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♪♪ >>> SOME OF THE MOST CRITICAL WORKERS IN OUR STATE ARE SUFFERING FROM SEVERE STRESS AND BURNOUT, WITH MANY LOOKING TO CHANGE CAREERS.

WELCOME TO "CHAT BOX."

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, IN CASE YOU DIDN'T GUESS, TEACHERS.

THE CORNERSTONE OF OUR EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM, THE NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, THEY'RE THE LARGEST TEACHERS UNION IN THEIR MEMBERS AND FOUND THAT AN ALARMING 55% SAY THEY'RE PLANNING TO LEAVE TEACHING SOONER THAN EXPECTED.

WE'VE GOT A PANEL OF EDUCATORS LINED UP FROM AROUND THE STATE TO GIVE FIRSTHAND ACCOUNTS OF WHAT IT'S LIKE OUT THERE IN THE STATE'S CLASSROOMS BUT LET'S START WITH PETAL ROBERTSON, AN ENGLISH TEACHER AND SECRETARY TREASURER OF THE NJAE, THE NEW JERSEY EDUCATION ASSOCIATION.

THEY ARE THE STATE'S LARGEST TEACHERS UNION.

HEY, PETAL, WELCOME BACK TO "CHAT BOX."

>> HI, DAVID.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY.

>> SO, THESE NUMBERS ARE ALARMING.

90% OF MEMBERS SAY BURNOUT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM.

ALMOST 90% SAY THEY'VE WATCHED MORE EDUCATORS LEAVE THE PROFESSION OR RETIRE EARLY.

80% SAY THE TEACHER SHORTAGE IS PUTTING MORE OF A BURDEN ON THEM.

HOW DO THOSE NUMBERS REFLECT THE REALITY THAT YOU SEE HERE IN NEW JERSEY?

>> SO, FIRST, LET ME JUST START BY SAYING THAT WE ARE AN EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, AND WE FOCUS ON ALL OF OUR STAFF IN OUR SCHOOLS, AND THAT BEING SAID, WHAT WE'RE FINDING IS WE'RE NOT JUST SEEING A TEACHER SHORTAGE.

BUT WE'RE SEEING A STAFF SHORTAGE, AND THAT'S AFFECTING US IN EVERY ASPECT OF SCHOOL.

>> IS IT ALL OR MOSTLY THE PANDEMIC THAT'S DRIVING THESE NUMBERS?

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE OTHER FACTORS THAT THE PANDEMIC HAS LAID BARE?

>> WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE PANDEMIC HAS LAID BARE IS THAT WE HAVE CREATED SO MANY UNNECESSARY HURDLES WHEN IT COMES TO OUR EDUCATORS AND HELPING OUR EDUCATORS IN THIS PROFESSION.

FOR INSTANCE, WE HAVE A RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD QUICKLY MAKE A DECISION THAT WE'RE GOING TO ELIMINATE THIS RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT SO THAT WE'RE NOT RESTRICTING OURSELVES IN TERMS OF THE TEACHERS AND STAFF THAT WE HAVE AVAILABLE.

WE ALSO HAVE FACTORS LIKE HOW DO I EVEN GET INTO TEACHING WHEN I HAVE TO JUMP THROUGH THE ED TPA HURDLE AND ALL OF THE FINANCIAL AND TIME CONSTRAINTS THAT THAT PUTS ON PEOPLE AS WELL.

AND THEN WE THINK ABOUT JUST ALL OF THOSE LITTLE THINGS THAT I'M SURE WHEN YOU CONTINUE TO SPEAK TO OUR EDUCATORS ON THIS CALL, ALL OF THE LITTLE UNNECESSARY PAPERWORK AND STANDARDIZED TESTING AND ALL OF THESE PRESSURES THAT WE PUT ON EDUCATORS ON TOP OF THE EXPECTATIONS OF THEM DURING A PANDEMIC.

NONE OF THOSE THINGS MAKE IT EASIER FOR TEACHERS TO REMAIN IN THIS PROFESSION FOR LONGER PERIODS OF TIME.

>> YEAH.

AND SO AS A RESULT OF THAT, THE NUMBERS, I MEAN, YOU HAVEN'T TAKEN A FORMAL POLL HERE IN JERSEY, BUT YOUR EXPERIENCE SUGGESTS TO YOU THAT THOSE NUMBERS THAT THE NATIONAL UNION CALCULATED PROBABLY PRETTY CLOSE TO WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE IN JERSEY?

>> YES.

ABSOLUTELY.

AND EVEN FROM, YOU KNOW, IF I COULD BE ANECDOTAL A LITTLE BIT, EVEN FROM MY MEETINGS WITH EDUCATORS WHEN I GO FROM BUILDING TO BUILDING AND SPEAKING TO EDUCATORS, IT DEFINITELY SUPPORTS THE EVIDENCE THAT THE NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION FOUND, WHICH IS THE LIFE SPAN FOR A TEACHING CAREER, PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO FEEL LIKE, WELL, MAYBE -- I THOUGHT I COULD BE HERE UNTIL I'M 65.

MAYBE I NEED TO DECIDE THAT I'M GOING TO LEAVE HERE AT 55.

>> YOU KNOW, THIS IS KIND OF OUT OF LEFT FIELD QUESTION.

BUT YOU MENTIONED AGES, AND HOW LONG FOLKS TEACH.

IS THERE AN AVERAGE CAREER LENGTH FOR TEACHERS?

>> SO, I THINK EVERYONE ON THIS CAN AGREE THAT THERE IS -- >> I HOPE THAT'S NOT A DUMB QUESTION.

>> NO, IT'S NOT.

IT IS NOT.

ONE OF THE THINGS -- BEAUTIFUL THING ABOUT EDUCATION IS YOU KNOW THAT EVERYONE THAT WENT INTO IT WENT INTO IT BECAUSE THEY WERE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT STUDENTS AND ABOUT LEARNING.

SO, WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, IN MONTCLAIR, WE HAVE SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN TEACHING FOR OVER 60 YEARS.

YOU HAVE PEOPLE -- IT RUNS THE GAMUT, SO IT'S REALLY HARD TO SAY, LIKE, A DEFINITIVE NUMBER.

BUT WHAT I WILL TELL YOU IS THAT EDUCATORS LOVE WHAT THEY DO, AND THEY DO IT FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME.

>> YEAH.

HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THIS LEVEL OF STRESS AND DISTRESS BEFORE AMONG TEACHERS AND STAFF?

>> YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO TELL YOU, I HAVE NOT.

AND I THINK ALL OF THE ITEMS THAT I DISCUSSED PRIOR, I THINK, BECOME EXASPERATED BY SOME OF THE FEELINGS OF DISRESPECT THAT'S BEING GARNERED TOWARDS OUR EDUCATORS AND OUR STAFF, AND WE ARE TAKING A PROFESSION THAT IS WORTHY OF THE UTMOST RESPECT AND OFTENTIMES WE SEE IT DEPROFESSIONALIZED AND UNDERCOMPENSATED AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

THOSE ARE ADDED BAGGAGE ON OUR -- THOSE BECOME ADDED BAGGAGE FOR OUR EDUCATORS.

SO, ON TOP OF EVERYTHING THAT THEY DEAL WITH ON A DAILY BASIS, AND I HAVE TO TELL YOU, EDUCATORS ARE NOT JUST TEACHERS AND STAFF, BUT THEY ARE CARETAKERS, CUSTODIANS, THEY'RE THE HUG IN THE MORNING, THEY ARE THE REASON THAT SOME OF OUR CHILDREN EAT.

THEY ARE SO MUCH MORE THAN JUST, YOU KNOW, CLASSROOM TEACHERS, AND TO HAVE THAT PILED ON WITH THE ADDED STRESS OF MAKING SURE THAT YOU WILL HAVE A PENSION WHEN YOU COME OUT OF THIS, MAKING SURE THAT YOU ARE COMPENSATED AND FINANCIALLY STABLE ENOUGH THAT YOU CAN TAKE CARE OF YOUR FAMILY, ALL OF THAT, I THINK, HAS BECOME EXASPERATED, AND ON TOP OF THAT, HAVING TO -- FOR SOME OF OUR EDUCATORS, HAVING TO TURN ON THE NEWS OR SOME SOCIAL MEDIA AND TO SEE DISPARAGING COMMENTS BEING MADE ABOUT A PROFESSION THAT YOU LOVE SO MUCH MAKES IT ALL THE MORE DIFFICULT TO CONTINUE TO BE A PART OF.

>> THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF COMPLAINTS ABOUT WHAT GUIDANCE SCHOOLS SHOULD FOLLOW.

I'VE SEEN A COUPLE DOZEN OF THE GOVERNOR'S BRIEFINGS MYSELF.

I'M STILL NOT CLEAR ON WHAT THE STATE'S GUIDANCE IS.

HAS THE MURPHY ADMINISTRATION BEEN HELPFUL?

>> SO, WHAT I APPRECIATE MOST IS THAT THEY HAVE FOLLOWED THE SCIENCE.

AND THEY HAVE PUT -- THAT SAFETY HAS BEEN A PRIORITY AND THEY'RE FOLLOWING IT.

IT'S VERY EASY FOR DISCUSSIONS AROUND THE PANDEMIC AND DISCUSSIONS AROUND COVID TO BECOME POLITICAL, BUT FOR US, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT WE PUT THE SAFETY, HEALTH, AND WELLBEING OF OUR STUDENTS FIRST.

NO MATTER, YOU KNOW, NO MATTER WHAT THAT MEANS, AND MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE LISTENING TO THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, THAT WE'RE FOLLOWING THE PROTOCOLS AND GUIDANCE THAT WE RECEIVE FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND TAKING ALL THE NECESSARY PRECAUTIONS THAT WE NEED TO.

>> SO, TWO YEARS NOW, IN THIS PANDEMIC.

AND IT APPEARS TO BE EASING SOMEWHAT.

PETAL ROBERTSON, HERE WE ARE LOOKING AT YEAR NUMBER THREE.

DO YOU THINK THINGS ARE GOING TO BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT COME SEPTEMBER?

>> OH, DAVID, I HOPE SO.

I HOPE SO, DAVID.

I THINK THAT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US JUST WANTS A RETURN TO NORMALCY, AND I THINK WE COME WITH THAT RECOGNITION THAT NORMAL MIGHT NOT LOOK LIKE THE NORMAL THAT IT DID IN 2019, BUT SOMETHING MORE NORMAL THAN WHERE WE ARE NOW, AND I THINK THAT IF WE CONTINUE TO FOLLOW THE GUIDANCE OF THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, IF WE CONTINUE TO FOLLOW THE PROPER HEALTH AND SAFETY PROTOCOLS AND WE CONTINUE TO PUT THE SAFETY AND EDUCATION OF OUR STUDENTS FIRST, WE WILL GET BACK TO THAT PLACE, WHICH WILL BE OUR 2022 NORMAL, BUT AT LEAST IT WILL FEEL NORMAL.

>> ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC THAT YOU'RE GOING TO GET ENOUGH TEACHERS, YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO RECRUIT AGAIN?

>> OH, I HAVE TO BE.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE NOT TO BE IN LOVE WITH EDUCATION.

I THINK WE, THE EDUCATORS THAT YOU FIND, THE STAFF THAT YOU FIND IN YOUR BUILDING WERE BORN TO DO WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

AND IT BECOMES -- IT'S A CALLING FOR SO MANY OF US, SO AM I WORRIED THAT ONE DAY WE WON'T HAVE TEACHERS?

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I HAVE WANTED TO TEACH SINCE I WAS 5 YEARS OLD.

AND I AM TELLING A SIMILAR STORY TO SO MANY OF THE EDUCATORS WE SEE IN OUR BUILDINGS ACROSS THE STATE.

WE WILL BE HERE.

WE WILL BE HERE FOR OUR STUDENTS.

WE WILL BE HERE FOR OUR FAMILIES.

WE WILL BE HERE FOR OUR COMMUNITIES AS WE HAVE BEEN FROM THE VERY, VERY BEGINNING.

>> ALL RIGHT.

PETAL ROBERTSON, ENGLISH TEACHER AND SECRETARY TREASURER OF THE NJEA.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

THANKS FOR COMING ON.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE OPPORTUNITY.

NICE TO SEE YOU AS WELL.

>> LET'S BRING IN OUR CLASSROOM WARRIORS NOW.

JOANIE JACKSON TEACHES FOURTH GRADE AT NELLY PARKER ELEMENTARY IN HACKENSACK.

HEATHER MORAN IS PRINCIPAL AT LOGAN TOWNSHIP MIDDLE AND NICHOLAS TEACHES HISTORY AT UNION HIGH SCHOOL.

LET'S START WITH THE PRINCIPAL HERE.

HEATHER, WHAT IS YOUR SITUATION AT LOGAN TOWNSHIP MIDDLE SCHOOL AS IT PERTAINS PARTICULARLY TO, FIRST, ARE YOU VIRTUAL AND IN-PERSON, AND WHAT ARE SOME OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES THAT YOU'RE FACING IN YOUR BUILDING?

>> WELL, THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

I REALLY APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY, DAVID.

WE ARE FULLY IN-PERSON, EVERY DAY.

I HAVE ABOUT 370 STUDENTS THAT I SEE EACH DAY, AND THEY'RE ALL HERE.

THE ONLY TIME THEY'RE VIRTUAL IS IF THEY HAVE TO QUARANTINE.

BUT IN TERMS OF WHAT WE'RE FACING, I DEFINITELY THINK STAFFING IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES.

WE HAVE HAD MANY POSITIONS, AND AS PETAL WAS SAYING, THINGS FROM CLASSROOM TEACHERS TO CUSTODIANS TO FOLKS TO WORK IN THE CAFETERIA TO CLASSROOM -- EXCUSE ME -- CAFETERIA PLAYGROUND DATES, MISSING THOSE POSITIONS REALLY PUTS A STRAIN ON EVERYBODY THAT'S HERE.

AND IT MAKES EVERYBODY'S DAY MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO GET THROUGH.

AND IT DOESN'T PROVIDE EACH INDIVIDUAL STUDENT WITH EVERYTHING THAT THEY NEED THE MOMENT THEY NEED IT.

I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE HARDEST THINGS AS WELL.

>> TONY, ARE YOU GUYS VIRTUAL OR IN-PERSON, AND IT'S FOURTH GRADERS, RIGHT?

HOW'S ATTENDANCE BEEN?

>> YES, WE'RE FULLY IN-PERSON.

I DO TEACH FOURTH GRADE AND ATTENDANCE LATELY HAS NOT BEEN BAD, ASIDE FROM STUDENTS BEING OUT, WHETHER THEY HAVE TO QUARANTINE, IT DEFINITELY IS A LOT MORE SPOTTY, I WOULD SAY, AND IT SEEMS LIKE FAMILIES ARE A LOT MORE OKAY WITH HAVING TO HAVE STUDENTS MISS THE DAY OR TWO.

I WISH THAT THERE WAS SOME MORE CONSISTENCY ALL AROUND.

I DO FEEL LIKE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS TOUGH IS THAT AS A TEACHER, I HAVE TO THINK, WHAT CAN I PUT IN PLACE FOR THE STUDENTS THAT ARE ABSENT?

WHAT CAN I DO TO TRY TO KEEP UP?

SO IN ADDITION TO PREPARING LESSONS, I'M HAVING TO PREPARE TO TEACH LESSONS AGAIN, DUE TO SOME OF THESE ABSENCES.

>> NICK, HIGH SCHOOLERS ARE TOUGH ENOUGH TO HANDLE WHEN YOU'RE NOT FACING A GLOBAL PANDEMIC.

HAVING BEEN A SUBSTITUTE TEACHER FOR A BRIEF TIME IN HIGH SCHOOL, I KNOW.

WHAT'S THE ATMOSPHERE AT UNION HIGH?

YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE THIS COULD REALLY KIND OF TEAR A SCHOOL APART.

HAVE YOU HAD TO BRING THE SCHOOL TOGETHER, OR DOES EVERYBODY KIND OF FEEL LIKE THEY'RE IN THE SAME PLACE?

>> WELL, IT'S AN -- AND AGAIN, JUST TO BACKTRACK AND SHARE WHAT PETAL SAID, I MEAN, THE STATS ARE STILL KIND OF PROCESSING.

55% OF PEOPLE.

THIS IS OUR DREAM JOBS.

WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT SOCIETY WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE LEAVING THEIR DREAM JOB THAT THEY'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO DO BECAUSE IT'S BECOME SO UNBEARABLE AND I FEEL LIKE THE CONCEPT OF TEACHER SHORTAGE IS SUCH A MISNOMER.

TO ME IT'S MORE TEACHER ATTRITION AND TEACHER EXODUS WHERE THE EXPECTATIONS HAVE BEEN SO MUCH WHERE, AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW HEATHER, BUT TONY, I SEE THE WORK HE DOES WITH HIS STUDENTS, WE GIVE OUR ALL TO OUR STUDENTS EVERY SINGLE DAY.

IF IT WASN'T FOR THE STUDENTS, I FEEL LIKE THERE WOULD BE 100% EXODUS RATE FOR EDUCATORS.

BUT JUST SEEING WHAT TEACHERS ARE DOING, LIKE MY SCHOOL IN PARTICULAR, AS EDUCATORS, WE'VE DONE SOMETHING WE'VE NEVER DONE BEFORE.

WE WEREN'T PREPARED TO DO OR RESEARCHED TO DO AND THIS APPLIES TO ADMINISTRATION AS WELL BUT WE SOMEHOW MADE IT WORK AND WE PIVOTED AND ADAPTED ON A DAILY BASIS.

AND TO ME, IT'S SO INSPIRING TO SEE WHAT EDUCATORS HAVE DONE ON ALL LEVELS, ALL SCHOOL STAFF, AND IT'S SO INFURIATING, FRUSTRATING TO SEE PEOPLE ATTACK EDUCATORS WHO HAVE GONE ABOVE AND BEYOND EVERY SINGLE DAY, PRE-PANDEMIC, BUT MORE SO DURING THE PANDEMIC.

SO, MY SCHOOL, I MEAN, WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME SHIP TRYING TO STAY AFLOAT AND I ASSUME THAT'S THE SAME AT EVERY SCHOOL, EVERYBODY'S TRYING TO STEP UP AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM TOO, WE'RE ALL STEPPING UP FOR EACH OTHER AND THEN NOW TEACHERS TAKE ON THE STRESS, AS TONY WAS SAYING, OF THEIR OWN STUDENTS.

SO NOW WE HAVE OUR OWN ANXIETY AND OUR OWN STRESSES SO IT'S JUST AN INTERESTING SPACE TO BE IN.

AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S INSPIRING, IT'S FRUSTRATING, AND IT'S OVERWHELMING ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

>> WHAT ARE THE CONVERSATIONS LIKE WITH KIDS WHEN IT COMES TO NOT SUBJECT MATTER THAT THEY'RE STUDYING IN CLASS BUT ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE WORLD, WHAT THE RESTRICTIONS ARE MEANING TO THEM, WHAT THE PANDEMIC HAS -- HOW IT'S IMPACTED THEIR LIVES AND SO ON?

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS YOU GO THROUGH WITH KIDS ABOUT THAT?

>> IT'S CHANGED MY WHOLE METHODOLOGY AS A TEACHER.

AS MUCH AS I LOVE HISTORY, I'M NOT CONCERNED AS MUCH ABOUT WHAT -- THE SUBJECT MATTER AS TO WHAT THEIR FAMILIES ARE GOING THROUGH AND WHAT THEY'RE GOING THROUGH, BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW THIS AS EDUCATORS, IT'S MASLOW BEFORE BLOOM.

IF A CHILD HASN'T EATEN, IF THEY'RE STRUGGLING, WE'RE IN A PANDEMIC, SO THE CONVERSATIONS, BEING A HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER, IT'S MUCH MORE INTENSE, MUCH MORE EMOTIONAL, MUCH MORE COMPASSIONATE.

OBVIOUSLY, I WANT THEM TO LEARN AND GIVE THEM THE SKILLS TO SUCCEED BUT I ALSO WANT THEM TO BE EMOTIONALLY STABLE AND TO BE STRONG IN THAT ASPECT.

SO, THE CONVERSATIONS HAVE DEFINITELY -- THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN, FOR EVERY EDUCATOR, WE PUT OUR STUDENTS' CONCERNS FIRST, BUT NOW IT'S CONCERN FOR STUDENTS AND THEIR FAMILIES ABOVE THE CONTENT MATTER.

>> LET ME GET THE OTHER TEACHER IN HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE CONVERSATIONS THAT YOU HAVE HAD WITH SOME OF YOUR STUDENTS.

>> SO, THE CONVERSATIONS WITH MY FOURTH GRADERS, SIMILARLY, IT STEERS AWAY.

I MEAN, I STILL GET EXCITED ABOUT THE CONTENT THAT I'M TEACHING, AND I WILL DO MY ALL TO GET MY STUDENTS EXCITED ABOUT THAT ALSO, BUT SO MUCH OF IT NOW, CONSIDERING HOW MUCH OF A DRAIN IT IS FOR TEACHERS IN EVERY ASPECT OF OUR LIVES, AND KNOWING THAT IT'S THE SAME FOR STUDENTS AND THEIR FAMILIES, SO MUCH OF IT IS TO TRY AND KEEP STUDENTS ENGAGED AND EXCITED IN SOME WAY ABOUT STILL COMING TO SCHOOL, ABOUT STILL BEING A PART OF THAT CLASSROOM.

AND SO, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I SEE IT CONSTANTLY.

IT IS A REALITY FOR ME.

I SEE IT WITH MY COLLEAGUES.

WE'RE TRYING TO NOT JUST SURVIVE THE SITUATION, BUT WE'RE TRYING TO LET OUR STUDENTS SEE, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT ABOUT BEING FAKED.

IT'S ABOUT LETTING THEM KNOW THAT ALTHOUGH THIS IS DIFFICULT, IT'S IMPORTANT.

AND IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THEM TO BE HERE, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO BE THERE FOR THEM.

AND WE NEED TO KNOW THAT THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF SCHOOLING.

THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE TO WHAT WE DO IS BEING THERE FOR THEM BEYOND, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S ON A TEST.

>> DOUBLY SO, I WOULD IMAGINE, FOR KIDS WHO ARE KIND OF ON THE EDGE, ON THE PERIPHERY OF ACHIEVEMENT, ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENT, EVEN UNDER THE BEST OF TIMES.

THOSE KIDS WHO NEED SO MUCH MORE HELP.

I GUESS IT'S AN OBVIOUS QUESTION, BUT THE CONDITIONS THAT WE'RE ALL DEALING WITH NOW HAVE MADE IT EVEN HARDER FOR THE KIDS WHO ALREADY HAVE A HARD TIME IN SCHOOL, RIGHT?

>> OH, YES.

100%.

AND IF ANYTHING, WHAT I HOPE IS COMING OUT OF THIS IS A SHIFT IN PRIORITIES.

A SHIFT FROM, YOU KNOW, FROM GRADES TO NOT JUST GROWTH, OR I SHOULD SAY, NOT JUST GROWTH AND GRADES OR ACADEMIC GROWTH, BUT LOOKING AT ALL OF THE THINGS THAT OUR STUDENTS ARE DOING.

OUR STUDENTS ARE SO RESILIENT.

THEY'RE SO CREATIVE.

AND IF WE CAN KIND OF SHIFT OUR VIEW OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, I THINK SOMETIMES WE HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, CHANGE OUR GOALS AND REALIGN HOW WE'RE WORKING TOWARDS THEM SO THAT WE CAN REALLY FOCUS, BECAUSE THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT KEEP STUDENTS HERE.

YOU KNOW, IF I HAVE A STUDENT WHO MAY STRUGGLE WITH A CERTAIN CONCEPT BUT I NOTICE THEY'RE DOING SO WELL IN OTHER AREAS, I NOTICE THEY'RE BEING REALLY SUPPORTIVE OF OTHER CLASSMATES, I NOTICE THEY'RE NOT GIVING UP WHEN THEY COULD HAVE, THOSE THINGS NEED TO BE CELEBRATED AS WELL.

SO IT'S STILL RIGOROUS.

IT'S STILL CHALLENGING.

WE'RE STILL LAYING OUT AS MUCH AS WE CAN GIVE TO THEM, BUT YEAH, I THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE ALL THOSE CONSIDERATIONS GOING AT THE SAME TIME.

>> SO, HEATHER, WHAT'S IT BEEN LIKE TRYING TO MANAGE A SCHOOL BUILDING WITH MASKING, DISTANCING, ARE YOU SEEING MORE DISCIPLINE PROBLEMS, AND IS ATTENDANCE DOWN?

>> I THINK I FEEL LIKE TONY DOES, THAT ATTENDANCE HAS SORT OF LEVELED OFF WITH THE EXCEPTION OF PEOPLE THAT NEED TO QUARANTINE OR THOSE KINDS OF ISSUES, AND I ALSO AGREE THAT KIDS AND PARENTS ARE HAVING THEM STAY HOME IF THEY NEED TO.

BUT FOR THE MOST PART, ATTENDANCE IS BACK TO A MUCH MORE NORMAL LEVEL.

IN TERMS OF MASKING, IT'S DEFINITELY A CHALLENGE.

IT'S HARD FOR TEACHERS TO TEACH ALL DAY IN A MASK.

IT'S HARD FOR KIDS TO BE IN A MASK ALL OF THE TIME.

BUT THAT SAID, THEY'VE ADJUSTED WELL.

KIDS ARE RESILIENT.

THEY HAVE FOUND WAYS TO ACCOMMODATE THOSE NEEDS.

THEY UNDERSTAND THE HEALTH AND SAFETY PART OF THIS MORE THAN, I THINK, MIDDLE SCHOOLERS EVER DID BEFORE, AND I WOULD BELIEVE THAT THAT WOULD BE FOR CHILDREN IN GENERAL.

I THINK FOR TEACHERS, TOO, IT'S HARD TO BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT DEBATE.

YOU HAVE SOME FAMILIES THAT DEFINITELY WANT THEIR KID IN A MASK 100% OF THE TIME, OTHER FAMILIES WHO WANT TO BE A LITTLE MORE LAX ABOUT IT.

AND WE JUST TRY TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE AND THE RULES THAT ARE SET FORTH FOR US FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

>> TONY, WHAT'S THE BIG DIFFERENCE IN YOUR CLASSROOM THIS YEAR AS OPPOSED TO -- THIS YEAR AND LAST YEAR AS OPPOSED TO THE PRE-PANDEMIC DAYS?

ARE THERE THINGS THAT YOU FIND YOURSELF HAVING TO DEAL WITH A LOT MORE NOW THAT YOU DIDN'T TWO YEARS AGO?

>> YES.

I MEAN, I THINK THAT IT'S VERY REAL WHEN WE TALK ABOUT AND WHEN WE LOOK AT STUDENTS ACCLIMATING AGAIN TO BEING IN THE CLASSROOM THAT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN THERE FOR A YEAR OR TWO.

SO, I THINK THAT THAT'S -- THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS BEEN DIFFERENT FOR ME, PERSONALLY.

THERE'S A LOT ABOUT THE PHYSICAL SPACE THAT HAS CHANGED, AND SO YOU KNOW, WE ARE GOING TO FOLLOW ALL THE PROTOCOL, WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE AND WE'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT COMES TO DISTANCING AND MASKING, WE'RE DOING THAT.

I DO REMEMBER THE DAYS WHERE I COULD HAVE MY CLASS SET UP SO THAT STUDENTS COULD HAVE A LOT MORE AUTONOMY, AND SO THAT STUDENTS COULD FORM THEIR OWN PARTNERSHIPS AND USE THE ROOM IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

AND SO, IT CONTINUES TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS CHALLENGING FOR ME TO HAVE MY -- TO HAVE TABLES SET UP IN ROWS, TO HAVE CERTAIN THINGS THAT ARE PART OF THE CLASSROOM FURNITURE, NOT BE ABLE TO BE IN USE.

THAT, TO ME, IS SOMETHING THAT I KNOW COULD BE SOMETHING THAT MAKES THE CLASSROOM MORE COMFORTABLE AND ENJOYABLE FOR MY STUDENTS.

THAT HAS BEEN KIND OF SOMETHING THAT I HAVE -- I STILL STRUGGLE WITH.

>> NICK, TALK TO ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE CONVERSATIONS YOU ARE HAVING WITH THE KIDS IN YOUR CLASSROOM WHEN IT COMES TO HOW THIS IS IMPACTING THEM GOING FORWARD.

DO KIDS -- ARE THEY EVEN THINKING ABOUT THAT?

>> I MEAN, THEY ARE, AND IT'S -- I MEAN, TONY ELABORATES SO MUCH ON THE TROUBLES I'M DEALING WITH AS A HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER, BECAUSE THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT COLLEGE.

THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT CERTAIN ASPECTS OF, OBVIOUSLY, THE ACADEMICS.

I MEAN, IS THERE LEARNING LOSS?

WE'RE GOING THROUGH LESS CONTENT BUT WE'RE FOCUSING ON DIFFERENT SKILLS OR LEARNING TO ADAPT.

I MEAN, THE -- SO, TO ME, IT'S LIKE WE'RE LOSING CERTAIN CONTENT BUT THEY'RE LEARNING SKILLS, BECOMING CREATORS.

WE'RE DOING MORE SOCIAL ACTIVITIES.

WE TALK A LOT ABOUT HOW THIS IS GOING TO TRANSITION AND AFFECT THEIR COLLEGE LIFE AND THEIR PROFESSIONAL LIFE.

BUT ALSO, WE ALSO JOKE THAT, YOU KNOW, I'M LIKE, YOU SHOULD GET THERE IN COLLEGE.

ON YOUR APPLICATION, YOU SHOULD SAY, I WENT TO SCHOOL DURING A PANDEMIC.

THAT ALONE SHOULD WARRANT YOU A JOB IN ANY FIELD AND ACCEPTANCE TO ANY UNIVERSITY.

IF YOU DID WELL DURING A PANDEMIC ACADEMICALLY, THERE IS -- I MEAN, YOU'RE ONE OF THE MOST SELF-MOTIVATED PERSON I'VE EVER MET.

>> THAT'S A GET INTO COLLEGE CARD RIGHT THERE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IT'S SO EASY TO LOSE MOTIVATION.

AND WHAT I FEEL LIKE THESE CONVERSATIONS, AGAIN, THEY'RE ADAPTIVE AND RESILIENT IN WAYS AND I TELL THEM, THEY INSPIRE ME EVERY SINGLE DAY BECAUSE THEY ARE SHOWING UP AND IT'S SO TOUGH TO BE MOTIVATED DURING THIS TIME.

BUT HEATHER, I'M SURE TONY FEELS THE SAME WAY.

SEEING THEM INSPIRES ME AND THAT GIVES ME HOPE, ESPECIALLY IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE OF WHAT SOCIETY'S GOING THROUGH RIGHT NOW.

>> HONEST ANSWERS.

FOR TEACHERS AND FOR YOU TOO, HEATHER, HOW MUCH HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT WALKING AWAY AND HAVE YOU MADE A DECISION ON THAT?

LET'S START WITH YOU, TONY.

>> SURE.

BOTH MY PARENTS WERE TEACHERS.

MY DAD TAUGHT FOR 17 YEARS BEFORE ENTERING ANOTHER CAREER.

MY MOM TAUGHT FOR 40 YEARS BEFORE SHE RETIRED.

AND I'M IN MY 16th YEAR OF TEACHING NOW.

I HAVE TOLD MY MOM THAT I DON'T BELIEVE THAT I'LL GET TO 40 YEARS.

I DON'T THINK THAT I WILL.

AND YES, THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS HAS MADE A DIFFERENCE THERE.

BUT NOT ONLY.

BUT I DON'T SEE MYSELF WALKING AWAY FROM EDUCATION.

CURRENTLY, I DON'T SEE MYSELF WALKING AWAY FROM THE CLASSROOM.

I DON'T SEE MYSELF WALKING AWAY FROM EDUCATION, AND ONE THING THAT I DO NOW, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THE STUDENTS HAVE PICKED UP SO MANY SKILLS, AND TEACHERS AS WELL, ARE GROWING AND LEARNING IN DIFFERENT WAYS, SO I'M CONSTANTLY LOOKING FOR OTHER WAYS THAT I CAN GROW AS A LEARNER AND AN EDUCATOR MYSELF IN DIFFERENT REALMS, SO THERE'S A LOT OF WORK THAT I DO OUTSIDE OF THE CLASSROOM CURRENTLY THAT'S STILL CONNECTED TO EDUCATION.

SO, I'M HERE FOR THE LONG HAUL IN EDUCATION, AND I'LL BE IN THE CLASSROOM FOR A LONG WHILE.

>> HEATHER, YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN A SCHOOL BUILDING UNTIL THEY CARRY YOU OUT?

>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT UNTIL THEY CARRY ME OUT BUT I'M HERE FOR A WHILE.

>> WELL, DAVE, ACTUALLY, I QUIT THIS MORNING.

>> NO.

IT'S DEFINITELY HARDER THAN IT'S EVER BEEN.

I AM LIKE TONY.

I HAVE A FAMILY HISTORY IN EDUCATION.

MY MOM WAS AN ENGLISH TEACHER.

MY FATHER, A COLLEGE PROFESSOR, AND I'M MARRIED TO A SUPERINTENDENT, SO EDUCATION'S IN MY BLOOD.

IT IS THE FIRST TIME THAT IT WAS HARD TO BE PART OF A PARTNERSHIP, A HUSBAND-WIFE PARTNERSHIP, WITH BOTH EDUCATORS, BECAUSE IT NEVER WENT AWAY.

I FEEL LIKE OVER THE ENTIRE PANDEMIC, IT IS ALL WE TALK ABOUT.

AND THINK ABOUT THE WAYS THAT WE CAN MAKE THINGS BETTER FOR OUR STUDENTS, OUR STAFF, OUR COMMUNITIES, AND WE'RE TIRED.

I'M NOT GOING TO WALK AWAY, BUT I'M TIRED.

>> ALL RIGHT.

TONY, WHAT DO YOU DO FOR SELF-CARE?

HAVE YOU HAD TO FOCUS ON THAT SO MUCH MORE NOW?

FINDING TIME, PLACE, CIRCUMSTANCE THAT BRINGS YOU A LITTLE BIT OF PEACE?

>> 100%.

JUST LIKE HEATHER SAID, IN MY FAMILY, MY WIFE IS A TEACHER AS WELL, SO SHE TEACHES ELEMENTARY SCHOOL IN THE SAME DISTRICT SO THE SELF-CARE PIECE IS -- I THINK ABOUT IT TWICE AS MUCH NOW BECAUSE IT'S FOR MY OWN SAFETY AND ALSO FOR MY WIFE'S.

THERE ARE SOME TIMES THAT WE'RE NOT ABLE TO, AS AN INDIVIDUAL, SEE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE -- WE'RE STRUGGLING WITH, AND SO I TRY TO LOOK OUT FOR MY WIFE AS WELL.

RIGHT NOW, I'M IN THIS CAR BECAUSE WE TOOK OUR DAUGHTER, WE'RE ON BREAK RIGHT NOW, AND WE'RE JUST STAYING AT A HOTEL FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS, JUST TO HAVE A LITTLE FUN, BECAUSE WE NEEDED THAT TIME AWAY.

WE NEEDED THAT DOWN TIME AND SO THAT'S JUST ONE EXAMPLE.

BUT I READ A LOT.

I WRITE A LOT.

AND HAVING AS MANY CONVERSATIONS AS I CAN, EVEN THOUGH IT SEEMS KIND OF COUNTERPRODUCTIVE, TALKING WITH TEACHERS ALL THE TIME ABOUT THE THINGS THAT ARE STRESSING US OUT, BUT KNOWING THAT I'M NOT ALONE MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

TONY JACKSON, NICK, HEATHER MORAN, THANKS FOR BEING HERE AND SHARING YOUR PERSPECTIVES.

I'M SURE YOU DON'T HEAR IT ENOUGH, BUT YOUR SERVICE IS MUCH APPRECIATED.

SO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO ALL OF YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> THAT IS "CHAT BOX" FOR THIS WEEK.

THANKS ALSO TO PETAL ROBERTSON.

YOU CAN FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER, @DAVIDCRUZNJ, AND BE SURE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE YOUTUBE CHANNEL FOR MORE INTERESTING STUFF LIKE "CHAT BOX," NJ "BUSINESS BEAT," NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS AND LIVE STREAMS OF OTHER IMPORTANT EVENTS.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, FOLKS.

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

FOR THE ENTIRE CREW OVER HERE, HAVE A GREAT WEEK.

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