- [Narrator] Production and distribution of City Club Forums on Idea Stream Public Media are made possible by PNC and the United Black Fund of Greater Cleveland Incorporated.

(upbeat music) (bell rings) (background chatter) - Hello everyone.

Hello and welcome to the City Club of Cleveland, where we here are devoted to conversations of consequence that help democracy thrive.

It is Friday, October 7th.

I am Dr. Ken Schneck, I'm a professor of education at Baldwin Wallace University.

I'm editor at the Buckeye Flame, Ohio's only statewide LGBTQ news platform, and I am the moderator of today's forum, Coming Out and Coming of Age.

This is a forum that is coming straight to you from the City Club's Member Education Committee that centers young LGBTQ+ voices in advance of National Coming Out Day, which is this upcoming Tuesday.

So, we all know that growing up can be just hard enough.

For LGBTQ youth, coming out adds to the pressures and challenges during teen years and as they come of age.

Studies have shown that LGBTQ+ youth are more than four times as likely to attempt suicide than their peers.

But when those kids are given access to LGBTQ affirming spaces, they reported lower rates of suicide attempts, according to the Trevor Project.

And according to Glisten, when they can identify, when these youth can identify LGBTQ+ supportive teachers or staff, or in schools that have LGBTQ+ affirming policies, they are less likely to encounter bullying and they are more likely to actually come to school.

Yet American public schools, as we all have heard, have become lightning rods in the culture wars, and incubators for public policy targeting controversial topics, which we will discuss.

This includes discussions of sexual orientation, gender identity, and LGBTQ+ related topics in classrooms.

Just seven years after gay marriage was legalized in the United States, today's youth and young adults are facing a changing climate in their schools and communities.

It begs us to ask, are the queer kids all right?

And what can be done to ensure that all students are provided a safe and inclusive classroom?

Joining me, and I'm honored to be on the stage with these incredible folks joining me, Alex Carbone, a senior at Hudson High School, Emma Curd, a senior at Hoover High School, Dan Rice, a trans youth ambassador for the Alabama chapter of the Human Rights Campaign.

And lest you be questioning, are we just importing Alabama people here?

(laughter) Dan is also an undergraduate student at Baldwin Wallace University, where he is in the prestigious musical theater program.

And that got special, (all laughing) shout out.

And Amanda Erickson, the Director of Education and Outreach at Kaleidoscope Youth Center.

(audience cheers) Yes, I love that.

(audience applauds) If you have a question for our panelists, you can text it to area code 330-541-5794.

That's 330-541-5794.

You can also tweet your question to @thecityclub, and City Club staff will try to work it into the second half of the program.

And before we get started, we wanna let the audience and listeners know that we will be talking about some very heavy topics with some incredible young voices.

If you or anyone you know has thoughts of self-harm, you can text the word start, the word start to 678-678, and that will start a confidential conversation with a trained counselor through the Trevor Project.

Members and friends of the City Club of Cleveland, please join me one more time in welcoming our esteemed panelists.

(audience applauds) So we wanna start, we like giving our pronouns and any words that you particularly own in being a member of the LGBTQ+ community.

Start with you, Alex.

- So, hi, my name's Alex.

I use they/them pronouns.

It's kind of changed a lot over the years, (laugh) as it does for most queer people.

I kind of identify as queer, and kind of more recently, within the past year, have kind of adopted the gender fluid term.

I say non-binary 'cause it's easier a lotta the time.

But yeah, gender fluid, I think, is the, I guess, main way I identify.

- Awesome, thank you.

Emma?

- I'm Emma Curd.

I use she/her pronouns, and I'm kind of still just figuring it out right now.

- Love it.

- I'm Dan Rice, I use he/they pronouns.

I am a trans man and non-binary person, and I'm also queer.

- Awesome, thank you.

And Amanda?

- Sure.

I'm Amanda Erickson.

My pronouns are she/her/hers.

Lesbian and gay woman and queer all work for me.

- And will you also do the one sentence about Kaleidoscope?

- Absolutely.

So I'm the director of Education and Outreach at Kaleidoscope Youth Center, which is Ohio's largest and longest serving organization that's solely dedicated to serving and supporting LGBTQ youth.

We're a statewide organization with our brick and mortar in downtown Columbus.

- Awesome, thank you.

And I'm Ken Schneck, he/him.

I am a gay Jew from New Jersey.

(all laugh) (audience applauds) I got applause, I love that.

So, I actually wanna flip the script and start with where we often end and don't have a lot of time for.

Usually right when we're running out of time, we get to that question of, and what advice do you have?

And then there's no time left.

And so I kind of wanna start there and talk about what lessons have you already learned that have been really helpful to you in navigating education as an LGBTQ youth?

Let's start with you, Alex.

- I think the most important thing is, number one is safety, and number two is comfortability.

So I think, unfortunately there are situations where you do have to understand it might not be safe to be as open as you'd like to be, which is obviously what we're trying to change.

But also, kind of self safety.

Are you gonna feel safe not sharing who you are?

Are you gonna feel safe maybe putting on a different face?

So it's kind of a lot to weigh, but also comfortability.

So I think the biggest kind of lesson I've learned is be thoughtful about who you tell, but also be unafraid to be you.

And I think it is very, very scary.

But as I've kind of faced some of the challenges here and there, I feel now way more comfortable than I ever did before in sharing who I am, because I do know that there are people that support me.

- I love that, thank you.

Emma.

- Kind of going off what Alex said, obviously safety is a big factor but the biggest advice I would have is to just be yourself, and your friends and your family will love you for who you are.

And if they don't, then you find your chosen family and you find better friends, I guess.

- The advice that I would have for my little self would be you don't have to prove anything to anyone.

'Cause growing up in Alabama, oftentimes, literally when I came out, I wrote up this huge, 'cause again, Alabama in the Bible Belt, I wrote up this basically huge, like, dissertation on why, in the Bible, it's okay to be gay.

It's okay to be a trans person according to the Bible, which I don't subscribe to anymore.

But (chuckle) I memorized all of these facts, and I just could regurgitate statistic after statistic.

And that was honestly incredibly harmful for me to have to continually be on the defensive, to continually having to prove myself to everyone around me.

And my advice for a little me would be you don't have to do that.

- Nice.

Love that.

All right, Amanda.

We have the normal difficulties in navigating high school, and then we have the added layer of navigating high school with an LGBTQ identity.

And then here in Ohio, we added a whole slate of legislation that has made this even more difficult.

Now we could spend easily, and we've done this together, spent hours talking about these different bills.

But can we jump up to the treetops and just cover some of the essentials of the bills that are running through the Ohio State legislature that are trying to deny the very existence of people on this stage?

- Absolutely.

So, a few bills that come to mind, we'll start with HB 616, which is a curriculum ban that seems to be sort of modeled off of the Don't Say Gay Bill that we saw outta Florida a couple months ago.

The difference with Ohio's is it's really talking about banning divisive concepts from the classroom.

Yet within the bill, they never define what divisive actually is.

And they do refer to LGBTQ identities, they do refer to anything that could be considered inherently racist, which they also don't really define for us.

So it's really kind of this bill that's about controlling what we're teaching students in our classrooms to fit a very, very specific mold of what a minority of folks would want to be taught in public schools.

So that's kind of a big one that folks have been talking about that's really relevant to the schools.

When we're also talking about trans youth specifically, we have HB 454, which would be a ban on gender affirming healthcare.

That's physical healthcare and mental healthcare, essentially denying any trans youth under the age of 18 from accessing mental health services or other healthcare services that help them become their full authentic selves in the way that they want to be.

Right now in Ohio, youth can access those services with their parents' permission.

There are mental health services that all youth can access, to a certain extent, with confidentiality.

And this 454 would kind of take all of that away.

And a lot of our young people would just have to wait to turn 18 to be who they want to be, which really shouldn't be happening.

'cause a lot of our youth know who they are when they are younger teenagers.

And that's fine, we should be encouraging them to live in their truth.

The most recent bill that we saw that's affecting all of us here today is, I think, 722.

- 722.

- 722 is our Parents' Rights Bill.

So this one is similar to 616, where it's kind of a minority of folks who's really trying to control what's happening in our schools and in our classrooms.

But essentially it boils down to parents being able to control what kind of topics are quote unquote sexually explicit, and then they're able to opt their children out of those classes.

So, this isn't entirely different from a lot of district policy around things like sex education and things of that nature, but it's vague enough that it could also be used to remove children when we're talking about kids that have two moms, or other really age appropriate ways to include LGBTQ+ identities into the classroom.

And really going in and trying to make it so that parents are the ultimate say over what's happening in the classroom.

And I got my early childhood degree, I spent four years in college to learn how to be an elementary teacher.

And I feel like for those of us that have that kind of education, and for teachers that went on to get master's degrees and PhDs in their fields, they are the experts, and we should be trusting those folks to be determining what our curriculum looks like, what's happening in our classrooms, and not necessarily parents.

(audience applauds) - And I should add that, as a professor of education who tries to work with future teachers, there is language in both HB 722 and in HB 454 that would force all teachers and school staff to out LGBTQ students to their parents.

I can say that, as a closeted teen in New Jersey, my awareness of New Jersey public policy was zero.

Talk to me a little bit about, for our youth colleagues on the stage, do you have an awareness of what's going on in the Ohio legislature?

Is it coming up in your lived existence?

- I feel like I've naturally heard some of it kind of here and there, and I got a rundown of it (chuckle) on the way here.

And it was a bit like, I don't think I realized it was this bad.

I think it was just kind of, I was speechless, (laugh) kind of like I am now.

I mean, I know people have their reasons, but it's incredible how adamant people are against people being themselves.

I'm a senior in high school, so in terms of the high school experience, I've kind of been through the whole thing, but whatever goes on from here, I mean, I'm gonna be in college, so what I'm most concerned for is some of my peers who are younger than me and are gonna actually have to face that kind of thing in high school.

It's scary, it's scary.

- [Ken] How about for you Emma?

- So, I have been very aware of House Bill 616, which is the one that affects personally me the most.

But I also got a rundown of the new state house resolution that's going through the State Board of Education later this week and next week.

And I think that one for me is the most concerning, as a lot of younger friends, friends now that that would greatly affect.

And to me, that is very scary.

And like Alex said, I'm just scared for our younger generations and people that still have to go through this whole high school, elementary school situation.

- [Ken] Yeah.

Dan?

- Especially when I was in high school, I had to be hyper aware of the legislation that was coming into.

I'm less familiar with Ohio legislation, but when I was in Alabama, with the work that I was doing as a Human Rights Campaign youth ambassador, which actually was a label that I didn't know that I had until after, I was kind of gifted that after I had spoken at a hearing against a bill in Alabama that was also blocking youth access to gender affirming care, which I had gone and spoken about that bill, because for me, gender affirming care was lifesaving.

I would not be here today without it.

And so, when I went and spoke at that hearing about that bill, and when it comes to especially with bills blocking access to education on these topics, I also run TransEq, an organization that does trainings on transgender identity history and equity, because I've realized the drastic need.

But working in Alabama against these bills, oftentimes the person who had proposed the bill attacking my access to be able to access gender affirming care had never in his life met a trans youth.

I spoke in front of the Democratic caucus in Alabama, and the first question that came out was, "Sorry, what does transgender mean?"

That is the level that we are oftentimes working with.

And it is so incredibly dangerous and so incredibly harmful that we aren't going to get that form of education if these kinds of bills are passed, because that is exactly, the lack of information is what allows these kinds of bills to happen.

'Cause I was able to actually have a one-on-one meeting with the speaker of the house in Alabama in high school, and I was able to convince him to oppose this bill through just telling him all of the facts and all of the truths about what this bill actually is, what it actually does, who we actually are.

And I think that education and access to information is so, so incredibly important, and I don't think that it is coincidental that that is what they are attacking.

- [Ken] Thank you.

(audience applauds) We wanna talk about HB 616 a little bit more, and I think it's so important that when we have conversations about HB 616, that we not call it the Don't Say Gay Bill, 'cause this is a bill that starts and ends with banning conversations on race.

So when we don't talk about the ban on conversations about race, we are not being intersectional.

And ironically, HB 616 is trying to ban conversations about intersectionality.

One of the other things that HB 616 does, Amanda, is bans professional development for teachers and school staff.

As someone who is on the ground doing professional development with teachers and staff, can you talk about one of those experiences?

And if you don't think I'm cuing you up for a certain story, you're wrong.

So, yeah.

(audience laughs) - Thanks, Ken.

- No problem.

(Ken laughs) - Yeah, so, Kaleidoscope Youth Center offers professional development kind of to anyone across the state of Ohio who would like to invite us.

A lot of that is in high schools particularly, but any school in Central Ohio that is looking to help their teachers understand the basics of gender and sexuality.

Really, like, how do I use they/them as a singular pronoun.

We're talking foundational things.

And usually those things go well, because I think there is a want for knowledge amongst teachers and amongst our communities.

They're really seeing this conversation happening around us, and they're thinking like, oh, what are they talking about?

Like, we need to get educated so that we know what they're saying and we can be involved in this conversation, which is great.

Teachers hear about discrimination statistics amongst LGBTQ young people; They wanna know how they can help.

We're here to help them learn how to help.

Sometimes those professional development sessions are made mandatory by district officials or principals, which is great.

We want everybody to have this knowledge.

And everyone does not want to receive this knowledge.

So I think it's really interesting.

I've been to a few school board meetings recently where folks are talking about teachers wanting to symbolize that they are a safe teacher to come to.

And the other side seems to always be, well, aren't all teachers safe?

Isn't that our job as teachers, to be safe?

Absolutely, but I can tell you from my own experience that all teachers are not safe.

And the instance that I'm being cued up for happened last winter when there was an article written about me in Central Ohio that kind of made the rounds in right wing media, I guess I would call it, that was a misrepresentation of myself, a misrepresentation of Kaleidoscope Youth Center, and really a misrepresentation of what we all are trying to do around this type of education.

Someone apparently recorded the training, because they had direct quotes from my training that you wouldn't know unless you were actually there.

And this article was written in a way that suggested that we, as allies to LGBTQ youth, are, you know, the word they like to use is indoctrinating, or that we are sharing information that's not age appropriate.

These conversations are often sexualized in a way that they don't need to be.

I am a professional queer, I talk about LGBTQ issues all of the time, and I have never once talked about what my wife and I do in the bedroom, right?

That's not what we're here for.

But that's kind of what things get boiled down to.

And this media kind of makes it around and makes environments that are really unsafe for everyone.

Because then you're seeing these things online, you don't what to believe.

You're like, oh, I read this thing.

Is that really what they're trying to do?

And I would want to spare youth any of that feeling as well, I think.

- Thank you, thank you.

- Yeah.

- Let's do a little magic wand time.

Let's pretend, for any straight people listening, that we need a magic wand and we don't already have these powers (laughter) as LGBTQ people.

Let me give you all, our youth, the magic wand.

And we'll start with you, Dan.

If you could change school or education or society, but we'll try to keep it to education, what would you change straight away for LGBTQ youth?

- I would first and foremost put trans people and queer people into the lesson plan.

I had never once, my entire time in elementary school, middle school, high school, seen a trans person represented in any history lesson I'd ever been given, in any lesson that I'd ever received.

And for me, I did not learn the term transgender until I was in seventh grade.

Even though that was what my experience was.

And I felt so incredibly alone.

And when you don't see yourself represented, you feel like either you don't exist or you shouldn't exist.

And so if there's one thing that I could do, it would be to include our history into the lesson plan.

- Thank you.

Got applause there, yeah.

(audience applauds) Emma.

- Honestly, I think Dan's plan sounds pretty good.

(laughter) I honestly, first and foremost, I would include queer people and LGBTQ+ people in our curriculum.

And I think I would also like to increase the services that we see, especially in our public school systems, with queer people.

Because I know in my school, we do have a GSA, and our guidance counselors are always there for us, but you don't see a lot of services that you would see in a college campus specifically for queer people in a high school, and I think I would like to implement those within a high school.

- Awesome, thank you.

What do you got, Alex?

- I would say, building on those things, I do really like Dan's idea.

(laugh) - [Ken] We're just gonna call it Dan's plan.

- Yes, Dan's Plan, yes.

(all laugh) - That's fine, yeah.

- In addition to Dan's plan, it's a yes, Dan, if I could truly wave a magic wand, I would say require diversity training to teachers.

And I know there are gonna be some people on the other end who are like, don't force me to do whatever.

But if I could truly wave a magic wand, I would say require diversity training, and especially in this realm of things, kind of like you were saying, using they as a singular and stuff like that, because, with a name change, I've gotten teachers to call me by the right name, but pronouns are forever an issue.

And I've kind of reached a point where it's like, I'm a senior now.

I don't have the energy to correct them.

If they're referring to me in front of a class, I feel like, out of a respect thing, I don't really wanna correct them.

So yeah, to wave a magic wand, it would be require training, so that those things that they don't understand, they're forced to start learning and get to understand.

- Amanda, you can have the magic wand too.

- I would love the magic wand to make every adult just listen to youth, honestly, and believe them when they tell us who they are.

(audience applauds) - Yeah, that would be great.

Where have you found some of the most support?

Let's talk about positive places of support in your journey.

And we'll go right back down the line.

We haven't started with you yet, Emma, so you're gonna start this one off.

(panelists chuckle) Where have you found some of the greatest support as you've navigated this journey?

- I think the greatest support has come from both my family and my friends.

They have all been incredibly supportive as I've been trying to figure myself out.

And I wanna thank them all for that.

- Awesome.

I love that.

I assume it is from a particular professor at your school, Dan.

(laughter) - Yes, of course!

(laugh) I would have to say Dr. Ken Schneck is pretty great.

But I have honestly, you know, being in a musical theater program, (laugh) there tends to be a pretty supportive environment.

- Yeah.

(laughter) - [Ken] What do you mean?

(laughter) - What?

- But in fact, the head of my program actually was my mentor as I was creating TransEq, which was so incredibly helpful.

But back when I was in high school, my mom has always been there for me in so many, many, many ways.

So my biggest support house has always been my mom.

- Although I'm gonna push back a little bit.

I've really enjoyed following your journey, just regarding the lack of representation of trans men in musical theater and finding parts for that.

- Absolutely.

Yes, I was initially told that I was the first openly trans person to enter any top musical theater program.

Turns out that was not the case.

There was actually one person five years prior to me at a different university who was treated so poorly that he dropped out.

But I was the first openly trans person to enter my top musical theater program.

So while, yes, it has not been an easy journey, and there have been a lot of things that I have had to fight against and work against, thankfully there has been a lot of willingness to learn and willingness to listen, that I have truly appreciated.

- That's awesome.

Where have you found support, Alex?

- I would say my family definitely supports me.

There have been parts of my family that necessarily haven't, but I would say I'm really a fan of chosen family.

And I think a big misinterpretation of chosen family is that it can't include your real family.

And it can.

I believe that my chosen family is the people I choose to be around and the people I choose to keep close.

And so, yes, that includes some of my biological family members, but I would say a lot of my support has come from my friends.

Because of the district I'm in, I don't have a lot of in-person friends, but I have a ton of online friends.

And I absolutely adore it being that way.

And I would just say, yeah, a lot of the relationships I can build with people from everywhere.

And people of all sorts of varying experiences, and I get to teach them, and they get to teach me.

So I think the biggest chunk of my support has come from a lot of just my really close friends.

- I love that.

National Coming Out Day is coming up in just a few days.

We all have different relationships.

It's a great opportunity to remind everyone that coming out is a process, and a continual process, and not a singular point in time.

Talk to us a little bit about National Coming Out Day.

Does that have significance for you?

Or even just the whole journey of coming out?

You don't have to tell your coming out story.

We don't have enough time.

(panelists laugh) They're all wonderful stories.

But just the significance of coming out and National Coming Out Day.

Can I spring that on ya?

Yeah.

(panelists laugh) - Well, I actually did come out first on National Coming Out Day.

- [Ken] I love that!

I didn't even know!

(Alex laughs) - In, I wanna say sixth grade.

I don't know if anyone's heard of Pentatonix?

(laugh) - [Ken] Of course.

- I used to be a diehard Pentatonix fan.

And Mitch Grassi and Scott Hoying tweeted out Happy Coming Out Day.

I was like, this is the day, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna write a letter to my mom.

And I came out on National Coming Out Day.

And it didn't go totally as planned, yada yada yada.

I'm not gonna tell my whole story.

But it definitely, it kick started everything.

And I think there were a lot of miscommunications throughout.

And it's just every single year, I come back to it.

I learned so much.

And it's so amazing to look back and be like, wow, look how far I've come.

Like I came out originally as, I think, bisexual.

I mean, it wasn't anything to do with gender.

I don't even identify as bisexual anymore.

And so it's just like, I feel like I've evolved so much.

And it's so cool to look at everyone enjoying the day, but also looking back and looking at where I've been each individual year since that sixth grade year when I did come out.

- You just helped the followers of Pentatonix.

(panelists laugh) Came out in acapella.

How about National Coming Out Day for you, Emma?

- To be honest, I never really saw anything about National Coming Out Day on social media or anything when I was younger.

But coming out for me, (chuckle) it was interesting.

I did it while we were driving.

And there were some tears, and then everything worked out.

So I'm just very happy about that.

But I think for a lot of young queer youth, National Coming Out Day should be a day of celebration for them.

And I think that's what it's turning into.

So that's a very good thing.

- Love it.

- As far as the National Coming Out Day goes, I kind of wanna stress in this moment how much coming out and living as your true and authentic self can affect your entire being and mental health.

Just to give an example, I had a lot of mental health issues when I was younger because of what I was dealing with, and what I was suppressing, and what I was trying to ignore and hide about myself.

And when I did finally come out to my mom, also in a car, (laugh) she said it was like my entire life flashed before her eyes and everything finally made sense.

So we're not making this up, this is who we are, this is who we've always been.

And my mental health has like, content warning, but I used to literally, for as long as I can remember, since literally early elementary school, I was suicidal.

And it wasn't until I was able to be accepted by the people that I love and get the care that I need, that I have, since receiving that care, have not for one day considered suicide at all.

(audience applauds) - How about National Coming Out Day for you in Kaleidoscope?

- I feel like the cool thing about National Coming Out Day, and the stories that I enjoy hearing, I think, are when folks feel moved to come out anew every National Coming Out Day.

And I think that's a cool thing about the current generation, is having that fluidity and having that understanding of the self to be like, oh yeah, maybe I came out as this identity three years ago, and now on National Coming Out Day, I'm coming out as this identity, which now feels more authentic to me.

And that's something that I really admire, and something that I think we see a lot at Kaleidoscope as we're serving that 12 to 20 age range that's still figuring stuff out, and we're here to support them through it.

- Thank you.

I will say I also came out in a car.

(Dan cheers) (panelists laugh) To my siblings, and they asked me if I was gay, and we were only three minutes from my parents' house, and so I did it very quickly.

As soon as I told 'em I was gay, we hit one of the worst traffic jams in the history (audience laughs) of the Garden State Parkway.

Our last super quick question, and then we're gonna get to questions from our audience.

One movie, song, TV show, book that you're like, oh, everybody's gotta know this thing, or was really influential for you.

Other than Pentatonix.

Was there something that you grabbed a hold of in media that really helped you in your journey?

- I feel like my kind of right away answer, it kind of makes me sad to say, a few years ago would've been Harry Potter, because I loved Harry Potter and would read it over and over and over again, and got to the last book at 2:00 am, and would seriously put down that book and pick up the first one again.

And since I still have appreciation for Harry Potter, obviously there's some, you know- - [Ken] Problematic aspects of the author.

- Problematic parts, yes.

But yeah, so I think for that, it was just, you know, a misplaced kid, that kinda thing.

But I would say, as of recently, a really big one is Demi Lovato.

And I don't know if anyone's heard news about them recently, but they came out as non-binary, said they, now I believe use she/they pronouns, but oh my goodness, just the power they have, and just released a new album recently that's more kind of like, a little bit more rockish, and just watching all their documentaries about their life, that, I think, yeah, Demi Lovato has been a really big one as of recently.

- Nice.

Book, artist, something you've grabbed onto, Emma?

- Okay, so I kind of grabbed onto the gay side of TikTok, so to call it.

(laughter) And I found creators on there that kind of, I kinda resonated with them.

I was like, okay, I get what you're saying.

And since then, you've watched them get into relationships, get out of relationships, so on, so forth.

You've seen big kids artists, like JoJo Siwa, come out to the world, and backlash against her.

But honestly, I really have latched on to the gay side of TikTok, and that.

- That just split the audience in half.

(laughter) - Yeah, sorry.

- Half the audience pumped their fists, and the rest of us just put our heads down, yeah.

Dan?

- Something I think everyone should watch is the documentary "Disclosure."

It goes into the history of how transgender people have historically been represented in media, and how that has actually affected our very real lives.

So that's my recommendation.

But the one that meant the most to me was seeing the character Aaron played by Elliot Fletcher in "The Fosters."

That was the first time I had ever seen a real trans person playing a real trans person.

And that is what gave me the courage to come out.

And that's why I've continued with performing, because I want to be that representation for someone else.

- Nice.

(audience applauds) Quick hit?

- Huh?

- You wanna do a quick hit?

- Oh, sure.

I'll go off of Emma's, but only because I am about 15 years older, it was YouTube instead of TikTok.

So, there you go.

(audience laughs) - [Ken] Okay.

I'm still hangin' out- - I hit right in the middle of that room split.

(audience laughs) - So we are about to begin the audience Q&A.

Again, I'm Dr. Ken Schneck, editor of the Buckeye Flame, professor at Baldwin Wallace and moderator of today's City Club Forum.

Today we are hearing directly from LGBTQ+ youth on the changing climate in their schools and communities.

Joining us on stage is Alex Carbone, a senior at Hudson High School.

Emma Curd, a senior at Hoover High School, Dan Rice, a trans youth ambassador for the Alabama chapter of the Human Rights Campaign and an undergraduate student at Baldwin Wallace University, and Amanda Erickson, Director of Education and Outreach at Kaleidoscope Youth Center.

We welcome questions from everyone.

City Club members, guests, students, and those joining us via our livestream at cityclub.org, or radio broadcast at 89.7 Idea Stream Public Media.

If you'd like to tweet a question for our panelists, please tweet it @thecityclub.

You can also text it to 330-541-5794.

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May we have the first question, please?

- Good afternoon.

Oh.

(audience laughs lightly) Thank you all so much for being here today and sharing your experiences.

My question has to do with intergenerational friendships and connections in the queer community.

Ohio has a queer history; It also has a queer future.

How can we work to create opportunities for queer people of all generations to come together, to foster meaningful relationships, and to learn with and from each other?

- You all have the opportunity to network much with older LGBTQ people?

And we're not gonna define how you see the word older.

(audience laughs) Intergenerational opportunities?

Not a lot.

- I do a lot of work with P Flag over here.

(chuckle) Amazing.

And so I've been able to connect with a lot of people outside of my specific generation through P Flag, and also through other work that I do with the Buckeye Flame and everything else.

And honestly, I think oftentimes people of other generations get concerned and are oftentimes afraid to say something wrong.

I think that's one of the biggest barriers right now, is that people want to help, but they just don't know how.

And I want to emphasize that, at least me personally, all that I look for, I don't expect everyone to have all of the correct language just off the bat.

I didn't know what the word transgender was, and I was that, until I was in seventh grade.

So I don't expect anyone else to have all of the correct words and all of the correct language.

And so I think honestly, something that will help the generational gap is the recognition of, all that I am looking for is effort.

I don't care if you have the right words, I don't care if you say something wrong.

All I care about is your willingness to learn, your willingness to listen.

And if you have questions, you know, not every person wants to be bombarded with questions, but if you show that you are willing to listen and to learn, and that you won't get defensive and that you will actually accept the teachings that oftentimes we're able to provide.

I think that is the key to getting rid of that generational gap.

- Awesome, thank you.

- What are a way that teens can look up or keep an eye on their rights that is, like, digestible?

On top of whatever school work they have, whatever work work they might have in the day.

What is something that they can look at to make sure that their rights as a queer person aren't being threatened, or to take actions on their rights if they are being threatened?

- Amanda, what do we tell youth to keep in the know?

- Yeah, honestly utilize social media, because it's something that you're probably looking at anyway.

And so it's not necessarily an additional thing on top of everything else that you're doing in life.

But try to pick out the organizations that are on the ground doing that kind of work.

So in terms of education stuff, make sure that you're following Honesty for Ohio Education.

They are here at the table right here in front of us.

And they're gonna keep you up to date on the state board of education issue that we're asking for testimony for right now.

They're gonna keep you up to date on other educational issues for Ohio.

I think following the ACLU, whether national or Ohio, is always great.

And they have really great tips for young people's rights and students' rights.

And that's something I think is important when we see these parents bills of rights coming up.

I think people like to pretend that young people don't have rights, but y'all are humans too.

And the ACLU does a great job in kind of outlining what your rights are as students.

And finding those kind of organizations and giving them a follow, I think, is a great way to stay up to date without taking too much of your time.

- It's been great to see organizations really embracing social media in different ways.

I know that Equality Ohio added a TikTok channel just in the past year.

Really embraced TikTok, and now Equality Ohio has the biggest TikTok audience of any statewide LGBTQ advocacy organization in the country.

So, yeah.

(audience applauds) - Can I take five seconds?

- Yeah, the content is amazing, but I think it also speaks to creating content that meets youth where they are, and people are clamoring for it, yeah.

- Kaleidoscope Youth Center actually published our first TikTok yesterday.

It's @kychhio.

(audience applauds) Thank you.

@kycohio, wasn't me, I don't know how.

- In a year, the Buckeye Flame will do our first one, yes.

(audience laughs) - [Man] Thank you folks for being here.

My quick question is, what can us geezers do or should do leaving this room to help you out?

- Who wants to take that one?

Where should people start?

Where do you want people to start?

- I think, just like Dan said, effort is one of the biggest things that you can do to help us.

As long as we see you putting an effort, we will help you, we will go along with you, we will learn with you, essentially.

And we can help you through that, I don't wanna say scary, 'cause it's not scary, but that kind of confusion that you may be feeling.

And I think, again, effort is just one of the biggest things that you can do for us.

- [Ken] Love that.

Yeah.

- I would say another, just like that, when Dan originally mentioned the effort, that is almost word for word something I've been telling people since I came out.

Like, I don't care.

Obviously I want you to get my pronouns right, but if you are trying, if you are repeatedly saying she, I mean they, and you care and you wanna correct, I mean, that's the most I can ask for.

I can't ask for you to magically be right.

But I would say a big thing too is a lot of people who aren't LGBTQ want to help, but they kind of sometimes can overshadow people who are LGBTQ and who do wanna tell their stories.

So I think a big thing is understanding that if you wanna help, you need to make sure that you're helping and you're working to help us instead of, I guess, doing your own thing and taking your own actions.

So I think although that can be good, maybe if it's something you're really passionate about, finding someone who is queer and who you wanna back up in going to the state house to talk about something, or whatever it might be.

Because I think the most important thing is that queer youth are the center of the conversation.

- Yes, awesome.

(audience applauds) - Also, as far as specific actions, contact your legislators about all of the bills that we've been talking about.

That would be another action, (chuckle) I would say.

- That's big, that's big.

- Hi, I'm Suzanne.

I use the she/her pronouns.

(clears throat) First of all, thank you for being the brave young people that I wasn't.

Thank you for that.

And I have a question for Dan.

I'm impressed that you're involved with HRC.

I'm on the national board, and I'd love to hear how you got connected so young.

- The initial connection for me was when I went and spoke at the hearing against one of the anti-trans bills attacking trans youth's access to medical care.

And after that point, Carmarion D. Anderson, who is incredible, is the president of the Alabama chapter of the Human Rights Campaign, she brought me then to the next hearing, and then invited me back to speak for the HRC lobbying day where we went and spoke to many different legislators.

And honestly, I didn't even know that I had the title of Trans Youth Ambassador for the Alabama chapter until I was invited to do another panel for them on healthcare.

And I had the little title underneath, and I was like, oh, I didn't even know I was that.

Good to know.

(laugh) - That's a resume builder right there.

I love that.

Awesome.

Thank you.

Yes.

- Okay, so this is kind of a heavy question, but being on social media, you obviously see very triggering stories, being a part of the LGBTQ+ community.

For you guys, what is the most triggering story you've seen or a story for yourself that you've been in that's kind of triggering.

It's a heavy question.

- And also how do you protect yourself as you navigate social media in that way?

Thank you for that question.

- I would say a big thing, (chuckle) I implore you, listen to trigger warnings.

Like seriously, because I know it's kind of like, you'll see a post with trigger warning, and it's specifically about maybe gay violence or something like that, but it's so easy to wanna be like, but I wanna know the story.

Please protect yourself.

Like I said, number one thing is safety.

So, yes it's important to be informed, but think about yourself first is a huge thing.

So I think especially the stories of people, it was the gay couple on the train who were harassed.

That was, for me, I mean, some of the pictures and stuff that were put out, it was really scary, and it was really real, and I feel like it was so out of left field, and there are all these verbal attacks.

But you don't see a lot of that kind of thing highlighted.

So, I think just navigating past those things.

The important thing is not necessarily the stories themselves, but making sure that we can pull something from it, and we can work to improve, I think.

- Any other tips in navigating?

- I think Alex said it pretty well for me.

- I would say, yeah, listen to trigger warnings when they're there.

Put down your phone if you need to, for a little while.

I know that oftentimes it just gets overwhelming, and I'm just like, okay, I'm not gonna open any social media for a second.

And I'm someone who likes to be incredibly informed, but the last summer, I literally couldn't be, because I was in working at a theater in Iowa and the hotel that I was in, the wifi didn't work, and there was no service.

And that was honestly so amazing to be able to just be a person for a little while and not have to like, I have to be so educated on everything happening in order to save everything, which, no, don't put that pressure on yourself.

One single person cannot hold the weight of the entire community.

But also, I don't read the comments.

Don't read the the comments, is another thing.

- Ever.

- Don't read the comments.

'Cause especially when there was a live of the hearing that I had spoken at, and when I went and looked back to look at how like I had spoken, I could see the live comments of people commenting on me as I was speaking.

Don't do that.

(chuckle) Don't read the comments, is another thing that I would say.

- Yeah, we published a story last week about a 15 year old in southern Ohio who was elected homecoming queen as a practical joke by other people.

And the story ends with this amazing 15 year old owning the title, and saying, "Heck yeah, "I don't care how I was elected, I was elected.

And the number one response that we got back from people was shock that the story ended well.

And so that was a real touchpoint for us, of, yeah, they're not all harrowing stories.

We know that for us, we have to make more of a commitment to tell some of these empowering stories as well.

So, great.

Thank you, next question.

- Is the mic working?

Okay, hi, my name's Gail Summer, I go to Campus International High School, I'm a transgender man, and I use he/him pronouns.

And something I wanna know is how do I kind of start the conversation at my school to get everyone more involved and more open-minded?

I've led protests at my school, I've spoken speeches, and I want people to be more aware.

And I just don't know how to do that, no matter how hard I try.

- First of all that you're asking that question is amazing, and we applaud you for that.

(audience applauds) Can you speak a little bit about the teachers stepping up so that perhaps the individual students don't have to?

- I think that's what has to happen.

And I don't like that that's the answer, right?

I know that this is the answer, and I wish that it wasn't.

It's finding the staff members and the teachers who can back you up.

Because we are in this situation where adults and school staff don't always listen to youth.

And so it can be really hard to be a youth leader who's trying to enact any change without any kind of adult support.

Because once you have that adult ally on your side, they can start bringing in other adults and get folks to listen.

If that person is a staff member, like in your main office administration, all the better, because they have that power and influence to be able to bring other staff in line.

But even if it's just one teacher, that can be helpful.

Let them know what it is you wanna do.

They can help you figure out how to do it, or you can bring them an idea and say, hey, I think the school should do this.

And they might know also the proper channels to go through to make something like that happen.

Like to have PD training or something like that.

But I think the answer to a lot of questions today is, like, find your people, find your chosen family.

And for a lot of students, that's gonna be a teacher or two that you can find to really back you up every time.

- And it really underscores the importance of having even affirming imagery in various classrooms, 'cause it helps students who are trying to create change find that chosen family.

- Find that person.

- Any tips from the high school college years of creating change in your own environment?

- I would say for me, at least, one of the reasons I'm here is because I decided to speak at my school board meeting about the Gender Queer book.

Which, highly suggest.

Huge plug for "Gender Queer."

If you haven't read it, read it.

It's a graphic novel, it'll take you an hour or two.

Such a good read, such a unique book of a unique story.

But yeah, I've spoken at a few school board meetings.

I don't know what the status is at your school with meetings like that, if that would be something you're comfortable doing or if you have done.

But I think not only making your voice heard within your school, but making your voice heard in situations like that, where it is maybe televised to the community.

Because I think a lot of what can happen is if you're big into it at your school, but they don't wanna share, or they wanna keep it hush hush or whatever it is, it can be really hard to spread that information to your community.

So for me, the school board meetings are shared to all of my small town I'm in.

But then I would see people at the farmer's market who were like, "Oh, you with the dyed hair, "you spoke, didn't you?

"Great job!"

And so, I think putting your voice out there about schools past just the school you're in, if that makes sense.

- And also make sure to dye your hair.

- Yes.

(panelists laugh) Which I love your hair.

Yes, yes.

- I think we have time for one more question.

- Hello, my name is Monica, I go by she/her, and I am a mom of a gender fluid weeb teen.

(laugh) And I just wanna say, you guys are all beautiful.

I applaud your journey, I applaud your courage.

And as a person of color, your journey was very similar to mine growing up.

And I wonder, do you reach out to other underserved communities to share your story, and to learn?

I mean, yes, there are days where you teach, and there are days where you don't have to teach.

You just live.

And there are days where you stand your ground, and there are days where you give ground.

Good luck.

- Thank you, yeah.

(audience applauds) Networking?

Any comments on working intersectionally, which is what we're trying to do?

Can I cue you up?

- Yeah.

I love that you bring that up, because I also feel like folks who are fighting against us, that's what they don't want us to do, right?

They don't want us to realize that their main goal is just controlling everyone who is not them.

And if we, in our various pockets of people who are being controlled can join forces and realize that that's happening, we're greater than them, there are more of us than them, and we can fight some of this.

But yeah, when we're not making those links, when we're staying separate and siloed, then we see things happening where they do gain control.

So yeah, I think it is absolutely important to think about and teach about and read about intersectionality and all of the different identities that are out there.

At Kaleidoscope, we put a lot of stock in a QPOC program.

So QPOC is people of color.

So trying to think about both their experiences as queer folks and also their experiences of people of color, and how those are impacting them in different ways.

But I think it is really important to reach out to other folks and have those conversations.

- Awesome.

I wish we had more time, but for right this second, want to thank Alex and Emma and Dan and Amanda.

Thank you so much.

(audience applauds) Also big thanks to the City Club Member Education Committee for their work on this forum, as well as Cynthia Peoples with Honesty for Ohio's Education, and the whole Honesty for Ohio Education team sittin' over there.

We'd also like to welcome guests at the tables hosted by Campus International High School.

(faint applause) Yeah, yeah, they got excited.

- Yay!

- Yes.

(audience applauds) The Cleveland Foundation, Fairview High School, Honesty for Ohio Education, Horizon Science Academy, Cleveland High School, Huntington, the LGBT Community Center of Greater Cleveland, and MC Squared Stem High School, thank you all for being here today.

(audience applauds) Be sure to join the City Club next week on Thursday, October 13th.

Brian Deese, the director of the White House National Economic Council will join the City Club to talk about the future of the Biden/Harris administration's approach to implementing recent legislation like the bipartisan infrastructure law, the Chips and Science Act, and the Inflation Reduction Act.

And then on Friday, October 14th, we will celebrate with the Deaconess Foundation as they announce the next Deborah Vesy Systems Change Champion Awardee.

Tickets are still available to each of these forums, and you can find out more by strolling it over to the website, CityClub.org.

That's CityClub.org.

And that, my friends, brings us to the end of today's forum.

Thank you once again to each of our panelists, and thank you members and friends of the City Club.

I'm Dr. Ken Schneck, and this forum is now adjourned.

(bell rings) (audience applauds) - [Narrator] For information on our upcoming speakers or for podcasts of the city club, go to CityClub.org.

Production and distribution of City Club forums on Idea Stream Public media are made possible by PNC and the United Black Fund of Greater Cleveland Incorporated.