IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE THAT THE UNITED STATES COULD BE HEADING TO A CIVIL WAR?

AND WHAT DO WE THINK ABOUT DEMOCRATS' LAW AND ORDER AGENDA?

IS THERE A MOVE TO UNITE THE CHURCH AND STATE?

STAY TUNED IVORY TOWER IS NEXT.

GOOD EVENING • AND, WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER ...

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ...

I'M NINA MOORE OF COLGATE UNIVERSITY • WITH ME IN THE STUDIO TO TALK ABOUT THIS WEEK'S NEWS ARE: KRISTI ANDERSEN OF SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY ANIRBAN ACHARIYA OF LEMOYNE COLLEGE BEN BAUGHMAN OF GANNON UNIVERSITY AND TARA ROSS OF CONONDATA COMMUNITY ONLY A FEW MONTHS AGO IT WOULD'VE BEEN • A STRETCH TO TALK ABOUT A CIVIL WAR BREAKING OUT IN THE UNITED STATES • BUT A RECENT SURVEY ASKED AMERICANS WHETHER THEY BELIEVE THAT A CIVIL WAR IS LIKELY WITHIN THE NEXT DECADE ... FOUR OUT OF 10 AMERICANS SAID YES • WHEN ASKED SIMPLY ABOUT POLITICAL VIOLENCE • MORE THAN 60 PERCENT SAID THEY EXPECT IT TO INCREASE OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS.

IS AMERICA SO DIVIDED NOW THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY TALK ABOUT CIVIL WAR OR EXPECT VIOLENCE TO BECOME A PERMANENT PART OF OUR POLITICS?

>> THIS IS A VERY INTERESTING QUESTION.

A HISTORY CHECK.

I WAS LOOKING AT SOME NEWS AND SAW THAT THE VICTORY IN THE SPECIAL ELECTION TO FILL TED KENNEDY'S STREET CREATED SIMILAR PANIC ABOUT THE IMPENDING CIVIL WAR AND THAT WAS 10 YEARS AGO.

HOWEVER THERE WAS RECENT WAR BY BARBARA WALTERS AND THE BOOK IS CALLED "HOW CIVIL WARS START."

AND WHAT SHE WANTS TO SAY IN THE WORK IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A TRANSITION PERIOD CALLED WHENS A TRANSITION BETWEEN AWE AUTHORITARIANISM TO DEMOCRACY AND THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

THIS TRANSITION MAY BE EXTREMELY VIOLENT OR MAY NOT BE VIOLENT AND WE CAN SEE PROLONGED CONFLICT.

I THINK A FULL ON CIVIL WAR LIKE WAS WE THINK ABOUT IN TERMS OF YUGOSLAVIA OR THE UNITED STATES CIVIL WAR, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE THE CASE, BUT THE DEFUNDING OF SOCIAL PROGRAMS, EDUCATION, HEALTH, THIS HAS CREATED A LARGE GROUP OF PEOPLE WITHIN THE UNITED STATES WHO REALLY DON'T SEE SOCIAL MOBILITY WITHIN THAT GROUP.

AND THAT CREATES A CERTAIN OF KIND OF ANXIETY.

NOW BARBARA WALTERS SAID ADD WITH THAT SOCIAL MEDIA WHO CAPITALIZE ON THESE AINGT AND START MAKING LIBERAL CLAIMS THAT U.S.

IMMIGRANTS OR WOMEN OR WHOEVER IS TABLING AWAY YOUR GOOD LIFE, AND THAT CREATES A TENSION WHERE A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THAT THEY CANNOT REALLY ADDRESS THEIR GRIEVANCES THROUGH NORMAL POLITICAL MEANS.

SO I REALLY DON'T THINK THERE WILL BE A FULL ON CIVIL WAR, BUT I DO THINK POLITICAL CONFLICTS OF DIFFERENT SORTS, STREET LEVEL FIGHTING, PROTESTS AND SO ON, MIGHT ERUPT BASED ON CERTAIN ISSUES, YOU KNOW, THAT SURROUND IT.

AND I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT SOCIAL MEDIA DOES EXTREME HARM IN THIS AND BARBARA WALTERS POINTS OUT THAT WORLD REACHED DEMOCRACY JUST WHEN SOCIAL MEDIA CAME OUT.

AFTER SOCIAL MEDIA CAME OUT, THE WORLD IS FALLING AWAY FROM ITS BIG DEMOCRATIC LEVELS AND THERE IS IMMEDIATE NEED TO REGULATE SOCIAL MEDIA, BUT -8S CURTAILING PARTIES AND JERRY MANDING, USING FEDERAL ELECTION LAW AND SO ON AND SO FORTH THAT MIGHT HELP THIS KIND OF POWER WHERE WE ARE WILLING TO BURST AT ANY MOMENT.

>> YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT TWO THINGS, BOTH THE WHAT OF THE CIVIL WAR, WHAT WILL IT LOOK LIKE AND ALSO THE WHY.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE DRIVERS.

BUT LET ME TAKE YOU BACK FOR A MOMENT JUST TO THE WHAT.

AND ONE SCHOLAR SAID THAT WHAT HAPPENED, INSTEAD OF THE TWO ARMED FORCES AS IN THE ACTUAL CIVIL WAR, IS THAT YOU WOULD HAVE SMALL GROUPS AND INDIVIDUALS USING TERRORISM AND GUERILLA WARFARE AND SOMETHING ON THE ORDER OF JANUARY 6.

YOUR THOUGHT ABOUT PERHAPS THAT'S HOW IT WOULD MANIFEST ITSELF.

YOU SAY YES, KRISTI?

>> THAT'S MUCH MORE PLAUSIBLE THAN TWO SIDES FIGHTING WHICH JUST THE GEOGRAPHY OF THAT DOESN'T WORK OUT REALLY NOW.

I MEAN THERE WERE SOME ISSUES DIVIDING THE COUNTRY FOR THE CIVIL WAR AND STATES THAT WERE SPLIT AND SO ON AND SO FORTH BUT NOTHING LIKE IT IS NOW WHERE IN SOME WAYS, URBAN-RURAL BUT THAT OBVIOUSLY CROSSES OVER ALL STATE BOUNDARIES AND SO ON.

SO, YES, I THINK THAT IF WE CAN CALL IT A CIVIL WAR, AND MAYBE NOT, YES, BUT VIOLENCE AT THOSE LOCAL LEVELS IS CERTAINLY A POSSIBILITY I THINK AND WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN SOME OF IT, RIGHT?

>> I THINK WE ARE GOING TO SEE MORE AND THAT'S WATT FBI PREDICTS IS DURING THE ELECTION PERIOD, THEY ANTICIPATE TO SEE MORE EXTREME VIEWS BEING TRANSLATED INTO VIOLENCE.

AND IT'S SCARY BECAUSE OF THE SILOED COMMUNITIES THAT WE HAVE ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

>> AND ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND I THINK SOCIAL MEDIA, AS YOU SAY, HAS CONTRIBUTED TO THIS A LOT.

AND THE DECLINE OF LOCAL MEDIA, NEWSPAPERS AND TELEVISION STATIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, I THINK IS REALLY KEY AS WELL.

THE DECLINE OF THE SITUATION WHERE EVERYBODY HAD COMMON FACTS, I THINK I WOULD PUT IT THAT WAY, WHERE YOU MIGHT HAVE DIFFERENT IDEAS ABOUT HOW TO SOLVE NATIONAL OR LOCAL PROBLEMS, BUT YOU ALL SORT OF UNDERSTOOD WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN THE SAME WAY.

>> COMMON FACTS, COMMON UNDERSTANDING, BUT PERHAPS ALSO, KRISTI, A COMMON GOAL, BECAUSE WHAT WE'VE SEEN SOME REPUBLICAN LEADERS COME OUT AND SAY RECENTLY IS THAT THEY'RE EXPECTING LINDSEY GRAHAM, FOR EXAMPLE, SAID THAT IF DONALD TRUMP IS INDICTED, THAT WE CAN EXPECT RIOTS.

MARJORIE GREEN HAS ECHOED THINGS LIKE THAT IN THE PAST.

WHAT YOU AND ANIRBAN HAVE TALKED ABOUT IS SOCIAL MEDIA PLAYING A KEY ROLE BUT ALSO THAT THERE IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND THEIR LEADERS THAT MAY BE STOKING THE FIRE.

>> YES, I MEAN THEY'RE BASICALLY PAINTING THE DEMOCRATS AS EVIL, NOT AS PEOPLE WE DISAGREE WITH, WE ALL WANT THE SAME THING BUT WE HAVE DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET THERE.

BUT AS EVIL AND IN SOME CASES PEDOPHILES AND SOME CASES RIDICULOUS AK INDICATIONS.

BUT-- ACCUSATIONS BUT IF YOU HEAR THAT ENOUGH AND YOU DON'T GET OTHER SOURCES OF NEWS,... >> IT REINFORCES IT.

TARA, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY?

>> YOU FOCUSED ON THE REPUBLICANS BUT I THINK IT'S ALSO TO A CERTAIN EXTENT TRUE OF CERTAIN PORTIONS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

YOU LOOK, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU THOUGHT OF THE DECISION BUT THE VANDALISM OF THE OF CLARENCE THOMAS AND OTHER JUSTICES HOMES.

POLITICIAN, ANYONE GOING INTO POLITICS NOW AT ANY LEVEL HAS TO HAVE SECURITY BECAUSE OF THE THREATS IF YOU MAKE A DECISION OR YOU SUPPORT LEGISLATION THAT WHATEVER GROUP DOESN'T AGREE WITH.

SO I THINK WE ARE ALREADY SEEING LITTLE COMPONENTS OF THAT CIVIL WAR.

>> AND ONE OF THE COMPONENTS ARE THE RIOTS IN THE WAKE OF THE GEORGE FLOYD MURDER AND SOME JUSTIFYING IT AS WELL, THIS IS TO BE EXPECTED WHEN YOU HAVE... >> THE DATA ON THE POST--GEORGE FLOYD DEMONSTRATIONS AND MOBILIZATIONS ARE THAT THEY WERE PRETTY PEACEFUL.

I WOULDN'T CALL THEM RIOTS.

>> 93% OF THOSE DEMONSTRATIONS WERE VERY, VERY PEACEFUL AND I WANT TO ECHO YOUR POINT HERE THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS GOING THROUGH A FUNDAMENTAL SPLIT IN ITSELF.

THE REPUBLICANS ARE EXTREMELY ANGRY AND CALLING NAMES TO OTHER REPUBLICANS BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE IN FACTS LIKE, YOU KNOW HOW CAN YOU STILL BELIEVE THAT THE LAST ELECTION WAS STOLEN?

LIKE WHAT ARE THE FACTS?

>> SOME CERTAINLY CAN.

UNDERSTAND SO WHAT THE PRESIDENT HAS TRIED TO DO IN A COME TO-- IN A COUPLE OF SPEECHES HE GAVE THIS WEEK WAS TO PUSH BACK AGAINST THAT AND WHAT HE SEES AS OTHER THREATS TO DEMOCRACY.

BUT IN THE MIDST OF TALKING ABOUT THOSE OTHER ISSUES, PRESIDENT BIDEN PROMISED MORE FUNDING TO HIRE 100,000 POLICE OFFICERS OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS.

ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS HE HAS PUSHED BACK AGAINST THE • DEFUND THE POLICE MOVEMENT • TALKED ABOUT KIDS BEING GUNNED DOWN IN SCHOOLS AND ON THE STREETS • AND FOCUSING ON THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN AS A WAY OF SETTING ASIDE $350 BILLION TO MAKE COMMUNITIES SAFER, AMONG OTHER THINGS, BUT BUT ESPECIALLY POOR AND MINORITY COMMUNITIES.

SOME ON THE LEFT SEE THIS AS A PROBLEM.

THEY'RE CRIMINAL OF WHAT THEY CONSIDER TO BE BIDEN'S LAW AND ORDER STYLE POLITICS.

TARA, WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO WHERE THE PRESIDENT IS HEADING?

>> ACTUALLY, I THINK HE IS HEADED IN REALLY THE RIGHT DIRECTION FOR A COUPLE OF REASONS.

YOU'VE MENTIONED THE DRAMATIC INCREASE IN GUN VIOLENCE.

, BOTH IN TERMS OF MASS SHOOTINGS BUT IN TERMS OF DAY-TO-DAY VIOLENCE AGAINST, YOU KNOW, FELLOW CITIZENS.

THE PANDEMIC HAS INCREASED JUST SORT OF THE MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS THAT ARE OCCURRING IN THE COUNTRY.

YOU'VE HAD SURVEIL YOU ARE OF THE POLICE-- YOU'VE HAD FAILURE OF THE POLICE TO ACT LIKE IN UVALDE WHERE THE POLICE COULD HAVE TAKEN ACTION AND DIDN'T SEEM TO KNOW WHAT TO DO AND YOU ADD TO THAT, JANUARY 6, THE ATTACKS ON THE FBI.

AND SO FOR THE PRESIDENT NOT TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE NEED TO FOCUS ON LAW AND ORDER, NOT TO DO ANYTHING, WOULD HAVE SEEMED A FAILURE ON HIS PART.

BUT I ALSO THINK IT IS A REFLECTION OF THE FACT THAT THE AVERAGE CITIZEN FEELS LESS SAFE.

AND PART OF WHAT THIS DOES IS THIS HELPS RECOGNIZE THERE IS A NEED FOR MORE POLICE BECAUSE THERE HAS BEEN A DRAMATIC DECREASE IN POLICE.

NOW SOME OF THOSE NEEDED TO GO.

BUT THERE HAS BEEN A DRAMATIC DECREASE.

SO THIS RECOGNIZES THE SENSIBILITIES OF THE PUBLIC AND THE NEED TO REACT TO THAT.

THE OTHER THING I WANT TO SAY, TOO.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CRITICS OF PRESIDENT BIDEN MENTION IS THE 1994 SORT OF LAW AND ORDER BILL THAT-- >> HE PUSHED VERY HARD FOR.

>> ONE OF THE DIFFERENCES IS THAT NOW THERE IS THE SENSIBILITY THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE OVERSIGHT OF POLICE AND THERE DOES NEED TO BE MORE REFORM.

AND I REFER BACK TO THE VERY STRONG RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE COMMISSION THAT WAS ESTABLISHED UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA AND NOW PRESIDENT BIDEN, IN A SENSE, HAS A ROAD MAP THAT CAN BE USED WITH THIS FUNDING IN ORDER TO BOTH INCREASE THE NUMBER OF POLICE, DEAL WITH CRIME, BUT ALSO DEAL WITH THE NEED FOR OVERSIGHT.

>> AND HE DID SEEM TO TRY TO STRADDLE THOSE AS BEST HE COULD BY TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE IS A MEASURABLE INCREASE IN THE MURDER RATE, BUT ALSO THE IMPORTANCE OF UNDERSTANDING THAT, AS IN ANY PROFESSION, THERE ARE A FEW BAD APPLES.

ANIRBAN, YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> A COUPLE OF THINGS HERE.

"THE NEW YORK TIMES" RECENTLY QUOTED THIS YEAR THE MODERATOR-- THE MURDER RATE IS LOWER THAN THE LAST TWO YEARS.

I WILL START BY PRAISING THE POLICE.

WHY?

BECAUSE THEY DO A LOT OF WORK IN THE UNITED STATES.

THEY CONTROL TRAFFIC, THEY'RE MENTAL HEALTH RESPONDERS.

THEY DO A WIDE VARIETY OF WORK WHERE IN OTHER SOCIETIES PEOPLE DON'T DO.

NOW THAT IS A SIGNIFICANT BURDEN ON VARIOUS POLICE OFFICERS, RIGHT?

NOW I WILL ALSO, AFTER I WANT TO POINT OUT THE EXTREME HISTORY OF POLICE BRUTALITY IN THE UNITED STATES AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE, AGAINST POOR PEOPLE.

TO THE EXTENT THAT I URGE MY VIEWERS TO SEARCH THROUGH BRUTALITY AND THERE IS A BRITANNICA ENTRY ON POLICE BRUTALITY IN THE UNITED STATES.

I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY POLICE DEPARTMENT COME OUT AND APOLOGIZE FOR CENTURIES OF POLICE BRUTALITY AND MURDER.

WE ARE STILL SEEING POLICE GUNNING DOWN PEOPLE IN THE STREETS WITH COMPLETE IMPUNITY.

SO ADDING $100,000,000 POLICE OFFICERS IS GREAT BUT WITHOUT THE FEDERAL LEGISLATION THAT TAKES AWAY QUALIFIED IMMUNITY, THAT MAKES POLICE OFFICERS ACCOUNTABLE.

I'M LOOKING AT THIS REPORT TODAY , FARMINGTON HILL POLICE DEPARTMENT APOLOGIZES THAT IT USED IMAGES OF BLACK MEN FOR TARGET PRACTICE.

ANDS ABOUT POLICE DEPARTMENT APPLAUDED POSTS.

PANHANDLER LEFT PARALYZED AFTER HE WAS TASERED BY A POLICE.

>> I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT POLICING BUT TO GET BACK TO WHAT BIDE BIDEN WAS RESPONDING TO IN THE IDEA THAT THERE IS AN INCREASE IN THE MURDER RATE JUSTIFYING THAT TURN, YOU DISAGREE.

>> 100% DISAGREE.

YOU CAN GO WITH ANECDOTAL STORIES ALL DAY.

I MEAN WE CAN.

THERE ARE BAD COPS.

THERE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE BAD COPS.

BUT WHAT WE HAVE SEEN, FACTUALLY, THAT THE MURDER RATES HAVE GONE UP OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS, THE ESTIMATE FROM "THE NEW YORK TIMES," IS THAT IT'S GOING DOWN SLIGHTLY COMPARED TO THE FIRST% OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS; WHICH IS INSANE.

ON TOP OF THAT, THE MURDER CLEARANCE RATE IS ABOUT 30 TO 40% RATHER THAN THE 90% THAT IT USED TO BE.

SO WE ARE HEADING DOWN A REALLY DARK ROAD IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

>> NEEDING MORE POLICE AND EFFECTIVE RESPONSE.

>> THE DECLINE OF THE SOLVE RATE?

THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU CALLED IT, THE CLEARANCE RATE.

WHY... >> MULTIFACETED, RIGHT?

WE HAVE A LOT OF VIEWS OF WHAT ANIRBAN HAS SUGGESTED WHERE-- HERE'S THE PROBLEM.

OUR SOCIETY LOOKS AT CONFLICT.

CONFLICT GETS ATTENTION.

RIGHT?

YOU ARE DRIVING DOWN THE ROAD.

THERE IS A WRECK.

YOU ARE GOING TO SLOW DOWN AND TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.

NOBODY GOES ON THE HIGHWAY AND EVERYTHING IS RUNNING GREAT AND EVERYBODY GOES LOOK HOW GREAT EVERYTHING IS.

WE ARE DRAWN TO CONFLICT.

IF IT BLEEDS, IT LEADS.

IN OUR SILOED COMMUNITY WE ARE IN NOW, WE ARE FED THE SAME STUFF THAT WE WANT TO SEE AND CLICK ON.

>> A SELF FULFILLING DYNAMIC, IF YOU WILL.

WE REALLY NEED TO COME BACK TO THIS, BUT RIGHT NOW I'M BEING TOLD WE HAVE TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT TOPIC, WHICH IS RELATED TO A DIFFERENT BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT; THE SUPREME COURT.

SOME OF THE COURT'S OBSERVERS WORRY NAT THAT THE COURT IS SLOWLY ERODING THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

THEY POINT TO THE DOBBS ABORTION DECISION EARLIER THIS YEAR AS ONE EXAMPLE.

ANOTHER IS THE COURT'S RULING IN THE KENNEDY CASE, A RULING THAT UPHELD A HIGH SCHOOL COACH'S RIGHT TO PRAY.

ON THE FIELD AFTER GAMES.

NOT ONLY THE COURT, BUT SOME BELIEVE THAT REPUBLICAN PARTY LEADERS ALSO WANT MORE CHURCH-STATE INTEGRATION, EVEN THOUGH POST POLLS SHOW THAT MOST AMERICANS DO NOT.

KRISTI, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF ALL OF THIS?

>> I MAKE OF IT THAT SOME OF THESE REPUBLICANS, IN PARTICULARLY SOME OF THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES, ARE HIGHLY HYPOCRITICAL IN MY VIEW.

I MEAN THEY'RE STANDING ON, IF YOU LOOK AT ALITO'S PLANS, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE OPINION IN DOBBS, HE IS BASICALLY MAKING THE ARGUMENT THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE -- THAT WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT ABORTION AT ALL OR SUPPORT THE RIGHTS TO HAVE AN ABORTION BECAUSE ABORTION WASN'T MENTIONED IN THE 1776 OR 1789.

THEY DIDN'T TALK ABOUT ABORTION.

SO IF IT'S NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION, YOU CAN'T, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T CONSTRUCT ANY RIGHTS AROUND THAT.

AT THE SAME TIME THOUGH, THEY SEEM TO BE SAYING IT'S JUST FINE OR SEEM TO BE THINKING THAT IT'S JUST FINE THAT THIS IS A RELIGIOUS STATE, BUT THEN THEY'RE FAILING TO LOOK AT WHAT ALL-- WHAT WASHINGTON AND JEFFERSON AND EVERYBODY WHO, JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY WHO SIGNED THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE OR THE CONSTITUTION BELIEVED IS THAT WE WANTED CLEAR SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

SO I'M UPSET.

IN A MANNER OF SPEAKING.

AND I STILL REMEMBER MY PARENTS IN 1954 WHO WERE UNITARIANS BEING TREMENDOUSLY UPSET ABOUT ADDING THE "UNDER GOD" TO THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE AND TALKING ABOUT THAT ENDLESSLY.

THAT WAS JUST TERRIBLE AS FAR AS THEY WERE CONCERNED.

>> A LOT OF THAT, WHICH I LEARNED FROM MY BRILLIANT PANELISTS, A LOT OF THE ADDING IN GOD WE TRUST IN MONEY AND COURTROOMS, WAS THAT A BYPRODUCT OF THE 1960s AND 70s, A POLITICAL MOMENT IF YOU WILL AND IT SEEMS THAT TARA, WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW MAY BE A REFLECTION OF PARTISANSHIP OF THIS POLITICAL MOMENT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> IT ABSOLUTELY IS.

LET'S TAKE ABORTION.

ABORTION WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT REPUBLICANS OPPOSED, REALLY UNTIL THE LATE 1960s EARLY 1970s WHEN THEY WANTED TO STORAGE FORGE CLOSER TIES WITH THE RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS AND RELIGIOUS GROUPS TO PULL THEM INTO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY SO ABORTION BEGINS TO BECOME A BIGGER AND BIGGER ISSUE FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

AND NOW IT HAS BEEN PROMOTED AS A WAY TO ENSURE THAT THOSE WHO OPPOSE ABORTION, YOU KNOW, THEIR RIGHTS ARE BEING REFLECTED, TOO.

AND SO WHAT YOU SEE IS THIS MERGING OF, VERY CLEARLY MERGING OF THE POLITICAL WITH THE RELIGIOUS AND NOW THAT IT'S BEING PUSHED FURTHER BY THE COURT, AND THERE ARE MEMBERS OF THE COURT, ALITO IS ONE, WHO FIRMLY BELIEVES THAT ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH AMERICAN SOCIETY IS THAT THE MORALITY HAS BEEN TAKEN OUT OF THE GOVERNANCE OF THE COUNTRY.

WHEREAS IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT JAMES MADISON WAS TRYING TO DO, HE OPPOSED, FOR EXAMPLE, ANY EFFORTS TO USE TAXES TO FUND ANY GOVERNMENT AGENCY.

>> YEAH, SO WHEN YOU READ THE FIRST A.M., THERE ARE THESE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN-- WHEN YOU RIDE THE FIRST AMENDMENT THERE ARE DIFFERENCES ABOUT THE ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION AND FREE EXERCISE AND THERE HAS BEEN DISAGREEMENT BY WHAT THAT MEANS.

I AGREE WITH YOU THAT THE SUPREME COURT IS FACILITATING THIS.

DOESN'T THIS GO BACK TO THE YEARS OF REAGAN AND MORAL MAJORITY AND WANTING SCHOOL PRAYER.

>> THAT'S WHAT TARA WAS TALKING ABOUT.

HOW IT CAME ABOUT AS A KIND OF, YOU KNOW, DRIVE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO EXPAND ITSELF.

>> I JUST DON'T AGREE THAT IT'S COMPLETE POLITICAL ISSUE.

THE ABORTION COMPONENT, I THINK, COMES DOWN TO A QUESTION OF WHEN LIFE STARTS.

AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY THE FUNDAMENTAL THUNK THAT'S AT THE HOA-- THING THAT'S AT THE HEART OF THIS.

IF WE CANNOT STAY LESS EMOTIONAL AND POINTING FINGERS AT THE REPUBLICANS AND THE DEMOCRATS AND ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE ISSUES AT LAND, WE ARE IN A LOT OF TROUBLE.

>> IT SEEMS LIKE THAT IS WHAT USED TO HAPPEN.

I MEAN WHEN, AS TARA POINTS OUT, ABORTION OR THINKING ABOUT ABORTION WAS NOT A REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRATIC ISSUE.

THERE WERE DOCTORS DEFINITELY ON BOTH SIDES AND PEOPLE WERE TALKING ABOUT WHEN DID LIFE START AND WHEN WAS IT REASONABLE TO-- WHAT ARE THE COMPETING CLAIMS OF THE MOTHER'S HEALTH AND THE LIFE OF THE BABY AND SO ON.

I THINK WE WERE DOING THAT THEN.

BUT NOW IT'S BECOME AN ABSOLUTIST KIND OF... >> ANIRBAN, I'M SORRY... >> THIS IS A GREAT CONVERSATION.

I JUST ASK MY VIEWERS TO CHECK OUT THIS BOOK CALLED "THE GOD STRATEGY" AND LOOK AT 75 YEARS OF SPEECHES OF PRESIDENTS TO SEE HOW AND WHEN GOD GETS INVOKED AND IT'S BASICALLY NIXON AND REAGAN ONWARDS THAT IT HAS BECOME THIS KIND OF THING.

AND I ALSO WANTED TO ADD NATIONAL PRAYER BREAKFAST.

WHAT IS THAT FOR?

>> IT'S FOR PRAYER AND BREAKFAST.

I'M SORRY TO HAVE TO CUT YOU OFF BUT POINT WELL TAKEN.

IT IS NOW TIME FOR TO US GO TO THE GRADE BOOKS AND SO KRISTI, WE ARE GOING TO START WITH YOU F. >> WELL, IF YOU REMEMBER SARAH PEL AN, SHE JUST LOST A SPECIAL ELECTION TO IMPLEMENT RANKED CHOICE VOTING AND THIS WAS THE FIRST USE, PELAN CRITICIZES THE SYSTEM AFTER LOSING AND SHE GETS MY F. SHE SAID IT WAS SOLD AS A WAY TO MAKE ELECTIONS BETTER.

BUT NOW IT DIDN'T ELECT HER, SHE BELIEVES IT'S A WAY TO RIG ELECTIONS.

>> I GUESS SHE WAS BUSY LOOKING AT RUSSIA FROM HER BACKYARD.

MY F GOES TO SEVERAL LOUISVILLE EX-POLICE DETECTIVES WHO KNOWINGLY FALSIFIED THE WARRANT THAT LED TO THE DEADLY POLICE RAID TO THE BRIONNA TAYLOR APARTMENT.

THEY CONSPIRED TO COVER UP THE LIES.

NOW ONE IS AWAITING SENTENCING.

IT BREAKS MY HEART TO SEE HOW BLUE LIVES LEAD TO LOSS OF BLACK LIVES.

>> BEN, YOUR F. >> I AGREE.

GET RID OF THE BAD COPS.

MY F GOES TO THE MACHETE FLEEING FELON WHO IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF BEING SOFT ON CRIME.

HIS PRIOR CONVICTIONS INVOLVE KIDNAPPING, FALSE IMPRISONMENT, POSSESSION OF COCAINE, POSSESSION OF FIREARM BY A CONVICTED FELON, BATTERY ON LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AND YET HE IS STILL OUT ON THE STREET RUNNING AROUND NAKED THROWING MACHETES AT PEOPLE.

>> MY F GOES TO THE HYPOCRISY OF MANY REPUBLICANS LIKE SENATOR TEDISCO CRUZ WHO OPPOSE STUDENT DEBT RELIEF AND THEY BASED THE ARGUMENTS LESS ON THE ECONOMIC IMPACT AND MORE ON STEREOTYPES THAT THOSE WHO WILL BENEFIT FROM THIS ARE SLACKER BA REEFT AS OR USELESS LIBERAL ARTS DEGREES.

NOW MOST OF THESE SAME REPUBLICAN CRITICS HAVE LIBERAL ARTS UNDERGRADUATE DEGREES AND IN ADDITION, MANY OF THEM INCLUDING SOME MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, BENEFITS FROM THE DEBT RELIEF FOR SMALL BUSINESSES.

>> HOW QUICKLY THINGS CHANGE.

SO SOMEBODY HAS DONE SOMETHING WELL OR WE HAVE SOME POSITIVE NEWS TO SHARE.

>> MY A IS TO THE PERSON WHO DEFEATED SARAH PELAN IN THE SPECIAL ELECTION IN ALASKA.

THE FIRST ELECTION TO IMPLEMENT THIS NEW RANKED CHOICE METHOD OF VOTING: FORMER STATE LEGISLATURE, MEMBER OF THE ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME AND WILL BECOME THE FIRST NATIVE ALASKAN AND WOMAN TO SERVE IN CONGRESS FROM ALASKA.

>> MY A GOES TO DOLLY 2.

A NEW ARTIFICIAL SYSTEM THAT CAN CREATE REALISTIC IMAGES IN ART FROM A DISCRIMINATION IN THE NATURAL LANGUAGE SO THE PICTURE YOU ARE SEEING NOW IS A PAINTING OF A FOX SITTING IN A FIELD AT SN SUNRISE IN THE STYLE OF MONET.

THEY CAN MAKE THE PICTURE FOR YOU.

IT'S A BRILLIANT WEBSITE.

>> MY A IS GOING TO DUKE RESEARCHERS THAT ARE ONE STEP CLOSER IN HELPING ONE IN SIX ADULTS WALK A LITTLE EASIER.

THEY HAVE HAD AN ADDITIONAL MEDICAL BREAKTHROUGH FROM A 2020 BREAKTHROUGH THEY HAD THAT IS GOING TO LEAD TO AT LEAST SOME STUDIES IN 2023 PUTTING THAT MATERIAL IN PEOPLE'S KNEES TO SEE IF IT ACTUALLY IS GOING TO WORK AS WELL AS IT DOES IN THE LAB.

>> EXCELLENT.

AND TARA, FINISH US OUT.

>> MY A TO THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE.

AS THE PANDEMIC AND GLOBAL CONFLICT HAVE IMPACTED FOOD SUPPLIES, THERE IS A NEED TO ENCOURAGE YOUNG PEOPLE TO GO INTO FARMING.

AND SO 300 MILLION HAS BEEN SET ASIDE TO DO JUST THAT.

>> THAT'S FANTASTIC.

WELL, THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR TONIGHT HERE IN THE STUDIO.

BUT WE WOULD LOVE TO CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION WITH YOU.

WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN IF YOU, AND IF YOU WANT TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN OR SHARE IT WITH OTHERS, GO TO WCNY.ORG.

I'M NINA MOORE.

FOR ALL OF US HERE AT "IVORY TOWER," GOOD NIGHT.

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