[upbeat music] - Hello everyone, how are you?

This, welcome to the Filmmaker Conversation as a part of Blackness Revisualized, the Afrofuturist Film Festival that has been produced by allarts.org and WNET13 in New York.

I'm really excited to be here today.

Really excited about the guests that we have on deck.

I'm gonna go through and introduce everyone.

And then we're gonna dive into some questions and we're gonna talk about the two films that are kind of our focus for this one's conversation.

So, first up we have actor Morocco Omari, who is currently starring on "P-Valley" correct?

And we have writer, director, Keith Josef Atkins, who is also the film maker responsible for "The Abandon," one of the films that we're featuring today, this month.

We have Seth Shostak who's with SETI, the Search for Extra Terrestrial, help me Seth.

- Intelligence.

- Intelligence.

All right ET, right, SETI, S-E-T-I, Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence.

We have Jervaughn Hunter who is with UC San Diego.

He is a bioengineering, Sloan scholar.

We also have actor April Mathis, who is the star of "Roxe15," which is the other film that we're gonna be talking about today.

So, first of all, I'm gonna give a little brief overview of the two films because they're both available for streaming right now on allarts.org.

Keith's film "The Abandon" actually screened on WNET, it's today, right?

It's tonight, actually didn't happen already, it's tonight.

So if you're in the New York metropolitan area, please tune in to channel 13 and catch "The Abandon" live on broadcast.

So "The Abandon" is a short film, about five friends who, five guys who were friends who go on an annual hiking trip and things take a turn when they learn that a global event has changed the world.

So then they must navigate their inter personal dramas, as well as trying to survive.

The other film that we're gonna talk about is actually my film and it's called "Roxe15."

And "Roxe15" is about a prodigy, I guess she's, some say she's a high strong prodigy who bets her future on technology, but when a virus infects her prized software and comes after her, saving her life's work also means saving herself.

So we have these themes that we're gonna deal with.

And we, luckily we have a couple of scientists who are gonna weigh in on some of the themes that are in the film, so sit back and enjoy.

And then at the end, we're gonna have time for your questions.

So please, if things come up for you along the way, throw your questions in the chat and we'll get to as many as we can.

So, first of all, I'm gonna, my first question is gonna be for Keith.

What was the catalyst for making "The Abandon?"

And how did you connect to your cast which is fantastic.

Can you talk a little bit about the cast as well?

- Oh, absolutely, yeah.

So, I'm one of those people who grew up watching reruns of "Star Trek," "Lost in Space," all the sort of like, you know, outer worldly series.

Didn't really think I had any interest in it as an adult.

I just thought like something, it was just like something that I liked and, but then I, after seeing so many films and so many series around sort of like alien invasions and centering white folks, I was like, "Why are there no black people centered to global apocalypse?"

Like we are dealing with the world, just like everybody else, if not even extra more, right.

So, I just had this idea to create this web series about a group of friends, a group of black friends.

And ultimately there were, it started off with black men and then ultimately the black women sort of got folded into the storytelling.

And I pitched that to a couple of, sort of high end studio folks.

And they all said it was impossible.

They said it's a great idea, but it was impossible to have any success with an apocalyptic story centering around people of color, particularly black people, 'cause they said black people did not watch sci-fi.

And I'm like, "Why?"

I know at least 500 black people I could walk up to right now in the streets of Harlem and they will say, "All I do is watch sci-fi."

So anyway, I decided to take matters into my own hands.

Something I like to do and I pulled together some friends of mine.

So Morocco is someone I've known for, like you said earlier, for quite some time.

We kind of came into the game at around the same time Sterling as well, my friend Jordan Mahome.

Jaimie Lincoln Smith, Billy Eugene Jones, all theater actors, all phenomenal theater actors, phenomenal, right.

And then I asked them, I just called them up, texted them, they were like, they all said yes within seconds.

Didn't really know really what I was trying to do, but they were just game, which I so appreciated.

And that's how that all happened.

It was really important to me to have a story that centered around black people in particular, but black men even more specifically, when it comes to an alien invasion, end of the world.

What is their POV?

How do they unpack their own lives?

How do they, what do they think about the world as it's collapsing?

Does it matter as much as it did before?

All of those things right.

And, I'll say this last thing.

So initially it was supposed to be a web series.

I had a couple of producers throw all kind of money at me.

They fell apart, that all fell apart, which happens often.

And so I was left with the pilot, which I just sort of like transformed, reshaped into a singular short film.

- And thank goodness that you did.

I mean, I'm sorry that the pilot didn't go where you wanted, but I still think, I mean, I've curated "The Abandon" a few times now and I love the film and I also, I think I told you, I use it when I'm teaching as well.

I think that it's such a, I mean, I really dig it.

I love it and it's fresh too, because I think having this perspective of focusing on black male friendship is something that is highly missing.

And it's not just, it's a real portrayal of friendship, the ups and downs and the ins and outs and the emotions are there.

So with that, I'm gonna move to Morocco and without spoiling okay, 'cause we want people to watch the film, we're gonna talk about Dennis, your character.

Dennis is, I think it's fair to say, a hyper masculine guy, but he has this Achilles heel.

And so I wonder if you could tell us, first of all, how does Dennis feel about having this Achilles heel and how did you approach portraying this complex, multi-dimensional guy?

- I mean, the beautiful thing about Keith's writing is he, for any actor to just like, "Oh, okay, it's really right there in the script."

So the backstory was easy to create and every character that he wrote has a flaw.

So you take that flaw and you examine, "Okay, what is it like to have this kind of ailment or sickness or whatever?"

And then you break it down and then you just add it on and layer the character that's already layered and you just sprinkle it in.

And I like playing flawed characters, because no one is perfect.

We're all working through something in our lives at some point in our lives, which makes you either root for the character, either the character's gonna give up or he's gonna keep on fighting until he overcomes whatever obstacle that's in this place.

So for me, it's always good to have, because like Keith said, you don't really, when you see actors of color in certain types of genres of films, you don't really see their life.

They come in, they deliver their lines and they keep it moving.

You don't know what their life is like.

You don't see their families, You don't know what they're dealing with.

So they don't have a whole lot that, so for us as an actor, when you get that kind of meat, you're like, "Oh, I'm glad to at this table so I can just, chew it up."

So I enjoyed it and like I said, we're all perfectly imperfect and we're fighting.

- Absolutely and I think you really like crushed it because I feel like Dennis is one of those characters that brings out a visceral reaction.

You know what I mean?

Like you feel like, he's a guy that you can hate, but then at the same time, there is undeniable, like his humanity is undeniable.

And that I think is the thing about villains.

If you wanna call him a villain, but is that they have layers.

They do have dimensions just like, as you said, human beings do, that's all of us.

So I'm gonna move on and ask Seth some questions, because this global event happens in "The Abandon" and it's something that I think people both imagine and fear and really speculate about.

And I think as time goes on and we have more and more thoughts around this.

So first of all Seth, can you talk about SETI and tell us what the mission of SETI is?

- Well, the SETI Institute, which is all around me.

I'm here in California, but Northern California, which is a good thing because the aliens seem to preferentially want to destroy Southern California.

Which is okay by me.

I mean, I don't care if L.A. gets flattened, it's all right.

But yeah, the SETI Institute is a non-profit research organization.

So we have about a hundred scientists here and they're interested in life and space, but almost all of them are looking for life in space that isn't deep space.

It's just our own solar system, maybe on Mars, some of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn.

So that's what most of them do here.

They're, as I say, roughly a hundred.

There's a small group, it's only small for reasons of finance that's interested in the kind of aliens you see on television or in Keith's films, although you don't actually see them there, but the kind of aliens that can hold up their side of the conversation, right.

That the intelligent aliens that are here, either for malevolent purposes or to rejuvenate folks in an old folks home or whatever they've come here to do.

Yeah, so that's the group that I've been a part of, which is to say Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence.

And by the way, intelligence means you can build a radio transmitter.

That's all we ask.

They don't have to write poetry.

- So, in recent years, very recent years, the U.S. military has taken the shocking step of acknowledging and investigating contact between military personnel and what they call UAPs, Unidentified Aerial Phenomena.

So, we've seen the release of tapes from the Navy where there are these crafts we hear the military people kind of wondering like what the F is this, or what the blank is this?

Have these disclosures changed SETI's work at all?

Or influenced it at all?

Or is this what you were already doing?

- No, it's not what we were doing.

And it hasn't changed anything except for the fact that, now people will come up to me at parties and occasionally volunteer some conversation.

They never did that before.

So I guess there's that.

But Celia, I know this is gonna disappoint everybody, but I don't think the aliens actually are visiting us.

One out of three Americans think that's true.

One out of three.

So a hundred million of your fellow Americans think that we're being visited.

The aliens are here either to, oh well, as I already suggested flatten L.A. or go on to abduct you for experiments your mom would never have approved of.

So that's the popular point of view.

The release of these videos, wasn't that they were secret, actually, none of that was secret, but the military is interested, in anything that's flying around our airspace for obvious reasons, so they're gonna look at it.

And they're very cagey about what they tell you about their investigations because, they involve the capabilities of our military aircraft, the Navy fighter jets.

And so, they don't wanna sort of tip their hand to potential adversaries by saying, "Well, I had this kind of camera and that kind of camera."

So they're kind of cagey, but honestly I think if we were being visited, you would know it.

I mean, ask the people down in Mexico, well, ask the the inkers down in Peru.

"Hey, do you think you're being visited by Europeans in 1535?"

There was no doubt in their mind about that.

- I see, I see, I get you.

Well, we'll come back, we'll come back to that for sure.

So April, let's talk a little bit about "Roxe15."

And for the audience, I wanna sort of specify that the kind of prodigy that Roxe is, she is a virtual reality programmer.

So she's creating virtual reality that she's going in and out of herself as she works on it.

So Roxe is, she's brilliant, but she's also a very tough cookie.

And for you, what did Roxe want for herself and in all the stuff that she was dealing with, how does she keep her eyes on the prize?

- I think what you see about Roxe is that she's really smart and quick.

And so a lot of times people like that don't have a lot of time for the niceties and politeness.

Like, she shows up late to her meeting with the execs or whatever, the people behind the desk.

And it's like, she, I think like a lot of programming, like intellectual type folks would rather just be working on their project.

And I think she is obsessed with the learning module.

And that's kind of like the most important thing that she sees for herself.

She works in this bar and she used to deal with like gross people, like the guy who harasses her on the other side of the bar, but you know, she can handle herself.

But, she doesn't wanna have to have a day job.

She wants to be able to do this work that she knows that she's capable of doing.

Now, whether she can get it done in the timeframe that is demanded of her, is mind exploding and frustrating because I think she wants to get this right.

And that's where part of the frustration comes from.

But yeah, she's someone who is obsessed with the possibilities of the mind.

And I think she just wants that direct connection to be able to explore what this kind of program can do.

- That's so funny hearing you say that, talk about her obsession and her relationships who, her day job.

It's just sort of hitting me now how much of a thing that is such familiar territory to creatives living in New York.

I mean, that was all of us, right.

It's just like you have this day job to pay rent and pay bills but you really just wanna do your thing.

That's really funny.

So I have another question for you then.

Is technology friend or foe?

And if you could immerse yourself in a virtual world, would you do it?

Why or why not?

- I think technology is a fact.

And I've been thinking about this a lot, especially now during the pandemic.

I mean, look at us but, and this was supposed to be hot vax summer and look at us, like it's still kinda like, "Let's keep doing Zoom when we need to."

And it's great, 'cause it's, can be national and international.

But I'm also a parent and we think a lot about screen time and like are children too attached to technology.

But I think I can hold in my head that it is a natural extension of human consciousness.

That being said, do I not need to go outside and put my feet in the ocean?

No, of course I want like tangible things.

I miss traveling.

I got to travel to France this month and that was glorious.

And you know, it just makes the wanderlust, like everything's still here.

I wanna go to it.

There are advantages to living in a virtual world.

Like I can kind of curate what you see and you know, like, do I have pants?

No one knows now, no one's gonna find out.

But, yeah, I think it's a tool that has a purpose.

And then hopefully we don't destroy the tangible world enough so we can enjoy it 'cause it's nice.

- Yeah, I guess it's like fire, right?

You can use it to heat yourself up and stay alive or you can use it to burn everything down.

Hopefully, yeah, we make the right choice.

So, I wanna talk to Jervaughn.

We have Jervaughn Hunter who is a PhD candidate and researcher at UC San Diego, who is working in the area of bioengineering.

And Jervaughn in "Roxe15," we have this situation where, basically the software that the main character is working on, becomes infected with a virus.

And so that came from me being interested in virtual space versus physical space.

And where is that interface?

Like where do they kind of come together and overlap, et cetera.

And so, that's why I wanted to have a bioengineer on board to talk to us, but first, let's hear about your journey to this field.

How did you or why did you become a bioengineer?

What was the spark for you?

- Sure, thanks Celia.

Well, so bioengineering, I had no idea what it was.

So I'm a country boy, small town Mississippi.

So that's why I'm pretty hyped to be on here with somebody who's starring in "P-Valley."

But yeah, I grew up in small town, Mississippi.

I was graduated from high school in 2012 actually.

So, I got a brochure from the University of Alabama, Birmingham, and I saw biomedical engineering as a degree choice.

So I was like, I don't know what that is.

I've heard of mechanical, I've heard of aerospace, all the standard engineering that you'd hear of, but you never heard of biomedical.

So I was like, what do I do with this?

How do you find out how to get into this?

I don't know any black people that do this, but what, what is this about?

So when you think bioengineering, biomedical engineering, I think I probably was in the same thought process that you might've been in Celia thinking of things like prosthetics or neuro interfaces and things like that, where you are interfacing the body or anything biology with technology.

So I thought that was really cool.

And I was like, "I don't know anybody who does this, so why not take that leap to try to attempt it."

So finished up my studies in Birmingham and decided, you know, "I'm really interested in the healthcare side of this."

So again, biomedical engineering and I wanted to work on things like heart failure.

So people, heart attacks are the number one killer of people throughout the world, not even a nation.

So I was like, how do you actually go and engineer the body such that it heals itself from these damages that happen, or damage that happens to the heart after some type of ischemic damage like heart attack.

So ended up working in tissue engineering.

So I'm a bioengineer with a focus on tissue engineering, where you engineer the human body's tissues, or you have a focus on regenerative medicine to get the body to regenerate itself.

So currently I'm using a natural material made out of pig hearts ironically.

And we can take that material that we take from this pig heart and turn it into a hydro gel.

So think of something like jello, inject that into the heart.

And we have some data that does show that these patients were mitigating their heart failure.

So they were still progressing, but not as badly.

So you were prolonging, giving people better qualities of life or prolonging the progression into heart failure.

So of course we know the total cure for most heart failure is heart transplant.

So if we can get some type of regenerative therapy to kind of help us not be as reliant on heart transplants, I think we can save a lot of lives.

So that's what got me interested in bioengineering, biomedical engineering.

You asked another question, if you mind repeating it one more time.

- I just asked what was the spark for you, but that, your answer, wow, I'm sitting here like blown away.

That's amazing.

And I remember when you first told me the specifics of what you were working on, you gave me like this real quick sort of summary, which was already amazing, but this is just like kind of mind blowing actually.

So in your view then, I kind of asked you this before, but in your view, how close is science to creating a digital replication of human cells?

- So as far as a digital replication of human cells, I don't think it's that far off.

We digitally replicate biology all the time.

Think about artificial intelligence as in such.

Even though to me, that's more on the computer scientist side and I didn't spend much of my time on that side of studies, but yeah, we definitely, if you think of things like artificial intelligence, if you wanna think about, your DNA is practically computer code.

If you wanna think about it in a sense, your DNA programs, well your DNA is the code for which your cells create proteins, which in turn create the rest of what's happening in your body.

So it's, if you're working with a code like DNA, I'm almost certain that we're not too far off from being able to digitally replicate human cells or even, cells altogether.

- Wow, okay.

Hold that thought please.

And so I'm gonna go back to you Keith.

As, I mean, you work a lot and you do a lot of work at a very, very high level, as a black entertainment professional, what do you prioritize right now?

- Whoa, okay.

That's a really good question.

Right now, as opposed to what five years ago, or?

- Yeah, or maybe at the beginning of your career.

- Got it.

Well, you know, I think at this point what's really important for me, particularly, 'cause I've worked in television and also for some film capacity, but when I'm being interviewed, for example for a television series and more often than not, there is some sort of cultural element to that series that I'm sort of set up to meet with these people because I'm black or there's some element of the storytelling that's gonna be a black person or something like that, right.

So for me, it's very important that I enter that space, knowing that the people involved in creating this show have a real high regard and understanding about the complex black experience.

Like it's really important to me that I'm not walking into these spaces, having to be an educator, having to be the person that they push the button and say, "Okay Keith, now speak, we're talking about the black storyline."

That to me is extremely important because it happens often.

And also with black story, like it's very important for me if I'm being interviewed for a black story or black series, that there's also a level of high regard for complexity as well, because often you also walk into black spaces and it's sort of two dimensional.

We're only gonna focus on class.

We're only gonna vilify the rich, things like that.

And for me, it's very important that I'm gonna be a part of something that humanizes people, humanizes black people.

If we're not necessarily centered to the storytelling, that when we are present that we are three dimensional, we react to things, we have a POV that is potent, which is what, sort of Rocc was talking about earlier, as far as "The Abandon," like one are the reasons, I even wanted to like put black men together in that film was because there was a lack of three dimensionality in sort of black character, in many, many things.

And they're usually killed in the first five seconds or they're like holding the hand of the main character to the very end and then they risk their own lives, for the white cars or the white future.

And so for me, like it's really hyper important that I step into any space or even in my own work, and I'm doing three dimensional examination of our people because we are here and we have been three dimensional from day one and we gonna lead that way.

- Celia, do you mind if I comment on, - Sure, go ahead.

- Yeah, I just wanted to commend Keith.

I really did enjoy the first few minutes of that film, especially it just reminded me of riding around, out with my homeboys and stuff like that.

Just like, the banter, the random it's like, I felt like these are some dudes that I met, like growing up or in college or something like that.

So, oh, I can relate, I feel comfortable.

And it didn't, they didn't have to be like, lower class, middle class, upper class, you couldn't tell, well you could hear what some of their professionals were, but regardless of all of that, you could tell, these were just like four number dudes in the car, just shooting it with each other.

So I just wanted to comment and say thank you for that.

I really liked that part.

- Oh cool, I appreciate that.

- So, I'm gonna ask Morocco then, we're gonna shift a little bit.

Can you tell us based on your observations and your experiences, how do you think that men's friendships are different than women's friendships?

And then also, regardless of gender, what does friendship mean to you?

- Wow, I don't know if I'm able to answer the difference between men friendships and women friendships, you know it's, in regards to friendships, I believe that, they're like, they're family members.

You collect, like I collect beautiful souls and spirits, you know what I mean?

And if I vibe with you, then you're my family.

We argue, we debate, we hold our friends accountable and we defend our friends in private.

No matter how wrong you are, I'ma tell you you're wrong, because you're my brother, you're my sister.

You know what I'm saying?

So the dynamics for friendship, isn't really, for me, a gender thing because I have beautiful friends that are women as well as men and we can hang, we can go, sit up and talk politics, traveling or whatever.

So it's not really like, I think friendship goes beyond gender in my case.

And like I say, I just, your vibe attracts your tribe.

It's one of those things.

And sometimes we grow out of friendships.

The friends that I grew up in Chicago.

So there are friends that I grew up with that, we barely speak, but when we do, it's like we catch up, but we've grown differently.

But that's a chapter in your life.

And I mean, then there are friends that I grew up with that are still my friends today.

Once, I went by my old neighborhood and some friends jumped out and I was like, "Oh, whoa," they were kinda hardened, hardened by life.

I saw the guns and I was like, "Hey, how y'all doing?"

But when you grow up, like growing up on the west side of Chicago, that was my normal.

And luckily I kinda transitioned through life, you take your path, we all have a path in life that we take.

And we, like I said, you collect different friends along the way and you just, some of us grow and some of us don't.

So, I can't really answer how male and female friendships differentiate because I can only speak from my point of view.

- Right on, I'm with you.

I mean, actually, and I love your truth telling because you're right.

Some people grow, some people don't and it's just, it is what it is.

- Yeah.

- Thank you for that.

Hopefully a lot of people heard you and will be thinking about that.

Their friendship, that connection is like chosen family.

April, I wanna ask you about craft and about acting.

I know that you do a lot, lot, lot of theater, and I wanted to ask you, first of all, how, why did you become an actor?

And how or have your feelings about the craft changed since you first started?

And would you do another sci-fi film?

- Yes, I would do another sci-fi film.

Please can I do another, sci-fi film, please?

I'm also a country girl from Texarkana, Texas, and it was kind of mind blowing to me that you could do this as a living, 'cause I didn't grow up seeing that.

My mom was a nurse, I grew up in a family of teachers and my grandfather was a chemist and a mathematician.

And I grew up in a church, black Southern Baptist church.

And so the only kind of performance I saw was really like, gospel singing in church, which I didn't feel like I had access to because that was about some kind of like ecstatic expression of a religious experience.

And if my performance didn't look like that, then I guess I'm not a performer.

But you know, as a child, I was very creative.

I would make up stories.

I would record like TV shows, like made up TV shows, made up sermons on like cassette tape and do different voices and things.

And have really elaborate play with my Barbie and Michael Jackson dolls and like soap operas.

So I was a generative kid, an improvisational kid.

And my family would improv with me.

We would like imitate racist cops and stuff, but we didn't think of that as like, "And this is called improv."

And so you need to join a sketch group, like that wasn't the thing that we took seriously.

So it wasn't until I got into college that I really started thinking about it and started doing community theater, 'cause it was available to me.

And from there, made the move to New York and started doing more theater and then some television and film.

But, I guess how my thoughts have changed is that I do have a bottom line.

I'm an adult, I'm not a, I think there's a misconception that actors are like perpetual children and free spirits and they would do it for free and they're not professionals and they're not adults and they don't deserve a living wage unless they are a famous person in Hollywood.

I don't think people have the concept really of the yeoman actor who might not be a household name, but they work and they're on this show for awhile.

Then they're not on a show.

Then they're on another show or they're doing theater somewhere.

Like there's a way to make a living as an artist.

And you might never be a household name, but you can put your kids through college.

You can like buy a home.

You can buy your mama a home.

And I, having been in this business for 20, some odd years, I have a deep respect for the profession as a profession.

And for myself as a crafts person.

I was an English major in school, 'cause I didn't study this and I think that has served me well.

I think the kind of actor I am is a generative, interpreter of work.

I feel like my acting is kind of authorship in a way.

And I think, yeah, it's just, it's not this thing of like, "Oh I just, I'm dramatic and that's why I'm an actor 'cause I love drama."

No, it's an intellectual pursuit of understanding human experience and observing human behavior and accessing it.

And so I just have like a lot more respect for that work.

I think that's the biggest change for me.

And so I wanna, the kind of work that attracts me is work that acknowledges that intelligence that we bring as artists.

- That's funny because April was in two of my short films, one of which was kind of the first, it wasn't the first short film that I did, but it was the first like sort of what felt to me like a real production.

And I didn't know you before that.

And I, but I had a sense even then, I don't know if you were doing theater, I guess you maybe were, you said you started in community, but I didn't know that about you, but I did get that feeling.

I totally had that vibe from you, which is really interesting to hear you say this.

So speaking of acting Seth, I wanna ask you, as you are an astronomer and as a scientist who works, with the stars and the cosmos, first of all, were you or are you familiar with Afrofuturism at all?

And then more broadly, what are your thoughts on science fiction as it existed and like the current state of science fiction and what is some sci-fi that you like if any.

- All right, well first tonight, I guess just a confession, I did not know anything about Afrofuturism.

And when I told people, including some who are in this room, as I speak to you, that I was going to be on this panel, their first question was, "Why you?"

And I have no good answer for that.

So, as far as science fiction goes, I mean, you could say that I'm actually sitting here because of science fiction, I was a great fan of it.

Every weekend, my parents would, drive me down to the movie theater in Alexandria, Virginia, and I would watch aliens land and do whatever they were gonna do.

And in fact it was, to me very obvious that they were all following the same basic script outline.

So by age 11, I, with another guy, we started making science fiction films.

So I've actually done that.

Nothing shot in 35 millimeter, nothing shot in HD or 4K or anything like that.

These were all eight millimeter and eventually 16 millimeter.

And we'd make these sci-fi films.

And they were all parodies because we learned right at the beginning that people are going to laugh at the films no matter what we were trying to do.

So we figured if they were gonna laugh, why don't we make comedy?

So we did that.

But, this is all personal stuff, nobody cares about this stuff.

Even my brother doesn't care about this stuff.

But I will say that, eventually, well, I think that sci-fi is very influential.

There is that.

And as far as what sci-fi is, it's been said, in sci-fi the hero is the story.

It's the, really the idea, because you can think back to the sci-fi films that I saw as a kid, right, this was just when they were still being made by Edison in Northern New Jersey.

They would have a, some sort of storyline, but it was always, it was always something clever about the storyline.

Somebody makes a mistake and terrible things happen, or they're just going for a weekend with their buddies and suddenly the alien start making them disappear for reasons that are never terribly clear.

So that's, it's the idea of what's happening.

And I, that's true.

I would see things like, there was a guy by the name of George Pal who was making films in the fifties and he was a puppeteer from Hungary as a matter of fact.

And he was a puppeteer.

He was a performer there.

But he knew how to of course, get scenes to work and stuff like that.

And he would take on the kind of classic sci-fi themes of, what happens if earth goes bad?

Can we escape?

Can some people escape and other people don't fit on the rocket ship and that kind of thing.

But mostly it was about indeed, aliens who come to earth and have some interaction.

And almost always it was a malevolent interaction, but not necessarily.

I mean, there were, some films where the agents actually came down and helped, and then there was one other category.

And that was, it was the atomic age.

There was a time when Adams were, the atomic physics was going to be the future of us, right.

You remember that and Adams for society, Adams for peace, Adams for this, that, Adams for whatever.

And so, but the movie industry saw this kind of development is actually very malevolent and they would start the film with some adult atomic test in Nevada.

There was a guy, what's his name?

Arnold, think it was his first name.

Anyhow, he was the one who demonized the deserts.

You know, when I was a kid, the aliens were interested in, destroying Manhattan, right.

Which, just makes more parking for people who live in New Jersey, I suppose.

But they took on the city of the east coast, right.

But this guy moved all the action to the deserts of the west.

And I think, Jack Arnold was his name.

And I think part of it was that, it was cheap to shoot there, but there was something else.

And that was, the desert was kind of empty and terrible things could happen there.

And if you had an atomic test, maybe would cause mutations in ants that are running around the ground, they turn out to be ants that are eight feet high at the shoulder and of course, what do they do?

They immediately fly to Los Angeles, invade the sewers and begin to ruin everybody's day.

These were the kind of stories that I grew up with and they were very simple stories.

They were very simple stories, but they explored a possibility that you weren't likely to see in your life.

- So then can I ask you really quick, what is, is there anything in sci-fi now that you like?

Any film, any TV series?

- Well, I still go to the site.

I haven't been to movies in more than a year now, but I still try and go to all the sci-fi films I can.

Actually I even write reviews of them for various publications.

And we saw the "Arrival" again, or I think it's just "Arrival" without-- - "Arrival."

- "Arrival," yeah right, the England's come down of, the characters try to teach them English or something like that.

They look like giant squid actually.

In fact, I worked at, you could get 2000 servings of sushi from each one of those aliens.

So I figured that the Japanese will start farming them and then serving them up.

I figured that's where that was going, but it was a different idea.

The aliens came down here to communicate with us and they had this ability to travel on time and all that.

But the real point was that they came down and they weren't gonna destroy things.

So that was new.

Also the one made in South Africa, District 11 or 9 or, some district, right.

- I think it's "District 9," I believe.

- "District 9," yeah.

I remember, I happened to be in South Africa actually just before the film came out and everywhere were these ads for "District 9" and they were very clever about it.

They didn't tell you what the film was gonna be about.

But anyhow, so these seafood creatures come down, once again, seafood creatures and there was a different take.

So I like it when they have a different take.

And I also have to say, again when I was a kid, the scientists in these films were short, little bald guys in a white lab coat, always trying to save the creature.

Whereas, the sexy looking guy who was usually a reporter or something like that, the guy who got the woman at the end, he was always saying, "No, we've got to destroy it because otherwise it's gonna take on," I don't know Park Slope or something.

I mean, it's gonna do terrible things.

And so that's a refreshing change 'cause today, often the scientists are actually the heroes.

- Right, this is true, this is true.

And to just, I'm sure that you did a little research, but in essence, I mean Afrofuturism means many things to many different people, but it is essentially a genre of storytelling and other dimensions as well.

But within the creative realm where black people are not only present in the future, but are determining their futures and there are many, many different expressions of Afrofuturism, depending on, as many different expressions of sci-fi as there are.

I mean, there are many different sub-genres.

And so with Afrofuturism, depending on where someone lives, what their culture is, perhaps their generation, it means many different things.

But this idea of agency for black characters, because for so long, particularly in the United States, we can say for sure, when we see stories of the future, black people and other people of color, are not, have not been present traditionally.

And obviously "Star Trek" was a huge, was a huge exception to that rule.

So with that, I mean, we're gonna soon go to questions from the audience, but I do wanna go, I do want to go around and ask everyone a particular question.

So I'm gonna go back to Morocco, what is your first memory of Afrofuturism or of sci-fi?

And or sci-fi?

- I mean, of course, like television.

But I was doing a play in Chicago and this woman brought me this book by Tananarive Due "My Soul to Keep."

She's like, "Oh, you can play this character, play this character."

I'm like, "Ah, this woman's trying to flirt with me, men.

Thank you, sister."

You know what I'm saying?

Just that whole actory thing, like yeah, "You know, I did my thing on stage."

But she kept like, she kept that, it's like, "Did you read the book?

Did you?"

She came, she saw the play like three times and she kept asking me, "Did you read the book?"

And I was like, "Nah, nah, haven't read the book.

I don't have time, I'm on this, I'm still on this script, just studying the script."

So I finally opened the book and I was like, oh, I was blown away.

And this had to be late nineties and I was blown away.

And I read about, 'cause she has Lalibela Ethiopian, and I was like, "Oh, I gotta see this place."

It had me researching the stone churches of Ethiopia.

And I was like, "I gotta go see it."

I had and I was fortunate enough to go and see the stone churches of Lalibela in like 2014.

But I was like, how she incorporated all this history and this immortality and I was just blown away by it.

And, I think, Keith we need to kinda do this as a series or something like that.

And just go, "It's out there-- - Yay, you heard it here first.

- I know Tananarive, we all know Tananarive, most of [indistinct] - Yeah and it's just, it was exceptional and you just, you kind of fall down the rabbit hole of that and, so that was my introduction to it.

- Okay and I'm gonna ask you really quickly, what would you do if there were an alien invasion?

- Man, hopefully I have a great bottle of tequila and I can offer shots.

What are you gonna do?

You know what I'm saying?

Like, what are you gonna do?

I mean what do people think they're gonna do?

So it's just like, I'm a ex Marine, I served in a war.

It's like, if they come down, what are you gonna do, man, realistically?

We can say, "Oh, I'ma do this and that."

You're just like, "Yeah, all right cool," yeah.

- Good answer.

So I'm gonna go to Jervaughn and ask you the same couple of questions.

One, what does Afrofuturism and, or sci-fi mean to you?

And what would you do if the aliens came to San Diego right now?

- So well with Afrofuturism, as you mentioned before, it's actually seeing people or black people in spaces, in sci-fi realms and futuristic spaces period.

I mean, if you think of The Jetsons, they thought we'd be in the sky or something year 2000 blah, blah, blah.

But the future changes all the time.

So you have to think about how we as a people end up changing too and guess what?

We're not just dying off, we'll be there.

So yeah, that's what Afrofuturism kind of means to me, what we will be doing, how we'll be taking those spaces, how we'll be influencing spaces in future realms.

So that's kind of what Afrofuturism means to me.

Obviously I like sci-fi, nerdy kid, I'm a scientist.

I think the first sci-fi films and things, I can't remember of course "Jurassic Park" or "Deep Blue Sea" is one of my favorites.

So yeah, I can remember a lot of creature centric sci-fi films.

So yeah, I do definitely recall thinking of a lot, a few of my favorite recently that kind of tie into the whole Afrocentric theme or like Lovecraft Country and the Watchman series that they did.

I really hate that both of those were canceled 'cause I've enjoyed both of them.

So yeah, as recent as those two have been my favorite.

As Morocco mentioned, - "The Abandon."

- Yeah, as Morocco mentioned, what are we gonna do?

Like, I would love to be in Mississippi and ride it out for a little bit, 'cause you know, they're gonna hit us last.

And they're like, "Oh, I didn't even know there was a spot."

We might make it, they say, "We forgot Mississippi was there."

But now since I'm here, I'll probably, you know the ocean's right there.

Give me a shot of tequila, pull up a lawn chair to allow them to.

- Right on.

So I'm gonna ask April the same couple of questions.

What does Afrofuturism mean to you and, or sci-fi?

And what would you do if the aliens land on New York City?

- Okay, been thinking about this.

Afrofuturism to me is just a way to think about the black narrative without trauma and without like the Western narrative of oppression.

And a lot of it does refer back to like ancient African mysticism and things like cosmology and those kinds of beliefs that a lot of us and I mean, me, did not learn in school.

And don't really have a reference for.

And, I just think reasonably about people thinking like, "Oh, the pyramids must have been built by aliens because like Egyptians could never."

It's like, "Well, what do you know really?"

And where does that assumption come from?

But yeah, there's, it's something that feels like an opportunity to rewrite what this means.

And that can be as broad as your imagination.

And it doesn't have to be into these Western tropes of like an alien with a funny hat on and, or a funny nose or funny skin.

And he's gonna try to get you.

It's like, what are you?

Like, what is consciousness?

What is the universe?

Like, it just explodes, thought about life and the universe in a way that's just thrilling and freeing and doesn't have the like codified rules that we're interested, that we're used to.

And it doesn't have to be linear.

It can be any shape, it can be any direction.

It can be multi-directional and Celia, you've actually introduced me to more of like the short films in like screenings and things that we've done.

And it's just, it really is mind blowing in the most, I would almost say literal sense.

It's just not there, it can be anything.

And that's what's it's so freeing about it.

- Yeah, I think when you sort of take away all of the assumptions that in the west, that we have about otherness and what otherness is.

Because if we're talking about intelligence from outside of this solar system, outside of this planet even, whatever this sense of otherness is, is absolutely irrelevant, it's just absolutely [indistinct] And I think that's a huge thing because it's been so ingrained.

So tell us really quick, the invasion.

- Okay, I've learned in the last year and a half, listen to scientists.

So I think we would get very interested in the person who, if they're crustacean like, who were the crustacean experts?

Let's listen to them and it's real easy for me to get existential.

So I would just be in my existential place with like, what are we trying to learn?

And why do we assume malevolence?

Like what can this exchange be?

How can we be useful?

What makes us think that we're superior, intellectually or otherwise?

Or like in the importance of the universe anyway, like what is that about even?

Maybe this is like the universe taking care of itself.

But like now here's this other thing that's gonna be defined in its own image.

So, I would just be really kind of open and listening and maybe also become a bunker homesteader and pray and get a large collection of wine.

- That sounds like a good plan, absolutely.

Keith, can you talk to us a little bit about what Afrofuturism means to you and also what you would do in the event of this momentous arrival of extraterrestrials?

- I'm glad it's momentous.

Yeah, I mean, I have so many things to say, oh my God, but I will say this, I will say that Afrofuturism, which I think what April was sort of tapping into has been around forever, right.

And I think in particular, for me, it's, I'm looking at it through the lens of a new world, black experience, being a descendants of enslaved people in this country.

And even like earlier on, the mysticism that they brought across that middle passage showed up in churches where they were able to transport themselves spiritually out of the trauma that was around them and find this other place in the future, or either in the past that sustain their complexity, right.

So to me, it's like, that's how I'm looking at it and that's what I think about often.

And that's why I think for me, like sort of new world storytelling is about like returning to that original, pure mysticism, that sort of place where we were complex, where despite challenges, despite imperfections, which Morocco was talking about earlier, there was still a sense of paradise, right, that we all sort of like informing the paradise by our complexity.

So for me, like after futurism and I thank you too Celia, because I think that you are one of the major custodians right now that's keeping Afrofuturism in the minds and on the screens, right.

Like, I so appreciate you for that.

And I think it's also important that, Steven was mentioning sort of like the old sort of templates of how sci-fi existed.

And I think that's another reason why Afrofuturism is so important is because we were absent in those.

We weren't even thought about.

In fact, there's some theory and documented theory that we, black people were alien.

We were the aliens in the imagination of whiteness during that time, right.

I think Toni Morrison talks about that, other people.

And so for me, people like Tananarive Due who was writing horror and sort of sci-fi, N.K.

Jemisin, who is the sort of new black sci-fi person.

And for example like I'm, lucky enough, thank God, and I can't say too much about it, but I am developing one of her novels for, you know how they do outta here, for a Hollywood system thing.

But anyway, in that novel, there is an alien invasion, but the alien invasion in N.K.

Jemisin's mind and in the story is homogenization, it's the same-in of the world, right.

Making everything the same.

That's the alien sort of mission, is that we want the whole thing to be the same.

And anybody who's out here trying to penetrates sameness by doing something original or different is the enemy.

And so in this story that I'm adapting for television, New York City is one of the last cities that's holding on to different, holding on to idiosyncrasy as a culture.

And so the aliens target them because they're like, "No we can't have that happen, right."

So it's so great because like the voices of gender equity and queer equity and black equity and Latinidad all of that represents the things that the aliens hate.

So for me, like that's part of the Afrofuturism, sort of like thing that's happening.

What's that, I wanna be a part of it.

I wanna be, I wanna see more of it, you know?

So I wanted to say all that, but also as far as like, I'm a Capricorn, so I'm a task master, I'm a game, I'm trying to like plan the game, how we gon do it?

So if there was an alien innovation, I also wanted to say this before I say that, the last thing I wanna say about aliens, there are some conversations in the spiritual, intuitive community that the aliens are here, that when you think about human behavior, there's certain human behavior on the planet that does things that are against the planet, right.

It's like in argument against what is natural to the system of how this planet works.

And so some people call, whoever those people are, alien or the people who are trying to sustain the beauty of the earth are the aliens, right.

So there's a lot of different ways to think about which is what Afrofuturism is.

But I think as a Capricorn of those aliens, alien invasion went down, I would first try and figure out, like April said, like who knows what's really going on?

Who's the specialist 'cause I really feel like what they saying is accurate.

I would just go like, pack up my backpack, get my bike, my 10 speed and just head to the Hills and just see what happens, you know.

- Hilarious, that is hilarious.

But again, sounds like a very good plan.

And I think you make a very interesting point about how we conceive of aliens because that's, I mean, I know from my work, that's something that I'm very interested in, something far beyond this idea of a spaceship, because I think that's probably the least likely way that it will happen.

I'm sure it's one of the ways that it could happen, but there are many, many other pathways to this place in time and space.

And so I'm really curious about that.

And I also really appreciate that sort of overlap or that interface between the scientific and the spiritual and just, you know, when we start talking about quantum theory and the fuzziness and the weirdness and all of this stuff and then this things kind of, you know the Venn diagram kind of closes in.

So before we close out, we do have a couple of questions.

This first one, I'm going to, oh Jervaughn I'm sorry, you said you're gonna need to, okay, if we lose you on camera, then we'll still have you on audio.

And I wanna definitely, thank you for being here, but please stick with us and let's see.

For the two actors, what does it feel like to work on one of these films and immerse yourself in the world of the film?

- Okay, I'll start.

Well, we shot this a while ago, but what's great about it is, it's nice to have the elements.

Like I remember when we got the prop for the like antivirus and someone had made that and what was kind of cool about our film was it was a little bit analog, which to me actually feels more sci-fi than trying to like super, super like VR, digitize it, like making something that you could hold in your hands was really nice.

And I think those kinds of things, like there was one part in your draft Celia that I always, always remember because she lived with her mom at one point and it was like Midtown Manhattan, which is like where all the skyscrapers are, had become kind of like a shantytown.

And that's where all those high rises were apartments that didn't have running water all the time.

And I think about that all the time.

There's just something about, acting is so much imagination anyway, even as realistic, realistic as it is like you're here, you're on location, you're actually on the street.

And you know, you're dealing with like this person who is a real medical expert at this place, but they're still like, "I'm not really in the situation.

None of these people, none of this is really happening."

And so it requires so much imagination.

So to be in a sci-fi situation where we're really stretching the limits of what I see around me versus what things actually are behind the camera.

It's just a really, it's fun.

It's fun to inhabit the situation where and for me it's also about trying to make it as quotidian as possible.

Like when she's, trying to work with tech support about her virus on her program and she has a mysterious kind of flu herself at the same time.

There's like the boring, waiting to go through tech support and talking to the person.

That helps ground the sci-finess of it.

If it's like, I'm still a person and the sci-fi that I've seen and I like is the kind, that's just like, "Yeah, it's kind of annoying that these aliens are here."

That can just bring the everyday humanity into this crazy situation, because that's how we would be.

Like this global pandemic brought on by a super virus is kind of boring sometimes.

Who would have written that, but that is true.

And so that's what's fun about like, yeah, the unreality reality of this kind of world.

- And really quick, I'm gonna say, since you brought up being on the street, just a little funny anecdote, because this really speaks to, beyond the experience for actors, as sort of storytellers, the power of having representation.

For the scene, there's a scene where Roxe is going to a huge meeting that has to do with her work, her research and she's late for the meeting.

And we shot a scene on the street where she's running to get to this high rise that's in Harlem on 125th in Adam Clayton Powell, it's the state building.

So she's running and there's a big Plaza in front of this building.

And it was summertime I believe, it was definitely warm outside and we were shooting in the middle of Harlem in the middle of the day, so there were lots of people around, and I remember people reacting to seeing her, she had on this like leather jacket with these huge, this huge pointed collar and her hair was amazing.

And it was, she had this huge, like natural hair and there were these guys and they were like, she looks like a superhero.

And it was just like, people were just like really stoked and pumped just to see this.

I mean, they saw the camera, so they knew we were shooting, but it was just like the sight of her in this way, doing this thing, really moved people on the street.

And for me, you know, I love New York and a barometer of a lot of things to me is like the people on the street in New York, because they will, if it's not good they will let you know.

It doesn't work and if it does work they will let you know that as well.

So that was huge for me.

So Morocco, same question to you.

What does it feel like to work on one of these films and immerse yourself in the world of the film?

- Well, the beautiful thing about Keith is, he's very thorough.

If we the actors had questions, he had answers.

And luckily, we did do table work like we do in theater.

And we did some read-throughs and if we had any questions about what was going on, 'cause I was like, "What the hell man?

What am I supposed, what's my?"

You know what I mean?

I'm like, "What's going on?"

And if I'm the smartest person in the room, I'm in the wrong room.

So Keith had the answers and we asked the questions and we had a great team of actors who we could work off of.

I'm watching how people were constructing that character and then I was able to carve out my own character.

But yeah, it was, I the actor, couldn't get in front of the story.

So like me watching "The Abandon" now, I'm still like, "Well, what happens?"

You know, what happens next 'cause I don't know.

And Keith has that and we haven't done anything else, so it's one of those things.

I couldn't get in front of the story.

So hopefully the audience couldn't get in front of the story and that was the beautiful mystery of it all.

And you know, it's still mysterious to me because I'm like, "Well, all right Keith, well we need to finish this up, man."

So I see what's going on you know, and it's one of those things that actors never play the end.

We have to take that journey and figure this out.

We all trying to figure it out.

All the whole team of actors, were trying to figure out this relationship, what's going on, what happened to this guy?

What's gonna happen to that guy?

What happened to him?

So it was, even when we were on set, it was just like this brotherhood, 'cause I had, I knew some of the actors and then I was fans of the other actors.

So it was great to work with this team of actors because they made you raise your game.

You're not gonna step on the set, you watch Sterling, Sterling never stops working.

We can be on a break, drink and talking and Sterling is still working it out.

You're just like, "Man, this brother don't, he don't take a break."

So you're gonna have to raise your game when you step on that set.

You can't just come in like, "Oh man, well I learned my lines and I'ma hit my mark."

No, absolutely not.

You're gonna have to be in it every moment, every beat, just staying in it and they're gonna give it to you and you have to give it back.

So for me it was a beautiful team that Keith assembled and hopefully we can revisit it soon.

- So, I'm getting the message that we need to wrap really quick.

I wanna ask you Seth, really quickly, what if things change and that invasion does happen?

What would you do?

- I think that Morocco, and then later Keith hit it right on the head and that is, get out of the way.

Anybody that can come here right, is way beyond our level technologically.

So whatever the, I mean, that's a conceit of the films that we take them on, right.

The U.S. Air Force is scrambled or whatever.

And they eventually, thanks to human characteristics like courage and daring and I don't know, ignorance about what aliens could do, they go in there and they beat these guys.

That's not, what's going to happen.

That's like Neanderthals taking on the U.S. Air Force.

They're not gonna win, right.

But that isn't a very good film for most people but honestly, if they came here, I have to say I was called by a journalist just the other day from Britain and he said, "Is there a secret Pentagon plan to defend ourselves?"

I said, "No, there's not.

It's totally hopeless."

And having that drink that Morocco was talking about, or April or Keith also weighed in on this.

Yeah, yeah, just grab some frozen pizza, your favorite girlfriend or boyfriend and head for the hills, exactly that.

The only strategy that might have a chance, maybe you can negotiate.

- Right on, thank you very much for that, giving us some hope.

So I think, we unfortunately lost Jervaughn because he had to change location and we do have to go now.

I'm sorry for the questions that we didn't get to, but I wanna say a humongous thank you to our panelists.

We, I thoroughly enjoyed talking to all of you and hearing what you had to say as I'm sure the audience did as well.

You all brought something really tasty to the table.

So thank you very much for that.

And thank you for making time for us.

We really appreciate it.

Everyone have a fantastic weekend and take good care.

Stay safe and until next.