>>> MARIJUANA LESSONS FROM THE MILE HIGH STATE.

♪♪ >> WELCOME TO COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD.

WITH LEGAL RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA SALES TO START IN OHIO IN A MATTER OF DAYS, COLORADO OFFERS A REALITY CHECK.

COLORADO WAS THE FIRST STATE TO LEGALIZE RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA.

IT DID SO TEN YEARS AGO.

AFTER A ROBUST START, THE STATE'S INDUSTRY HAS COOLED.

AS "POLITICO" REPORTS THIS WEEK, THREE YEARS AGO THE COLORADO LEGAL MARIJUANA MARKET TOPS OUT AT 2.2 BILLION.

SALES HAVE DROPPED 30%.

COLORADO'S TAX RECEIPTS HAVE DROPPED 30%.

THE REASON, THE SATURATED MARKET, COMPETITION FROM UNREGULATED HEMP PRODUCTS, AND COMPETITION FROM OTHER STATES LIKE SOON TO BE OHIO THAT HAVE LEGALIZED IT.

TERRY CASEY, IS THIS JUST A SIGN OF A MATURING MARKET IN COLORADO?

OR IS IT A SIGN FOR CONCERN FOR OHIO?

>> I THINK IT'S YES AND YES.

BECAUSE ALWAYS THE HYPE, LIKE ON GAMBLING, THE PROJECTIONS OF HOW MUCH MONEY COME IN -- I REMEMBER IN COLORADO, THEY WERE SO EXCITED ABOUT ALL THE ADDED REVENUE THEY WERE GOING TO GET.

AND THEN THE REVENUE THEY GOT SHRANK AND IT'S SHRINKING UP MORE.

NO SURPRISE IT'S NOT GOING TO BE AS BIG A THING IN OHIO.

PART OF IT IS WE'VE GOT IT NEXT DOOR IN MICHIGAN, IN ONTARIO, IN SURROUNDING STATES HAVE GOT MEDICAL MARIJUANA.

SO THE BLOOM IS OFF THE PUFF OF SMOKE.

>> ONE DIFFERENCE IS THAT COLORADO, THERE'S NO REAL LIMITS ON WHO GETS A LICENSE, WHO CAN SELL.

VERY FEW LIMITATIONS ON THAT.

OHIO DOES HAVE SOME REGULATIONS, SO THE MARKET IS MORE CONTROLLED.

>> RIGHT.

I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE A MAJOR FACTOR.

I DO THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE, LIKE IN MICHIGAN, ALL THE PEOPLE THAT TRAVEL TO ALL THE DISPENSARIES BETWEEN ANN ARBOR AND TOLEDO OR DETROIT ASK THROWED DOUGH, LOT OF THOSE ARE GOING TO CLOSE.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE DRIVING TO MICHIGAN FOR THAT, AND NOW THEY'LL GET IT CLOSER TO HOME.

>> DO YOU THINK THE OHIO MARKET WILL COME UP TO ANYWHERE CLOSE TO WHAT THEY'RE PROJECTING, SAM?

>> NO.

I DON'T THINK THAT IS TRUE.

BUT THERE IS A BENEFIT TO REGULATING.

MY FRIENDS WHO ARE GOURMETS SAY THE QUALITY IS MUCH BETTER.

AND THEY CAN BE ASSURED THAT IT'S NOT CUT WITH SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO HURT THEM.

SO THEY FEEL MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE DEALING IN THIS MARKET.

I'M WONDERING, THOUGH, CAN THEY DO SOMETHING TO HYPE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE IN THE WAY THEY SELL IT, THE WAY THEY -- DRUG DEALERS ALWAYS HAD NAMES.

MEXICAN MUD.

SOMETHING, SOMETHING, SOMETHING, SOMETHING.

>> THE MEDICAL MARIJUANA PRODUCTS NOW ALL HAVE BRANDS.

>> WELL, SOME OF THE STORES THAT I'VE SEEN IN MICHIGAN AND ALSO IN CANADA, THEY'VE GOT THESE CREATIVE NAMES THAT ARE TRYING TO LURE PEOPLE IN.

AND THEN -- I PREDICT THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT MORE REGULATION TO COME, BECAUSE REMEMBER, WHEN THEY PASSED THIS, THEY SAID THEY WANTED TO BE REGULATED LIKE ALCOHOL.

AND REMEMBER, ALCOHOL IS VERY HIGHLY REGULATED.

THERE'S GOING TO -- >> WILL WE HAVE STATE MINIMUM PRICING FOR MARIJUANA?

>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT MINIMUM PRICING, BUT THERE'S STILL LOTS OF QUESTIONS ON THE POTENCY.

CLEARLY THE MARIJUANA OF 40 YEARS AGO IS A HIGHER POTENCY NOW.

THERE'S STILL THE UNKNOWNS OF THE MARIJUANA CANDY AND THOSE KIND OF ITEMS AND WHETHER PARENTS ARE CAREFUL ENOUGH TO MAKE SURE THEIR KIDS DON'T GET INTO IT.

>> TO THE POINT, ILLEGAL MARKET VERSUS LEGAL MARKET.

THE POTENCY BECOMES A QUESTION AFTER A WHILE.

AND I'M WONDERING IF THAT WILL RAISE ITS UGLY HEAD DOWN THE ROAD, WHERE THE LEGAL STUFF FROM A GOURMET STANDPOINT MAY BE BETTER.

>> REPUBLICANS USUALLY WANT AN -- FREE MARKET.

OHIO HAS THESE LIMITS ON THE NUMBER OF DISPENSARIES AND ALSO PRODUCERS AND TESTERS AND PROCESSORS.

IS THAT A GOOD IDEA?

SHOULD WE JUST HAVE A FREE MARKET HERE IN OHIO, LIKE COLORADO DOES?

>> WELL, EVEN IN COLORADO, THEY RAN INTO PROBLEMS.

WE'LL SEE WHAT STUDIES SEW IN TERMS OF CAR ACCIDENTS AND CAUSES AND WHAT KIND OF -- IF THEY DO BLOOD TESTS WHAT KIND OF LEVELS PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE, THAT KIND OF THING.

DEFINITELY, AGAIN, THEY WANTED THIS PASSED, BE REGULATED LIKE ALCOHOL, SO THEY'LL GET THAT WISH.

THERE'S ALSO GOING TO BE QUESTIONS OF WHETHER THE TAX LEVEL OF ONLY 10%, WHETHER THAT'S HIGH ENOUGH.

>> I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE SOME ACTION IN THE LEGISLATURE AT SOME POINT HAVING TO DO WITH HOME GROW.

THE LAW ALLOWS FOR SIX PLANTS PER ADULT IN A HOUSEHOLD.

AND THE GOVERNOR'S CONCERNED THAT THAT'S WELL BEYOND PERSONAL USE AND THAT THAT COULD CREATE AN EXTRA LITTLE BLACK MARKET.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THEY MOVE ON THAT.

I DO THINK IT'S INTERESTING.

THEY HAD ONE OF THE PROPOSALS WAS TO REQUIRE SOMEBODY WHO'S GOING TO HOME GROW TO SIGN A PLEDGE THAT THEY WON'T BREAK THE LAW.

AND I DON'T KNOW OF ANY OTHER INSTANCES IN WHICH YOU HAVE TO SIGN A PLEDGE PRE-EMPTIVELY TO SAY, OH, YEAH, I WON'T BREAK THE LAW.

>> IF YOU HAVE 12 PLANTS IN YOUR HOUSE, CAN YOU CAN MARIJUANA, CAN YOU FREEZE IT?

I HAVE NO IDEA.

>> YOU CAN FREEZE IT.

>> THERE YOU GO.

PUT IT AWAY FOR THE WINTERTIME.

>> YEAH.

>> WHAT IS THE LATEST?

THEY SAID MID-JUNE.

IT'S MID-JUNE.

DO WE KNOW WHERE WE ARE IN THIS PROCESS?

ANY WORD ON WHEN THINGS ARE COMING OUT?

>> I DON'T HAVE ANY INTEL ON THAT.

>> YEAH, BECAUSE THE APPLICATIONS ARE OUT, RIGHT?

WE'RE JUST WAITING TO GET THEM BACK AND APPROVED, COULD BE ANY DAY.

>> THE SAFE BET IS IT WILL BE THE PLACES THAT ARE DOING THE MEDICAL MARIJUANA ARE GOING TO HAVE IT FIRST.

SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CLAIMED A MEDICAL NEED WILL GO THERE FOR THEIR OTHER NEEDS NOW THAT THEY'RE CURED FROM WHATEVER MEDICAL PROBLEM THEY HAD.

>> THE HEMP PRODUCTS, DELTA 8, COLORADO, THERE'S COMPETITION FROM THAT.

THERE'S NO REAL REGULATIONS ON THAT, NOT ENOUGH, ANYWAY.

IN OHIO THEY'RE TRYING TO TIGHTEN UP AGE LIMITS.

MAYBE YOU CAN'T SELL IT AT IT WAS STATIONS.

>> LIKE ON ALCOHOL, EVERY TWO YEARS, IT SEEMS LIKE THE ALCOHOL INDUSTRY ALWAYS HAS SOME NEW REGULATIONS OR NEW SALES PATTERNS OR OTHER CHANGES.

SO THIS IS GOING TO BE AN ONGOING KIND OF THING, THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE YEAR AFTER YEAR, AT LEAST EVERY TWO OR THREE YEARS, NEW THINGS COMING WE NEED TO REGULATE THIS, WE NEED TO CHANGE THAT.

>> I CAUTION THEM THAT IF YOU OVERREGULATE, THE BLACK MARKET WILL REAPPEAR.

AND IF YOU DO THAT, YOU WON'T HAVE ANY CONTROL ON THIS THING AT ALL.

>> YOU KNOW, TEN YEARS FROM NOW, IF THIS GOES OFF WITHOUT A HITCH, WILL THIS JUST BE JUST ANOTHER THING AS A PART OF LIFE HERE IN OHIO?

PEOPLE WOULDN'T THINK TWICE ABOUT IT, DO YOU THINK?

>> YEAH, SURE.

I MEAN, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE SIMILAR TO HOW IT'S PLAYED OUT IN OTHER STATES.

SIMILAR TO CASINO GAMBLING.

THE WORLD DIDN'T STOP SPINNING.

I DO THINK THE BIG UPSIDE IS GOING TO BE THAT PEOPLE CAN BUY IT AND USE IT AND IT'S GOING TO BE TESTED, AND YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN IT, ESSENTIALLY.

AND I THINK THAT'S THE BIG UPSIDE FOR THE PROGRAM.

>> WE STILL HAVEN'T WORKED OUT ALL THE WORKPLACE RULES.

BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY IF YOU'RE WORKING WITH HEAVY EQUIPMENT, YOU DON'T WANT SOMEBODY WHO'S HIGH ON DRUGS RUN EQUIPMENT, INJURING THEMSELVES, AND SUING.

>> THE SAME AS BEING DRUNK.

YOU WOULDN'T WANT SOMEBODY DRUNK ON A -- >> SOMETIMES THE DRUNK IS MORE OUTWARDLY OBSERVED.

>> I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT, PEOPLE ARE USING MARIJUANA, THEY'VE BEEN USING MARIJUANA FOR YEARS, DECADES.

>> RIGHT.

>> AND SO THAT WHOLE THING ABOUT BEING IMPAIRED AT WORK HAS BEEN AN ISSUE WITH ALCOHOL, MARIJUANA, OTHER DRUGS.

>> OTHER DRUGS, YEAH.

>> WHEN IT'S MORE COMMONLY AVAILABLE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE INCIDENTS.

>> SOMETHING TO WATCH THE RACE FOR U.S. SENATE IN OHIO REMAINS FAIRLY QUIET, AT LEAST PUBLICLY.

THE TV ADS HAVE YET TO OVERWHELM US.

A NEW POLL OUT THIS WEEK HAS GOOD NEWS OF SORTS FOR SHERROD BROWN.

A MARIST POLL OF OHIO REGISTERED VOTERS SHOWS BROWN WITH A FIVE-POINT LEAD, ANY% TO 45%.

THE POLL INCLUDES VOTERS WHO ARE STILL UNDECIDED BUT LEANING TOWARD ONE CANDIDATE OR THE OTHER.

THAT AFFECTS THE RESULTS, OF COURSE.

THE POLL SHOWS BROWN HAS STRONGER SUPPORT THAN MARINO AMONG INDEPENDENTS.

THIS WEEK, BROWN TRIED TO SHOW HIS INDEPENDENCE FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN BY SAYING HE SUPPORTS A MOVE TO BLOCK A BIDEN ADMINISTRATION PLAN TO TOUGHEN EMISSIONS FROM POWER PLANTS.

A THREE-TERM INCUMBENT IS AHEAD IN THIS POLL BUT ONLY AHEAD BY 5 POINTS.

HALF EMPTY OR HALF FULL, THE GLASS?

>> HALFWAY THERE.

THAT'S MY RESPONSE TO IT.

I THINK -- THIS IS A RUBY RED STATE.

FOR HIM TO HAVE THAT TYPE OF LEAD AT THIS EARLY STAGE IS INTERESTING.

BUT IT'S NOT OVER BY A LONG SHOT.

I THINK, JUST A PERSONAL OBSERVATION, I THINK IN THE LONG-TERM, HE'LL WIN.

I LIKE HIS MARKETING STUFF.

>> SHERROD BROWN?

>> YEAH, SHERROD BROWN, THAT HE'S PUTTING OUT.

THE CADENCE AT WHICH HE'S PUTTING IT OUT GETS YOUR ATTENTION AND DRIVES YOU.

SHERROD AND HIS TEAM HAS ALWAYS BEEN SMART.

NOW, THE RUBY RED STATE WILL AFFECT HIM.

I DON'T EXPECT HIS LAST WIN, I THINK 7 POINTS -- A WIN IS A WIN IS A WIN.

IF IT'S 3 TO 5, IT'S STILL A WIN.

AND I EXPECT IT TO BE THAT CLOSE.

>> TERRY, THE INDEPENDENT NUMBER WAS PRETTY SHARP.

16 POINTS.

AGAIN, INCLUDES LEANERS.

TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT.

BROWN LEADS MARINO AMONG INDEPENDENTS.

>> LOOKING AT THE POLL AND LIKELY VOTERS, A 4-POINT MARGIN.

CONSIDER SHERROD BROWN HAS BEEN ON TV SPENDING MILLIONS AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AGAINST SOMEBODY WHO'S BASICALLY UNKNOWN, AND THEN YOU LOOK BACK SIX YEARS AGO AGAINST JIM RENACCI, SHERROD WAS UP BY 18 POINTS.

THE MARGIN'S CHANGED.

THE STATE HAS CHANGED.

YOU CAN HARDLY COAST ON THAT KIND OF LEAD WHEN YOU'VE SPENT THAT MUCH MONEY.

>> POLLS AT THIS POINT IN RACES JUST GIVE US SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT ON TV SHOWS LIKE THIS.

>> SNAPSHOTS.

>> IT'S VERY EARLY.

THE MARGIN OF ERROR ON THAT IS 3.6%.

AND IT'S REGISTERED VOTERS, NOT LIKELY VOTERS.

SO YOU KNOW, TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT.

>> INCLUDING LEANERS, YOU DON'T SEE THAT VERY OFTEN.

WHAT DOES THAT DO TO A POLL?

IF YOU'RE NOT DECIDED YOU MIGHT NOT EVEN VOTE, RIGHT?

>> I WAS A LEANER, EVERYBODY LEANS.

TODAY I'M WITH THIS GUY.

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DEFINE THAT.

>> THE REAL QUESTION ON THAT POLL, WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE OTHER QUESTIONS ON LIKELIHOOD TO VOTE, THE DEMOCRATS AND THEIR COALITION AS HAPPENED IN 2022 IS A MAJOR PROBLEM.

THOSE THAT ARE YOUNGER, IN CITIES, OR MINORITY VOTERS, THEIR INTENSITY OF BEING INTERESTED IN VOTING IS NOT AS HIGH.

AND HOW DOES SHERROD MOTIVATE THEM?

IF YOU REMEMBER TWO YEARS AGO, TIM RYAN, U.S.

SENATOR TIM RYAN, WHO DIDN'T MAKE IT THERE, WAS TRYING TO BE VERY TRUMP-LIKE, AS BROWN IS DOING.

IT DIDN'T WORK OUT FOR HIM, BECAUSE HOW DO YOU FIRE UP THE BASE IF THEY'RE NOT EXCITED?

>> BROWN HAS THE BENEFIT OF HAVING BEEN THERE FOR THREE TERMS.

TIM RYAN DID NOT.

>> RIGHT.

MY RESPONSE TO THAT IS, I DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE A PROBLEM, GETTING PEOPLE OUT TO VOTE.

THERE'S THIS THING CALLED ROE.

IT'S CALLED REGULATING WOMEN'S BODIES.

I THINK THE ONLY THING THAT WILL CHANGE THE OUTCOME OF THIS YEAR'S ELECTION IS TO GET RID OF THE 19th AMENDMENT.

BECAUSE I THINK WOMEN'S RESPONSE TO THE EXAMPLES THAT HAVE COME UP THUS FAR SAYING THEY'RE GOING TO TURN OUT.

>> LAURA, SHERROD BROWN SOUNDED A BIT LIKE A REPUBLICAN SAYING HE WAS GOING TO OPPOSE THIS EMISSIONS PLANT REGULATIONS, SAYING REGULATIONS WOULD HURT WORLD ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

THE RULES ARE UNPROVEN AND IT WILL COST UNION JOBS AND RAISE ENERGY COSTS FOR OHIOANS.

THOSE ARE ALL SORT OF NORMAL TALKING POINTS YOU HEAR FROM REPUBLICANS WHO DON'T WANT ENERGY REGULATION?

>> SURE.

AND YOU KNOW, I THINK SHERROD BROWN IS, YOU KNOW -- HIS SIGNATURE IS THE WORKER.

AND THE DIGNITY OF WORK.

ANYTHING HE CAN DO TO PROTECT JOBS IS PROBABLY FIRST AND FOREMOST ON HIS AGENDA.

>> THIS DOES NOT HELP HIS CASE WITH ENVIRONMENTAL FOLKS ON THE LEFT WHO SAY WE NEED TO CONTROL COAL EMISSIONS IN PARTICULAR TO STOP CLIMATE CHANGE OR SLOW CLIMATE CHANGE AND REDUCE POLLUTION IN THESE AREAS.

>> IT GETS BACK TO THE TIM RYAN QUESTION AGAIN.

IF YOU TRY AND TWIST YOURSELF LIKE A PRETZEL, YOU COULD TURN OFF ELEMENTS OF YOUR BASE.

THEN THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ON THE OTHER SIDE, ARE THEY REALLY GOING TO BELIEVE YOU, THAT YOU'RE DIFFERENT THAN HOW YOU VOTED IN THE 5 1/2 YEARS PRIOR TO WHEN YOU SWITCH AND TURN?

>> THE SAME POLL HAD DONALD TRUMP UP BY I THINK 7 POINTS OVER JOE BIDEN.

AGAIN, WITH LEANERS.

IT ALSO INDICATES THERE'S FOLKS WHO ARE GOING TO VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP AND MAYBE ARE LEANING TOWARD SHERROD BROWN?

>> I THINK SHERROD CREATES AN IMAGE THAT'S VERY INTERESTING.

HIS FOLKY APPROACH.

HIS CLOSENESS TO POLICE OFFICERS, THE WORKING MAN.

I THINK THE IMAGE AND THE PERSONA THAT HE CREATES ALLOWS HIM TO SURVIVE.

NOW, I'M GOING TO TELL YOU THIS.

MY BELIEF IS, IF HE SURVIVES THIS YEAR AND WINS BY MORE THAN 5 POINTS, I THINK THAT'S A STRONG INDICATOR OF BEGINNING TO MOVE AWAY FROM A STAUNCHLY RUBY RED STATE.

IF HE CAN WIN BY 5 POINTS, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO START SEEING A MOVE.

ONE OF THE THINGS TERRY AND I HAVE ALWAYS DISAGREED ON IS THE OVERPERFORMANCE OF CERTAIN REPUBLICAN COUNTIES.

THAT IS NOT A SUSTAINABLE STRATEGY.

80, 90% TURNOUT.

>> SPEAKING OF THAT QUICKLY, TERRY, THE 6th DISTRICT HAD ITS SPECIAL ELECTION.

THE REPUBLICAN WON BY 10 POINTS.

IN A DISTRICT THAT TRUMP WON BY 20.

DEMOCRATS ARE TAKING A LITTLE BIT OF SOLACE FROM THAT.

IS THAT A SIGN OF TROUBLE FOR DONALD TRUMP IN OHIO?

>> IT'S A SIGN IF YOU'RE TRYING TO SPIN THAT INTO SOMETHING THAT'S GOOD.

THE REALITY, THIS WAS MID-JUNE, NOBODY EVEN KNEW THERE WAS AN ELECTION GOING ON.

I DON'T THINK THERE WAS MUCH MEDIA PLAY BECAUSE IT'S A DISTRICT THAT'S SPRAWLED FROM YOUNGSTOWN TO WEST VIRGINIA.

SO IT WASN'T A BIG MEDIA CAMPAIGN, THERE WASN'T A LOT OF MONEY SPENT.

I HOPE THE DEMOCRATS PIN ALL THEIR HOPES ON THAT FANTASY.

>> 15% TURNOUT IN THAT ELECTION.

>>> LAWMAKERS ARE MOVING CLOSER TO HAND OUT MONEY TO PAY FOR PROJECTS AROUND THE STATE.

FIRST THERE IS THE $700 MILLION SO-CALLED SUPER DUPER FUND.

THE FUND IS MADE UP OF ONE-TIME SURPLUS MONEY.

COLUMBUS STATE STANDED TO GET $20 MILLION FOR A TECHNOLOGY CENTER.

THE PROPOSED NEW COLUMBUS SYMPHONY HALL WOULD GET $5 MILLION.

THERE ARE SCORES OF OTHER PROJECTS, LARGE AND SMALL, ALL AROUND THE STATE.

AND THIS FUND DOES NOT INCLUDE THE BIANNUAL CAPITAL FUNDS BUDGET WHICH SENDS MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO LOCAL PROJECTS AROUND THE STATE.

TO THE SUPER DUPER FUND, LAURA, REMIND US WHERE THIS MONEY'S COMING FROM?

>> SO, WHAT HAPPENED IS WHEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SENT SO MUCH STIMULUS MONEY INTO OHIO DURING COVID, THAT CAUSED THE TAX REVENUES TO SWELL.

AND SO OHIO GRABBED ABOUT $700 MILLION OF THAT AND PUT IT ASIDE, AND THEY CALL IT -- THERE'S A COUPLE OF LAWMAKERS THAT CALL IT THE SUPER DUPER FUND, BUT IT'S OFFICIALLY CALLED SOMETHING LIKE THE ONE-TIME STRATEGIC INVESTMENT FUND.

I THINK SUPER DUPER IS WAY CATCHIER.

>> YEAH.

>> SO -- YEAH, SO IT WAS A -- LIKE JUST A SWELL OF THAT ECONOMIC ACTIVITY.

AND IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE THEY SAY, LET'S SET ASIDE $700 MILLION, LET'S SAVE IT FOR TRANSFORMATIVE PROJECTS.

AND SO THERE'S LIKE $83 MILLION EARMARKED FOR EACH OF THE THREE BIGGEST COUNTIES, HAMILTON, CUYAHOGA, FRANKLIN.

ALMOST LIKE THEY WERE MAKING SURE EACH CHILD GOT THE SAME AMOUNT SPENT DURING CHRISTMAS.

AND THERE'S SOME BIG ONES LIKE YOU MENTIONED FOR FRANKLIN COUNTY.

HAMILTON COUNTY CONVENTION CENTER'S GOT THE BIGGEST TICKET ITEM, $46 MILLION.

THEN THE SMALLEST ONE I THINK IS $4,000 FOR PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT AT ST. MARY'S SCHOOL.

I DON'T KNOW HOW TRANSFORMATIVE THAT'S GOING TO BE, BUT I HOPE THOSE KIDS ENJOY THE PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT.

>> GOOD USE OF STATE MONEY?

THE BEST WAY TO HAND IT OUT TO PROJECTS?

>> CHRISTMAS, I THOUGHT IT WAS JUNE.

I LOOKED THROUGH THE 44 PAGES AND TWO OF THE GRANTS, ONE FOR PICKLEBALL COURTS, THE OTHER FOR A FIRE TRAINING TOWER IN MY HOMETOWN.

EVERY TIME YOU SPEND MONEY, IT DOES SOMETHING GOOD.

WHEN YOU ALSO LOOK AT A LOT OF MONEY PUT IN FOR ROOF REPAIRS OF VFW HALLS ALL OVER THE STATE, FIXING A PAR GARAGE IN DOWNTOWN AKRON -- THE REAL QUESTION, I MEAN, THEY'RE SPENDING THIS MONEY, BUT THIS IS THE SMARTEST AND BEST USE OF IT IS THE QUESTION.

>> IT'S A BIGGER THAN USUAL CHRISTMAS TREE.

>> YES.

>> I'M THE LIBERAL CYNIC HERE.

YOU'RE GOING TO BE PASSING THESE BAUBLES OUT ALL OVER THE STATE TO VARIOUS PEOPLE, YOU SHOULD HAVE HAD THE REASONABLE NUMBER OF CORPORATE COMMUNITIES CONTRIBUTING TO THE TAX BASE.

YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN USING IT -- I WAS ON THIS PROGRAM TWO WEEKS AGO, ALL THE NORTHERN SUBURBS, SCHOOL LEVIES FAIL.

WHY?

BECAUSE THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY THOUGHT IT WAS TOO MUCH.

I WONDER IF THE STATE GAVE THEM MORE MONEY, WOULD THEY BE IN THAT SITUATION?

WE CAN PASS OUT ALL THESE BAUBLES THAT WE WANT.

IT DOES NOT RIGHT SIZE THE PROBLEM OF RESOURCES TO COMMUNITIES, GOVERNMENTS, SCHOOLS, EDUCATION, PRIMARY, SECONDARY.

THAT'S NOT BEING DONE NOW.

>> WE HAVE THE CAPITAL BUDGET, WHICH IS COMING OUT I BELIEVE NEXT WEEK, WHICH DOES A LOT OF THE SAME THING.

WHY NOT TAKE THIS $700 MILLION AND TARGET IT TO TRANSPORTATION, TO EDUCATION, TO PUBLIC HEALTH, TO SOMETHING MORE SPECIFIC?

>> MIKE, YOU'RE WAY TOO LOGICAL.

>> I KNOW.

>> IN TERMS OF THINGS -- WE COULD DO -- RETURN TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, REDUCE THE FEDERAL DEBT.

WE KNOW POLITICIANS ON BOTH SIDES LOVE TO SPEND MONEY.

ONE OF THE BIG ONES THAT CAUGHT MY EYE IS ACROSS FROM KING'S ISLAND, $27 MILLION ON EXPANDING THE TENNIS CENTER THERE THAT MIGHT HAVE A TOURNAMENT FOR A FEW DAYS EACH YEAR.

AND SO, I MEAN, ALL THESE THINGS ARE NICE, AND AGAIN, PEOPLE LIKE TO BE AT THE GROUNDBREAKINGS AND DEDICATIONS.

BUT A LOT OF THIS IN THE WHOLE $4.5 BILLION, A LOT OF IT'S GOING TO BE ISSUED BONDS THAT HAVE TO BE PAID OUT IN FUTURE YEARS BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

SO MAYBE WE NOT SPEND AS MUCH ON THIS AND SAVE IT FOR WHEN WE REALLY NEED LAURA, THIS COMES AS STATE TAX REVENUES HAVE DIPPED A LITTLE BIT IN RECENT MONTHS.

ANY REGRETS NOT PUTTING SOME OF THIS MONEY INTO THE RAINY DAY FUND?

WHICH IS PRETTY FULL AS IT STANDS ANYWAY.

>> NO, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY REGRETS, THEY'RE GOING TO VOTE ON THIS.

>> SPREAD IT AROUND.

>> RIGHT.

LIKE YOU SAID, THEY'RE ALSO GOING TO COUPLE THIS WITH THE CAPITAL BUDGET.

USUALLY YOU GET THE CAPITAL BUDGET BY MARCH 31st BUT THE HOUSE AND SENATE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO COME TO AGREEMENT SO THE END OF JUNE.

>> THEY ARE IN AGREEMENT ON THIS PRETTY MUCH RIGHT NOW.

>> THE GOOD NEWS, BIPARTISAN COORDINATION.

I THINK EVERY ONE OF THE 132 DISTRICTS OF EVERY LEGISLATOR GETS SOME BITE OF PEANUT BUTTER OR, IN SOME CASES, IT'S NICER THINGS THAN PEANUT BUTTER, SPREAD AROUND.

>>> CONVENTIONAL WISDOM FOR DRIVERS SAYS, DON'T SPEED AT THE END OF THE MONTH BECAUSE STATE TROOPERS AND POLICE OFFICERS HAVE TO MEET THEIR TICKET QUOTAS.

POLICE AGENCIES ARE RELUCTANT TO SAY QUOTAS EXIST, CALLING THEM PERFORMANCE INCENTIVES OR PRODUCTIVITY INDICATORS.

WHATEVER THE CASE, A PAIR OF LAWMAKERS HAS PROPOSED A BILL TO MAKE SUCH QUOTAS ILLEGAL.

THE "DISPATCH" REPORTS THIS WEEK THE BILL WOULD ALSO ESTABLISH A SYSTEM WHERE OFFICERS COULD BLOW THE WHISTLE ON THEIR COLLEAGUES WHO USE QUOTAS.

LAUREN BISCHOFF, YOU WROTE THIS STORY.

WHAT'S THE MOTIVATION BEHIND THIS LAW, BILL?

>> WELL, IT'S SPONSORED -- ONE OF THE COSPONSORS IS KEVIN MILLER, FORMER STATE TROOPER.

HE SAID IN TESTIMONY ON THE BILL AND OTHERS, LIKE THE FOP OHIO, ALSO IN FAVOR OF IT -- HE SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, HAVING THESE QUOTAS TAKES AWAY THE PROFESSIONAL DISCRETION THAT AN OFFICER MIGHT HAVE AND PUTS PRESSURE ON THEM AND STRESSES THE PUBLIC.

THEY'RE FEELING LIKE, YOU'RE JUST NABBING ME ONLY BECAUSE YOU HAVE A TICKET QUOTA.

>> OFFICERS PUSHING BACK AGAINST THEIR SUPERIORS WHO MIGHT BE PUTTING PRESSURE ON THEM TO RAISE MONEY?

>> SURE.

I THINK THE COPS DON'T LIKE THE TICKET QUOTAS.

DRIVERS DON'T LIKE TICKETS.

MAYBE POLICE MANAGERS SEE THEM AS A LEGITIMATE PERFORMANCE MEASURE FOR THEIR OFFICERS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY THERE ARE A LOT OF SMALL LITTLE BURGS THAT ARE KNOWN AS SPEED TRAPS.

THEY'RE THERE WRITING TICKETS TO RAISE MONEY FOR THE VILLAGE COFFERS.

>> TERRY, ARE POLICE AGENCIES AND GOVERNMENT AGENCIES TOO RELIANT ON THE REVENUE THESE TICKETS GENERATE, THESE FINES GENERATE?

>> SOME OF THEM ARE.

WE HAD A PROBLEM A DECADE OR SO BACK WITH NEW ROME WHERE THEY WERE BASICALLY RUNNING A FACTORY FOR REVENUE FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

AND I THINK IT'S GOOD THAT LEGISLATORS ARE ON TOP OF THIS KIND OF THING.

ALSO, REMEMBER, OHIO WAS ONE OF THE LEADERS NATIONALLY IN CURBING SOME OF THE RED LIGHT CAMERA CASH MACHINES, AND NATIONALLY THERE'S SOME CITIES THAT ARE TRYING TO DO STOP SIGN CAMERAS, THAT IF YOU DON'T STOP ENOUGH IN FRONT OF THE LINE AT THE STOP SIGN, THEY SEND YOU A TICKET.

SO IT'S GOOD THAT THERE'S A BALANCE AND WE'VE GOT LEGISLATORS WHO ARE HEARING PEOPLE CONCERNED ABOUT IMPROPER ENFORCEMENT.

>> THIS GOES BACK TO WHAT WE'VE HEARD DURING MANY PROTESTS OVER THE PAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS OF HOW THE GOVERNMENT IS USING FINES TO RAISE MONEY AND OFTENTIMES THESE FINES FALL ON PEOPLE OF COLOR.

>> YES.

>> LOWER-INCOME COMMUNITIES.

THIS IS PART OF THE PROBLEM HERE?

>> THE TRAPS ARE IN THEIR COMMUNITIES.

I'M GOING TO BE A LIBERAL CYNIC AGAIN.

DON'T WE HAVE OTHER THINGS WE NEED TO BE WORKING ON?

BESIDES STUFF LIKE THIS?

I MEAN, QUOTAS ARE GOING TO OCCUR WHETHER IT'S THE LAST QUARTER OR FIRST QUARTER.

THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME MEASURE OF HOW TICKET PRODUCTION OCCURS.

WHY ARE WE SPENDING THIS TIME ON THIS?

>> WHY ARE LAWMAKERS SPENDING THE TIME?

>> YES.

>> THEY WOULD ARGUE THAT IT WOULD FREE UP POLICE OFFICERS TO SPEND TIME ON SOLVING OTHER CRIMES RATHER THAN WRITING TICKETS.

>> NEW ROME AND OTHER COMMUNITIES ARE GOING TO GET THEIR MONEY, WHETHER YOU SEE IT UP FRONT, IT'S STILL GOING TO OCCUR.

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO STOP IT.

>> LAURA, HOW DO YOU PROVE WHAT IS A QUOTA AND WHAT IS JUST -- >> A PERFORMANCE MEASURE?

>> A PERFORMANCE MEASURE?

SHOULD THE COPS JUST TAKE A LONG COFFEE BREAK?

>> I GUESS WHEN THE OFFICER'S UPSET AND FEELING THAT THEY'RE PRESSURED TO WRITE THESE TICKETS, THEN THEY CALL THAT ANONYMOUS WHISTLE-BLOWER COMPLAINT SYSTEM THAT IS SET UP THROUGH THIS BILL.

IT'S EARLY IN THE BILL.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S HAD A COUPLE OF HEARINGS.

IT'S IN THE HOUSE SIDE.

STILL HAS TO MAKE IT THROUGH A BUNCH OF HOOPS.

>> TO BRING IT OUT INTO THE OPEN THAT QUOTAS EXIST?

IT'S ALWAYS BEEN KIND OF A MYSTERY.

>> THE GOOD NEWS IS IT'S ONLY A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF COMMUNITIES THAT OPERATE THIS WAY.

BUT STILL, IT'S NOT RIGHT TO HAVE A FEW COMMUNITIES ABUSING THE SYSTEM AND DAMAGING PEOPLE'S TRUST.

>> I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S TRUE.

I TALKED TO MIKE WINEN FROM FOP OHIO.

HE SAID THE QUOTA SYSTEMS, PERFORMANCE MEASURES, THEY'RE FAIRLY PREVALENT.

IT'S NOT JUST A COUPLE OF HANDFUL PLACES.

>> THE LEGISLATURE IS LISTENING.

MAYBE THEY'LL DO SOMETHING.

>> WHAT'S A RED LIGHT TICKET?

>> THOSE ARE THOSE CAMERAS THAT OBVIOUSLY -- >> UH-HUH, ALL IN THE BIG CITIES.

>> THEY WERE USING THEM AS A CASH MACHINE, THEN THERE WERE LOBBYISTS WHO GOT CERTAIN VENDORS -- >> I'M A LOGIC CYNIC.

>> I'M A CONSERVATIVE CYNIC.

>> WITHOUT THE REVENUE OF THESE TICKETS, THE MONEY HAS TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE, RIGHT?

THE GOVERNMENT AGENCIES ARE GOING TO NEED TO GET SOME EXTRA HELP FROM TAXPAYERS IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE TICKET REVENUE, RIGHT?

>> MAYBE THEY NEED TO LOOK AT HOW THEY'RE SPENDING THE MONEY AND PERFORM BETTER.

>> MIKE, THERE'S PLENTY OF MONEY.

CORPORATIONS GOT A LOW TAX RATE BASED ON THE TYPE OF MONEY THAT THEY RAISE.

JUST GIVE ME YOUR PROPORTIONAL SHARE.

THAT'S ALL I ASK FOR.

>>> ALL RIGHT, OUR FINAL "OFF THE RECORD" PARTING SHOTS.

LET'S START WITH OUR LIBERAL CYNIC, SAM GRESHAM.

>> I THINK WE'RE COMING UP, AND THIS IS FOR MY ORGANIZATIONS -- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE FOR THE INDEPENDENT COMMISSION TO DRAW OUR LINES IN DISTRICTS COMING UP.

>> DEADLINE FOR SIGNATURES IS COMING UP IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS FOR THE REDISTRICTING MEASURE.

>> I WANT TO GIVE A SHOUT-OUT TO SPOUSES OF BOTH PEOPLE IN POLITICS, AS WELL AS THE MEDIA, BECAUSE THOSE OF US DOING THESE THINGS, WE SOMETIMES PUT OUR SPOUSES THROUGH A LOT.

MONDAY, I'VE GOT MY 52nd WEDDING ANNIVERSARY COMING UP.

I APPRECIATE THE PATIENCE OF SPOUSES WHO DEAL WITH THE CRAZINESS OF THE WORLDS WE DEAL IN.

>> CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU AND PENNY.

>> THANK YOU.

>> LAURA?

>> THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I WAS ON THE SHOW SINCE WE'VE PUBLISHED OUR YEAR-LONG INVESTIGATION OF DEATH IN CUSTODY IN JAILS.

WE FOUND ABUSIVE CONDITIONS, MEDICAL NEGLECT, AND TRAGEDIES ACROSS OHIO.

WE PUT IT ON THE WEBSITE.

THERE'S NO PAY WALL SO CHECK IT OUT.

>>> THIS WEEK I WAS IN WASHINGTON MAKING THE CASE FOR SUPPORT OF PUBLIC MEDIA TO LOCAL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS.

CONGRESSMAN TROY BALDERSON.

HE HAD TWO DOGS THAT BELONG TO STAFF.

THEY BROUGHT A SMILE TO EVERYONE'S FACE.

FRIENDLY, GOOD DOGS.

MY SUGGESTION THAT IS EVERY CONGRESSIONAL OFFICE SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST ONE DOG.

IT MIGHT HELP EASE THE PARTISAN TENSION ON CAPITOL HILL.

THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CHECK US OUT ONLINE.

WE'LL PUT LAURA'S STORY ON OUR FACEBOOK PAGE.

WATCH US ANY TIME AT OUR WEBSITE WOSU.ORG/COTR.

ALSO ON THE PBS VIDEO APP AND YOUTUBE.

FOR OUR CREW AND PANEL, I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.