Welcome to the Sound of Ideas Reporters Roundtable from Ideastream Public Media.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Leaders in Brook Park and Cleveland reached a tentative resolution to a decades old land dispute near Hopkins Airport that could clear the way to give new life to the mammoth IX center.

Would you vote to quadruple the Cuyahoga County sin tax to pay for pro sports venues?

Well, you won't get a chance any time soon.

The state is in no hurry to approve it.

Akron's mayor has announced a push for new housing as a way to combat homelessness.

And the law already says you need a valid photo ID to vote.

So why are Republicans pushing for a constitutional amendment saying the same thing?

And the Justice Center in Downtown Cleveland is getting a $200 million makeover.

Maybe the elevator rides won't take longer than the commute to the courthouse.

Joining me to discuss these and other top stories of the week, from News5 Cleveland, Michellele Jarboe and from Ideastream senior arts reporter Kabira Bhatia.

Good morning, both of you.

Morning.

Morning.

Good to have both of you with us.

And good evening.

If you're watching this in the evening as well.

In Columbus, a journalist who always skips the elevator and takes the stairs.

Ideastream Statehouse News Bureau Chief Karen Kasler.

Hey, Karen.

Hey.

Glad to be here.

Good to have you here, too.

And you're not out of breath.

You wonder how many sets of stairs flights of stairs are there at the statehouse.

Like 400 flights of stairs to get up to where you are.

It's an old building, so there's lots of stairs here.

Well, good to have you with us and good to have you joining us as well.

And you can share your thoughts by sending email to SOI@Ideastream.org.

Let's get ready to roundtable.

Cleveland and Brook Park settled this long standing disagreement this week that will clear the way for Cleveland to redevelop the IX center.

For decades, the two cities had been involved in a dispute over land involving a never-built runway at Hopkins International Airport.

Michelle, you've been following this story.

In fact, you sat down and talked with the mayors of both of the cities.

Was it surprising this came together now because there's been a lawsuit.

There's been decades.

There's been promises made and promises not kept.

Was it surprising that this came together this week?

So I wasn't necessarily surprised because I knew the cities were talking.

But this is a big breakthrough, and I think it was a surprise to a lot of people.

But you have, you know, relatively new leaders in both communities who had inherited a mess.

And the situation with the IX center in particular, really came to a head over the past year because the city of Cleveland owns that.

It's leased to a couple of industrial real estate developers, and they decided not to continue with events there.

They hosted their last event in the spring.

They'd really like to bring in job creating uses, you know, advanced manufacturing, aerospace and defense tenants under the building and the complications around that building because of this decades old fight were preventing that from happening.

So that really forced the issue.

Let me ask you specifically what that is.

I hear about this tax sharing agreement.

Why would that make it difficult to redevelop the property?

So, short version.

Excuse me.

We could write a novel on this.

But back in 2001, there was a legal settlement between Cleveland and Brook Park related to fights over land around Hopkins.

And at the time, Cleveland was thinking about adding an extra runway at the airport, and they needed some land to do that.

Their plan was to demolish the center eventually so that runway could go through there, and they needed to demolish a bunch of houses just south of the airport area.

That settlement included this tax sharing arrangement for a nearby business park and the IX center, both in Cleveland.

At this point, because there were land swaps that went on.

But the tax sharing agreement at the IX Center gives most of the revenue, particularly income tax revenue, to Brook Park.

So if Cleveland were going to give incentives to a company to move in there, say, a job creation tax incentive where they would give up a portion of the payroll taxes, Cleveland would be upside down on the deal.

There was no way for them to incentivize companies to move in there and be competitive without hemorrhaging money.

So they are going to be paying Brook Park money because of this.

The lack of of tax sharing, I think it's $650,000 a year over a number of years, 33 years, 33 years.

So it's a big mortgage that they're paying on that, but what they get out of it then is because they have full control of the IX Center.

Then you can offer these incentives.

Then you can get the development that perhaps that they're looking for.

And you get the full upside.

So Cleveland has predictability around this.

That $650,000 a year figure was based roughly on what Brook Park has been getting in recent years from the IX Center and the tax sharing at this nearby business park, Emerald Corporate Park, Cleveland now knows Here's a set number we need to pay to Brook Park every year.

We don't have to pay above that.

So if we bring in a big company with a lot of jobs, Cleveland will get the upside of that deal.

Whereas under the other agreement, it was it was a percentage share.

Okay.

There is a bunch of property houses that the city bought.

What's posted about?

Some are demolished.

It's open space.

There's a number of acres.

I think it's over 30 acres of property, 34 acres, 34 acres.

So what happens now to that property that it's in control of Brook Park?

And the question is, since it's adjacent to the Browns development, does it mean we just have a giant parking lot?

It is not adjacent to the Browns.

Near it.

It is near, but it is south of Hopkins.

And that property, the city of Cleveland bought up hundreds of homes there and demolished them again, related to this airport plan that was never realized.

Brook Park wants control of that land back, which they will get.

They will become the owner of the land as part of this deal.

And they are looking at returning that land to residential zoning because there was an airport overlay zoning put on that property years ago with the expectation that it would allow for aviation related uses.

And Brook Park is saying, we want to protect this.

Well, we're looking at, you know, new residential development potentially, or it could be a park.

Years ago in a city master plan, it was, identified as a potential park location, but it also allows Brook Park to take care of that property, which right now the roads through it are all closed off and overgrown.

It doesn't look nice and it's right next to a bunch of houses.

So what I heard in terms of speculation from people that, oh, it's just going to be an overflow parking lot for the Browns development, which is not adjacent but nearby.

That's just cynical at this point.

We don't know any of that.

Or I mean, I don't know I don't know that that is the highest and best use for the city.

That's certainly not what the mayor of Brook Park or council members talked about during their council caucus meeting on Tuesday.

They talked more about cleaning that property up and having it be something that could be an asset to the city.

But of course, everybody's thinking about parking right now because you've got a big sports and entertainment district just a few years down the road.

You mentioned the Brook Park Council and they had a caucus.

They are going to have to vote on this.

So is a Cleveland City Council.

That's right.

And Brook Park Council, at least based on Tuesday night's caucus conversation, seems very much on board with this and enthusiastic.

I think Cleveland City Council will be maybe a little tougher of a nut to crack.

But, my understanding is the administration has been briefing members on this and trying to walk them through what is a very complicated deal.

All right.

Well, Cleveland Council will be addressing this next week as well.

Cuyahoga County and Cleveland's pro sports teams want voters to quadruple the current sin tax to help pay for the ever growing list of repairs at sports venues.

The current sin tax on liquor and cigarettes isn't cutting it, but the state needs to okay it first -- an increase a vote on an increase.

It doesn't look like that's likely to happen any time soon.

Michelle I don't know math, but I know words and quadruple means times four.

This is what they're asking for.

Or one of the things that they could triple or quadruple the sin tax in order to cover all of these mounting costs, that that's the idea.

And and the sort of the backstory on that is that the amounts involved with the sin tax, the dollar amounts haven't increased with inflation.

So though you're paying more for a bottle of beer or a bottle of wine or a pack of cigarettes, the the amount of that purchase that's going toward the sin tax has stayed consistent.

It's like four and a half cents for a pack of cigarettes, one and a half cents on a 12 ounce bottle of beer, $0.06 on a bottle of wine, and about, I think it's three bucks on a gallon of liquor, which I buy by the gallon, of course.

So that's just really not keeping pace with the needs of these facilities.

And county officials are saying, and the pro sports team leaders are saying, hey, this is a this isn't a lot of money, but it would make a big difference for the maintenance of these facilities.

Karen, what does the state need to do before, Cuyahoga County could put this on a ballot?

And what does it look like they might do?

What did you hear from from Matt Hoffman?

Well, speaker Matt Hoffman was asked, after his usual conversation with reporters about the sin tax, and he said he doesn't think that it's likely that anything will go forward, either.

In June, when lawmakers are set to finish up their stuff for the year or in lame duck after the election.

And he said part of that is because he says there are issues that people don't have answers to, that he's concerned about.

He wants to know why people who go to games don't get an extra buck on their tickets.

And apparently he was told that, there is an 8% tax, that the city of Cleveland gets 4% off.

And, he said that he's just got concerns about that money and basically taxing people for cigarettes and beer when he believes that people who are using the facilities should actually pay that tax.

And he says there's diminishing returns at some point because people can just go to another county or just go somewhere else to buy their beer and liquor and cigarettes and everything, rather than pay this in tax.

And Cuyahoga County also, we see that people are drinking less now, so there might be lower alcohol sales.

Also smoking taxes.

There's a separate smoking tax, a sin tax for the arts in Cuyahoga County that has been going down steadily because smoking is decreasing as well.

So one of the benefits of sin taxes is it incentivizes people not to sin.

If that's literally a sin.

And so that's another issue that, that, that might come up, which is, is this the best way to try to get that kind of money?

Are there other ideas?

Karen, I know the governor once had proposed doing sports gambling as a way to to fund new stadiums.

What about a fund for for repairs of stadiums?

Well, that whole issue of a tax on sports gambling operators was something DeWine put forward as a way to fund repairs.

And infrastructure at stadiums across the state that was stripped out by the legislature.

They finally agreed on this plan to go to unclaimed funds.

That's still in court.

And so there's this possibility that there the state could lose and unclaimed funds would not be able to be used for stadium projects.

So the legislature might have to come back and decide what they want to do in terms of the money.

They've already committed to the $600 million for the Cleveland Browns domed stadium in Brook Park, for instance.

Could be or let's imagine that, that world in Cuyahoga County, where it's times four we're talking with, would prices go up significantly for for these basic products?

I mean, $0.16 on a gallon of beer, again, you buy your gear by the gallon.

I was going to say beer always comes in gallons.

By the jug.

Yes.

So it's $0.16 on that.

$3, as Michellele said, on a gallon of liquor.

It's $0.14 on a pack of cigarettes and just for, scale the arts cigaret tax that you mentioned, which is completely separate, which was approved in 2024 to be increased is $0.70.

So, $0.14 on a pack of cigarettes is what it would be with this new structure for the separate sin tax.

That's, what, $0.84.

That are going to it's going to be tacked onto a pack of cigarettes in the future.

If all of this, goes through.

Right.

The current tax is four and a half cents for a pack of cigarettes.

And the current tax is $0.16 for a gallon of beer.

So it would be that would be quadruple that price.

Exactly.

Yes.

Everyone with calculators at home, that's, that's what it's going to end up being.

So you did mention other ideas at one point for the arts tax.

They were considering vaping products that almost got approved and got pulled back, in Columbus, I believe it's a bed tax that funds that.

And up here at one point they said we're going to tax video tape rentals years ago.

Obviously they didn't go with that and I'm glad they did.

They could pass that now, and I don't think anyone would protest.

No, that'll be fine.

All right.

A coalition calling itself Flock No is demanding that Cleveland cut ties with Flock Safety, a surveillance company that provides cameras that read licenses and records vehicle characteristics.

Cleveland's contract with flock is up for renewal, and the mayor has asked City Council for its blessing.

Michelle, originally the mayor, Justin Bibb, planned to renew the contract without City Council's approval.

Now he's gone to City Council and said, I want your blessing on this.

Is that just a political calculation?

Was there a lot of blowback?

Well, Contract extensions can go through a body called the Board of Control, and that's what happened recently with a contract with ShotSpotter, which is a company that provides gunshot detection technology.

And City Council was kind of blindsided by it.

And they're very, very upset about it.

So, in this case, the administration is taking a different approach.

And saying, okay, we're going to go through the council process and hopes that we can get this other contract extended.

So what Flock cameras do is if a car goes by, it knows what that car is because it can read the license plate.

It also can record, you know, what kind of car those types of things law enforcement is saying.

That's a really important and valuable tool.

But when we see these protesters, the Flock, No protesters, their argument is wha?

People are uncomfortable with the idea of being surveilled as they go about their daily tasks.

They're also uncomfortable with the idea that a variety of law enforcement agencies could tap that information.

And concerned about how that information gets used.

I think particularly in this environment where, there are crackdowns on immigrants.

You know, there's a lot of concern about ICE accessing these cameras.

And we've seen cases locally even where communities didn't realize that law enforcement was tapping into these networks for immigration related searches.

Yeah.

That's interesting.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement would have access to these types of things.

What we've heard are these assurances that, nope, we're not going to we're not going to allow this to happen.

And yet you find out by going and public records request that it does happen, that this is a tool that can be used.

And so the argument is who is that information being shared with.

Yeah.

And that that is very disconcerting to the opponents of this.

They're showing up.

Flock is not just a Cleveland thing.

It's it's growing.

In fact, one of the people sort of in charge of making that happen regionally is Kerry McCormack, who used to be, Cleveland City Councilman and now works for Flock and is looking to expand.

It's not just Cleveland, but it's in rural areas as well.

Flocks and suburbs.

I mean, I've done stories.

I did a story, a while back about, food stamp theft ring that got busted in Westlake.

And, police in Westlake used a variety of surveillance tools, including cameras on the roads to help them track these people and ultimately arrest them.

You wonder, too, when people are saying, I don't want to be surveilled and I don't want this information to be available.

But yet we're walking around with a phone in our pocket that in a moment can tell you everywhere you've been in the last, an extended period of time.

It feels like this is intrusive in a lot of ways in our lives, sometimes in ways we don't even realize.

I mean, we could all just move to Desert Island, right?

And live with Khabir.

That's where he lives.

I'm.

I'm down.

We got plenty of space.

In the hut.

Yes.

You mentioned, by the way, that the assurances that Flock said, you know, we don't work with, ICE.

The municipality has to approve use of this.

But also, officers can go in without a warrant and check and say, where was this car?

This car was in front of this store.

Then it was front of the store the next day.

So, that's one way that it's being accessed, even beyond the, permissions that Flock says.

And the restrictions of Flock says are in place, which you can see in one sense is a really valuable tool.

If you had somebody to food theft ring that or somebody that committed a serious offense and you need to track them down quickly, there's a threat.

Okay, we've tracked exactly where it is, and now we're able to find the person because we know where the car went.

Sure.

However, you can also see where if there is nefarious intent, then it can be used in a, in a, in a bad way.

I've coined the phrase for this.

It's called double edged sword.

I thought that was yours.

Very good.

Careful with that.

It's sharp.

Yeah.

All right.

With communities pushing back on data centers proliferating across the state, including a proposed moratorium in Cleveland, the regional chamber of commerce, the Cleveland, the Greater Cleveland Partnership is standing up against any bans.

Khabir, the partnership stance on data centers is what?

It's not saying They're all great, but they're saying, let's not blanket say no to all of them, right?

Whether it's at the local level, state level, they're saying these bans, these moratoriums are bad for business.

I think the phrasing they used was it says if you put up a not open for business side, again, these are the words of the Greater Cleveland Partnership.

So they're saying, you know, cities, municipalities.

Just just wait a second.

Just just have a look.

Don't put these bans and moratoriums.

Although I believe the ones locally that have passed, I think Avon, Painesville.

I forget all the others.

Ravenna, maybe.

They're only six months to a year.

A lot of times they're moratoriums not bans.

right.

It's not an outright ban, but there is movement to have an outright ban statewide.

Yeah.

And that that's become a trend city after city are looking at this.

And I've heard from people this is the story of the year that the idea of data centers, it's got communities perked up.

It's got people looking at it.

There's a lot of reasons, Michelle, water usage, electricity, electricity usage and the lack of permanent jobs that are created by them.

Yeah, I think there's also a lot of, confusion about what these actually are.

And so there are conversations going on in communities right now across the region about it.

Okay.

What what does a particular data center project actually entail?

How would it tap into the power grid?

Is it bringing its own power with it?

How much water would it actually use?

Because there's wide variation in how much water these things use.

There are some that may only really use enough water to flush the toilets.

And for people to wash their hands.

There are others that use vast amounts of water every day.

There's been a lot of evolution and technology, so, so like trying to get an understanding of these.

And I think that's part of what these business groups are saying, you know, agree with them or not.

On the question of should a community put a moratorium, a short term pause in place while they try to study the issue?

These business groups, the Greater Cleveland Partnership and the Cleveland Building and Construction Trades Council are saying, look at these projects on a case by case basis.

Don't paint them all with the same brush, because not every data center is the same and not every deal is the same.

And there are communities that we've said that have said we want a moratorium, some that are pushing for bans.

Then there are communities that are embracing these.

And you went on a trip to New Albany near Columbus, where it's basically data center central.

Yeah.

So there's a 12,000 acre business park there, the New Albany International Business Park.

If you know, most people in this area, if they've heard of it, they probably heard of it because of Intel, because that's where Intel is building its semiconductor chip plants.

And, and, you know, there's a lot of development in that park.

So there are offices, there's manufacturing, there's distribution, logistics.

But they have 40 data centers there so far and 28 More on the drawing board are under construction.

And I started hearing about the data center development down there, in part from some local public officials and small communities, some in rural communities, who were saying, oh, yeah, I've been to New Albany.

Oh, I went down there for a time.

So I took a decibel meter down and stood near the data centers to see how loud they were.

And I thought, well, if these public officials are taking these trips, we should do that too.

And what did they find?

Are they saying that they're benign or that it confirmed, a suspicion that they're not great?

A lot of people I've talked to were surprised by what they saw, because it wasn't necessarily what they were expecting.

And, and, you know, in the case of noise, in most cases, they weren't particularly noisy.

They're also not like right up next to houses.

There are some that are close to houses, but a lot of them are not immediately right next door, you know, to a residential development.

And a lot of these public officials, the other reason they're going to New Albany is to talk about how they can get value out of these projects.

You alluded to the fact that there aren't necessarily a lot of long term jobs inside these buildings.

So there are a ton of construction jobs while they're being built and maintained.

There are ways that New Albany has structured deals with the different types of payments and taxes they collect on these buildings, where they are getting a significant amount of revenue, even if it's not all from income taxes.

So that's one thing communities are trying to figure out is if we're going to do one of these deals, how do we make it a good deal?

How do we get money for our priorities out of this?

You know, whether it is the general fund or a new fire station or new ambulances or investments in a park?

You mentioned 12,000 acres.

That's basically Westlake and maybe some of Rocky River, too.

It is very big.

Yeah.

In our in our story about this, we put Westlake on top of that business park because it's so hard to explain to people how big this.

And there was room to spare.

I mean, it's so big.

Like we got down there and we put a drone up 450ft in the air and we're like, okay, we can get this tiny corner of this, it go higher.

I really needed a helicopter.

Yeah.

Karen, let's talk about it on the state level, because we've mentioned this a few times a statewide push to ban data centers, especially from rural areas where most of them are built.

It's a long way from the ballot.

We've talked about numbers, and, you've got the exact number, but I know it's over 400,000.

Tell me the number again that you need to get on a ballot.

413,487.

She knows it in her sleep.

Yep.

They only had something like 25,000.

This is not this is not a serious threat at this point.

Well, that was the number that was given to me, I think, two weeks ago.

And I was told that there it's probably bigger than that because numbers are constantly coming in.

But this is a volunteer group and they're working on a very short timeline.

They have to get those signatures from half of Ohio's counties by July 1st.

So it really looks doubtful that this ban on large data centers would make the fall ballot.

But this group could continue to gather signatures and try for next year.

And that's really the only push right now to put any ban statewide on data centers.

There are several bills in the legislature that would try to put some restrictions and guardrails on them.

Those haven't moved a whole lot because now there is this joint data center committee of House and Senate members who are going to be looking at data centers in general, saying that they want to get accurate, relevant and useful information.

And I talked to the two co-chairs of that committee for our TV show, The State of Ohio, for next week and asked them, how do you determine what is accurate?

Because there is a lot of information out there, and the data center industry has really been trying to push back on some of the things that you just talked about there.

The water usage, the high electric bills, all that stuff.

And they said they're going to bring in subject matter experts and they want their data on data centers.

So this will be an interesting committee to watch, potentially because we could actually maybe get some answers on what happens with some of this data.

And, you know, where the studies are coming from and that sort of thing.

But there are different kinds of data centers.

There's large, they're small.

So, you know, there's a lot of frustration, though.

It's remarkable how public opinion on data centers has really changed in the last couple of years.

Yeah, it's become, like I said, the story.

And certainly I know you'll be following that committee, too.

Right now, though, we're going to take a quick break.

There are more stories to discuss on The Sound of Ideas Reporters Roundtable, including a push to codify voter ID requirements in the Ohio Constitution.

First, I'm handing it over to Stephanie Haney for a look at what's ahead next week on The Sound of Ideas.

Stephanie.

Hi, Mike.

Looking ahead after this long weekend, here's what we have coming up on The Sound of Ideas next week with Monday being a holiday Memorial Day, the Sound of Ideas team is off.

So in place of our program, we're bringing you something from Minnesota Public Radio.

It's the Call to Mind series, and we're looking at the unique mental health challenges of immigrant communities.

On Tuesday, we'll share with you a conversation that happened recently at the City Club of Cleveland.

This is about Cleveland's rock and roll legacy and the future of live music.

It's a conversation between Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's Greg Harris and also Sean Waterson from Happy Dog, moderated by Annie Zaleski, who is a friend of the show here on The Sound of Ideas.

On Wednesday, we continue our loneliness series.

We got some feedback in our audience that you would love to hear about social groups for older people who are beyond their working years.

So we're looking at seniors, social groups, and the community that's needed and the benefits for that for people who are beyond their working years.

On Thursday, we'll round things out with The Menu.

It's our partnership with Cleveland Magazine where we look at the Northeast Ohio food scene, and this time we're checking out the Flats, looking at the changing face of restaurants and entertainment in that area.

As always, this is subject to change with breaking news back to you in the studio.

Thank you Stephanie.

Appreciate that.

And, Annie Zaleski is a friend of the show.

It's I think you can be a friend too if you just listen to the show.

I think we're friends of the show, aren't we?

Are we friends of the show?

I agree.

Oh, everyone's a friend of the Sound of Ideas.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

I'm Ideastream executive editor, and I'm here along with senior arts reporter Kabir Bhatia and News5's Michelle Jarboe.

Ideastream Statehouse News Bureau chief Karen Kasler joins us from Columbus.

And a reminder, if you keep up on the news and enjoy testing your knowledge, you should try out our Ideastream news quiz.

It publishes on Fridays.

You can find it on our homepage at Ideastream.org I haven't taken the quiz yet.

Today was a little busy this morning, but looking forward to it afterward.

And I think I'm going to ace it because I'm paying attention to the show exactly.

Republican lawmakers want to put voter identification requirements in the state constitution.

Voters in Ohio are already required to show a valid photo ID when casting ballots under a 2023 state law.

But some lobbying lawmakers fear that that could change with an amendment, without an amendment.

So what they're saying basically, if a new administration doesn't agree with that kind of thing.

A new legislature, they could say you don't need a photo ID.

So let's put it in the Constitution.

Karen, is this push, something that will result, do you think, in, in, in a constitutional amendment soon?

Well, it sure seems like it, because state lawmakers have a different path to the ballot than citizen groups do.

I mean, lawmakers just need a 3/5 vote in each chamber on a resolution to put an amendment before voters.

They don't need the governor's signature on this.

And so they're planning to go ahead with this.

This this is gone, gone really fast.

I mean, we first saw the reference to a constitutional amendment on voter ID in Ohio on Monday when Republican candidate for governor, Vivek Ramaswamy, issued an op ed saying Ohio needs to do this.

So by Thursday, there was already a resolution introduced and hearings had begun.

And that kind of shows really the partnership that Republican legislative leaders and Vivek Ramaswamy have here.

And this is an interesting thing to me, I think, because this reminds me of in 2022, which was the last time Ohioans voted on a candidate in a governor's race and a U.S.

Senate race.

And in that year, there was also something that was a ballot issue that was codifying something in state law, and that was a prohibition on non-citizens voting.

And that passed overwhelmingly.

And also Republicans won a lot of offices that year.

But Republicans have won a lot of offices statewide in Ohio for a long time.

So this just kind of reminds me of the same situation where you have something that's already in state law, but lawmakers say they want to bring it to voters to make it more permanent.

So could one reason for that be that you would draw to the polls people who are like minded, who want to vote on that particular issue, and now you've got more people to cast a ballot for your candidate?

Well, certainly you could expect that.

And, the legislative leaders were asked about that.

And Rob McColley, who is the Senate president, as well as Vivek Ramaswamy running mate, said this is not intended to be a turnout juicer for the fall.

And he said, in fact, this is a very popular idea among Republicans and Democrats.

So he expects that this would really not drive up turnout.

But, I mean, it's it certainly looks like it's the kind of thing that that could bring turnout.

And I think one of the thing that's interesting here is lawmakers kept talking about how we need to put this in the Constitution so that future legislatures can't change the requirement, can't repeal the voter ID requirement for voters.

But they also mentioned that this amendment does allow for future legislatures to change the kind of photo ID that can be shown.

So it's really interesting that there's that comparison of we can't allow future legislatures to repeal this, but we can allow future legislatures to change it in some way.

If we have photo ID requirement now and it becomes part of the Constitution, what's the pushback on this?

What is what do the opponents of this say would be the detriment?

Well, I think there are people who have been concerned all along about the requirements of voter photo ID in terms of, you know, your address has to match if you're using a driver's license and if you move a lot, you're a renter, then that's going to be a problem.

The issue of trying to get ID, especially if you don't drive anymore or you've never did, you're older, you have a or you're not in a state where you were born.

So getting access to your birth certificate, those kinds of things, these are the, the, the identification arguments that have been raised with a lot of this.

But again, this is an issue that's proved to be very popular in polls.

All right.

Let's talk about another voting issue.

Ohio has hardened its voter laws and policies over the last eight years.

One change advocated for by Secretary of State Frank Larose impacted him in the primary.

So what happened?

Yeah, my Statehouse News Bureau colleague Jo Ingles reported on this earlier in the week.

And it's an interesting story.

We're talking about two laws here, 1 in 2023 that change the window in which your ballot has to be returned to the Board of Elections.

If you're voting by mail, shortened that to four days for all voters.

And then this year there was another law that was passed that eliminated that grace period for all voters except for overseas and military voters.

They're protected by federal law.

And so Secretary of State Frank LaRosa was deployed this year.

He was in Europe.

He voted by absentee ballot and had his ballot sent back to Ohio.

He was tracking it, which you can do and you should do if you're voting by mail.

And he noticed that it hadn't arrived by Election Day or the day that he was planning on going to vote.

And, he was back in the States by then.

And so he did get a chance to go and vote provisionally.

But critics of this have said, hey, he got an advantage that other people did not get, because if you're overseas, you can't just pop in and vote provisionally on Election Day.

And so they said that this kind of really shows that changing these laws can be problematic for people.

And even if they were stateside, not everybody has the kind of deep knowledge that the Secretary of State has in terms of, oh, I can go cast a provisional ballot.

You would hope people might know that, but they might not.

And that's been an argument that voting rights advocates have said all along is as Ohio continues to change voting laws, it makes it more difficult for people to keep up with them.

And so you have people who think they know the law, but they know the law as it was not the law that it is right now.

And so the education around this, I mean, we're certainly trying to do that, but it can be hard for people to keep up with.

What do I need to remember to do this time when I need to go vote?

Okay.

Akron Mayor Shamas Malik said his administration will roll out legislation soon to improve housing, a main plank in his state of the city speech on Tuesday at the Akron Civic.

Khabir, This has been an ongoing issue for the city.

How will forthcoming legislation and there's a bunch of different aspects.

What will it what is it hoping to do?

I think in the end it's really to target homelessness.

But what specifically would happen under his proposals?

Well, it would.

Targeting homelessness in some cases means more homes, better homes, more accessible homes.

So to that end, they have the registration system for landlords.

They're going to be strengthening that, making them more accountable.

In his words, there's mold that needs cleaned up.

in a lot of the public housing, they're really going to attack that.

And they're going to have some stricter guidelines for the mold cleanup for when that does happen.

There's also this provision where you have to have a minimum lot size when you're creating housing, and they're going to try and roll that back a little or relax that so that somebody who wants to build a house or build housing units, doesn't have extra hurdles to go through, when they want to do that.

They also had some federal funding 4 million dollars that to create, if not more than 500 units of new housing.

Essentially, the argument is if you have more affordable housing, you'll have fewer people without a house.

That's that's the argument, homeless homelessness, people who work with people who are homeless say there's of course, other factors, and there's some folks who are just not going to to respond to homes, whether they're accessible or even free.

But, this is a good start.

532 units is probably, I think, what they're going to get with that $4 million, a couple of other things from the state of the city speech safety forces, spending and balancing the budget are top priorities, the mayor said.

So last year, they approved raises for the safety forces.

This year, he said, they're going to try and balance it by, I think, within two years.

And one of the ways to possibly do that is they're going to be, making overtime.

I guess they're going to have less overtime, really, for, safety forces.

So that's one way that they're going to to attack that.

There's also the street team for gun violence prevention that's going to get beefed up in the city of Akron.

And they're also going to be making changes to the use of force policy as well for the police department.

So he's really, looking at all facets of the, safety forces, police and fire.

Okay.

Soon, June 6th, Akronites should be looking to the skies.

Why?

Yes, that's blimp day.

Blimp day.

And introduced a new, holiday blimp day celebrating the Goodyear blimp.

And it's almost the anniversary.

It's June 3rd.

Really is the anniversary of the first flight of a Goodyear blimp.

So he wants to make this an annual holiday this year.

It's going to be June 6th.

And people can look up and see blimps flying over all 24 neighborhoods.

More than one blimp?

Yes.

Multiple blimps.

I remember there was an event last year at Canal Park, and there were three blimps that flew by, and I don't think anyone it was state of the.

I think it was a state of the city, and I don't think anyone paid attention to the mayor for a while because they were all just gawking.

Yeah.

Oh, I remember that.

Yeah.

They somehow scheduled it for the exact same time.

Yeah.

That's true.

Yes.

It was, sorry, mayor, but, a little more exciting to see the blimps.

Very good.

Cleveland City Council is considering stiffening penalties for threatening behavior toward health care workers.

Michelle, tell us more about this.

What are we talking about in terms of threatening behavior?

And what would the legislation do?

So so threatening behavior there.

They're talking about, menacing, which is, you know, either physically threatening, you know, some sort of physical interaction that gives a person cause to feel fearful or intimidated or verbal harassment and intimidation and.

Right now, menacing is a fourth degree misdemeanor in Cleveland.

This legislation would make it a first degree misdemeanor with a penalty of up to six months in jail or up to $1,000 in fines.

And if you are menacing a health care worker while they are on duty at work, this would require at least a three day jail sentence.

It was introduced last year has been held in safety committee.

Starting to have some movement.

I know there were hospital executives that were at council, some discussion on this that there was at one point council was saying, listen, this isn't going to help.

Doing this legislation isn't going to change anything.

It's more about the culture and what you're providing at the hospital system to keep your people safe.

That that seem like that attitude has changed a little bit to seem like council is is in line with with approving this at this point.

Yes.

That seems to be the trajectory that they're on.

And it looks likely that they'll pass this at the beginning of June.

But there were some robust conversations around what the hospital systems are doing right now to provide support as well as to provide paid time for employees to go file police reports.

If there is an incident that happens.

There were also some members of council, in particular, Stephanie House Jones, who were concerned about what leads patients or other people who are at hospitals to end up in altercations.

And they were worried about the potential for patients to be criminalized.

So there was some conversation as part of this discussion about requirements for tracking annual incidents and charges, to get a better idea of what's going on and who's being charged.

Ahead of Memorial Day weekend, Cleveland officials are launching a summer safety initiative to combine increased police enforcement, multi-jurisdictional partnerships and expanded youth programing.

Mayor Bibb is called for what he called an all of government approach toward safety this summer and summer is when safety's at the height kids are not in school.

The worry about trouble happening in neighborhoods.

And that's usually when crime increases, too.

So what does the mayor mean by all of government?

So so officials talk this week about both a multi department approach from within City Hall.

So, so every department playing a role with programing or support and then a multi-agency approach.

So involving agencies outside of City Hall in a violent crime task force that would be focused on repeat offenders doing traffic sweeps and, you know, identified hotspots and cracking down on illegal guns.

And so local, state, federal and county law enforcement are involved in that.

Why is the city emphasizing crowd control and curfew enforcement the summer career?

Well, we just had an example over the weekend.

There was a Cleveland Asian Fest got closed down early from basically overcrowding is is what the chatter seems to be.

There was also that shooting outside of a Browns game last year, injured six people.

So incidents like that, when there's large gatherings, they're concerned about, we might be seeing another large gathering.

If the Cavs do as well as we think, do we have to mention this?

So I was I was vowing not to talk about the Cavs anyhow.

I didn't mean the basketball team okay.

No I would say something else entirely.

Forget I brought it up.

But those are the reasons that they're concerned about safety.

And to Michelle's point, Multiagency, they do have, 2200 jobs that they're going to be offering at $13.50 an hour, 160 internships, $14 an hour of just just putting that out there.

And there's going to be a three on three basketball team, basketball program ages 10 to 21, which I want to see the ten year olds take on the 21 year olds.

You.

Yeah, but but so the idea there is to keep young people engaged.

Yeah, exactly.

When the kids get bored, that's when the trouble starts.

And I'm a perfect example.

You laugh about a ten year old playing a 21 year old, but try being like a 30 year old, playing a 41 year old.

There's a big difference.

There's a huge difference.

Time Changes things.

don't remind us.

All right.

And what about, police staffing and neighborhood safety efforts, that kind of thing?

Michelle, we talked a little bit about, the concerns, but what about staffing?

Sure.

So the city says that at this point, they're, around 85% of full staffing in the police department.

They've hired more than 300 officers over the past few years.

And, they are planning to have officers kind of walking neighborhood streets, addressing quality of life issues, things like code enforcement and street lighting and trying to connect with people to create a little bit more awareness.

So all of that, the all of government approach that is, that is going to be happening all right.

Years after the pandemic, the Ohio Supreme Court will decide whether Governor Mike DeWine was right to call an early end to federal pandemic unemployment assistance.

The program provided $300 a week to those on unemployment.

The government ended it ten weeks early in 2021, sparking a lawsuit.

And, Karen, I know you've said this is the thing you hear the most about from people.

What are the arguments for and against this case?

Where are we at with it?

Yeah, I've gotten more calls and emails about this story than any other story I've done in my career in journalism.

Wow, really.

Yes.

And I just got to this week.

I mean, it's amazing the 300,000 people who are part of this lawsuit who say that they are affected, that they are owed money, they're really concerned about this.

And so they want to know what's going to happen here.

And this has been going on for quite a while.

Like you mentioned, the program was ended in Ohio in June 2021.

A lot of Republican led states did that.

And then the program ended on the federal level in September of 2021.

And so the argument has been that the governor by himself, did not have the authority to end the program three months early, which he did at the request of business leaders who said that those $300 a week checks were keeping people from coming back to work.

And so the the question before the court was basically, is this case moot?

Essentially because the program is over, are the funds even there, or does the governor have the authority?

Does the legislature have to do this?

And so it's been an interesting set of arguments here, with regard to the end of this program several years ago and how long this litigation has gone on.

There was funding for the program.

Does what does the governor say in terms of why he decided to end it ten weeks early?

Obviously, it's upsetting all those people that should have collected $300 per month, but what was the reasoning for it?

Well, again, several Republican led states did the same thing.

And DeWine said it's because the business community leaders were telling him that people were not coming back to work.

You can remember right after the pandemic, there was there were a lot of places that were putting up signs saying low staffing, be patient, that kind of thing.

And, you know, there were certainly reasons that people were not returning to work and certainly reasons that there were these short staffing situations that, you know, you could talk about wages and all this kind of stuff.

But that was the big reason why he said he ended the program early.

Now, the question is whether that money is still there.

The claimants and their lawyers, it which include, Democratic former Attorney General Marc Dann, say that the money is there.

They have a letter from 2021 saying that $900 million, which is what would cover this group, is available through the U.S.

Department of Labor that the state just has to ask for that money.

And one of the questions I thought that was interesting, that was brought up, is when the when the defendants made their way, the plaintiffs made that argument when they said the state needs to go and do this, Chief Justice Sharon Kennedy said, so you want us to order the executive branch to go do this?

And that kind of gives you a sense of where maybe the arguments, kind of went here and where the arguments might go once the justices are behind closed doors.

I don't know, though.

Yeah.

I don't know if that federal money is still there.

I heard it was being used to build an arch in DC.

No it's not.

I mean, the the, the state says that is based on a letter from 2021.

And so they really doubt that that money is still there and not been appropriated for something else.

All right.

Let's talk about, some or let's share some feedback from our listeners.

I haven't had a chance to get to some of that.

So on a few of our topics, Marvin talked about new housing restrictions, and it's a point that you brought up Khabir.

He said he once considered buying an empty lot to have a house built on it, but ran into a municipal requirement that the house have a minimum square footage that is quite large.

Restrictions like that are ridiculous.

Clearly meant to limit the neighborhood to wealthy people, and let's prohibit that kind of provision.

That's something the mayor in Akron absolutely talked about, for sure.

Wesley says, I oppose the type of surveillance state that Flock can represent.

But if the cameras are going to be used, why not use them to identify drivers who speed run red lights and run stop signs using the Flock cameras to enforce these laws would save lives.

The goal the politicians are claiming.

I got another thought here from, Steven.

He says, we should think of any personal data access accessible in public the same way we think of a person's likeness.

Although we have no expectation of privacy when we go out in public and anyone can take a picture of us, that doesn't mean our image can be used in any way without our consent.

So he talks about that in related in relation to the Flock cameras.

And finally, Michael, who is our resident, a comedian Khabir, he who doesn't actually work here.

He's got your sense of humor.

I don't work here either.

You know, the IX Center used to make tanks, and he says ever since World War II ended, finding a new use for that property has been a ankless job.

Oh, I'm sorry, people.

Listen, that's me.

It's Michael Quinn.

Don't.

Don't blame me.

We expanded the show to an hour for that.

Yeah, exactly.

Let's move on.

thank you, Khabir.

Two new lawsuits are challenging the merits of a voter approved constitutional amendment that guarantees reproductive rights, including abortion access passed in 2023.

Karen, these lawsuits in two different courts, both claiming the amendment itself is unconstitutional.

So let's talk about the challenge from Faith to Action in Butler County.

Now, Faith to Action is led by Janet Folger Porter, who people might remember as the former head of Ohio Right to Life.

She actually was one of the people who brought the original six week abortion ban that was called the heartbeat bill to Ohio lawmakers in 2011.

It finally passed in 2019, and then it was overturned by it was basically ruled unconstitutional by this constitutional amendment that voters approved with 57% of the vote in 2023.

And so this group says that the basically, the people who put this amendment out there went too far.

That all the laws that are related to abortion could not be overturned by a single vote.

And so that's that group's argument.

And then there's also this other argument, which I hope you're going to ask me about.

I think you are about, a case from Butler County where a Butler County judge says that the amendment is prohibiting him from his authority to rule on abortions and deny or approve them for minors.

And so you've got these two lawsuits that are going after this constitutional amendment itself, even as legislation about abortion is moving through the legislature.

The legal process because of this constitutional amendment, it didn't just wipe out all abortion related legislation.

It actually started this whole process of each time one of these laws comes forward, there is some sort of an appeal that will likely be decided by the Ohio Supreme Court eventually.

So if you've already covered the material, it counts as me asking about it.

We're good?

Sure.

Okay.

So, just saving your time, you know, there's no fair.

I just want to make sure we got it all covered.

So where do we where we stand with that?

Is there still are challenges to something that the voters, had approved?

Absolutely.

And it's not a real surprise here, because certainly the anti-abortion community has really pushed against this.

They did when it was on the ballot in 2023.

And you've got legislative leaders who have even suggested that there might be another ballot issue on abortion coming sometime in the future.

So this is kind of, I think, to be expected.

All right.

Cleveland's small independent music venues and comedy clubs, but not strip joints received a boost from City Council this week.

struggling It's a sector that to rebound from the Covid era.

Council members were divided over which types of establishments should receive the help.

Michelle, first of all, how is this helping the venues?

What's Council doing that will help the venues?

Sure.

So so this is tax break.

It will eliminate the city's admissions tax for small, independent, you know, locally run music venues with a capacity of under 750 people.

Prior to this, only very small venues with a capacity of under 150 people were exempt from that admissions tax.

So that'll cost the city some money.

But it's worth it, they say, to keep these venues vibrant and going.

There was disagreement though.

Khabir, about what kind of venues should get the break.

And it came down to strip clubs.

I, I'm gonna do this without making any jokes.

Okay?

I promise, many of the council people said, you know, we don't go to strip clubs, but aren't those performance venues?

Those should be included.

However, Jasmine Santana pointed out that in many cases, these are used for human trafficking strip clubs in some way.

So she said she's she doesn't feel that those should be included and they won't be okay in the venue in this whole plan.

But the other small, business venues will be the performance like Happy Dog, Beachland Ballroom.

Exactly.

Yeah.

They've been pushing for this.

Great.

The Cuyahoga County Courthouse will get a $200 million upgrade.

Anyone who has waited for an elevator knows that the courthouse needs those upgrades.

Repairs will start now.

Continue through 2036.

And this is really it's related to the jail construction as well.

In Garfield Heights, Michelle, that the judges have been pushing for.

Listen, don't forget about this place.

You can't just abandon us for a new, justice facility out in Garfield Heights.

And now they're they're getting their due.

Yeah.

So it $200 million for improvements to the building using a mix of borrowing and money from the general fund.

And this is going to happen over a number of years.

So we're talking about through 2036, you know, there had been discussions about relocating the courts, replacing the Justice Center entirely with, redevelopment of another building downtown or new construction or even, new development on that site.

But this appears to be the solution, at least for now.

And the judges had threatened to sue over it.

This was getting pretty serious.

It's been pretty contentious.

Yeah, and with a lot of disagreement about what should go into a facility if a new facility were built and then complaints about the conditions at the existing facilities.

This all went into mediation.

And there was a tentative agreement reached, you know, a couple weeks ago for repairs.

And then it got caught up in the brouhaha over, you know, was this horse trading related to getting the judges to sign off on a deal to build the new jail in Garfield Heights and funding for that?

But it seems like everybody has figured things out now.

All right, today is Bruce Springsteen Fan Day at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Great day for it.

As the Boss plays tonight at Rocket Mortgage Arena or Rocket Arena, I think it's just now, I'll be there with the world's biggest Bruce fan, my wife Elizabeth.

Also on display at the museum is an exhibit dedicated to Paul McCartney's band, Wings.

And he won't be performing.

Guys been busy Saturday Night Live, last week.

And the final Late Night with Stephen Colbert show last night.

What can folks experience at the museum today?

You've been doing some stories about what we can see there.

Yeah, well, they're going to have special, exhibits, related to the Boss.

You're going to be able to see video of his various appearances when he got inducted.

When the E Street Band got inducted, he himself inducted Creedence and several other groups.

So, you'll be able to see all of that.

There's going to be a garage band in the garage, which I think we saw a shot of, which is that space where you can go in and perform, and they're going to be playing Bruce Springsteen songs, and you can check out the Wings exhibit as well.

And the Springsteen thing is just for a day, and I think obviously tied to the fact that there's a concert he's going to be here tonight, the Wings exhibit.

It's interesting because I don't know if Wings gets it to due, you know, it's like, what do you do once you've been a Beatle?

Exactly.

And I heard, in one of your interviews and discussions with with folks there that Wings was significant.

It was this isn't just, you know, a side gig.

I mean, if you want to be a nerd about the charts, technically, Wings had six or Paul McCartney Wings six number ones.

Paul has never technically had a number one under his own name alone.

So Wings technically what I would do him, but I think a lot of people just consider them Paul's backing band, and maybe they'll go to the exhibit and change your mind.

Did you see him on Saturday Night Live this week?

I, I taped it, yeah.

Okay.

Like literally it wasn't great.

I have to say I it's probably a bad take but listen he played coming up which is what he did the first time in 1980.

It was full circle.

That's all I'm saying.

Good stuff.

First appearance.

All right, well, we'll see you if you're down, for, Bruce tonight.

I'll see you at that.

And probably at the Rock Hall.

It's a great weekend for it.

It's the holiday weekend, so enjoy it.

My thanks to you Khabir Bhatia of Ideastream.

And thank you as well, Michelle, Michelle Jarboe from News5.

Appreciate you guys being here.

We're having a thanks.

And thank you as well Karen Kasler.

Take care and have a great holiday weekend.

Go, Guardians.

Go, Cavs.

Yeah.

Go Guardians and go Cavs.

Yeah let's rebound tomorrow night.

Home home cooking.

It'll be great.

To get the last word on today's topics.

Send an email to SOI@Idea stream.org.

You can find us on Instagram at Sound of Ideas.

Monday on the Sound of Ideas off for the The team Memorial Day holiday.

As Stephanie said, and in our time slots will bring you a special from the Call to Mind initiative focused on the mental health challenges faced by immigrants in the United States.

If you missed any part of today's show l air a rebroadcast tonight We at nine on 89.7 WKSU.

And you can watch the television version of this show tonight at 5 p.m.

on WVIZ, PBS.

You can also catch us on YouTube or the podcast platform of your choice.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Have a great holiday and stay safe.

And as we do every week, we leave you with a song inspired by this week's stories.

Springsteen plays Cleveland tonight, the unofficial start of summer is Monday, so enjoy that long holiday weekend with this cover of the Summertime Blues from the Agora in Cleveland in 1978, one of the most essential live recordings of Springsteen and the E Street Band, Well I'm a gonna raise a fuss, I'm gonna Raise a holler.

About working all summer just to try an' earn a dollar Everytime I call my baby, I try to get a date 'No dice son, 'cause ya gotta work late!'

Sometimes I wonder, what I'm a gonna do there ain't no cure for the summertime blues.

(Singing)