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[MOTIVATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi everyone, Steve Adubato, and we are honored to kick off the program with the Honorable United States Congresswoman, Bonnie Watson Coleman, who represents the 12th Congressional District in New Jersey.

Congresswoman, thanks so much for being with us again.

- Oh, Steve, it's always good to be with you, and it's good to see you.

- Absolutely.

So the graphic comes up, Democracy in Danger.

There's a 2024 election that all of us know about.

Question, am I engaging, are we engaging in hyperbole, A and B?

If we are in danger, describe it.

- So let me just tell you that I had a member of my church come up and sit next to me one day and say, "May I ask you a question?"

I said, "Sure".

She said, "Should I be afraid?"

And I just said, "Yes, yes."

Our democracy is hanging in the balance here, depending upon what we do in the upcoming election.

When we hear that a potential candidate and possible president of the United States of America talks about coalescing power, all the power under their office, talks about using the independent Department of Justice to get retribution for things that he didn't like, or cases that were against him for saying that, "Yeah, I do wanna be a dictator if only for a day, so that I can build a wall and drill, drill, drill."

And he's talking about things that aren't helpful to our country and don't give us the economic prosperity and the safety and security that we need.

And so, I believe him when he says that he would try to do all of these things.

I believe him when he talks about the kind of people that he would bring into his cabinet, even if he had to do it in an acting capacity because he couldn't get something through the Senate.

I believe that there would be the Stephen Millers of the world that don't care about our democracy, don't care about the diversity of this country, do not care about everyday working families.

And I think that people don't realize that when we talk about democracy is threatened.

What does that mean when it comes to your kitchen table?

So you talk about, you know, Donald Trump and Trumpism, and even what's happening in my house in Congress from the Republican side.

And they're talking about taking away safety net things for changing them in such a way they're not no longer helpful.

- Such as?

- SNAP, social security.

- Otherwise known as food stamps, right.

- Yeah, yeah.

Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, prescription drugs, the cost for those, negotiating directly with other companies to ensure that we lower the cost of healthcare and prescriptions.

Just, it's a litany of issues, changing the way our schools teach our children.

Eliminating this whole notion of diversity and equity and inclusion on every level, clearly pointing to there ought to be a one America, and that one America ought to be white and principally ruled by white males.

- But, Congresswoman, while you make the case and people can decide for themselves how they feel about it, here's the thing that I feel we need to put on the table.

Do you believe that part of the reason that our representative democracy is in danger is because also the Democrats are about to potentially put, likely put up a candidate in the President Joe Biden, who will be 86 on the backend of his second term, and a disproportionately high number of younger people, younger African-American citizens are not drawn to the President.

And we don't engage in political prognostication or polls, but I will say this is, the question has to be asked, what are the Democrats doing to contribute to strengthening our representative democracy?

If Donald Trump is ahead in so many polls against the sitting United States President, who many question his cognitive abilities, not just now, but in a potential second term.

I know it's a loaded question Congresswoman, but please take it on.

- Well, first of all, Donald Trump is only two or three years younger than Joe Biden.

Number two, Joe Biden said he wouldn't be running if Donald Trump wasn't running.

So we know he's got enough good sense about him to offer his candidacy one more time to protect our democracy.

Number three is, irrespective of Joe Biden's age, look at the things that he's accomplished.

Look at what he's done getting us through the pandemic.

Look at what he's done in reducing access to the high cost of insulin.

Look at what he's done with chips and PAC, and the infrastructure bills that we couldn't get through under younger Republican and Democratic presidents.

Look what he did with the Recession Reduction Act.

- The Act.

- Every one of those things he did, Steve, make life better and more protective for everyday working families, so, he may.

- Will congress want a second term?

I'm sorry for interrupt, a second term?

Look, here's the question.

You make the case about specific accomplishments.

They speak for themselves, but what do you say to millions of Americans, in fact, more independents, a majority of Democrats and, obviously, the massive, the overwhelming number of Republicans question the President's cognitive abilities in a second term, not just now, but moving forward.

So talk to those.

- Well, how do you project that?

What has he done in his administration that suggests to anybody who's really looking at his accomplishments and what they mean to you in sheltering you, and feeding you, and protecting you, and educating you, that suggests that this man has any impairment of his cognitive abilities?

- Well, why do you think people think that?

- And he may stumble over words because he has a speech impediment, but he doesn't stumble over concepts.

He doesn't stumble over what he thinks is the righteous things to do for this nation.

And listen, nobody's perfect, but this man has accomplished more in the three and a half years of his administration than back there when FDR accomplished his New World and, - The New Deal, right.

- And, yeah.

And Lyndon Johnson did all the things that he did- - The Great Society.

- Yes, absolutely.

- Right.

- So let us go on his record, and let us not assume that God's gonna call him home until his work is finished.

And you know what?

I got a colleague who just buried his father.

He was 102 years old, and you know what he said to me?

He said, "Bonnie, he was 102 years old in age, but he was at all of his faculties.

He knew what he needed to know.

He was in the present."

And so is Joe Biden.

Here's our challenge.

Democrats gotta figure out how to explain all of the things that we've done that make life better, protect your interests and your rights, make sure your children get educated.

Take that burdensome student debt off of your back.

We've gotta communicate how this presidency has materialized a better world for you, and Democrats have a problem with that.

'Cause you know what?

We're always trying to explain stuff, while Republicans throw out these 32nd soundbites.

They don't have to have any relationship to reality.

Not one, but they all say it and they say it over and over and over again, and people get impressed by it.

But I'm not concerned about what the polls are saying right now.

- Okay, okay, okay.

I'm sorry to interrupt.

I just wanted, there's another topic, an important topic I wanna get to.

- Another topic?

- We're taping this program.

Well, yeah, because you have been outspoken on so many things and you've been a leader in so many areas.

But help folks understand, as of the time we're taping this program, this will be seen later.

We don't try to report what's going on in the war between Israel and Hamas right now.

However, the question of a ceasefire as we speak right now, and the date will come up on the screen.

You have been in favor of the ceasefire, what is your position and why do many of your colleagues see it differently?

- Well, I think that everybody wants to see peace as the outcome.

I think that most people wanna see a secure and independent Israel, but a secure and independent Palestinian nation as well.

I don't believe that you can continue to get there through war.

I believe that you need to engage in diplomacy, and you need to have the carrot and the stick.

Now, you asked me where the carrot and the stick is.

I don't know, I'm not the diplomat.

But I know that there's gotta be a better way than devastating a whole infrastructure, displacing a half of a population, killing tens of thousands of people, innocent children, and elderly, and other innocent folks.

I don't know the whole answer to this, but I know that if we are seeking peace, then we have to approach it in a strategic and peaceful manner.

And this continuum bombardment is not getting there.

- Lemme follow up on that.

The former ambassador, Israeli ambassador to the United States, Michael Oren, who's from New Jersey, when asked this question about a ceasefire, he said, "I wanna be clear, a ceasefire, if there is a ceasefire," and again, this, we may date ourselves on this, "a ceasefire equals Hamas wins."

What do you say to that?

- I don't understand that because I believe that Hamas will suffer if it doesn't get access to supplies that it needs.

Hamas is not stronger than Israel.

Hamas is not stronger than the world condemnation of it.

Hamas, at the end of the day, can be neutralized if we provide the kind of diplomacy and support to the innocent people in Palestine who are being held hostage by Hamas as well.

- Do you have any, is it difficult at all for you, Congresswoman, to call Hamas a terrorist organization?

- Oh, absolutely not.

Hamas is a terrorist organization, and what it did on October 7th in Israel was unthinkable.

It just challenged every sensibility that one has in terms of decency.

It was disgusting.

It was horrific, and it was something that never should have happened.

And had Israel been paying better attention, perhaps, it wouldn't have happened on that scale.

- Last question.

- Netanyahu was so busy.

But let me just say this.

- Go ahead.

I'm sorry.

- Netanyahu was so busy trying to bring the judiciary up under him, kind of Trumpism if I might say, that they did not give the prospects of a Hamas uprising the kind of attention that it needed.

- Last question, and every time we have the congresswoman, and we, there's so much to cover, but this is an important question about the US Senate race, New Jersey.

Senator Menendez, his situation speaks for itself.

The criminal process, the judicial process will play out.

You have chosen not to support First Lady Tammy Murphy for the Senate seat as we speak right now.

And you've said, "You're likely not to endorse anyone."

Why or why not?

- Well, let me tell you, I have tremendous respect for Tammy.

I think she's bright and would be a good senator.

It's not that I am not endorsing her.

I'm not endorsing anyone.

I think that we've got, at least, three good candidates in the mix.

Andy Kim, Larry Hamm, and of course, Tammy.

We also may have a fourth one who announces in January, but it's hers to announce, and I think that this is a family dispute that they need to work out.

And I just need to stand there on the sidelines, wait for the candidate to be determined because every one of them is brilliant and ready.

And so, whoever emerges as the candidate, has my 100% support.

So this is not about not endorsing Tammy who I absolutely adore.

This is about my thinking that my responsibility is to remain neutral and let everyone get their message out.

- As the Congresswoman mentions, "It's a family fight," she means the Democrats, not any of that.

- Oh, yeah.

- I know, I understand, Congresswoman.

The Honorable Congresswoman, Bonnie Watson Coleman from the 12th Congressional District.

Congresswoman, you honor us every time you join us.

Thank you so much.

- Good to see you.

Thank you for having me.

- Absolutely.

Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

To watch more Think Tank with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- We are honored to be joined by Neal Shapiro, the President and Chief Executive Officer of the WNET Group.

Good to see you, Neal.

- Good to see you, Steve.

- As we put up the website for the WNET group, tell everyone what that group is, because it involves a whole range of media operations.

- It does.

It's three broadcast stations, THIRTEEN, WLIW21, and NJPBS, as well as WORLD, Create and ALL ARTS.

So we do a lot of stuff.

- Talk to us about this.

I'm obsessed, and I think you know this, about the role of public media in our representative democracy.

"Democracy in Danger" is the graphic that'll come up.

How do you see our role in public broadcasting and particularly your role as the leader in this region, of public broadcasting as it relates to promoting, protecting our representative democracy?

- I think it's vitally important.

I think, you know, a democracy depends on an informed electorate, and that electorate can only be informed as places to go where it can get news they can trust and depend on, news without an agenda, news that is in-depth and news that gives you a range of things from international, national and local issues.

And that's, I think, what public media does extraordinarily well in this time when the country's so polarized.

And part of the reason it's so polarized is because it's so easy to surround yourself with news that you agree with.

And I think what makes public media so important is it comes to you with no agenda.

It's job is not to convince you of anything.

If anything, it's job to give you lots of different points of view.

So you make up your own mind.

And the world is such a changing place, that no matter what you may think is right today, it could be wrong tomorrow.

So getting more and different points of view and more interpretations is vitally important.

- So the whole range of programs that you go on the website to find out, and for me, national, international affairs, "Amanpour & Company", which Neal had a huge role in connecting public broadcasting in this region to CNN to make that happen.

Also, "Firing Line" with Margaret Hoover, one of my favorites.

But do this for us locally in our region.

How important is it that that for NJPBS previously NJTV, established in July 1st of 2011, largely 'cause Neal took the lead on this, the WNET Group, to make that happen so we wouldn't go black with public broadcasting.

There's a question here, the balance in your mind between local regional programming and the national international programming of public broadcasting with the WNET Group?

- Well, you know, in some ways they're obviously very different.

As great as "Amanpour" is and "NewsHour" and "Frontline", they can't cover local news and don't intend to, and so much of news is local.

So having important coverage in the state, having what you do, long in-depth interviews, having what "NJ Spotlight News" does every night, incredibly important.

The other thing that is interesting in this time is how often what happens internationally is connected locally.

So there's no better example of what's happening in Israel and Gaza right now, an international story, which has all kinds of implications on college campuses and communities and how people interpret that.

So the world's an interconnected place.

It's important to have trusted sources everywhere you go.

- Along those lines, I was having a conversation with Neal offline.

Like, we're a New Jersey-based operation.

We're trying to understand what's going on in the conflict between Israel and Hamas.

You've got the largest Palestinian population in New Jersey, a huge Jewish population in New Jersey.

To say like, "Well, it's just New Jersey."

It doesn't work that way, which is why also, by the way, check out "NJ Spotlight News".

They do a great job every night trying to understand the bigger picture and how it relates to our state of New Jersey.

Neal, you have a...

There's a public broadcasting special coming up in the new year.

We're taping in the middle of December-- - Yeah.

- 2023.

This is 2024.

Go ahead, please.

- Yeah.

It's around a book that Richard Haass wrote.

Richard Haass, as you know, former head of the Council on Foreign Relations, has advised Democrats and Republicans.

And his notion is there are 10 things that... an obligation or responsibility that every citizen has to each other to preserve democracy.

So he runs us through this thing, and he came forth because he said, you know, "I worked around the world and I never thought democracy would be in danger in our own country.

But I studied, and I've written this book because I worry that it is."

And it sings like reminding us that being civil with each other, finding trusted sources, understanding what's happening, giving back to your communities are things that are very, very important.

And there's things that every citizen can do.

And there's a tendency, I think, as we become so frightened about what we see, not just around January 6th, but the level of intensity of anger and vitriol in this country, that there are a number of ways in which people at the grassroots level can make the difference.

And you know, if you think about it, something like Mothers Against Drunk Driving, that was one woman who was upset about the tragic death of her daughter and changed the country, right?

There are ways in which individuals at a grassroots level can make great progress.

- Along those lines.

And that program, Neal, what, does it have a... What's the working title?

- It's "A Citizen's Obligation".

It's Richard...

It's Hari interviewing Richard Haass.

It will be on January 4th, I think, on PBS and you know, also will repeat it a couple times.

- Interesting.

You know, but Neal, go back to something before that I mentioned the "Amanpour & Company".

I'm huge fan of Christiane Amanpour and...

But it's not just her.

And that's the thing that strikes me is It's a group of journalists who come in and... And actually, to be super candid about it, it's influenced my thinking about what we do and having more folks with different perspectives, different ages, interviewing people.

It's "Amanpour & Company".

- That's right.

And you say-- - Talk about that.

- It's exactly right.

There are three other great journalists at different... all smart, all accomplished, but at different points in their lives.

Walter Isaacson, brilliant biographer a renaissance man who's an author and a journalist, Michelle Martin from NPR, and of course our own Hari Sreenivasan.

And the three of them always do it.

So at least one interview in the show, and Christiane does the others.

And by melding what Christiane brings and what CNN brings, frankly, a huge arsenal of international coverage combined with what we can do here, I think makes it tremendous programing.

- Along those lines, Neal, do you see this a partnership between the WNET Group and CNN?

Do you see those kinds of partnerships and collaborations between public broadcasting and other entities outside of the universe of PBS coming together to produce programming that would be much harder to produce on your own, on our own?

- Absolutely, absolutely.

I think "Amanpour & Company is a better show for both CNN and for us, because we're all involved and I think we're gonna keep trying to find different partners and ways to bring news and information to people.

But the one thing which is common about, Steve, and you know this well, is we rely on our viewers to help make it happen, right?

We're not a place, we don't have commercials.

It is why we come to you with points and say, "Please support nonprofit journalism," because it's so important.

And it does survive because our viewers support it.

- So Neal, I'm glad you mentioned money, which helps.

People go, "Do you love your work?"

And I say, I love interviewing people.

Don't love raising money.

And Neal doesn't either, but it's his job.

It's our job, any of us involved.

Here's the question.

If you go where to go all the way back, and it's probably an unfair question, Neal, about July, 2011, the creation of NJTV, which turned into NJPBS, again, check out "NJ Spotlight News" every night, You made a decision together with others, but you stepped in and said, "We're gonna do this."

Do you ever realize the impact it would have in terms of the economics of running a station in New Jersey that's largely funded privately?

- It was a bigger challenge than I thought.

It is a big challenge.

Part of that is though, what I always thought was vitally important that New Jersey not be the only state that didn't have its own public television.

- Explain to folks what that really... Like, there'd be nothing, Neal.

- There'd be nothing, right?

And you know, I think people who live in New Jersey know these sort of get dwarfed by what happens in New York and Philadelphia and that those are covered by often big commercial stations who come and go.

And there's so much important in the state that needs its own separate station.

They can do things that are important to New Jersey.

Not just news, but arts and culture and all of that needs to be preserved.

And that's what public media does.

So I thought it was very, very important, and I'm grateful that so many people did step up and help us.

But as Steve said, it is hard work and demanding and requires resources.

And in fact, we want to do more, not less.

We wanna reach people in all different platforms, not just on TV, but digitally in every way we can.

And as there are more challenges across the state, we want to be there to help you deal with those.

- Stay on the digital point, Neal.

You've been talking about this for years with us.

You don't separate broadcast from digital and other platforms to be... to distribute our content.

How much has that changed your view of being the CEO and the leader of the WNET Group and how you view programming and where it goes and who sees it and how we see it?

Not to mention how you raise money for it.

Go ahead.

- Well, the big change is, content is content.

And we didn't use to think about that, nobody did.

In the early days of media, digital was an afterthought.

They put things on the web and thought nobody would see it.

Now what we know is there are giant audiences that often different audiences.

And the way in which some people consume television because they like the linear experience of sitting down and watching it, often watching it live as one audience.

There's another audience who wants to find things and find it when they wanna see it.

And there's an audience which wants to find segments.

And sometimes they overlap and sometimes they don't.

And the important thing is we wanna reach all those audiences and help them in every platform we have.

So it's important to view it as a continuum of content over many different platforms.

- 30 seconds left.

Neal, why is what you do and what public broadcasting is, all that, why is it so personal for you?

- You know, because when I was a young boy, I remember ducking into the school library to watch the Watergate hearings.

And I thought, "Wow, democracy is on the line."

It was really a plan by somebody to subvert the Constitution.

And then we're not for some reports in the Washington Post world would be a different place.

Well, now let's look at what happened in our... where we live right now, an assault on the Capitol.

Democracy is still in danger.

And we still need journalists and we still need an informed electorate and public media has a vital role to play.

I monitor, I can be a part of it, but I so want people to realize how important this is.

As Richard Haass says, "There's no guarantee that our democracy will continue."

It's up to all of us to keep sure, keep it strong.

And that means vital media is a part of that.

- Neal Shapiro, the President and Chief Executive Officer of the WNET Group.

Thank you, Neal.

- Steve, always a pleasure.

- You got it, folks, I'm Steve Adubato, that's Neal Shapiro, and we'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] Think Tank with Steve Adubato has been a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by Kean University.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

Wells Fargo.

Veolia, Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

The New Jersey Education Association.

PSEG Foundation.

RWJBarnabas Health.

And by Johnson & Johnson.

Promotional support provided by NJ.Com.

And by ROI-NJ.

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