public transportation it's an essential part of being able to participate in activities such as health care, education, employment, shopping, social events.

Northeast Indiana is home to about twelve the sixty eight urban and rural public transit systems in the state and without available, accessible and affordable transport options, people have limited ability to participate in activities and enjoy limited independence for Wayne's city Link shares story every day thousands of citizens from all walks of life rely on Citilink to get to school work, health care shopping and more for them, public transportation is a vital connection to life , community and opportunity.

Yet public transit is inadequate to meet even basic needs of some 8500 households who do not have access to a car.

People with disabilities, senior citizens, youth and those who seek alternatives to car ownership deserve safe, convenient and dependable transportation.

Community leaders recognize the needs and have envisioned expanded public transportation for four way.

But the challenges are great.

Public transit has been historic.

We underfunded in Indiana compared to neighboring states.

Indianapolis, however, has been given special abilities to expand public transit, increasing local funding and bringing hundreds of millions of dollars in federal investment to the city.

Indianapolis improved transit only when the community came together with one voice to demand it.

Imagine more busses serving more destinations with expanded late night weekends and on demand services together we can build the public transportation system our community expects and deserves.

>> In 2023, the Community Transportation Network initiated an in-depth transportation needs assessment in our region partnering with organizations like Fort Wayne Link and we'll discuss the report's results nd recommendations on this week's prime time good evening .

>> Conversations with us today is Justin Kluber, executive director of Community Transportation Network and joining Justin is John Metzinger, CEO and general manager with Fort Wayne Citilink.

And we invite you to join our conversation as well.

You can call in if you have a question or comment.

Just use the number that you see on the screen as we once again widen out and welcome Justin John to the program.

>> Thank you, gentlemen.

Thank you both.

Thank you.

I wonder how many people think your two organizations the same organization so happen a couple of times a week daily probably daily.

It's another way of saying tell us how you both complement each other when it comes to public transportation.

>> Well, Seaton was created in 2000 actually 24 years this month to really fill a need that was present in our community and part that need was a gap that we were seeing through public transportation and so we really work within a niche to support the greater work that CityLink is doing every day and moving massive amounts of people.

We're focusing in on folks that need a little bit extra assistance, what we provide andr through door assistance, getting to health care appointments, getting to employment and then working with the community for greater projects.

>> Well, you have quite a larger anniversary whenever that time comes.

I saw 18 70s as something about the time when public transportation and Fort Wayne were I think it's true, Bruce .

Public transportation has existed in greater Fort Wayne since the late eighteen hundreds.

CityLink was formed in nineteen sixty eight prior to that it was privately operated but it became a public entity that year and we've operated ever since.

>> And as a result of that and with the city's growth and the region's growth we all love growth but this is the infrastructure part of a kind I assume because it couldn't be roads it can be bridges and sewers and telephone lines but public transportation I'm wondering what were things you were seeing over the last five, six, seven some years where you're starting to recognize it?

>> It's time for an assessment.

Well and Keaton was created in 2000 because of an assessment in Allen County that the following year foundation funded.

So they did assess an assessment like this back in the late 90s, took the results, gave them to the community a group of nonprofit leaders as well as Citilink and said OK, solve this figure this out and out of that it wasn't an expansion of one agency services.

It was a completely new agency.

What link or what Seaton has done now our board has said what does the rest of the region look like and so that's how we got to this regional assessment and working with our partners like Citilink and the other rural transit providers throughout the 11 county region.

Is this a matter of how do you keep up when someone says hey, we've now had a few more neighborhoods and we're taking the city limit out to X and things of that nature?

Certainly when you look at how infrastructure in Indiana second larges largest city has grown loss of sprawl which is challenging to serve from a public transit perspective infrastructure you know, considering that public transit riders are also pedestrians, it's important that sidewalks, crosswalks and connectivity exist for people who are walking to catch the bus and that's a very great challenge on the outskirts of our city.

>> As you say just in this was not just countywide.

This is this is a fairly large scale all eleven counties in kind of assessment it was so you know, even a consultant that we brought in really hadn't done something of the scale of this magnitude to really look at an eleven county area and to understand where the transportation gaps what is being provided right now and where's the need still relevant and how do we start to fill those needs bringing all of those different parties together was was a challenge but everybody recognized the the need for having greater communication and more importantly collaboration.

And so we all came to the table to get this done.

Um, and as along the way throughout twenty twenty three in these other eleven counties Fairlie's had to say some aspect of a c10 or a Citilink is is present in some counties but maybe not to the same degree as Allen County.

>> Yeah public transportation exists in most counties surrounding Allen County with one exception.

>> So across the state it's important for for elected leaders especially to understand public transit is as much of a rural concern as it is an urban concern.

And what we're seeing and what comes up in the study are the needs that are there considering that a lot of senior citizens live in rural areas and need transportation into Allen County to access health care and other needs.

>> And so let's take a look at what the tale of the data begins begins to show because as you mentioned, this is a broad survey as the transportation assessment and some graphics that will help share what some of the data says.

>> Were you impressed with the way the process played out?

So one of the things that we wanted to understand was making sure that as we were collecting data that it was statistically relevant and the consultants came back and said you need at least forty one hundred survey responses to be statistically relevant.

We had that with over twenty two hundred surveys out of that we had respondents that age of sixty five twenty four percent have a disability or they live with someone who has a disability.

Some of the other unique questions that we were asking about is related to pregnancy and prenatal health .

Twenty one percent of our respondents said that they had had a baby or they were pregnant in the last 18 months and then obviously one of the things that we want to understand is related to who can't drive legally and twenty one percent came back and said that they had a legal violation that kept them from driving.

>> When you have that violation you need public transportation to get where you're going.

Mm.

When the data came back to it looked like it was relatively representative across all age groups this was not necessarily a heavily 55 plus or eighteen to twenty five but everyone was in the need was across the board and a lot of times I think especially when we look at what CTS does where we're serving low income seniors and people with disabilities folks are primarily looking at that population.

>> But when we go out into the communities, when we go out into the rural areas, it's anyone of any age that needs transportation and we have young people today that are actively choosing not to get a vehicle get even get a license because it's so expensive and I assume the persons and the situations that these that individuals find themselves in work for Citilink as well as for cotton in this case.

>> Oh absolutely Citilink.

What one difference between the two organizations is that Citilink provides public transportation available for everyone.

>> So considering the high cost of car ownership or for those folks who don't have access to a car or are unable to drive, they choose to ride public transportation.

The service meets a lot of needs today but if it could be expanded and grow there are a lot of unmet needs.

>> In fact let's look at that because there under the obstacles to driving yourself some of the data that came back would speak to the aspects of all of our lives to some extent not the least of which is the cost of keeping keeping the old the old clunker clunking exactly.

>> I mean you've got folks I mean we've experienced that even with our vehicles inflation has hit everything from fuel economies to the cost of repairs.

pThat's always a constant challenge for what we're looking at and it's a constant challenge for the average driver as well.

So other obstacles you know, we know that driving at night is a challenge and so we want to understand that we want to recognize that these are real obstacles for people.

>> And so when you're not able to drive yourself and you are looking at using transportation services, there are obstacles there.

Let's share the results of some of the top line on that one.

>> So I think I don't think the top to really surprise John or I or really any of our provider partners saying that no services available and a big part of that is just because we don't have the capacity we don't have the ability to bring in enough vehicles drivers to fill every single need out there.

And so folks consider that to be no service being available just yeah.

>> And related to that the funding challenges for both in the private side for Seaton and the public sector for public transportation Citilink Indiana has underfunded public transit as was shown in the video.

That's a very great challenge given that the needs are so great.

So there's a lot of room for the community and for people who want public transportation to have conversations about the funding mechanisms that are available to provide it isn't too there a reference in the study to public transportation being able to take someone to a doctor appointment or to work but then the none of eight to five side where you're shopping for your food you're willing to connect that this is a whole additional list of considerations.

>> And so when we look at the impacts of no transportation access, the biggest concern came back to the limiting the ability to shop for everyday things, limiting the ability to access the bank, the pharmacy, things like that.

I mean 27 percent twenty five percent came back and said those are what I need to be able to get to and you know, we're restricted not restricted but capped how we can serve because of the greater need of getting folks to the doctor's office and CityLink is has a challenge of of their capacity to serve later in the evening.

It's a real challenge for all of us if that absence of late night service is one of the indicators for that 18 percent of respondents who said they are unable to access jobs outside of working from home.

And so there are a lot of second and third shift employees and employers who would like to get them to jobs who are currently unable to do so.

>> And this is a great-challengd even across the age range in the L and Kelly segments and will share momentarily how you can follow along as the survey results are made public online .

You can dial this up as well.

But the the challenge of how late is late enough to run lines and service and then to differentiate between weekday and weekend.

>> Well, and I think it's not just how late you go but where do you go.

It's thinking about how far out you go.

One of the things that came up through the study is the real challenge of intercounty travel the need to connect between Allen County and Whitley County or Kosciusko County and Vice versa.

We have health care systems that are moving into larger regional offices and that requires folks to move from one county, go from one county to another to access possibly their doctor at least to access the hospital.

And so having those kind of inner county travel costs are significantly more expensive.

I don't know that that's necessarily something that comes to mind on its own.

I mean you you would just not necessarily think that it must exist somewhere but apparently it is not necessarily anywhere at all.

>> It does exist.

There are other states do have models that provide regional transportation.

>> So there is a there is a road map that we can follow.

One barrier is some outdated state legislation that prevents public transit agencies like Citilink from crossing the county lines.

So for example, we launched a van Poole program think about a carpool except the vehicle is subsidized in partnership with the employer and CityLink and it's been a little difficult to get that launched primarily because of this issue that the needs for workforce mobility are regional in nature.

>> Here's one that sort of related just within the same region.

Wesley is checking in with an offline question are there plans to expand service to Parkview Southwest?

>> So yeah, Citilink is going to be doing a study this year and next which will look at all the needs in the community including Parkview on the Southwest.

That location is currently served by our access bus, the paratransit bus for people with disabilities.

However, there is no fixed route bus service there currently so that's one of the locations that will be studied should funding become available we would be able to provide that service and there's also the possibility of partnering with Parkview or other organizations to provide the service.

>> We're at the place where there are additional findings that can come from the study and again we will share where you can find this online as as we go forward the travel between counties apparently a key takeaway, another that I understand is out there is the idea of public transportation options througout Northeast Indiana.

>> You each seem like the others option.

What else are we looking?

Well, City Lincoln and CTM work very closely together.

It's a good symbiotic relationship between the two organizations one strength that Citilink has is that we're really adept at using federal funds and so we pass some federal funds to and for operation.

pSo that solution works really well that on demand transportation that and provides in Citilink provides through our paratransit bus the access service but we are looking into other modes thinking outside of the bus.

So for example on demand services very uber like could be an option for greater Fort Wayne as long as those services are affordable and accessible to people with disabilities government.

>> Let's go to the phones briefly and welcome Fred.

>> He has a question for our guests this evening Fred.

Welcome to Prime Time, sir.

Go ahead.

Thank you.

I have a question I have I'm a former refugee case worker and my question relates to what kind of input that the immigrant community is being sought especially related to limited English access.

>> Well, I will jump in on that one.

So Title six of the Civil Rights Act actually requires public transportation agencies to provide for to provide translated material to non English or limited English populations.

So here in Fort Wayne , Spanish and Burmese are two large populations so our material is translated there.

Beyond that our outreach personnel are engaging with community providers who serve the immigrant community and we're always looking for opportunities to connect in more deeply, more deeply with the community.

>> Thank you for the question.

We're at a point too.

Let me ask you both it's that next steps question.

Certainly the ink perhaps is still drying on the report.

But Justin and John, a question for each of you.

What are your initial takeaway from the report?

What do we do with the revelations that have come from this past year's work?

>> I think you know, one of the biggest revelations I have is that nationl data that we've seen related to access to health care was mirrored in this assessment as well.

23 percent of respondents said that if they don't have transportation they're not even scheduling a doctor's appointment.

And so when we talk about early intervention being critical to everything, it's being mirrored in the study.

It tells us that the data that we have here is real.

It's correct and it's something that we need to be looking at.

It tells us that as providers throughout northeast Indiana we need to be looking at each other and saying how do we work together?

How do we take the next step and really convene real solutions?

>> I think another takeaway really is for the whole community, especially communities, the community leaders to make a shift in paradigm to begin thinking about public transportation and how people move about the community in different ways than we have before historically to really think beyond the automobile and to recognize that there is a need to invest in infrastructure and operations that can support mobility for those who don't drive.

>> At the top of the show we referenced Indianapolis and Indigo and wondering what and maybe you are wondering too what is Fort Wayne's version of that and maybe it's not that but it's like that and a little bit of something from somewhere .

Well, there certainly could be some similarities in Indianapolis did a really good job legislatively at the state House to receive special permission that currently we don't have here in Fort Wayne to raise additional local revenue to support expansion of public transit.

But they have a playbook that we can follow.

And as Indiana's second largest city and fastest growing metro economy, we believe our community deserves a well functioning public transit system and we can follow their playbook and pursue it.

Even the idea of within a county connecting rural with urban or rural to rural.

Exactly.

It's it's making that connection between our counties, between our communities, you know, right now sweetners is primarily restricted to Allen County service.

But we want to look at how can we support our partners and our neighbors in the neighboring counties and get them into Allen County or is there a way that if their provider is coming into Allen County with someone, can we help them find other rides to pick up while they're here before they take somebody back home even prior to this study, John, you have a city link had a 20 30 transit development plan so I'm assuming twenty twenty three helps inform the plan for 2013 for sure.

That plan was adopted in in 2020 just before the pandemic and as you might imagine the way that people move in the way that they work has changed dramatically.

So we will be pulling that off the shelf and revisiting the plan, really willing to carry it from where it left off but also to reconsider all of the recommendations that came from that plan.

So we'll be completing that work this year and next and from there hopefully we'll have a roadmap for what phased implementations might look like for expansion of transit with additional funding with the kind of community input you've had in the development of this this assessment and talk of the role of community input as you play out the recommendations from the users, you know we're going to have opportunities over the next many years to implement some of these recommendations and we're going to be seeking community feedback every single time at every single level because at the end of the day we're the operators but they're the actual users.

They have a perspective that is critical to fleshing out what this really looks like.

>> Agreed.

One hundred percent and there's nothing greater than just getting out on the system and riding the bus talking directly with passengers to hear their stories because our writers have stories of impact that can really shape our development plans.

>> Yep.

Let's take a moment now to tell you where in in and across the Internet you can be finding what we have been discussing and adjusting.

>> Let's start with you where ride CTM Dog is available.

So our website is right big.

This is we're sharing a bit of a teaser of the report tonight.

The full report will be released on May 22nd.

We are excited to share the full report with the community.

We have both an executive summary which is a lot easier to digest compared to the sixty five page document that is the full full report.

And then we also will have county by county reports available so each county can actually see exactly what is happening within their community and how this report impacts their local residents of course as well on the website if you are looking to explore services available and other ways to access an activity, yeah, we've got all all of our information is on our website at Right CTM Doug if you need a ride if you need help getting connected for a ride, we're happy to work with you on that.

>> And John, help up for City Link City Link also has a website available.

We also have our customer service staff available but if you hop on on our website you'll learn information about all the services that we provide including our travel training program which I did want to mention today.

That is a new program started last year that helps new writers figure out how to access our services so our travel trainer will meet writers at the bus stop and ride with them as many times as it takes for them to feel comfortable using our service.

>> It's a great program and we appreciate you being able to hop on this bus with us over this past 30 minutes together as we look to the great next developments within public transportation across northeast Indiana.

John Metzinger is the CEO general manager with Fort Wayne Citilink, Justin Klepper, executive director of Community Transportation Network or Cotton.

And gentlemen, thank you so much.

>> Thank you, Bruce .

Thank you and thank you as well for allowing us to be a part of your evening with all of us and from all of us with prime time.

I'm Bruce Hayes.

We'll see you next week.

Goodbye