♪ ♪ >> Renee: KENTUCKY'S POET LAUREATE CRYSTAL WILKINSON IS A NATIONAL LUMINARY ON THE LITERARY SCENE.

THE AWARD WINNING AUTHOR OF "PERFECT BLACK" THE COLLECTION OF POEMS RELEASE THDZ YEAR AND THREE WORKS OF FICTION, THE BIRDS OF OPULENCE, WATER STREET AND BLACKBERRIES BLACKBERRIES.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT PERFECT BLACK AND HER OTHER UPCOMING WORKS WE HOPE SHE WILL DISH ON NOW ON CONNECTIONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME FOR CONNECTIONS TODAY.

I'M RENEE SHAW.

IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE JOINED BY POET AND HISTORY MAKING WRITING PHENOM CRYSTAL WILKINSON, THE 2021-2022 POET LAUREATE OF KENTUCKY GETTING NATIONAL ACCLAIM FOR HER BOOK OF POETRY CALLED "PERFECT BLACK."

IT HAS BEEN A WHILE SINCE SHE HAS BEEN ON WITH US SO I CAN'T WAIT FOR HER TO TALK ABOUT ALL THE SUCCESS SHE HAS ENJOYED THIS YEAR AND HELP TO GET HER TO DISH ON SOME NEW PROJECTS TO COME.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

GOOD TO BE BACK.

>> Renee: YOU KNOW, I LOVE EVERYTHING YOU ON AND I JUST LOVE READING, EVERY TIME ON GO ON SOCIAL MEDIA, NEW YORK TIMES IS QUOTING YOU, YOU ARE IN THE BOOK OF THE WEEK, HARRIET BOOKS IS QUOTING YOU.

ALL OF THIS GREAT SHINE, AS WE WOULD SAY, IS REALLY ON YOU RIGHT NOW AND I'M SO INCREDIBLY PROUD OF YOU AND FOR YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Renee: HOW DOES IT ALL FEEL?

>> IT FEELS GREAT.

WHEN I WAS NAMED POET LAUREATE, I DIDN'T HAVE A BOOK OF POETRY.

IT WAS SCHEDULED TO COME OUT AND I THOUGHT THIS IS MY FIRST MAYBE MY ONLY COLLECTION OF POETRY AND I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A REGIONAL BOOK THAT KENTUCKIANS WOULD LIKE IT THAT MAYBE PEOPLE IN RURAL KENTUCKY, APPALACHIA, BUT I DID NOT EXPECT IT TO BE A A NATIONAL SUCCESS.

I HAVE BEEN REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THAT.

>> Renee: WHY DO YOU THINK IT CAUGHT ON?

IS IT THE TIMES WE ARE?

WILL IN ARE ARE IN?

THE MIDDLE SECTION FTS BOOK, THE FIRST SECTION OF THE BOOK IS ABOUT BLACK GIRLHOOD.

IT EXPLORES GIRLHOOD, PARTICULAR WILL I MY GIRLHOOD GROWING UP IN RURAL KENTUCKY.

AND THE MIDDLE SECTION DEALS WITH SOME POLITICAL ISSUES AND SO I THINK THAT PERHAPS THAT MIDDLE SECTION IS WHAT GOT ATTENTION AND SO MUCH OF THE GOOD TROUBLE THAT PEOPLE ARE IN IS DONE BY A LOT OF URBAN PEOPLE OR DEEP SOUTHERNERS BUT YOU DON'T THINK OF KENTUCKY BEING POLITICIZED AS MUCH.

WE HAVE GOTTEN A LOT OF ATTENTION WITH THE GOOD WORK AROUND BRIEON ATAYLOR'S DEATH.

SO I THINK ALL OF THAT WAS PART OF WHY.

>> Renee: CREATED A PERFECT SCENARIO.

I DO LIKE HOW NICKI FINNEY DOES THE FORWARD, WHICH I MEAN, COME ON NOW.

YOU KNOW THAT YOU GUY-- YOU GUYS ARE GOOD FRIENDS.

YOU'VE KNOWN EACH OTHER 30 YEARS?

>> YES.

>> Renee: IT PROBABLY WASN'T MUCH OF AN ASK.

JUST NICKI, JUST DO THIS, RIGHT.

HOW DOES THAT COME ABOUT?

>> I ASKED HER AND SHE IS ALWAYS REALLY BUSY.

WE ARE REALLY GOOD FRIENDS AND I HATE TO ASK HER FOR ANY FAVORS, BUT THEY ASKED WHO WOULD I LIKE TO DO THE FORWARD AND I SKIPPED ALL AROUND NICKI AND THEY KEPT SAYING WHAT ABOUT NICKI.

I WAS LIKE SHE'S BUSY AND SHE IS A FRIEND.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A GOOD IDEA.

BEFORE I FINISHED THE SENTENCE, SHE SAID YES WHEN I ASKED HER.

>> Renee: OF COURSE SHE WOULD.

SHE SAID I HAVE KNOWN CRYSTAL FOR OVER 30 YEARS AND WE FIRST MET WHEN MY BRAND NEW WRITING JOB BROUGHT ME TO HER HOME COUNTY IN CENTRAL KENTUCKY IN 1989.

MY SOUTH CAROLINA LIVE OAKS, THIS IS TYPICAL OF NICKI FINNEY.

MY SOUTH CAROLINA LIVE OAKS WERE NOT THE SAME AS HER GANGLY KENTUCKY CHESTNUTS BUT WE EASILY RECOGNIZED THE STORIES THAT HELD US TOGETHER AS WOMEN JUST BEGINNING OUR CREATIVE LIFE PATH.

WE WEREN'T GIRLS TOGETHER IN ANY ONE PHYSICAL SPACE BUT WE WERE GIRLS WHO BECAME THE WOMEN WE BECAME BECAUSE OF SHARED CULTURAL AND GEOGRAPHICAL MEMORIES.

SHE HAS A PENCHANT FOR WORDS JUST LIKE YOU DO AND WHEN YOU HEAR HER CONNECT YOU ALL IN SUCH A WAY THAT MAYBE YOU DIDN'T GROW UP TOGETHER BUT YOUR SHARED EXPERIENCES WERE LIKE YOU WERE IN THE PHYSICAL SPACES TOGETHER.

>> IT'S WONDERFUL AND NICKI HAS BEEN A FRIEND AND A LITERARY COMPANION.

WE'VE WRITTEN TOGETHER EVEN THOUGH SHE IS BACK IN HER HOME OF SOUTH CAROLINA, WE TALK A COUPLE TIMES A WEEK AND WE SHARE GOOD FOOD, ALL THOSE REGIONAL THINGS.

SHE IS MORE DEEP SOUTH THAN WHERE WE ARE HERE IN CENTRAL KENTUCKY, BUT SIMILAR GROWING UP EXPERIENCES.

WE BOTH ARE FULL OF GRANDMOTHER LOVE, TOO.

>> Renee: I LOVE HOW YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR GRANDMOTHER AND HOW ALL OF THESE PEOPLE ARE KIND OF EMBODIED IN THEMES AND THE WAY YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR CHILDHOOD.

YOU GREW UP IN CASEY COUNTY, KENTUCKY AND THAT WERE YOU PROBABLY ONE OF TWO BLACK FAMILIES IN THAT AREA AT THE TIME.

I TELL THE STORY AND IT'S TRUE.

JUST ABOUT EVERYONE I KNEW WHO WAS BLACK WAS A RELATIVE UP UNTIL HIGH SCHOOL, LATE HIGH SCHOOL BEFORE I WENT TO COLLEGE.

>> Renee: AND THAT'S KIND OF MY EXPERIENCE AS WELL, GROWING UP IN NORTHERN MIDDLE TENNESSEE RURAL AREA.

YOU'VE WRITTEN THAT YOU LIVED AN ENCHANTED CHILDHOOD AND THAT YOUR GRAND PARENTS GAVE YOU THE FREEDOM TO EXPLORE THE COUNTRY SIDE AND TO WRITE AND TO DREAM AND DISCOVER.

DID THEY SEE THE CRYSTAL WILKINSON THAT WE SEE?

DID THEY SEE THAT IN YOU GROWING UP?

>> I THINK, PARTICULARLY MY GRANDMOTHER SAW A CRYSTAL WILKINSON.

I THINK SHE, ALL THOSE THINGS SHE WANTED TO DO SHE SORT OF PUT UP ON ME, LIKE HER CHILDREN WERE ALREADY GROWN BY THE TIME I CAME INTO THE HOUSEHOLD.

SO SHE HAD THIS-- SHE WANTED TO BE A STEEMP AND SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT SHE WANTED ME TO DO.

TO BE A SCHOOLTEACHER AND SHE ALSO SAW THAT I LOVED READING AND WRITING SO SHE DID VERY DEARLY WANTED ME TO DO SOMETHING WITH THAT.

>> Renee: A REVIEW FROM HARRIET BOOKS SAYS ONE OF HER HO PETTIC MOODS IS TRANSLATING HER.

HER FATHER A CITY, HER GRANDMOTHER A LIFE BOAT.

PRINCE A RESPITE.

BEYOND THE SYMBOLIC VALUES, THERE MAY BE AN ARGUMENT ABOUT BLACK AN TOLLING AND PERFECTION.

ONE OF-- PERFECT BLACK, I WANT YOU TO TELL US WHAT THE TITLE MEANS AND HOW THAT RESONATES OR HOW YOU HOPE IT WILL RESONATE WITH READERS ONE OF THE THINGS I ALWAYS SAY IS AS A FAT BLACK RURAL GIRL IN AN ALL WHITE AREA, I ALWAYS THOUGHT PERFECTION WAS SOMETHING OUTSIDE MYSELF.

SO WHETHER I TITLED THIS BOOK AND TRY TO HAVE MY SPINE STRAIGHT THAT WHY CAN'T A FAT BLACK GIRL BE PERFECT, JUST THE WAY SHE IS.

AND SO MY HOPE IS THAT THAT TITLE, EVEN THOUGH IT TOOK ME ALL THESE YEARS TO BECOME A WOMAN BEFORE I COULD BE CONFIDENT IN MY BODY AND CONFIDENT IN MY SKIN AND MY UPBRINGING, I HOPE THERE IS A YOUNG GIRL SOMEWHERE WHO IS 12, 13 OR EVEN YOUNGER THAT CAN SEE THAT BOOK, SEE THAT TITLE, READ THE POEMS AND BE CONFIDENT IN HERSELF.

>> Renee: LIKE BELL HOOKS AND BONE BLACK OR SISTERS OF THE YAM.

>> YEAH.

>> Renee: WHEN I WAS COMING UP IN COLLEGE, THAT WAS MY WHOLE, TALK ABOUT TRANSFIGURATION WHEN I READ THAT BOOK AND SAW MYSELF.

YOU THINK ABOUT WHEN YOU GROW UP IN A WHO MOJ GIST-- HOMOGENOUS AREA WHERE YOU ARE TOM ONE IN THE ROOM, YOU CAN SOMETIMES HAVE A LOVE-HATE RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR HOMESTEAD.

HOW DO YOU LOOK AT CASEY COUNTY, OR APPALACHIA?

IS IT LOVE-HATE OR ONE MORE THAN THE OTHER?

>> I THINK I ROMANTICIZE THE GOOD PARTS TO SOME EXTENT, BUT I ALSO CLAIM AND RECLAIM IT AS MINE, RIGHT?

I WON'T LET SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED TO ME OR SOME OF THE THINGS THAT STILL HAPPEN IN AND AROUND MY BELOVED COUNTY AFFECT HOW I THINK ABOUT IT MY SINGLE FAMILY HAS LIVED ON THAT LAND IN THAT SAME COUNTY SINCE SLAVERY, REALLY BEFORE SLAVERY IF YOU COUNT THE WHITE ANCESTORS SO I FIGURE IT'S MINE AS MUCH AS IT IS ANYONE ELSES SO I'M GOING TO CLAIM IT.

I'M GOING TO RECLAIM IT AND I'M GOING TO LOVE IT AND, YOU KNOW, A FEW PEOPLE MAKING RACIST REMARKS IS NOT GOING TO TAKE IT AWAY FROM ME.

>> Renee: I'M SURE THEY'RE PROUD OF YOU.

PEOPLE LIKE JOHNNY P. IN THIS BOOK.

>> THEY ARE.

I GET LOTS OF LOVE FROM HOME THEY'RE PLANNING A CRYSTAL WILKINSON DAY NEXT YEAR AND SO, YEAH I'VE DONE SEVERAL VISITS TO THE LIBRARY WHERE MY FIRST JOB WAS THE COUNTY LIBRARY.

I HAVE BEEN THERE SEVERAL TILES AND IT'S WONDERFUL TO GO BACK I LOVE GOING HOME.

>> Renee: I SHOULD MENTION ONE OF YOUR OTHER JOBS WAS YOU WORKED AT THE "HERALD-LEADER" WHICH WE NEVER TALKED ABOUT.

YOU GOT A DEGREE IN JOURNALISM AND THAT WAS YOUR FIRST JOB OUT OF SCHOOL.

WHAT DID YOU DO THERE?

>> I WAS A NEWS ASSISTANT SO A LOT OF ASSISTING THE REPORTERS.

I WAS NEVER A REPORTER.

BUT I DID WRITE OBITS AND SOME OF THE SHORT THINGS THAT WOULD COME INTO THE NEWS DESK.

WHAT WAS IT?

DID YOU REALLY I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THIS NEWS BUSINESS, WAS THERE ANOTHER LURE, FICTION THERE WAS MORE FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION AND LIBERTY WITH THINGS.

IS THAT WHAT PULLED YOU AWAY FROM THAT.

>> I THINK HAD I GROWN UP DIFFERENTLY, MY GRANDPARENTS WERE NOT EDUCATED IN ANY KIND OF GREAT WAY.

I MEAN MY GRANDFATHER WENT TO THE THIRD GRADE.

MY GRANDMOTHER HAD AN EIGHTH GRADE EDUCATION AND WANTED TO GO TO THE COLORED TEACHERS COLLEGE IN FRANKFORT AND HER PARENTS WOULD NOT LET HER.

SO, WHEN WE GOT INTO THE COUNSELORS OFFICE WHEN IT WAS TIME FOR ME TO GO TO COLLEGE, MY GRANDMOTHER KEPT SAYING-- AND I WAS VERY, VERY SHY.

MY GRANDMOTHER KEPT SAYING SHE SURE DOES LOVE TO WRITE.

AND THEY SAID WELL MAYBE WE SHOULD PUT DOWN JOURNALISM AND I WAS VERY SHY.

I LET THEM SPEAK ABOUT ME AS IF I WASN'T THERE.

I DID WHATEVER THEY SAID BUT I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE MAJORED IN ENGLISH TO BEGIN WITH I WAS WAY TOO SHY TO BE A JOURNALIST.

MY FIRST NEWS STORY I MADE UP BECAUSE I WAS TOO PET ARE I FIED TO GO AND DO THE INTERVIEW.

SO I MADE THE INTERVIEW UP.

SO MY A WENT TO AN EF WHEN I CONFESSED.

>> Renee: YOU DID CONFESS.

>> BUT I FINISHED MY JOURNALISM DEGREE AND I LOVED WORKING IN THAT FIELD BUT EVEN WHEN I GRADUATED FROM COLLEGE, I NEVER REALLY SAW MYSELF DOING THE ACTIVE WORK OF JOURNALISM SO IT TURNED INTO PUBLIC RELATIONS FIRST: IT WAS A LITTLE ABOUT IT EASIER TO WRITE SOMEONE ELSE'S SPEECH BUT I ALWAYS WROTE CREATIVELY ON THE SIDE, I JUST KEPT IT TO MYSELF.

I HAD POEMS AND STORIES, NOVELS I HAD STARTED DO YOU STILL THINK OF YOURSELF AS SHY.

>> YES EVEN THOUGH THAT'S WHAT I DO YOU ARE TEACHING, YOU ARE SPEAKING.

YOU ARE EVERYWHERE BUT I SAY TO FOLKS, SHYNESS AND INTROVERSION ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS AND THAT NEITHER ONE OF THEM HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH AMBITION, OR YOUR GOAL SO WHATEVER IT IS YOU WANT TO PURSUE BECAUSE YOU MAY BE SHY DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GO THERE.

>> I'VE ALWAYS WORKED, I GUESS, WITH IT AND SOMETIMES AGAINST IT BECAUSE I'VE ALWAYS BEEN VERY SHY, ALWAYS BEEN INTROVERTED.

I'M BOTH AND SO I REMEMBER GOING FROM HIGH SCHOOL TO COLLEGE, EVEN BACK THEN I WAS WORKING ON IT BECAUSE THE FIRST THING I CHALLENGED MYSELF TO DO WAS TO TAKE A SPEECH CLASS AND I NEARLY FAINTED... >> PANIC ATTACKS.

IT WAS INSANE BECAUSE THAT'S HOW INTROVERTED I WAS SO THAT WAS SORT OF THE FIRST STEP IN SORT OF PUSHING MYSELF BEYOND NOT LETTING THAT BE A LIMITATION.

>> Renee: AND TO BE NOW THE POET LAUREATE OF KENTUCKY WHERE YOU ARE IN HIGH DEMAND FOR INTERVIEWS, YOU ARE NOT HAVING TO WRITE ABOUT THE INTERVIEW, YOU ARE HAVING TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.

I MEAN TALK ABOUT FEAR COMING INTO A DIFFERENT SPACE, RIGHT, AND MANIFESTING IN A POSITIVE WAY AND AS A DRIVER FOR GOOD AND FOR FULLNESS OF SELF YOU ARE INTO WHO YOU ARE WHICH IS A REALLY GREAT MESSAGE FOR BLACK WOMEN OR ANY WOMAN.

>> YEAH, THERE IS NO LIMITATIONS TO AMBITION, NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK STOPS YOU BECAUSE PEOPLE TELL ME ALL THE TIME AND I LOVE TO TALK TO YOUNG PEOPLE ABOUT THIS WHO SAY I COULD NEVER DO WHAT YOU ARE DOING OR EVEN IN MY CLASSES WHEN I HAVE THE STUDENT WHO IS SHY, WHO IS AFRAID TO READ THEIR WORK ALOUD.

I SEE MYSELF THERE.

AND SO.

>> Renee: ARE YOU MORE SYMPATHETIC TO THAT STUDENT.

>> YEAH, I AM AND I TRY TO ENCOURAGE THEM AND TELL THEM MY STORY AND USUALLY IT WORKS.

BY THE END THEY'RE WILLING TO SHARE SOME OF WHAT THEY'VE WRITTEN.

>> Renee: AND THEY PROBABLY SENSE THAT'S PART OF YOUR PERSONALITY AS WELL AND MAYBE THEY OPEN UP EVEN MORE KNOWING YOU WON'T COME WITH A LOT OF JUDGMENT, THAT YOU ARE MORE EMPATHETIC TO THEM HOW MEANINGFUL IS TEACHING TO YOU, TO BE ABLE TO WRITE AND THEN TO BE ABLE TO TEACH?

>> I LOVE TEACHING.

I ALWAYS HAVE SINCE I STARTED DOING IT AND THERE IS SOMETHING WONDERFUL ABOUT, YOU-- I BELIEVE THAT LEARNING, ESPECIALLY LEARNING WRITING IS AUTO DIE DAT DICK, A BIG PART OF IT IS SELF TAUGHT THAT HAVE YOU TO, WHATEVER INFORMATION I HAVE, THE STUDENT HAS TO MEET ME HALFWAY F I'M TEACHING A WORKSHOP OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

I LOVE TO SEE THE MOMENT OF WHEN SOMETHING, YOU CAN SEE IT, AND OF COURSE YOU CAN SEE IT IN THEIR WORK BUT YOU CAN ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY SEE IT.

>> Renee: IN THE PERSON,.

>> IN THEIR BODY, IN THEIR FACE WHEN THE LIGHT BULB GOES OFF AND YOU SEE THE SHIFT FROM UNKNOWING TO KNOWING.

I JUST LOVE THAT.

>> Renee: I'M SURE THAT'S INSPIRING AND KEEPS GOING ON BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THOSE-- A LOT OF OTHER THINGS IN ACADEMIA THAT MAY NOT BE SO PLEASANT TO DEAL WITH BUT THAT'S CERTAINLY A SHINING PART OF IT.

I ALWAYS LIKE TO HEAR YOU READ AND WOULD I LOVE FOR YOU TO PICK YOUR OWN SELECTION FROM "PERFECT BLACK" TO SHARE WITH US.

>> I WOULD BE HAPPY TO.

THIS IS A HOME THAT I WROTE FOR MY GRANDFATHER SILAS WILKINSON, AND HE WAS A TOBACCO FARMER AND SO THIS IS AN ODE TO TOBACCO.

OH TOBACCO, YOU ARE THE WARM BURNT SIENNA OF MY GRANDFATHER'S SKIN, SOFT LIKE RIPE LEATHER.

I CANNOT SEE YOU ANY OTHER WAY BUT AS A FARMER'S FINEST CROP.

YOU ARE KENTUCKY TILLER'S LIVELIHOOD.

YOU WERE SCHOOL CLOTHES IN AUGUST, THE TURKEY AT THANKSGIVING CHRISTMAS WITH ALL THE TRIMMINGS.

I CLOSE MY EYES, SEE YOU TALL, STATELY GREEN LINE UP IN ROWS, SEE SWEAT SEEPING THROUGH GRANDFATHER'S SHIRT AS HE FATHERED YOU FIRST.

YOU WERE PROTECTED BY HIM, SOMETIMES EVEN MORE THAN ANY OTHER THING THAT ROOTED IN OUR EARTH.

JUST LIKE FAMILY YOU WERE CODDLE AND COAXED INTO MAKING HIM PROUD.

SPREAD OUT FOR MIGHTS, YOU WERE THE ONLY PRETTY THING HE KNEW WHEN I THINK OF YOU AT THE EDGE OF WINTER, I SEE YOU BROWN, WRINKLED LIKE GRANDADDY'S SKIN.

A 10-YEAR-OLD ME PLAYS IN THE SHADOWS OF THE STRIPPING ROOM, THE WOOD STOVE BERNS CALLOUSED HANDS TWIST THROUGH YOUR LEAVES.

GRANDADDY SMILES, NODS AT ME WHEN HE THINKS I'M NOT LOOKING.

YOU ARE PRETTY, EMBRAIDED LINED UP IN ROWS LIKE A ROOMFUL OF BROWN GIRLS WITH SKIRTS HOOPED OUT FOR DANCING.

>> THAT'S BEAUTIFUL.

HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE YOU TO CRAFT A POEM LIKE THAT.

>> SOMETIMES IT COMES OUT QUICKLY OR A DRAFT DOES.

THAT PARTICULAR POEM CAME FROM THREE OR FOUR WORDS I WAS SITTING IN ON A LECTURE.

SOMEONE WAS LECTURING TEACHERS ABOUT HOW TO TEACH WRITING AND I WAS WORKING AT THE CARNEGIE CENTER AT THE TIME AND THE MAN SAID TOBACCO, HAY, SWEAT.

LOVE MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE FOURTH ONE.

AND I WROTE THAT POEM, THE FIRST DRAFT OF THAT POEM IMMEDIATELY.

OTHER POEMS, LIKE THERE ARE SEVERAL POEMS IN THE BOOK HAVE TAKEN YEARS.

I KEEP THESE LARGE JOURNALS AND I DO THEM ON MY PHONE AND ON THE COMPUTER NOW BUT I HAVE LOTS OF JOURNALS WHERE I STARTED A POEM AND IT MAY TAKE ME FIVE, SOMETIMES 10 YEARS TO FINISH IT.

>> Renee: IS THAT BECAUSE OF YOUR THINKING ABOUT THE POEM OR JUST THE ENVIRONMENT OF THE TIMES?

WHAT IS IT THAT FIGURES INTO THE TIMEFRAME.

>> I DO THE SAME THING WITH MY FICTION.

THERE IS A GERM OR SEED OF AN IDEA AND I RIGHT PART OF IT DOWN AND I'LL COME TO IT EVERY SO OFTEN, ADD A LITTLE MORE, TAKE SOMETHING AWAY OR SAY IT'S STILL NOT WORKING.

I DON'T BELIEVE IN WRITERS BLOCK.

SO WHEN I'M IN THE MIDDLE OF A PROJECT, I GO BACK AND DABBLE ON THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN STAGNANT FOR YEARS A STORY OF MINE THAT WON AN O'HENRY AWARD, I THINK I WORKED ON IT FOR 12 YEARS.

>> Renee: HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN IT'S FINISHED?

>> NEVER FOR ME.

IT'S JUST FINISHED ENOUGH TO SEND OUT AND IT FEELS COMPLETE AT THE TIME BUT EVEN WHEN I'M READING FROM MY PUBLISHED NOVELS, I'LL SEE SOMETIMES PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE WITH THE BOOK WHETHER I'M GIVING A READING AND GO... >> Renee: THEY CAN'T FIND IT ON THE PAGE.

>> BECAUSE THE BOOK I'M READING FROM HAS BEEN SCRATCHED OUT AND CHANGED AND EDITED EVEN AFTER IT IS PUBLISHED.

>> Renee: WOULD LOVE TO SEE WHAT THE THANKS WOULD BE ANOTHER THING ABOUT THIS BOOK COLLECTION OF POETRY ILLUSTRATED BY YOUR HUSBAND.

HE IS AN AMAZING ARTIST.

SO HOW FUN WAS THIS FOR YOU TWO TO COLLABORATE ON IT TOGETHER?

>> IT WAS FUN.

IT WAS A GREAT THING TO DO DURING THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC.

WE WERE WORKING ON IT AND WE HAVE DESKS IN OPPOSITE ROOMS OF THE HOUSE AND I WAS DELIGHTED THAT THE PRESS SAID THAT I COULD WORK WITH HIM AND SOME OF THE PIECES-- THE THING ABOUT THE IMAGES IN THE BOOK IS THAT THEY SORT OF HAVE A CONVERSATION OF THEIR OWN.

IT'S NOT ILLUSTRATION PROPER SO SOMETIMES THE IMAGES ARE SPEAKING TO EACH OTHER THROUGH SEVERAL POEMS OR SOMETIMES IT'S SPEAKING TO A POEM THAT'S FIVE PAGES AWAY, BUT THE IMAGES CREATE THIS CONVERSATION.

SOMETIMES WITH THEMSELVES AND SOMETIMES WITH THE WORDS.

SOME OF IT WAS INTENTIONAL WHEN I WOULD SAY I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO HAVE A WOMAN HERE STANDING IN WATER AND HE WOULD GO AND CREATE SOMETHING OR I WOULD SAY I REALLY LIKE THE PIECE YOU KNOW, FOIFER FOR THE COVER, I REALLY LIKE THAT PIECE THAT YOU HAD WITH THE TREE COMING OUT OF THE WOMAN'S BODY.

>> Renee: HAD HE READ SOME OF THE POEMS BEFORE HE DID THE ILLUSTRATIONS.

>> YEAH.

>> Renee: I DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU WERE TALKING AT THE SAME TIME, I AM THINKING OF THIS AND I'M ALMOST THERE, YOU KNOW, GO FORTH.

>> HE HAD READ MOST OF THE POEMS AT SOME POINT OVER THE YEARS AND THEN IF HE HADN'T READ THEM, I WOULD SOMETIMES DO A LITTLE READING AND I WOULD READ A POEM TO HIM AND SAY WHAT COMES TO MIND FOR THAT.

HE IS QUIETER EVEN THAN I AM SO HE WOULD GET QUIET, TURN WITH HIS PEN AND START DRAWING.

>> Renee: WHEN SOMEONE IS READING AND THERE IS AN ILLUSTRATION, I WISH I WOULD HAVE DONE THIS.

AND IN MY BOOK I HAVE THE ILLUSTRATION LOOKING THIS WAY.

IS HE AS PICKY AS YOU ARE ABOUT THAT?

>> HE IS ABOUT HIS ART, YEAH.

>> Renee: LET'S TALK ABOUT SOMETHING NEW COMING UP.

PRAISE SONG FOR THE KITCHEN GHOST.

A CULINARY MEMOIR GOING TO COME OUT IN 2023.

TELL US ABOUT THIS.

>> THIS IS THE NEXT BIG EXCITING THING FOR ME.

I HAVE NEVER HAD A BOOK WERE THE BIG PRESSES SOY THAT'S REALLY EXCITING TO BE WORKING WITH PENGUIN, RANDOM HOUSE ON THIS HOUSE AND THE WAY IT CAME ABOUT AND, YOU KNOW RNLINGS HOW MUCH THEY'VE REALLY INVESTED IN IT.

FRANCIS LAMB, WHO IS ON NPR, THE SPLENDID TABLE IS MY EDITOR.

>> Renee: THAT'S AWESOME.

>> SO IT'S REALLY FANTASTIC AS FAR AS THE PROFESSIONAL PART OF IT AND THEN ARTISTICALLY AND PERSONALLY, IT MEANS A LOT TO ME BECAUSE IT IS MY CULINARY HERITAGE.

IT IS TRACING MY ANCESTRY BEGINNING WITH AGGIE OF COLOR BORN IN 1795 AS AN ENSLAVED CHILD IN VIRGINIA AND WHO WAS BROUGHT TO KENTUCKY WITH HER OWNERS IN 1808 AND FROM HER CAME THE REST OF MY FAMILY SO I WAS ABLE TO TRACE HER THERE IS SOME IMAGINING.

I HAVE DONE RESEARCH AND PAIRED IT WITH A BLEND OF FICTION AND NON-FICTION AND ALL THE WAY TO MY CHILDREN.

>> DO YOU INVOKE YOUR GRANDMOTHER IN THIS AS WELL.

>> THERE IS YES.

>> THERE IS NEVER GOING TO BE A WORK THAT IS AT LEAST NOT INSPIRED BY HIM OR YOUR GRANDFATHER.

>> THAT'S TRUE.

PEOPLE LIKE THEM ARE AT THE CENTER OF EVERYTHING I WRITE.

>> Renee: WHO INSPIRES YOU ON THE LITERARY SCENE OTHER THAN MAYBE SOME OF YOUR FELLOW APPALACHIN POETS.

WHO DO YOU READ?

>> I READ EVERYBODY AND READ REALLY WIDELY.

I'M FOND OF MICHAEL ANDACHI.

HE WROTE THE ENGLISH PATIENT.

I LOVE HIS QUIRKY OBSCURE BOOKS, TONY MOTHER SON IS SOMEONE-- TONI MORRISON IS SOMEONE THAT I LOVE AND KENTUCKY'S OWN GAIL JONES IS AN ABSOLUTE FAVORITE.

SHE WAS THE FIRST WRITER, SHE IS FROM WILLFORD COUNTY.

GREW NEWSPAPER THAT AREA AND SHE IS THE FIRST WRITER THAT, WHERE I COULD SEE MYSELF COMPLETELY.

THERE ARE WONDERFUL WRITERS LIKE EARNEST GAINS.

I WAS A BIG FAN OF HIS.

THE FIRST TIME I SAW IN AN INTIMATE WAY, RURAL BLACK PEOPLE ON THE PAGE EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE FROM LOUISIANA: IN GAIL JONES' WORK, I COULD HEAR MY AK ACCENT.

I COULD SEE VERSAILLES.

I COULD SEE MENTIONS OF HAZARD.

I COULD SEE LEXINGTON IN HER WORK.

>> Renee: HAVE YOU MET HER?

>> I HAVEN'T.

>> Renee: I KNOW SHE IS, TOO, IS PERHAPS INTROVERTED AND I'VE READ HER WORK AS WELL AND WOULD I LOVE TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SIT WITH HER AND TO JUST UNDERSTAND HOW THE PROCESS AND EVOLUTION OF HER WRITING.

I THINK ABOUT THE INFLUENCE THAT APPALACHIN POETS HAVE HAD ON THE KENTUCKY LITERARY LANDSCAPE HOW DO YOU ASSESS THAT NOW FROM THE TIME YOU STARTED SO MANY YEARS AGO.

>> I THINK IT HELPED MANY OF US COME OUT AS WRITERS.

THERE IS A TIME PERIOD, A WHOLE DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE, I THINK, FOR THE MEN, THE MEN TALK ABOUT ALL THE TIME HOW IT WAS UNCOOL FOR BLACK MAN TO BE WRITING POETRY IN GENERAL AND SO THAT THEY WOULD, YOU KNOW, THEY ALL PLAYED SPORTS AND THEY WOULD GIVE EACH OTHER DAP AND HIDE IN THE BACK AND WOO WRITE POETRY.

BUT FOR MANY OF US, THE WOMEN, THERE WERE THINGS SIMILAR.

WE ALL HAD JOBS, SOME OF US HAD CHILDREN.

WE WERE TRYING TO THINK NICKI WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO WAS AN ACCOMPLISHED WRITER ALREADY AND REST OF US WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO HE WANTED TO BE.

SO IT VERY MUCH HELPED ME BECOME WHO I WANTED TO BE.

>> Renee: AND NOW YOU ARE IN THE ROLE OF MENTOR, LIKE NICKI WAS, PERHAPS, TO YOU ALL.

WELL, THE COLLECTION OF POEMS CALLED "PERFECT BLACK," WE HOPE YOU'LL PICK THAT UP AND WE CAN'T WAIT FOR 2023 FOR YOUR NEXT WORK.

CRYSTAL WILKINSON.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

CONTINUED SUCCESS MY FRIEND AND THANK YOU FOR WATCHING THIS EDITION OF CONNECTIONS.

I'M RENEE SHAW.

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