE PAPER.

WHEN I WAS AN EDITOR IN CHARGES OF NEW PROJECTS AT THE TIME, I WAS SENT TO TALK TO MICROSOFT ABOUT COLLABORATING IN NEW AREAS.

THE EXECUTIVE SAID WE'RE NEVER GOING TO REPLACE NEWSPAPERS.

YOU CAN'T TAKE A COMPUTER ON A BUS AND DOWNLOAD IT TO SEE WHAT THE STORY IS ABOUT.

SO THERE'S SOMETHING TACTIC ABOUT PICKING UP A PAPER.

YOU CAN RIP OUT A PORTION OF IT AND SAVE T. HERE'S A RESTAURANT I WANT TO GO TO.

A MOVIE REVIEW I WANT TO SEE.

TEAR THAT OUT.

HERE'S AN EDITORIAL I AGREE WITH.

ON A COMPUTER YOU'RE DOWNLOADING.

THERE IS A PROBLEM BECAUSE YOUNGER PEOPLE ARE NOT READING NEWSPAPERS.

MY GENERATION ARE READING NEWSPAPERS, SO I THINK -- >> ARE NEWSPAPERS COMPROMISING?

>> A LOT OF PAPERS -- THERE'S TWO THINGS HAPPENING.

ONE ARE IS ARE THEY SQUEEZING THE NEWEST CONTENTS IN THE BOTTOM LINE TO IMPROVE THE BOTTOM LINE.

THIS HAS HAPPENED.

THIS HAS BEEN DANGEROUS.

THE "NEW YORK TIMES" IS OWNED BY A FAMILY, AND PEOPLE SAY, PRIVATELY OWNED PAPER.

THEY HAVE STOCK.

IF YOU WORK THERE YOU COLLECT STOCK AND SUCH.

THE STOCK HAS GOT MY KIDS THROUGH COLLEGE.

[LAUGHTER] BUT IT'S NOT THE REASON -- WHAT WAS THE POINT I WAS GOING TO MAKE?

>> IT WAS ABOUT SOCIAL MISSION.

BECAUSE OF THE FAMILY IS IT MORE APT TO -- >> THEY DO NOT FIGHT FOR THE BOTTOM LINE BECAUSE THEY HAVE AN IMAGE.

THIS IS A PAPER THAT WAS BUILT UP TO BE A QUALITY PAPER, SO THE FAMILY IS COMMITTED TO PUTTING MONEY IN STORIES.

I KNOW WHEN I WAS DOWN AT THE TIMES LAST FEBRUARY, "MARCH."

I WAS DOWN FOR A MEETING, THEY WERE SPENDING A LOT OF MONEY IN IRAQ.

IT COST THOUSANDS, MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON THAT.

SO THE PAPER WAS REALLY NOT GOING INTO THE RED BUT THEY WERE LEAKING PROFIT.

THEY STILL INSISTED ON CHASING THE STORY.

YOU GO TO WHERE THE PAPER IS OWNED BY A CONGLOMERATE THEY ARE NOT GOING TO DO THAT.

>> I WANT TO PUSH WALKING TO VERMONT.

YOUR FRIENDS MUST HAVE THOUGHT YOU WERE NUTS.

WHY VERMONT?

>> IT'S A SEXY STATE.

SOMEONE 208D ME IT'S A SMALL POND BUT IT'S A DEEP ONE.

IF I TOLD PEOPLE AT THE TIMES I'M GOING TO WALK TO NEW JERSEY I DON'T THINK ANYONE WOULD PAY ATTENTION BUT I SAID WALK TO VERMONT EVERYBODY SAID, THE EDITOR SAID, THAT'S COOL!

BECAUSE VERMONT IS CONSIDERED COOL.

IT'S A MARVELOUS STATE AND WE MOVED UP HERE.

WE LIVE HERE, SOLD OUR CO-OP IN NEW YORK.

WE LOVE IT HERE.

THERE'S SO MUCH TO DO.

BUT THE PEOPLE ARE SO INTERESTING.

THERE'S REAL DEPTH.

WHEN YOU TALK TO PEOPLE.

>> WHAT'S NEXT?

YOUR RETIREMENT HASN'T BEEN RETIREMENT AT ALL.

YOU'VE BEEN TEACHING ALL OVER THE WORLD.

>> I ENJOY THE WORK TRAINING JOURNALIST IN THE SOVIET UNION.

THEY HAVE A SYSTEM WHERE THERE WAS NEVER ANY CONCEPT OF FREE NEWS.

PROPER INTERVIEW BEING JOURNALIST TECHNIQUES.

I WOULD SAY, THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW TO BE A JOURNALIST.

>> UNFORTUNATELY WE'RE OUT OF TIME.

>> GOOD.

>> THANKS, CHRISTOPHER WREN, SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON "PROFILE."