Paskus: COUNCILMAN HERRERA, WELCOME TO THE STUDIO.

SO, ON ONE OF THE RECENT EPISODES OF OUR LAND, WE FOCUSED ON PUBLIC LANDS.

LANDS THAT ARE OPEN TO EVERYONE FOR EVERYONE TO ACCESS.

BUT I WOULD IMAGINE THAT FOR PUEBLO PEOPLE HERE IN NEW MEXICO, THAT IS A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT IDEA.

THESE MIGHT BE ANCESTRAL HOMELANDS THAT ARE NOW NATIONAL FORESTS OR NATIONAL MONUMENTS THAT ARE CONTROLLED BY FEDERAL MANAGERS AND CAN BE CHANGED THROUGH AN ACT OF CONGRESS.

I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD HELP US AND HELP OUR AUDIENCE UNDERSTAND WHAT LANDSCAPES AND PUBLIC LANDS MEAN FOR THE PUEBLO OF COCHITI.

Herrera: WELL, PUBLIC LAND, MY FIRST INCLINATION TO THE WAY IT FEELS FOR NATIVE AMERICAN IS THAT IT IS ALIVE.

IT IS OUR MOTHER.

IT PROVIDED FOR US SINCE TIME WAY BACK AND IT WILL BE THERE PROVIDING FOR US IF WE ALLOW IT TO.

AND RIGHT NOW WE CAN SEE SOME OF THE CALAMITIES INVOLVED AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN STRAIGHTEN SOME OF THEM OUT, TO GIVE HER A BETTER FIGHTING CHANCE TO SURVIVE AND DO HER JOB AND, IN TURN, LET US DO OUR JOB IN STEWARDSHIP AND PROTECTING HER AND ENCOURAGING HER TO A MORE LIVELIHOOD.

Paskus: RECENTLY SENATOR HEINRICH INTRODUCED A BILL THAT WOULD CHANGE BANDELIER NATIONAL MONUMENT INTO BANDELIER NATIONAL PARK.

MANY OF THE PUEBLOS IN THE STATE HAVE SAID THEY SUPPORT THIS BILL BUT THE PUEBLO OF COCHITI DOES NOT.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT YOUR CONCERNS ARE WITH THIS BILL?

Herrera: OUR PRIMARY CONCERN IS THAT IT IS THE TRADITIONAL AND ABORIGINAL HOME TO THE PUEBLO OF COCHITI AND PRIMARILY THE KERES TRIBES HERE.

IT IS LOCATED ON OUR MIGRATION ROUTES.

IT IS PROBABLY ABOUT THE LAST PLACE THAT WE SPENT ALL AS ONE PEOPLE BEFORE MOVING TO OUR PERMANENT LOCATION.

SO, IT HAS A LOT OF SIGNIFICANCE THERE.

IT HAS BEEN PROVIDED WITH A LOT OF SPIRITUAL AND SACRED SITES TO HELP MAINTAIN OUR CULTURAL WAY OF LIFE.

Laura: AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THE BILL WOULD OPEN UP ABOUT 4300 ACRES TO HUNTING THAT CURRENTLY ARE WITHIN THE MONUMENT.

WHAT ARE YOUR WORRIES WITH THAT?

Herrera: WELL, OBVIOUSLY IT IS THE INFLUX OF PEOPLE AND THE CROWDS.

ANY TIME YOU GET SOMETHING REDESIGNATED FROM A NATIONAL MONUMENT TO NATIONAL PARK WE ARE LOOKING AT MAYBE A HUNDRED FOLD INCREASE IN CROWDS.

SO THERE HAS BEEN NUMEROUS FIRES IN THE LOCATION.

SO THE ENVIRONMENT IS IN A VERY FRAGILE AND INFANCY STAGE THAT IS COMING BACK TO LIFE RIGHT NOW.

AND SO, IT HAS TO BE PROPERLY TAKEN CARE OF.

Paskus: SO, I APOLOGIZE IF THIS IS TOO PERSONAL BUT CAN YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT LANDSCAPE OR THE RELATIONSHIP THAT OTHER PEOPLE FROM THE PUEBLO OF COCHITI HAVE WITH THAT LANDSCAPE EITHER IN TERMS OF THE WILDLIFE THAT IS THERE OR THE SPACES, THE LANDSCAPE, LIKE WHY IT IS SO IMPORTANT THAT IT BE PROTECTED?

Herrera: A LOT OF OUR HOLY PEOPLE STILL GO INTO THESE AREAS, WE GO IN THERE FOR PILGRIMAGE.

WE HAVE NUMEROUS, LIKE I SAID, SACRED SITES IN THERE.

WE HAVE OLD VILLAGES IN THERE.

THE LAST MESA WHERE WE MADE OUR LAST STAND AGAINST DE VARGAS IS IN THAT IMMEDIATE LOCATION, SO IT HAS A LOT OF VERY SIGNIFICANT, YOU KNOW, SIGNIFICANCE TO US AS A PUEBLO PEOPLE IN OUR STRUGGLE IN OUR LIVES AND SO MUCH MEANING TO US, THAT IT HELPS US MAINTAIN OUR WAY OF LIFE.

THESE DAYS, IF YOU CAN SEE SINCE THE FIRST POINT OF CONTACT FIVE, 600 YEARS AGO AND WHERE THE AMERICAN INDIAN IS NOW TODAY AND WHAT DO YOU PICTURE IT TO BE IN ANOTHER 500 YEARS, THESE ARE THE SITES THAT ARE AVAILABLE FOR OUR CHILDREN TO HELP MAINTAIN THEIR WAY OF LIFE AND TO KEEP THEIR WAY OF LIFE.

AND YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THESE PLACES ARE THERE AS AIDE IN HELPING US PROTECT OURSELVES, HELPING US IDENTIFY OURSELVES.

IF WE LOSE THAT, FOR INSTANCE, GOING INTO THE NATIONAL PARK, IT IS GOING TO INHIBIT US FROM GOING IN THERE AS FREELY AND AS PRIVATELY AS WE NORMALLY WOULD LIKE TO.

SO, THAT IS GOING TO BE A BIG PROBLEM FOR US BUT IT IS ALSO IDENTIFICATION PURPOSES FOR OUR YOUNGER PEOPLE AS YOU CAN SEE, LIKE I SAID, IN THE PAST 500 YEARS, WE'RE ON THE VERGE OF LOSING OR LANGUAGE RIGHT NOW, AND IF WE LOSE MORE, WHERE ARE WE GOING TO BE HERE IN ANOTHER 500 YEARS?

Paskus: THAT LANDSCAPE HAS, LIKE YOU MENTIONED, BEEN IMPACTED BY FIRES INCLUDING SOME BIG SEVERE FIRES.

HOW HAS THAT AFFECTED THE WILDLIFE THERE AND YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE WILDLIFE AND YOUR RELIANCE ON THE WILDLIFE?

Herrera: AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, WE NORMALLY GO UP THERE FOR CEREMONIALS AND HOLY PEOPLE GO THERE TO HELP TAKE CARE OF THE PEOPLE AND THE WHOLE WORLD AND, IN ESSENCE, WE PRAY FOR ALL PEOPLE, WE PRAY FOR OUR ENEMIES, WE PRAY FOR YOU AND PEOPLE ACROSS THE WORLD.

WE HELP OUR MOTHER TO STAY ALIVE AND THAT IS OUR PRIMARY CONCERN, SO, WE ARE TRYING OUR BEST AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET THIS MESSAGE ACROSS TO OTHER PEOPLE THAT IT IS ALIVE, VIBRANT, IT IS BREATHING.

Paskus: SO, THE BILL AS INTRODUCED WOULD ALSO INCLUDE A TRIBAL COMMISSION.

IS THAT A STEP FORWARD?

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS ALREADY SUPPOSED TO CONSULT WITH TRIBES ON ISSUES LIKE THESE.

SO, YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE TRIBAL COMMISSION THAT WOULD BE A PART OF THIS BILL?

Herrera: I DON'T KNOW THE VALIDITY IT HAS OR HOW MUCH POWER IT HAS.

THE FINAL OKAY FOR ANY SUGGESTION AT THE PUEBLO COMMISSION COULD SUGGEST STILL CAN BE OVERRIDDEN BY THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR.

SO, IF THEY COULD GIVE IT MORE MEAT, MAYBE.

I DON'T KNOW.

Paskus: DO YOU FEEL LIKE -- AND I KNOW YOU'RE SPEAKING FOR THE PUEBLO OF COCHITI -- BUT DO YOU FEEL LIKE WHEN THERE ARE THESE SORT OF BIG ISSUES THAT HAPPEN, WHETHER IT IS A BILL RELATED TO A NATIONAL MONUMENT AND LANDSCAPES OR OTHER ISSUES THAT AFFECT TRIBES, DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE A VOICE AND A SAY AND A SEAT AT THE TABLE?

HOW DOES THAT WORK?

Herrera: SPEAKING OF A SEAT AT THE TABLE, I THINK THAT IS WHAT MAY HAVE BROUGHT SOME OF THE PROBLEMS ABOUT HERE FOR COCHITI IS THERE WAS REALLY NO MAJOR PRIOR CONSULTATION OR ANYBODY COMING TO THE VILLAGE SAYING, HEY, WE ARE GOING TO PROPOSE THIS.

SENATOR MARTIN HEINRICH CAME TO THE PUEBLO DE COCHITI IN 2017 WHEN I WAS SERVING IN MY FIRST TERM AS GOVERNOR AND HE MADE NO MENTION OF IT TO US.

AND THE LEADERSHIP IN 2018 WAS GIVEN THE BURDEN OF HAVING TO ADDRESS IT AT THAT TIME WITH SENDING PROTEST LETTERS AT THAT TIME.

AND THEN I BECAME GOVERNOR AGAIN IN 2019, I WAS APPOINTED SO WE STARTED PURSUING IT AGAIN AND HERE WE ARE AGAIN NOW, STILL TALKING ABOUT IT.

Paskus: RIGHT.

COCHITI TRIBAL OFFICIALS RECENTLY WENT TO WASHINGTON D.C. TO TALK WITH FOLKS ABOUT THE BILL.

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN?

ARE THERE CHANGES TO THE BILL OR DO YOU JUST HOPE THAT IT DOESN'T PASS?

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE?

Herrera: I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT NOT PASS.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT DERAILED, IF WE COULD.

I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE READDRESSED, MAYBE THROUGH THE COUNCIL OF GOVERNORS AND DO IT THE PROPER WAY, YOU KNOW.

THEY NEED TO LISTEN TO OUR VOICE.

I KNOW THEY ARE CLAIMING THERE IS A MAJORITY OF THE PUEBLOS ARE IN FAVOR OF IT BUT THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE NOT.

AND IT IS PRIMARILY THE 10 SOUTHERN GOVERNORS COUNCIL THAT WE OPPOSE TO IT.

WE SENT IN LETTERS OF SUPPORT TO COCHITI PUEBLO, SO, WE STAND THERE NOW AND THAT IS WHERE WE ARE AT.

Paskus: ANY POSITIVES TO THE BILL?

ANYTHING ABOUT HOW IT COULD BE CHANGED THAT MIGHT MAKE THE PUEBLO OF COCHITI MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THE BILL?

Herrera: I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY ROOM FOR COMPROMISE BECAUSE, LIKE I SAID, THERE IS REVERENCE ON THE PUEBLO AND OTHER TRIBES FOR THE AREA, WE HAVE SO MANY CLOSE SPIRITUAL CONNECTIONS TO IT, LIKE I SAID, IT IS PROBABLY OUR LAST GATHERING.

Paskus: I WAS LOOKING AT A MAP AND THE PUEBLO COCHITI IS CLOSEST TO THIS AREA, IS THAT RIGHT, THAN SOME OF THE OTHER PUEBLOS?

Herrera: RIGHT.

IT IS A STONE'S THROW, MAYBE ABOUT A MILE TO THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY.

IT BORDERS UP AGAINST OUR RESERVATION TO THE NEWLY PURCHASED CANADA DE COCHITI WHICH WE PURCHASED SO WE HAVE THAT GOING ON.

THEY ARE TRESPASSING AND OTHER ISSUES.

WE HAVE TWO MONUMENTS ADJACENT TO THE RESERVATION, KASHA-KATUWE ON THE WEST AND WE SEE THE PROBLEMS WITH CROWDING THERE AND WE CAN IMAGINE WHAT WE CAN SEE IF BANDELIER WERE TO TURN INTO A NATIONAL PARK.

Paskus: MY LAST QUESTION FOR YOU IS WHAT DO YOU WISH THAT PEOPLE IN NEW MEXICO BETTER UNDERSTOOD ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP THAT THE PUEBLO OF COCHITI HAS WITH THESE LANDSCAPES?

Herrera: IT IS THERE TO PROVIDE A HEALTHY WAY OF LIFE FOR EVERYBODY IN THIS WORLD AND THAT WE GO THERE TO HELP PRAY FOR ALL PEOPLE AND WE DON'T WANT THAT BROKEN.

IF THAT IS BROKEN, THEN WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN?

WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO FEND FOR OURSELVES.

AND IT IS GOING TO BE CHAOTIC AT THAT TIME.

RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE THE SOURCES THERE THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO KEEP INTACT SINCE THE MILLENNIUM.

IT HAS BEEN THERE, WAS GIVEN TO US BY THE CREATOR TO HELP US MAINTAIN AND KEEP THE WORLD IN HARMONY, WITH PEACE, AND WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT PURSUED ALONG THAT LINE.

Paskus: COUNCILMAN HERRERA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US TODAY.

Herrera: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR GIVING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE COCHITI PUEBLO'S PERSPECTIVE.

THANK YOU.