(energetic music) - Class action lawsuits have been filed by those affected by the train derailment in East Palestine, as questions about the environmental impact persist.

15 people have been named to the first non-profit board that will manage Cleveland's iconic West Side Market.

And Northeast Ohio gets international attention as LeBron James and the NFL's Kelce brothers make history.

"Ideas" is next.

(energetic music continues) Hello and welcome to "Ideas."

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thanks for joining us.

Class action lawsuits have been filed and concerns raised about how a train derailment evacuation and controlled burn were handled.

People living in East Palestine have been cleared to return home.

A reporter arrested during Governor DeWine's media briefing captures almost as much attention as the train derailment being covered.

In Cincinnati, defense lawyers get their chance to cross-examine the lead investigator in the federal racketeering trial of Larry Householder and Matt Borges.

Cleveland's West Side Market will be managed by a non-profit board and the new members, many of them prominent northeast Ohioans, have been named.

LeBron James passes a major milestone, and writes himself into the NBA history books.

Stalwart Brown's lineman, Joe Thomas is the first ballot NFL Hall-of-Famer.

And the Kelce brothers of Cleveland Heights prepare for Super Bowl LVII and talk up their beloved hometown.

Joining me to discuss these stories, and other news this week, in Columbus, Ohio public radio, and television State House News Bureau Chief, Karen Kasler, in Cleveland, Idea Stream Public Media's Akron, Canton reporter, Anna Huntsman and general assignment reporter, Abigail Bottar.

Let's get ready to round table.

Class action lawsuits are already being filed after the massive train derailment, and toxic chemical release and burn in East Palestine.

The derailment underscores concerns safety advocates have expressed about the transport of chemicals on rail, which the Federal Railroad Administration says is still the safest way to move dangerous cargo over long distances.

Abigail, you spent much of your week in East Palestine.

How were residents reacting to the derailment, and evacuation?

- Yeah, I mean people were really worried.

The evacuation order came late Sunday night, just a couple days after the train crashed.

And I would say people are still very worried about what the long-term effects of exposure to these chemicals will be.

Like you said, the evacuation order was lifted on Wednesday, but people were anxious to return home so soon.

The chemicals were released only on Monday, and there was concern that it would be a long time before they could return home.

So some still don't think it's safe, and are hesitant to come back.

- You could understand that.

And when you think about how this thing played out, I mean, it was national news.

But the idea that we have a derailment, we have toxic chemicals, we have a plan to burn it, and then you saw this mushroom cloud over the city, you imagine that when people are returning, you're not feeling 100% safe.

The mayor had said something like, "This is not gonna get swept under the rug."

And later part of that quote we didn't hear was that he's going to make sure that Norfolk Southern does what it says it was gonna do.

What does it say it's going to do?

- Yeah, I mean, they say that safety is their main priority and their main concern.

They've, I think, done some things to try to help residents.

They opened a family assistance center, and say they donated money to the Red Cross to help community shelters.

They're also reimbursing community members for costs incurred due to the evacuation, so paying people back for like the clothes they had to buy, the hotels they had to pay for while they weren't allowed to be in their homes.

And they're also reimbursing businesses in the area for business loss during the evacuation.

I mean, it's still unclear what happened to cause this crash and like we heard the mayor say, now trains are right away going back through.

So what's stopping this from happening again, I guess is the question that the mayor and residents have.

- You talked to some environmental advocates too that talked about not just this particular train.

I live four blocks from train tracks.

What's on those trains?

And I think that's the question is that people don't know.

- Yeah, that is the question.

I spoke with the director of the advocacy group, Penn Environment, and they've been advocating, I mean, for safety and transparency from railroad companies to stop this sort of accident from happening for years.

I mean, we just don't know what's going through our communities.

I grew up a quarter of a mile away from the train tracks, and I never once thought like, what are on those trains?

And now it seems like that's a big issue, and something we should be aware of.

And the argument from activists and advocates for this is that communities can't make contingency plans or safety plans or specifically know what's going on about public health, unless they know what's on those trains.

- I just wanted to jump in and add that I also grew up near train tracks, which kind of confirms to all of us that it's gonna be on our minds.

I mean, they're just such a part of our daily lives.

But the tracks in my case actually went behind my high school and my middle school.

So I remember growing up, and having trained derailment papers on the wall saying what will we do if this would ever happened.

But I never thought twice about it.

I mean, they just roll on by every single day or whenever.

But I feel like this is really gonna be on top of mind for a lot of people now is thinking about what is actually on those trains.

And it sounds like we don't always know.

- Talk about the class action lawsuits.

There are a number of folks that live in the area and were affected by it that are filing these lawsuits saying, we've had damage.

Whether it's long-term environmental stuff or not, we've already incurred a lot of damage.

- Yeah, definitely.

I mean, and I think there are some of the arguments that their houses have gone down in value because I mean, I think houses by railroads are, you know, now gonna be deemed maybe unsafe by home buyers, especially by the one where this accident just happened.

And yeah, I mean, like I said, Norfolk Southern is, you know, giving them some money right now, but I mean, is that enough for the emotional damage that I'm sure has occurred, the days out of work, out of school?

And then, yeah, like I said, it's unclear what the long-term effects of this will be.

So I think they're getting out ahead of it.

- Karen, what's the governor saying in terms of not just this particular accident where he was on the scene by Sunday, and by the way, there was some criticism that people weren't being told what was in those cars for a couple of days.

It happened on Friday.

By Sunday is when we started getting this information, and when the governor was saying, you know, you guys got to get out of here in terms of the people that live near the area.

But what is he saying about improvement and safety statewide as it regards all of these train lines?

- Well, he spoke to reporters at an event on, I think, Tuesday or Wednesday when he was back in town.

He's been going back up to do press conferences up in East Palestine and then coming down here to do other things.

He said he's very concerned.

He's concerned about what happened here, and also what might happen in the future.

And so I think that there is a real question about what do people know about what's being transported on those train tracks?

And a lot of those train tracks go through more communities of color, poorer communities, and a lot of those folks don't have the voice that other folks do in terms of making their concerns known.

And so I think DeWine is worried about this.

He's also saying that he expects Norfolk Southern to pay the cost related to the derailment and the fire.

He says they're the ones that created the problem.

And so he expects that they will be the ones who pay for it.

(dramatic music) - NewsNation's Evan Lambert was arrested, while doing his job covering a press conference by Governor Mike DeWine in East Palestine this week.

The governor said he hopes the charges just go away.

Karen, so this comes down to the adjutant general's characterization that Lambert was about to do him harm.

He told investigators, "I instinctively put my hands on his chest to keep him from bumping into me, which I felt was inevitable if I had not protected myself."

And I have to say, looking at the video tape, there are police officers all around.

It seemed to me that Harris was spoiling for a confrontation.

And I'm not sure anyone who saw that would buy the fact that he thought he was about to be put into harm's way.

- Well, the whole thing is really weird, if you know the parties involved.

I mean, I've interviewed Major General Harris many times.

He's usually a very easygoing guy.

This was an unusual way to see him in terms of his behavior.

This was a press conference that was happening in a gymnasium in East Palestine.

And what was happening was that Evan Lambert was doing a live shot for this national news network, NewsNation.

This live shot had been scheduled for 5:15 according to his photographer.

So when DeWine started the press conference about the same time, I mean, reporters are used to this where TV reporters will be doing live shots, while press conferences are going on.

And it just happens.

It's annoying, but it just happens.

And DeWine himself has been in this situation, and I find it very hard to believe that he was concerned about this.

And in fact, he's been doing a lot of damage control and saying that he feels that the reporter had every right to be there, that the charges should be dismissed.

He's never been bothered by anything like this, but unfortunately his name is attached to this story because it happened at his press conference.

And so it's a very, very strange set of circumstances that happened really fast.

I mean, this only happened in the span of about two minutes where he was told to cut the live shot.

- And he did.

- The confrontation happened.

He did, the confrontation happened, then all of a sudden he's pushed out the door, and on the floor in handcuffs and being told he's under arrest.

It's an extraordinary development for something that should have been fairly routine, a press conference informing people of what's happening in their community.

- You could see Channel 19 Sia Nyorkor was there, and she's videotaping with her cell phone, and saying, "Gee, I'm sorry this happened, Evan."

And, is saying to the police, "He's doing his job."

Anna, when you look at this, you see a reporter, you can't just stop in mid-sentence, and so he's saying, "Look, we're being told we need to wrap up."

And so we do wrap up and then all of this then proceeds.

What's interesting is they're charging him with trespassing.

I'm not sure they understand what trespassing means.

- I saw that charge and I was also very confused.

I mean, it's a press conference.

He's a member of the press.

He's obviously allowed to be in that building.

I was watching the body cam as well, and I thought it was interesting that the building manager came over and said, "I'm the building manager, and I'm telling you you need to leave."

And they're all like, yep, that's what you need to do.

I mean, it just seemed like it really had escalated at that point.

There were so many people around there.

But I also wanted to shout out Sia Nyorkor for what she was doing there, but I have seen other reporters who were there saying, we didn't even know this was going.

Like we didn't know this was happening.

- [Mike] Right, they were in the front paying attention to the press conference.

- Yeah, they eventually heard commotion, but I mean, just for them to say that this was distracting and that he was being too loud, and then you have reporters there, and even DeWine himself saying, I didn't notice it.

I mean, what's the real story here, I guess?

- And also the law enforcement, like you mentioned, Mike, were all around as this was happening, non-uniformed law enforcement and also troopers in uniform, and including the one that was wearing the body camera.

It's really amazing how quickly this did escalate into a situation where a reporter was cuffed, and on the floor, told to stop resisting, when he said, "I'm not resisting.

I'm trying to do my job here."

And at one point, he says, "This is what it's like to be a Black reporter in 2023," which is a terrible thing to think about that this is something that has happened before, and that this is something that maybe has happened to Evan Lambert before.

- I mean, we have the governor basically saying, this shouldn't have happened and he'd like it to go away.

I'm not sure it will, nor should it, because if you just said, okay, well we're not gonna charge you then, then there isn't any accountability for what actually happened in that gymnasium, and that foyer and then dragging him out.

Do you suspect that the governor will talk with the major general?

Do you suspect that apology would be coming?

- He's probably already talked to the adjuvant general at this point.

And, I mean, who knows what the next steps will be?

I can imagine that Evan Lambert's charges will be dismissed.

The Society of Professional Journalists wants an apology issued from the East Palestine Police Department.

And that's another thing about this video is it's hard to tell who is with whom.

I mean, again, non-uniformed officers, the two officers who pull Lambert out of the gym are both like wearing green sweatshirts.

The building supervisor that Anna mentioned is wearing a fire department T-shirt.

It's hard to tell who these folks are as they're telling Evan Lambert to get out.

And so I can imagine the confusion of him saying, "Hey, this is my assignment.

I'm here to do a job.

I just want to listen.

I just want to join the other reporters over across the room and listen," and he's being blocked.

His path is being blocked and he's been being told to get out until finally he's being dragged out.

- I'm gonna tell a reporter right now to get in, and that is Andy Chow who's gonna be joining us in just a second to talk about the trial that's happening in Cincinnati, the federal trial on corruption charges of Larry Householder and Matt Borges.

But before we get to that, I wanted you to weigh in on this too, Andy.

You have done a lot of this kind of reporting, standing at press conferences, I think about throughout the entire pandemic, and all kinds of other things.

And I imagine you might have been just as defiant.

- [Andy] Yeah, yeah, and I try not to talk about this too much, but unfortunately the position that Evan's been in, I'm familiar with that position.

When you're in a line of reporters, and you happen to be maybe the biggest reporter, the tallest reporter, the only reporter of color, you end up getting a little more hostility from officials or unfortunately, law enforcement on scene compared to the other reporters who are there.

So you know, like Karen said, we don't know the whole story.

I've also talked to Major General Harris many times.

This seems very uncharacteristic of him, but I do understand what Evan's saying.

Unfortunately, this does happen to reporters of color.

(dramatic music) - FBI Special Agent Blane Wetzel has been laying out various aspects of the government's complicated racketeering case against former Ohio House Speaker Larry Householder, and former Ohio Republican Party Chairman Matt Borges in a Cincinnati courtroom.

Yesterday, defense attorneys had their chance to begin cross-examination.

Our State House News Editor, Andy Chow, has been covering the trial.

And that's why we've asked him to jump onto the conversation today.

Andy, we're starting to hear some stories of the case against Matt Borges, where previously most of the testimony was focused just on Householder.

- [Andy] Yeah, when you look at the timeline of events and the accusations that have been stacked up, it's no doubt that Larry Householder has been accused of playing a role in this alleged bribery scheme from the very beginning around 2016, 2017, with a meeting with FirstEnergy executives.

So the prosecution with Blane Wetzel, the special FBI agent on the stand, has been working chronologically through that timeline.

So in these later days, we have finally reached the point where Matt Borges and the accusations about him have come out.

And what we've known ever since he was arrested is that there have been hidden camera footage, and secret phone call recordings of Borges talking to an FBI informant by the name of Tyler Furman, who was working for the referendum campaign.

So after days and days of testimony, hearing about Speaker Householder, and the allegations against him, we started seeing the evidence into the allegations against Matt Borges, which are, that he's accused of offering a check of $15,000 to Tyler Furman in exchange for information to stop the referendum campaign, and to ultimately protect the nuclear power plant bailout.

- That's what's interesting is that we've often been talking, when we set up this story, that it's about HB-6 and the fact the money came for the passage of HB-6, but that's not where it ended.

There was a referendum to overturn it, and a lot of the shenanigans that are accused are related to trying to quell that.

- [Andy] Yeah, if anybody wants to like go back, and retell the story, it's gonna have to be a Netflix series and not a movie because there are many episodes to this.

And so there's the buildup, there's the passing of the bill, but then there's the referendum campaign.

And if people remember back in 2019, after HB-6 passed and opponents of the bailout wanted to put a referendum on the ballot, there were signature-gatherers all around the state trying to collect signatures for their petition.

And then the news started coming out that there were anti-referendum petitioners out there to block the referendum.

And at some point, news started coming out that those signature-gatherers were being followed somehow.

And what we learned through evidence in court was that FirstEnergy paid for private investigators to follow these referendum signature-gatherers around.

And that's how the anti-referendum campaign was able to get their locations and be able to try to block them.

- Whenever you're following a trial like this, it's obviously quite interesting when the state lays out its case because now you're getting the details of stuff that you've already reported.

But what you don't usually know is what's the defense.

All you usually hear is, you know, I'm innocent and I'll have my day in court.

Now we're starting to hear a little bit about the defense.

It isn't the defense putting on its case, but it's cross-examination.

What kinds of things are we seeing from the lawyers on cross-examination from the defense?

- [Andy] You know, unfortunately it's kind of hard to draw a clear connection of the questions that the defense team is asking and their argument.

At this point, they're going all the way back to the beginning with Agent Wetzel, and going through the different things that he testified on and just asking follow up questions, not necessarily anything that's too obvious as to why the things that Agent Wetzel said would not be something that would be illegal or not.

Now one common theme in this cross-examination from Householder's attorneys so far is asking him about things that he went over, asking Agent Wetzel about the things that he went over, and then asking, "Is that not routine?"

Using the word routine or usual or normal, and asking, "Well, doesn't everybody do it this way or that way?"

So it does seem like maybe that's part of the argument they're trying to make.

Although Wetzel will usually respond by saying it's not for him to characterize what's normal or not normal.

I think if you can sort of like try to read into that a little more, I think what he's also trying to say is whether it's normal or not normal, he and the government are trying to make the case that these particular activities were illegal.

- Right, and the defense is saying this is politics, and everyone does it.

(dramatic music) The future of Cleveland's iconic West Side Market will be guided by a new non-profit governing body.

Mayor Justin Bibb announced the creation of the Cleveland Public Market Corporation yesterday, and announced its 15 members.

So we're hearing a lot about the West Side Market.

It's something, Anna, that people in this town talk about a lot.

It is a gem of the community, and has been not running at 100% steam.

The idea that we're getting a new board, that's a huge change in governance in the way this thing will be operated.

- Right, because it was run by the city for so long.

And obviously there were, as you mentioned, some major problems here.

And I think, as you mentioned, obviously a lot of people love this.

It's a huge part of the city and I think that is reflected in who's been picked for the board because you have people, either are retired or currently with various foundations.

You know, you have Dave Abbott, the retired president of the George Gund Foundation.

We have a city council person, Kerry McCormack.

I mean, I'm not gonna go through all of them, but it is a lot of people who are well known in the community.

I know Mike, you've probably interviewed half of them.

- Yeah, I know a few of them, but go ahead.

Name them all.

No, I'm just kidding.

- Oh okay, I got to pull it up.

- Kerry Carpenter is gonna be there with Huntington Bank.

Tom McNair, who is the executive director of Ohio City Incorporated.

Obviously that's right in his market, and right in his bread basket there.

And Amanda Dempsey, who was on the show that we did the "Sound of Ideas" program that we did, talking about the West Side Market.

We had it at Market Garden Brewery right next door.

And it was right as all this talk was starting, she formerly was the sort of the staff person for the city overseeing the market.

She'd worked at Ohio City Incorporated as well, now works in the neighborhood at Mitchell's Ice Cream.

She's on there as well.

And I think a lot of the tenants there, as well as people in the community are happy to have that kind of institutional knowledge.

- I'm sure, exactly.

And these are all people who I assume really are passionate about the city and want to see it thrive.

I mean, they're very highly involved here.

I will say their first task is to hire an executive director.

So that will be interesting to see who is kind of picked for that, who's in the running for that.

But as you mentioned, Mike, this is just kind of the first phase.

And this was something that was talked about in the mayoral campaign with Justin Bibb talking about it a lot.

And so now we are finally starting to see some sort of action.

And I will mention too, this report that came out as well, kind of taking a look at where are the places we can improve, but what are the best parts of what this is, and what it provides to the community.

And obviously we talked about some of the problems, such as the lack of heating and air conditioning, vacant stalls, lacking seating and dining areas, and obviously some of those maintenance issues as well.

- One more name I'll throw out there, Randy McShepard, who we've talked to a lot.

He's with RPM International, founder of Rid-All Green Partnership.

Another, you know, sort of bedrock of the community-type person.

This is really exciting to see the kind of folks, and the kind of pedigrees that they have, and what they might do for the market.

(dramatic music) LeBron James likes to refer to himself as just a kid from Akron.

Now he's just the NBA's all-time scoring leader from Akron.

Karen, thoughts about LeBron becoming the champion?

I mean, everyone loves him in Cleveland 'cause he brought us a 2016 title, but he left twice.

- Yeah, I got to see him play in 2016, and that was really amazing in that playoff series there.

I guess I'm just really glad I'm able to see him play, that I'm living in this time where I've seen Michael Jordan play, and now LeBron and so it's pretty amazing.

The way that the whole game stopped when he hit that record was just really, really cool.

I mean, I felt bad for the Oklahoma City Thunder 'cause the game was still going on essentially.

- [Anna] Yeah, I don't feel bad.

- But yeah, I guess I don't really feel bad, but you know, it was a really special moment.

- [Mike] What a moment.

- And for Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to be right there too, and it's just really amazing.

- And Kareem by the way is my favorite person.

They said, you know, do you feel bad that the record fell?

And he and LeBron have been a little frosty.

And he said, "If you asked me, would I like my record to stay for another 100 years or I could spend a little time with my grandkids, I would be down on the floor eating Uncrustables, and putting together Legos."

Like his point is, I had my time.

It doesn't take it away.

He gets his.

It was just an awesome thing.

- [Anna] I love that.

- But LeBron, he's the GOAT.

Turns out, Joe Thomas is the GOAT as well in terms of being an offensive lineman for the Cleveland Browns.

He was inducted last night on the first ballot to the NFL Hall of Fame right here in Canton.

Big Browns fan, are you, Anna?

Are you giving me a no?

- I'm a big Canton fan.

- [Mike] Okay, good.

- Go Hall of Fame, yeah, go Browns.

- I think Browns fans need to enjoy this one 'cause it's gonna be a little while, potentially, until we see another.

- It's so Browns though that the person inducted in the Hall of Fame is a guy whose job is just to show up for work every day, which is what he did.

The guy never missed games and just played, you know?

It's not flashy, nothing exciting.

He just gets his job done.

- And a really funny, funny guy too, from what I've read, yeah.

- Absolutely.

What is a little more flashy is the Super Bowl, and it's super hype now for Cleveland Heights, thanks to the Kelce brothers, Jason and Travis.

They're gonna face each other in Super Bowl LVII, Sunday in Arizona.

Jason's the center for the Philadelphia Eagles, who I'm rooting for.

Sorry, everybody.

Travis is a tight end for the Kansas City Chiefs.

They both grew up in Cleveland Heights, played their high school ball for the Heights High Tigers, and they still love to profess their love for their hometown.

They've been doing it every chance they get this week, which is really awesome.

The folks in Cleveland Heights, as we heard from Ygal Kaufman earlier in a report, lit up the town and lit up the school in the colors of the Eagles and the Chiefs.

And flags of both of the teams fly from their former childhood home.

First brothers, Karen, to face one another in a Super Bowl.

- Yeah, it's just really amazing because both these guys really, I mean, they call their podcast, I think, is it The New Heights or something like that?

So they're really proud of their heritage here.

And NPR talked to a reporter, who was sent from the Kansas City Star to come, and kind of delve into this yesterday.

And he was talking about how fun it is to see the community coming together behind these two guys.

Though, who do you root for?

I mean, unless you're like you, Mike, where you've got a team, you know, who do you pick?

- Yeah, and I don't really have a team.

It's just that Mike Edelman, who works here is a Philadelphian and is really into it.

And I said, all right, well that's a buddy of mine.

I'm just gonna go ahead and pick them.

- Oh, well, there you go.

I mean, I think that's what everybody's asking their mom, Donna Kelce.

I think, they're the stars of this, but she's kind of the bigger star, I feel, because have you seen her jersey?

She's got like one half is the Kansas City, the other half is the Eagles.

But I saw there's a petition going around to have her do the coin toss.

- [Mike] That would be awesome.

- Wouldn't that be kind of awesome though?

I mean, because, you know, she's a little bit unbiased, I suppose.

I think she said she just is gonna cheer when there's a touchdown.

(laughs) - And then we could wager on that coin toss, and pay 20% tax on it.

- [Anna] Oh, there you go, yeah.

(dramatic music) - Monday on the "Sound of Ideas" on 89.7 WKSU, Rick will be back to lead a discussion on an initiative that challenges people to get a better understanding of the issues transit riders face by relying solely on public transit for a week.

It's happening right now.

And among those taking the challenge, Tioga County Executive, Chris Ronayne.

We'll talk to him about his experience, and what the region needs more of transit-wise.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thanks for watching and stay safe.

(lighthearted music)