>>JON: FOR A MATERIAL THAT STARTED OUT AS ROTTING VEGETATION AT THE BOTTOM OF PRIMORDIAL SWAMPS, COAL HAS MADE QUITE A NAME FOR ITSELF.

BY FUELING THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION, COAL ALTERED THE COURSE OF HUMAN HISTORY.

ALTHOUGH ITS USE HAS DECLINED IN RECENT DECADES, COAL CONTINUES TO SUPPLY ABOUT ONE-FOURTH OF THE NATION'S ELECTRICITY AND MORE THAN HALF OF THE POWER CONSUMED BY HOOSIERS.

COAL ALSO GENERATES A LOT OF SPARKS - AND A GOOD DEAL OF HEAT - AT THE INDIANA STATEHOUSE, AS POLICYMAKERS CLASH OVER THE PACE OF THE STATE'S ALL-BUT-INEVITABLE TRANSITION TO NATURAL GAS AND RENEWABLE ENERGY.

HI, I'M JON SCHWANTES, AND ON THIS EDITION OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS, WE'LL FIRE UP THE DEBATE OVER THE STATE'S ENERGY FUTURE.

DON'T GO AWAY, INDIANA LAWMAKERS - FROM THE STATEHOUSE TO YOUR HOUSE.

>>JON: JOINING ME FOR WHAT PROMISES TO BE A HIGH-ENERGY DISCUSSION - PUN VERY MUCH INTENDED - ARE: REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE ED SOLIDAY OF VALPARAISO, CHAIR OF THE HOUSE UTILITIES, ENERGY AND TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMITTEE AND CO-CHAIR OF THE STATE'S 21ST CENTURY ENERGY POLICY DEVELOPMENT TASK FORCE, DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVE MATT PIERCE OF BLOOMINGTON, THE RANKING MINORITY MEMBER OF THE HOUSE UTILITIES, ENERGY AND TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMITTEE AND A MEMBER OF THE AFOREMENTIONED ENERGY POLICY TASK FORCE, FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE MATT BELL, NOW A STATEHOUSE LOBBYIST WHO SERVES AS CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER OF RELIABLE ENERGY, A TRADE ASSOCIATION CREATED LATE LAST YEAR TO PROMOTE INDIANA'S COAL INDUSTRY, AND JESSE KHARBANDA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE HOOSIER ENVIRONMENTAL COUNCIL, WHICH BILLS ITSELF AS INDIANA'S LARGEST ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY ORGANIZATION.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE FOR A TIMELY DISCUSSION SINCE WE HAVE A MILLION PEOPLE IN TAXES WHO HAVE NO POWER BECAUSE OF THE COLLAPSE OF THE POWER GRID IN THAT STATE.

VERY MUCH TOP OF MIND.

OBVIOUSLY WE ARE GOING TO TALK A LOT ABOUT WHAT YOU ALL WANT TO SEE HAPPEN THIS SESSION, BUT LET ME START BY ASKING YOU TO SPECULATE, BRIEFLY, ABOUT WHAT THE ENERGY ENVIRONMENTAL SCENE WOULD LOOK LIKE, THE LANDSCAPE WOULD LOOK LIKE IN INDIANA IN LET'S SAY TEN YEARS IN THE -- IF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY DID NOTHING FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS.

WHAT WOULD INDIANA LOOK LIKE?

>>: I DON'T THINK ANYONE THAT TELS YOU THEY KNOW IS NOT FOLLOWING WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THIS RAPIDLY CHANGING WORLD.

THERE IS HIGH DEMAND FOR RENEWABLES.

WE CAN DEBATE GLOBAL WARMING AND PROBABLY WILL NOT CHANGE ANYBODY'S MIND.

THE FACT THAT PEOPLE WANT RENEWABLES IS HERE.

SO HOW MUCH THEY WOULD WANT IT, VIEWING WHAT IS HAPPENING IN TAXES, THEY PROBABLY ARE NOT GOING TO BE ENTHUSED ABOUT OVERBUILDING AND RENEWABLE.

I AND SOME OTHERS FEEL THAT WE NEED TO HAVE A REASONABLE BALANCE OF FUEL SOURCES AND ENOUGH GENERATION CAPACITY TO MEET PEAK DEMAND.

WE USE TO THINK PEAK DEMAND WAS ONLY IN THE SUMMER.

WE JUST LEARNED PEAK DEMAND ALSO OCCURS IN THE WINTER.

EVERYTHING THAT COULD GENERATE ELECTRICITY IN THE STATE WAS RUNNING IN THE LAST FEW DAYS.

WE WERE SELLING A LOT TO OTHERS AND THAT'S A GOOD POSITION TO BE AND SO I THINK IF YOU DID NOTHING, YOU COULD SEE EMOTIONAL SWINGS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER THAT PROBABLY WOULD NOT BE HEALTHY.

THOSE STATES THAT HAVE GONE HEAVILY RENEWABLE TO FAST AND THOUGHT THEY COULD BUY FROM OTHER STATES THAT WOUND UP IN TROUBLE.

THIS SUMMER, AGAIN THIS WINTER.

THE UTILITY INDUSTRY OVER THE YEARS HAS TENDED TO SWING FROM SIDE TO SIDE.

AND RON IS A GOOD EXAMPLE.

SO -- REMEMBER OUR UTILITIES IN THIS STATE ARE MONOPOLIES.

AND WE CREATED COMPETITION FOR THEM THROUGH GOVERNMENT.

SO LEGISLATURE NEEDS TO TAKE AN ACTIVE ROLE BECAUSE IF THE INDIANA UTILITY REGULATORY COMMISSION WERE HERE THEY WOULD SAY LEGISLATURE SETS THE POLICY AND WE CARRIED OUT.

WE DON'T DO POLICY.

>>: LOTS TO FOLLOW UP AND WE WILL.

I DON'T WANT TO SHUT OUT ANYONE ELSE IN THE DISCUSSION.

>>: I THINK NO MATTER WHAT THE LEGISLATURE DOES THE MARKET FORCES ARE POINTING TOWARD RENEWABLES AS BIGGER MANUFACTURERS USE ENERGY, THEY WANT RENEWABLE ENERGY SO I THINK THE MARKET IS SIGNALING WE WANT TO GO THAT DIRECTION.

THE PROBLEM AS IF THE LEGISLATURE DOES NOT PUT IN PLACE GOOD PROACTIVE POLICIES WE WOULD HAVE A LESS EFFICIENT LESS SMOOTH TRANSITION TO THE RENEWABLES AND FROM MY OPINION I THINK WE SHOULD BE DOING ALL WE CAN TO ACCELERATE THIS TRANSITION INTO A CARBON FREE ENERGY ECONOMY.

IT'S A BIG CHALLENGE, BUT WE CAN DO SOME THINGS WHO ASSISTED IF WE PUT POLICIES IN PLACE.

>>: IT WAS ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK THE FIRST TWO WINDFARMS ARE FULLY OPERATIONAL AND THAT'S THE UTILITY IN NORTHERN INDIANA THAT HAS SPELLED OUT PLANS TO DO AWAY WITH ALL FOSSIL FUEL BURNING PLANTS I BELIEVE BY 2028.

>>: THAT'S INTERESTING WE'VE GOTTEN TO THIS TIPPING POINT BECAUSE 10-15 YEARS WHEN I WAS PROMOTING LEGISLATION TO PROMOTE RENEWABLES THAT WERE GETTING OFF THE GROUND THE UTILITIES WERE LIKE THIS IS HORRIBLE DON'T DO THIS TO US.

AND NOW THEY ARE THE ONE SAINT DON'T GET IN THE WAY OF OUR MOVING INTO RENEWABLES.

IT IS A NEW WORLD WE ARE IN.

>>: MORE TO CHEW ON.

MET VAL, WHAT YOUR CRYSTAL BALL?

>>: IN TEN YEARS HOOSIERS WILL BE PAYING MORE FOR THE POWER THEY USE WITHOUT RENEWABLES.

DURING THIS TRANSITION WE'VE SEEN THE PRICE STRATEGY GO FROM SIX LOWEST NATIONALLY TO BE IN THE MID- 20s OR THE HIGH 20s, DEPENDING ON THE STUDY YOU READ.

THEY LEGISLATURE, TO THEIR CREDIT REPRESENTS DESCRIBED AND ARE ACTING TO ENSURE THE TRANSITION IS SMOOTH.

PART OF THAT IS AFFORDABILITY AS WELL.

THE UTILITIES ARE RUSHING TO RETIRE FOSSIL FUEL PLANTS.

CONTINUE TO ASSESS THEIR CUSTOMERS FOR THE PRICE OF THOSE PLANS AND BUILD NEW PLANTS.

WITHOUT ACTION FROM THE LEGISLATURE THE RATEPAYER IS GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF COSTS HUNG ON THEM OVER THE NEXT TEN YEARS WHILE WE MOVE TO THE EVOLVING RESOURCES THAT REPRESENTATIVES MENTIONED.

>>: WHAT WOULD BE THE STATE OF THE COAL INDUSTRY IN INDIANA?

WITHOUT ANY LEGISLATIVE ACTION?

WOULD IT EXIST IN TEN YEARS?

>>: LAST NIGHT 51 PERCENT OF THE ENERGY GENERATED WAS FROM CALL.

SO AS I WOKE UP THIS MORNING AND TURNED ON THE LIGHT I BELIEVE THERE IS A ROLE FOR COLE TO PLAY NOT ONLY IN TEN YEARS, BUT IN 20 AND 30 AND THAT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE TO HAVE A BACKBONE OF RELIABLE DISPATCH A BOWL OF AFFORDABLE ENERGY IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES THIS WEEK REALLY MAKE THAT CASE FOR US.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE THAT AND INDIANA WILL BE THERE SUPPLY IN THE WORLD.

>>: AS YOU POINT OUT THE INDUSTRY WHILE IT'S SMALLER THAN IT USED TO BE, CERTAINLY IT EMPLOYS 2500 PEOPLE AND IS WORTH $750 MILLION A YEAR IN TERMS OF THE ECONOMY IN INDIANA.

JESSE, TEN YEARS WITHOUT LEGISLATIVE INTERVENTION.

>>: TWO THOUGHTS COME TO MIND, JON.

ONE IS IT WOULD MEAN THAT INDIANA UTILITIES WOULD BE GOVERNED BY EXISTING LAW AND THAT WOULD MEAN THEY GO BY THEIR INTEGRATED RESOURCE PLANS WHICH SUGGEST IS PRETTY SYSTEMATIC TRANSITION FROM A FOSSIL FUEL DOMINATED ECONOMY TO ONE THAT WOULD BE POWERED BY BOTH UTILITY PLUS UTILITY STORAGE.

THE SECOND THING THAT WOULD HAPPEN IN THAT SCENARIO WOULD BE A MISSED OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY INVEST IN MAKING THE GRID MORE RESILIENT WHICH, OF COURSE, GETS ALL THE MORE RELEVANCE IN THE CONTEXT OF THE WINTER STORM.

SO IT WOULD MEAN FORGOING OPPORTUNITIES TO INVEST IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY WHICH MEANS REDUCING THE ENERGY LOAD AND DECENTRALIZING THE GRID SO THAT IF SOME GENERATION ASSETS ON THE GRID GETS KNOCKED OUT OTHER PARTS WOULD CONTINUE TO FUNCTION JUST AS IT HAPPENED WITH SUPERSTORM SANDY.

>>: NOW THAT WE'VE GONE A DECADE AHEAD LET'S GO BACK TO THE CREATION OF THE TASK FORCE WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER THAT YOUR VIEW -- AND YOU WERE A MEMBER OF.

YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF ATTENTION NATIONALLY AT THE TIME OF THAT CREATION BECAUSE IT WAS ATTACHED TO I DON'T KNOW IF YOU USE THE MORATORIUM BUT A SLOW DOWN IN THE CONSTRUCTION OF ALTERNATIVE PLANTS -- BASICALLY TELLING EVERYBODY THIS IS NOT THE OFFICIAL LANGUAGE, BUT TAKE A DEEP BREATH, DON'T DO ANYTHING UNTIL WE FIGURE THIS OUT AS A STATE.

YOU MET, CAME UP WITH THE PLAN NOW YOU WANT TO EXTEND -- THAT EXPIRED.

IT'S SUNSET IN NOVEMBER.

YOU WANT TO GO TO YEARS.

>>: FIRST OF ALL ENERGY TOPICS ARE COMPLEX.

QUITE FRANKLY, TO THE PUBLIC A LITTLE BIT BORING.

AND YOU TOUCH ONE THING AND IT CHANGES SOMETHING ELSE.

WE SPENT -- WE HAD OVER 100 TESTIMONIES DURING THAT TIME TO HELP US GET TO A POSITION THAT I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION HAS BOUGHT INTO AND THEN IS WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE RENEWABLES WITHOUT COMPROMISING RELIABILITY OR AFFORDABILITY.

AND TRYING TO REACH THAT BALANCE SO WE SPENT MOST OF OUR TIME JUST LOOKING AT HOW THE GRID OPERATED AND WHAT OUR CONTRIBUTION NEEDED TO BE AND SO FORTH.

AND I MAY BE REPEATING MYSELF, THE TOUGH THING OF BEING CHAIRMAN OF THIS COMMITTEE VERSUS MY TEN YEAR CHAIRMANSHIP AND TRANSPORTATION ISSUE HAVE TO CUT THROUGH THE HYPERBOLE ON BOTH SIDES TO GET TO WHAT IS FACT.

WE LEFT A LOT OF THINGS ON THE TABLE.

FOR EXAMPLE, ELECTRIC VEHICLES.

WHO IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE RETAIL SALES?

SHOULD THE BIG UTILITIES WHICH ARE MONOPOLIES CONTROL EVERYTHING FROM THE GENERATION TO THE RETAIL OR SHOULD THERE BE OTHER OPPORTUNITIES.

>>: SOLAR PANELS ANOTHER ONE -- >> WE KEEP HEARING THAT -- IT WILL SAVE THE WORLD.

ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS MANDATE THEM.

WE HAVE 24 INCHES OF SNOW RIGHT NOW.

AND I WANT TO KNOW WHO WILL PAY FOR THOSE HEAT PUMPS AND WHERE WE ARE GOING TO GET THE ELECTRICITY IF WE DON'T MANAGE THE GRID WELL.

WE HAVE THAT AND SECURITIZATION.

WE HAVE A NUMBER OF TOPICS THAT WE NEED TO EXPLORE THAT ARE COMPLEX.

>>: THIS WOULD CONTINUE MORE OR LESS AS IT HAS, BUT WITH A DIFFERENT COMPOSITION AND MATT PIERCE, THAT IS SOMETHING YOU HAVE RAISED QUESTIONS ABOUT.

IF YOU ARE A, FEWER EXPERTS ON ESSENTIALLY NO GUARANTEE THERE IS ANY REPRESENTATION ON THE PART OF INDIANA CONSUMERS.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE?

>>: I THINK THE INITIAL TASK FORCE HAD A BROAD MAKEUP.

WHEN YOU DO THESE SUMMERS STUDY THINGS THERE ARE A COUPLE OF WAYS TO DO IT.

YOU CAN PUT ALL THE STAKEHOLDERS ON THERE AND LET THEM BATTLE IT OUT AND HOPE YOU CAN REACH A COMPROMISE SO YOU CAN TRY TO HAVE IT MOSTLY DOMINATED BY PEOPLE WHO ARE MORE OBJECTIVE WHO THEORETICALLY HAVE THE INDEPENDENT KNOWLEDGE OF THESE INDUSTRIES THAT CAN GIVE YOU SOME OBJECTIVE ADVICE AND ANALYSIS.

AND I THINK WE WERE CLOSER TO THAT MODEL IN THE LAST TASK FORCE.

>>: EVEN BREAKDOWN AMONG LAWMAKERS, WHICH I THINK YOUR PLAN WOULD NOW BE HEAVILY REPUBLICAN.

THAT'S A REPRESENTATION SO ANOTHER EXAMPLE.

>>: MY POINT WAS IF THE GOAL OF ANY TASK FORCE OR SUMMER STUDY COMMITTEE IS TO REACH A CONSENSUS ON WHAT IS DONE SO WHEN YOU GET LEGISLATION BEFORE THE FULL GENERAL ASSEMBLY IT HAS A SMOOTHER PATH.

I THINK IF YOU ACHIEVE THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE MORE BALANCE IN THE SUMMER STUDY COMMITTEES ARE BALANCE.

THIS IS A TASK FORCE BUT, I MEAN, THE SUMMER STUDY COMMITTEES HAVE A SLIGHT ADVANTAGE TO THE MAJORITY PARTY BECAUSE THEY GET TO NAME THE COCHAIRS BUT THE RANK-AND-FILE APPOINTEES OF THE DIFFERENT CAUCUSES ARE NORMALLY EQUAL AND THAT'S NOT THE CASE WITH THE CURRENT TASK FORCE THAT'S MOVING THROUGH THE SESSION NOW.

>>: AND HOW SIGNIFICANT -- PRESUMABLY THIS PANEL WILL BE RECONSTITUTED.

THE BILL SEEMS TO BE SAILING THROUGH THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

IT'S IN THE SENATE NOW.

DO YOU HAVE A LOT OF -- PUT A LOT OF STOCK INTO WHAT THEY COME UP WITH OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS?

>>: I GIVE ALL MEMBERS OF THE TASK FORCE TREMENDOUS CREDIT FOR THE WORK THEY'VE DONE OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

TO A PERSON I THINK THEY DID EXACTLY WHAT REPRESENTATIVE PIERCE DESCRIBED AND THAT WAS DIVE DEEP INTO THE ISSUE -- ISSUES EXCUSE ME.

UNDERSTAND THE IMPACT OF THE DECISIONS THEY'VE MADE.

IT CREATED A WONDERFUL EXCHANGE FOR EVERY STAKEHOLDER.

THERE WAS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO TELL OUR STORY THE OPPORTUNITY FOR OTHER FOLKS TO TELL THEIRS.

IT WAS A MATURE THOUGHTFUL WAY TO APPROACH POLICY AND I'VE NO REASON TO BELIEVE IT WILL BE THE SAME GOING FORWARD.

>>: JESSE, DO YOU THINK THE TASK FORCE IS LEGITIMATE FACT-FINDING GROUP OR DO YOU THINK AS SOME DO THAT IT IS SIMPLY POLITICAL COVER FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO PROP UP THE COAL INDUSTRY?

>>: THAT'S A COMPLEX QUESTION.

>>: TEN SECONDS TO ANSWER.

>>: WE PARTICIPATED IN THE TASK FORCE THREE DIFFERENT TIMES AND WE APPRECIATE THE NUMBER OF TOPICS OF ELECTRIC GENERATION AND OTHERS THAT ARE BEING DISCUSSED BUT IF WE TRULY WANT TO MAKE ENERGY POLICY A DATA DRIVEN PROCESS THEN SOMETHING AS COMPLEX OR SOMETHING LIKE SECURITIZATION, WHICH IS DISCUSSED OUGHT TO BE DEFERRED.

>>: OF EFFECTIVELY FINDING A WAY TO PAY FOR THE NEW PLANT IN THE RETIREMENT OF THE OLD PLANT IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T SUCK CONSUMERS.

>>: EXACTLY.

>>: SO A LOT TO CHEW ON HERE SO THAT'S A BILL THE SECURITIZATION THAT'S ONE OF THE ELEMENTS.

YOU TALK ABOUT THE RENEWAL OR RECONSTITUTION OF THE TASK FORCE.

OTHER BILLS THAT HAPPEN TO BE BEARING YOUR NAME THAT APPEARED LIKELY TO WIN WOULD BE RELIABILITY, MECHANISMS AND BASICALLY THEY WOULD HAVE TO PROVE THE REGULATORY COMMISSION THEY CAN PROVIDE POWER AND A RELIABLE MANNER AND IF THEY CAN'T THEN STEPS WOULD BE TAKEN AND YOU WANT TO DICTATE THE SITING OF WIND FARMS AND IN DOING SO MAYBE SOME WOULD SAY YOU SERVE THE ROLE OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

I MEAN WE COULD SPEND HOURS ON THIS, BUT I WANT EVERYBODY TO HAVE A CHANCE WHAT'S BEHIND THESE BILLS.

>>: THERE'S ONLY ABOUT 40 COUNTIES IN THE STATE OF INDIANA THAT CAN SUPPORT AND HAVE ENOUGH WIND TO MAKE IT VIABLE.

32 BAND OR PUT A MORATORIUM ON WIND AND WE ARE GOING TO BE BUYING RENEWABLE.

AND TRANSMISSION IS EXPENSIVE.

ONE OF THE MOST RAPIDLY RISING COST SO EARLY IN THE MORNING WE ARE BUYING A LOT OF WIND RIGHT NOW FROM THE DAKOTA'S IOWA AND SO FORTH.

THE PIPE IS NOT BIG ENOUGH TO MEET PEAK DEMAND.

SO WHAT HAPPENED IS THERE WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE TRAVELING AROUND THE STATE WHO WERE ANTI-RENEWABLE AND THEY WERE LITERALLY INTIMIDATING THE COMMISSIONERS AND SO FORTH SO WHAT WE SAID IS WHY DON'T WE SHARE RESPONSIBILITY WITH THE COMMISSIONERS AND SET SOME STANDARDS AND WHAT SORT OF ESCAPED IN THE HYPERBOLE IS THEY HAVE ROOM TO OUR STANDARDS THAT WE HAVE SET AND THEY ARE PROBABLY THE MOST RESTRICTIVE MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN ANY CONTRACT THAT'S BEEN SIGNED SO THEY HAVE ROOM TO NEGOTIATE.

IT IS NOT A DICTATORSHIP AND JUST I WOULD SAY THIS.

I HEAR ABOUT LOCAL CONTROL.

IT'S NOT IN THE BIBLE OR THE CONSTITUTION.

IT'S A GOOD MANAGEMENT TECHNIQUE TO MAKE DECISIONS HAVE BEEN AT THE LOWEST MODEL BUT WHEN A COUNTY DOES SOMETHING THAT AFFECTS OTHER COUNTIES ABILITIES.

>>: SO LET'S ASSESS THAT LEGISLATION.

>>: I SUPPORTED IT.

I HAVE TO ADMIT I'M A STRONG SUPPORTER OF LOCAL CONTROL SO I WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE DIDN'T HAVE LEGISLATION THAT TOOK LOCALS COMPLETELY OUT OF IT.

THERE IS A ROLE IN THE BILL WITHIN PARAMETERS.

THE PROBLEM WAS THAT THESE BLANKET BANDS WAS DEPRIVING THE STATE OF ECONOMIC BENEFITS SO WE NEED TO GET TO A PLACE WHERE WE CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT AND THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR FARMERS TO MAKE SIGNIFICANT MONEY AND THERE IS MORE ASSESSED VALUES FOR THE COUNTIES THAT ALLOW THEM TO DO MORE FOR THEIR PEOPLE AS FAR AS THEIR OWN ROADS IN THE SERVICES PEOPLE EXPECT FROM THE COUNTY GOVERNMENT SO THERE ARE A LOT OF BENEFITS THT CAN COME FROM THAT AND IF YOU STEP BACK AT THE BIG PICTURE IF YOU WANT TO GET TO A ZERO CARBON ENERGY ECONOMY YOU HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO PUT THE RESOURCES TO DO THAT.

IF YOU TAKE 30 COUNTIES OFF THE MAP FOR THAT POSSIBILITY THAT GETS IN THE WAY OF THAT GOAL.

>>: I MENTIONED TO BILLS.

I'M GUESSING YOU AND YOUR ORGANIZATION ARE FAR MORE CONCERNED WITH THE RELIABILITY, THE PROOF OF RELIABILITY OF SERVICE AS OPPOSED TO THE LOCATION OF WIND FARMS OR AM I WRONG?

>>: WE FOLLOW THE WORK THAT GENTLEMEN DO CLOSELY, BUT WE ARE PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION TO CHAIRMAN'S RELIABILITY MEASURE.

I THINK IT'S REFLECTIVE OF WHAT THE TASK FORCE TALKED ABOUT AND THAT WAS WE WANT MARKETS TO WORK.

WE UNDERSTAND MARKETS ARE REAL, BUT WE HAVE NEEDS AS A STATE TO ENSURE AFFORDABILITY, AVAILABILITY AND POWER TO HOOSIER CITIZENS THE MECHANISMS PUT IN PLACE IN THE LEGISLATION WHERE A GREAT STEP IN THAT DIRECTION IF IN FACT, THEY WILL IMPLEMENT A BUYER.

THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY WILL BE THE MOST CRITICAL PIECE WILL THEY WORK TO ENACT A LEGISLATION IN THE SPIRIT IN WHICH IT'S BEEN DRAFTED OR DOES THIS BECOME A CHECK BOX MECHANISM, BUT THAT WILL BE CRITICAL TO THE SUCCESS OF THIS LEGISLATION.

>>: JESSE I KNOW YOUR ORGANIZATION FOLLOWS ALL OF THE BILLS AS WELL AND I WOULD ARE YOU THEY ARE ALL IMPORTANT TO YOU AND YOUR CONSTITUENTS, BUT IN YOUR CASE I'M GUESSING DECIDING THE WIND FARMS IS AN EVEN MORE PRESSING ISSUE AND THAT'S A TOUGH ONE AS MATT PIERCE SUGGESTED FOR THE CHAMPIONS OF GREEN CAUSES I'M NOT SURE WHERE ENVIRONMENTAL'S COME DOWN ON THAT BILL.

YOU ARE PRO WIND BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE TRADITIONALLY HAVE KEPT LOCAL CONTROL AND GOVERNMENTS TO KEEP ON US ENVIRONMENTAL PROJECTS AWAY SO HOW DO YOU SQUARE THAT?

>>: THAT'S RIGHT.

FIRST OF ALL, WE ARE SUPPORTERS OF RENEWABLES WHETHER THAT'S WIND OR SOLAR, BUT IT'S EQUALLY IMPORTANT WE THINK ABOUT THE REPERCUSSIONS OF WHERE THESE FARMS ARE LOCATED AND HOW THEY ARE DESIGNED.

WE ARE ENTERING A CONSEQUENTIAL PERIOD WHEN IT COMES TO SOLAR ENERGY WE WILL HAVE 8,500 MEGAWATTS OF SOLAR BUILT IN INDIANA OVER THIS DECADE ACCORDING TO THE INTEGRATED RESOURCE PLANS AND UTILITIES UTILITIES AND THAT CONSTITUTES ANYWHERE FROM 50000-100,000 AREAS OF LAND AND THAT'S THE SAME SIZE IN INDIANA SO IT'S GOING TO HAVE GREAT CONSEQUENT OVER STORMWATER ISSUES AND HABITAT ISSUES AND SO FORTH.

AND WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A TRUE AUTHENTIC LOCAL CONTROL WHEN IT COMES TO THE GROUNDCOVER POTENTIALLY OF 75,000 ACRES.

>>: ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT THE POLLINATING PLANTS AND THE IMPACT ON ANIMALS THAT NEED TO POLLINATE.

THEY NEED THOSE TO SURVIVE AND THRIVE.

>>: THAT'S ONE ASPECT OF THE ISSUE WE'VE EXPERIENCED A 30 PERCENT REDUCTION IN BIRD SINCE THE 19 '70s AND 90 PERCENT REDUCTION PER ACRE SO SOLAR FARMS AND OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY HAVE BEEN USED AS FRIENDLY LANDSCAPES, BUT WE DON'T WANT THE PUBLIC TO ALSO -- WE WANT THE PUBLIC TO BE AWARE THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS OF GETTING GROUNDCOVER, RIGHT WHICH LOCAL GOVERNMENTS HAVE THE BEST UNDERSTANDING OF FROM THE STORMWATER CONTROL PERSPECTIVE CONSERVATION PERSPECTIVE WILDLIFE HABITAT PERSPECTIVE.

IF I COULD SPEAK TO THE RELIABILITY BILL WE LIKE THE BILL AS IT IS WHICH I WOULD THINK WOULD BE COMMON GROUND BETWEEN THE REPRESENTATIVES, BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THE BILL DOESN'T GET MORPHED EITHER IN THIS SESSION OR SUBSEQUENT SESSIONS THE WAY MIGHT ARTIFICIALLY AFFECT THE DECISIONS OF THE UTILITIES IN A WAY.

>>: AND THE REMAINING TIME WE HAVE YOU MENTION LOCAL CONTROL SO THERE ARE SEVERAL OTHERS THAT TOUCH ON THAT.

NOT YOUR BILLS, BUT YOU ARE DEALING WITH THEM NEVERTHELESS AND ONE IS -- THE UPSHOT WAS THAT UNIVERSITIES FOR INSTANCE, AN AMENDMENT THAT WAS ADDED CAN'T PURSUE GREEN PROJECTS THAT AREN'T -- DON'T HAVE A RETURN ON INVESTMENT AND STARTED WITH A BILL THAT WOULD PREVENT MUNICIPALITIES AND OTHER GOVERNMENTS FROM BORROWING NEW HOME CONSTRUCTION FROM FEATURING NATURAL GAS.

SO DO YOU THINK THE STATE IS REALLY DECIDED TO ROLL UP ITS SLEEVE AND GET INVOLVED IN LOCAL BUSINESSES AS IT RELATES TO THE ENVIRONMENT?

>>: THE ISSUE IS THE NUMBER OF FOLKS WHAT HAPPENED IN CALIFORNIA CITIES WERE THEY BANNED NATURAL GAS AND THE WAR ON COAL GENERALLY WHAT HAS CAUSED COAL TO DECLINE IS THE PRICE OF NATURAL GAS.

NOT WINDFARMS.

AND NOT SOLAR ARRAYS.

BUT WHEN THEY SAW CITIES BANNING NATURAL GAS AS I MENTIONED, FEWER WERE TO BAN NATURAL GAS IN GERRY AND POOR PEOPLE UP THERE.

THEY COUNT ON NATURAL GAS TO HEAT THEIR HOMES.

SOMEBODY DECIDES TO GET IN FRONT OF THEIR SKIS AND BE POLITICALLY CORRECT AND BANNED THEM, WE DIDN'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN.

WHAT WE WANTED WAS THE MARKETPLACE TO TAKE ITS NATURAL COURSE AND NOT BE WRAPPED UP IN POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.

>>: TEN SECONDS.

YOUR CONSTITUENTS YOU REPRESENT THEY WILL NOT LOOK KINDLY ON THIS.

>>: THE INTRODUCED VERSION OF THAT WAS A GONER BECAUSE NO ONE'S TALKING ABOUT NATURA GAS AND SOMEHOW THE AMENDMENT SHOWS UP WHICH GETS INTO THE BUSINESS OF THE UNIVERSITIES AND KEEPS THEM FROM DOING THINGS THEY WANT TO DO AS CONSUMERS.

YOU HAVE IT BUILT IS LET'S MAKE SURE, CONSUMERS CHOOSE THEIR ENERGY AND WE HAVE AN AMENDMENT TELLING THEM, BUT YOU CAN'T DO THAT UNLESS YOU MEET OUR CRAZY PARAMETERS SO THAT IS CRAZY TOWN IN MY OPINION.

>>: WE NEED THE TRANSLATION GUIDE ABOUT WHAT THEY MEAN AND WHAT THEY PURPORT TO MEAN AND THIS TOPIC ESPECIALLY IN THE ENVIRONMENT.

AN IMPORTANT TOPIC ENERGY AND UTILITIES.

WE KNOW IT'S TOP OF MIND FOR ALL OF US.

AGAIN, MY GUESTS HAVE BEEN: REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE ED SOLIDAY OF VALPARAISO, DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVE MATT PIERCE OF BLOOMINGTON, MATT BELL OF RELIABLE ENERGY, AND JESSE KHARBANDA OF THE HOOSIER ENVIRONMENTAL COUNCIL.

>>>ONCE AGAIN, THE PUSH IS ON TO DO AWAY WITH HANDGUN LICENSES, BUT WILL IT PASS?

WE'LL SHOOT FROM THE HIP ON THE NEXT INDIANA LAWMAKERS.

>>>TIME NOW FOR OUR WEEKLY CONVERSATION WITH INDIANA LAWMAKERS' POWERHOUSE ANALYST, ED FEIGENBAUM, PUBLISHER OF THE NEWSLETTER INDIANA LEGISLATIVE INSIGHT, PART OF HANNAH NEWS SERVICE.

WE HEARD A LOT OF TALK ABOUT ENERGY AND THE ENVIRONMENT.

WHERE IS THE CONSUMER AND HOW DOES THE CONSUMER FIT INTO ALL @OF THIS?

>>: IT'S A HUGE ARGUMENT, A HUGE BATTLE ON THE REGULATORY FRONT IN GENERAL AND WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK IN TAXES THE REGULATION OF ENERGY, REGULATION OF UTILITIES STILL IS IMPORTANT THESE DAYS.

WE ARE SEEING THAT SOME MISTAKES WERE MADE BY THE, FOLKS IN TAXES AND THE PEOPL IN INDIANA DON'T WANT TO REPEAT THOSE.

THE CONSUMER NEEDS TO BE AWARE ON BOTH SIDES, THE CONSUMER NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND THAT UNDER THE PROPOSALS UNDER CONSIDERATION THE COST SAVINGS MAY NOT BE PASSED ON TO THEM AND MAY STAY A LITTLE BIT HIGHER IN THE FOOD CHAIN AND ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN IF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT RENEWABLES, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND YOUR RENEWABLES MAYBE CHEAP IN THE BEGINNING, BUT THAT'S TYPICALLY BECAUSE THEY ARE SUBSIDIZED AND ONCE THAT SUBSIDY IS REDUCED OR REMOVED THAN THE COST TO THE CONSUMERS GO WAY UP AND WE ARE SEEING THAT WITH ETHANOL, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE THE COST STARTED OUT PRETTY LOW AND WE SAW A LOT OF PLANTS LOCATED IN INDIANA AND AS THE SUBSIDIES STARTED TO CHANGE AND SAY WHY ARE WE SUBSIDIZING THESE COMPANIES?

ALL OF A SUDDEN IT BECAME A LITTLE LESS ECONOMICAL TO PRODUCE THIS PARTICULAR FUEL AND WE STARTED SEEING PLANTS CLOSE.

COSTS GO UP.

SO THERE ARE TRADE-OFFS ON BOTH SIDES AND CONSUMERS NEED TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT DOES HAPPEN GOING FORWARD.

THE KEY THING THOUGH JON, AS THE MARKET IS GOING TO CONTROL THINGS WE'VE SEEN THE MARKET DRIVE UTILITIES FROM COAL TO NATURAL GAS OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS BECAUSE OF THE COST.

>>: SO WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT SAVING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS CONSUMER SHOULD NOT POP THE CORK YET OR BUY A NEW CAR.

ANYTHING ELSE?

A MILESTONE IN THE SESSION AND BILLS HAD TO LEAVE THE HOUSE OF ORIGIN AND WHAT SHOULD WE BE LOOKING FOR.

>>: HARD TO BELIEVE WE ARE APPROACHING THE MIDWAY POINT WITH SUCH A CONFUSING SESSION.

THERE'S A LOT OF LEGISLATION CRAMMED INTO COMMITTEE HEARINGS IN THE LAST 7-10 DAYS WITH THIS PAST WEEK FRIDAY THE 18TH BEING THE LAST -- THAT'S THE 18TH OR 19TH WHATEVER.

BEING THE LAST DAY FOR HEARINGS IN THE CHAMBER OF ORIGIN.

THERE'S A LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE AND WE WILL SEE A LOT OF WORK IN THIS NEXT WEEK IN SECOND READINGS AND THE PASSENGERS BILL.

>>: I WILL ANSWER THAT FOR YOU.

STAY TUNED.

AS ALWAYS, WE APPRECIATE YOUR INSIGHT.

THANKS MUCH.

FOR MORE INFORMATION, EPISODE STREAMS AND OTHER EXTRA CONTENT VISIT US ON THE WEB AT WFYI.ORG/LAWMAKERS.

>>>WELL, THAT CONCLUDES ANOTHER EDITION OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS.

I'M JON SCHWANTES, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, UNTIL NEXT WEEK, TAKE CARE.