>> The death of Minnesota man, Alex, pretty at the hands of federal agents is just the latest incident in the ongoing immigration crackdown to draw national attention and a wide array of reactions.

Some people have sought to blame pretty and American citizen and registered nurse with Trump administration officials alleging his killing can be chalked up incendiary language from Democrats into the fact that pretty was carrying a gun at the time, even though he had a lawful concealed carry license.

>> This tragedy occurred as a result of a deliberate and hostile resistance by Democrat leaders in Minnesota.

They have also used their platforms to encourage left-wing agitators to stock record, confront and obstruct federal officers who are just trying to lawfully perform their duties.

This individual who came.

>> With weapons and ammunition to stop a law enforcement operation of federal law enforcement officers committed an act of domestic terrorism.

That's the facts.

>> Here with more on Second Amendment rights is Van Der Linden again, a firearm instructor and founder of J Indy Defense, which provides training and classes needed to acquire it.

Concealed carry license.

And Courtney Redmond, firearm instructor at Red Hill, Firearms Training and former president of the 700 61st Gun Club as well as on Zoom, Harold Krantz, a professor at Chicago.

Can't College of Law.

Welcome back.

And welcome to the 2 of you.

Thanks for joining us thank God so on.

start of the 2 of you in studio when some federal officials in this initially justified the deadly use of force by pointing to the fact that Alex pretty was armed.

Jermont London again, first to you.

What reaction did you have as a gun owner?

>> What keep hearing all of the statements that he should not have brought a gun to a protest he had extra magazines.

He was a concealed carry permit holder.

He legally was able to carry a firearm in Minnesota does not have prohibition legal firearm owners permit holders cannot take them to protest.

So he was within his right to carry a firearm and he was concealed and they are.

So they're they're also an open carry state as well.

But he was concealed.

You can see he's got.

>> it's best to the family.

First.

But what I think is, you know, you do up to any when you do go to a protest.

But everyone has a right to actually protect themselves.

whether you protest and that I think one of the questions as between anyone is the protests.

All right.

And some people call it that.

Some people use that rhetoric.

don't necessarily agree with it now, but some people use that rhetoric to say that whether he was causing trouble or not that does change the dynamic of when you walk area.

And I hope you know, we have table discussion about it.

>> Harrell credit, we know as Glenn just stated, you know, there is no federal or state law that prohibits protesters from carrying a gun.

Contrary to what the FBI director has said.

Do you think the presence of a firearm that wasn't enough to justify the deadly use of force by law enforcement?

>> Of course not.

never has been and indeed many supporters of the Second Amendment are pushing back and what the administration has stated.

I think the ministrations.

He's trying to be seat on this one has as well.

The fact that is they didn't even see the gone until after he was really pushed to the ground and he was in no position to use the So we it's next.

discussing the lame excuse.

You know, when I hope we see justice in this case, whether prosecution or whether it be a toward suit and it gets to enjoy, think what would get the other panels just said.

There's been terrible training here you think the just the trigger happy and they don't know when it's not easy decision when to pull the trigger trained well for me to train about what to do these individual seem to lack basic training.

>> Dhs officials also said, Harold, that pretty was obstructing a law enforcement operation, which again, not necessarily grounds for deadly force.

But how how is that determined on the ground in the moment whether or not he's obstructing a law enforcement operation?

>> We're generally is to try to you have to be hindering law enforcement in.

conducting a law enforcement operation for you have to trying to I someone who debt the law enforcement are trying to apprehend something along those lines.

In this case, she was filming.

So the idea that he struck any kind of lawful enforcement operation by filming is again preposterously everything that we know of from the videos that have been collected.

So, yes, it's possible that someone can hinder law enforcement agents.

But in this case, it's a bystander with us >> The first assistant U.S.

attorney for the Central District of California.

So in California, Bill Essayli, he posted to social media saying, quote, If you approach law enforcement with a gun, there is a high likelihood they will be legally justified in shooting.

You don't do it to battle in your former law enforcement officer.

What is your reaction to that statement that make sense what he's saying?

But he did pretty did not approached officers.

If you look at the video, the officers aggressively, not the lady down.

He was trying to protect the lady.

>> And then they walked up on him.

So he still had his camera high enough you know, where he was filming.

So didn't look like he was reaching for a gun.

They did not see a firearm.

I mean, nothing in the video showed me a firearm until one of those officers retrieved the gun when they you know, when they had him on the ground, so situation would have been different.

Had someone had a gun in hand walking towards officers.

Absolutely.

And he was walking away walking back.

They were walking aggressively towards him.

>> The Second Amendment Foundation.

They were concerned with some of the commentary that's coming from folks like Seeley saying that he was contradictory to the right to bear arms.

Here is what the Second Amendment Foundation said in a statement.

Quote, the claim that some are making that the peaceable carry a firearm near officers is enough to justify them using legal the full force is an affront to the Second Amendment rights of all Americans.

People should not be are interacting with police officers just because they are lawfully carrying.

Fortunately, it goes on to say it looks like U.S.

attorney FBI director, Kash Patel and others espousing those views.

Excuse me have since clarified them.

And yesterday the White House press secretary seemed to walk them back as well.

Courtney, do you agree with this?

What do you teach your students about gun safety and responsibility, especially when encountering law enforcement got a when you're in county, law enforcement always stay calm.

you know.

>> Peacefully to the police officer that is pulling you over even with the situation was a chaotic situation that we do have to bring that up.

It was more than just at was out there.

There were more people.

They were along with was banging pots.

There UPS trucking and get in the way of federal law enforcement officers that that has to come into play.

Also.

So one of the things is peaceful and that was one of the things that they said statement a slimy and peaceful.

And that's what I agree with that your peaceful person, PIA PC, protesting you should be shot because of that.

>> I just want to one of the things that are training, one we had to go top secret security clearances.

They vetted us to make sure we have the right temperament for the job.

So, you know, you can't react because somebody is blowing the whistle or taunting.

You are calling you names.

You know, obviously, if somebody tries to attack or touch and officer, that's a different story.

Changes the game.

But if you're in law enforcement, you have to have a thick skin.

You should know how to interact with the public and how to have a crowd control.

I am concerned about how fast maybe these individuals were trained or maybe not trained because they seem to be very trigger happy.

And just because somebody is blowing the whistle should not be enough for you to just react and pour your firearm and shoot somebody.

>> Herald the administration, they have made some changes since the shooting.

Greg Bovino has been replaced by borders.

Are Tom Homan.

There seems to be some communication between Governor Tim Walz and President Trump.

Some Republicans themselves are calling for an investigation.

Do you think we've reached a tipping point and why this specific shooting?

Why run a good war?

So Villegas Gonzalez, which was here in Franklin Park.

>> And the fact that there's been 2 shootings in Minneapolis so close together and the fact that the report it's been so far removed from what people can see on the videos is having an impact.

And I think Republicans are starting to push back.

We haven't seen as very often during this administration.

I think this is one of some of the first signs the Republicans are saying, you know, is enough.

We live in a civil society.

You cannot have happy ICE agents, you know, going all over the place, particularly as was just mentioned.

They seem to lack basic training.

So maybe we can say I hate to be optimistic.

Probably is not any room for but maybe this is a step in the sort of the right-sizing of this administration.

And so they will not provoke individual.

So they have been doing so shamelessly for the past months.

>> All right.

That is where we'll have to leave My thanks to the 3 of you for joining us to Van Der Linden again, Courtney Redmond and Harold Krantz.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Take care.

And if