- We've got another great show coming up for you on "American Black Journal."

Our "Black Church in Detroit" Series explores the historical significance of the city's churches.

We're gonna talk about how the Black Church helped enslaved people escape to freedom, created educational opportunities for African-American children, and served as a center for social activism.

You don't wanna miss today's episode.

"American Black Journal" starts right now.

- [Narrator] From Delta faucets to Behr Paint.

Masco Corporation is proud to deliver products that enhance the way consumers all over the world experience and enjoy their living spaces.

Masco, serving Michigan communities since 1929.

Support also provided by the Cynthia & Edsel Ford Fund for Journalism at Detroit Public TV.

- [Narrator 2] The DTE Foundation proudly supports 50 years of "American Black Journal" in covering African-American history, culture, and politics.

The DTE Foundation and "American Black Journal" partners in presenting African-American perspectives about our communities and in our world.

- [Narrator] Also brought to you by Nissan Foundation and viewers like you.

Thank you.

(bright music) - Welcome to "American Black Journal."

I'm your host, Stephen Henderson.

Today we're continuing our series on "The Black Church in Detroit," which is produced in partnership with the Ecumenical Theological Seminary and with the Charles H. Wright Museum of African-American History.

As we close out Black History Month, we're taking a look at the legacy of some of Detroit's Black churches from serving as stationed on the Underground Railroad to hosting civil rights leaders and community organizers.

Detroit Churches have played a major role in Black history.

I learned more about that history from Reverend Lawrence Rodgers of Second Baptist Church, and Dr. Richard Smith, a retired vice president at Henry Ford Hospital and longtime member of St. Matthews and St. Joseph's Episcopal Church.

I first want to say that I'm really excited for this conversation because I think this is such an important part of who we are as Detroiters, the history of these two churches in particular but, of course, of the city more generally, the key role it has played in Black history in this country.

And I think of these two churches really as kind of ground zero for that story, for that narrative.

So I'm really looking forward to what we'll be able to talk about.

I wanna start with each of you telling just a little of the history of the way these churches started and the role that they played in the Underground Railroad which I think lots of folks know generally about but they don't know how pivotal, how critical these two churches were to this spot on the Underground Railroad.

So, Reverend Rodgers, I will start with you.

- Yes.

My name is Reverend Lawrence W. Rodgers and I'm the 24th pastor of the Historic Second Baptist Church of Detroit located at 441 Monroe Street, Downtown Detroit.

And the congregation was established in 1836.

It is the oldest Black church in the Midwest and the definitely the oldest Black congregation in the state of Michigan.

The church itself predates the establishment of Michigan by one year.

So Michigan filed this charter to become a state a year after Second Baptists gathered together as a congregation.

From the very onset of the congregation, the congregation took a activist approach in dealing with the issue of enslavement in America particularly when the Fugitive Slave Act came into effect which meant that the state of Michigan was no longer a safe place for formerly enslaved people to live.

There was a fine that included prison time or even $1,000 worth of fine.

So you could be in prison and have to be fined for $1,000 which even in today's standards is a great deal of money.

But if you consider 1850, it is a whole lot more money than what it is today.

Second Baptist freed some 5,000 formerly enslaved people.

We did it in two ways.

So we would hide people in our basement and then we would smuggle them in a wagon with a false bottom to the Detroit River.

And one of our members, his name was George DeBaptiste, he owned a steamboat, and we would put them in the steamboat and help them to cross the Detroit River.

Second Baptist is rather close to the Detroit River, and so it's walking distance.

I see the Detroit River, you know, every day on my drive to the office.

So it's walking distance from the congregation.

And so Second was deeply involved.

If you got to Second Baptist, you knew you were almost, almost free.

You knew you were almost in Canaan Land which was a code word for Canada and the Underground Railroad.

And famous conductors visited Second Baptist individuals such as Frederick Douglass and Frederick Douglass also one time brought his friend John Brown before he went on his revolutionary journey.

Second Baptist had a deep history of helping formerly enslaved people find their way to freedom.

- Yeah.

And for viewers who haven't been to Second Baptist to see what's still there, it is an amazing experience to go into the basement and see the places that these formerly enslaved people had to live while they waited to be carried across the river to Canada.

It's something I feel like everybody in our community should experience at some point.

- Amen.

- Dr. Smith, I wanna get to you and talk about St. Matthews.

What a wonderful presentation about the history of Detroit and what the Detroiters have actually thought to change the complexion of the country in the beginning, all the way back then before we were even a state, in fact, before Harriet Tubman there was these churches, before the writing of Uncle Tom's Cabin, before Abraham Lincoln with the Congress.

There was a St. Matthews Episcopal Church, Second Baptist Church, in Bethel AME churches helping these fugitive slaves cross Detroit River for freedom on there.

There was a time capsule when one of our three churches we had a church down on Congress in St. Antoine by the Blue Cross building.

Our first one in 1850.

Our second one was up in Paradise Valley where the Ford Field is, and the third was up on Woodward Avenue.

Well, when they tore down our second church to build Ford Field, they found a time capsule.

They unearthed that time capsule and told us all of this more deeply hidden information before it was represented there.

And there was something that said nowhere in this country among the colored group of Americans were there more upstanding, courageous, intelligent, high class of men and women who pioneered the city of Detroit from the year 1830 to the time of the Rebellion and Civil War.

They're talking about St. Matthews in 1846, Bethel Way in 1839, and, of course, Second Baptist.

Many of these people we talk about came from Pittsburgh, Virginia, as well as Richmond.

William Lambert came from New Jersey and William Monroe came from New England.

Those are the key names we know about.

They were the leaders of the Underground Railroad who helped more than 40,000 men, women and children get to Canada.

That's enough people to fill Comerica Park.

- Right.

- Now, my grandfather's grandfather's among those people who came here.

I'm from the old Detroit families.

So like most old Detroit families, we have Canadian cousins we would like to say.

But that kind of sparked my interest in a lot of these things.

But the key people we want to talk about are Reverend William Monroe, as well as William Lambert.

Now, they started, they were first over at Second Baptist but beginning in 1845, as the city began to grow, there were other interests and they left Second Baptist in 1845 and they established St. Matthews Church.

What happened there was a more than 15-year period of intense abolitionist activity, religious activity, and political activity by the men and women of St. Matthews Episcopal Church.

It was a church that was hidden in plain sight.

In plain sight, the public people knew about Second Baptist and that's where the slave catchers would wait outside.

But St. Matthews was sitting in plain sight, and it had the support of all those Free Soilers who would eventually form the Republican Party and change the country and elect Abraham Lincoln.

For example, we think about that old Detroit period there was only about five, 600 African-Americans.

And there was kind of the first piety hill in those bluffs above the Detroit River.

You had Christ Church there as well as St. Peter's and St. Paul's Catholic church.

One block over was St. Matthews, a block from that was another Catholic church, St. Mary's in Greektown.

To the right on Hastings you had the AME church, and to the left a block over you had, of course, Second Baptist.

This was the central business community of the African-American folks up along Congress Avenue there.

That's where it happened.

And right there on Congress Avenue, there were parishioners of St. Matthews.

We just talked about that.

William Webb and Dr. Joseph Ferguson who met in what I would like to call the room where it really happened.

- And the room where it happened is where Frederick Douglass sat down with John Brown who sat down with Reverend William Monroe who sat down there and had a discussion.

John Brown would go to Chatham and start the Chatham Convention.

But you had Frederick Douglass say, "Hey, I gotta talk over at Second Baptist.

But then I'm back to New England."

(Stephen laughing) That's a little bit of the first background of the first decade- - Yeah.

- Or so of the abolitionist movement here in Detroit.

- Reverend Rodgers, I want to talk to you just a little about what this means, this history, and talk also a little about the time between before the Civil War and now that history continues, right?

The history of playing this really critical role in Black liberation not just in Detroit, but everywhere.

And so now you in 2023 are leading this congregation.

Talk about how all of that informs your work and influences the people who still attend church there.

- Yeah.

Amen.

I really do appreciate you, you know, elevating this question.

I'm reminded of a scripture from Romans 15 that says that the things that were written aforetime were written for our learning.

And I'm also reminded of a quote from El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz, who once said that history is the greatest to reward our efforts.

I believe that it is critical for us to not, when we look at our history, to not look at the history from the approach of, you know, that's interesting facts, but to look at the history in a way that will pour into us our activities today, our actions today, and be motivated with the spirit that were in our ancestors.

And for me Second Baptist Church of Detroit is a congregation that from its inception has been committed to a liberation.

Every Black freedom struggle that African-American's face, Second Baptist has been a part of it, from enslavement to struggling for labor rights.

One of our previous pastors, Reverend Bradby, developed a relationship with Henry Ford and leveraged Henry Ford to hire Black Americans which essentially sparked the great migration of Black Americans traveling from southern states such as Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, and others to Detroit for jobs in the automotive industry.

Later on one of our former pastors, Reverend Banks, had a relationship with Reverend Dr. King Sr. And, therefore, a relationship with Reverend Dr. King Jr. And Reverend Dr. King wanted to start his ministry to struggle for the full citizenship of Black Americans, he came to Second Baptist to not only preach but to fundraise for the Montgomery Bus Boycott.

And Dr. King said himself that no other congregation had raised more money for the Montgomery bus boycott than Second Baptist Church of Detroit.

And then we've been a part of other freedom struggles including against mass incarceration and benevolence for reentry citizens, and so on and so forth.

So, to me, being here at 2023, I feel that, you know, while we've made progress as a people and I'm grateful for it, I think the battle is not yet won.

I still think that there are rivers to cross.

There are still stoney roads for us to travel.

And I believe that Second Baptist is poised and we are in the work, and we are continuing that work of liberation.

In fact, at Second Baptist we have had various things I think are rather innovative and needed, such as a youth financial literacy program where we take young people and we teach them about financial literacy.

We also bring in young entrepreneurs, children who have businesses, and the children talk to other children about how they start their business, how they market their business, and how they sell their products.

We have a youth STEM program at Second where young people come in, they come in with nothing in their hands, every last one of them.

And they leave with a robot that they put together where they learn basic skills such as engineering and, you know, basic engineering skills and coding and, you know, fun STEM things.

So to me, that is a part of a liberator's work because in the future, you know, many of the manufacturing jobs that Detroiters have depended on might not be available.

But what will be available are jobs in fields such as cybersecurity, coding, automation.

And I don't want to see our community left out of those fields in an emerging economy.

Also, here at Second Baptist we have a human trafficking awareness program across America, including Detroit.

Human trafficking is something that disproportionately affects African-American- - Yes.

- African-American populations particularly African-American women, African-American girls disproportionately go missing and are being trafficked.

And so we have a training program where we teach the community and our members and parents how to spot trafficking, how to protect young people from trafficking, how to help a person to get out of a trafficking situation which is a form of enslavement, and to help a person to transition from being trafficked to freedom from those oppressors is a liberation work.

- Yes.

- And so the spirit of liberation still resides at Second Baptist, is still motivating us.

We are constantly building up the ministries that we have but also putting our minds together to develop new ministries where we can continue to set our mind on setting captives free.

- Yes.

Yeah.

- That's why Second Baptist has been so important to our community here.

And I'd like to go all the way back and kind of bring you up to the future here.

We talked about those Virginians, you know, when they came up here, they came up here to start education programs.

You know, they were masons, artisans, barbers, businessmen and a physician as well who did all those things.

William Monroe specifically was an educator.

He was our first educator, sought funds from the state to create the first churches in both Second Baptists and our AME Church.

But then he taught for free at St. Matthews because there was fighting over the money.

And so he taught for free there.

And he said, the education of our children is paramount to survival of our race.

And that continued all the way through.

And we go through to immediately after the Civil War, 1870, there was a big, big, big big celebration about the passage of the 15th Amendment which allowed African-Americans to vote.

On that big celebration there were nearly 2000 people.

On the dais was, of course, George DeBaptiste, the Second Baptist, but also a poet from the AME church there who came in from Canada and from Chatham who did that.

And then you had St. Matthew's William Lambert the community coming together to celebrate this big act and move us forward.

The Governor Baldwin, you had the Senator Zachariah Chandler all parts of this Underground Railroad movement.

One important part about that I would also say William Lambert, he raised $120,000 probably from those abolitionists.

- Right.

- Which would equate to $10 million to fund the movement that took place.

But the women during that time, they took care of the sick, they took care of the bandages, they fed them, they clothed them, and they went on.

This was a pattern that continued into the Great Migration.

Into the Great migration when St. Matthews had its second church.

It was a formidable force because it drew on that spirit of education and service and commitment.

This is why outer sect St. Matthews, during that time you had the founding of the NAACP at St. Matthew's by Reverend Bagnall and it grew to be the largest in the country.

And it still is because of the actions of our rector at that time.

The founders of the Urban League, St. Matthews, the Literary Society at St. Matthews.

You had down there, the women's group the Dorcas Society, helping those who came to Detroit from the South.

You had the original willing workers, one of the oldest African-American groups in the country existing at that time.

And they would continue on when the healthcare needs became imminent in this with all these new citizens, they funded and helped support the building of the first Black hospital, the Dunbar Hospital by Reverend Dr. Bundy, by Alexander Turner and Dr. Ames who were there.

It as a city continued to grow.

It provided to be the central key place for all these enrichment activities that took place.

And something that we now call Paradise Valley but was really started by St. Matthews, later by the Thurman WCA and also the Sojourner Truth homes.

So these things would continue as some of the leadership.

The initial contact with Henry Ford was Reverend Bagnall and then he turned that over to Everett as well as Bradby who all worked together to ensure jobs just in one thing.

It was the education, it was jobs, it was the opportunity.

- Yeah.

- And you know what happened after all those people started coming up to the South?

They needed a place to stay.

- They needed to still live somewhere, right.

- It is somewhere.

And then this oasis occurred, this oasis called the west side of Detroit.

And this oasis on the west side, you had people who wanted education.

They wanted commitment and community and out of this, it was never a ghetto.

It was an area where people worked primarily for Ford who would only hire, the only person who would hire Blacks but also spurred the development in sequence of St. Stephen's AME.

- Yeah.

- One block over you had Hartford Avenue Baptist Church, one block over from that St. Sitrium.

There was a little group in between called the Nacirema Business Club that existed through there.

But then we continue on to Tabernacle, down to Beachwood and all these churches would emerge to be a strength in the city of Detroit.

And out of the, what do you get?

You have an Honorable Willis Ward a University of Michigan person.

What do you have?

You have the professor and dean of Yale and Lloyd Richards.

You have Malcolm Dade, you have the Albert Hartford Avenue.

You have professors such as Professor Dillard coming out of that group.

You have brilliant people.

And they continue to do so even to this day in the Detroit community, because of the efforts of the Detroit churches, not just one, not just a couple, but all the Detroit communities that we have right now.

- Yeah.

- Reverend Albert Clay came out- - Yeah.

- Of that same sort of venue that came through there.

So we have a rich and powerful force.

- Yeah.

- When we look towards the future now, we have in our future coming out of our Detroit churches we have people like (faintly speaking) and Derrick Groman.

We have business men like Ron Hall.

We have authors and playwrights such as Dominique Morisseau.

We have all these talented people coming out of the church community within Detroit.

That's the influence of the church community starting with the Second Baptist and in 1835- - Yeah.

- Going to St. Matthew's, going to the AME Church.

- Right.

- And they continue to grow and thrive and help our children in all sorts of different ways today.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

We've only got a minute left, Dr. Smith, but I wonder if you can talk just briefly that wonderful thread of families over time and their connection to the church and what they get from being part of that community.

You just named a lot of people.

You're also part of a family that was in that community for generations.

- Yes.

Well, my family came obviously from Fredericksburg.

They were the first deacons over at Second Baptist and I didn't let you know about that part.

(Stephen laughing) They're also there and they were striving and working together with a strong commitment for education in the community.

I think that's where the transfer of information, they help one another.

Each one helped one.

We still hear that talked about today.

And that's something along the key thing has been education at the turn of the century when St. Matthews came and we became blossoming.

We were a part of that movement as well.

It's the same source of strength.

It's a source of scripture, it's a source of spiritualism as well and an opportunity to learn that there's more to this great world than we see.

- Yeah.

- One of our first members Reverend Theodore Holly not only help write the "Voice of the Fugitive" but would go on and be the first Episcopal bishop in the United States.

I mean, it's all this wonderful history which was interlinked there.

That's what is meant to be.

- Okay.

Reverend Rodgers and Dr. Smith, it was really, really great to have both of you and all of the unbelievable knowledge you have of this history here on "American Black Journal."

Thanks so much for joining us.

What a great way to end Black History Month.

- [Guest] Thank you.

- That is gonna do it for us this week.

You can find out more about today's guests and view all of "The Black Church in Detroit" episodes at americanblackjournal.org.

Plus you can connect with us anytime on Facebook and on Twitter.

We'll see you next time.

(bright music) - [Narrator 1] From Delta Faucets to Behr Paint, Masco Corporation is proud to deliver products that enhance the way consumers all over the world experience and enjoy their living spaces.

Masco, serving Michigan communities since 1929.

Support also provided by the Cynthia Edsel Ford Fund for Journalism at Detroit Public TV.

- [Narrator 2] The DTE Foundation proudly supports 50 years of American Black Journal in covering African-American history, culture, and politics.

The DTE Foundation and American Black Journal partners in presenting African-American perspectives about our communities and in our world.

- [Narrator 1] Also brought to you by Nissan Foundation and viewers like you.

Thank you.

(upbeat jingle) - We've got another great show coming up for you on "American Black Journal."

Our "Black Church in Detroit" Series explores the historical significance of the city's churches.

We're gonna talk about how the Black Church helped enslaved people escape to freedom, created educational opportunities for African-American children, and served as a center for social activism.

You don't wanna miss today's episode.

"American Black Journal" starts right now.

- [Narrator] From Delta faucets to Behr Paint.

Masco Corporation is proud to deliver products that enhance the way consumers all over the world experience and enjoy their living spaces.

Masco, serving Michigan communities since 1929.

Support also provided by the Cynthia & Edsel Ford Fund for Journalism at Detroit Public TV.

- [Narrator 2] The DTE Foundation proudly supports 50 years of "American Black Journal" in covering African-American history, culture, and politics.

The DTE Foundation and "American Black Journal" partners in presenting African-American perspectives about our communities and in our world.

- [Narrator] Also brought to you by Nissan Foundation and viewers like you.

Thank you.

(bright music) - Welcome to "American Black Journal."

I'm your host, Stephen Henderson.

Today we're continuing our series on "The Black Church in Detroit," which is produced in partnership with the Ecumenical Theological Seminary and with the Charles H. Wright Museum of African-American History.

As we close out Black History Month, we're taking a look at the legacy of some of Detroit's Black churches from serving as stationed on the Underground Railroad to hosting civil rights leaders and community organizers.

Detroit Churches have played a major role in Black history.

I learned more about that history from Reverend Lawrence Rodgers of Second Baptist Church, and Dr. Richard Smith, a retired vice president at Henry Ford Hospital and longtime member of St. Matthews and St. Joseph's Episcopal Church.

I first want to say that I'm really excited for this conversation because I think this is such an important part of who we are as Detroiters, the history of these two churches in particular but, of course, of the city more generally, the key role it has played in Black history in this country.

And I think of these two churches really as kind of ground zero for that story, for that narrative.

So I'm really looking forward to what we'll be able to talk about.

I wanna start with each of you telling just a little of the history of the way these churches started and the role that they played in the Underground Railroad which I think lots of folks know generally about but they don't know how pivotal, how critical these two churches were to this spot on the Underground Railroad.

So, Reverend Rodgers, I will start with you.

- Yes.

My name is Reverend Lawrence W. Rodgers and I'm the 24th pastor of the Historic Second Baptist Church of Detroit located at 441 Monroe Street, Downtown Detroit.

And the congregation was established in 1836.

It is the oldest Black church in the Midwest and the definitely the oldest Black congregation in the state of Michigan.

The church itself predates the establishment of Michigan by one year.

So Michigan filed this charter to become a state a year after Second Baptists gathered together as a congregation.

From the very onset of the congregation, the congregation took a activist approach in dealing with the issue of enslavement in America particularly when the Fugitive Slave Act came into effect which meant that the state of Michigan was no longer a safe place for formerly enslaved people to live.

There was a fine that included prison time or even $1,000 worth of fine.

So you could be in prison and have to be fined for $1,000 which even in today's standards is a great deal of money.

But if you consider 1850, it is a whole lot more money than what it is today.

Second Baptist freed some 5,000 formerly enslaved people.

We did it in two ways.

So we would hide people in our basement and then we would smuggle them in a wagon with a false bottom to the Detroit River.

And one of our members, his name was George DeBaptiste, he owned a steamboat, and we would put them in the steamboat and help them to cross the Detroit River.

Second Baptist is rather close to the Detroit River, and so it's walking distance.

I see the Detroit River, you know, every day on my drive to the office.

So it's walking distance from the congregation.

And so Second was deeply involved.

If you got to Second Baptist, you knew you were almost, almost free.

You knew you were almost in Canaan Land which was a code word for Canada and the Underground Railroad.

And famous conductors visited Second Baptist individuals such as Frederick Douglass and Frederick Douglass also one time brought his friend John Brown before he went on his revolutionary journey.

Second Baptist had a deep history of helping formerly enslaved people find their way to freedom.

- Yeah.

And for viewers who haven't been to Second Baptist to see what's still there, it is an amazing experience to go into the basement and see the places that these formerly enslaved people had to live while they waited to be carried across the river to Canada.

It's something I feel like everybody in our community should experience at some point.

- Amen.

- Dr. Smith, I wanna get to you and talk about St. Matthews.

What a wonderful presentation about the history of Detroit and what the Detroiters have actually thought to change the complexion of the country in the beginning, all the way back then before we were even a state, in fact, before Harriet Tubman there was these churches, before the writing of Uncle Tom's Cabin, before Abraham Lincoln with the Congress.

There was a St. Matthews Episcopal Church, Second Baptist Church, in Bethel AME churches helping these fugitive slaves cross Detroit River for freedom on there.

There was a time capsule when one of our three churches we had a church down on Congress in St. Antoine by the Blue Cross building.

Our first one in 1850.

Our second one was up in Paradise Valley where the Ford Field is, and the third was up on Woodward Avenue.

Well, when they tore down our second church to build Ford Field, they found a time capsule.

They unearthed that time capsule and told us all of this more deeply hidden information before it was represented there.

And there was something that said nowhere in this country among the colored group of Americans were there more upstanding, courageous, intelligent, high class of men and women who pioneered the city of Detroit from the year 1830 to the time of the Rebellion and Civil War.

They're talking about St. Matthews in 1846, Bethel Way in 1839, and, of course, Second Baptist.

Many of these people we talk about came from Pittsburgh, Virginia, as well as Richmond.

William Lambert came from New Jersey and William Monroe came from New England.

Those are the key names we know about.

They were the leaders of the Underground Railroad who helped more than 40,000 men, women and children get to Canada.

That's enough people to fill Comerica Park.

- Right.

- Now, my grandfather's grandfather's among those people who came here.

I'm from the old Detroit families.

So like most old Detroit families, we have Canadian cousins we would like to say.

But that kind of sparked my interest in a lot of these things.

But the key people we want to talk about are Reverend William Monroe, as well as William Lambert.

Now, they started, they were first over at Second Baptist but beginning in 1845, as the city began to grow, there were other interests and they left Second Baptist in 1845 and they established St. Matthews Church.

What happened there was a more than 15-year period of intense abolitionist activity, religious activity, and political activity by the men and women of St. Matthews Episcopal Church.

It was a church that was hidden in plain sight.

In plain sight, the public people knew about Second Baptist and that's where the slave catchers would wait outside.

But St. Matthews was sitting in plain sight, and it had the support of all those Free Soilers who would eventually form the Republican Party and change the country and elect Abraham Lincoln.

For example, we think about that old Detroit period there was only about five, 600 African-Americans.

And there was kind of the first piety hill in those bluffs above the Detroit River.

You had Christ Church there as well as St. Peter's and St. Paul's Catholic church.

One block over was St. Matthews, a block from that was another Catholic church, St. Mary's in Greektown.

To the right on Hastings you had the AME church, and to the left a block over you had, of course, Second Baptist.

This was the central business community of the African-American folks up along Congress Avenue there.

That's where it happened.

And right there on Congress Avenue, there were parishioners of St. Matthews.

We just talked about that.

William Webb and Dr. Joseph Ferguson who met in what I would like to call the room where it really happened.

- And the room where it happened is where Frederick Douglass sat down with John Brown who sat down with Reverend William Monroe who sat down there and had a discussion.

John Brown would go to Chatham and start the Chatham Convention.

But you had Frederick Douglass say, "Hey, I gotta talk over at Second Baptist.

But then I'm back to New England."

(Stephen laughing) That's a little bit of the first background of the first decade- - Yeah.

- Or so of the abolitionist movement here in Detroit.

- Reverend Rodgers, I want to talk to you just a little about what this means, this history, and talk also a little about the time between before the Civil War and now that history continues, right?

The history of playing this really critical role in Black liberation not just in Detroit, but everywhere.

And so now you in 2023 are leading this congregation.

Talk about how all of that informs your work and influences the people who still attend church there.

- Yeah.

Amen.

I really do appreciate you, you know, elevating this question.

I'm reminded of a scripture from Romans 15 that says that the things that were written aforetime were written for our learning.

And I'm also reminded of a quote from El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz, who once said that history is the greatest to reward our efforts.

I believe that it is critical for us to not, when we look at our history, to not look at the history from the approach of, you know, that's interesting facts, but to look at the history in a way that will pour into us our activities today, our actions today, and be motivated with the spirit that were in our ancestors.

And for me Second Baptist Church of Detroit is a congregation that from its inception has been committed to a liberation.

Every Black freedom struggle that African-American's face, Second Baptist has been a part of it, from enslavement to struggling for labor rights.

One of our previous pastors, Reverend Bradby, developed a relationship with Henry Ford and leveraged Henry Ford to hire Black Americans which essentially sparked the great migration of Black Americans traveling from southern states such as Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, and others to Detroit for jobs in the automotive industry.

Later on one of our former pastors, Reverend Banks, had a relationship with Reverend Dr. King Sr. And, therefore, a relationship with Reverend Dr. King Jr. And Reverend Dr. King wanted to start his ministry to struggle for the full citizenship of Black Americans, he came to Second Baptist to not only preach but to fundraise for the Montgomery Bus Boycott.

And Dr. King said himself that no other congregation had raised more money for the Montgomery bus boycott than Second Baptist Church of Detroit.

And then we've been a part of other freedom struggles including against mass incarceration and benevolence for reentry citizens, and so on and so forth.

So, to me, being here at 2023, I feel that, you know, while we've made progress as a people and I'm grateful for it, I think the battle is not yet won.

I still think that there are rivers to cross.

There are still stoney roads for us to travel.

And I believe that Second Baptist is poised and we are in the work, and we are continuing that work of liberation.

In fact, at Second Baptist we have had various things I think are rather innovative and needed, such as a youth financial literacy program where we take young people and we teach them about financial literacy.

We also bring in young entrepreneurs, children who have businesses, and the children talk to other children about how they start their business, how they market their business, and how they sell their products.

We have a youth STEM program at Second where young people come in, they come in with nothing in their hands, every last one of them.

And they leave with a robot that they put together where they learn basic skills such as engineering and, you know, basic engineering skills and coding and, you know, fun STEM things.

So to me, that is a part of a liberator's work because in the future, you know, many of the manufacturing jobs that Detroiters have depended on might not be available.

But what will be available are jobs in fields such as cybersecurity, coding, automation.

And I don't want to see our community left out of those fields in an emerging economy.

Also, here at Second Baptist we have a human trafficking awareness program across America, including Detroit.

Human trafficking is something that disproportionately affects African-American- - Yes.

- African-American populations particularly African-American women, African-American girls disproportionately go missing and are being trafficked.

And so we have a training program where we teach the community and our members and parents how to spot trafficking, how to protect young people from trafficking, how to help a person to get out of a trafficking situation which is a form of enslavement, and to help a person to transition from being trafficked to freedom from those oppressors is a liberation work.

- Yes.

- And so the spirit of liberation still resides at Second Baptist, is still motivating us.

We are constantly building up the ministries that we have but also putting our minds together to develop new ministries where we can continue to set our mind on setting captives free.

- Yes.

Yeah.

- That's why Second Baptist has been so important to our community here.

And I'd like to go all the way back and kind of bring you up to the future here.

We talked about those Virginians, you know, when they came up here, they came up here to start education programs.

You know, they were masons, artisans, barbers, businessmen and a physician as well who did all those things.

William Monroe specifically was an educator.

He was our first educator, sought funds from the state to create the first churches in both Second Baptists and our AME Church.

But then he taught for free at St. Matthews because there was fighting over the money.

And so he taught for free there.

And he said, the education of our children is paramount to survival of our race.

And that continued all the way through.

And we go through to immediately after the Civil War, 1870, there was a big, big, big big celebration about the passage of the 15th Amendment which allowed African-Americans to vote.

On that big celebration there were nearly 2000 people.

On the dais was, of course, George DeBaptiste, the Second Baptist, but also a poet from the AME church there who came in from Canada and from Chatham who did that.

And then you had St. Matthew's William Lambert the community coming together to celebrate this big act and move us forward.

The Governor Baldwin, you had the Senator Zachariah Chandler all parts of this Underground Railroad movement.

One important part about that I would also say William Lambert, he raised $120,000 probably from those abolitionists.

- Right.

- Which would equate to $10 million to fund the movement that took place.

But the women during that time, they took care of the sick, they took care of the bandages, they fed them, they clothed them, and they went on.

This was a pattern that continued into the Great Migration.

Into the Great migration when St. Matthews had its second church.

It was a formidable force because it drew on that spirit of education and service and commitment.

This is why outer sect St. Matthews, during that time you had the founding of the NAACP at St. Matthew's by Reverend Bagnall and it grew to be the largest in the country.

And it still is because of the actions of our rector at that time.

The founders of the Urban League, St. Matthews, the Literary Society at St. Matthews.

You had down there, the women's group the Dorcas Society, helping those who came to Detroit from the South.

You had the original willing workers, one of the oldest African-American groups in the country existing at that time.

And they would continue on when the healthcare needs became imminent in this with all these new citizens, they funded and helped support the building of the first Black hospital, the Dunbar Hospital by Reverend Dr. Bundy, by Alexander Turner and Dr. Ames who were there.

It as a city continued to grow.

It provided to be the central key place for all these enrichment activities that took place.

And something that we now call Paradise Valley but was really started by St. Matthews, later by the Thurman WCA and also the Sojourner Truth homes.

So these things would continue as some of the leadership.

The initial contact with Henry Ford was Reverend Bagnall and then he turned that over to Everett as well as Bradby who all worked together to ensure jobs just in one thing.

It was the education, it was jobs, it was the opportunity.

- Yeah.

- And you know what happened after all those people started coming up to the South?

They needed a place to stay.

- They needed to still live somewhere, right.

- It is somewhere.

And then this oasis occurred, this oasis called the west side of Detroit.

And this oasis on the west side, you had people who wanted education.

They wanted commitment and community and out of this, it was never a ghetto.

It was an area where people worked primarily for Ford who would only hire, the only person who would hire Blacks but also spurred the development in sequence of St. Stephen's AME.

- Yeah.

- One block over you had Hartford Avenue Baptist Church, one block over from that St. Sitrium.

There was a little group in between called the Nacirema Business Club that existed through there.

But then we continue on to Tabernacle, down to Beachwood and all these churches would emerge to be a strength in the city of Detroit.

And out of the, what do you get?

You have an Honorable Willis Ward a University of Michigan person.

What do you have?

You have the professor and dean of Yale and Lloyd Richards.

You have Malcolm Dade, you have the Albert Hartford Avenue.

You have professors such as Professor Dillard coming out of that group.

You have brilliant people.

And they continue to do so even to this day in the Detroit community, because of the efforts of the Detroit churches, not just one, not just a couple, but all the Detroit communities that we have right now.

- Yeah.

- Reverend Albert Clay came out- - Yeah.

- Of that same sort of venue that came through there.

So we have a rich and powerful force.

- Yeah.

- When we look towards the future now, we have in our future coming out of our Detroit churches we have people like (faintly speaking) and Derrick Groman.

We have business men like Ron Hall.

We have authors and playwrights such as Dominique Morisseau.

We have all these talented people coming out of the church community within Detroit.

That's the influence of the church community starting with the Second Baptist and in 1835- - Yeah.

- Going to St. Matthew's, going to the AME Church.

- Right.

- And they continue to grow and thrive and help our children in all sorts of different ways today.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

We've only got a minute left, Dr. Smith, but I wonder if you can talk just briefly that wonderful thread of families over time and their connection to the church and what they get from being part of that community.

You just named a lot of people.

You're also part of a family that was in that community for generations.

- Yes.

Well, my family came obviously from Fredericksburg.

They were the first deacons over at Second Baptist and I didn't let you know about that part.

(Stephen laughing) They're also there and they were striving and working together with a strong commitment for education in the community.

I think that's where the transfer of information, they help one another.

Each one helped one.

We still hear that talked about today.

And that's something along the key thing has been education at the turn of the century when St. Matthews came and we became blossoming.

We were a part of that movement as well.

It's the same source of strength.

It's a source of scripture, it's a source of spiritualism as well and an opportunity to learn that there's more to this great world than we see.

- Yeah.

- One of our first members Reverend Theodore Holly not only help write the "Voice of the Fugitive" but would go on and be the first Episcopal bishop in the United States.

I mean, it's all this wonderful history which was interlinked there.

That's what is meant to be.

- Okay.

Reverend Rodgers and Dr. Smith, it was really, really great to have both of you and all of the unbelievable knowledge you have of this history here on "American Black Journal."

Thanks so much for joining us.

What a great way to end Black History Month.

- [Guest] Thank you.

- That is gonna do it for us this week.

You can find out more about today's guests and view all of "The Black Church in Detroit" episodes at americanblackjournal.org.

Plus you can connect with us anytime on Facebook and on Twitter.

We'll see you next time.

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