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♪ Host: hello, everybody and welcome to "ChatBox."

It seemed like a quiet week but a lot has happened in Trenton as the summer season approaches.

We are going to talk about transportation, transparency and trains today so hang on because we are going to be moving fast.

Let's start with this conditional veto.

Earlier this week from Governor Murphy of a bill that allows elected officials and others to keep their home addresses secret all supposedly in the name of safety.

Perhaps, but it also opens a lot of opportunities for bad actors.

Let's talk with attorney CJ Griffin, partner at Ashman Stein Walden Hayden and she has been watching and sounding the alarm about the increasing oh pace city at the Statehouse.

Welcome and good to see you.

Can we give viewers a quick update on this bill that just got this conditional veto from the governor?

it is not like he is against the bill, he only vetoed it on a technicality.

What does the bill do?

>> the bill allows lawmakers, local politicians, the mayor and city council members to redact their street address on their financial disclosure statement.

In the past they would have to list the address of their properties they own and now they can redact those addresses so we will not be able to see where they live or what properties they own elsewhere.

Host: it seems like every window where we want to look in is getting a shade pulled down.

I counted three times where in the last year the legislature has voted to straight up hide stuff.

I imagine in your practice you get a more concentrated view of that, no?

>> we have been working under the regular laws where we are fighting to make government comply with the transparency laws that we have which is always an uphill battle and that we have the legislature adding exemptions and levels of secrecy to it and it is frustrating and no doubt it will result in corruption, frankly especially when you have thousands of people that are now going to be able to redact their addresses on financial disclosure statements, and then other people can keep their addresses redacted on property records.

Host: what is a good example of the kind of corruption that can result from you not knowing your County commissioners address or your city Council members address or your mayor's address?

>> I am not a criminal so I am sure a criminal can think of worse ideas but off the top of my head one, it makes it difficult to check to see if your local elected official is paying their property taxes or if they work out some deal with the government agency not to pay them.

It also allows for secret land transactions between donors or others that might want to influence politicians.

They can sell homes for an inflated price or purchase homes for a reduced price and it will be hard to track that.

Host: if I am a county commissioner and I own four plots of land next to a billion-dollar development that is going to need county approvals or something like that, you don't need to know that I live next door to the new stadium.

>> you would not know.

There might be ways for reporters to figure this out but it makes it so much more difficult rather than just look at a financial disclosure statement.

Host: now we have these 501(c) four's that don't have to disclose their donors and the farce of a rule that says an issue advocacy group run by the mayor's wife can't and we are supposed to believe won't coordinate on ads and such.

We have elect with no teeth.

You don't know where your mayor lives -- all of this is what, the new reality?

>> I am really worried.

To some extent there has been some good intention behind some of the laws.

Initially Daniels law was passed to protect judges and I agree they need to be protected.

I just don't think secrecy and this level of expense secrecy is the way to go and we have already seen people weaponizing Daniels law against reporters are members of the public that want to expose something.

This week a reporter spoke at a public meeting and said, the chief of police lives two hours away and all of a sudden that chief writes the reporter a letter invoking Daniels law and threatening suit and penalties if he does not stop doing that.

Host: I think it was you who mentioned this week something about all of the things you find when you look back at the stuff that happens on the cover of states of emergency.

We saw it in the previous administration after Sandy with dubious checks and balances with no big contracts.

We went through a two-year state of emergency with this administration.

Will you be shocked if you learn of similar slackness?

>> absolutely not.

Whenever you relax laws intended to protect the public from corruption and nepotism then you end up with some people abusing that process.

I think we are already seeing some comptroller reports and we will probably see more once we have reporters able to dig into this stuff.

For what should not have been a no-bid contract all under the guise of, it is COVID and we have to do emergency bedding.

Host: this administration has been criticized by many including many of us in the press for, during the first term, having pretty opaque policy on transparency under the cover of this state of emergency because of the pandemic.

The state of emergency is gone.

Is there any sense that the shades are going up now at the Murphy administration?

>> I would say there is still a significant delay in things.

And not even talking about the records relating to COVID.

For example I had a client and we filed a request for a police internal affairs report that the two reports that the Supreme Court -- we just got the response last week in May 2023.

The state police in particular is taking months to fulfill requests.

Maybe they are eventually producing the records but it takes many objections and a significant amount of time.

Host: two folks at home, should everyone learn this process, how to get stuff from the freedom of information act?

>> I call it OPRA.

It stands for the Open Public Records Act and most records that public agencies hold our public records which means that they belong to us in the government is considered the custodian of the records.

There is a process by which you can request them.

There is a form on every agency website and they're supposed to respond within seven days and give you the records.

We see the significant delays.

You can use that law to get copies of everything from the budget and Council meetings, emails that your political officials are sending but also you can request the check ledger to see what is going out and monitor who is getting the payments and if they are proper.

Host: CJ Griffin, good talking to you and thank you for coming on with us.

Another topic heating up this week is congestion pricing.

That is a plan to charge a tax on anyone driving into midtown Manhattan.

Jersey officials from Governor Murphy to Congressman Josh Gottheimer are howling about it being unfair and even threatening retaliatory taxes.

Here to bring some logic and to the conversation and maybe put in a good word for mother Earth is policy analyst Alex.

Hello and welcome to "ChatBox."

The New Jersey side says, why are we paying a tax so the MTA can improve service over there?

That is understandable.

>> one thing I want to make clear is who we are talking about when we talk about the people that commute into Manhattan.

Less than 2% of North Jersey commuters are driving into downtown Manhattan during rush hour.

The vast majority of people are taking transit.

And that 2% are among some of the wealthiest people in our stage.

Those drivers will still see benefits from this congestion pricing since it is a proven way to reduce traffic and air pollution.

And if you have sat in traffic you know what a huge deal that is.

What about the remainder of the commuters who are taking mass transit?

they are facing service cuts and fare hikes while our state proposes to give a million dollars to corporations like Exxon Mobil and Amazon instead of the New Jersey transit.

Host: why do we hear politicians like the governor and Congressman and others in the New Jersey delegation saying this is terrible and we are going to tax New York for every time they come over here?

What is that, politics?

>> I am a born and raised Jersey girl.

I love dunking on New York more than the next guy.

We have better pizza and better bagels but we don't have a better transit system and we don't have a better way to find it.

New York's plan has nothing to do with New Jersey's transit issues.

New Jersey lawmakers are proposing service cuts and fare hikes before they consider funding New Jersey transit it's pre-pandemic level.

We all want easier commutes for New Jersey residents and less traffic and less air pollution and the data shows the best way to do that is by investing in mass transit while proposals like billion-dollar highway widening and service cuts will do the opposite.

Host: Give me the 30-second argument for congestion pricing.

>> it is great that lawmakers are showing concern for New Jersey transit.

The New Jersey lawmakers have known about this proposal for years.

They have still not identified a New Jersey transit funding source.

I continue to oppose projects that would create more traffic and air pollution.

This is one way to reduce both and it is an equitable way to find New York's MTA and those commuters that are driving in or taking transit that are taking MTA in the city will see those benefits because of the dedicated funding source.

Host: let's say the congestion pricing plan goes into effect -- is this going to be an improvement around the edges?

are we really going to see midtown Manhattan moving along traffic wise?

at 9:15 in the morning after we institute congestion pricing?

Or just slightly better?

>> if you ever see that look in the sky because I'm sure that the pigs will be flying.

This is a proven way to reduce traffic and air pollution and not just for New York.

All of the residents of New Jersey that live in the metro area will see the benefits to reduced traffic.

Host: but, when?

Will there be an immediate impact?

Or is it a longer-term solution?

>> it is both a short and long-term solution.

By investing in public transit we are moving people off the road.

To really see a big difference in New Jersey's air pollution and traffic we also need to invest in New Jersey transit.

As we said, 98% of the commuters going into Manhattan are taking transit.

Host: can we talk a little bit about the environmental impact of congestion pricing?

I am not an environmental analyst but what does it mean to have fewer cars on the road for people who live, for instance, in midtown or near the George Washington Bridge?

>> I am not just an analyst.

My bachelor of science sitting on my shelf -- Congestion pricing has been studied and is proven to reduce air pollution.

But it is just one part of the puzzle.

To reduce pollution we need to be taking active steps to move cars off the road including funding New Jersey transit that is facing a billion-dollar deficit over the next two years, that means moving forward policies like clean cars two.

Host: it is budget season.

We have been hearing about the dedicated funding source.

Is there an easy one on the horizon?

should fare increases also be on the agenda for that?

>> New Jersey transit is facing a billion-dollar deficit over the next two years.

This is not a surprise.

New Jersey transit has been chronically underfunded for years and we still have baked in service cuts from the Christie era and the state has not returned to funding New Jersey transit at the pre-pandemic level.

New Jersey transit is as essential for the canonic mobility of our stage.

It will also help us achieve many of our environmental goals.

Host: how do we fund it?

is there something out there where we can say, let's take this from here and put it there to get some kind of a regular funding source?

the Jersey City Mayor echoed a lot of people including the New Jersey policy perspective who say, keep the corporate business tax surcharge and use it as a dedicated source for NJ transit.

>> just because something as simple does not mean it is easy.

If it were easy I feel that would've been done at this point.

It is not a secret that New Jersey transit is chronically underfunded.

At the end of this year with the corporate business tax surcharge being subset, the state is planning to give away a billion dollars in tax cuts to some of the wealthiest corporations in the world including Amazon.

What is the better use of a million dollars?

giving it away in tax cuts to corporations like Amazon or spending it on New Jersey transit?

Host: who will have the courage to do something like that?

I have to tell you, I don't have a lot of confidence at the corporate business tax is not going to be allowed to sunset.

Somebody has to step up and have the guts to say, we are going to increase fares a little bit and we are going to take the money to find this agency.

We have to wait until the next governor?

>> New Jersey transit is facing this billion-dollar deficit now.

The New Jersey transit service is as essential to so many people in New Jersey and identifying a funding source is a priority that needs to be addressed now so those riders do not suffer undercut service.

Host: the CBT sunsetting, is that the only or best revenue source?

>> it is also obvious that funding New Jersey transit is not a shortage of ideas.

If you ask 10 transit advocates you will get 10 different answers.

It is not a shortage of ideas or a shortage of funds considering we have a multimillion dollar surplus.

And we are planning to give away a billion dollars to some of the wealthiest corporations in the world.

Host: it is a shortage of what?

>> a shortage of political will.

We need lawmakers to stand up for the vast majority of people that take transit to their jobs, doctors, family and to all over the state.

And stand up for their service to make sure we can continue our economic mobility in New Jersey.

Host: policy analyst Alex, good to see you again and thank you for coming on with us.

Finally today I want to take you back to a time when there was almost too much mass transit in New Jersey I did tell you the story of a guy following his passion.

Kevin Fallon is a former PBS shooter and editor who left his full-time job to become executive director of the United Railroad Historical Society of New Jersey.

He is at a train station in Albany right now.

Hello, Kevin, you are in a suit and tie.

>> my suit attire.

Host: how did you come to this work?

>> I volunteered restoring old trains for 10 years and two years ago we started the Hudson River rail excursions.

I was the only one crazy enough to leave a good job to do this.

Host: you are now in a restored Pullman car.

Where did that train start?

>> Penn station, New York.

We run on the New York Central Railroad.

Host: what does the United Railroad historical Society of New Jersey do?

>> we preserve old trains and the stories that go with them.

New Jersey has one of the densest rail maps in the country.

At one point it was the most dense in the United States.

The story of railroading in New Jersey tells the story of railroading around the country and it is unmatched anywhere.

We have the remnants of these original railroads and we preserve them and when we can we run them and show people what it is like to see railroading at its best.

Host: such a totally different experience from then until now.

You worked out of a railyard in a defect of Museum of the rail industry.

My grandson who is three is a train fanatic and we did a walk-through which he loved.

Describe the place there and what you do there.

>> I described it as a museum which is like a zoo.

We keep the equipment there.

Every restoration we do adds another generation of memories.

We have this equipment that was meant for the state transportation Museum.

We are reenergizing the effort to find a permanent place for all of these things.

Every day they sit outside they get a little smaller.

These things deteriorate and we are in a constant battle to preserve this.

How so we can tell the stories using the real thing.

Host: I have a light rail train station in my backyard.

There has been a train station there since 1860.

Give us a quick history of the central railroad of New Jersey and eyes you referred to earlier the density of the amount of rail that ran through New Jersey.

>> this is one of a bunch of railroads that ran across New Jersey.

The funny thing is these New Jersey railroads were trying to get as close to New York as they could.

The terminal is on the water because people used to go to Jersey City and then take a ferry across to the city.

Although these railroads ran through New Jersey and the short routes were commuter routes like the one behind your house that brought people to work.

In a lot of cases they went through the country so what was made here went out by railroad.

All of what we used including coal would come to New Jersey through these giant railroads that are now often skyscrapers.

Every state park used to be a railroad.

Host: I have told you before and on our road trips that I want a genuine train Museum at Liberty State Park.

What is the big dream for you guys?

>> we want to find a permanent place where we can let people relive the experience.

What we are about is teaching by showing and not by doing.

We can tell you about trains all day and I do but the best way for people to really understand what railroads were like and the superior level of transportation we used to have is by doing.

Right now we run excursions out of New York City and we show what railroading was like at its best.

We want to give that experience to people on a smaller scale.

But with a lot more trains every day.

Host: you are sitting in a restored Pullman car.

>> this is one of two that can run, in this case on Amtrak.

We have a lot of other equipment that can run on a smaller railroad.

Host: we are looking at people sitting at chairs and tables.

It is a whole different experience.

>> these were nightclubs on rails and they did not let you forget it.

What you are looking at there does not exist commercially anymore.

There are no observation cars or fine dining on rail.

We want to show people what travel was like-- when it was as good as it was.

That car is 75 years old.

75 years ago is not as long-ago as we want to think it is.

Host: Kevin Fallon free from having to deal with David Cruise on a regular basis.

Thank you for coming on with us.

It is "ChatBox" for this week.

You can follow me on twitter and get live streams and all sorts of great content when you subscribe to the channel.

We are off next week for the holiday.

Hope your summer season kicks off well.

I am David Cruz, from downtown Newark, thank you for watching and we will see you in a couple of weeks.

>> Major funding is provided by NJM Insurance Group, serving the insurance needs of New Jersey residents and businesses for more than 100 years.

Promotional support is provided by Insider NJ a political intelligence network dedicated to New Jersey political news.

Insider MJ is committed to giving serious political players and interactive forum for ideas, discussions and insights.

Online at insider MJ.com.

♪