Welcome to Brazos Matters.

I'm Jay Socol.

Co-hosting with me today is campus student content contributor Macey Litterst, who's a senior journalism major at Texas A&M.

Macey, welcome.

Thank you.

Each semester when we have a new student join the Brazos Matters team, we have a conversation to determine what the student would be interested in researching and discussing on the show.

And you identified a few things that you either passionate or curious about.

And today's topic is one of those why don't you tell us about it?

Yes.

So throughout my years of college, I've seen Northgate in that area change a lot.

With the high rise buildings, the shutting downs of many bars, the making of new bars and some problems with fake IDs and them getting harder to recognize and I'm just curious to see what your point of views are on that.

So so that's where things started.

And then we, we sort of zoomed out a little bit.

And there are probably 50 ways we could approach Northgate as a show topic.

But today we're going to focus on the evolving public safety factors and trends and plans for the area, both broadly and specifically.

And so our guest is College Station Police Chief Billy Couch.

Chief, thanks for being here.

Absolutely happy to be here.

You betcha.

Macey.

Go ahead.

So I just wanted to ask, how long have you been in the College Station Police Department?

And how long have you been chief?

Been in the police department going on 28 years.

Been chief since, June of 2020.

So, you know, a little over five years.

And would you describe Northgate in the way that law de force law enforcement sees it?

You know, there's a lot, there's a lot of layers to Northgate, obviously.

You mentioned, in the beginning, the high rises, you know, all of that's new, you know, and, when I started here, Northgate was, an environment filled with a lot of churches and, seven bars.

And, now we're we're kind of there are still some church, churches in Northgate, and we have over 30 bars.

And then we probably added about 10,000 students with the high rises you mentioned.

So Northgate is, is a really, interesting environment, for our city.

Yeah.

So what are the boundaries of Northgate now?

Because when there were seven bars and a whole bunch of churches, I imagine the boundaries were different than what they are now.

Feels like it's expanded.

Yeah.

You know, we define, different probably than the city would, as far as for their planning stuff.

But, you know, we we do it from response perspective.

And the guys that really patrol Northgate for us are really just talking about that immediate, area where the bars are.

We used to extend over to South College because we had another bar, down there.

But now it's really just for us, the response area, for that area where the bars are at nighttime now, that goes away during the day so that that boundary expands in the we can respond to a larger geographic area, during the day than, than with our units at night.

We use, other units for the outlying areas.

At night.

Yeah.

Talk more about what what the changes have meant for for you and for College Station PD over the past decade or so.

You know, I think, I mean, just just to start with, the, the changing of the, of the high rises and, in the student population that has moved into Northgate, is a huge, win for the city and for the university.

I mean, I as a student, it would have been an amazing thing to have a residential area right across from campus.

So I think the what they're doing over there is, is absolutely necessary.

And in a, in a great benefit, to the university into the students and families that that, have have their kids here, Northgate during the day is, is just a far different, thing than it is at night.

At night, it, it kind of turns into a, entertainment area.

It's pretty large scale now, so we're we're in by that.

When I started with the smaller number of bars, you really just kind of had a student body, customer base, local, policed very consistently.

Now, it's not that way.

Now, the customer base for Northgate is broad and expansive, and people come from out of town on the weekends to come to Northgate.

So it doesn't necessarily police consistently like it once did.

So and the demands for an environment with 30 bars is different than an environment with seven bars.

So I have to staff that with a lot more resources.

In order to, manage, the chaos that they can it can come from, from Northgate.

Yeah.

Going off of that, do the high rise buildings, have you seen it become any harder to, like, control the area as a police department or do they not really have an effect like that?

No.

The high rises do a good job.

They somewhat police themselves.

They, they they're organized in a way to where if issues come about, not necessarily criminal matters, but things that come about, within those buildings, they do a good job of they're attentive to the residential needs.

So they they deal with that stuff.

For us, the high rises probably collectively create about 500 calls for service a year.

Whereas Northgate it's going to generate about at night is going to generate about 10 to 12,000 calls.

So the high rises are not a big demand for us.

And they do a really good job of, of taking care of their, the residents.

So it reduces the need for police services.

Although we do respond and are ready to respond when needed.

It's not a, it's not a real often occurrence.

Yeah, absolutely.

And what are some challenges you have seen in the police department, such as public safety or enforcement?

And what are the consistent crim We've always been police agency that takes a lot of burglary calls.

We have a, a target rich environment with students.

They don't, they don't often lock their cars.

They don't.

And they have nice things.

So since I began, it's always been sort of our crime.

Our leading crime is burglary, motor vehicle, those kind of things, lately, we've we've.

For the past few years, we've been seeing more theft of firearms from vehicles because people are more people are purchasing firearms and then, you know, leaving them in their cars or not being responsible, taking them out.

And we're seeing more theft of firearms from vehicles.

But those are some of our bigger crime trends that have been very consistent.

Northgate specific.

I mean, it's it's going to be all your alcohol related, offenses matter and possession manner, consuming alcohol, public intoxication.

It does attract, a lot of the high rises are, a younger student demographic.

So it does attract perhaps a younger student body into Northgate when the eligible age for drinking is 21.

So there are a lot of of the fake IDs in order for them to access bars or access drinks.

In, in the in they're also inexperienced consuming alcohol, and understanding the impact it can have.

So you see some some binge drinking or excessive drinking that then creates you know, an adverse outcome for them, whatever that that might be.

And it leads to, offenses like assault and stuff like that.

We see that a lot more.

And that's the reason that you'll you'll hear about or see us enforcing minor possession of alcohol because we're trying to curb those other offenses, those other consequences or trying to help prevent being a victim in that environment.

Absolutely.

So related to that, you know, I want to assume that more students in that area have meant more arrests for public intoxication.

DWI, MIP in the Northgate area.

Does data show that?

So, so, so more students there mean an increase in those sorts of, crimes that that people are arrested for?

But, I mean, that's my assumption, but, yeah.

Do the statistics actually prove that out?

Yeah.

I'm sure if you have more cars on the road, you're going to have more crashes.

So if you have more students doing it wrong, you potentially could have more citations or arrest.

Police count matters if, if I have four officers work in a large environment like that that's collected with a lot of people, less enforcement, but if I can have a full team up there, more police see more things and offenses occur in their presence, you're going to see more arrest and more citations.

So it's all kind of interconnected.

I guess.

I, you and I work together for a little bit at City of College Station, and there were times when you would share, you know, videos, body cam videos and things like that to just demonstrate what your officers there deal with.

On a routine basis.

At least on Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights and I was always, impressed with the with the amount of restraint and the amount of de-escalation that your officers use under those circumstances.

How do you train for that?

It is it is a challenge.

And it comes in that environment where you have, you could have upwards of 10,000 people on a weekend night in that environment, consuming alcohol and doing things, maybe while impaired that they wouldn't normally do.

So they do have a lot of restraint, in those, those officers that work that environment, they sign up for that assignment, right?

They they're very tolerant.

And they understand that the that the environment is created for them to explore and have a good time in.

So they do give them grace, to an extent, they expect them to go out there and have fun and do the things that, that, they enjoy.

So they are very tolerant in their in they're out there and they're, they're laughing and cutting up and smiling and taking pictures and, and really helping them, enjoy that environment safely.

But, the things that are going to call into question and put a stop to are the things that lead to unhealthy decisions to where they are.

They're going to become a victim.

They're going to get in a car and, and perhaps victimize someone else driving intoxicated.

Or they're just minors up there consuming alcohol that could then lead to other issues.

A lot of our public intoxication arrest, which is they've they've gotten intoxicated to the extent they're a danger to themselves or others, is often minors.

So and again, I think that goes back to the inexperience with understanding the impact of, of the consumption and what it could perhaps do.

So but yes, our, our officers that, that work, that environment are incredible.

They, number one to sign up for an assignment that is Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, regularly.

That's their schedule.

It says a lot about them.

And, and they do they embrace it and, and they do a really, really good job, policing that environment.

It's, it throws is it throws new challenges at them every time they work and they navigate those challenges.

Exceptional.

They're very professional, like you mentioned there.

They're, you know, really unprofessional environment at times, but they are always professional.

Yeah, yeah, it seems like there would need to be a very special kind of personality, a very special level of training, just for that environment versus some of the other areas of the city that might require patrolling.

And so for that, is that right?

Like, it I don't want to compare this to like a, a Seal team six.

But what I'm saying is it just feels like there is yeah, there is a higher level of you're right, training required.

I think it, it is the right personality for somebody in that environment.

But, I think you could attribute a lot of it to the coaching that they get from the leadership that they have up there.

We have some really good leaders, in those teams environments, helping to coach them up and, and work with them to, to really embrace and understand the dynamics.

Yeah.

Well, let's, let's, reset things a little bit if you're just tuning in.

I'm Jay Socol along with Macey Litterst, and our guest today is College Station Police Chief Billy Couch.

We're talking about Northgate from a public safety standpoint.

It has become Northgate has become such a densely populated area.

I think either you said or I've heard that there are at least 10,000 people living in this concentrated area.

And I understand why, from my time with the city, you concentrate students there, they have easy access to the university.

They may not need vehicles.

They can use scooters or bicycles or just walk in that sort of thing.

And by concentrating them there, you are helping, create less traffic in other parts of the city and those sorts of things.

But maybe there are some unintended consequences of, of there not seeming to be an apparent end to the building and the development.

It's like a city within a city.

What are your thoughts about that?

Yeah, I think you nailed all the points, in that, you know, I guess the market will control, what's developed and, and, I don't know how occupied the high rises are, but they are currently still building new ones, in us.

I can only assume that's, a demand of the market, and it calls for that because those are some incredible investments, for those kind of, structures to to be put on some really expensive, ground.

But yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't seem to be slowing down.

There are other projects, in development now and and some that I hear coming.

So, I think the university, growth has certainly called for some of that demand.

And, just thinking about it from a student's perspective.

And that might be a good, good question for our student, on the panel that, it seems to me if I was a student and I could afford it, that would be absolutely where I would want to live.

I try to part with that.

That sound right?

Yeah.

It's easy access to everything, especially campus, too, I agree.

There's city ordinance, that requires city council to approve, a new bar to replace an old bar in the same location.

Has that been a game changer in a way?

Or what kind of influence does that do you have with that process?

You know, that's a that is a new process that, it's been in place.

So if you if you want to open a bar in any other part of the city, you would have to go before council in there or through zoning or, or, you know, get some approvals and then it wouldn't have been council and council would then weigh in on, everything outside of the city that was removed.

That process was removed from Northgate many years ago, you know, 15 or 20 years ago that was removed from Northgate.

And I think that was the reason, and I think council at the time probably felt like, concentration of, of more bars in one area to create an entertainment, value for that part of town, would be beneficial.

So it made it easier for, for you to open a bar in Northgate.

Well, I don't think any of the council at that time forecasted the explosion of 30 bars in, in a small geographic area like that.

So we did, recently, go before council and ask that, it's a conditional use permit is what it is.

We ask that that be brought back into the Northgate, equation as well, so that council would have, a say in, in new bars coming into that environment because we really feel like it has reached, the maximum capacity for, for that and the environment as a, as a, I guess as a result is not as healthy on those peak nights when all the bars are open and all filling up with, that many, that many people.

So, we brought that back, it hasn't really had a impact.

There's not been anything new that came before council, since we've done that.

But it is in place, and it gives council at least an opportunity to hear, perhaps a business plan and be able to weigh in on is that environment in a position to where it can take on, whatever's being proposed?

And what is just from a student standpoint, I would love to know, what is your opinion on shutting down the bar and then them trying to open up new ones in replacement of that one?

Do you think that that's a good idea?

Like what do you think if something goes out of business?

I mean, I, I think there are likely, because of the condenser, the of the environment at night.

I think we have too many people in that area.

And it's in an creates a, creates a very unsafe environment.

So a reduction in bars could improve the amount of people collectively there, whether it's rideshare getting in and out or people finding parking, or just the, the number and magnitude of people in an environment where they're all perhaps consuming alcohol.

I mean, I think the market controls that if, if, if, we had some go out recently, that are really nice facilities, nice places.

And I assume that somebody absolutely that is in that, area would like to try to open reopen those.

And I don't think I would I would really have a way to weigh in on that.

There are, as you know, from going to Northgate, there's probably ten different styles of environments.

Right.

And, and, and, and ten bars of each style.

So I think each, each bar at times fills up.

So there are people who like a certain type of environment, environment of a bar and then others that like a different type.

But the people are coming.

It's just it is a lot of people in it can't get to a point of being unsafe, regardless of police and, and stuff.

So, yeah, I think over time, a reduction in the number of bars.

And really, it's not just that, it's, it's, the daytime environment.

There are a lot of people moving around, and maybe we can get to a point to where we can see the, the, opening of some daytime businesses, to where you have some diversity in that environment.

Absolutely.

And what do future strategies for reducing crime in Northgate look like for the police department, and what kind of additional funding and staffing are needed to make that happen?

So, currently we're staffed.

Well, we've we've gotten a good, good response from the city manager's office.

We've gotten good response from the City Council as far staffing Northgate, for those demands.

We have, an environment up there that we lease for their office space so they can work in the environment.

It makes it easier for them.

They do function off of bicycles.

A lot of the a lot of the time.

And they can launch from their office into the environment back to the office.

Those kind of things.

And I wouldn't quite clear on the first part of the, I just asked what future strategies for reducing crime in Northgate.

What does that look like for the police department?

So there are some, element of, the criminal element that comes to Northgate, that are more preying for victims.

We have some gang activity.

We have some, some true criminal element that we find in Northgate that are committing some crime, whether it's narcotics distribution, thefts or other assaults, things like that.

So we have, some specially trained guys that will put in that environment to identify and, you know, eradicate those problems if we can, to overall make it, make for a safer environment.

But short of that, I mean, we do staff it in a demand response, right?

Whatever the demands are, we're going to stand for that.

We can reduce our staff.

Someone off peak weekends.

We're going to be out of town.

No home games for a few weeks.

So we may pull back some staff.

But when we come back in, we're back in into a situation in the fall.

We have home games.

We have to staff up for that.

And what staff looks like we may staff up with 12 guys and a sergeant.

We may have, a booking station to where we can facilitate if there are arrests made, been able to process them on site, and then use, some ancillary, person to take them to the county jail, so that our northgate, officers can stay in the environment and continue to service those those demands, crime reduction in Northgate, is difficult when you, you know, you we can put steps in place if we have trends occurring in an area where certain crimes are occurring, I can I can staff for that and we can figure out a solution operationally.

Northgate is so dynamic that, we, we try to police it consistent so that we know what to expect.

So the customers, the the guest in Northgate know what to expect.

But, as far as eradicating criminality, eradicating the criminal element, there's not a lot of other prediction factors, that we can really deploy in that environment because it's so dynamic from night to night.

So with the few minutes we have left, let's zoom out just a little bit from from Northgate in, what are some other big challenges for you and for the department in various parts of the city?

We we've had some, pockets of crime that that have coming, you know, into play here recently, in the last few years, some areas that, where there were, some apartment complexes that, led to a little bit more of our criminal activity.

So we had to go in, really, and address those, and, and there's some lingering effects to that as well, where we're having to really monitor and stay on top of that.

And a lot of times, with, with an apartment that kind of starts creating, criminal issues or we have assaults or assaults and those kind of things.

A lot of times it does get back into management of the complex.

What are they, allowing and what are they, permitting to, to be there?

And a lot of times, it may not be their permanent resident who they've leased to.

It's, it's guest of residence or, or people just using that as a place to loiter and and create criminal activity.

So we've had some of those and we, we try and address those, as good as we can because those typically lead to, to a higher victim count.

Any other issues that, are sort of top of mind traffic.

You know, our traffic is is up.

You've seen that if you move around town, I think the, there's been some, some great improvements in some of the roadway, improvements.

2818 Harvey Mitchell Parkway is one that was really, creating some, some really strains and, causing more accidents and things like that.

They've, they've done a good job in that area and that, that's really open that up.

Well, but other areas are still even though they're probably built correctly, there's just a lot of traffic, in our community now.

And, so we have traffic related issues.

We staff a traffic unit, as you're aware.

My traffic guys, are out there.

You know, they'll start in, in their day in the school zones often during school year, and then they're going to hit, crash areas, areas where we're receiving complaints, on on things like speeding and, things like that.

So they're really active to try and, and, you know, slow cars down.

We have a, a younger demographic of drivers as, as a result of the university and kids freshmen coming in with only a couple of years experience, unfamiliar with roadways and things like that.

So that combined with some distracted driving, perhaps, leads to a few issues, a few more crashes and things like that.

So we are on top of that.

Yeah.

How are you doing on, staffing and recruiting?

Man, we're doing good.

I've got two really good recruiters right now Jason Bourne, Meredith Pollard or my recruiters, and, they are on top of it doing a good job.

In our industry, if you hire someone, just off the street, you're going to, you know, put them through training.

It's 11.5 months from the time you hire them until they take their first call for service, police academy, field training and all that goes into that.

So a huge investment, huge investment, huge investment.

Well, if you if you're attrition, you know, because we're going to have retirees or different things when people, you know, leave.

So you're always trying to stay caught up.

But they have us in a really good spot.

As far as the numbers like FTE authorized, we're really close to that number.

But I've got 13 in the in the, police academy.

I've got more in field training.

So those count as vacancies because they're not really servicing calls for service.

They're still in a training environment.

So we're doing good on the number, but it's it's it's really impacting us on our bottom line because they're in training.

So many are in training.

Yeah.

And that's every police department for the most part.

Everybody kind of struggles with that same general, concern.

You want to give a, a quick pitch for, becoming a College Station police officer?

Oh, was that, you know, and I'll expand that to not just police officers.

We have some fantastic, professional staff in our building, that, we have, you know, 171 authorized police officer positions.

And then we have another 75, that are they're not police officers that service, in dispatch or other areas of the building.

And we're always hiring in, in different areas.

We have a position called police assistant, which is a police type position where they don't have to have a badge and a gun, but they can take calls for service.

They can process evidence, they can do things to support the police officers.

And those are really good positions for us as well.

But, yeah, we're we're always looking, love to to hire, you know, local local talent.

And but anybody who has an interest in it, I'd ask them just not to hesitate and reach out and give us a chance to kind of show them around and answer their questions.

It is a it is a great, profession.

It's a great place to serve.

You know, in my opinion, if you're getting into policing today, the biggest thing you should consider is the community that you're serving.

And, College Station is just an outstanding community to serve as a police officer.

They're very supportive.

I don't think the the support came for free.

I think it came on the backs of the hard working men and women before me that we just have to maintain that.

And we try to do that.

And everything we do, we serve with absolute professionalism and excellence.

We may not always get it right, but we're striving for the best.

We're going to get real close.

And that's across the board.

I don't just say that as the chief, my officers, and support staff all believe that.

And they really do that.

And everything that they do that they do.

Well, chief Billy Couch, thank you for being here.

Thanks for joining us.

We really appreciate that.

Absolutely.

Thanks for having me.

It Macey, thanks for being in here for your very first interview.

On this matter.

You did great.

Thank you so much.

She did do great.

Thank you.

Brazos Matters is a production of Aggieland's Public Radio 90.9 KAMU-FM.

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