GOVERNOR HOCHUL ENDS CONGESTION PRICING.

LOCAL GOVERNMENTS GIVE TAX BREAK TO FOSSIL FUELS.

AND HUNTER BIDEN AND THE RULE OF LAW.

STAY TUNED, IVORY TOWER IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

I'M JOINED AROUND THE TABLE TONIGHT BY LUKE PERRY, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY, ANIRBAN ACHARYA FROM LEMOYNE COLLEGE, AARON STRONG FROM HAMILTON COLLEGE, AND RICK FENNER FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

GOVERNOR HOCHUL SHOCKED PRETTY MUCH EVERYONE LAST WEEK WHEN SHE INDEFINITELY --PAUSED-- THE CONGESTION PRICING PLAN FOR NEW YORK CITY.

THAT WAS THE PLAN TO CHARGE UP TO 15 DOLLARS A DAY FOR CARS TO DRIVE BELOW 60TH STREET IN MANHATTAN.

THE IDEA WAS TO EASE TRAFFIC, REDUCE POLLUTION AND RAISE MONEY FOR MASS TRANSIT.

IT WAS SUPPOSED TO TAKE EFFECT AT THE END OF THE MONTH.

THE PLAN WAS UNPOPULAR, BUT SO WERE SIMILAR PLANS IN OTHER MAJOR CITIES LIKE LONDON AND STOCKHOLM THAT NOW ACCEPT THE IDEA.

SO ANIRBAN, DID GOVERNOR HOCHUL MAKE THE RIGHT THING IN PAUSING THIS PLAN.

AND BY PAUSING THE PLAN, KILLING THE PLAN.

>> IT SEEMS LIKE THE PLAN IS INDEFINITELY STALLED.

MIAMI MY QUESTION IS LIKE WHY.

IS THERE A REASON FOR IT?

THERE IS DATA THAT SAYS IT WILL HURT SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

IT IS TRUE THAT SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS PROTESTED.

SOME AREA TRUCKERS PROTESTED BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE BROADER DATA FROM LONDON, FOR EXAMPLE, AND OTHER PLACES I WAS LOOKING AT THIS ECONOMIST AND HE SHOWS IN LONDON AND OTHER PLACES, THESE KINDS OF CONGESTION PRICING HELP SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS BECAUSE THEY CAN DELIVER GOODS OR SERVICES AT A MUCH MORE HIGHER RATE AND FASTER PACE AND IT SAVED $150 POUNDS PER PERSON.

WITHOUT THE DATA, WITHOUT ACTUAL, YOU KNOW, EVIDENCE AS TO HOW IT IS HURTING AND HOW MANY PEOPLE IT IS HURTING, WE JUST COMPLETELY CONTRARY TO THE PREVIOUS STUDY... >> $15 A DAY OUT OF YOUR POCKET.

>> BUT IT'S ONLY $15 IF YOU DRIVE AT THE PEAK TIMES.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE MAKE FUN OF ECONOMISTS FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO AGREE ON ANYTHING, BUT IF YOU TOOK A POLL OF ECONOMISTS ON THIS, I WOULD BE WILLING TO BET THAT 90% THINK THIS CONGESTION PRICING WAS THE RIGHT THING.

YES THERE COULD BE DISTRIBUTIONAL PROBLEMS ASSOCIATED WITH IT BUT HOW MANY LOW INCOME INDIVIDUALS REALLY ARE DRIVING THEIR CARS IN LOWER MANHATTAN BECAUSE THE COST OF DRIVING FROM GAS, INSURANCE AND PARKING IS REALLY, REALLY HIGH.

PLUS, IF YOU ARE WILLING TO DRIVE OUTSIDE OF THE PEAK TIMES, THE PRICES COME DOWN VERY QUICKLY.

>> THIS WAS A TERRIBLE DECISION BY GOVERNOR HOCHUL AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE ECONOMICS OF IT, BUT FROM A CLIMATE PERSPECTIVE, IT'S A REAL SIGNAL THAT SHE IS NOT A CLIMATE CHAMPION.

CONGESTION PRICING WAS IN THE SCOPING PLAN FOR IMPLEMENTING OUR CLIMATE ACT HERE IN NEW YORK STATE AND WE HAVE LOST THE MOMENTUM BEHIND THAT.

SHE IS GIVING THE SIGNAL THAT WE ARE NOT ACTUALLY SERIOUS ABOUT TRYING TO REDUCE EMISSIONS.

THERE ARE GOING TO BE 120,000 MORE CARS IN MANHATTAN THAN THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN IF THIS WENT INTO PLACE.

THOSE CARS ARE PUTTING OUT CARBON DIOXIDE EMISSIONS AND POLLUTANTS HARMING NEW YORKERS RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS A MAJOR STEP BACKWARD.

>> LUKE, IF THIS DOESN'T WORK IN NEW YORK CITY, CAN THIS WORK ANYWHERE IN THE U.S.?

>> I THINK IT'S TIMING.

WHAT AARON SAID IS TRUE BUT IT'S ALSO TRUE SHE DID THE DEMOCRATS A SOLID BY PULLING THIS IN ABBY ELECTRICS YEAR.

THE DEMOCRATS ARE LOOKING TO WIN BACK THE HOUSE.

I THINK NEW YORK IS GOING TO BE PIVOTAL ON THAT.

GOING TO TRY FOR SEATS ON LONG ISLAND AND PICK UP A COUPLE SEATS IN LOWER CENTRAL NEW YORK WHERE THOSE PEOPLE DRIVE IN AND PROBABLY DON'T WANT TO BE TAXED.

SO I THINK SHE GOT CALLS FROM DEMOCRATIC PARTY LEADERS AND REPUBLICANS HAVE CRITICIZED THIS AND THEY'RE RIGHT AND I THINK SHE SAID ALL RIGHT, I'LL HOLD IT OFF THIS YEAR TO HELP YOU GUYS WIN.

>> BUT THIS IS A STATE AND CITY ISSUE, NOT A FEDERAL ISSUE.

>> I'M NOT SAYING IT'S THE RIGHT MOVE.

I'M JUST SAYING FROM A POLITICAL STRATEGIC STANDPOINT, I THINK THAT'S WHY SHE DID IT AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.

>> EVERYBODY THINKS THAT DRIVING IS A FREE LUNCH AND IT ISN'T.

WHEN PEOPLE DRIVE IN DOWNTOWN MANHATTAN, THEY'RE NOT ONLY IMPOSING COSTS ON THEMSELVES, THEY'RE IMPOSING COSTS ON EVERYONE HELLS ELSE, VIA THE CONVENTION JETION-- CONGESTION AND POLLUTION.

WE DON'T WANT TO TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT.

GOING TO THE LOW INCOME INDIVIDUALS, IN THE LONG RUN THEY'LL BE HURT BECAUSE THE TRANSIT AUTHORITY WAS CONTINENTING ON THIS REVENUE TO TRY TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS THAT WOULD HELP LOW INCOME INDIVIDUALS GET INTO THE CITY.

THIS IS A DISASTER.

>> AND YOU KNOW, YOU ARE VERY RIGHT.

DRIVING HAS A SOCIAL COST.

IT HAS AN EXTERNALLALITY.

MOST TIMES DRIVES DON'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE COSTS, YOU ALLOW THE DRIVERS TO INTERNALIZE THE SOCIAL COST.

AND YEAH, I AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUES HERE, I DON'T SEE ANY CLIMATE OR ECONOMIC REASONS BUT POLITICALLY I GET THAT BECAUSE MANY PEOPLE WOULD BE REALLY ANGRY ABOUT THIS.

THIS IS NOT A GOOD TIME TO, YOU KNOW, TO ROLL THIS ROUT.

MAYBE IN THE FUTURE IT WILL BE ROLLED OUT.

>> IS NOW A GOOD TIME TO TAKE THE SUBWAY?

REPUBLICANS ARE POUNCING ON THAT ISSUE AND THIS ADDS FUEL TO THAT.

>> SO IS THERE ANYTHING THAT DO HAVE BEEN DONE DIFFERENTLY?

>> SHE COULD HAVE ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN.

>> IF THE WAY THE WHOLE PLAN WAS PUT TOGETHER, THE LAW THAT WAS PASSED TO CREATE THIS, TO MAKE THIS-- >> YOU COULD DEAL WITH THE REDISTRIBUTION PROBLEMS.

THERE COULD BE A TAX CREDIT TO LOW 234-BG INDIVIDUALS WHO HAD TO PAY THIS, GIVE BACK THE FIRST 500 OR A THOUSAND DOLLARS.

THERE ARE WAYS THEY COULD HAVE REDUCED THE IMPACT.

>> YOU CAN ROLL IT OUT IN AN ODD NUMBER YEAR, NOT AN EVEN NUMBER YEAR.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE COST?

YOU SAID $15 IS NOT THAT MUCH, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THIS PLAN WAS PUT TOGETHER MAINLY TO RAISE MONEY FOR MASS TRANSIT AND MAYBE BY TRYING TO HIT THAT NUMBER, THAT'S A PROBLEM.

>> THAT NUMBER WAS DEVELOPED, INCLUDING ECONOMISTS THAT TRIED TO COME UP WITH THE COST ASSOCIATED WITH DRIVING IN DOWNTOWN MANHATTAN AT CERTAIN TIMES NOW GREN, IF YOU ARE WILL-- AGAIN, IF YOU ARE WILLING TO DRIVE IN AT 6 A.M. OR OTHER TIMES, THE PRICE FALLS BELOW.

THIS IS NOT $15 ALL THE TIMES.

JUST CERTAIN TIMES.

>> IT HAS BEEN DONE ELSEWHERE, IMMENSELY POPULAR.

I KNOW THE POLITICAL CALCULOUS IS THAT IT WAS UNPOPULAR BUT IN THE LONG RUN IT IS A POLITICAL MISCAL CHAITION BECAUSE CLIMATE POLICIES PROVE IMMENSELY POPULAR OVER TIME AS THEY'RE ROLLED OUT.

>> CAN THE STATE LEGISLATURE SOMEHOW WORK AROUND HER ON THIS.

IS THERE ANYTHING THAT CAN HAPPEN THERE.

>> POSSIBLY BUT I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GOING TO.

>> AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, LOOK, THE STUDIES ARE SHOWING THAT AT THIS MOMENT, THERE ARE CARS THAT LOSE ON AN AVERAGE $150 AN HOUR, STANDING IN THE JAM, NOT BEING ABLE TO GET ANYWHERE.

THESE ARE REAL COSTS THAT PEOPLE ARE PAYING, RIGHT?

$15 WAS NOT THAT MUCH YOU LOSE $150 PER HOUR TO GET IN AND OUT AND THERE ARE A COUPLE OF ENTRIES THAT ARE FREE.

>> IT HAS BEEN FIVE YEARS SINCE NEW YORK STATE PASSED THE CLIMATE COMMUNITY AND PROTECTION ACT, THE LAW MANDATING THE STATED'S ELECTRIC GRID EMISSION FREE BY 2040.

IT TURNS OUT LOCAL AGENCIES HAVE BEEN HANDING OUT SUBSIDIES TO NATURAL GAS PLANTS.

AN INVESTIGATION BY THE NON-PROFIT NEWS SITE NEW YORK FOCUS FOUND LOCAL INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT AGENCIES GAVE MORE THAN A BILLION DOLLARS IN TAX BREAKS TO FOSSIL FUEL PROJECTS SINCE 2010 MANY OF THOSE DEALS WERE MADE BEFORE THE CLIMATE LAW WAS PASSED, BUT THERE'S STILL A TENSION BETWEEN THE SUBSIDIES AND THE STATE CLIMATE GOALS.

SHOULD THEY BE FORCED TO FOLLOW THE STATE'S CLIMATE LAW?

>> IT SHOULD.

IT ABSOLUTELY SHOULD.

WHEN IT COMES TO ENERGY, MOST PEOPLE DON'T REALLY CARE WHERE IT COMES FROM.

THEY JUST WANT A HOT SHOWER AND A COLD BEER AND I JUST WANT AN ENERGY SYSTEM WHERE WE HAVE HOT SHOWERS AND COLD BEERS IN WAY THAT DON'T KILL PEOPLE BECAUSE OF THE POLLUTION CAUSED BY BURNING FOSSIL FUELS.

WE NEED TO HAVE AN ELECTRIC GRID IN NEW YORK STATE THAT DOESN'T INVOLVE FOSSIL FUELS AND RIGHT NOW A THIRD OF OUR ELECTRICITY COMES FROM NATURAL GAS, WHICH IS A FOSSIL FUEL.

IF THE STATE IS SERIOUS ABOUT STEAKING TAKING ACTIONS ON CLIMATE CHANGE, WHICH IT IS BECAUSE IT HAS ADOPTED A NATION LEADING CLIMATE LAW IN 2019, IT'S GOT TO FOLLOW THROUGH AND IMPLEMENT THOSE AND THAT MEANS FIGURING OUT WHERE ARE WE STILL SUPPORTING FOSSIL FUELS IN OUR SYSTEM RIGHT NOW AND WE NEED TO MOVE OUR ENERGY SYSTEM AWAY FROM FOSSIL FUELS.

THE SCIENCE IS VERY CLEAR ON THIS.

>> I AGREE WITH AARON.

THE PROBLEM REALLY IS THESE INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT AGENCIES.

AND I HAVE BEEN A CRITIC OF THEM FOR AT LEAST 30 YEARS.

THEY HAVE A VERY POOR TRACK RECORD IN NEW YORK, LACK OF TRANSPARENCY, LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY TO TAXPAYERS.

THEY SEEM TO CARE MORE ABOUT THE BUSINESSES AND INDUSTRIES THAT THEY WORK WITH AND SO THE PROBLEM REALLY IS THAT THEY HAVE THIS POWER TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT, AND IN THIS CASE, IT'S CLEAR.

THEY'RE SUBSIDIZING THE VERY INDUSTRIES AND COMPANIES THAT NEW YORK STATE HAS DECIDED SHOULD CHANGE SHOULD GET SMALLER AND IN SOME CASES DISAPPEAR.

>> THEY'RE ALSO SUBSIDIZING RENEWABLE ENERGY PROJECTS, ARE THEY NOT.

>> 85 CLEAN ENERGY PROJECTS WERE SUBSIDIZED THE LAST TIME THE STATE COMPTROLLER HAD DATA ON THIS THERE IS INFORMATION.

THEY DON'T PUT FORTH THE INFORMATION AS THEY SHOULD AND THE STATE STRUGGLED TO COLLECT IT THEY'RE GIVING 1.$1 BILLION IN TAX DOLLARS TO INDUSTRIES.

MOST OF THOSE ARE IN, IT IS A WAY TO PROMOTE CLEAN ENERGY BUT IT'S NOT HAPPENING AT A GREAT DEGREE.

>> AND THEY DID PROMOTE CLEAN ENERGY, DID THEY NOT, IN TERMS OF MOVING AWAY FROM COAL.

YOU MENTIONED NATURAL GAS AND FOSSIL FUEL OF COURSE IT IS BUT THAT'S... >> LET'S BE CLEAR ABOUT THIS.

NATURAL GAS IS QUOTE CLEANER THAN COAL.

WHY?

BECAUSE IT PRODUCES LOWER CARBON EMISSIONS PER UNIT OF ELECTRICITY DELIVERED TO HOMES THAN COAL DOES.

WE DON'T HAVE COAL FIRED POWER IN NEW YORK STATE RIGHT NOW.

SO SAYING NATURAL GAS IS CLEANER IS LIKE SAYING YOU KNOW, WE AREN'T DOING THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD BUT WE ARE STILL DOING SOMETHING PRETTY BAD.

I'M KNOT GOING TO EAT THE DOUBLE CHEESEBURGER.

I'M JUST GOING TO EAT THE CHEESEBURGER.

YOUR DOCTOR IS TELLING YOU NEED TO STOP EATING CHEESEBURGERS AT ALL SO STILL HAVING NATURAL GAS IS STILL BURNING FOSSIL FUELS, STILL CONTRIBUTING TO CLIMATE PROBLEMS.

WHETHER OR NOT WE WANT TO USE I.D.A.s TO SUPPORT RENEWABLE ENERGY PROJECTS AND HOW STATE IS DOING PERMITTING FOR RENEWABLE ENERGY TO ME IS A LITTLE BIT OF A MIXED BAG AND THERE ARE SOME ISSUES WITH HOW WE ARE PERMITTING RENEWABLE ENERGY PROJECTS BUT FUNDAMENTALLY NEW YORK STATE SHOULD NOT BE IN THE BUSINESS OF SUPPORTING FOSSIL FUEL COMPANIES.

>> WHY HASN'T THE STATE PASSED THE REGULATIONS.

>> THEY DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE THE VOTES.

SO THERE IS ANOTHER SITUATION RIGHT NOW WITH THE NEW YORK HEAT ACT WHICH DIDN'T PASS, WHICH IS TRYING TO BRING THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION IN LINE WITH THIS CLIMATE LAW.

IT HAS PROVED THORNY.

YOU PASS THE CLIMATE LAW, LOFTY GOALS, HARD TO GET THE POLITICAL VOTES IN FAVOR OF ACTUALLY WALKING THE WALK.

>> ANIRBAN.

>> I WAS READING THAT THESE IDEAS ARE PUBLIC BENEFIT CORPORATIONS AND EMPOWERED FROM STATE LAW FROM THE 1960s TO, YOU KNOW, PURSUE POLICY GOALS THAT WILL HELP AN ECONOMIC DELVE INTO AN AREA, WE HAVE 1100 OF THOSE IN NEW YORK STATE.

EVERY COUNTY HAS ONE OF THOSE.

THERE ARE SOME TOWNS AND VILLAGES.

I DON'T NECESSARILY SEE THE PROBLEM IN ACTUALLY IN THE IDEA PER SE AS LONG AS THEY CAN GENERATE INCOME, EMPLOYMENT, BUT I WAS LOOKING AT THE OFFICE OF STATE COMPTROLLER'S REPORT AND IN THE REPORT IT CLEARLY SAYS THAT THIS MASSIVE LEVELS OF LACK OF TRANSPARENCY, LACK OF REPORTING, NOBODY KNOWS HOW MANY JOBS WERE CREATED AND ONE OF THE CONTENTIOUS ISSUES IS THE PILOT.

IT'S NOT A TAX BUT A PAYMENT IN LIEU OF TAXES, RIGHT?

AND THAT THEY HAVE TO PAY TAXES ON PROPERTIES OWNED BY.

I.D.A.

ON THE WHOLE, I THINK FOSSIL FUEL SUBSIDIES ARE BAD BUT AT THE SAME TIME I DON'T KNOW WHY IT DOESN'T CONFLICT WITH THE STATE LAW AND IF IT COULD BE SUE INNED HIGHER COURT THAT YES THEY CAN DO THIS BUT THEY CANNOT SUBSIDIZE PROJECTS THAT ARE ANTITHETICAL TO NEW YORK STATE LAW ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND I DO NOT KNOW WHY THAT IS NOT THE CASE.

I'M NOT A LAWYER.

>> THERE IS THE DATA.

THE STATE COLLECTS DATA HOW MANY JOBS I.D.A.

CREATES.

THEY'VE CREATED 200,000 JOBS.

THE TAX REDUCTION IS $5,000 A JOB.

IT'S NOT NECESSARILY MONEY WELL SPENT.

I'LL DEFER TO RECYCLE THAT BUT WE DO HAVE SOME DATA.

>> BUT THE LACK-- THE METHODOLOGY IS TERRIBLE.

IF I HAVE A BUSINESS AND I SAY I'M GOING TO ADD 10 JOBS, GROCERY STORE, 100 JOBS, LET'S SAY.

I CAN SHOW THAT I DID THAT BUT ACROSS THE STREET THERE IS ANOTHER GROCERY STORE THAT NOW HAS 80 LESS JOBS.

THE NET GAIN FROM MY OPENING A GROCERY STORE THAT GOT THIS I.D.A.

MONEY IS ACTUALLY 20 BUT ON PAPER, IT LOOKS LIKE 100.

TERRIBLE TRACK RECORD.

>> SO IF THERE IS A COUNTY THAT HAS AN I.D.A.

AND THERE IS A COUNTY AJACE ADJACENT TO IT THAT ALSO HAS ONE AND THEY BOTH WANT THE SAME PROJECT.

>> THERE IS A LAW AGAINST PIE RACY THAT YOU CANNOT PIRATE OUT PROJECTS FROM ONE COUNTY TO THE OTHER.

THAT'S IN THE LAW.

ANTIPIRA CY-- LAW.

>> ONE OF THE CRITICISMS IS THAT ONE OF THE BIG IMPACTS IS ON SCHOOLS.

SCHOOL TAXES, PROPERTY TAXES.

SO, RICK, HOW DOES THAT WORK?

>> WHAT HAPPENS IS AS ANIRBAN SAID, THEY DON'T GET MONEY OUT RIGHT, THEY JUST HAVE TO PAY LESS TAXES AND IT'S USUALLY PROPERTY TAXES AND SINCE PROPERTY TAXES, YOU KNOW, IS THE MAJOR SOURCE OF INCOME FOR LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS THEY GET AFFECTED GREATLY BY THESE I.D.A.

PROGRAMS.

>> BUT THEY LIKE IT, BEING ON THE SCHOOL BOARD, WHEN YOU GET A COMPANY THAT WANTS TO COME IN AND PILOT, YOU ARE GETTING MONEY THAT YOU WEREN'T BUDGETING.

IT WILL DECREASE THE TAX BASE BUT YOU ARE GETTING EXTRA MONEY AND YOU DON'T USUALLY VOTE AGAINST IT.

>> IF THEY CAME IN ANYWAY, YOU WOULD GET... >> YOU USUALLY DON'T.

THINKING IS THEY WILL PROBABLY GO SOMEWHERE ELSE SO YOU NEGOTIATE FOR AS MUCH MONEY AS YOU CAN GET AND IT'S GRAVY.

>> THE NEW YORK FOCUS PIECE DID A GOOD JOB IN SAYING OFTEN TIMES WE HAVE TO SAY WE WOULDN'T GO ANYWHERE ELSE BUT IN REALITY THAT'S SELDOM THE CASE.

>> BARBARA SENT US AN EMAIL.

THERE IS ONE THING THE PILOTS ARE NOT COMPLETELY FREE.

THEY'RE TIED TO PERFORMANCE STANDARDS.

>> WE HAVE OFTEN DISCUSSED ON THIS SHOW THE TRIALS OF DONALD TRUMP.

THIS WEEK WE HAD THE CONVICTION OF PRESIDENT BIDEN'S SON, HUNTER BIDEN, ON A GUN CHARGE.

THE TRIAL HAD ITS SHARE OF DRAMA THE TESTIMONY OF HALEY BIDEN, HUNTER'S EX-WIFE AND BIDEN'S DAUGHTER NAOMI.

WE SAW THE ANGUISH OF ADDICTION AND SPLINTERED FAMILY.

RICK, WHAT IS YOUR TAKEAWAY FROM THIS PARTICULAR TRIAL.

>> IT WAS A VERY SAD CASE BUT I LOOKED AT IT IN PERSON WITH THE TRUMP CASE AND WHILE THE TWO CASES HAVE, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT SPECIFIC CHARGES, WHAT THEY HAVE IN COMMON IS BIG NAME.

THEY HAVE CHARGES THAT COULD OR COULD NOT HAVE BEEN FILED.

THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCRETION ON THE PART OF PROSECUTORS.

YOU HAVE OBVIOUSLY POLITICAL CONSIDERATIONS.

AND WHAT I WAS HAPPY TO SEE IS THAT THEY WERE HANDLED IN STINT CONSISTENT FASHION.

AND IN BOTH OF THEM, JURIES FOUND THAT DEFENDANTS GUILTY AND RATHER QUICKLY.

SO FOR ME, I LOOK AT THIS AS THE JUSTICE SYSTEM WORKED AND ONE SIDE CAN'T GO AND SAY THIS IS ALL RIGGED.

>> FOR THOSE OF US WHO ARE IN FAVOR OF COMMONSENSE GUN LAWS, WE KIND OF AHAVE TO WALK THE WALK HERE.

THIS IS A LAW THAT HE BROKE, WHICH BASICALLY SAID THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE ADDICTED TO DRUGS SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO PURCHASE A GUN AND HE LIED ABOUT WHETHER HE WAS USING CRACK COCAINE AND PURCHASED A GUN AND HE SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO AND, YOU KNOW, IF WE WANT TO SUPPORT GUN CONTROL AND COMMONSENSE GUN LAWS, WE NEED TO SUPPORT THE IMPLEMENTATION AND HE WAS GUILTY.

>> SEEMED A PRETTY CLEAR CASE FROM WHAT I HAD BEEN READING.

ANIRBAN.

>> YOU KNOW, THERE ARE TWO PARTS TO THIS.

ONE IS THAT, YES, THERE WERE CRIMES THAT WERE COMMITTED AND THE JUDICIAL PROCESS SHOULD TAKE ITS COURSE.

BUT I SEE A STARK DIFFERENCE IN THE WAY THE REPUBLICANS REACT TO THIS AND THE DEMOCRATS LEADERSHIP REACTED TO THIS.

THE REPUBLICANS WERE SCREAMING THIS IS RIGGED.

>> TALKING ABOUT TRUMP.

>> BUT WHEN THIS COMES, DEMOCRATS SAID THIS IS THE JUDICIAL PROCESS, THE JUDICIAL PROCESS SHOULD TAKE PRECEDENCE AND WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE APPEAL.

NOW I WAS READING ARTICLE BY A PROSECUTOR WHO SAID THIS IS A STRANGE CASE.

IN MOST CASES IT COULD HAVE BEEN RESOLVED BY AN APPEAL AND THERE WAS AN APPEAL ON THE TABLE LAST YEAR BUT THEN IT GOT SCUTTLED BY ONE OF THE JUDGES APPOINTED BY TRUMP AND THE TAX LAW THAT IS COMING UP, THE TAX CASE COMING UP, SIMILAR CASES LIKE THAT HAS BEEN RESOLVED BY PERSON GIVING BACK THE MONEY.

SO DID IT HAVE TO GO TO A TRIAL?

NOT REALLY.

GO ANY PROSECUTOR WAS ASKED, WOULD YOU WANT TO PROSECUTE, YOU KNOW, RECOVERING ADDICT, MANY PROSECUTORS WOULD HAVE DECLINED.

SO OF COURSE THERE IS A JUDICIAL PART OF IT.

THIS IS LAW.

THE LAW WAS BROKEN, BUT GOING, TAKING IT TO THE TRIAL, I THINK IS A LITTLE BIT MORE POLITICAL.

IT COULD HAVE BEEN RESOLVED BY AN APPEAL AS IT HAS BEEN DONE MANY, MANY CASES.

>> LUKE, WE BEGAN THE CONVERSATION SAYING THAT THIS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED IN TANDEM WITH DONALD TRUMP.

I DISAGREE.

DONALD TRUMP IS A FORMER PRESIDENT AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE.

HUNTER BIDEN IS A PRESIDENT'S SON AND I REALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE STORY.

I'M IN AGREEMENT THE LAW SHOULD BE ENFORCED.

I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH IT HAPPENING HERE BUT FRONT PAGE NEWS?

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE PUBLIC BENEFIT ON REPORTING THAT IS.

I THINK WE HAVE TO THINK LONG AND HARD ABOUT GOING AFTER THE KIDS OF ELECTED OFFICIALS, EVEN IF THEY'RE ADULT KIDS BECAUSE WHO WANTS TO RUN FOR OFFICE?

WHY WOULD I RUN FOR CONGRESS KNOWING MY FAMILY IS GOING TO GET SCRUTINIZED TO THE SAME DEGREE I AM.

THAT'S NOT THE TYPE OF ENVIRONMENT WE WANT FOR OUR DEMOCRACY AND I'M FRUSTRATED AND DISMAYED... >> HUNTER BIDEN WAS ALREADY TIED TO THE PRESIDENT WHEN HE WAS VICE PRESIDENT BECAUSE OF THESE SUGGESTIONS THAT THERE WAS UNDUE INFLUENCE BECAUSE OF THE CONNECTION.

SO I SEE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, LUKE, BUT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT A SON THAT CAME OUT OF NOWHERE.

THERE WERE ALREADY THE LINKS BETWEEN BIDEN AND HIS SON.

>> IS YOUR ISSUE HERE, LUKE, THAT THE PROSECUTORS HAVE SCRUTINIZED HIM OR THE MEDIA?

>> PROSECUTORS NEED TO DO THEIR JOB.

I THINK IT REPUBLICANS HAVE TRIED TO MAKE THIS ELECTION ABOUT HUNTER BIDEN, THE MORE WE DO THAT, THE MORE WE ARE HELPING THE ELECTORAL STRATEGY.

THERE IS NOT A PUBLIC BENEFIT TO COVERING THIS TO THE DEGREE THAT WE HAVE.

>> SO IF THE PROSECUTORS ARE BRINGING A CASE AGAINST THE SON OF A PRESIDENT, AN ADULT SON, A 50-YEAR-OLD SON OF A PRESIDENT, YOU ARE SUGGESTING THAT'S NOT NEWSWORTHY.

>> IT SHOULD BE REPORTED ON BUT NOT ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE MAJOR NEWSPAPERS OF THIS COUNTRY THIS.

>> I CAN TAKE FROM IT THAT COMMENT THAT WE SHOULD NOT BE DISCUSSING IT ON "THE IVORY TOWER"?

>> I DIDN'T VOTE FOR IT.

>> AND FOR THE AUDIENCE, WE DO VOTE ON WHAT TOPICS WE ARE GOING TO DISCUSS.

>> I'M NOT TRYING TO BE SOUR GRAPES.

>> THAT'S OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

SO ON THAT NOTE, WE ARE GOING TO MOVE TO OUR AS AND FS AND LUKE, WE WILL START WITH YOU.

>> MY F GOES TO THE SHENANDOAH SCHOOL DISTRICT.

THEY VOTED TO RENAME THEIR SCHOOL NAMES AFTER CONFEDERATE SOLDIERS AND PROMPTED A LAWSUIT BY THE NAACP WHICH I HOPE IS SUCCESSFUL.

>> MY F GOES TO THE RAMPANT THE CULTURE OF SEXUAL ABUSE CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE AND COVERUPS.

OVER THE PAST TWO DECADES HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE SEXUALLY ABUSED CHILDREN WHILE OFFICIALS AT EVERY LEVEL OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM HAD FAILED TO PROTECT KIDS, PUNISH ABUSERS AND PREVENT ADDITIONAL CRIMES.

1800 CRIMINALS, 99% OF THEM MEN, ALL POLICE, HAVE TARNISHED THEIR PROFESSION AND CONTINUED TO MAKE OUR COMMUNITIES AND CHILDREN UNSAFE.

>> AARON, F. >> A FREQUENT RECIPIENT OF FS LESS THAN ONE MONTH AFTER SIGNING A DON'T SAY CLIMATE BILL IN MAY, GOVERNOR DeSANTIS OF FLORIDA HAS HAD TO DECLARE A EMERGENCY AFTER RECORD CLIMATE TURBO CHARGED RAINFALL, 20 INCHES IN SOME PLACES HIT FLORIDA THIS WEEK.

THE OCEANS ARE THE HOTTEST EVER RECORDED AND IT FALLS ALL OVER FLORIDA.

MY HEART GOES OUT TO THOSE OR DEALING WITH THE LATEST MANIFESTATION OF CLIMATE EMERGENCY F TO GOVERNOR DeSANTIS.

>> MY F GOES TO DONALD TRUMP FOR CLAIMS LEE MADE THIS WEEK SAYING THAT IF HE IS ELECTED PRESIDENT, HE WILL LOWER PRICES.

DESPITE NOT GIVING ANY EVIDENCE, MOST ECONOMISTS LOOKING AT THE POLICIES THAT HE SAID HE WOULD PURSUE SUCH AS DEPORTING MILLIONS OF IMMIGRANTS IN TERMS OF DECREASING CORPORATE AND INDIVIDUAL TAXES, INCREASING STRAIFS WILL DO QUITE THE OPPOSITE.

THESE WILL ALL PUT UPWARD PRESSURE ON PRICES AND POTENTIALLY REINVIGORATE INFLATION.

>> TO OUR AS.

>> MY A GOES TO ICONIC BASKETBALL PLAYER AND HALL OF FAMER JERRY WEST WHO DIED THIS WEEK.

Mr.

CLUTCH AS HE IS KNOWN, HAS BEEN THE INSPIRATION FOR THE NBA LOGO.

>> AND ANIRBAN, YOUR A.

>> NEW YORK REVIEW OF BOOKS IS ISRAEL COMMITTING GENOCIDE.

AS A VETERANS HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER WHO WAS INITIALLY AGAINST CALLING THIS A GENOCIDE WRITES AT LENGTH WITH DETAILED EVIDENCE AS TO WHY ISRAEL IS COMMITTING GENOCIDE WITH BOMBS SUPPLIED BY THE U.S. ONE GLARING EVIDENCE IS DEFENSE MINISTER'S WORDS THAT HAVE BEEN FAMOUS, I HAVE ORDERED A COMPLETE SEIZURE OFF THE GAZA STRIP, NO ONE WILL BE ALLOWED FOOD, ELECTRICITY, EVERYTHING WILL BE CLOSED.

WE ARE FIGHTING HUMAN ANIMALS.

THIS IS GENOCIDE.

>> MY A GOES TO THE NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY FOR PASSING THE CLIMATE SUPER FUND THIS WEEK THAT AWAITS GOVERNOR HOCHUL'S SIGNATURE CHARGING FOSSIL FUEL FOR THE DAMAGE CAUSED BY CLIMATE CHANGE.

GOVERNOR HOCHUL LOST CREDIBILITY WITH THE CONGESTION PRICING DECISION, SHE NEEDS TO SIGN THIS INTO LAW NOW.

>> MY A GOES TO THE NEWEST INFLATION NUMBERS WHICH SHOW WE HAVE MADE FURTHER PROGRESS IN REINING IN PRICE INCREASES AND I GIVE THE FEDERAL RESERVE AN A FOR IGNORING FEDERAL PRESSURE AND ANNOUNCING THEY WILL BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT THE NUMBER AND TIMING OF CUTS IN INTEREST RATES TRYING TO FIND THE SOFT LANDING ALLOWING US TO AVOID A RECESSION AND GET CLOSE TO OUR 2% INFLATION TARGET.

>> PICKING UP ON YOUR F, AARON, TO GOVERNOR DeSANTIS AND THE DON'T SAY CLIMATE, IT IS PARTICULARLY SURPRISING THAT WE HAVE THAT IN FLORIDA WE UNDERSTAND WHERE HE IS COMING FROM POLITICALLY BUT IN FLORIDA OF ALL PLACES WHERE WE SEE NOT ONLY THOSE STORMS BUT RISING SEA LEVEL.

>> THE SEA LEVEL RISE IN MIAMI BEACH IS REALLY IMPACTFUL AND THEY'RE TRYING TO DEAL WITH IT AT THE CITY LEVEL BUT NOW THEY CAN'T THINK ABOUT CLIMATE AT THE STATE LEVEL WHICH IS JUST SILLY.

>> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE SHOW AGAIN YOU CAN VIEW IT ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FOR ALL OF US AT IVORY TOWER, HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.