May is mental Health Awareness Month and a Kentucky leader of a national group wants to make sure that we all >> get a checkup from the neck up.

Marci Timmerman of mental Health America of Kentucky joins us to talk about that and much more.

That's now on connections.

Thank you for joining us for connections today.

I'm Renee Shaw.

You know, this topic of mental health is something that KET has been dedicated to talking about for years now.

You can go back online and watch our six-part series called You Are not alone about youth mental health, which we hope will help teachers.

>> Educators, parents and children understand that it's okay to not be OK and ambassador for that message is our guest today.

Miss Marci Timmerman, a good friend who's with mental health of America of Kentucky and she is doing great work and advocacy not education.

All of the things that you're doing to really reduce stigma to help expand access to treatment and to change laws that further stigmatize those who deal with mental wellness issues.

It's good to see.

Marci, thanks for having me.

Well, you know, not always shows on the month that there's a national recognition.

I feel like sometimes that cheapens it.

How do you feel about that?

Do you feel like that there?

There is some deserve attention that the media puts on this and you walk the mat or do you wish we spread the love out the other 11 months of the year?

I would say definitely welcome mat.

You know, we have our tool kits that come out.

Every May is mental health month and being able to talk about the material and those and the borough push.

>> Really seems to draw even more people to us, which is a wonderful thing.

>> Yeah.

So at the time that we taped our discussion on the Thursday before the Sunday, Aaron, we learned this morning, but the means by which Naomi John died died by suicide.

And that was it was self-inflicted gunshot wound.

And I know that mental health advocates.

>> Our little leery and weary of media disclosure of the means by which somebody died by suicide.

Why?

>> There's always a concern about copycats about people.

I'm taking that information and doing it themselves, We're not to say that talking about suicide, create suicide.

It doesn't, but sometimes of someone's already kind of going that direction.

Maybe they would have chosen a less lethal means and we could have helped them either.

Hopefully before or, you know, if they did something that was less lethal automatically, we could have maybe intervene medically.

>> Yeah, I think it's interesting because they're statistically we know that women, young girls who died by suicide are using more lethal mains such as firearms Doe.

What's the explanation for that?

>> A lot of times we feel like it's actually just the accessibility of them.

All right there in the home.

And we to get to counter that.

We want people to have, you know, gun safes, get a trigger lock, those kinds of things gift is somebody that barrier that just one second decision can turn into a 5 0nd decision high.

And that can be that and the difference.

Yeah.

>> We know.

And that misjudged head openly discussed her mental health struggles for many years and many people wonder at age.

76 with all the means by which she had resources available to her being very well situated financially and and being noted notable that will have if it happens to her.

Then none of us perhaps our immune.

And I think that's somewhat true.

I mean, you know, we look around ourselves and we know that people die by suicide every day.

You know, we lose 22 veterans a day that way.

I'm just a poor one stat out of my head.

unfortunately it can happen.

>> But the important things that we want to talk about, our kind of the proactive ways to make it not happen.

And and making sure that people don't feel alone.

I find that celebrities a lot of times really do feel very isolated and alone.

Despite all the people around them every day, they don't have a lot of authentic conversations.

And that's really what we try to address.

And I mental health first aid class.

How to start those awkward, an authentic conversations with people and build more authentic relationships.

Yeah, language is important.

I want to make at that point.

But I also thought it was very courageous and honorable of the daughters when he misjudged first passed away by saying that she died from mental illness.

>> How did that strike you?

>> A lot of us were like, okay.

What did she die by suicide?

And that should just die extra things.

We do know people with mental illness died 10 years.

You younger, then their average counterpart, some severe mental illness system, the medications or reason, you maybe not being able to to take care of your physical health the same way, those kinds of things.

Sometimes those physical concerns are overlooked because you have a mental health issue for lots of good reasons and bad reasons.

So we were all a little bit confused.

I think a lot of us were like, yeah, you for bringing mental illness to the point, but also like what really happened.

So it's in some ways it's probably better to know yeah, but language.

So you'll hear us say died by suicide and not commit suicide.

Why is that an important distinction?

Well, that word commit has so much negative connotation, right?

It really came about because people thought it was a son to die by suicide.

People thought it was a crime and it was a crime.

If you didn't actually succeed in your suicide, you would have been jailed back in medieval times.

Even so, you know, we really want to walk away from that negative connotation.

Suicide is an unfortunate thing that happens.

And, yes, it's very negative.

Don't get us wrong that way.

But it happens for a lot of different factors and separating those out better right.

And and I think, you know, you, those of us on the outside looking in, we think here, somebody who has a lot of money and has all of this and yet that could not provide that level of for >> Mental illness is treatable.

Yeah, but we understand from Hearst Journey in her story that that wasn't successful for her.

How often is that the case?

>> We find medications and therapy and other options.

You know, out there available.

>> They have a varying amount of I want to make sure folks are hearing hope for me.

Yes, recovery happens.

>> Recovery looks different for other people.

Unfortunately, it seems like maybe misjudged had a setback of some sort and didn't have the right to locks to help her deal with that setback is my guess right?

Obviously I'm guessing I don't know her personally and on our situation.

But yeah, I think a lot of folks when we see these kinds of things, it is easier to get that kind of fatalistic feel.

And we really want make sure folks know recovery does happen.

There for every one person who dies by suicide.

There's easily 10, 15, making up numbers.

But I know them personally who are doing well and for whom that therapy works by itself, even and before we get to the more hopeful message yet.

>> We do know that people who are family and friends of those who died by suicide for every person who dies by suicide.

It affects I-8 to 15 people.

I think Doctor Melinda, Melinda Moore at eastern Kentucky University who we've had on before.

He's talked about this kind of ripple effect of who it impacts and we need to be really aware of the trauma may be of secondary trauma that those who love a person who dies by suicide are also enduring.

Yeah, I hope that will have folks that will reach out if you need some resources on how to handle this, even within your family.

People feel like they know the Jets, They really did or not right.

Things like this are good reason to reach out for resources and get kind of brushed up.

Yeah.

On your own and also.

>> You know, I that I want to make sure that the American Foundation for suicide Prevention has the survivors of suicide support group list on their website.

So make maybe folks together to.

Yeah, absolutely.

And we know that the national hotline number is being simplified.

Ye, shall we say to 3 digits, which why?

Why did that was?

Why wasn't that thought?

Oh, I know, right before 9, 8, 8, is the number, right?

Yes, it happens in July.

16th will switch over officially spoke instead of 1, 802, 7, 3, 8, 2, 5, 5, 19.

It is much easier to remember.

Yeah, yeah.

And so I assume there will be a really prominent and wide spread media campaign to inform people about this.

There will be at they're probably going to scale back a little.

There won't be a ton of marketing direct immediately.

Just to make sure all of the technical stuff is where it should be should.

Yeah, but I'm sure hire the people, right?

We have the acting a really big influx of calls.

COVID alone has tripled, doubled or quadrupled some of these folks calls.

And so just getting enough people actually to the phone to make sure that phone and answer.

That's our first goal.

Yeah.

So that infrastructure is happening as we speak back.

Wow.

And the launches July 16th.

So we and we all hoping that that is it will be seen within Good.

I will for us said, Yeah, we're doing great well in Kentucky.

Did put some money behind it.

$500,000 was appropriated in this most recent state budget that lawmakers just passed.

Is that enough?

And what would that be used for and how much would you have won it?

We wanted lots more numbers, not in my head are at the moment.

we knew that even by Lois projections that we asked for from the budget.

Plus the $0.70 we are asking for on cell phone fees wasn't wouldn't be enough to fully fund everything but extra funds came in from the federal government's help for a little while, which is great.

So, yeah, we're really excited about it.

Really grateful for the legislature for seeing the importance of this.

This is really non partisan legislation at the highest level.

it's been amazing to.

And there was a separate bill that didn't get passed, but the but the approach.

That's how it works in Frankfurt show.

But it did come through toward the end.

And that's great.

I know that folks like you and doctor Sheila Schuster very happy about that.

And I do want to talk about some other legislation.

House Bill 44, which was kind of this student mental health day is how I've characterized it.

Tell us about that.

Knows a great plan.

Some students from Kentucky.

I schools through the student voice team came up to their legislators and said, hey, we need this.

We need our parents and grandparents to understand that it's OK for us to take a mental health that it always has been right.

It's covered by the ADA.

It's covered by all the sayings, but it's important be able to label it a mental health day.

It's important to us.

It's important to stand the stigma.

So wonderful.

I'm grateful for representing requests for bringing that in helping them make that happen.

And doctor Wilner is well represented.

Yeah, And another is severe mental illness there, too.

Issues here.

There's a waiver and then there's an an exclusion from the death penalty.

So let's talk about the waiver first and what we mean by waiver.

Okay.

So Medicaid programs when you want to do something that's not very strictly outlined in the federal government have to ask for a waiver to do it.

Lots of offer this waiver already.

We've been asking for for over 20 years.

So doctor Schuster's to Shannon get major adults for But this waiver will allow us to do support of employment and supportive housing for people with severe mental illness.

Now severe mental illnesses that extra stuff, right like the schizophrenia, the major depressive disorder, bipolar, those kinds of things.

So it won't be just everyone with just a mental health problem, it will help a lot of our most severe folks stop that revolving door, right?

Right.

And then the death penalty.

Finally, I know this.

This bill had been cut.

I mean, I have been around for 25 years, but I don't know if it's been all 25 but has been a lot.

And Reverend Patrick Bell you just mentioned mother Della Handy and she was Schuster.

You just mentioned and others have been on this for many, many years.

And finally, yes, what does this bill do?

It doesn't.

It is not retroactive.

So make sure clear with but moving forward, anyone with a severe mental illness where the mental illness was the reason for the event the happened to the crime happened that would have qualified for the death penalty.

We're throwing that death penalty off the table.

Life in prison is the most likely cents, right?

Yes.

And and those also include a severe mental illness that the bipolar, right?

Yeah, very, has a very, very narrow criteria.

Want to stress that to folks that it's not going to broad, bro, you know, broad stroke.

That's right.

Bill has very specific, but it they added to an already diagnosed.

You can't have after the crime is committed, right?

Sure.

It's before.

Yeah, Something you played, right?

Yeah.

We were going to getting it to the low.

I Q type folks.

Write your brain isn't working and the system here in some way.

That's right.

This have happened and I'm glad you brought that up because there is already exclusion for those low.

I Q I think it's below 70 and then won that seat.

So if you treat all of those the same, yeah, right.

Then it it makes perfect sense and all these things, of course, were bipartisan.

I mean, because 70% of the legislature's run by Republicans.

So I mean to have, and it was overwhelming support for both of these measures.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was amazing.

Yeah.

Was or a missed opportunity when it comes to advancing mental health in Kentucky that you wished lawmakers would have seized upon would love to see more permanent funding for 9 and a I really think that that is going to require an infrastructure that we haven't really had the vision to see So the idea with 9, 8, 8, is not just a phone number, but also somewhere to go and someone to respond.

And so those mobile crisis units, things like crisis, stabilization units.

We fund some of those in some places.

I really would love to see one in every single county.

I really think we should have that kind of infrastructure.

Yeah, you know, and I'm glad you brought that up Mars because you think about you call a number.

You talk to someone and then wide.

Yeah, right.

What's the follow-up?

I mean, that person is going to be with you, but they can't stay with you, right?

So what's the general handoff to make sure that you you say, OK, yeah, we do have some of the amazing people on the ground who are doing this warm handoffs and a lot of times a lot of folks when they call the crisis line over 94% of folks don't need lights and sirens at their house that minute.

They actually just need an exit appointment or, you know, someone to hang out with them tonight, you know, a friend or some family member to come over and just keep them safe from morning until we can get him.

And knowing that, I think that it helps a little, but it would be nice to have that response to be a mental health response, right?

Well, and we do hear it well, ironically around the conversation around police reform.

Yeah, right.

That instead of it being law enforcement that respond that a lot of times the majority or plurality, but many times there needs to be social services and the need to be mental health services on deck so that that officer is not dealing with some of that.

Maybe they may not be trying to.

Yeah, exactly.

Are police officers don't want to be social workers rights, not really what they what they go into their field for.

But the needs are blended in a lot of cases.

So having that handoff, dual showing up things like that are great options.

Yeah.

And substance abuse is also also a part of this, right.

I mean, these are kind of dual diagnoses that substance abuse and mental on wellness kind of go hand in hand.

So, yeah, I would say that most people who use substances don't do so front don't start using the substances from place of mental health in us right now.

So whether or not they have a severe mental illness or some other situations that we would call mental health condition are a moment that's, you know, traumas behind all of it, right?

Yeah.

You mentioned just a moment ago, Marci about the pandemic.

And, you know, we have some steps that will be showing about how during the pandemic, you know, the need really did rise.

Yeah, are are we going downward?

I'm now that we feel like we're coming out of COVID know now.

I think the need for services has actually skyrocketed.

Even folks are still finding it hard to find appointments.

We are number of crisis calls continues to Our number of suicides in the state started to rise a little bit we know that from other such as Hurricane Katrina.

We know that there's an arc where the mental health stuff is going to be felt for 2, 3, years after the pandemic.

Whenever after the pandemic really is.

Yeah, right.

Whatever that really as well.

That brings up a good point about our folks and neighbors and western Kentucky who have endured not just one spate of tornadoes, but then a few weeks later came another.

not.

Yeah.

I do think about the trauma, particularly of children but adults.

I mean, we you know, it's rightfully so that we're concerned about children who are very vulnerable.

But, you know, grown folk made mental health.

>> A lot of Syria and finding it can be you know, but our communal health centers are really trying to step it up as best they can and and made the needs.

And I'm really grateful for them and our private providers.

Yeah.

You mentioned earlier about hope.

>> And then mental health, America and mental Health America of Kentucky are really about that right?

I mean, so what does that look like for you in terms of policy?

Well, is can talk about before stage 4.

We want people to be treated before they end up in a hospital or jail situation.

There's no reason that we can't screen people for mental health issues all their life, you know, get that checkup from the neck up once every month or so.

You know, I pick a different one.

If you don't like depression today, you know, if you're worried about anxiety tomorrow, you know, is my alcohol use too much?

Am I using it too frequently flow to build it over for COVID, right?

So that's one that has been increasing and screening.

I get to go at that I think we all might have tried question, though, about how do you know when you need help?

I mean, everyone gets the blues and life is that life is life and it's full of ups and So how do you know that it's time to really seek professional help?

>> Some major indicators for us are when you are withdrawing from friends and family, you're not hanging out with people who used to like and it's OK, we all go through phases where we find different from groups and things like that.

But if it's like, you just don't get any joy at being around people, we're not getting joy out of the hobbies and things used to do some folks.

The ability to concentrate COVID really did a number on all of us and our ability to concentrate because things were so different.

Now, if you're still having that trouble, if it's really really impacting your daily life, that would be okay.

And then they care summit.

Maybe we need to get that checked out.

I'm also sad that stuff.

You're crying for 2, 3 days and every single week for weeks on end, you know, once or twice is fine.

You know, I once a month is fine.

You know those kinds of things.

But if it's really impacting your ability to do your job, if you're crying every day in your car for you go to work.

That's a problem.

My all And then one other thing anger.

A lot of people don't remember the anger is related to depression and sadness as well.

We tend to lash out in anger when things aren't well, right.

And it for really explosive with all the people around us.

A relationships.

That's another reason.

>> Well, in grief, so to yeah, on your point about if you're crying, you know, every day for weeks on end.

But if you've gone through a traumatic whether that's, you know, human or financial or work or whatever that last is that it's of magnitude.

I mean, you know, some people say, well, you can to take time to grieve.

And that's OK, but you like, is there a timeline we use, OK, 3 months and or 6 months in there should be signs mild.

It was because their little controversy over the AP and the decided that a year now, what is the U.S. >> START statistical manual?

That tells us what the diagnosis I think that's enough show we diagnose people decided a year of major impact.

Okay.

That like, hey, there's another condition that starts at about a year that we need to start thinking about some antidepressants and things for the short term.

Okay.

For someone so but the important part of that to me was it's a major impact for a year.

It's crying every single day.

It's not being able to feed yourself, get dressed, get up.

So that's not just, you know, most people's grief starts to get to where they can go back to work and function.

You know, 6 months, 9 months.

It may not be right away.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

That's the last mile.

traversing makes P. Right, right.

I know that.

That's why and then of the stuff is hard and fast know, right?

There's no universal rule for any of it.

Now, there are some guidelines and but that's why we need those giant books to help us know when it's actually beyond what we would consider regular, right.

Do you think that schools are doing enough to address mental health and what more could be done in schools?

You know, to even talk about it and what Hage.

>> Should we be having a conversation with our kids about?

Are you okay from the neck up?

I think teaching kids about emotions in preschool and that Kinder Garden is really important.

Understanding what their motions are being able to label them, making them aware that they can control their reaction to their emotions self-regulation.

Yeah, you know, later on in life, you start thinking about, you know, what are healthy relationships looking like, what's healthy decision-making and those kinds of things are things we should always be working on.

I think Kentucky schools are doing their best.

One of those things that I love the legislature to do would have been funding all those mental health professionals that we really need in our schools to help cover some of that area.

Yes, school counselors just can't do all of that, right?

I mean, there many times academic Morrisons of yeah.

Well, it is so interesting about the availability of treatment services provider's.

Yeah.

Is that still a big issue?

We do not have enough mental health providers in Kentucky.

We wish we did, but we just don't.

we do the best with what we've got.

Yeah, I'm working on, you know, trying to find new ways to to make that better at a place.

People want to work, right?

So some of it is that what I also hear from, you know, people of color, it's even harder to find a provider of color which cultural competency is important.

Regardless of what you need help with physical mental spiritual.

I mean, you know, just having that connection.

But if you if you're looking for somebody of your racial or ethnic group and the mental health field, it's really hard.

It can definitely be very hard and it's hard for farmers and folks in the rural areas who have a different kind of culture than our urban folks.

Right?

So yeah, asking good questions.

Remembering that finding a therapist is like dating.

You've got to go through a few of them sometimes before you find the right fit.

Is one of my favorite statements?

Because I think people relate to that.

Yeah.

And it's true.

You know, and the first one you're signed may not be a good fit.

Well, it's funny because people may think, well, if if I don't jive with this person, it's me.

That's not my therapist is on the way down to where it's almost never, you know, maybe that their fish just hit something or said something are working for you.

And that's okay.

And so when you feel that and you flinch, you should really take stock about and think maybe I need to find a second opinion.

Yeah, it's worth checking.

You know, is it me and my abrasive or something like that?

But also like it could also be them.

Yeah.

Haha.

Child, child psychologist psychiatry.

I mean, for children, adolescents.

We hear that trying to find providers is even worse than it is perhaps for adults.

Is that true?

There were only around 80 in the in the state of Kentucky many years ago.

We did a study.

So there just aren't enough of them.

They're all waiting, period and one first bridge county and the state.

Yeah.

A 4.3 million people.

Yes.

So we definitely have had a long-term, a shortage of them.

Thankfully, you know, our APR ends RPA.

Some of our pediatricians have really stepped Interesting article, The New York Times this week pediatrician stepping up in Glasgow and of course it's happening all over country.

Yeah, I did want to ask about that about provider education when it comes to mental wellness.

Do you think that there that that medical groups like the Kma and others who are responsible for continuing education of their membership.

Are they pushing this piece enough?

Not sure that I've seen it, but I'm not a provider.

So I would write but they're definitely on my short list of folks to reach out to him for some more of that, because I do think a lot of our paraprofessionals, especially could use a little primer and update.

Yeah, yeah.

It's important to ask all of those things.

And I I know that I can about from mine.

You know, how are you doing?

I mean, yes, and I'm just asking that question.

Are you OK?

Because people often wonder what if I if I suspect that my loved one is not in a good place.

What am I to say?

Yeah.

Am I to be direct and ask them?

Yeah, it's always best to be direct as direct as you can Some folks, I know cultures vary a little bit, but being clear about are you suicidal.

That's a super direct question.

You asked that point blank.

You've got to ask you point-blank, because if you ask, are you going to hurt yourself?

You could be talking to someone who cuts are burns and they might be thinking about during not and you get the wrong help for them might.

So you want to make sure that you're asking very deliberately about suicide.

Other things like it's not just are you OK?

But like, hey, I notice that you've been acting this way or had this behavior change.

I'm just checking up on.

You want to make sure, you know, I think you're awesome and I'm here for you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

For station, it's awkward.

Sometimes what's really important.

Yeah.

Isn't there a technique?

And I should remember, this is a question persuade refer that question yet.

QPR you tell us what that means.

That is a suicide prevention training.

And that really is asking a direct question about are you suicidal, persuading someone to get help, whatever that help might be, that they're willing to accept.

It's kind of an important piece of that and knowing what are referred them to know that 9, 8, 9, 8 number know your community, mental health center numbers.

Yeah, I know their doctor.

If you can help that if you can help with that.

Yeah.

And what can you do to make sure that the means aren't as accessible as their?

You know, I'm saying like, yeah, make sure those trigger locks or there make sure gun safes are there.

You're locking up medications that might be You know, with kids, you know, the less they have access to those kinds of things, the more barriers with that, honestly, to adults too.

He's been really fast conversation, Marci, but we knew we said we're talking like 25 hours.

Not 25 minutes.

Yeah, I do want to ask you real quickly.

If you can answer in 30 seconds, what do we still get wrong when it comes to mental health?

I think we think it's permanently debilitating.

It doesn't have to be recovery happens for everyone.

And it really should be the expectation.

Well, that's a perfect final word.

And a hopeful word.

So Marci Timmerman, thank you for being the Advocate that you are and for doing what you're doing.

You know, not just for mental health America, Kentucky, but for the state because you are in those cases where the conversations are happening and we're very grateful.

>> Thank you.

I hope that you are getting a checkup from the neck up.

We all could use it every now and again and until I see you again, you can follow us on Twitter, Facebook.

You can watch previous programs at KITV Dot Org, slash connections within the podcast.

If the address on your screen, please take good care of yourself.

I'm Renee Shaw and I will see you real soon.