>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Well, our connection this hour is made.

Each time you go out to eat or have a drink, or when you don't.

There's a lot that can factor into the decisions you make when it comes to a night out or a night in.

And as Leah Stacy recently wrote in her editor's note, her editor's letter for the November issue of City Magazine, some of it comes down to cost.

According to NPR, in September, grocery prices are up 29% since February of 2020 from supply chain issues during the pandemic to the invasion of Ukraine by Russia to avian flu affecting egg prices to President Trump's tariffs.

Families have had to make choices that reflect their budgets, and sometimes that means going out less often.

And when you do go out, do you have a favorite place at which you are a regular?

Are you Norm at cheers?

Somewhere in our region, or are you looking to try something new every time you go out?

What's hot with local bars and restaurants?

This month marks the third annual City Magazine Food and Bev issue, and the team at city has you covered when it comes to everything you need to know about the Rochester and Finger Lakes scenes.

This issue is also covering a range of food and beverage beverage related issues, from a grassroots movement to help people who are hungry, to what's new with Finger Lakes wine.

We're also going to talk about cabbage and donuts and more.

And with us is the city team.

Leah Stacy, editor of city is back with us.

Hello.

Hello.

Hi.

Good way to start the week with you guys.

Hello, Patrick Hosken, arts reporter for City magazine.

Hello.

Nice to have you back here.

Roberto Lagares, multimedia reporter and world traveler for City magazine.

Hey, hey.

>> Always happy to be here.

>> And Jacob Walsh is an art director and doesn't travel as nearly as much as Berto for city magazine.

>> How did you know that?

Well, I'm for city.

I've never been sent on assignment.

I know.

>> To like Greece of all.

Well, you've probably gone to Greece, the town.

>> I've been there a couple of times.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Not as exciting as Greece.

The country.

I want to I do want to start with your your editor's note, because right now, if everyone listening can just think of the last time you went out to eat.

I mean, like you or if you order at a restaurant, if you're able to do that.

Did the bill surprise you?

And you know, I, I thought you'd you framed it pretty well, Leah.

It wasn't a condemnation.

It wasn't a lamentation.

It wasn't criticism.

It was just an observation.

It's harder to meet somebody out for a drink, go out to eat as often as we all want to do.

I think these days.

And that's probably affecting us.

It's affecting the industry.

It's not not necessarily a fun time in that regard.

>> Yeah.

Because as someone who wants to support especially local places, I want to keep allocating part of my budget to that.

But I do find myself having to think about that more on a weekly to monthly basis now.

>> Yeah, I think you actually write something like Ditch the chains, like Preserve Local.

It was pretty blunt.

>> Yeah.

I mean, I have been known to hit the occasional Starbucks or if you follow me on Instagram, you know, I love McDonald's.

and I am ready for the judgment on that one.

It's fine.

but less and less.

am I spending money out at, you know, not that I did a lot before, but also I grew up on the West Side and in a large family, and a lot of times, just for lack of budget or resources, we were going to chains as a family or, you know, someone else was planning, like a graduation party or a family meetup, like someone's in from out of town.

And we're going to, like Carrabba's, which I think, R.I.P.

I think I just read that somewhere, maybe, and it'd be.

>> Really funny if you're wrong.

>> Chili's, I know, but like or like Tully's like Tully's was a big one.

great.

>> Chicken fingers.

>> And, like, kind of local ish.

We could get really nitty gritty on this.

But yeah, what I'm saying is, like, if you know someone in the industry right now, like the industry is struggling as much as like the average person in a lot of ways, like they are, they are seeing slower sales and having to bring up prices because of supply costs.

And so just making the effort to really allocate the funds that you do have, if you have them to, if you are going to go out and meet someone, go somewhere local, put your money back into our local economy.

>> Yeah, I think that's well said.

I also want to say we're not even going to be able to get to everything I want to get to in this issue.

There's so much it's a great issue.

It always is.

yeah.

It's a good it's a good problem to have.

Right.

Yeah.

but one of the really fun things that I do want to squeeze in before the end of the hour, maybe we'll do it closer to the top, but I want listeners thinking about this question.

If you had to have a last meal and it was Rochester Finger Lakes based, you know, maybe it's maybe it includes an entree or four, as Leah chose, I think, from local restaurants or.

>> Shared plates.

shared plates with myself.

>> Something from local farms.

What would it be?

What would be on your ultimate like last meal?

Rochester, Finger Lakes?

but before we do that, City Social is coming up here and it's happening on the 6th of November, which is how many?

What is that, three days away?

Oh my gosh, Thursday, Thursday.

>> Nights coming up quick.

>> So what's going on.

>> For the city social.

Yeah.

Well we picked the place actually I picked it as kind of a wink.

If you have read the issue or saw Geno's story, which we're going to talk about, I was like, you know what?

Let's see if Swan dives up for it.

So they have a pretty big feature in a news earpiece.

they are more than likely closing by the end of the year.

Swan dive has been really, I would say like a cornerstone in local nightlife.

For the better part of the last decade.

I know, like working with Rochester cocktail revival, like they opened one of the years that we were doing cocktail revival, and it was like this big thing during that.

And it was always like a fun place to go dance or their mozzarella sticks or their slices, like really great.

And so if you want to hear more about that story, stay tuned.

Gina will talk about it.

But I thought, how fun.

And then they put up this Instagram post a couple days ago and it was like, we're not dead yet.

And then it was like all these menu specials.

And I just thought, like, they're having fun with it too, and trying to make the best of a pretty terrible situation.

So we are going to have it there.

So if you've never been and you may not make it before the end of the year come out and hang with us and it's going to be great.

>> Thursday night, 530 to 730.

>> Yeah, because some of us are going to go to the demos at Bug Jar after shout out Jason Millen.

>> There you go.

530 to 730 at Swan Dive on Thursday, the city Social, that's a monthly event there always a lot of fun and I know the team would love to see you there.

yeah, it might be might be your last chance to get to Swan Dive.

Maybe.

Yeah, depending.

so we'll talk about that coming up too.

Here.

So let me, let me go around the table here real briefly here.

Last meals.

Leah, you got to start here.

The concept here I love this concept here.

You're choosing the last meal.

>> Yeah.

>> And.

What are you going to go with?

>> So I have a Fiorella chicken cutlet of spicy lettuces.

The cure brandade, which, if you haven't had that, it's like a potato cod.

I call it mashed potato fish.

Way better than it sounds.

And then on really great toast points.

and an order of classic la petite poutine, because I really miss them.

And for Tony's carbonara slice, which is like out of this world.

>> All right.

So you squeezed a lot in there.

>> I did, and I left some off.

I edited this like four times.

I just there's so many great places here.

And in Beyond the City.

it was really hard to narrow it down.

>> When you're the editor of city and you are in this world, you're going to get phone calls from people who are like, how could you not include me?

How could you not include this?

>> So far, none of that.

Okay, I think people people who know me, know that I try to be fair and like, spread the love.

I really do a lot of pressure oven.

>> Berto, what's on your last meal?

>> I went homemade, I went with my grandma's pupusas.

Because if you've had a pupusa, it is incredible.

And addicting.

and for those of you that don't know what that is, it is a stuffed tortilla, basically.

and my grandma makes arguably the best ones.

no, I will not bring any in because they won't make it.

I will eat them in my car or in my house.

It's just a fact.

I know that's reality, man.

>> Okay, that was an easy choice for you.

>> Oh, yeah.

First thing that came to my mind, I was like, absolutely this.

I'll eat 30 of them.

>> Patrick.

>> Why wasn't that your choice?

>> Because I not to get super dark.

Right.

But.

>> All right, here we go.

>> I thought about spicy food because I always talk myself out of going nuclear with it.

And I thought, if we're talking about actual last meal, then I won't care.

So I wanted it to be a spicy.

Then I could, then I could probably handle that.

>> Never occurred to me when I was reading your answer.

>> But isn't that like you want to be able to say you lived right?

>> Yeah.

>> Before you die, but.

>> You're gonna save it for the very end.

>> You're gonna save it.

Yeah, yeah.

>> Well, at that point, like, there's no better time, right?

>> Yes.

>> Yeah, I know it makes a lot of sense.

>> It's the alternate title for Getting Jiggy with it was Going nuclear with it.

That's right.

Oh my God, that's right Jake.

>> You can't top that.

But what is your last meal?

>> I have no aspirations to top anything.

that mine was a order of hot buffalo wings from Dickey's.

That's my.

It's my local spot.

it's where I go to celebrate my sobriety anniversary.

I'm a person who doesn't drink.

I go there every month on March 3rd.

Every month.

My God.

Well, you guys, you gotta celebrate something, right?

But no, every year on March 3rd, I go there, get a big order of chicken wings.

And if I have to die after that one year, that's how I want to go.

That's it.

That's how I want to.

I think, I, I think I wrote something about being wiped clean off the face of the earth.

Yeah, me and my boss both said something about we took last meal in a very specific direction, but.

Yeah.

Order a chicken wings.

That's my favorite food.

That's.

That's where I gotta go.

It's what I gotta have.

>> I was with you on where that, like, the last meal mentality was going, but.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah, yeah.

so in a moment we're going to kind of, we're going to move to some of the really newsy and you know, it's a really interesting, diverse issue, covers a lot of different stuff because it covers a lot of fun stuff.

It always does.

but some really important stuff.

And we're going to talk coming up here to some of the contributors and some of the people involved in some of those stories.

Let me also just say that part of this question was not just your last meal, but what would you bring back?

And Leah brought back something that's been on my brain for so long.

Right.

Listeners might know that, like, I've long wanted to go up to the spinning restaurant that I didn't arrive in Rochester until 2003, and by then the spinning restaurant was of the past.

>> You haven't been in the building?

>> Never.

>> Oh, I've been up there.

>> You've been up there.

>> So for an event.

>> So here's what I was able to dig up thanks to City Magazine and hat tip to the Democrat and Chronicle, who like 12 years ago, did one of the retrospectives.

And they took you back to 1977, the opening of the restaurant up there, which was called what was it called?

>> The changing scene.

>> The changing scene.

So you'd be in the restaurant, but the outer edges are spinning.

And they said, don't set a drink down on the outer edge because it's going to move.

And it was only open for about 11 years.

It was one of those deals.

According to the Democrat and Chronicle, that the original chef had a vision.

The original general manager had a very different vision.

They clashed.

The chef quit.

They brought in new people to manage, new people to cook.

And it was always a great scene.

But it was not.

It was struggling with the food.

And then one year, the mayor of Rochester brought like a very important out-of-town delegation to eat there.

And after several hours, plus only a third of the people had been given any food, and they left.

And the mayor was like, we're never coming back here.

And so it was sort of a famous Tom Ryan, not happy with the with a local business.

So it closed as a restaurant in 1988.

I don't think it ever reopened as a restaurant.

And it's been office space since.

So you've been up there.

What's it look like?

>> Like an office that was built over a restaurant.

>> Is that right?

>> Yeah.

>> A real bath fitter situation.

>> And it's nice.

>> And it's been a few years, but yeah, they did.

They did kind of dumb down the esthetic from, from the photos of the restaurant that I've seen.

trying to remember what office was up there and I know who I could text for.

This answer.

but I want to say the event was like one of those, remember?

Like the tweet ups or like the rock.

>> Yeah.

>> Like, yeah, it was like when everybody was on Twitter and like.

>> And it wasn't like, so mean and evil.

>> Yeah.

And I feel like Matthew Wray was involved with it.

That's the person I'm thinking.

Do you remember where he worked?

>> I don't.

>> I feel like they're off anyway.

Matthew Wray, if you're listening, let.

>> Us know.

>> Well, so that's that's fun though.

I mean, does it look did it look to you like the kind of place that could be revived as a restaurant?

>> Yeah.

>> It really did.

>> Or like a super cool event space.

I mean, anything can happen, right, with when you've got the space and the talent and I when I went up to what they did with the top of the Metropolitan priv or Priv, I can't remember how they said it.

that event space that the Gallinas just redid.

I was thinking about the changing scene, and I was like, man, if somebody could get in here with this kind of talent and development vision, it would be so cool.

>> So that's what Leah's bringing back.

What are you bringing back, Berto?

>> I think I said tasting menus for, like, you know, you're like, solo tasting menus or like couples, because sometimes, you know, I love the shared plates or like, you know, the family style.

sometimes I don't want to spend family prices.

I don't need the family pack.

I just want a little.

Give me a little, like Sam's Club sampler.

>> You said it very succinctly.

I have it in front of me.

Small plates at corresponding prices, which I think is a fair ask.

>> Okay.

>> So.

>> Patrick, what are you bringing back?

>> I really didn't mean to go.

So, like, cheeky with my other one, but I, I did say that the Coke freestyle machines at Wegmans should be brought back, which I don't think I'm alone in, you know, bringing back the Coke freestyle machines at Wegmans.

I just, you know, sometimes you need it.

>> Nina was a very special.

>> Movie theater.

Should not be the only place that you can indulge in those.

I think also.

>> In a raspberry lime.

Coca-Cola zero.

Yeah, I agree.

>> Unholy abomination.

That's good.

Jake, what about you?

>> mine is similar.

It's novelty sodas.

and I mentioned in my little blurb here that whenever I go to the Finger Lakes and go to those strange little candy shops, there's always a strange fridge of of of sodas I've never heard of.

Sometimes one of the flavors is buttered popcorn, and I'm not looking for that, but I'm looking.

>> For.

you know, stinky.

>> Stinky little herbaceous sodas that I. That I'd love to see.

Yeah.

>> can I play this game, too?

Would I bring back, please?

So back in my writing, writing more often days.

there was a culinary alley in on the southeast side of Seneca Lake that I was spending a lot of time at with a restaurant called Suzanne Fine Regional Cuisine, not Suzanne's.

It was Suzanne Fine regional cuisine.

And they still have space there.

I think they do events and cool stuff in the barn, but the restaurant was the kind of place where you would go and go, wow, we are really far afield from any population center and they are doing things at an extremely high level, and every person in this building is extremely well trained on the menu.

They can answer any questions or enthusiastic.

It just inspired me.

Like you can choose the level that you want to be at and you can achieve it anywhere.

You don't have to make an excuse.

They did such a great job.

and so Suzanne and Bob stack, if you guys, you know, you know, I don't know.

It's been years, but thank you for a great experience down there.

And that was at the time, by the way, where when Deb Whiting was still alive at Red Newt and we lost Deb Whiting years ago.

So Red Newt has always had really cool stuff.

And they still do.

But, you know, when Deb was running the food there was amazing.

and then there was Stone Cat cafe still there, I think.

And and just before the passing of Danio.

So you had, like, this culinary alley where you're like, I cannot believe the level all within, like an eight mile stretch here.

It was so cool.

It was really, really cool.

and that doesn't mean that there's not incredible things happening in Finger Lakes.

It's just I'm playing the game of what would you bring back here?

So there you go.

>> Totally.

>> the new City magazine on food and beverage.

And we're going to bring in a guest on the line now.

But before we do, Leah Stacy, you wrote a piece called Let Them Cook.

Tell us about the piece a little.

>> Bit here.

>> So this piece has been on my list for a while.

I've been following this organization, which is an international organization, and it's our local chapter here.

It's called Food Not Bombs.

Probably a lot of listeners have heard of it in some aspect.

and so I pitched this to the team when we were planning this issue, said, what do you guys think?

we reached out to them originally to do originally this was maybe going to be Berto's photo essay, and then we pivoted a little bit partially because we thought there was another candidate for the photo essay, which we'll talk about later.

and also because I really wanted to go and I wanted to be part of this piece, and I wanted to do a little bit more writing on it.

So Berto and I went and did a cook with the Roc Food Not Bombs chapter.

Oh, God.

Probably like a month ago now.

It was like early in October, but it was cold.

and yeah, they were so welcoming.

And there's a lot of anonymity with the group, and we respected that in the ways that they asked us to, and just kind of hung out with them.

Did the cook.

Well, I helped prep let's not go too far here.

Berto did not cook.

I did not cook, I prepped, he took photos.

Yeah.

but we got to hang out with our team and or their members, and it's a sort of a rotating group of members.

They have everything from U of R and RIT students to folks who live here year round and are a little bit older in our coming out once or twice a week.

They do this twice a week at the Flying Squirrel on Clarissa Street.

>> So I think we've got Vas on the line with us now.

One of the core members of the group who who Leah wrote about in the piece, let them cook.

Hey, Vas, thanks for joining us.

>> Hey, thanks for having me.

>> So Vasily set the stage a little bit, but why don't you tell listeners a little bit more about what the mission is with Roc Food Not Bombs?

>> Sure.

Well, for Roc Food Not Bombs and Food Not Bombs in general, because like Leah said, it is a worldwide organization.

You know, there are chapters in Tokyo, Berlin, Istanbul and beyond.

it's a protest movement against what we would say is, you know, wasteful or misdirected spending.

Right?

We always have money for weapons and for all these other things.

that end up killing people.

But we don't have enough money for food.

And, I mean, obviously, this isn't the zeitgeist now with the the snap benefits debacle, but it's been a problem in our society for longer than I've been alive.

>> Tell me about the concept of solidarity, not charity.

>> Sure.

So like I told Leah, when we were working together for the piece, we do our best not to draw this like thick line between us and the people that we serve, right?

We invite people that we run into at BTS to help us out if they can.

whether that's just there at BTS for the day or whether that's by coming and joining us at The Flying Squirrel for a cook.

And so it's the idea that we're all in this together, right?

Like we've had food insecure folks come and serve with us before and take extra things home.

>> What do you need most right now?

Vas.

>> Probably more people to get involved.

Money is great, food donations are great.

But at the end of the day, you're kind of limited by how many people show up.

You can only fill as many food stands as you have people to drive to them.

>> All right.

So how to do that?

How what do people need to know about getting involved?

>> Well, I would say you can come join us at the Flying Squirrel, just like Leah and Berto did.

we meet at 5:00 on Wednesdays and at 4:00 on Saturdays.

You can also reach out to us on Instagram or via our website.

If those times don't work for you, or if you have other ideas about how to help out.

>> So Berta, Berto and Leah, you want to tell us a little bit more about that experience?

What what that was like and what people are going to experience on their first time out there.

>> yeah.

>> Wholesome.

>> Go ahead, Berta.

>> Just wholesome.

Wholesome, welcoming and just, I don't know, it felt like a laid back environment.

It wasn't.

It was a well-oiled machine.

Everyone knew what they were doing.

And if they didn't, they.

If they didn't show it, I mean, and it all just kind of came together.

my brain couldn't really comprehend it because it's my first time just entering it, and I'm trying to document it as it's happening.

But it was just amazing to see everyone just hanging out, talking, having just good conversation.

But then also at the end, we like all of a sudden there's these packaged meals ready to go and ready to go serve them.

>> Leah.

>> I think it was really stunning to me once we got to BTS because we did the cook and then we went with a handful of the members to actually hand out and everything was gone.

I think within 20 minutes.

And this is not only the meals that had been prepared, but bakery goods and a bin of clothing and some hygienic supplies, hot coffee, apples, like, there was a lot of stuff set out and it just went so fast.

And it was a good reminder for me of like, you know, we have this sort of quirky like Tale of Two Cities, but it's it's real.

Like our city has a lot of need.

And I was just really grateful to be part of that and that we have organizations like this who take time and resources and give to those who need it.

>> Yeah.

And I understand the juxtaposition that not only Vas is talking about, but what some city readers might experience when you're reading about a piece like this.

And then we're talking about a revolving restaurant.

I mean, I understand your point about those two worlds or is well taken.

I also think this is a very strange moment to be in, given the conversation about Snap benefits, about the wealth of this country.

You know, despite inflation, despite economic upheaval, this remains one of the richest, if not the richest country in the world.

And we've got 42 million people who are going to be, you know, who are faced with possibly temporary losing.

And I know every, every state is kind of doing something a little different.

Virginia's doing a little something different than New York.

And people are trying to step in.

But Vas at the end of the day here, this is a rich country with people who could starve.

And that feels very jarring.

And I'm sure that probably hits you every time you do this work.

>> Absolutely.

Even before the snap debacle, you know, most of the reliable estimates I've seen were that 25 to 30% of our food is wasted every day, and we have the resources to make sure folks have enough to eat.

And if you start looking at, you know, child poverty numbers here in Rochester and thinking about what that means in those families, right, that kids aren't always getting enough to eat, and then we're throwing out fancy food at that revolving restaurant that you mentioned.

yeah, it hits us every time.

>> it's Rock FM, the website to check out more.

And you mentioned you're on socials Vas.

>> Yeah, it's the same thing for Instagram, Rock FM.

>> And tell people what flying squirrels, if they haven't been there.

>> Oh that's great.

There was actually the fundraiser yesterday which went very well.

The Flying Squirrel Community Center is in Cornhill.

and just like you know, the name implies, it's a community center that folks can rent out for all sorts of events.

We have lots of music shows.

There benefits for different causes.

And of course, that's where Food Not Bombs makes our home.

for our weekly or biweekly cooks, that is.

>> Hey, Vas, I hope you get more people joining you every week here.

Thank you for making the time to talk to us.

And thanks for doing the work for the community.

It's really, really important stuff.

>> Thanks very much for having me I appreciate it.

>> Yeah, it's great stuff from Vas.

Again, it's Rock FNB, Dot great endorsement I think from Leah and Berto.

Berto.

The first word was wholesome.

I mean, you really feel the need there.

So really, really great stuff.

The piece is called Let Them Cook.

It's part of City magazine's new edition.

It's on food and beverage, and we're talking to the team from city.

They're all here, Jake and Patrick and Berto and Leah.

They're not all here.

There's more than just them.

But, you know, they're the important ones.

>> And oh, my God, I'm so sorry.

Ryan.

>> Take that.

Ryan.

>> Oh, my God.

that's not true.

>> And it is a great annual tradition.

Let me grab a couple of listener points of listener feedback on some of what we've been hearing.

Ariel on YouTube, watch it on YouTube.

Says last meal in the Rochester area, Atlas Eats or Galeon in Lakeville are gallien.

Yeah.

>> That's.

>> now that's a summer spot for I would say.

>> But it's.

>> Open year.

>> Round, right?

>> It is open.

>> Year round.

Yeah, I have.

>> Lakeville.

>> My old stomping ground.

>> I've actually been there in the winter and in the summer.

In the summer, it's just, you know, you're on the water.

But.

Yeah, yeah.

Very interesting area.

I'm very curious to know, Ariel, what you're eating.

at Gallien in the winter time.

That would be very curious.

Atlas eats two, Atlas eats.

Still doing what they're doing.

>> Oh, good.

So good.

>> I haven't been there.

>> In a while.

Mann Act.

Are they still rotating?

They still rotate the themes.

>> Like of different culinary traditions and backgrounds.

Okay, so.

>> Very cool.

>> Thank you for that.

And I think we've got Mike in Rochester on the line.

hey, Mike.

Go ahead.

>> Hey, how's it going?

Good.

you know, WXXI member and you cloud smarts was the business.

>> That.

Yes.

>> Oh, my God, thank you.

>> That was it.

We had been up there for a few events.

>> Yes.

>> So there are.

All right, so and the changing scene later became is that we're talking about.

>> Yeah.

Cloud smarts.

>> That was the company.

>> Cloud smarts.

Okay.

All right, Mike, any other Intel that you want to drop on us?

This is good stuff.

>> Nope, nope, nope.

That's it.

Just long time listener.

>> All right.

Thanks, Mike.

>> Thank you.

Mike.

There you go.

See, there's always someone who can fill in the blank for you.

we have to take our only break of the hour.

When we come back, we're going to talk about Gino Fanelli story.

It's called When the Party's Over and a little controversial in in in City Hall in that one.

And we're going to talk about some of that and what's going on.

in a particular district of Rochester with Gino next on Connections.

Coming up in our second hour, tens of millions of Americans have streaming services at home, but a lot of the people with streaming services are frustrated.

They don't feel like they know what's on or going to be on or searchable or findable.

Maybe we need TV guide back.

Regardless, it is not an easy time for indie filmmakers, and we're going to talk to a couple of indie filmmakers about their work and the state of their craft in 2025.

Then we'll preview the Anomaly Film Festival.

>> Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Mary Cariola center, proud supporter of Connections with Evan Dawson.

Believing an informed and engaged community is a connected one.

Mary Cariola.

>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson so if you're just joining us, the team from City Magazine is here.

And the November issue is on food and beverage.

It's a great annual tradition.

The city social event is coming up this Thursday evening, 530 to 730 at Swan Dive on Alexander Street.

And if you've been Reading City and you've been reading Gino Fanelli work for WXXI News, you know that Swan Dive is likely closing at the end of this year, and we're going to talk in a moment about why.

But Swan Dive has agreed to host the City Social this week.

So a little bit of a symmetry there.

so this might be your last chance to get out to Swan Dive before it closes.

So that's Thursday, 530 to 730.

Gino's piece is called When the Party's Over.

Gino is on the line with us.

Hello, sir.

Thanks for making time, Gino.

>> Oh, thanks for having me.

>> So the story according to City Hall, is that what you're.

I think what you're about to tell us is overblown.

And, I mean, I don't want to be cheeky about it.

I, I you quoted what the mayor said on this program, but there is some disagreement about what's going on to kind of set the scene for us here.

>> Yeah.

So about a year ago, last September, there was a shooting near Ethan Alexander, actually right near Swan Dive.

And in response to that and the kind of feeling that there's been a rise in violent crime in that area the city implemented this entertainment district.

And what that is, is every Saturday night from 10 p.m.

to 130 in the morning, they barricade off the Ethan Alexander area, where all the bars and restaurants are.

And you have to show I.D.

to get in.

It's there's police surrounding the whole thing.

You can't really hang out on the street down there.

You have to go into a bar.

And if you're not going into a bar, you you got to leave.

And so the idea there was to kind of close it down, make it pedestrian only check everyone that's going in there.

And the result is, yeah, there there hasn't been a shooting over there in the past year.

Violent crime there or crime in general there has gone down on Saturday nights.

But some of the businesses there are saying, well, no one's coming down anymore or it's coming to the point where they're losing business to the point where several of them have either sold off their business, have closed, or like in the case of Swan Dive, are kind of planning to close when their lease is up at the end of the year.

And it kind of raises this question of like, okay, where's the balance between ensuring the public safety of that area and trying to support the business community there?

And city Hall takes the stance that everything is great.

There's no problems.

Business is booming down there.

And I've talked to several business owners that said that is not exactly the case.

>> Well, and so this is where I think it gets a little confusing in that, first of all, it's only Saturday nights from that.

What you said 10 to 130, something like that.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

And so part of what City Hall is saying, part of what the mayor said to us is, you know, look, that is a small window that is a targeted window for a reason based on past activity and behavior in the area.

And it is specifically to make sure everyone knows they can be safe going there.

It is meant to attract people to want to be there.

The mayor's quote that you used in your piece when he was on Connections last month, he said, quote, not one violent incident there since we put that into place and the vast majority of businesses are doing extremely well and are extremely successful, we will never sacrifice public safety for entertainment, end quote.

You know, so Nick Ryan from Swan Dive tells you that, you know, there's places you could look at in other cities that have done similar things or at least similar intentions.

He talks about sixth Street and Austin by the university.

And so to me, it looks like something that is maybe the question is how it was executed, how it was set up versus the intent.

I mean, I'm trying to make sure I understand fully the complaints.

Gino.

>> So I think the biggest issue, there are a few things to get to there.

But one, I think the claim of it's only a small window of time and it's like during lent you ban fish on Fridays like, well, it's only one day a week.

And like.

>> Yeah, it's the day.

Yeah.

All day.

>> It's Saturday night in the East End.

Yeah, it's an absurd claim to make that like, that's just a small window.

Like, yeah, it's their busiest time of the week.

Like that's where they probably make the majority of their money for the week is on Friday and Saturday nights.

You're taking away one of those nights.

Yeah.

That's going to hurt business.

So I think that's a ridiculous claim to begin with.

but, you know, the the thing is, it's not just the problem that a lot of the people have seen that have businesses there that I talked to is that, you know, there are places, Nick Ryan from Swansea, pointed Austin, Texas and I believe it's sixth Street there that.

they kind of closed down and I've been there.

It's really cool.

It's not the same as what we have here, though.

I mean, the the concern is that this is not a welcoming thing.

It's people walking up.

There's sirens.

There's police, there's security, there's spotlights.

Some people might not care about that.

Some people might not mind having to show their I.D.

and go through the barricade.

and other people.

It either gives off the perception that it's dangerous down here because it's all quarantined off, and everything that might that is kind of the optics of it that I think that might concern some people.

And the other thing is like, I just don't want the hassle.

Like that might be a part of it too.

Like, I don't want to have to go through security and show my I.D.

when I can, you know, go to the southwest.

I can I can go to Fairport, I can go to Park Ave and not have to deal with the whole rigmarole of going through security to get into this place.

I can't drive my car in there, so I have to park somewhere else.

All these things may seem trivial, but when you add them all together, there is a certain amount of clientele that are going to say, the hell with it.

I'm not going to go down there anymore.

So, well, I think the argument that violent crime down there has has slowed.

I think that's true.

There is data to support that, and that data is referenced in the piece.

It's also worth noting that violent crime overall in the city has gone down.

Whether or not they're in this barricaded area.

So whether or not there's a direct correlation is kind of hard to make the call there.

And it's also worth noting that the number of, serious violent incidents, shootings it wasn't like it went from, you know, 50 that happened last year or 40 that happened last year to none this year.

But there have been none this year.

It was one that led to none.

Now, I think the mayor would make the argument that I do agree with that one.

Shooting is too much.

There shouldn't be any shootings, but it's not.

I don't think it's fair to say that there was, you know, pointing to that number and saying we made a tangible effect here because I think there's a lot of factors that could be at play that could explain that more so than just the district itself.

And it's of note that there isn't one on Friday nights, and there hasn't been any shootings on Friday nights either.

So it's all of these claims.

I think it's an argument that the city is making to defend this.

And there is also a counterargument that's made by the business owners there.

And, you know, the tough thing in writing these stories is trying to find the balance of like, okay, where the where is the truth?

And I think there's truth in both arguments that, yes, having a barricaded off district that you have to show I.D.

to get into is probably going to crack down on crime.

And it's also probably going to hurt businesses down there.

So I think both of those things can be true.

>> All right, Gina.

>> Before we let you go, obviously this is something that we'll be able to follow going forward, because when we sit here in six months and nine months, a year from now, if the barricades are still there, it will be interesting to see if the business flow has changed the way that some business owners are concerned about.

And I know you'll follow that, and we will certainly report on that.

But I want to close with this.

You talk about the idea of finding balance.

It's not like you went down there and cherry picked this.

You found one business or you found Swan Dive and you wrote a story around one thing.

but are there are there business owners who are like, wait a second, I wanted this, this is let's do a lot more of this.

Is there like a counter faction of business owners that that we should know about?

>> Yeah.

So in talking with my editor, Brian Sharp, this is something we talked about a lot of you know, we need to find that voice of and you'll notice the conspicuously absent in the story is that voice of a business owner that really likes it.

Because the ones that I talked to that are in the story, I believe there's three, three of them that owned four businesses down there.

they are all are opposed to it.

They weren't the only ones I talked to.

Some refused to go on the record.

Some of them kind of were like, yeah, it's fine.

It's not hurting us.

It's not harming us.

But I didn't find anyone who was really, like, really adamant to say that they love this thing on the record, to talk about it.

And they're at a certain point of the journalist where you're really searching for that person to say that in the balance, it's like, okay, just the fact that I have to do this kind of shows that putting that voice forward, even if I did find it would be like, is that balance?

>> No, I hear you.

>> You really.

>> Then you feel like you're cherry picking.

Just, you know, that outlier?

No, I, I thought the fact that that voice didn't exist in your story was very telling.

It means it wasn't for lack of trying.

So.

>> I.

>> I would I would leave with this to one of the businesses that the city pointed to, to talk to is coffee on East East Avenue which is a wonderful place.

Great coffee.

It's a it's a really cool spot.

They just opened in the past year and they're like, well, they're doing great.

and that was one they pointed to as they're doing great in this district, omitting the fact that coffee was once in the district when they first opened, told the city that, hey, it's hurting our flow of traffic.

So they actually moved the barricades to exclude Albion from the, the the district.

And that's one of their evidences of they're doing a great job.

And people like this is, this is one that complained.

So it wasn't in the district.

So it wouldn't be in the district anymore.

>> So.

okay.

>> Is that telling?

I would say so.

But hey that's neither here nor there, I guess.

>> Gina, thanks as always.

Great work on this underappreciated Gino Fanelli.

I think everyone should read his stuff every day, every week.

Thank you sir.

>> I agree everyone.

>> Reads.

>> Appreciate this.

so that's Gino Fanelli.

And that story is called When the Party's Over.

That's something that we will certainly follow on as we go forward here.

But just one quick aside, by the way, even Gina's piece mentions the cannery.

God, Fairport is getting a lot of love.

I mean, like, we did a whole show on Fairport, sort of renaissance, but the cannery reinventing an old industrial space.

Jeez.

Oh, man.

It's like they've done something there.

People are talking about Fairport.

>> Iron smoke knew way back when.

>> Yeah, yeah, very cool stuff there.

So thank you very much.

Gino Fanelli.

Okay.

It's the food and beverage issue.

City magazine.

That's what we're talking about on this Monday afternoon here.

And we've got the team from City Magazine here.

So let me talk before we close.

We're going to bring Maiah Johnson Dunn in to finish the program.

Before we do that let me let me grab a phone call and then we'll talk about a few other pieces in this month's edition.

Joe in Rochester lives at Easton.

Alexander's on the line with us.

Hey, Joe, go ahead.

>> hey.

How are you?

>> Good.

>> yeah, it's.

I just wanted to say it's quite an absurd situation they have down there.

I live right around right down the block at Charlotte.

And Alexander and between the lights and the barricades.

And it's almost like a film set.

It's outrageous.

It's very strange.

And it creates a very bizarre environment for for people that are trying to do other things around that area.

>> So.

>> It's a it's an over response, Joe, to the situation.

>> It's an over response.

But but and also it's like the barricades are just on the street all week.

They just they push them over to the corner and you got to walk around.

>> Them looks so invasive.

>> It's very weird.

>> Okay.

>> That's my experience.

>> Joe, thanks for calling in and sharing that.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you very much.

And so Joe's last point there about the barricades are still in the street.

They just be pushed over to the the side, I think.

Leah, you were saying you've seen them not not a great look.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> I mean, you see them when you drive down there.

>> They're often they're often blocking the sidewalks.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Also true.

>> Not great.

Not great for accessibility.

Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Not great.

okay.

>> Well that's something that we'll be following.

And, Gina, you've touched a nerve as always.

There.

Great stuff there.

let's talk about a few other pieces that I just want to briefly mention here.

I loved the piece on how to be the best bar guest.

I think everyone should read that.

I think there's six different pieces of specific advice from an industry professional on how to be a good bar guest, and I'm not saying, Jake, you are a bad bar guest, but did you learn something there?

>> I did, I did it was I need, I need, I need you to like me.

You gotta like me.

>> No.

>> Just kidding.

>> No, I appreciate the idea that we all can be that we expect good service and we go out, but I think it flips it around a little, and it reminds us that that showing some grace, being patient, showing interest in the people who are working for a living is always a good thing.

I love this, I don't know whose idea this was on the team, but I thought this was a really good one.

Was that you?

>> Which one?

>> the how to be a good bar guest.

>> Oh, this was all flow.

>> Yeah.

>> All right, so flow and I have been talking about just some different ideas.

She likes to do sort of these more like, think pieces as we like to call them.

and I think that this meets the perfect point of think and service.

Yeah.

Like it gives you some takeaway tips, but it's also like, really based on her experience and the thinking that she's done around this concept because she is on the other side of the bar all the time.

and I think we mentioned it in there, she is the the bar manager at Leonore's.

Yep.

And and she's been at various other places, including Swan Dive before that.

That's actually how I met her.

And is is a former English major, and we love having her on the team.

She's got another really great story.

Cooking for December 2nd.

>> Really cool piece.

>> So yeah.

>> Way to go flow.

A lot of fun.

>> There in her own photos.

>> Oh very.

>> Good, very good.

>> So that's how to be the best bar guest.

I want to ask Berto about going to Greece.

>> It was amazing.

>> Greece, the country.

>> You mean Greece?

>> The country here.

>> Oh, right.

>> Oh, that was all right.

No.

>> Yeah.

No, it was it was fantastic.

it's also that idea kind of came about as I kind of lay out in there, go pick up an issue, but just being mistaken for a local the entire time I was there, and that was.

It's a great feeling.

>> You said that.

>> You're kind of like an ethnic chameleon.

>> Yeah.

>> People always assume that.

>> You're local.

>> Wherever you are, until they hear.

>> You speak.

>> Pretty much.

Yeah.

Or they just assume, like what my my ethnic background.

And it's not always positive, but it's.

That was one of the situations where it kind of was cool to be mistaken for a local and like, kind of get some insider tips or just like, be presented and greeted as a local at first, and then of course, very quickly they're like, oh, I'm sorry, that's my bad.

>> what do you hope to inspire us as readers with this kind of a piece?

I thought this was really fun to kind of for me.

I have friends who literally had a vacation planned to Greece.

The flight gets delayed like a full day, so they went to Greece.

The town instead, and took pictures around the town of.

>> Greece as if it was vacation.

>> It was a lot of fun.

>> Honestly, just at least for me, I am way more.

I found myself to be way more ambitious outside of you know, my home, right?

So, like, you kind of fall into a routine and you have the places you want to go to.

but then, like, when you're traveling I tend to be I don't know, more spontaneous in the sense that, like, I don't know if I'll like it, but let's do it.

You know, I'm not even, like, looking at menu, like, what's on the menu.

Like, I'm just.

It looks cool.

It looks great.

Maybe it's got a couple reviews and let's just send it.

And I was like, why don't I should do that here?

You know, there's plenty of things that are as you see in dish all the time opening and closing and people introducing new things.

So that was kind of what I took away was bring that that ambition here.

>> Well done.

A lot of fun.

we got squeezing a lot in here.

So, Patrick, you wrote a story called Heads of State.

Poor cabbage doesn't get the love.

Yeah, as a foundation of New York's agriculture, we talk about a lot of different stuff.

We're going to talk about the wine industry in a moment, and they get plenty of love.

Cabbage.

Yeah.

Okay.

So you're doing it for cabbage.

>> Yeah.

And so I have a friend who works in produce in the produce industry.

And he sort of hit me to this.

He's like, people always talk about apples.

You know, Western and central New York.

But if they knew what really should be celebrated as cabbage.

And he mentioned squash too.

But I maybe we'll do that next year.

But cabbage I thought.

Yeah.

So I, I wanted to talk to two different farmers who sort of at different scopes and really get that.

so brightly farms in in hamlet.

You know, I asked Betsy brightly, one of the farm managers.

Like, how many cabbages do you have there in the ground?

She said, a million, right?

So I was trying to conceptualize this, and most of them are, you know, they when they're harvested, they go into cold storage and then they.

And what just what I loved about doing this story, I was like, where's it going to take me?

And so I sort of to mirror the path of the cabbage, you know, you go through the harvesting and the storage and then to where it ends up, you know, KFC coleslaw in addition to homemade coleslaw.

they have great contracts with distributors who, you know, and it ends up in egg rolls in the New York City area.

So just all these places where it's like, you know, the the Western New York grown cabbage has this whole other life that comes from a big farm like that and sort of contrasted with, the smaller growing family farms which, you know, they have about 2 or 3000 and they mostly, you know, they're they're at the the farmers markets around town.

They work with different restaurants.

If a chef, you know, they they want to do certain cabbage dish, they'll kind of they'll contact them and they'll, they'll, they'll plant something and they'll set it aside for that.

So just I guess figuring that out with this sort of like, funny smelling funny looking piece of produce is also kind of a funny.

>> Thing.

Underappreciated?

No, definitely.

Really, really fun piece.

I also want to say you have a separate piece on an interesting idea that we all have third places that we've talked a lot about with the whole city team and how important they are a place that's not your home or your workspace that you can go and feel like a regular feel home.

Often a coffee shop, sometimes a bar, and nonalcoholic people.

Some people would call them mocktails or zero proof cocktails have had such a surge that they are going to get their own third space kind of thing.

And I want to tell you that I want to talk about this on a separate conversation.

Sure.

Will you come back and talk about that?

>> I would love to.

Plant the seed.

>> Now let's set that up because I think that's really important.

I think our next guest is ready.

We're just getting that set.

Speaking of third places, a lot of people have spent time popping through the Finger Lakes wine.

the wine trails and the scene there.

And one of the very best at teaching and writing is Maiah Johnson Dunn.

Maiah Johnson Dunn piece is called message in a bottle, and she's on the line with us now.

Hello, Maya.

>> Hi, Evan.

How are you?

>> Good.

And I really appreciate you squeezing this in, because I know everyone's got a busy Monday here, so briefly here.

you write that the same headline has resurfaced for years.

Wine is in trouble.

And, man, I hear from a lot of people who believe it.

So.

And mostly they blame Gen Z because Gen Z is has very different habits.

But what do you want people to understand about the state of the industry in that way?

>> You know, we keep talking about this like doom and gloom.

Oh my God, we're in trouble.

What are we going to do?

But nobody actually does anything except point fingers and kind of blame.

and so it was actually interesting writing this article and talking to people about what they're trying to shift in their businesses to sort of weather the storm, if you will.

And I think wine is going to be fine.

For what it's worth, I think that, you know, we're in a difficult point right now.

We've all seen the price of eggs and the price of gas, so there's likely going to be just a little bit of a stripping that happening happens as this goes on.

But I think we're going to be fine.

But what it does mean is that we kind of need to shift how we communicate to our audiences, how we attract new people in.

And to be quite honest, I think the bar is really low.

And so when you write an article like this and you say what people are doing to sort of make a change, it maybe doesn't seem groundbreaking, and that's because it doesn't have to be.

We just need to learn how to talk to people and meet them where they're at, and invite them on to our properties and also visit them where they are, too.

>> Well, I similar with Patrick.

I will tell you my I would love on a separate day to talk to you more in depth about generational habits with drinking and some of the pressures on the industry.

you know, you write about how, you know, there's new owners coming in, people like Ria and Mike that you've talked about, talked to, you've talked to a lot of people who are new to the industry and are kind of putting down roots, but then others are retiring and looking to sell.

So that's a whole conversation I'd love to do on a separate day.

I do want to just get your take on the fact that I think last week we learned that the Finger Lakes was named Wine Enthusiast 2025 American Wine Region of the year, and it never hurts to get kind of a headline like that.

is that meaningful to you in any material way?

>> Massively.

It's really exciting to be recognized in this way.

I think that we always maybe feel like a second city, if you will.

Right.

We're not quite New York City and we're not supposed to be.

Let's be fair, we are the Finger Lakes, and that's beautiful in and of itself.

So it's really nice to see that recognized.

For what it's worth.

>> Yeah.

And I mean, there's still interesting sort of wine publications out there with their eyes on the scene around the world.

The Finger Lakes in the last generation has really kind of burst through.

So let me close with this here.

for, for this harvest that we just came out of, I've talked to people who are saying, you know, I'm worried about the fact that there's fewer customers if you are buying grapes or selling grapes, it's harder to sell the grapes this year.

But the harvest was remarkable.

Maya, as you know, we had this driest September and October right up until Halloween when when everything was usually picked by then.

And we could have one of the great vintages ever.

If people want to find it when 2025 ends up coming out here, or am I overstating it there?

>> No, I think you're right.

And that is the key that people need to want to find it.

I truly believe you can find something beautiful wherever you are.

You just have to be looking for it.

>> So if you look at all the reasons that people say the sky is falling, the the idea that people are still going to find their drinks, but maybe they're going to drink better and drink less.

I think that's an interesting concept.

People want to drink less, but maybe not a shoe drinking entirely.

They want to drink better, so they'll pay for fewer bottles, but they'll get better stuff.

Is that an optimist view, or do you think that's realistic for the industry?

>> I think it's realistic.

And it's it's highlighted truly by people like Matt Yeager at Pinnacle, who sees it when they come in to shop.

They say, I really want to buy a bottle of wine.

You know, I'm trying to buy less, but I want it to be nice because I'm not buying as much.

And so they're spending a little bit more.

What was the special bottle is is still special, but just in a different way.

>> Do you want to come back, talk more about this sometime?

>> I would love to.

That'd be a lot of fun.

>> Because I think everyone listening can relate to this question.

Are you drinking?

Are you drinking less than you used to?

Have your habits changed?

Do you desire them to change?

And why is that?

Is it because of cost?

Is it because of health?

Is it because, you know, in the pandemic, maybe you had a morning coffee and an afternoon cocktail, and that habit was there for a while, and now is it changing?

So everyone's got kind of their own different story.

What I hope is that they read and learn from people like Maya, because not every drink is the same.

Not every bottle of wine is the same.

Maya is one of the great educators, and city is lucky to have Maya's byline.

Message in a bottle is the piece that's part of the food and beverage issue.

Let's talk soon.

We're going to bring you back on, and we'll talk at length about these issues and more.

Maya.

>> That'd be awesome.

Thank you so much.

>> Evan Maiah Johnson Dunn message in a bottle.

So as we wrap, what did we not talk about?

Oh, you've got like the new you got a new columnist, a new advice columnist here.

What's going on?

>> We didn't talk about donuts.

>> Oh, my gosh, we didn't even get to the donuts.

I know.

Oh no.

>> Incredible two page spread of donuts in this issue.

>> Oh, no.

Go read our piece.

>> On donuts.

>> You got the music.

We gotta.

>> Keep it rolling.

It's all gonna be going online.

>> Movies can wait.

>> Yeah.

>> Jake, what do we not even get to hear?

I mean, come on.

>> Oh, you just named all of it.

I just want to shout out Abby Quatro for shooting the cover at Spin and Savor.

excellent.

>> Ask you about that, too.

That's a.

>> Great, excellent story by Emily Shepard.

Excellent work by Abby Quatro.

And the model is Amanda s. I don't know if she wants her last name out there, but thank you all for that amazing cover.

>> I always love geeking out on the cover art.

It's always great stuff.

The new city is out there now.

The food and beverage issue in November.

Great stuff.

Thanks everybody.

Thanks, team.

Great work.

>> See you.

>> Swandive Thursday 530 to 730 for the City Social.

They will see you there.

We've got more Connections coming up in a moment.

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