>> Gene: 2023 WAS A GRIM YEAR IN THE LEGISLATURE FOR  PROGRESS ON CLIMATE CHANGE.

LAWMAKERS PASSED VERY FEW  BILLS.

AND THOSE THAT DID GET THROUGH  FELL UNDER THE VETO PEN OF DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR MICHELLE  LUJAN GRISHAM.

THIS WEEK OUR LAND SENIOR  PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS GOT TOGETHER WITH LEADERS OF THREE  NONPROFITS FOR A CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT WENT WRONG AND WHY.

WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT WHY CLIMATE CHANGE NEVER SEEMS TO  RISE TO THE TOP OF THE POLITICAL AGENDA EVEN IN THE  STATE WHERE THE PUBLIC CLEARLY WANTS POLITICIANS TO MOVE ON  CLIMATE CHANGE.

>> Laura: WE ARE HERE TODAY TO  TALK ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND POLITICS.

WE HAVE JULIE BERNAL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE  PUEBLO ACTION ALLIANCE.

CAMILLA FIEBELMAN, DIRECTOR OF  THE RIO GRANDE CHAPTER OF SIERRA CLUB AND ERIC  SCHLENKER-GOODRICH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE WESTERN  ENVIRONMENTAL OFFICE.

WELCOME.

SO, IT SEEMS LIKE THERE WAS MOMENTUM ON CLIMATE CHANGE  AHEAD OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION THIS YEAR, BUT IT  ENDED UP BEING ANOTHER REALLY DISAPPOINTING YEAR FOR CLIMATE  ACTION IN THE NEW MEXICO LEGISLATURE.

IN A NUT SHELL, CAMILLA, WELL, IT IS SIMILAR TO WHAT HAS GONG  ONE THE LAST FEW YEARS.

WHAT WENT WRONG THIS YEAR?

>> Feibelman: IT IS SIMILAR TO WHAT HAS GONE WRONG THE LAST  THREE YEARS IN A ROW THAT WE HAVE TRIED TO BRING  COMPREHENSIVE CLIMATE LEGISLATION.

WE WERE PRESENTED WITH A DRASTICALLY WEAKENED BILL BY  THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SESSION,  ASKED TO SUPPORT IT, AND OFFERED SOME STRONGER WAYS  FORWARD BUT WERE TOLD THAT THERE WOULDN'T BE A BILL IF WE  WEREN'T GOING TO SUPPORT THE ONE THAT WAS THERE.

SO, WE TOOK A DIFFERENT PATH OF TRYING TO PUSH FORWARD FIVE  DIFFERENT CLIMATE TAX CREDITS THAT WERE, TO THE CREDIT OF  HOUSE AND SENATE LEADERSHIP, INCLUDED IN THE COMPREHENSIVE  TAX PACKAGE AND THEN WERE PART OF A BIG LINE ITEM VETO IN  THAT BILL BY THE GOVERNOR.

AND THAT AMOUNTS TO ZERO  ACTION ON CLIMATE IN THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION EVEN  THOUGH THERE WAS GOOD NEWS IN MANY OTHER REALMS IN THE  ENVIRONMENT, JUST NOT ON THE CLIMATE.

>> Laura: INTERESTED IN WHAT ARE SOME OF THOSE BEHIND THE  SCENES CONVERSATION THAT HAPPEN LEADING UP TO THE  SESSION.

WHO WAS TALKING?

WHO IS MAKING THESE THINGS HAPPEN OR NOT HAPPEN?

>> Schlenker: I THINK ONE WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT IS OVER THE  COURSE OF THE GOVERNOR'S LEADERSHIP OVERALL IN HER  FIRST TERM AND NOW INTO HER SECOND TERM.

I THINK IN THE FIRST TERM SHE DID EXERCISE LEADERSHIP IN  TERMS OF PROMULGATING, PIONEERING METHANE RULES BOTH  THROUGH THE OIL CONSERVATION DIVISION AND NEW MEXICO  ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT.

SHE ALSO PASSED THE ENERGY  TRANSITION ACT WHICH IS HELPING IN THE SAN JUAN BASIN  BOTH TO RETIRE COAL FIRED POWER BUT THEN TO ALSO PUT  MONEY ON THE GROUND FOR COMMUNITIES TO TRANSITION AWAY  FROM DEPENDENCY ON FOSSIL FUELS.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE ARE THINKING ABOUT AT WESTERN  ENVIRONMENTAL LAW CENTER IS, WHAT IS THE GOVERNOR'S AGENDA  ON CLIMATE IN HER SECOND TERM?

AND DOES SHE EVEN HAVE ONE?

THERE IS A SENSE THAT SHE CHECKED A BOX ON THE METHANE  RULES, SHE CHECKED THE BOX ON THE ENERGY TRANSITION ACT AND,  IN FACT, DOESN'T HAVE AN AGENDA ON CLIMATE ACTION FOR  HER SECOND TERM.

WHEN I THINK ABOUT WHAT THE  REASON IS FOR THAT, I THINK IT IS THE ENTRENCHED POWER OF THE  OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY AND AN UNWILLINGNESS OF THE STATE  POLITICAL LEADERSHIP, STARTING WITH THE GOVERNOR, TO TRULY  CHALLENGE THAT POWER AND TO POSITION NEW MEXICO FOR THE  FUTURE, TO REALLY OPEN NEW DOORS FOR A THRIVING,  RESILIENT FUTURE THAT ISN'T CONTINGENT ON THE VOLATILITY  OF OIL AND GAS REVENUE, WHICH ULTIMATELY IS GOING TO GO  AWAY.

>> Laura: LET'S TALK ABOUT  THAT A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT WE ARE AN ENERGY  PRODUCING STATE AND WE ARE SEEING IMPACTS OF CLIMATE  CHANGE.

HOW DO WE DECOUPLE OIL AND GAS  FROM OUR ECONOMY?

HOW DO WE RECTIFY THESE TWO  PARTS?

>> Bernal:   THANK YOU ERIK FOR WHAT YOU HAD TO SAY.

I THINK -- I FEEL LIKE IN A SENSE THEY ARE LIKE -- I FEEL  LIKE SHE DOES HAVE AN AGENDA WHERE IT IS BASED ON  SUPPORTING FOSSIL FUELS STILL AND USING -- UTILIZING WHAT  ARE CALLED MARKET-BASED MECHANISMS TO ALLOW THE  CONTINUATION OF FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRIES SO APPEASING TO  THAT CONSTITUENCY IN NEW MEXICO, BECAUSE, OF COURSE, WE  ALL KNOW THAT NEW MEXICO IS VERY SEVERELY ADDICTED TO  FOSSIL FUEL REVENUES, BUT I FEEL LIKE A LOT OF WHAT GRASS  ROOTS, INDIGENOUS YOUTH ORGANIZATIONS ARE REALLY  LOOKING TO IS HOW DO WE DIVERSIFY OUR ECONOMY.

HOW CAN WE ALSO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY?

IS THAT THROUGH A COMMUNITY SOLAR GRID PROJECT.

IS THAT BY CREATING ECONOMIES AROUND REMEDIATION AND CARE.

I THINK THAT THERE IS A LOT OF THINKING BEHIND WHAT A TRULY  EQUITABLE, JUST TRANSITION COULD LOOK LIKE, BUT IT IS NOT  GOING TO BE A SOLUTION THAT IS GOING TO APPEASE THE OIL AND  GAS INDUSTRY OR EXTRACTIVES IN GENERAL.

SO, THAT IS, I THINK, THE DUALITY OF THIS ISSUE IS THAT  WE ALL RECOGNIZE THAT NEW MEXICO IS IN SEVERE NEED OF  JUST TRANSITION BUT WE CAN'T DO THAT WHILE ALSO BOLSTERING  THE FOSSIL FUEL ECONOMY.

>> Schlenker: IF I MAY, WHAT  JULIA IS SAYING REMINDS ME THAT, IN FACT, MAYBE THERE IS  AN AGENDA AND PART OF THAT AGENDA IS FOSSIL GAS HYDROGEN.

IT IS INTERESTING THAT ON FRIDAY, AFTER THE SESSION, SHE  VETOED THE FIVE TAX CREDITS AND THEN ON THE MONDAY, THE  NEXT BUSINESS DAY, SHE THEN SUBMITTED THROUGH HER AGENCIES  A 1.25 BILLION DOLLAR HYDROGEN HUB PROPOSAL THAT VERY MUCH  WAS GROUNDED IN FOSSIL GAS HYDROGEN.

THE WAY WE THINK ABOUT HYDROGEN, AND I SUSPECT JULIA  ECHOS THIS, IS THAT THAT IS A WAY TO PERPETUATE OUR  DEPENDENCY ON OIL AND GAS, NOT A WAY FOR US TO TRANSITION  AWAY FROM THAT DEPENDENCY AND NOT A WAY TO TRULY ADDRESS  CLIMATE ACTION IN SUPPORT OF FRONT LINE COMMUNITIES.

>> Laura: I FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY AFTER A YEAR  LIKE 2022 THAT WAS HARD ON MANY NEW MEXICANS IN CLIMATE  RELATED WAYS.

PEOPLE ARE SAD, PEOPLE ARE  OVERWHELMED.

THEY WANT TO DO SOMETHING AND  I HEAR FROM PEOPLE A LOT WHO ARE WORRIED ABOUT CLIMATE  CHANGE.

AND I OFTEN SAY TO THEM, TALK  TO YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS, MAKE SURE YOUR ELECTED  OFFICIALS KNOW THAT YOU CARE ABOUT CLIMATE, ENERGY, WATER.

AND YET HERE WE ARE IN A STATE WHERE WE ARE NOT LIKE TEXAS OR  FLORIDA.

OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS  UNDERSTAND CLIMATE CHANGE, UNDERSTAND WHY IT IS HAPPENING  AND YET IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE DEMOCRATS WILL NOT DELIVER ON  CLIMATE ACTION.

WHAT ARE THE ROADBLOCKS?

WHAT ARE THE BARRIERS TO THIS?

JULIA, DO YOU HAVE A SENSE?

>> Bernal: THIS IS SPEAKING FROM, LIKE, A YOUNG PERSON  THAT HASN'T BEEN IN THIS WORK AS LONG AS CAMILLA OR ERIK.

IN THEORY DEMOCRACY AND DEMOCRATIC PROCESS IS LIKE,  YOU KNOW, PARTICIPATION AND, LIKE, HAVING THE ABILITY TO  TALK TO YOUR POLITICAL LEADERS AND, LIKE, SEE THE DEBATE OUT  IN THE LEGISLATURE.

BUT, WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS  THAT A LOT OF THESE DEBATES AND TOPICS ARE REALLY  DEPENDENT ON RELATIONSHIPS THAT PEOPLE HAVE, WHETHER THAT  IS WITH THE GOVERNOR, WITH ORGANIZATIONS AND THEIR  POLITICAL LEADERS OR LEGISLATURES.

AND THAT, I FEEL, IS ALSO A DETERRENT FOR LIKE FORWARDING,  LIKE, REAL CLIMATE ACTION AND REAL PROGRESS BECAUSE THERE IS  A LOT OF POLITICAL CAPITAL THAT I THINK A LOT OF FOLKS  ARE REALLY TRYING TO PROTECT.

I UNDERSTAND THAT LIKE HAVING  RELATIONSHIPS WITH PEOPLE IS A MECHANISM TO SEE YOUR AGENDA  GO THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE, BUT, LIKE, LET'S HAVE THE  DEBATE.

LET'S, LIKE, SEE HOW DEMOCRACY  IS SUPPOSED TO WORK WITHOUT GETTING IN THE WAY OF  PERSONALITIES OR RELATIONSHIPS.

>> Feibelman: I'LL JUST ADD A LITTLE BIT.

AFTER THE GOVERNOR VETOED THOSE FIVE TAX CREDITS, YOU  SAW AN OUTPOURING OF GRASS ROOTS COMMUNITY CONCERN ON TO  THE OPINION PAGES, FULL PAGES OF LETTERS TO THE EDITOR  ASKING WHY IN A YEAR LIKE LAST YEAR WHERE WE SAW MASSIVE  FIRES, AT ONE POINT IN EVERY COUNTY IN THE STATE,  GENERATIONAL HOMES BURNED, FLOODING AS AN AFTER  CONSEQUENCE.

IF WE DO NOT DO SOMETHING NOW  WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AGRICULTURAL COLLAPSE.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SKYROCKETING FOOD PRICES.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LEAVING OUR KIDS AN UNINHABITABLE  LANDSCAPE.

AND I THINK THAT THERE WAS A  CALCULATION THIS YEAR IN THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE THAT SHE  COULD CUT THE BUDGET BY CUTTING PROGRESS ON CLIMATE  THROUGH THE TAX PACKAGE.

AND I THINK THE CLEAR ANSWER  FROM OUR GRASSROOTS ALL AROUND THE STATE IS THAT THAT WILL  NOT WORK.

WHEN IT COMES TO THOSE  RELATIONSHIPS, WHAT WE ARE DOING IS ASKING OUR MEMBERS TO  REACH OUT IN A VERY PERSONAL WAY TO THEIR LEGISLATORS.

YOU KNOW, WE MADE SOME GOOD PROGRESS IN THE LEGISLATURE ON  BANNING THE TRANSPORT OF HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE HERE,  FINALLY GETTING A PERMANENT FUND FOR CONSERVATION EFFORTS,  AND I THINK LEGISLATORS MORE THAN EVER ARE HEARING FROM  THEIR CONSTITUENTS SAYING, YOU HAVE GOT TO DO SOMETHING HARD.

YOU KNOW, WE DID VOTING RIGHTS.

WE DID GENDER AFFIRMING AND ABORTION CARE, BUT WHEN YOU'RE  STANDING UP AGAINST THE WELL MONEYED OILED AND GAS  INDUSTRY, IT IS GOING TO BE THAT MUCH HARDER BUT THERE IS  NOT A SINGLE DOLLAR THAT COMES INTO THIS STATE THAT CAN  JUSTIFY A KID'S ASTHMA ATTACK, THE HEALTHCARE THAT PEOPLE  HAVE TO GET BECAUSE OF THE IMPACTS NOT JUST OF CLIMATE  AND ON HEALTH.

AND WE WILL WORK HARDER THAN  EVER AS WE ALWAYS HAVE, A BIT OF CASSANDRA, YOU KNOW,  CALLING ON PEOPLE TO ADDRESS THIS CRISIS.

BUT WE WILL KEEP DOING THAT AND WE WILL DO IT UNTIL WE DO  SOMETHING DIFFERENT, BUT IT IS GOING TO REQUIRE A  TRANSFORMATIONAL APPROACH.

WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE  OIL AND GAS.

WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SAY  GOOD-BYE AND I THINK IT IS WORTH RECOGNIZING THAT NO  MATTER HOW WELL OR POORLY OIL AND GAS ARE DOING, IT DOESN'T  SEEM TO CHANGE HOW WELL NEW MEXICANS ARE DOING.

THOSE JOBS ARE DANGEROUS.

PEOPLE GET BURNED AND SCARRED  FROM DOING THOSE JOBS AND SO DOES OUR PLANET SO WE HAVE GOT  TO JUST KEEP COMING BACK, AS DISAPPOINTING AS IT MIGHT BE,  AS SCARY AS IT MIGHT BE OUR KIDS DESERVE WE DO NOT QUIT.

>> Laura: I AGREE WITH YOU AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE  POTENTIAL FOR SORT OF PLANETARY DESTRUCTION DOESN'T  RISE TO THE TOP OF PEOPLES' POLITICAL AGENDAS, BUT IT JUST  FEELS TO ME LIKE SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE BECAUSE I  STARTED COVERING THE ENVIRONMENT IN THE RICHARDSON  ADMINISTRATION AND WE WENT THROUGH EIGHT YEARS OF A  REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR WHERE BILLS WEREN'T GOING TO GET  INTRODUCED BECAUSE SHE WASN'T GOING TO SIGN THEM.

I FEEL LIKE WHAT REALLY NEEDS TO CHANGE IN HOW WE ARE  APPROACHING THIS?

>> Schlenker: I FEEL THERE IS  A POLICY ANSWER AND NON-POLICY ANSWER.

THE NON-POLICY ANSWER IS WHAT JULIA WAS TALKING ABOUT IN  TERMS OF RELATIONSHIPS.

ONE THING WE ARE ALL THINKING  ABOUT IS HOW DO WE BUILD SOLIDARITY AND POWER IN THE  PROGRESSIVE SECTOR SO THAT IT IS NOT VIEWED AS A STOVEPIPE  ISSUE BUT AS AN ISSUE THAT IS REALLY ABOUT THE FUTURE OF NEW  MEXICO OVERALL.

THIS IS A MOMENT FOR US TO  ACT.

WHAT GOVERNOR LUJAN GRISHAM  DOES NOW, WHAT THE LEGISLATURE DOES NOW IN THE COMING YEAR OR  TWO WILL DICTATE WHAT NEW MEXICO'S FUTURE IS 10 YEARS  FROM NOW, 20 YEARS FROM NOW.

THAT IS GOING TO BE CONTINGENT  ON GROUPS LIKE OURS ORGANIZING TO COUNTER THE POWER OF THE  OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY.

THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY  PROVIDES A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY TO POLITICIANS.

IT ALSO PROVIDES A HUGE AMOUNT OF REVENUE TO THE STATE, TO  THE STATE COFFERS, AND IT IS ALSO THE RELATIONSHIP THAT  MOST POLITICAL LEADERS ARE USED TO AND COMFORTABLE WITH  LISTENING TO THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY, NOT LISTENING TO THE  PEOPLE.

I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT  REALLY NEEDS TO CHANGE.

FROM A MORE POLICY  TECHNOCRATIC PERSPECTIVE, IT IS REALLY TRANSITIONING AWAY  FROM OUR DEPENDENCY ON FOSSIL FUELS REVENUE WHILE  CONCURRENTLY PROVIDING SUPPORT FOR COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE  STATE, ESPECIALLY IN THOSE OIL AND GAS PRODUCING REGIONS, TO  BE ABLE TO RETRAIN THEIR WORKERS AND MOVE FORWARD.

I THINK THINKING BACK ABOUT THIS SESSION, THAT IS ONE OF  THE MOST FRUSTRATING THINGS BECAUSE THERE WERE BILLS TO  START BUILDING OUT A GEOTHERMAL INDUSTRY IN NEW  MEXICO THAT WOULD BE VERY CONSISTENT AND SUPPORTED BY  THE CONSERVATION COMMUNITY AND THE CLIMATE COMMUNITY TO HELP  MAKE THAT TRANSITION, BUILD NEW INDUSTRIES.

AND WE SAW THOSE BILLS AND THOSE TAX CREDITS ALSO VETOED.

SO I THINK RIGHT NOW WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS THE GOVERNOR  ESSENTIALLY NOT LEADING, INCLUDING AT THE LEGISLATURE,  AND PASSING UP WHAT IS OTHERWISE AN AMAZING  OPPORTUNITY TO SET THE STAGE FOR NEW MEXICO'S FUTURE.

THAT IS JUST NOT HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

>> YOU TALKED ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS AND KIND OF, YOU  KNOW, THE WAY I WAS THINKING ABOUT IT IS SORT OF BACK ROOM  DEALS BETWEEN LOBBYISTS AND LAWMAKERS.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE OTHER KINDS OF RELATIONSHIPS THAT WE  NEED TO BE BUILDING TO BE ADDRESSING CLIMATE CHANGE  MITIGATION AND ADAPTATION.

WHAT ARE THOSE TYPES OF  RELATIONSHIPS.

>> Bernal: YEAH, SO, WE ARE A  PUBLIC ACTION ALLIANCE.

WE ARE AN INDIGENOUS PUEBLO  ORGANIZATION AND SO A LOT OF OUR CAMPAIGN DEVELOPMENT AND  PROGRAMS WITHIN OUR ORGANIZATION ARE REALLY ROOTED  IN OUR VALUES AS PUEBLO INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.

A LOT OF THOSE VALUES ARE ALSO THESE RELATIONSHIPS THAT WE  HAVE WITH THE NATURAL WORLD AND WITH OUR COMMUNITIES AND,  YOU KNOW, IN THIS BIGGER GLOBAL CONVERSATION AROUND  CLIMATE MITIGATION AND ADAPTATION, IT HAS BEEN STATED  NUMEROUS TIMES THAT INDIGENOUS TRADITIONAL KNOWLEDGE OR  TRADITIONAL ECOLOGICAL KNOWLEDGE IS GOING TO BE A  MECHANISM TO GETTING TO THOSE CLIMATE GOALS.

AND A LOT OF WHAT INDIGENOUS GROUPS ACROSS THE WORLD ARE  TRYING TO DO IS CENTER THAT ANALYSIS BECAUSE ULTIMATELY IF  YOU'RE DOING THAT, YOU'RE THEN STARTING TO LOOK AT, YOU KNOW,  YOU'RE STARTING TO LOOK AT THE WORLD DIFFERENTLY, NOT AS A  RESOURCE BUT AS AN ENTITY, AS A LIVING ENTITY.

THAT RELATIONSHIP THAT WE HAVE WITH THE NATURAL WORLD IS  REALLY A PART OF OUR ANALYSIS AS CLIMATE ACTIVISTS OR  CLIMATE ADVOCATES, WHATEVER WE CALL OURSELVES.

AND I FEEL LIKE THAT CONCEPT ISN'T ALWAYS AS INTUITIVE TO  NONINDIGENOUS PEOPLE AND MAY EVEN SEEM A BIT, LIKE,  NEBULOUS OR NOT GROUNDED IN ANYTHING THAT CAN BE ACTION  ORIENTED.

BUT ULTIMATELY IT IS.

YOU KNOW.

I THINK THAT HAS BEEN A BIG CHALLENGE IN PARTICIPATING IN  THE LEGISLATURE BECAUSE ULTIMATELY A LOT OF THE TIMES  WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WATER, LAND, RESOURCES, WE ARE  TALKING ABOUT THEM AS MATERIALS RATHER THAN LIKE  BEINGS AND OUR RELATIVES.

YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY, IT IS  JUST A CHALLENGE THAT WE ARE CONSTANTLY HAVING TO FACE,  BUT, AGAIN, I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT IT IS GOING TO BE VERY  VITAL FOR THE FUTURE TO CENTER THOSE TYPES OF CONCEPTS AND  IDEOLOGIES.

>> Laura: YOU ALL ARE WITH  DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS AND HAVE DIFFERENT STRATEGIES AND  CAMPAIGNS, BUT I WOULD LIKE FOR EACH OF YOU JUST TO VERY  BRIEFLY, WHAT IS THE ONE MISTAKE YOU THINK NEW MEXICO  CANNOT MAKE RIGHT NOW?

>> Feibelman: DOING WHAT WE  ARE DOING RIGHT NOW.

WE REALLY NEED A CLEAR,  COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

60% OF THE GREENHOUSE GAS  EMISSIONS THAT WE ARE EMITTING AS A STATE COME FROM OIL AND  GAS AND INDUSTRY.

WE NEED TO KNOW THAT OPERATING OIL FACILITIES ARE COMPLYING  WITH THE STRONGEST RULES AND WE NEED TO KNOW THEY ARE  WORKING.

AND WE NEED TO DO MORE IF THEY  ARE NOT.

WE ULTIMATELY NEED TO KEEP IT  IN THE GROUND OR WE WILL NOT CREATE THE FUTURE WE NEED.

BUT WE ALSO HAVE HUGE -- >> Laura:   DON'T FORGET ONE.

ONE THING WE CAN'T AFFORD TO  NOT DO RIGHT NOW.

>> Schlenker: WE HAVE A WEALTH  OF RESOURCES AT THE TABLE IN NEW MEXICO IN TERMS OF STATE  REVENUE.

WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT  STATE REVENUE IS DIRECTED TO  GOOD THINGS NOT THE BAD THINGS.

IN OTHER WORDS, DON'T DIRECT THAT TOWARDS FOSSIL GAS,  HYDROGEN, DIRECT THAT TOWARDS COMMUNITY.

DIRECT THAT TO THE BUILD OUT OF CLEAN ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE  LIKE GEOTHERMAL, LIKE SUN, LIKE WIND, AND MAKE USE OF  THAT OPPORTUNITY.

I THINK WHAT IS KEY HERE IS  CREATE A SENSE OF BELONGING AMONG THE PEOPLE OF NEW  MEXICO.

THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY  SHOULD NOT DICTATE OUR ENERGY FUTURE.

THE PEOPLE SHOULD DICTATE OUR ENERGY FUTURE.

>> Laura: ONE THING -- >> Bernal: ERIK KIND OF -- I  AM TRYING TO TRANSITION.

WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY, I'LL  JUST ADD QUICKLY THAT NEW MEXICO IS REALLY UNIQUE IN ITS  DIVERSITY OF TRADITIONAL LAND-BASED PEOPLE, WHETHER  THAT IS INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, ACEQUIA COMMUNITIES AND THOSE  TYPE OF COMMUNITY MODELS AROUND LAND AND WATER  STEWARDSHIP ARE REALLY GOING TO BE IMPORTANT FOR CLIMATE  ADAPTATION.

IT WOULD BE A HUGE MISTAKE IF  THOSE IDEAS AND MODELS WERE IGNORED BY THE STATE.

>> Laura: ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR  BEING HERE TODAY.

I APPRECIATE IT.