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♪ >>> HI, EVERYBODY, WELCOME TO CHAT BOX, I'M DAVID CRUZ, HAPPY TO BE BACK WITH YOU AFTER A HOLIDAY BREAK.

LISTEN, 2023 IS PROMISING TO BE EVENTFUL ON MANY FRONTS AND IT KICKS OFF WITH THE GOVERNOR'S STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS, IF I'M MURPHY DELIVERING THIS WEEK IN FRONT OF A LIVE AUDIENCE FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE COVID.

LET'S TAKE A QUICK LOOK AT WHAT HE HAD TO SAY.

>> FOR ALL OUR EXCITEMENT ABOUT OUR COLLECTIVE TOMORROW LET'S TAKE STOCK FOR A MOMENT OF WHERE WE ARE TODAY.

FIRST, OUR STATE HAS REGAINED AND GROWN KNEW JOBS FOR 31 CONSECUTIVE MONTHS.

OUR UNEMPLOYMENT RATE STANDS AT 3.4%.

THAT'S BOTH LOWER THAN THE NATIONAL RATE, AND THE LOWEST IT'S BEEN SINCE RIGHT BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.

MOREOVER, IN THE THIRD QUARTER OF 2022, THAT'S THE MOST RECENT QUARTER FOR WHICH WE HAVE THE DATA, NEW JERSEY'S GDP GREW 3.9% ABOVE THE LEVEL OF THE SECOND QUARTER.

THAT'S THE TENTH BIGGEST JUMP IN THE NATION, AND THE HIGHEST GROWTH RATE OF ANY STATE IN OUR ENTIRE NORTHEASTERN NEIGHBORHOOD.

WHAT'S MORE, WHAT'S MORE, IT'S MORE THAN A HALF A POINT GROWTH -- OF GROWTH ABOVE THE NATIONAL AVERAGE, AND WE OUTPACED MANY OF THE SO-CALLED BUSINESS-FRIENDLY STATES, STATES THAT SOME CLAIM WE HAVE TO EMULATE, STATES INCLUDING GEORGIA AND FLORIDA.

>> REPUBLICANS GAVE THE SPEECH A COLD SHOULDER, MANY SAYING THAT THE GOVERNOR WAS PAINTING A TOO ROSY PICTURE OF THE STATE OF THE STATE.

LET'S HEAR FROM ONE NOW, THE TWICE AND FUTURE GOP CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR, JACK CIATTARELLI.

ASSEMBLYMAN, WELCOME BACK TO CHAT BOX, HAPPY NEW YEAR, MAN.

>> HAPPY NEW YEAR, DAVID, GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.

>> YOU HEARD THE GOVERNOR, IT'S COOL TO BE FROM JERSEY AGAIN, NO?

>> WELL, LISTEN, I THINK HE'S SMO SMOKE SOME OF THAT CANNABIS THAT HE DESPERATELY WANTS TO BE APPROVED.

LISTEN, DAVID, THERE'S A TALE OF TWO CITIES, TALE OF TWO STORIES HERE IN NEW JERSEY.

THINGS ARE NOT AS GREAT AS THE GOVERNOR WOULD PORTRAY THEM TO BE BUT WE EXPECT THIS STATE OF THE STATE, PARTICULARLY FROM THIS KIND OF GOVERNOR, WHERE HE'S GOING TO DO THE VICTORY DANCE.

IF EVERYTHING HE'S SAYING IS TRUE HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THE PROPERTY TAX CRISIS, NEW JERSEY'S BUSINESS CLIMATE, AND SOME OF THE MORE URGENT MATTERS WITH REGARD TO OUR TEST SCORES FOR OUR K THROUGH 12 STUDENTS AND THE SHORTAGE OF TEACHERS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT PROFESSIONALS ALL THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

>> HE SAYS HERE UNEMPLOYMENT DOWN, JOB CREATION CONSISTENT, 31 MONTHS IN A ROW, COLLECTIONS ARE UP, GDP IS UP.

WHAT ARE WE MISSING?

>> LISTEN, WE'VE SEEN THOSE TRENDS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

BUT AGAIN, IF THAT'S THE CASE, WHY ARE WE NOT ADDRESSING OUR PROPERTY TAX CRISIS, OUR BUSINESS CLIMATE CRISIS, HIS DEMOCRATIC COLLEAGUE, THE GOVERNOR OF PENNSYLVANIA, CUT THE BUSINESS TAX IN HALF BECAUSE OF ALL THE GOOD NEWS.

WE HAVEN'T SEEN THAT HERE IN NEW JERSEY.

DAVID, ALL THROUGHOUT THE FIVE YEARS HE'S BEEN GOVERNOR, AND PARTICULARLY DURING THE STATE OF THE STATE, WE JUST DON'T SEE THIS GOVERNOR WANTING TO DO THE HEAVY LIFTING.

YOU REALLY CAN'T NAME SOME SERIOUS, VERY SIGNIFICANT LEGISLATIVE ACCOMPLISHMENTS, OR BIG, BIG CHANGES IN THE WAY THAT JERSEY GOES ABOUT BUSINESS.

>> MAYBE IN THAT REGARD.

BUT, I MEAN, YOU'D HAVE TO AGREE THAT AT LEAST FROM THE PROGRESSIVE POINT OF VIEW HE'S GOT SOME ACCOMPLISHMENTS THERE, RIGHT?

I MEAN, QUE H SPHE CAN SPEAK TOT AND SAY, HEY, I'VE DONE THIS.

>> HE DOES THAT THROUGHOUT HIS TENURE AS GOVERNOR.

HE DOESN'T SPEAK TO ALL OF NEW JERSEY.

HE PANDERS TO HIS BASE AND THE SPECIAL INTERESTS THAT HAVE SUPPORTED HIM WITH BIG DOLLARS, INCLUDING THE LEADERSHIP OF THE NJEA.

YES, HE DOES PANDER.

AND HE HAS GIVEN THE PROGRESSIVE ELEMENT OF HIS PARTY SOME VICTORIES.

BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT'S NECESSARILY GOOD FOR NEW JERSEY.

TALK TO NEW JERSEYENS.

YOU CAN POLL REPUBLICANS, YOU CAN POLL DEMOCRATS, BUT LESS THAN 50% OF THE UNAFFILIATED INDEPENDENT VOTERS OF NEW JERSEY, OF WHICH THERE ARE 2.5 MILLION, DON'T THINK HE'S DOING A VERY GOOD JOB.

>> AT THE SAME TIME WE KEEP HEARING ABOUT THIS MOVE TO THE RIGHT, OR TO THE CENTER, ON THE PART OF THIS PROGRESSIVE GOVERNOR, AND THIS DEMOCRATIC PARTY-LED LEGISLATURE.

YOU BUY THAT, OR ARE YOU ONE OF THOSE REPUBLICANS WHO SAY, YEAH, THEY'RE MOVING TO THE CENTER BECAUSE WE PUSHED THEM THERE?

>> YOU HAVE TO ADMIT, DAVID, HE WAS MUCH LESS PROGRESSIVE IN TERMS OF HIS IDEAS AND PROPOSALS IN THIS STATE OF THE STATE THAN HE WAS IN THE PREVIOUS FOUR.

I THINK THAT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH THE ELECTION OF TWO YEARS AGO, AND I THINK IT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH THE LEGISLATURE BEING AT THE TOP OF THE BALLOT THIS YEAR.

THE PEOPLE OF NEW JERSEY, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO B.S.

THEM.

THEY WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS THEY'RE UP AGAINST EVERY SINGLE DAY.

>> WE HAD, OF COURSE, THE REPUBLICAN RESPONSE TO THE STATE OF THE STATE, AND THE REPUBLICANS TALKING ABOUT THEIR OWN BUDGET PLAN THAT THEY PUT FORWARD.

ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH IT, AND DO YOU SUPPORT IT?

>> I'M SOMEWHAT FAMILIAR WITH IT.

WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE IS CONTROL IN SPENDING.

I MEAN, THE GOVERNOR IS UP $16 BILLION IN FIVE YEARS TIME, THAT'S A 40% INCREASE.

IT'S AN UNPRECEDENTED INCREASE IN SPENDING.

AND YET WE HAVEN'T SOLVED OUR MOST PERMANENT, AND INFURIATING PROBLEMS, WHETHER IT'S THE PROPERTY TAX CRISIS, WHETHER IT'S OUR BUSINESS CLIMATE, AND, AGAIN, HERE AND NOW, WE'VE GOT A REALLY BAD SITUATION IN OUR SCHOOLS WITH THE LOWEST TEST SCORES IN FIVE YEARS TIME, I TALKED ABOUT THE SHORTAGE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT PROFESSIONALS, AND TEACHERS.

OTHER STATES HAVE USED THE SURPLUSES THAT MURPHY HAS AVAILABLE TO HIM TO SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS.

NEW YORK IS TALKING ABOUT CUTTING BUSINESS TAXES.

YOU'VE HEARD ABOUT REFORMING BAIL REFORM IN OTHER STATES BECAUSE OF THE INCREASE IN CRIME.

I MEAN, YOU'RE JUST NOT SEEING THIS GOVERNOR DO WHAT I WOULD CALL THE REALLY HEAVY LIFTING.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, HE'S TALKING ABOUT THE ANCHOR PROGRAM THAT'S GOING TO GIVE UP TO $1,500 IN TAX RELIEF, AND I'M USING AIR QUOTES, TAX RELIEF, AND THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT PICKING UP ON BAIL REFORM.

SO THEY ARE DEALING WITH THOSE THINGS, NO?

>> WITH REGARD TO ANCHOR, I JUST FIND IT INSULTING, DAVID.

YES, IT'S GREAT THAT PEOPLE WILL GET ANOTHER REBATE PROGRAM BUT IT'S JUST INSULTING TO TAKE MONEY OF YOUR RIGHT-HAND POCKET, PUT IT BACK IN YOUR LEFT-HAND POCKET AND TAKE CREDIT FOR IT AS A REBATE PROGRAM.

>> RIGHT.

>> MIND YOU, WHEN THE NEXT DOWNTURN COMES ALONG, THAT WILL BE ONE OF THOSE PROGRAMS THAT WILL BE MOST STRESSED TO CONTINUE ON.

AND BY THE WAY, IT CAME OUT OF THE GATES SLOW, JUST AS EVERYTHING ELSE UNDER HIS ADMINISTRATION, THE PHONE LINES WERE OVERWHELMED, THE CHECKS HAD BEEN DELAYED, THEY'VE EXTENDED THE DEADLINE, THERE'S ALMOST 50% OF THE PEOPLE ELIGIBLE STILL HAVE NOT APPLIED, THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH THAT TYPE OF PROGRAM.

THE BEST TYPE OF PROGRAM IS WHEN WE DON'T TAKE THE MONEY OUT OF YOUR POCKET TO BEGIN WITH, RATHER THAN TRYING TO PUT IT BACK IN.

>> THE GOP ALSO IS COMPLAINING, AND YOU HAVE TODAY ALREADY, I THINK, THREE TIMES TALKED ABOUT THE TERRIBLE BUSINESS -- OR THE TERRIBLE CLIMATE FOR BUSINESS.

AND REPUBLICANS ARE TALKING ABOUT LETTING THE CORPORATE BUSINESS TAX INCREASE EXPIRE.

YOU I ASSUME ARE OKAY WITH THAT AS WELL?

>> I AM.

AND GUESS WHO ELSE IS SUDDENLY, 48 HOURS AFTER THE STATE OF THE STATE.

PHIL MURPHY.

ONE OF YOUR RIVAL NEWS ORGANIZATIONS ANNOUNCED ABOUT A HALF HOUR AGO HE IS SUDDENLY IN FAVOR OF LETTING THE CORPORATE SURCHARGE EXPIRE, AND HE'S HINTING AT MORE TAX CUTS.

NOW, ISN'T IT AMAZING THAT 48 HOURS AFTER YOU GIVE A STATE OF THE STATE, WHICH IS THE MOMENT IN WHICH YOU WOULD DISCUSS THOSE KIND OF IDEAS, HE SUDDENLY IS IN FAVOR OF TAX CUTS.

AND I THINK IT'S BECAUSE A GREAT MANY PEOPLE AROUND THE STATE WERE UNDERWHELMED BY THE STATE OF THE STATE, IT'S BEING CALLED TO HIS ATTENTION THAT THE ENTIRE STATE LEGISLATURE, INCLUDING HIS DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY, IS AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET THIS YEAR, AND MAYBE HE'S FEELING THE PRESSURE.

>> JUST FOR THE RECORD, WE HAVE NO RIVALS.

>> WELL, DAVID, YOU HAVE NO RIVALS.

>> THANK YOU.

YOU TALKED ABOUT 2023, AND HOW THE ENTIRE LEGISLATURE IS UP THIS YEAR.

WHY ARE YOU SO OPTIMISTIC?

I KNOW A COUPLE YEARS AGO EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT HOW JACK CIATTARELLI ALMOST WON THAT GOVERNOR'S RACE, AND HE HAD COAT TAILS, NONETHELESS, BROUGHT IN -- I GUESS IT WAS SEVEN SEATS THAT YOU PICKED UP THERE.

WHY DO YOU FEEL SO OPTIMISTIC, GIVEN PARTICULARLY WHAT HAPPENED IN THE MIDTERMS?

>> BECAUSE WE CAN BUILD ON THAT MOMENTUM OF 2021, BECAUSE THIS IS ALL ABOUT NEW JERSEY, WITH THE LEGISLATURE BEING AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET SHEER, BECAUSE WE'VE GOT A NEW MAP.

THE LEGISLATIVE MAPS ARE REDRAWN EVERY TEN YEARS, AND THIS MAP, IN OUR OPINION, AND A GREAT MANY OTHERS, FEEL THAT THIS IS A MORE REPUBLICAN MAP.

THAT PROVIDES A VERY, VERY SPECIAL OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE WE'RE RECRUITING GREAT CANDIDATES.

BUT MOST OF ALL, DAVID, VERY MUCH LIKE MY GUBERNATORIAL CAMPAIGN, WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE ISSUES THAT MATTER TO NEW JERSEYENS, WE'RE FOR THE TAXPAYER, WE'RE FOR BUSINESS, PARTICULARLY ON MAIN STREET, AND WE'RE CERTAINLY FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY AND SUPPORTING THEM IN EVERY WAY THAT WE CAN, AND CERTAINLY WE'RE FOR PARENTAL RIGHTS AND GETTING OUR PUBLIC SCHOOL CURRICULUM BACK ON TRACK.

LET'S LET KIDS BE KIDS AND GET BACK TO TEACHING THE BASICS.

>> AT THE SAME TIME AS WE LOOK AHEAD TO 2023, YOU'RE THE FIRST GUY OUT OF THE BOX TALKING ABOUT RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR AGAIN IN A COUPLE YEARS.

BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ALONE, AND THERE IS SOME SUGGESTION THAT YOUR PARTY IS STILL IN THIS SELF-RECKONING FAZE.

I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT A COUPLE OF CRAZY TALK SHOW HOSTS -- CONSERVATIVE TALK SHOW HOSTS WHO SAY THEY'RE GOING TO RUN.

AND ANOTHER CANDIDATE WHO SAYS YOU'RE A RHINO.

>> IT WOULDN'T BE THE FIRST TIME WE'VE HEARD NAME-CALLING IN POLITICS, DAVID.

SO LISTEN, I TRULY DO BELIEVE COMPETITION MAKES US BETTER.

I DON'T RUN AROUND THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY ACTING LIKE THE ANOINTING ONE.

I'VE NEVER HAD ANY ISSUE WITH HAVING TO EARN MY NOMINATIONS.

MY FOCUS IN 2023 ARE THE 120 SEATS IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE.

I DON'T WANT TO GIVE UP THE GROUND WE PICKED UP IN 2021.

I'LL BE WORKING REALLY HARD FOR OUR 120 REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES.

>> I'VE GOT TO ASK YOU, BECAUSE HE'S ALREADY DECLARED, YOU KIND OF HAD TO WALK A FINE LINE BETWEEN SUPPORTING TRUMP-ERA POLICIES, BUT NOT SO MUCH THE GUY WHO WAS PRESENTING THOSE POLICIES.

HE'S RUNNING AGAIN.

MAYBE CHRIS CHRISTIE.

MAYBE DeSANTIS AND OTHERS.

ARE YOU KEEPING YOUR POWDER DRY WHEN IT COMES TO WHO YOU PLAN TO SUPPORT FOR PRESIDENT?

>> NOT REALLY.

I'M JUST VERY, VERY FOCUSED ON NEW JERSEY.

I HAVE NO DESIRE TO GO TO WASHINGTON, D.C., AND I THINK WHAT WE HEARD IN THE MURPHY STATE OF THE STATE IS A GREAT MANY LINES THAT SUGGEST HE DOES WANT TO GO TO WASHINGTON.

I WOULD NEVER USE NEW JERSEY AS A STEPPINGSTONE.

NEW JERSEY IS MY LAST STOP.

IT'S THE STATE THAT I LOVE.

IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN HOME, AND ALWAYS WILL BE.

>> MY QUESTION, THOUGH, WAS ABOUT WHO YOU WOULD SUPPORT FOR PRESIDENT, DO YOU NOT HAVE A PREFERENCE AT THIS POINT?

>> THAT'S EASY, DAVID, I WOULD SUPPORT THE PERSON THAT SUPPORTS NEW JERSEY.

CERTAINLY TRUMP HAD SOME POLICY SUCCESSES, BUT HE ALSO HAD SOME POLICY POSITIONS THAT WEREN'T GOOD FOR NEW JERSEY, OFFSHORE DRILLING, LACK OF SUPPORT FOR THE GATEWAY PROJECT, AND ELIMINATION OF ASSAULT INDUCTION.

IT'S HARD TO SUPPORT A PRESIDENT'S NOMINEE OR RATHER A CANDIDATE FOR THE PRESIDENCY WHO ISN'T IN SYNC WITH WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO NEW JERSEYENS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

YOU SAID A LOT THERE, WITHOUT SAYING A LOT.

SO I APPRECIATE THAT.

YOU HEARD IN OUR CLIP FROM THE GOVERNOR, HE VERY SPECIFICALLY MENTIONS FLORIDA, AND GEORGIA.

NOT THAT IT MATTERS TO YOU, JEJEEP GENERALLY SPEAKING, WHAT'S YOUR SENSE OF WHETHER THIS GUY IS PLANNING A RUN FOR PRESIDENT?

>> IN MY MIND, HE'S ALREADY PLANNED RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT IF JOE BIDEN DOESN'T RUN, DAVID, AND AGAIN, I FIND THAT ASPECT OF THE STATE OF THE STATE INSULTING.

IT'S NOT WHAT I WANT TO HEAR.

HE'S STILL THE GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY.

WE'VE GOT URGENT MATTERS HERE THAT NEED HIS ATTENTION.

AND HIM TAKING SHOTS AT THE GOVERNORS OF STATES WHO HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE ALSO BEING MENTIONED AS POTENTIAL PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEES, WHAT I WOULD SAY TO THE GOVERNOR IS, YOU KNOW, YOU FORGOT A FEW OTHER STATES.

BUT I JUST WISH THE FOCUS WOULD STAY HERE, AND THE OTHER THING I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND IS USING A STATE OF THE STATE TO TALK ABOUT REFORM OF LIQUOR LICENSES.

I MEAN, REALLY?

IS THIS WHAT'S ON PEOPLE'S MINDS?

IS THIS WHAT'S BOTHERING PEOPLE EVERY DAY?

I'M NOT SAYING WE DON'T NEED TO REFORM OUR LIQUOR LICENSE SYSTEM, BUT MY GOODNESS, IS THAT A STATE OF THE STATE TOPIC?

>> ARE WE GOING TO LEAVE IT RIGHT THERE?

JACK CIATTARELLI, GOOD TO SEE YOU, MAN, HAPPY NEW YEAR, THANKS FOR COMING ON.

>> THANK YOU, DAVID.

>> I WAS LOOKING FOR A RIVER METAPHOR THAT WOULD APPLY TO THE POLITICS AHEAD IN 2023.

BUT THERE ARE JUST SO MANY.

RIVERS TURNS OUTS MAKE FOR GET MET FORS, AND FEW RIVERS PEEK SOT HISTORY AND ECOL APOLOGY AND THE SPIRIT OF NEW JERSEY LIKE THE PASSAIC RIVER.

IF ALL YOU KNOW IS WHAT YOU SEE FROM ROUTE 21, A DOCUMENTARY CALLED "AMERICAN RIVER" WILL PROBABLY SURPRISE YOU.

LET'S TAKE A QUICK LOOK.

♪ >> IT'S THE RIVER THAT REALLY BUILT NEW JERSEY.

IT'S THE RIVER THAT, IN MANY WAYS, BUILT THE COUNTRY.

♪ >> THE RIVER'S NO LONGER THE RIVER ONCE WAS, IT'S A POLLUTED WATERWAY.

NOT JUST ANY POLLUTED WATERWAY, IT IS ONE OF THE MAJOR POLLUTED WATERWAYS OF THE UNITED STATES.

>> IT'S ILLEGAL TO CATCH CRABS IN THE WHOLE LOWER 17 MILE STRETCH OF THIS RIVER.

>> IF YOU WANT TO FIND POLLUTED AREAS, TEST THE SOIL OR CHECK OUT THE ECONOMIC LEVEL OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE.

>> WE NOT ONLY WILL FIGHT FOR THIS BUT WE DESERVE THIS.

THIS IS A COMMUNITY THAT HAS BEEN, FOR TOO LONG, SEPARATED AND DIVORCED FROM A CONNECTION TO THIS RIVER.

>> JOINING US NOW TO TALK ABOUT AMERICAN RIVER ARE AUTHOR AND AQUATIC ECOLOGIST MARY BRUNO, THE FILM'S NARRATOR, AND PRODUCER/DIRECTOR SCOTT MORRIS, WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU TO CHAT BOX.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANKS, DAVID.

>> SO, MARY, I CALL YOU THE NARRATOR.

BUT YOU'RE ALSO A SUBJECT OF THIS FILM, TOO, IN THE SENSE THAT THE STORY BEGINS WITH YOU TELLING US HOW THE RIVER WAS ALWAYS LIKE A MONSTER TO YOU.

WHAT TRIGGERED YOU TO GO BACK AND KIND OF LOOK IT IN THE EYE?

>> WELL, LET ME ANSWER -- FIRST SAY THAT I THINK OF MYSELF IN THE FILM AS THROUGH THE EVERY MAN, LIKE THE STAND-IN FOR THE AUDIENCE.

AND WHAT MADE ME GO BACK AND REVISIT THE PASSAIC IS WHEN I LEFT NEW JERSEY AND STARTED STUDYING AQUATIC ECOLOGY AND I BECAME FAMILIAR WITH ALL THESE DIFFERENT BODIES OF WATER, LAKES AND BOGS AND STREAMS AND RIVERS, BECAME SO ENAMORED OF THEM, THE WONDER AND THE MAJESTY OF WATER.

AND IT OCCURRED TO ME WHILE I WAS DOING THAT IT'S SO ODD THAT I WOULD HAVE SUCH A DYSFUNCTIONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH MY HOMETOWN RIVER.

AND WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT?

AND THE MORE I THOUGHT ABOUT IT, THE MORE I STARTED RESEARCHING THE PASSAIC AND THE MORE I LEARNED, THE MORE I REALIZED HOW IGNORANT I WAS OF ITS STORY, WHICH WAS FASCINATING, AND TRAGIC IN SOME WAYS.

AND, YOU KNOW, SO BOOKS KIND OF HAVE A WAY OF HAVING A WAY WITH YOU.

AND THE PASSAIC REALLY WOULDN'T LET ME GO.

FINALLY, I THOUGHT, OKAY, OKAY, OKAY, I'LL WRITE ABOUT YOU.

>> SCOTT, I'M ALWAYS FASCINATED BY THE HOW OF A FILM LIKE THIS.

I IMAGINE YOU HAD SOME GO PROS ON THE FRONT OF THE KAYAKS.

WHAT'S A CREW LIKE FOR THIS?

AND WHAT WERE SOME OF THE CHALLENGES HERE?

>> WELL, IT WAS A VERY AMBITIOUS PROJECT.

AND I HAD REACHED OUT TO MARY BRUNO IN THE SPRING OF 2018 ABOUT WHETHER SHE WOULD GO ON A CA CANOE-KAYAK TRIP DOWN THE RIVER.

AND I WAS FORTUNATE TO HAVE A REALLY GOOD PERSON BEHIND ME TO FUND THE PROJECT, DILLLARD KIRBY.

I MOUNTED A VERY AMBITIOUS PROJECT.

I WANTED TO COVER THE ENTIRE JOURNEY, FROM THE SOURCE TO THE MOUTH.

WHICH WAS FOUR DAYS, AND 80 MILES.

AND I HAD MARY AND CARL WHO WERE THESE TWO REALLY KIND OF DYNAMIC, ENTERTAINING SUBJECTS.

AND SO WE MOUNTED A LARGE PRODUCTION.

WE HAD A 15-PERSON CREW.

I HAD TEN CAMERAS.

AND INCLUDING -- THERE WERE GO PROS ON THE KAYAKS, BUT MUCH OF IT WAS ALSO COVERED BY CAMERAS ON FOOT, CAMERAS IN A CAMERA BOAT, A DRONE, WHICH WAS -- WE HAD A REALLY NICE DRONE.

>> GREAT SHOTS, YEAH.

>> THERE WERE UPWARDS OF TEN CAMERAS ROLLING AND CAPTURING THE ENTIRE TRIP IN PRACTICALLY REALTIME.

WE SPREAD IT OUT OVER TWO WEEKENDS.

SO WE HAD SOME TIME IN BETWEEN TO CATCH OUR BREATH.

AND ALSO IN BETWEEN WE WOULD GO BACK AND INTERVIEW SEVERAL OF THE MYRIAD OF PEOPLE WHO ARE FEATURED IN THE FILM, YOU KNOW, RESIDENTS AND ADVOCATES ALONG THE WAY.

SO IT WAS A VERY AMBITIOUS PROJECT.

AND WE ALSO, IT TOOK YEARS TO EDIT.

>> MARY, TELL US ABOUT CARL, YOUR TRAVELING COMPANION.

>> OH, CARL.

CARL IS -- WELL, FIRST OF ALL, HE'S VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT WATER, ABOUT AKWAT QUATIC PLANT HE'S A TOTALLY GREAT, AND VERY DARING, DARE I SAY, DAREDEVIL KAYAKER.

HE WAS KIND OF GAME FOR EVERYTHING.

AND HE WAS ALSO JUST GOOD COMPANY.

YOU KNOW, HE WAS CHATTY, IF YOU WANTED HIM TO BE CHATTY.

HE WAS QUIET.

HE WAS REALLY THOUGHTFUL.

I MEAN, FOLKS WHO SEE THE FILM WILL, I THINK, HOPEFULLY APPRECIATE THE THINGS THAT HE SAYS ARE SO SORT OF PROFOUND AND INTERESTING.

BUT THE BEST THING ABOUT HIM FOR ME WAS THAT -- AND AS I SAY IN THE FILM, IS HE WAS MY COURAGE.

BECAUSE I GREW UP BEING AFRAID OF THE PASSAIC, AND WITH GOOD REASON.

AND SO THE IDEA OF KAYAKING IT, LIKE, YOU KNOW, GETTING IN THE WATER, MAYBE GETTING WET, WAS KIND OF SCARY FOR ME, EVERYONE SOMEONE WHO LOVES WATER, AND WHO'S, YOU KNOW, COMFORTABLE WITH PADDLING.

SO CARL JUST GAVE ME THE COURAGE TO DO IT, TO BE ON THE WATER AND NOT TO BE AFRAID.

THERE WERE TIMES WHEN WE WOULD RUN INTO THESE GIANT LOGS THAT WE HAD TO GET ACROSS OR UNDER OR AROUND, AND I WOULD THINK, OKAY, THAT'S IT, IT'S OVER,L LET'S JUT GO HOME.

NOT CARL.

HE WOULD BE, BOOM, FIND A WAY TO GET AROUND THAT OBSTACLE.

MOST OF THE TIME IN THIS GYMNASTIC WAY.

HE WAS FUN.

>> IT'S A BUDDY PIC, AN ADVENTURE, IT'S A TRAVEL LOG.

HOW DID THAT ALL COME TOGETHER?

DID IT START AS ONE PROJECT, AND END UP BEING A DIFFERENT PROJECT, IN TERMS OF THE NARRATIVE?

>> NO, ACTUALLY, I -- A LOT OF IT'S VERY STRONGLY BASED ON MARY BRUNO'S BOOK, AN AMERICAN RIVER FROM PARADISE TO SUPER FUND, WHICH I HAD READ AND HEARD HER DO A BOOK TALK ABOUT.

THAT GAVE ME A FOUNDATION FOR THE FILM ALTHOUGH I COULDN'T EXACTLY NARROW THE STORY BECAUSE A LOT OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN IT ARE SADLY NO LONGER WITH US, AND WE'RE ALSO DEALING WITH A TEN-YEAR TIME SPAN BETWEEN THE TRIP THAT WAS IN THE BOOK, AND THE ONE WE FILMED.

SO THINGS CHANGED.

SOME OF THOSE CHANGES WE WANTED TO CAPTURE.

BUT THE ESSENTIAL STRUCTURE OF THE STORY, AND ESPECIALLY -- YOU SAY MARY IS THE NARRATOR.

I ALWAYS QUESTIONED WHETHER I WANTED TO MAYBE WRITE A NARRATION, AND BRING IN A VOICE OF GOD NARRATOR TO FILL IN THE MISSING PIECES BUT AFTER MEETING MARY, AND CARL, I THOUGHT THAT WE COULD EASILY TELL THE STORY THROUGH THEIR OWN WORDS.

SO SHOOTING THE INTERVIEWS WITH THEM, WHICH WE DID A COUPLE OF TIMES BEFORE AND AFTER THE THE KAYAK TRIP REALLY HELPED SORT OF FLESH THE STORY OUT.

A LOT OF THE INTERVIEWS WE DID ALONG THE WAY AREN'T THE SAME AS WHAT WAS IN MARY'S BOOK AND SOME OF THE PEOPLE AREN'T THE SAME BUT I TOOK MY CUES FROM MARY'S BOOK, WHAT WERE THE BEST PLACES TO STOP ALONG THE WAY, WHAT WERE THE FEATURES WE REALLY WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT AND WHAT WAS THE OVERARCHING STORY GOING TO BE?

SO IN MANY WAYS MARY AND I WERE TRUE COLLABORATORS ON THIS, AND WE FELT STRONGLY WE WANTED TO DELIVER THE SAME ULTIMATELY HOPEFUL MESSAGE.

>> MARY IN THE END YOU TALK ABOUT THE STORY OF THIS RIVER AND YOU TELL OUT THROUGH THESE CHARACTERS, EVERYTHING FROM ITS MOST BUCOLIC BEGINNINGS, TO, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S HAPPENED TO IT ONCE IT'S REACHED ITS LOWER PORTION.

TELL ME ABOUT SOME OF THE CHARACTERS, WHO STANDS OUT IN YOUR MIND?

>> LITTLE FALLS, LET ME JUST BACK UP A LITTLE BIT.

LITTLE FALLS IS ONE OF THE FEW PLACES ON THE RIVER I THINK THAT REALLY TAKES ADVANTAGE OF THE RIVER'S BEAUTY.

I MEAN, EVERYTHING AT LITTLE FALLS FACES THE RIVER.

SO YOU SEE IT, YOU ENJOY IT.

AND NICK BEATTY, WHO HIS GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GRANDFATHER OWNED A CARPET MILL, IT'S NOW A CONDOMINIUM.

IT'S A BEAUTIFUL LOCATION, BEAUTIFULLY CITED.

HE TOLD THIS GREAT STORY ABOUT BEING NERDY KIDS, HE AND HIS BROTHER AND A COUPLE OF FRIENDS FROM NEW YORK, SPENDING THEIR SUMMERS AT THE FAMILY BUSINESS IN LITTLE FALLS AND THEY WOULD HAVE THESE ADVENTURES ON THE RIVER.

OF COURSE, COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN MY EXPERIENCE OF THE RIVER.

>> RIGHT.

>> BUT ONE OF THE THINGS HE SAID THAT WAS SO SOULFUL.

HE SAID SOME PEOPLE GO TO GRAVEYARDS AND, YOU KNOW, BUT WHENEVER I'M HERE, I COME BACK TO THIS PLACE, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE RIVER IS ALWAYS HERE, AND IT BRINGS BACK MEMORIES.

AND THAT, TO ME, CONNECTS ME WITH MY FAMILY.

AND THAT WAS LIKE A REALLY SORT OF BEAUTIFUL PIECE.

AND I ALSO LOVED DOWN AT THE LOWER END OF THE PASSAIC, ANNA BAP TISTA, TRANSLATED FOR HER PARENTS DURING ALL THESE PROTESTS AGAINST THE DIOXINE SPILLS.

TALKED ABOUT HOW IN ORDER TO SUCCEED AT CHANGING THINGS, GETTING THE RIVER CLEANED UP IN THIS INSTANCE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE RADICAL OPTIMISM.

I LOVE THAT TERM.

NOT THAT SORT OF LIKE POLY-ANNA THING LIKE IT'S ALL GOING TO BE OKAY, YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.

YOU CAN'T JUST SAY IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> SCOTT, THE TRAGIC PART, AND THE MOST HOPEFUL PART OF THIS FILM TALKS ABOUT THE LOWER SECTION OF THE RIVER, WHICH HAS BEEN THE MOST EXPLOITED, AND ABUSED, BUT IS ALSO REALLY THE SITE OF THE GREAT HOPE FOR THE FUTURE, YEAH?

>> YES.

AND CERTAINLY THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, GOING TO BE PART OF THE STORY FROM THE VERY BEGINNING AND WE KNEW THAT THE KAYAK TRIP WAS HEADED FOR A DISASTER ZONE, REALLY, ONE OF THE MOST POLLUTED PLACES IN THE COUNTRY.

BUT THAT THAT WAS A COMMUNITY THERE, NAMELY THE IRON BOUND COMMUNITY, WHICH WAS -- WHO REALLY HEROIC, AND AS MARY HAS DESCRIBED THEM, IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE -- THEY FORMED A BEACHHEAD TO FIGHT THE BAD GUYS BUT THEY JUST SORT OF, OVER DECADES, RESISTED, AND HELPED FORM ALL OF THE EFFORTS THAT WENT INTO CLEANING UP THE RIVER, CREATING THAT BEAUTIFUL PARK THAT'S THERE, AND WE INTERVIEW A LOT OF PEOPLE DOWN THERE.

THOSE WERE REALLY POSITIVE MOMENTS IN THE FILM.

>> AND YOU TWO WILL BE IN NEWARK NEXT WEEK.

MARY, TELL US ABOUT THE EVENT THAT'S COMING UP AT NJ PACK.

>> I'M TOTALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS.

THE FILM WILL SCREEN AT THE NEW JERSEY PERFORMING ARTS CENTER IN NEWARK ON JANUARY 20th.

TICKETS ARE $5.

THE SCREENING IS AT 7:00 P.M.

THEY'RE SELL CK LIKE HOT CAKES.

GET OUT THERE AND GET SOME.

SCOTT AND I AND CARL ALSO WILL BE ON HAND AFTERWARDS FOR QUESTION AND ANSWER WITH THE AUDIENCE.

AND, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, BECAUSE NEWARK IS SO CENTRAL TO THE STORY, AND I WAS BORN IN NEWARK, SO I FEEL PARTICULARLY CONNECTED TO IT.

THAT'S GOING TO BE A REALLY EXCITING SCREENING FOR ALL OF US.

I HOPE EVERYBODY CAN COME.

>> ALL RIGHT, MARY BRUNO IS ALL OF US, AND SCOTT MORRIS IS THE PRODUCER, DIRECTOR OF "AN AMERICAN RIVER," GREAT TO SEE YOU BOTH, THANKS FOR COMING ON WITH US.

>> THANK YOU, DAVID.

>> AND THAT'S CHAT BOX FOR THIS WEEK.

THANKS, ALSO, TO JACK CIATTARELLI FOR JOINING US, FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER SPT AT DAVID CRUZ NJ, AND, THANKS FOR WATCHING, I'M DAVID CRUZ.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>> Announcer: MAJOR FUNDING FOR "CHAT BOX WITH DAVID CRUZ" IS PROVIDED BY NJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY INSIDER NJ, A POLITICAL INTELLIGENCE NETWORK DEDICATED TO NEW JERSEY POLITICAL NEWS.

INSIDER NJ IS COMMITTED TO GIVING SERIOUS POLITICAL PLAYERS AN INTERACTIVE FORUM FOR IDEAS, DISCUSSION, AND INSIGHT.

ONLINE AT INSIDERNJ.COM.

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