ANNOUNCER: AMERICAN POLITICS HAS ALWAYS BEEN ROUGH-AND-TUMBLE FROM THE FIRST CONTESTED PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN 1796, WHEN 13 CANDIDATES RECEIVED ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES, TO THE FIRST TWO-PARTY ELECTION IN 1800, OFTEN DESCRIBED AS ONE OF THE DIRTIEST IN ALL OF AMERICAN HISTORY.

AND NOT ONLY POLITICIANS AND POLITICAL PARTIES HAVE STRAINED THE BOUNDS OF CIVILITY IN PURSUIT OF POWER, SO, TOO, HAS THE AMERICAN MEDIA, WHICH FOR GENERATIONS BEFORE THE INTERNET AND PERHAPS INCREASINGLY SO IN THE AGE OF THE INTERNET, HAS BEEN FIERCELY DIVIDED ALONG PARTISAN LINES.

AND OUR CIVIL SOCIETY ITSELF... [GUNSHOT] APART FROM POLITICS AND PRESS, HAS OFTEN NOT BEEN CIVIL AT ALL, AS WHEN CULTURAL ANTIPATHY CAUSED CIVIL WAR.

STILL, IN THE ELECTION OF 2016 AND THE BITTERLY PARTISAN YEARS OF THE OBAMA PRESIDENCY, WHICH PRECEDED IT, MANY SAW SOMETHING NEW...

PUT HALF OF TRUMP SUPPORTERS INTO WHAT I CALL "THE BASKET OF DEPLORABLES."

ANNOUNCER: AND DANGEROUS.

"OH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I SAID, UH..." ANNOUNCER: SO WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO CIVIL DISCOURSE IN THE UNITED STATES AND WHAT CAN BE DONE TO REPAIR IT?

THIS EPISODE OF "THE WHOLE TRUTH" WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY... WOMAN: PHILADELPHIA'S HISTORIC DISTRICT IS BEST KNOWN AS AMERICA'S BIRTHPLACE.

IT MIGHT SURPRISE YOU, THEN, THAT THE OLDEST PART OF PHILADELPHIA HAS THE LATEST AND GREATEST IN STREETS, PARKS, RESTAURANTS, AND SHOPS.

YOU'LL FIND VIBRANT ENERGY ALL AROUND.

LEARN MORE AT VISITPHILLY.COM ANNOUNCER: THE MILL SPRING FOUNDATION, THE DORAN FAMILY FOUNDATION, AMETEK, AND BY... FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS IN ENGLISH-SPEAKING COURTROOMS AROUND THE WORLD, PEOPLE HAVE SWORN AN OATH TO TELL NOT ONLY THE TRUTH, BUT, RATHER, THE WHOLE TRUTH.

THE OATH REFLECTS THE WISDOM THAT FAILING TO TELL ALL OF A STORY CAN BE AS EFFECTIVE AS LYING, IF YOUR GOAL IS TO MAKE THE FACTS SUPPORT YOUR POINT OF VIEW.

IN THE COURTROOM, THE SEARCH FOR TRUTH ALSO RELIES ON ADVOCATES ADVANCING FIRM, CONTRADICTORY ARGUMENTS AND DOING SO WITH DECORUM.

ALL OF THESE APPLY TO THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION-- WHAT JOHN STUART MILL CALLED "THE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS."

THIS SERIES IS A PLACE IN WHICH THE COMPETING VOICES ON THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUES OF OUR TIME ARE CHALLENGED AND SET INTO MEANINGFUL CONTEXT SO THAT VIEWERS LIKE YOU CAN DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES THE WHOLE TRUTH.

THE PRESIDENCY OF DONALD TRUMP, THE MOST UNCONVENTIONAL PERSON TO OCCUPY THE WHITE HOUSE IN MEMORY AND THE DIVISIVE ELECTION WHICH PRECEDED IT AS WELL AS THE HYPER-PARTISAN CONFLICTS BETWEEN THE REPUBLICAN CONGRESS AND PRESIDENT OBAMA IN THE 6 YEARS LEADING UP TO THE 2016 ELECTION HAVE ALL GIVEN RISE TO A WIDESPREAD CONCERN ABOUT THE TONE OF POLITICS AND CIVILITY IN OUR DISCOURSE ABOUT PUBLIC AFFAIRS.

THIS SHOW "THE WHOLE TRUTH" WAS LAUNCHED AS A RESPONSE TO THE GROWING SENSE THAT THE AMERICAN MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS HAS BECOME DYSFUNCTIONAL.

AND SO THE QUESTION OF INCIVILITY IN NATIONAL LIFE IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTIONS THAT WE CAN DISCUSS.

ON THIS EPISODE OF "THE WHOLE TRUTH," WE'VE ASSEMBLED, AS WE'VE TRIED TO DO EACH TIME, A DISTINGUISHED AND THOUGHTFUL GROUP CONTAINING DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW, AND WE WILL REASON TOGETHER ABOUT HOW WE HAVE COME TO A PLACE IN WHICH DEBATE ABOUT PUBLIC ISSUES IN THE UNITED STATES TODAY HAS COME TO BE FILLED WITH MORE HEAT THAN LIGHT.

BUT WE WILL ALSO CONSIDER WHAT CONSTRUCTIVE STEPS FORWARD CAN BE TAKEN TO HEAL OUR BODY POLITIC BY RECONSTITUTING THE CIVIL DISCOURSE, WHICH IS SO CENTRAL TO MAKING DEMOCRACY ENDURE AND SUCCEED.

HERE WITH US TO DISCUSS THESE IMPORTANT ISSUES ARE FORMER UNITED STATES SENATOR MAJORITY LEADER TOM DASCHLE, DEMOCRAT SENATOR FROM SOUTH DAKOTA FROM 1987 TO 2005.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, A NOTED CORRESPONDENT AND COMMENTATOR, WHO HAS REACHED INTO AMERICA'S HOMES FROM ANCHOR CHAIRS ON ALL 3 CABLE NEWS NETWORKS.

AND DR. CAROLYN LUKENSMEYER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR CIVIL DISCOURSE.

SO, WELCOME, EVERYBODY.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU FOR COMING.

UH, I'D LIKE TO START BY ASKING ALL THREE OF YOU, UH, TO CONSIDER, UH, WHAT--WHETHER THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH CIVILITY IN AMERICA TODAY AND, IF SO, WHAT THE NATURE OF THAT PROBLEM IS?

SENATOR?

WELL, DAVID, I THINK WE HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM.

I THINK IT STARTS, OF COURSE, WITH OUR LEADERSHIP.

I THINK THE TONE SET BY LEADERS ESTABLISHED, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, THE DEGREE OF CIVILITY ALL THE WAY THROUGH, BUT I THINK THE MEDIA, ALSO, HAS, UH, BEEN PART OF THE--THE ISSUE.

UH, WE--WE ALMOST URGE MORE CONFRONTATION THROUGH THE MEDIA THAN WE USED TO.

I THINK THAT'S HOW WE SELL--SELL NEWS AND SELL PROGRAMS.

AND SO I THINK THAT'S A PART OF IT.

BIG MONEY IS A BIG DEAL.

THERE'S A LOT MORE MONEY IN POLITICS THAN EVER BEFORE, AND THAT FUELS A LOT OF THE DEBATES ISSUE-CHARGED.

I THINK THERE'S BEEN A DIMINUTION OF THE PARTIES THEMSELVES.

WE DON'T SEE THE SAME DEGREE OF STATURE GIVEN EITHER THE REPUBLICAN OR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTIES, SO THAT MEANS OTHERS FILL THAT VOID, AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS COME TOGETHER.

AND THAT CONFLUENCE HAS CREATED, A--I THINK, A REAL VOID IN CIVILITY TODAY.

DAVID: WOW.

GRETA?

I, YOU KNOW, TOTALLY AGREE WITH THE SENATOR COMPLETELY.

I WOULD ADD THIS--THAT WE HAVE SORT OF A FUNDAMENTALLY FUNDAMENTAL LACK OF DECENCY AND GOOD MANNERS, TOO.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THAT?

WHY ARE WE CHEERING FOR THE GUY WHO MAKES THE MISTAKE OR CHEERING FOR THE GUY WHO GETS TRIPPED UP ON A QUESTION OR THE SENATOR OR THE CONGRESSMAN WHO DOES SOMETHING WRONG, YOU KNOW?

WE'RE CHEERING FOR THE WRONG TEAM.

WE'RE NOT--SO, WE'RE NOT SORT OF LOOKING FOR THE GOOD.

I REALIZE IT'S IMPORTANT, CERTAINLY FOR THE MEDIA TO BE THE SKEPTIC AND TO DRAW OUT INFORMATION AND FACTS, BUT SORT OF UNDERLINE-- IT'S ALWAYS AN EFFORT TO LOOK FOR THE--THE LESSER RATHER THAN THE BETTER.

CAR--CAROLYN, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY ABOUT THIS?

YOU'RE--YOU'RE IN THE BUSINESS OF CONSIDERING THE QUESTION AND CONSIDERING REMEDIES.

CAROLYN: WELL, THERE ISN'T ANY QUESTION BUT THERE'S BEEN A TREMENDOUS RISE IN INCIVILITY.

AND, FRANKLY, WE NOW HAVE SURVEY DATA TO SUPPORT WHAT AMERICANS THINK ABOUT THAT.

WEBER SHANDWICK JUST RELEASED THEIR 7th ANNUAL CIVILITY IN AMERICA POLL.

75% OF AMERICANS FEEL THAT INCIVILITY IS NOW A CRISIS IN THE COUNTRY.

DAVID: WOW.

SO I WOULD ECHO WHAT TOM AND GRETA SAID ABOUT THE CAUSES OF IT, BUT I WANT TO ADD ONE MORE, MORE EXPLICITLY.

WE WATCHED IN THE 2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION PEOPLE RUNNING FOR THE HIGHEST PUBLIC OFFICE IN OUR LAND CHOOSE SPEECH, CHOOSE SOMETIMES EVEN BEHAVIOR THAT NOW MANY AMERICANS FEEL LIKE IT'S LEGITIMATE... DAVID: MM-HMM.

TO ACTUALLY SPEAK UNCIVILLY ABOUT PEOPLE THEY DISRESPECT.

DAVID: SENATOR, TO WHAT EXTENT IS THIS A PERFORMANCE?

IN OTHER WORDS, YOUR-- YOUR EXPERIENCE IN THE UNITED STATES SENATE, MANY TERMS.

UH, AND YOU HAD A PERSONALITY THAT YOU CARRIED TO THE FLOOR.

YOU HAD A PERSONALITY THAT YOU CARRIED TO THE STUMP.

YOU ALSO KNEW COLLEAGUES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE.

IS THERE A SORT OF DEGREE OF FRIENDSHIP OR UNDERSTANDING, UH, THAT WE MISS BECAUSE OF THE TONE OF, UM... TO WHAT EXTENT IS THIS A PERFORMANCE-- TO WHAT EXTENT IS THIS SOMETHING THAT IS DEEP-SEATED AND SORT OF WIRED IN THE POLITICS TODAY?

TOM: THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

AND I--I CAN SAY FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, DAVID, THAT, UH, THE MEDIA MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

I'LL--I'LL JUST GIVE YOU ONE STORY.

I HAD TO HELP MANAGE THE IMPEACHMENT OF BILL CLINTON BACK IN THE NINETIES.

WE COULDN'T DECIDE WHETHER WE SHOULD HAVE IT TELEVISED OR WHETHER WE SHOULD HAVE IT OFF THE RECORD AND NOT TELEVISED AND JUST EXCLUSIVELY FOR THE MEMBERS.

WE DECIDED WE'D COMPROMISE, AND WE HAD EVERYTHING UP UNTIL 6:00 TELEVISED AND ANYTHING AFTER THAT IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.

THE TELEVISED SPEECHES WERE POLITICAL, THEY WERE CONFRONTATIONAL.

THEY WERE EVERYTHING YOU'D EXPECT, UH, AROUND THE POLITICS OF THE MOMENT.

AS SOON AS THE CAMERAS WENT OFF AND PEOPLE CAME TO THE FLOOR AND SPOKE TO EACH OTHER, THE TONE, THE--THE CANDOR, THE EMOTION, THE--THE REAL TRUTHFULNESS WAS NIGHT AND DAY.

IT WAS DRAMATIC, AND I'VE NEVER-- I MEAN, PEOPLE BROKE DOWN IN TEARS AT TIMES, UH, EXPRESSING THEMSELVES.

I MEAN, IT GOT THAT EMOTIONAL.

AND IT WAS REALLY A PHENOMENAL DEMONSTRATION TO ME OF WHAT GOES ON EVERY DAY.

WHAT HAPPENS IN PRIVATE, WHAT HAPPENS IN PUBLIC OFTENTIMES ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

GRETA: WELL, YOU--YOU CAN'T STOMP ALL OVER THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S RIGHT TO KNOW.

I MEAN, THAT'S-- YOU KNOW, THAT'S LIKE-- THAT'S TRUE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S-- IT MAY BE THE BEHAVIOR OF THOSE WHO ARE ON CAMERA VERSUS OFF CAMERA.

BUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE REALLY HAVE-- IT'S EMBEDDED IN THE "CONSTITUTION."

THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE-- WHAT'S GOING ON.

OH, AB-- ABSOLUTELY.

DAVID: WELL, GRETA, WELL, MAYBE THE-- THE MEDIA VARIATION ON THAT QUESTION WOULD BE, UH, YOU HAVE BEEN ON THE MAJOR CABLE NETWORKS-- ALL OF THEM.

AND-- SOME SAY I CAN'T HOLD A JOB.

HA HA!

WOULD YOU SAY-- WOULD--WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOUR EXPERIENCE IS SIMILAR WITH EACH OF THESE NETWORKS?

REPORTING IS EASY IF YOU JUST DO SOMETHING OLD-FASHIONED.

STICK TO THE FACTS.

IT'S ALL YOU GOTTA DO.

IT'S NOT THAT HARD.

AND I REALIZE THAT SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, IT'S HALF-EMPTY, HALF-FULL.

PEOPLE CAN SEE DIFFERENT THINGS.

BUT IF--IF WE HAD A TRUE COMMITMENT TO STICK TO THE FACTS AS BEST WE COULD, YOU KNOW, IN RECOGNITION OF THE FACT THAT WE'RE HUMAN, AND WE'VE--WE REMEMBER THINGS LIKE DECENCY AND MANNERS.

AND, YOU KNOW, FRANKLY, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S ALWAYS-- I'VE THOUGHT IS INTERESTING IS I'VE BEEN LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE IN THE GREEN ROOM HANGING AROUND WITH SENATORS AND MEMBERS OF CONGRESS.

AND I KNOW EVERY SINGLE ONE OF 'EM I'VE EVER MET COMES TO WASHINGTON TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR THE BETTER.

AND IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, IF WE UNDERSTOOD THEIR JOBS A LITTLE BIT BETTER-- AND YOU KNOW--AND SOMETIMES WE'RE A LITTLE TOO HARD ON 'EM, SOMETIMES QUITE DESERVINGLY SO.

BUT YOU KNOW-- BUT SORT OF THE-- SORT OF THE THREAD THAT SHOULD BE GOING ALL THROUGH THAT IS, REMEMBER, FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, IT'S TO GET--IT'S TO GET FACTS, AND YOU CAN DO THAT WITH DECENCY AND WITH STRENGTH.

UH-- GRETA, COULD I-- COULD I JUST ADD ONE THING ON THAT, DAVID?

I--I--'CAUSE I THINK THAT'S SUCH AN IMPORTANT POINT.

AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY ONE OF THE CENTRAL QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW IS...

TRUTH IS NOW JUST AN OPTION.

DAVID: MM-HMM.

AND WE'RE HERE NOW, PEOPLE ARE REFERENCING ALTERNATIVE FACTS.

AND SO, WITH ALTERNATIVE FACTS, IT'S MORE DIFFICULT, I THINK, FOR AN HONEST JOURNALIST TO-- TO BREAK THROUGH AND ASCERTAIN WHAT THE FACTS REALLY ARE.

I MEAN, IF SOMEBODY CAN ASSERT THAT THEY HAVE ALTERNATIVE FACTS, WHAT IS A VIEWER TO BELIEVE?

YOU ALL ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE GONNA KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FACTS, OR AT LEAST YOU--YOU HAVE SOME--SOME FILTER.

NOW--NOW TURNING TO WHAT YOUR ORGANIZATION DOES...

NUMBER ONE, UH, IS, THE TONE OF CIVIL DISCOURSE TODAY IMPLIES THAT AMERICA IS DEEPLY DIVIDED.

DO YOU FIND THAT AMERICAN CITIZENS ARE DIVIDED, OR IS IT ESSENTIALLY A QUESTION OF, YOU SAID, LEADERSHIP?

UH, AND SECOND, HOW MISCHIEVOUS UH, DO YOU THINK THIS FAKE NEWS, UH...

ALTERNATIVE REALITY PHENOMENON IS?

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS, UM, TAKEN US A LITTLE BIT BY SURPRISE, UH, OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, BUT IT'S A DEVELOPING ISSUE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

CAROLYN: WELL, ON THE FIRST POINT, THERE IS NO QUESTION BUT WHAT THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CYCLE OF 2016 DID SHOW AT LARGE HOW DEEP THE DIVISIONS ARE BETWEEN DIFFERENT SEGMENTS OF THE AMERICAN POPULATION.

THE GOOD NEWS THAT WE SEE IN OUR WORK, WHETHER IT'S A LIBERAL DEMOCRAT OR A CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN, PEOPLE ARE NOW REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE INABILITY TO ACTUALLY TALK WITH ONE ANOTHER.

WE FIRST UNDERSTOOD HOW IMPORTANT THIS WAS-- DAVID: YEAH.

WE GOT THOUSANDS OF E-MAILS BEFORE THANKSGIVING AND CHRISTMAS AT THE END OF 2016, SAYING, "WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO AT THE FAMILY DINNER TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO EACH OTHER?"

AND YOUR SECOND QUESTION-- WHAT--I MEAN-- CAN I ASK YOU ABOUT FAKE NEWS, THOUGH, I MEAN, 'CAUSE YOU BROUGHT UP THE FAKE NEWS?

YEAH, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT.

BECAUSE, UM, I THINK FAKE NEWS IS SORT OF A REBRANDING OR REPACKAGING.

LOOK, WE'VE HAD "FAKE NEWS" FOREVER.

WE EVEN GET "FAKE NEWS" OUT OF THE GOVERNMENT IN WHICH INSTANCES FROM-- FROM, YOU KNOW, THE ADMINISTRATIONS, WHICH IS WHY IT'S OUR JOB TO BE SO AGGRESSIVE AND SKEPTICAL AND SCRUTINIZE AND NOT BE RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS, BUT TO GO AFTER.

WE--LOOK AT WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.

NOW, I'M NOT SAYING ANYONE'S TRYING TO INTENTIONALLY DECEIVE, BUT THAT WAS FAKE NEWS.

THERE WERE NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ WHEN WE WENT IN THERE.

THAT WAS FAKE NEWS, AND THAT WAS FAKE NEWS THAT ORIGINATED WITH AN ADMINISTRATION AND WAS FILTERED THROUGH THE "NEW YORK TIMES."

AND THEN, ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AND SENATE--YOU GUYS DIDN'T DO YOUR JOB, MEDIA DIDN'T DO ITS JOB.

SO, YEAH, THIS FAKE NEWS THING.

THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR A LONG TIME THROUGH MANY, YOU KNOW-- SOMETIMES INADVERTENTLY AND SOMETIMES INTENTIONALLY.

CAROLYN: BUT WHAT'S DIFFERENT NOW-- I GUESS-- WHAT'S DIFFERENT NOW IS THE WAY IN WHICH SOCIAL MEDIA HAS MADE EVERYBODY A BROADCASTER.

YEAH, PUTS IT ON CRACK, YES.

SO THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT THERE CREATING FAKE NEWS IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT WORLD.

GRETA: IT DOES-- IT DOESN'T MINIMI-- IT DOESN'T DIMINISH THE NEED TO BE-- TO SCRUTINIZE THE OTHERS WELL.

THERE IS...POPULAR DEMAND, AS YOU SAY, FOR, UH...A--A NEW TONE IN PUBLIC AFFAIRS, AND SO WHEN DOES THIS BEGIN TO INFLUENCE POLITICAL CONVENTIONS?

WHEN DOES THIS BEGIN TO INFLUENCE MEDIA BUSINESS MODELS?

IN OTHER WORDS, AT WHAT POINT IS THERE A TIPPING POINT?

I GO BACK TO THIS.

SEE, I'M A LITTLE BIT HUNG UP ON THIS.

SO THE DEATH OF DECENCY AND GOOD MANNERS.

YOU KNOW, I REALLY GO BACK TO THE-- TAKE THE DAYS AND MONTHS AFTER 9/11.

PEOPLE WERE STOPPING AND HELPING EACH OTHER AND NICE TO EACH OTHER.

WE WERE ALL DRIVEN TOGETHER.

I MEAN, IT REALLY SORT OF BROUGHT OUT THE BEST OF US ON A HORRIBLE, YOU KNOW, CRISIS THAT HIT OUR NATION, THAT HIT TO THE VERY CORE.

AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GONNA TAKE SOMETHING REALLY AWFUL FOR US TO SORT OF LOOK AROUND AND SAY, "HEY, YOU'RE NOT SO BAD."

YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S GONNA TAKE.

BUT THIS SORT OF, YOU KNOW, NOBODY'S RE-- RIGHT NOW, WE'RE ALL AT--WE'RE ALL TRYING TO KILL EACH OTHER.

WHAT IS THE CONSEQUENCE OF NOT ADDRESSING THIS QUESTION?

WHERE--WHERE DOES INCIVILITY LEAD US?

CAROLYN: WELL, I THINK THERE'S DATA IN TERMS OF TRACKING THIS OVER 7 YEARS WITH VERY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS THAT, IN FACT, IN THIS LAST ELECTION, 59% OF PEOPLE WHO RESPONDED TO THE SURVEY SAID THAT THE INCIVILITY-- AHEM--EXCUSE ME-- LED THEM NOT TO VOTE.

SO THE CONSEQUENCES ARE DISENGAGEMENT FROM THE PUBLIC SQUARE, THE CONSEQUENCES ARE MORE ACTS OF DISRESPECT AND ASSAULT OF PEOPLE WHO FEEL DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU DO.

AND THIS IS WHAT THE AMERICAN PUBLIC IS STARTING TO STEP UP AND SAY, "THESE VALUES DON'T REPRESENT WHO THIS COUNTRY IS, "AND WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING TO SHIFT IT BACK IN THE DIRECTION OF BASIC CIVILITY--" GRETA'S CALLING IT MANNERS, BUT I THINK IT'S THE SAME THING.

"BASIC CIVILITY AND RESPECT."

THE COST REALLY IS A BASIC--UH, UH, MISTRUST DIRECTED TOWARDS, ESPECIALLY THE--THE POLITICAL LEADERSHIP IN THIS COUNTRY.

UH, AN ANGER, A FRUSTRATION THAT WE COULD TALK A GOOD DEAL ABOUT.

THAT'S BEEN, UH, DISCUSSED PROBABLY MORE THAN WE NEED TO DISCUSS IT.

WE ALL GENERALLY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT TO BE TRUE.

BUT I THINK IT STARTS WITH, UH, WITH THE TONE, UH, CREATED BY THE LEADERS THEMSELVES.

IF--IF--IF--IF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OR A CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, UH, SETS A CERTAIN TONE, UM, THAT REALLY HAS A--AN EXTRAORDINARY, PERVASIVE EFFECT, I THINK, THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE POLITICAL SYSTEM.

AND THAT'S, UH, THAT, TO ME, ISN'T GONNA CHANGE SO LONG AS THE LEADERS DON'T CHANGE.

GRETA: AND I ACTUALLY THINK IT'S--IT'S BIPARTISAN.

I DO, TOO.

I MEAN, I THINK-- AND IT'S ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE.

BUT I ALSO-- I WOULDN'T SAY TO THE SAME DEGREE.

WELL, I THINK-- I THINK THE DEMOCRATS HAVE A SOFTER VOICE.

YOU KNOW, BUT THEY-- BUT THEY NEEDLE.

THEY SAY THINGS.

YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GONNA, YOU KNOW, PUSH THAT PAUL RYAN'S GONNA GET RID OF, I DON'T KNOW, MEDICARE FOR THE ELDERLY OR SOMETHING.

THAT'S PRETTY SCARY TO ANYBODY--YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE-- I MEAN, IT'S--EVERYONE SAYS IT SORT OF PROVOCATIVELY BOTH WAYS.

IT'S A DIFFERENT STYLE.

GRETA: BUT I--BUT I ALSO-- IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, I-- I ALSO--YOU KNOW, I WISH THE MEDIA SPENT MORE TIME ACTUALLY INTERACTING WITH MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, BECAUSE I ACTUALLY DON'T THINK THEY'RE ALL DEMONS TRYING TO KILL US.

YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE-- I JUST DON'T.

AND I THINK THAT-- YOU TALK ABOUT HOW LEADERSHIP HAS TO DO THIS.

WELL, WE SORT OF STIR THE POT A LITTLE BIT.

AND SO I THINK IT'S SORT OF A MUTUAL RESPONSIBILITY.

IT'S--IT'S, UM--IT'S THAT THE LEADERS HAVE TO BE CIVIL.

THE MEMBERS OF THE MEDIA HAVE TO BE CIVIL.

WE CAN ALL DO OUR JOBS WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, BEING, YOU KNOW, VERY, YOU KNOW, OBNOXIOUS, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD.

AND I THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE TO STOP THINKING THAT EVERYTHING THEY BELIEVE IS 100% RIGHT.

YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES THE OTHER GUY MIGHT BE RIGHT.

ARE--ARE THERE CERTAIN KINDS OF STORIES, SAY, UM-- YOU'RE AT MSNBC.

ARE THERE CERTAIN STORIES THAT YOU KNOW...

UH, ARE GOING TO AGITATE AUDIENCES AND THEY'RE ATTRACTIVE TO YOU FOR THAT REASON, OR ARE THERE OTHER STORIES THAT YOU FEEL ARE, UH, LESS PROVOCATIVE?

GRETA: WELL-- UH, IS THERE A JOURNALISM NORM HERE THAT, UH, THAT WOULD GUIDE YOU TO-- GRETA: WELL, WE-- LIKE NEWSPAPERS HAVE TO GET READERS, WE HAVE TO GET VIEWERS.

UM, I WOULD LOVE TO-- I HAVE A PARTICULAR INTEREST IN A LOT OF STORIES.

I'VE TRAVELED AROUND THE WORLD, BEEN TO NORTH KOREA 3 TIMES, TO REFUGEE CAMPS IN IRAQ AND--AND SUDAN.

I'D LOVE TO DO THOSE STORIES, BUT EVERY TIME I DO--CLICK.

YOU KNOW, NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR THAT, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.

SO, I MEAN, I KNOW SOME OF THE STORIES THAT THEY WANT TO HEAR.

SO YOU HAVE TO SOME-- YOU KNOW, IT'S SOMEWHAT OF A SERVICE INDUSTRY.

IF THEY WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THE POLITICS, WHICH MAY INCLUDE THE LATEST SPAT, YOU KNOW, AND THEN I THINK, "HOW DO I DO THAT?"

UM, I TRY TO MODULATE A LITTLE BIT WITH THE GUESTS.

UM, I TRY TO ALSO BRING DOWN THE, UM, THE TEMPERATURE A LITTLE BIT BY NOT GETTING INTO A FOOD FIGHT WITH THE GUEST.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO PERFECT ANSWER.

AND, UM, YOU KNOW, I WILL SAY THIS, THOUGH, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF EDITORIAL CONTROL OR DIRECTIONS FROM ABOVE, I HA--I'VE BEEN TO ALL 3 NETWORKS NOW.

UM, I HAVE NOT GOTTEN THAT.

I DON'T KNOW IF OTHER PEOPLE ARE GETTING THAT.

SO IF YOU DON'T--YOU KNOW, IF YOU THINK I'M BAD OR ROTTEN AT IT, BLAME ME 100%, NOT THEM.

UM, BUT THERE IS-- THAT'S VERY ENCOURAGING.

BUT THERE'S--BUT--BUT EVERYBODY WITH-- EVERYONE WITHIN EVERY HOUR OF EVERY NETWORK HAS A SURVIVAL INSTINCT.

AND WE ALL KNOW, WE ALL KNOW, YOU KNOW, WHAT DRIVES-- WHAT DRIVES THE VIEWERS.

HOW ARE YOU APPROACHING THIS?

CAROLYN: SO, DAVID, SOME OF YOUR VIEWERS MAY NOT KNOW.

THE INSTITUTE WAS CREATED IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE TUCSON MASS SHOOTING WHEN GABBY GIFFORDS WAS SO SEVERELY WOUNDED AND 6 PEOPLE WERE KILLED.

AND THE COMMUNITY AND THE UNIVERSITY STATE-WIDE SYSTEM CAME TOGETHER REALLY QUICKLY TO SAY, "WE HAVE TO MAKE SOMETHING GOOD COME OUT OF THIS TRAGEDY" TO REVIVE CIVILITY AND RESPECT.

ANYBODY WHO'S LISTENING CAN GO TO OUR WEBSITE AND JOIN.

AND IN THAT CONTEXT, WE SHOULD START WITH YOUNG PEOPLE.

WE SHOULD GIVE THEM THE SKILLS OF HOW TO DISAGREE BUT NOT HAVE TO NAME-CALL.

GRETA: MANNERS.

NOT HAVE TO BE DISRESPECTFUL.

MANNERS!

IT'S THE DEATH OF MANNERS.

MANNERS.

I WOULD PUT THE--THE WHOLE CHALLENGE IN--IN THE CONTEXT OF TIERS.

I--I THINK THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE WE FACE IS AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, THE--THE FIRST TIER.

THAT'S WHERE THE--THE REAL LACK OF MANNERS, THE LACK OF CIVILITY, THE CONFRONTATION, THE POLARIZATION HAS BECOME, UH... JUST, UH, EXTRAORDINARY.

AND THE SECOND TIER IS A STATE LEVEL.

AND YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY, SOME OF THAT IS NOW FILTERED DOWN.

AND WE SEE GOVERNORS AND STATE LEGISLATURES EQUALLY AS COMBATIVE AND CON--AND--AND CONFRONTATIONAL.

BUT THEN THE LOCAL LEVEL-- THE MAYORS, THE COUNTY GOVERNMENTS-- I SEE A SIGNIFICANT DEGREE OF CIVILITY THERE AND COMMUNICATION AND--AND A LOT MORE, UH, OPPORTUNITIES FOR DIALOGUE AND--AND COMMON SENSE.

SEEMS TO ME THAT IF, UH, YOUR POLITICS IS GONNA BE INCIVIL THAT, UH, THERE MUST BE REAL DIVISIONS DRIVING IT.

AND YET AMERICANS, AT LEAST, UH...

I REMEMBER "ONE NATION AFTER ALL."

THIS WAS A FAMOUS BOOK THAT APPEARED ABOUT A DECADE AGO AND SO FORTH, SUGGESTING THAT BENEATH ALL OF THE SOUND AND FURY, UH, THAT THERE IS GREATER CONSENSUS IN AMERICAN LIFE ABOUT, UH, ABOUT MORE ISSUES THAN WOULD MEET THE EYE.

GRETA: BUT--BUT JUST THINK ABOUT THIS.

YOU KNOW, 200 YEARS AGO WHEN THE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WOULD RIDE THEIR HORSE TO WASHINGTON AND BE STUCK HERE FOREVER AND SPEND TIME TO EACH OTHER AND GET TO KNOW EACH OTHER AND LIKE EACH OTHER-- THE VALUE WE GOT OUT OF THAT, HAVING THEM HAVE FRIENDS AND SOCIALIZE.

NOW THEY ARRIVE ON A PLANE ON--ON MONDAY MORNING.

THEY LEAVE THURSDAY NIGHT.

THEY NEVER GET TO KNOW EACH OTHER, SO OF COURSE THEY DEMONIZE EACH OTHER.

BUT YOU KNOW, SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT-- IF WE COULD SOMEHOW, YOU KNOW, WE IN THE MEDIA COULD BACK OFF A LITTLE BIT AND NOT MAKE IT A-- YOU KNOW, A--A FELONY TO LIKE SOMEONE IN THE OTHER PARTY.

TOM: BUT THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

GRETA REALLY PUT HER FINGER ON ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS TODAY IS THAT MEMBERS DON'T KNOW EACH OTHER.

THEY DON'T HAVE THE RELATIONSHIPS.

WHEN I MOVED IN 1978, EVERYBODY MOVED THEIR FAMILIES TO WASHINGTON.

THAT JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN TODAY.

THEY LEAVE ON THURSDAYS, AND MOSTLY THEY COME BACK NOW ON TUESDAYS AND WE TROT AROUND THE COUNTRY ON WEDNESDAYS.

AND, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST DON'T--YOU DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO GOVERN.

SO, THE--THE--THE DEPERSONALIZATION OF THE WHOLE POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT IS A BIG FACTOR IN WHAT HAS HAPPENED TODAY.

HUGE FACTOR.

WE REALLY NEED LEADERS, THOUGH, ON-- THE HEAD OF THE HOUSE AND SENATE TO COMMIT ALMOST POLITICAL SUICIDE AND BE WILLING TO DO THINGS THAT PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, MAKE THEM GET TOGETHER A LITTLE BIT MORE ON THINGS, WHICH, WOULD PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, BE THE END OF THEM.

I HEAR THAT THIS IS LESS A FUNCTION OF, SAY, CLASS DIFFERENCES-- GRETA: AND NOBODY INDIVIDUALLY--NO ONE INDIVIDUALLY IS BAD OR WANTS TO MAKE THIS UP.

IT'S JUST COLLECTIVELY THIS HAPPENS.

DAVID: YEAH.

CAROLYN: SO ONE OF THE PLACES WE SEE HOPE-- PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE STILL SEE THEIR CONSTITUENTS AT CHURCH, STILL SEE THEIR CONSTITUENTS IN THE GROCERY STORE.

DAVID: RIGHT.

WE'VE HAD A GREAT RESPONSE.

WE MOVE INTO THE LEGISLATURE AND DO A PROGRAM CALLED "BUILDING TRUST THROUGH CIVIL DISCOURSE."

SEVERAL STATES NOW, THE LEADERSHIP HAS INVITED US IN TO DO THAT WITH THE ENTIRE STATE LEGISLATURE.

AND WE ACTUALLY HAVE A TRACK RECORD IN THOSE STATES OF LEGISLATION PASSING BECAUSE OF THE RELATIONSHIPS THAT GOT CREATED IN THAT WORK.

DAVID: ONE OF THE BENE-- JUST, UH, THIS IS, UH, FASCINATING AND, UH, VITAL.

I THINK WE ALL AGREE THAT, UH, THIS IS A PROBLEM.

GRETA?

GRETA: WELL, THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PROVOKING A ROBUST DEBATE AND A TOUGH SCRUTINY BY THE MEDIA THAN TELLING EVERYONE TO PICK SHIRTS OR SKINS.

AND THAT'S REALLY WHERE SORT OF THE, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE NATION'S BECOME.

ARE YOU--YOU KNOW, WHICH SIDE OF THE-- WHICH TEAM ARE YOU ON?

AND I THINK--I THINK THAT'S THE PROMISE, THAT SOMEHOW, AT LEAST FOR THE MEDIA, IS THAT WE NEED TO HOLD-- WE NEED TO HOLD OUR-- OUR LEADERS ACCOUNTABLE, BUT, UM, BUT I THINK--AND I THINK WE CAN PROVOKE A ROBUST DEBATE.

BUT FOR SOME REASON, TO ME, THERE'S--THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE.

YOU--YOU CROSS THE LINE WHEN YOU'RE BASICALLY PITTING ONE AGAINST ANOTHER.

DAVID: YEAH.

AND THAT'S JUST FOR SOME REASON, THAT'S FUNDAMENTALLY--I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT LINE IS, BUT I CAN FEEL IT.

DAVID: YEAH.

CAROLYN, WHAT'S THE... WELL, FROM THE PUBLIC'S POINT OF VIEW, I THINK THE SILVER LINING IN THE SITUATION WE'RE IN IS IT HAS REALLY AWAKENED MILLIONS OF AMERICANS TO SAY, "WE'VE GOT TO GET BACK TO THE CORE VALUES THAT THIS COUNTRY HAS STOOD FOR ALL ALONG."

YOU KNOW, 97% OF TRUMP VOTERS SAY THE PRESIDENT HAS TO BE CIVIL.

99% OF CLINTON VOTERS SAID THE PRESIDENT HAS TO BE CIVIL.

SO THAT IS AN AMAZING COMING TOGETHER OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC IN RECOGNIZING THAT WE HAVE TO GET BACK TO A STANDARD OF CIVILITY AND RESPECT THAT MATCHES OUR CORE VALUES.

DAVID: THIS HAS BEEN A WONDERFUL DISCUSSION ON A QUESTION THAT I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE IS, UH, NOT ONLY VITAL, BUT, UH, VITAL TO THE MISSION OF THIS PROGRAM, WHICH IS TO, UH, WHICH IS TO PROVIDE SOME SORT OF, UH, FORUM, WHERE WE CAN COME TOGETHER AND DISCUSS THESE, UH, ISSUES IN THE SPIRIT THAT WE HAVE.

WE'RE DEEPLY APPRECIATIVE, UH, TO EVERYONE.

THANK YOU ALL.

IT'S BEEN A GREAT DISCUSSION.

ONE OF THE MOTTOS OF THIS PROGRAM "THE WHOLE TRUTH" IS A LINE ATTRIBUTED TO THE LATE SENATOR DANIEL PATRICK MOYNIHAN TO THE EFFECT THAT EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINIONS, BUT NOT TO THEIR OWN FACTS.

BUT TODAY, THE STRUCTURES WHICH THROUGHOUT MUCH OF THE 20th CENTURY MEDIATED THE UNDERSTANDING OF AMERICANS AS TO HOW TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN FACT AND FALSEHOOD HAVE BEEN WEAKENED.

MANY OF US GET MOST OF OUR INFORMATION FROM THE INTERNET, AND THE INTERNET IS A PLACE IN WHICH FACT AND FICTION CAN LOOK THE SAME.

IT IS ALSO A LONG-UNDERSTOOD IDEA, GOING BACK TO AMERICA'S FOUNDERS AND BEYOND, THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A FUNCTIONING DEMOCRACY AND MOB RULE.

IT HAS BEEN A LONG-UNDERSTOOD IDEA THAT MAJORITIES, WHICH COME AND GO, CAN BE MANUFACTURED THROUGH EMOTIONAL APPEALS THAT CAN UNDERMINE THE TRUE PURPOSE OF A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC.

SO WE FIND OURSELVES IN A SITUATION TODAY OF INFLAMED PASSION AND DIVISIONS AMONG GROUPS AND OUTLOOKS WITH A LACK OF AGREEMENT ON THE BASIC FACTUAL FRAMEWORK IN WHICH TO DEBATE PUBLIC POLICY ON MANY, MANY ISSUES.

CIVIL DISCOURSE IS STRAINED.

STILL, NO ONE IN ANY QUARTER OF OUR POLITICS SPEAKS AGAINST THE IDEA OF CIVIL DISCOURSE.

NO ONE ADVOCATES POLICY BASED ON MISINFORMATION.

AND WE HAVE BEEN AT GREAT LOGGERHEADS BEFORE, OBVIOUSLY, IN THE PERIOD LEADING UP TO, DURING, AND AFTER OUR GREAT CIVIL WAR, BUT ALSO IN THE RESPONSES IN THE COUNTRY TO THE GREAT DEPRESSION AND TO THE SOCIAL UPHEAVALS OF THE 1960s.

WE WILL ENDURE, BUT THE WHOLE TRUTH OF THIS MATTER IS THAT EVERY ONE OF US HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO LISTEN AND LEARN FROM THOSE WITH WHOM WE DISAGREE TO HOLD OURSELVES AS MUCH AS OTHERS TO A HIGH STANDARD OF TRUTHFULNESS AND TO TREASURE THE FREEDOM WHICH IS AT THE CORE OF OUR NATIONAL PURPOSE, EVEN MORE THAN WE CARE ABOUT THE VICTORY OR DEFEAT OF OUR OWN POINTS OF VIEW.

I'M DAVID EISENHOWER.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

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