>> RELIGION, MORALITY AND THE WAR - SOUNDS LIKE A BOOK TITLE, BUT ACTUALLY IT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT TONIGHT - ON IVORY TOWER.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M BARBARA FOUGHT FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

JOINING ME TONIGHT ON THE PANEL ARE: SARA PRALLE, FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY,NINA MOORE, FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY,TY SEIDULE, FROM HAMILTON COLLEGE, AND BEN BAUGHMAN, FROM GANNON UNIVERSITY LET'S BEGIN WITH A CHURCH-AND-STATE ISSUE THAT'S SURFACING IN SYRACUSE.

CAN RELIGIOUS GROUPS USE SCHOOL FACILITIES FOR WORSHIP?

A CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN GROUP HAS BEEN HOLDING WORSHIP SERVICES AT NOTTINGHAM HIGH SCHOOL ON SUNDAYS.

THE GROUP DOESN'T SUPPORT LGTBQ RIGHTS OR GAY MARRIAGE AND PEOPLE HAVE COMPLAINED TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT ABOUT THIS BEING A NEGATIVE EXAMPLE FOR STUDENTS.

BUT NINA I'M WONDERING, IS THIS A VIOLATION OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT TO NOT HAVE A CHURCH?

>> I THINK IT REALLY DEPENDS, AND CERTAINLY ULTIMATELY IT'S GOING TO BE THE SUPREME COURT THAT DECIDES WHETHER OR NOT IT IS.

PART OF THE ISSUE THAT I THINK THE COURT WILL TAKE UP IS WHETHER AN EXPRESSION OF RELIGIOUS VIEWS, WHETHER ORGANIZING AROUND RELIGIOUS AGENDAS IS THE SAME AS HOLDING A CHURCH SERVICE, WHICH IS WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE IN THE SCHOOL.

AND I THINK EVEN THERE THERE WILL BE A QUESTION AS TO WHAT CONSTITUTES A CHURCH SERVICE.

SETTING ASIDE THE LEGAL ISSUE, WHICH THE SECOND CIRCUIT HAS RESOLVED IN A WAY THAT SAYS THIS IS DIFFERENT.

THAT A CHURCH SERVICE ISN'T THE SAME AS EXPRESSION.

BUT SETTING ASIDE THAT, I THINK A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS ARE GOING ON HERE, AND THAT IS REALLY THE MATTER OF PRINCIPLE.

IF ONE IS A CHRISTIAN, THIS IS A CHRISTIAN CHURCH.

ONE LIKELY SUPPORTS IT AT SOME LEVEL.

BUT LET'S SAY THAT YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN AND THEN THERE IS ALSO A RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION THAT WOULD OFFER ANTI-CHRISTIAN VIEWS, WOULD YOU STILL BE OKAY WITH THAT?

I THINK THIRDLY, THERE IS THE POLITICAL ISSUE.

FOR ME, I FIND IT DIFFICULT TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PROMOTING WHAT THIS CHURCH DOES, WHICH IS ANTI-LGBTQ RIGHTS AND FINDING GAYS-- OR JUST BEING GAY AS SIN.

I DON'T SEE MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND ANTI-SEMITISM AND THE IDEA THAT BLACKS SHOULD STILL BE SERVANT SLAVES, BECAUSE MANY READ THE BIBLE TO SAY THAT.

AND THEN FINALLY, THAT WOMEN SHOULD BE RELEGATED TO ROLES THAT WOMEN HAVE BEEN FREED FROM.

AND IT'S NOT A STRETCH TO WORRY ABOUT THAT BECAUSE JUST THIS WEEK, THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION, WHICH IS ONE OF THE LARGEST CHRISTIAN PROTESTANT ORGANIZATIONS EXPEL CHURCH WITH WOMEN LEADERS.

SO I THINK THE SYRACUSE-- THE POST STANDARD EDITORIAL BOARD GOT IT RIGHT WHEN IT PLACES THE ONUS ON THE SYRACUSE SCHOOL BOARD TO MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHETHER THIS IS WHAT THE BOARD WANTS TO PROMOTE.

>> BEN, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

OTHER CIVIC GROUPS CAN USE THE CHURCH, WHY NOT THE CHRISTIAN GROUP.

>> I BELIEVE IN THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

IT PREVENTS THE GOVERNMENT FROM ESTABLISHING RELIGION AND IT ALSO PROTECTS RELIGIOUS EXERCISE AND EXPRESSION FROM UNWANTED GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION.

AND I THINK THOSE TWO THINGS-- IT'S A HARD BALANCE, AS WE'VE SEEN.

THE SUPREME COURT HAS TAKEN THAT UP SINCE THEN AND HAS BRIDGED THE GAP TO STATES AND LOCAL AREAS THROUGH THE 14th AMENDMENT.

SO, YOU KNOW, I AGREE WITH WHAT NINA IS SAYING, THAT IT DOES HELP PEOPLE PROCESS THINGS WHEN YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN, TO GO OKAY, WHAT IF THERE IS ANOTHER RELIGION THAT YOU DON'T FULLY SUPPORT?

ARE YOU STILL OKAY WITH IT?

I BELIEVE IN WHAT THE CONSTITUTION HAS LAID OUT FOR US.

IT'S JUST A HARD BALANCE TO FIND.

>> SARAH?

>> WELL, I MEAN, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE I THINK IN THIS CASE BETWEEN LIKE ALLOWING A BIBLE CLUB TO COME AND USE THE FACILITIES OFF HOURS.

SO IF YOU ALLOW THE GIRL SCOUTS TO DO IT, HAVE YOU TO ALLOW A BIBLE STUDY.

I THINK THE IDEA IS THAT WORSHIP SERVICE IS DIFFERENT AND SO AS NINA SAID, THE COURT, SECOND CIRCUIT COURT HAS FOUND IT'S OKAY TO PREVENT WORSHIP BECAUSE YOU ARE DISCRIMINATING ON A BASIS OF AN ACTIVITY, NOT A VIEWPOINT.

THAT'S THE BIG DIFFERENCE HERE.

BUT THE ONE THUNK THAT BOTHERS ME ABOUT THIS STORY IS THAT SORT OF PUBLIC SUBSIDY OF THIS CHURCH.

SO I'M PART OF THE UNITARIAN CHURCH.

WE OWN A BUILDING.

IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE TO KEEP UP THAT BUILDING.

THIS CHURCH IS PART OF AN EVANGELICAL GROUP THAT IS TRYING TO SPREAD ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND IT'S A LOT OF START-UP COSTS TO START NEW CHURCH.

AND SO WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS USING PUBLIC FACILITIES LIKE PUBLIC SCHOOLS THAT COST VERY LITTLE TO RENT, $60 AN HOUR, TO TRY TO BUILD THEIR CONGREGATION, RAISE A LOT OF MONEY SO THEY CAN BUY A TAX-FREE BUILDING.

FOR ME, THAT SEEMS TO COME UP AGAINST THE LINE OF ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE, RIGHT?

THE GOVERNMENT SORT OF SUBSIDIZING A PARTICULAR CHURCH AND I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

>> WELL, I THINK WE AS AMERICANS HAVE BEEN ARGUING ABOUT THE ROLE OF RELIGION IN AMERICA SINCE THE PURITANS LANDED.

IT'S A GREAT ARGUMENT WE SHOULD ALWAYS BE HAVING.

THIS CASE DOESN'T CONCERN ME AS MUCH AS IT DOES IN SOUTHERN STATES WHERE THEY ARE USING STATE FUNDING FOR PRIVATE, PARTICULARLY CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS.

AND IT'S AFTERNOON END RUN TO TRY TO DEBILITATE PUBLIC EDUCATION AND MAKE SURE THAT MONEY FROM THE STATE GOES TO CERTAIN TYPES OF SCHOOLS AND NOT OTHERS.

SO IT WORRIES ME LESS HERE IN NEW YORK BECAUSE THERE IS GOING TO BE A ROBUST ARGUMENT ABOUT IT.

IT WORRIES ME MORE IN THOSE STATES WHERE THEY'RE USING MONEY TO SUPPORT CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS AT THE EXPENSE OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

>> I ACTUALLY THINK THAT THAT IS DEFINITELY TY, ISSUE RELATED HERE AND I HOPE WE TALK ABOUT IT HERE ON "IVORY TOWER" AT SOME POINT.

I DO SEE THAT, HOWEVER, AS DIFFERENT AS HAVING TO DO WITH WHAT BEN MENTIONED, WHICH IS THE QUESTION OF DO YOU DENY FAITH-BASED SCHOOLS ACCESS TO VOUCHER FUNDS SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY'RE FAITH-BASED.

AND THAT, TO ME, IS PROBLEMATIC FOR ALL SORTS OF REASONS.

I AGREE WITH YOU THAT, IN FACT, YOU ARE FUNNELING TAXPAYER FUNDS TOWARDS A RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION.

BUT DO YOU WANT TO DENY CATHOLIC SCHOOLS AND OTHER FAITH-BASED SCHOOLS?

IF I COULD GO BACK TO ANOTHER POINT THAT SARAH WAS MAKING, WHICH IS THAT, IN THIS CASE, WHERE SYRACUSE SCHOOL IS PERMITTING A CHURCH TO COME IN, BY EXTENSION, THE SCHOOL IS ENDORSING, SUPPORTING BECAUSE IT'S GIVING A SPACE TO IDEAS THAT DIRECTLY CONFLICT WITH THE SCHOOL'S OWN PRINCIPLES.

AND THEN IMAGINE THE SCHOOLS-- I'M SORRY, THE STUDENTS AND TEACHERS THAT HAVE TO GO INTO THAT BUILDING REALIZING THAT THERE IS AN ORGANIZATION SUPPORTED BY THE SCHOOL THAT HAS WHAT MANY WOULD CONSIDER HATEFUL VIEWS TOWARDS THOSE STUDENTS AND TEACHERS.

>> LET ME MOVE US TO OUR NEXT TOPIC.

I HEAR A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY "THINGS AREN'T LIKE THEY USED TO BE" AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE MORAL DECLINE TODAY, PEOPLE BEING LESS HONEST, LOWER ETHICAL STANDARDS.

AND IT TURNS OUT A RECENT SURVEY SHOWS THAT PEOPLE IN AT LEAST 60 NATIONS BELIEVE THAT'S TRUE AND HAVE BELIEVED THAT FOR 70 YEARS.

HOWEVER TWO SOCIAL PSYCHOLOGISTS FROM COLUMBIA AND HARVARD SAY THAT'S A MYTH.

THEIR RESEARCH SHOWS THAT WHEN ASKED ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES OR PEOPLE THEY KNOW - MOST DON'T THINK MORALITY HAS DECLINED.

MOST WILL SAY THAT MORALITY HAS NOT DECLINED.

SARAH, WHAT DOES THIS TELL US?

>> I'M NOT SURE HONESTLY.

I THINK THE STUDY SHOWS THAT PEOPLE HAVE A ROSIE PICTURE OF THE PAST.

THEY THINK WE WERE MORE MORAL AND ETHICAL IN THE PAST DUE TO CERTAIN COGNITIVE BIAS.

THAT WE PAY MORE ATTENTION IN THE PRESENT TO NEGATIVE INFORMATION AND IN OUR MEMORIES WE TEND TO THINK MORE POSITIVELY.

AND SO THAT SEEMS TO BE A GENERAL HUMAN PHENOMENA, WHICH IS SOMEWHAT INTERESTING, RIGHT?

BUT THE DATA ALSO OBSCURES A LOT OF NUANCE AND DIFFERENCES, RIGHT?

FIRST OF ALL THAT THE IDEAS OF THE MORAL DECLINE CHANGE, RIGHT?

THAT NOT ALL GROUPS FEEL SO STRONGLY THAT THERE IS A MORAL DECLINE.

AND I LOOKED UP SOME GALLUP POLLING TO DIG INTO THIS MORE IN THE U.S.

CONTEXT.

AND IT TURNS OUT THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, REPUBLICANS, EVER SINCE BIDEN WAS ELECTED, HUGE NUMBERS THINK THAT WE ARE IN MORAL DECLINE.

DEMOCRATS TENDED TO THINK THAT MORE IN THE CASE WHEN TRUMP WAS PRESIDENT.

SO, YOU KNOW, NO SURPRISE THERE.

BUT THE SORT OF CONTENT OF THE BELIEFS ARE QUITE DIFFERENT AS WELL.

IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN YOU ASK PEOPLE WELL WHAT DO YOU REALLY MEAN BY MORAL DECLINE?

REPUBLICANS TEND TO THINK MORE IN TERMS OF FAITH AND RELIGION AND A LACK THEREOF.

DEMOCRATS ARE MORE LIKELY TO SAY RACISM AND THE RISE OF RACISM.

THE CONTENT OF THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT AND THAT GETS LOST IN THIS LARGER SURVEY.

>> THAT IS SUCH A KIND ASSESSMENT OF THE STUDY BECAUSE I READ A FEW TIMES, BOTH THE ARTICLE.

I WENT TO THE STUDY.

I WENT TO THE SECTIONS ON METHODOLOGY.

I EVEN WENT AT THE INSTRUMENTATION AND I'M STILL WONDERING HOW IN THE HECK DO YOU GO TO THE DATA THAT YOU HAVE TO THE CONCLUSIONS THAT YOU ARE DRAWING?

TO ME THERE WAS A HUGE DISCONNECT, STARTING WITH THE POINT THAT YOU MAKE OF HOW DOES ONE DEFINE WHAT IS MORALITY?

THAT VARIES FROM COUNTRY TO COUNTRY, PERSON TO PERSON, REGION TO REGION.

AND YET, THIS META ANALYSIS, WHICH IS WHAT IT IS, TAKES ON 273 OTHER STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED TO COMBINE THEM WITH ANOTHER, I DON'T KNOW, 100 OR SO, AND THEN TO SOMEHOW SYNTHESIZE IT IN A WAY THAT'S MEANINGFUL?

NO.

THE FIRST PART ASKS, OKAY, WELL, DO YOU THINK THAT MORALITY HAS DECLINED?

FINE.

WE ALL DO THAT SORT OF THING IN OUR WORK.

THOSE ARE BASIC SURVEYS.

BUT THEN THE AUTHORS ARE SAYING, AND WE ALSO LOOK TO SEE WHETHER THEY WERE CORRECT, IF IN FACT THERE IS A DECLINE IN MORALITY TO PROVE THAT THERE ISN'T.

BUT THE WAY THEY DID IT WAS TO ASK THEM, AGAIN, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MORALITY HAS DECLINED?

I KNOW I'M GETTING INTO SORT OF POLITICAL SCIENCE STUFF BUT, COME ON.

NO, NO.

>> IS MORALITY IN DECLINE AND WOULD I QUOTE THOSE TWO GREAT PHILOSOPHERS CLICK AND CLACK WHO SAID BULL-ONEY.

SOCRATES COMPLAINED ABOUT PLATO AND BABY BOOMERS, THE FACT THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS, IS EVEN WORSE.

I MEAN TEEN PREGNANCY IS DOWN.

ALCOHOL USE IS DOWN, DRUG USE IS DOWN.

THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A BETTER TIME TO BE A HUMAN BEING THAN RIGHT NOW FROM A HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE.

TENS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE COME OUT OF POVERTY OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS.

MORALITY IS NOT IN DECLUN.

WE JUST THINK IT IS, IF IT IS IN OUR BEST INTEREST TO SAY IT BUT IT'S A GREAT TIME TO BE A HUMAN BEING.

>> AGREED.

I'M GOING TO AGREE WITH TY ON THIS ONE.

PARTICULARLY OVER THE LAST TWO CENTURIES WE GONE FROM 90% OF BEING EXTREMELY IN POVERTY TO ABOUT 9% NOW.

IT IS A DEFINITIONAL CONCERN WITH A META ANALYSIS OF MORALITY AND HOW PEOPLE DEFINE THAT.

BUT HERE'S THE THING.

WE ARE REALLY GOOD AT IDENTIFYING EVENTS.

WHAT WE STRUGGLE WITH ARE THE DEVELOPMENTS.

SO INCREMENTAL THINGS OVER TIME.

>> SARAH, I'M WONDERING WHAT THE UM PACT IS ON THE POLITICAL SCENE.

IF EVERYBODY THINKS THINGS ARE GETTING WORSE.

>> I THINK THE RESEARCHERS MAKE A LEAP OF FAITH THERE AS WELL.

SO THEY ARGUE THAT THIS COULD CROW EIGHT A SITUATION WHICH DEMAGOGUES CAN SORT OF REFERENCE THESE VERY ROSIE PASTS, RIGHT?

AND THEIR MESSAGES RESONATE WITH PEOPLE, RIGHT?

AND, YOU KNOW, WE SEE, YOU KNOW, PRESIDENT TRUMP DID THAT, PRESIDENT REAGAN DID THAT, MORNING IN AMERICA, ET CETERA.

BUT IT HIDES THE FACT THAT NOT EVERYONE IS SUSCEPTIBLE TO THOSE APPEALS, YOU KNOW, TRUMP IS DEEPLY UNPOPULAR.

AND THEN THEY'RE ALSO SIGNALING A CERTAIN KIND OF PAST, RIGHT?

IT'S NOT A GENERIC PAST.

IT'S A PAST WHEN THEIR AUTHORITIES, THEIR GENDER AND RACIAL HIERARCHIES WERE NOT QUESTIONED AS MUCH.

WHEN WOMEN AND MINORITIES DIDN'T HAVE AS MUCH POWER, RIGHT?

AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SIGNAL THERE.

>> AND IT'S A PAST, AGAIN, THAT'S LEAVING IT TO THE PARTICIPANTS IN THE SURVEY TO DECIDE WHICH PARTS OF THE PAST THAT THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK AT.

I MEAN WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT WOMEN WHO HAVE GIVEN CHILD BIRTH.

WHEN YOU ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF IT, IT'S HELL, RIGHT?

BUT 20 YEARS LATER, IT'S LIKE THAT WAS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL EXPERIENCE IN THE WORLD.

ALL RIGHT, DO WE NEED 12 MILLION RESPONSES TO A SURVEY TO TELL US THAT?

I WILL SAY THIS THOUGH IN FAVOR OF THE STUDY THAT ONE THING I THINK THEY TOUCH ON THAT I THINK IS USEFUL AND THAT IS THE IDEA OF RELYING ON BIASED INFORMATION SOURCES.

BUT THAT'S NOT A MORALITY ISSUE.

WE DO THAT.

WE LIVE, AS BEN HAS SAID QUITED A BIT, ON THE SHOW, WE LIVE IN OUR RESPECTIVE SILOS AS A RESULT WE THINK IN THOSE WAYS SO WE ARE GOING TO THINK THAT DEMOCRATS ARE IMMORAL IF WE ARE REPUBLICAN AND THE REVERSE.

>> OKAY.

CENTRAL NEW YORK IS HOME TO MANY PERSONS OF UKRAINIAN DESCENT INCLUDING MORE THAN 500 RECENT REFUGEES.

THEY -- AND MANY OF US-- CONTINUE TO WATCH THE HORROR OF THE WAR IN UKRAINE AND WONDER HOW AND WHEN IT WILL END • AND THEN HOW TO REBUILD UKRAINE.

WORLD LEADERS MET THIS WEEK TO START PLANNING THAT RECONSTRUCTION AND PLEDGED MORE THAN $56 BILLION TO UKRAINE, BUT AT LEAST SEVEN TIMES THAT WILL BE NEEDED.

AND YET THE WAR CONTINUES.

TY, HOW IS THE CAMPAIGN GOING.

>> IT'S NOT ENDING ANY TIME SOON.

THE UKRAINIANS HAVE STARTED A COUNTEROFFENSIVE WITH THE EQUIPMENT WE HAVE PROVIDED FOR THEM ALONG WITH WESTERN POWERS AND THERE IS A COUNTERATTACK ALONG THREE AXISES AND THE STRATEGIC GOAL IS TO CUT THE RUSSIAN FORCES BY GOING TO THE SEA AND THAT IS VERY HARD BECAUSE THE RUSSIANS NOW ARE VERY GOOD AT DOING DEFENSE AND THEY HAVE A 10 TO 20-MILE DEEP DEFENSE THAT THE UKRAINES ARE GOING TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH.

IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT TO DO THAT.

BUT DON'T COUNT THEM OUT.

THEY'RE PROBING FOR WEAKNESSES.

AND IF THEY FIND IT, THEY'LL EXPLOIT IT.

THAT'S MY MILITARY WAY OF SAYING THAT THIS IS-- DON'T COUNT THE UKRAINIANS OUT YET, THAT AMERICAN AND WESTERN HELP IS NEEDED AND WHAT BIDEN AND THE WEST OF THE WEST HAS TO DO IS STAY UNITED AGAINST THIS HORRIBLE THREAT THAT PUTIN AND THE RUSSIANS HAVE DONE.

>> BEN, STAYING UNITED.

IS THERE MONEY FOR THE WAR AND THEN ALL THE RECONSTRUCTION?

WOULD THE RUSSIANS EVER PAY FOR THAT?

>> NO TO THE RUSSIANS, TO THE LAST PART OF THAT.

I'M CONFIDENT WERE ABOUT THAT.

BUT I DO THINK THAT WHAT TY IS TALKING ABOUT HERE IS THIS ONGOING-- I MEAN WE ARE WELL OVER A YEAR.

BUT SOME OF THE STRATEGIES THAT ARE BEING USED NOW BY UKRAINE AND SUPPORTED BY ALLIES, SUCH AS THE UNITED STATES, ARE USING THINGS LIKE DRONES AND GETTING IT AS CLOSE TO MOSCOW AS THEY CAN AND WHEN THEY DO STUFF LIKE THAT, RUSSIA, THEN HAS TO REALLOCATE THEIR RESOURCES.

THEY HAVE TO PULL BACK THINGS THEY CAN USE TO HELP PROTECT THE SKY AND SO FORTH.

SO THERE IS AN OFFENSIVE COMPONENT TO THIS BUT ALSO PART OF THAT IS DECEPTION, ATTRITION AND UTILIZING THE RESOURCES THAT THEY HAVE TO HELP MANIPULATE A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT RUSSIA IS DOING, BECAUSE ULTIMATELY THE WAY THIS ENDS IS TO NOT HAVE THE CURRENT PRESIDENT THAT THEY HAVE IN RUSSIA.

>> AND SEE, THAT'S MY JUMP OFF POINT.

WHAT I LOVE ABOUT BEING ON "IVORY TOWER" IS THAT I GET TO ASK TY QUESTIONS ABOUT SOMETHING THAT I'M NOT AN EXPERT IN, SO DON'T FEEL OBLIGATED TO ANSWER, BUT THE QUESTIONS I HAVE ARE: WHAT IS THE EXIT STRATEGY?

WHAT IS THE POINT AT WHICH WE DECIDE EITHER THE MISSION HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED OR OUR ROLE HAS, YOU KNOW, RUN ITS COURSE.

IS IT THE REMOVAL OF PUTIN?

SECONDLY, WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE IN THE ACTIVE CAMPAIGN IF RUSSIA WERE TO USE NUCLEAR WEAPONRY.

WOULD THE U.S. THEN ENGAGE?

WHAT THAT IS BAD IS TOO BAD FOR US TO CONTINUE TO STAND ON THE SIDELINES AND THIRDLY HOW MUCH IS AMERICA WILLING TO PAY?

DO WE WANT TO PUTTED OUR MONEY WHERE OUR MOUTH IS WHEN WE'VE GOT A $ 31 TRILLION-DOLLAR NATIONAL DEBT.

AND MY SENSE IS THAT THE COUNTRY IS FATIGUED FROM WAR.

AGAIN, TY, YOU WOULD KNOW BETTER, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE PULLED OUT OF AFGHANISTAN.

IT WAS MESSY BUT PRETTY MUCH THE WHOLE COUNTRY WANTED THAT 20-YEAR WAR TO END.

AND SO NOW TO GET INTO PROTRACTED BATTLE INVOLVING A COUNTRY THAT CLOSELY BORDERS RUSSIA AND WITH A HISTORY THAT'S NOT LIKE OTHER WARS WHERE RUSSIA, YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE, HAS A CLAIM.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE NEED TO RESOLVE THOSE QUESTIONS BECAUSE WE ARE JUST SORT OF JUMPING IN THINKING ABOUT PROTECTING THE COUNTRY FROM INCURSIONS BY COMMUNISTS.

>> DO YOU SEE AN END STRATEGY?

>> REMEMBER, THERE IS NOT ONE SOLDIER IN HARM'S WAY IN UKRAINE.

AND THERE WAS IN AFGHANISTAN.

>> U.S.

SOLDIER.

>> AND WE HAVE SPENT ABOUT $50 BILLION AND COMPLETELY ATTRITTED THE CAPABILITY OF OUR WORST ENEMY TO FIGHT IN EUROPE.

AND EUROPEAN WAR HAS ALWAYS GOTTEN US INVOLVED.

AND WE HAVE SO MANY ALLIES IN THIS, THAT THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST USES OF AMERICAN MONEY, IN MY OPINION, THAT WE COULD POSSIBLY DO.

IT'S ALSO SAYING THAT THE RULE OF LAW, WHICH IS YOU CAN'T INVADE ANOTHER COUNTRY, WE WILL NOT AGREE TO THAT.

AND BECAUSE WE ARE NOT AGREEING TO IT AND THE ENTIRE WORLD, EXCEPT FOR MAYBE CHINA IS AGREEING WITH US, IT MAKES IT LESS LIKELY THAT ANOTHER COUNTRY WILL DO THIS.

I THINK THIS IS THE BEST USE OF AMERICAN MONEY, THE BEST USE OF AMERICAN POWER THAT WE COULD POSSIBLY USE AT THIS TIME.

>> AND I'LL QUICKLY JUST ADD TO THAT, THAT IT HAS TO BE INTERNAL.

RUSSIA INTERNALLY HAS REMOVE PUTIN.

IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK AS WELL, EVEN IN THE SHORT-TERM, IF IT'S THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

IT HAS TO BE A MOVEMENT AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, THAT GLOBAL RESPONSE IS KEY.

>> WELL, I MEAN I AGREE WITH TY, WE HAVE TO STAY THE COURSE IN UKRAINE.

AND I THINK THE FEAR IS THAT IF WE HAVE A REPUBLICAN WIN IN 2024, THAT OUR POLICY IS GOING TO BECOME LESS SUPPORTIVE OF UKRAINE, I THINK PUTIN KNOWS THAT.

PUTIN IS THINKING HE CAN HOLD OUT UNTIL 2024 HOPING A REPUBLICAN COMES IN AND WITHDRAWS SOME OF THAT SUPPORT.

ZELENSKYY KNOWS THE CLOCK IS TICKING AS WELL AND IS REALLY PUSHING HARD TO ENSURE THAT THE U.S. AND ITS ALLIES REALLY RAMP UP, YOU KNOW, SO THAT WE CAN GET THIS WAR OVER WITH.

I MEAN RIGHT NOW RUSSIA CONTROLS 18% OF UKRAINE AND FOR THEM, THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE AND I UNDERSTAND WHY.

>> LET ME GO BACK TO HER QUESTION ABOUT NUKES.

>> I DON'T THINK THAT THEY WILL -- THERE IS NO TACTICAL-- IT DOESN'T HELP YOU.

THERE IS NO WAY IT HELPS.

WE HAD THOUSANDS OF TACTICAL NUCLEAR WEAPONS WHEN I WAS STATIONED IN EUROPE IN THE 80s AND THEY'RE SMALL THINGS.

THEY MAKE A HUGE MESS AND THE ENTIRE WORLD WILL MAKE THEM EVEN MORE REPREHENSIBLE IF THEY DO THAT.

SO I DON'T SEE THEM DOING THAT.

I SEE THEM THREATENING THAT.

MOVEMENT TO BELARUS AND THEY'VE ALWAYS THREATENED THEM.

I DON'T THINK IT HELPS HIM IN ANY WAY AND THE THREAT AMERICANS WOULD DO BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, IF YOU DO THIS, THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WILL MAKE IT WORSE IF THEY DO THAT.

I DON'T SEE THAT.

PREDICTIONS, HISTORIANS KNOW THAT THE ABILITY TO PREDICT THE FUTURE, NOT AT ALL.

>> LET'S HOPE SO.

WE HAVE TO OPEN UP THE GRADEBOOK, BEN, SORRY.

SARAH, WHAT IS YOUR F FOR THE DA I.

>> SO MY F THIS WEEK GOES TO JUSTICE SAMUEL ALITO AND HIS RESPONSE TO CHARGES THAT HE FAILED TO DISCLOSE A GIFT FROM A G.O.P.

MEGA DONOR AND BILLIONAIRE PAUL SINGER AND THEN CHOSE NOT TO RECUSE HIMSELF FROM CASES THAT SINGER HAD BEFORE THE COURT.

ALITO'S REALLY LAME RESPONSE APPEARED IN THE WALL STREET JOURNAL IN THE EDITORIAL PAGE EVEN BEFORE THE NEWS ORGANIZATION PRO-PUBLICA PUBLISHED THEIR STORY.

SOMETHING THAT RARELY HAPPENS AND SYMBOLIZES THE SPECIAL TREATMENT HE FEELS ENTITLED TO.

>> NINA.

>> THE GIANT AFRICAN LAND SNAIL FORCED PARTS OF BROWARD COUNTY FLORIDA TO QUARANTINE THIS WEEK.

THE INVASIVE SPECIES CAN CARRY A PARASITE CALLED RAT LUNG WORM THAT CAN CAUSE MENINGITIS.

AND POSES A RISK TO AGRICULTURE.

CARRIES SALMONELLA BACTERIA AND CAN CONTAMINATE DIFFERENT PLANTS AND BUILDING EXTERIORS LIKE PLASTER AND PAINT.

THE WHOLE EXPERIENCE FOR ME IS A REMINDER WHAT CAN HAPPEN IF AND WHEN AN INVASIVE SPECIES MULTIPLIES UNCHECKED.

>> MY F TO SENATOR TOMMY TUBBERVILLE SENATOR FROM ALABAMA PUTTING A HOLD ON ALL GENERAL AND FLAG OFFICERS IN THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE BECAUSE THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE HAS A POLICY TO SERVE SERVICE MEMBERS OUT OF STATE TO GET ABORTIONS.

HE IS NOT JUST HURTING OUR NATIONAL SECURITY, WHICH HE IS BUT HE IS HURTING FAMILIES BECAUSE THEY NEED TO START THE SCHOOL YEAR.

THEY MOVE IN THE SUMMER AND HE IS PREVENTING THAT FROM HAPPENING.

IT'S A MEAN SPIRITED AND AWFUL POLICY AND HE NEEDS TO CHANGE IT IMMEDIATELY.

>> BEN.

>> TO AN AUTOSHOP OWNER WHO DUMPED 91,500 PENNIES THAT WERE SOAKED IN OIL ON A DRIVEWAY OF A FORMER EMPLOYEE.

SINCE THEN, I WILL SAY THAT HE HAS BEEN ORDERED TO DISH OUT 4 MILLION MORE PENNIES TO OTHER EMPLOYEES.

>> WELL, As SARAH, WHO HAS DONE SOMETHING WELL.

>> A TO JOURNAL HENRY GRAEBER FOR HIS NEW BOOK "PAVED PARADISE" HOW PARKING HAS RUINED THE AMERICAN MODERN CITY.

AS A COUNTRY WE DEVOTE A LOT OF LAND BY PARKING AND LAWS REQUIRE DEVELOPERS TO SET ASIDE CONSIDERABLE SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO PARK THEIR VEHICLES.

THAT DRIVES UP CONSTRUCTION PRICES AND ENCOURAGE DRIVING AND GENERATES SPRAWL.

AND AS GRAEBER PUTS IT, THE UNITED STATES IS UNDERHOUSED AND OVER PARKED.

>> NINA.

>> AND THEY PAVED PARADISE TO PUT UP A PARKING LOT.

MY A GOES TO THE BIPARTISAN CELEBRATION THIS WEEK OF THE UNVEILING OF THE POSTAL STAMP OF CIVIL RIGHTS ICON JOHN LEWIS ON CAPITOL HILL.

HOUSE SPEAKER KEVIN McCARTHY SAID THE COMMEMORATIVE STAMPS GENERALLY HONOR HEROES AND THAT "ADDING JOHN LEWIS TO THIS COLLECTION, WE ARE HONORING AN EXTRAORDINARY CONTRIBUTION TO THE AMERICAN STORY AND INSPIRING FUTURE GENERATIONS TO FOLLOW HIS LEAD."

>> TY.

>> MY A GOES TO FORMER GOVERNOR CHRIS CHRISTIE.

WE NEEDED A BRILLIANT MEAN SPIRITED MEAN SON OF A GUN CALLED DONALD TRUMP A LOSER AND HE IS DOING A GREAT JOB.

>> AND BEN.

>> MY A IS GOING TO SOME RESEARCH THAT HAS DEVELOPED THIS ROBOT, AS WILL YOU SEE IS NEXT TO A PENNY WHICH I THOUGHT WAS FUNNY, PENNIES FROM HEAVEN TODAY.

WHAT IT IS DOING IS ABLE TO DELIVER SOME MEDICINE AND OTHER ITEMS TO WITHIN THE BODY QUITE EASIER THAN OTHER MECHANISMS PRIOR TO THIS.

>> JUST QUICKLY, HOW DOES IT WORK?

>> SO IT IS SHAPED IN A WAY THAT IT IS ABLE TO WORK THROUGH THE BODY.

IT'S GOT MAGNETIC DEVICES ON IT WHERE IT CAN PUT MEDICINE IN THERE AND DELIVER IT DIRECTLY TO IT OR IT CAN HEAT UP TO 160 FAIRN FAHRENHEIT TO SEER A WOUND INTERNAL.

>> AMAZING WHAT IS BEING DEVELOPED.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

PLEASE LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE TOPICS WE'VE DISCUSSED.

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