- [Mike] Stand your ground or shoot first ask questions later.

A new Ohio law is seen in vastly different ways.

COVID-19 case numbers and hospitalizations continue to rise as vaccine variants become more prominent.

Officials urge vaccination and masks.

And the persistent epidemic that precedes the pandemic opioid addiction and overdose deaths continues as Cuyahoga County is on pace to set a grim new record.

Ideas is next.

(soft music) - [Presenter] Brought to you by Westfield offering insurance to protect what's yours grow your business and achieve your dreams.

(soft music) (upbeat music) - Hello, and welcome to Ideas.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Variants of the Corona virus are becoming dominant in Ohio as numbers continue to rise, now at more than 183 new cases per a hundred thousand residents.

A law requiring a person to retreat before using deadly force changed this week we'll dig into the so-called Stand Your Ground law.

A high profile politician jumps into Cleveland's mayoral race, a high profile businessman jumps into the US Senate race and a high profile doctor says she's not running for office.

Joining me this week to discuss all of these stories and more Ideas Stream health reporter, Lisa Ryan Statehouse news Bureau reporter, Andy Chow and Ken Schneck editor of the Buckeye Flame.

Let's get ready to round table.

Lisa, the rise in variants is not unexpected but the speed is perhaps surprising.

Here's Dr. VanderHoff on that topic.

- Evidence continues to mount that B one one seven along with other variants is not only more contagious, it's also more deadly.

- Obviously clearly troubling.

- Yeah.

And Dr. VanderHoff actually said that recently we've seen the rate of this particular variant double every eight to nine days.

And he theorizes that in just a couple of weeks this'll be the biggest variant and that we might just be only dealing with this variant essentially.

And that will be the biggest rise in cases in Ohio.

And we're seeing that nationwide too.

We're seeing this as the largest variant it's spreading faster.

He said it's deadlier that it's causing more people to go to the hospital.

And what we don't know as well is so we think that the vaccine will be effective against these variants but we don't know, you know, natural immunity a lot of people are deciding to not get the vaccine because they think that they have this natural immunity which you do in a sense but we don't really know how effective it is.

And we certainly don't know how effective it is against these variants.

So it's still particularly important that everyone get the vaccine to protect against these variants.

- So to that point, and you mentioned it in passing the vaccines, which were not designed for these variants necessarily appear to be effective against them, though.

All of them do.

- Yes.

That's what we're seeing so far at least.

They're still doing more research on that but the hope is that at the very least it will prevent severe cases.

So you're at least partially protected.

- Andy, the governor repeatedly used the phrase wrong direction to refer to many metrics includes the benchmark cases.

I mentioned per a hundred thousand.

It's now almost 184 cases.

It was down significantly from that earlier and had been going down and we were thinking, okay we're gonna get to that benchmark which is 50 cases per a hundred thousand.

That's when all the health orders are lifted wrong direction indeed though.

- Yeah.

And the state is sort of fighting to achieve its own goal of trying to get to 50 cases per 100,000 people and trying to achieve a vaccine driven herd immunity.

And at this rate at the rate the state is going when it comes to how many people are getting vaccinated.

And with the stories that the state and local health officials are hearing about vaccine hesitancy, it seems like the state has sort of a long way to go to achieve that goal especially with the number of cases going up.

And so now we're sort of seeing this battle of trying to outpace the amount of new cases that are arising here in Ohio with the amount of vaccines that are distributed around the state.

And with that this the health orders that are still in place.

And this week, the state ended up issuing what they're calling a condensed health order sort of getting rid of all the miscellaneous health orders for the different industries, for the different public and private sectors, jobs and businesses and creating one consolidated health order to say use your mask, keep your distance, stay outside if possible keep areas clean, keep washing your hands.

So the state has this really big challenge ahead of itself trying to achieve this goal of eradicating the virus when it keeps morphing into a different variant and with people still not wanting to get the vaccine.

- When we talk about a more simplified health order that also changed in terms of like how many people can be outside and gather those types of things also changed.

And the question is whether that is something that makes us safer or less safe, maybe there's a sense of comfort now that perhaps shouldn't be there.

- And it's a new approach to the same issue.

So now outside, rather than having a limit on the maximum capacity for a place like a stadium or for different festivals and fairs, instead they're really focusing on keeping people in quote unquote pods.

So groups of no more than 10 people and then keeping those pods six feet apart keep wearing masks when possible.

And so it's a different approach to it.

And yeah, it remains to be seen if it's going to be effective or not.

I asked governor DeWine earlier this week with the rise in cases is it the new variant or is the state also seeing maybe relaxed behavior when it comes to things like wearing mask, gathering in big groups of people.

He seems to say, and he says that health officials have backed him up on this.

That it's not a change in behavior.

He says that people are still following the proper mitigation efforts and that it is the variant.

But with these changes with this new consolidated health order will we see a possible change in the conditions or possible change in the numbers because of it and with all the things that we're talking about right now keep in mind that the state is also approaching a different deadline in June where a new law can go into effect that allows the legislature to revoke and rescind any of these health orders.

So governor DeWine was hoping that the state could hit that 50 cases per 100,000 people threshold before June and then be able to lift all these health orders.

He's now moved into this new game plan of this condensed health order.

And now the legislature could come back in June when the new law applies and say, hey, we don't like this, we're gonna revoke it, we're gonna rescind it, we're gonna send it back to you.

And so there's a lot of moving parts in play here.

As the variant begins to spread around the state - We heard from Dr. Bruce VanderHoff and from the governor again yesterday as we hear every time that they give a press briefing that masks are essential as our vaccines and on the vaccine front, he said, again, we're in a life and death race to get more people vaccinated here's the governor.

- So life and death race.

One third of Ohio and so now been vaccinated we just have to keep moving as fast as we can to get more of our fellow citizens vaccinated.

- Lisa that's a third of Ohio, but the governor said there's some new strategies to make sure that we get more people vaccinated groups of people for example, allowing vaccine vendors to partner with organizations, factories, companies, whatever and basically have vaccine fairs.

- Yeah.

So his idea there is that people are really, you know they're prone to listen to their spouses, to their friends but they're also, you know, they want that convenience.

So these are the main points that when people decide to take the vaccine that's what they're looking at.

And so the hope is that by bringing the vaccine into people's, you know places of business where they're working and just making it as convenient as possible that would be the way to do it.

So, yeah, he mentioned Nestle is partnering and that's obviously a big employer here in Northeast Ohio.

They're gonna partner with Discount Drug Mart and have vaccine pods, you know kind of closed off to just their employees and there is the push too.

Pfizer is available for people who are 16 and 17 years old.

So there's the push to bring the vaccine to high schools as well as long as students have their parents signature and their parents approval they can get that vaccine as well.

So, you know, really vaccinating 16, 17 and 18 year olds in high school as well.

- Ken Schneck.

- Yeah.

I love that the governor poses it as a race because there are legislators in Ohio who are directly standing on the track and trying to block us from finishing the race.

You have representative Jennifer Gross who's a Republican from West pause Chester not to be confused with Westchester.

who has this vaccine choice and anti-discrimination act that really wants to build into the system, the opportunity for people to not be discriminated against if they choose not to get the vaccine and to really pause on getting the vaccine.

And before people make any assumptions about representative Gross, she's a nurse practitioner.

She has the medical background.

She knows what she's talking about.

And she's been really upfront in saying even in proposing this vaccine choice and anti-discrimination act, she's been upfront in saying, well, I may get it but I'm gonna hold off for a little bit.

So there's a lot of mixed messages coming out of Columbus.

- She wants to see what happens in the next couple of years, she said, we know what is the effect of this vaccine?

That's her approach to it.

But beyond the idea of the legislation she's putting forward that says you don't necessarily have to be vaccinated.

It's this anti-discrimination part.

And it's not just for this vaccine, but it's really for anyone who doesn't wanna get a vaccine some would call it the anti-vaxxer population.

The second bill, Andy, that we've seen proposed by a lawmaker that seeks to preemptively deal with a vaccine related issue the other soft to ban vaccine passports.

But these are basically saying bad might come.

And so we need to have some legislation to address it ahead of time.

- Yes, Mike, and it is an interesting topic because like you said, it's more of a preemptive strike about what could happen.

What we have heard from people who do come to the state house to testify on things, who might be anti-vaccination or who people who are against the mass mandates people who are against the health orders is that they believe in, or they have reported that they have experienced some sort of discrimination.

Maybe they'd been kicked out of a store because they refuse to wear a mask.

And so I think what these lawmakers are saying is that they want to sort of jump ahead of the issue and create these anti-discrimination laws for people who make the personal decision to not get a vaccination.

And so, for example, the vaccine passports it's a talking point that's been circulating on cable news outlets, on social media, on certain blogs but we have heard no talk of the governor in fact, he's answered a few times now saying that he has no plans of creating this so-called vaccine passport.

Whatever that might be it's kind of a catch all term at this point, but yeah there are lawmakers out there who want to sort of jump ahead of it and say, whatever's coming down the road they wanna create these protections for people who do not get the vaccine.

- Ken you're at Baldwin Wallace University.

In addition to editor of the Buckeye Flame you are a professor there and teach education.

What's the story there in terms of vaccines?

- Absolutely.

So vaccines were made available to BW students and it's not mandatory, but as, as Lisa mentioned this will be the Johnson and Johnson so that students can get the one dose and be all set.

But from a higher-end perspective this is a fascinating story.

You have schools like Rutgers in my home state of New Jersey who are using what's called the Emergency Use Authorization Act which is their way of saying, yes we can absolutely make this mandatory for students before they show up in the fall.

And this is just at the right beginning stages of being a real legal battle across the country.

And certainly here in Ohio as well, should schools, should colleges and universities decide we're gonna make this mandatory before students return in the fall.

(upbeat music) - Ohio law no longer requires a person to retreat before resorting to the use of deadly force for self-defense.

The state's new so-called Stand Your Ground law went into effect Tuesday.

Supporters say it gives more legal protections for those caught in life-threatening situations.

Opponents say the new law will diminish the safety of people of color and lead to more gun violence and deaths.

They call it the Shoot First law.

Andy, this bill is just on the books but there is already an effort to try to repeal it or parts of it.

- This has been an issue that has been hotly contested at the state house for years and years and years, it started as a bill that some of the more conservative lawmakers in the legislature would introduce but it just wouldn't go anywhere.

But year after year, with new elections and new members coming in, it gained more support.

And then it finally was signed into law this year by governor Mike DeWine, keeping a promise that he made to certain groups about two years ago.

And so, yes, it is very much expected that legislators especially democratic legislators are going to seek a way to repeal it and then there might be some citizens issues out there to citizens' initiatives out there to repeal it.

This has been a growing concern among different communities for a long time.

The issue of Stand Your Ground.

A lot of the debate comes down to when somebody finds themselves in a quote unquote life-threatening situation they can use lethal force without having the duty to retreat.

Opponents of the bill say that the life-threatening situation that this bill is talking about can be subjective and it can be especially dangerous for people of color who tend to be seen as threatening to people with implicit bias people especially among white people who have an implicit bias against people of color, seeing them as threatening.

So that's just part of a very big debate when it comes to the Stand Your Ground bill.

And then there's a fear that, like you said, opponents say that this can create a culture, a shoot first culture among gun owners, who do, you know, they get training and they learn about the different laws and they used to learn about the Stand Your Ground Law or they used to learn about the duty to retreat.

Now that's not in place.

- It doesn't also, it doesn't just have to be the white people who feel threatened.

You think of the Trayvon Martin case.

So there's a lot of history that goes into this discussion as well.

A lot of evidence, a lot of history, a lot of anecdotes, - Yes - Et cetera.

- And, and again, I've sat through hours and hours of testimony at the Statehouse when it comes to this issue and something that comes up over and over again is the data in States that already have the Stand Your Ground Law.

Data that shows that gun violence does go up that lethal gun violence can go up against people of color, especially black people.

And that has been data that has been brought to the table many times now that the state is a Stand Your Ground state.

Now that Ohio is a Stand Your Ground state there are going to be people who are going to be looking at those numbers to see what kind of impact does this law have on gun violence in the state.

- A new study published in the American journal of public health this year analyzed 32 studies on Stand Your Ground Laws.

It found that in at least some US States, most notably Florida Stand Your Ground Laws have been associated with increases in homicides.

And there's been racial bias in the application of legal protections.

Thoughts on this, Ken?

- Yeah, Andy really hit it.

You know, the, the Buckeye Firearms Association which was one of the chief backers of this bill the Buckeye Firearms Association of which the Buckeye Flame is not a subsidiary.

They had a, they had a quote that they said you have to have an honest and reasonable fear of death and great bodily harm before you can use lethal force, such as a firearm.

And when they put things like that out there they make it seem like that's objective.

And in no situation is that objective.

It is completely subjective.

That feeling that fear of death and great bodily harm is absolutely influenced by, as Andy said, implicit bias and the really embedded racism in our systems.

And just the way that we were raised in a culturated.

So the data's there, the data's there from other States.

So as a minority leader, Sykes was highlighting.

This is there for everybody to see.

This is there's no question that these laws have not helped.

And in particular have not helped communities of color (upbeat music) - Before the World Health Organization declared the Corona virus, a pandemic in March of 2020 we were already several years into the public health epidemic of opioid addiction and overdose deaths.

This week the Cuyahoga County medical examiner, Dr. Thomas Gilson issued a public health alert stating that Cuyahoga County saw at least 69 suspected overdose deaths in March.

That puts the County on pace to eclipse the 727 overdose deaths recorded in 2017, a record.

At least I remember in 2017 we did a number of shows on this.

This was an epidemic.

This was startling to people.

There were all kinds of media coverage of it.

We're now in the midst of a pandemic so we're not hearing much about this, but when you look at this and see the number is going to be greater than that 2017 number that had everyone so shocked this was a big deal.

- Yes.

And yeah, the 2017 number was a record year.

So 2019, 2020, we did see some slight decrease but I think what's particularly concerning is that if we continue at this rate, that we are only still in the first quarter of 2021, but Dr. Gilson is essentially saying, if we continue at this rate we might see deaths surpass that 2017 records.

So, you know, keeping an eye out for, you know, fentanyl and cocaine overdose deaths is what they think is causing that.

Carfentanil was an issue in 2017 which is an even stronger substance than fentanyl.

There were reports I remember in 2017 and earlier there were reports that even just, you know, touching or being around this carfentanil substance could particularly cause you to, you know have symptoms and cause you to need medical assistance.

So there was a particular concern around like EMTs responding to overdose deaths and things like that, which is why, you know obviously a long-term solution is to get people help get them addiction services and resources.

But the short-term solution that they're looking at is, you know, fentanyl and test strips so that people could you know, test you.

If you're going to do drugs do it safely is essentially the idea there to potentially try to decrease some of these deaths and also, you know getting people Naloxone so that they can, if they do overdose that family members could provide assistance.

- One of the big pushes to reopen Ohio last spring, Ken was the concern that the lockdown measures would have on those with addictions and that this would exacerbate those particular problems.

Do you think that's contributing to this?

- Absolutely.

You know, I actually started my career in alcohol and other drug education.

So I tend to keep my eye on stories like this.

And I think when we see the increasing number of studies we have to keep in mind that studies take a really long time to put together.

So they're only starting to come out about the effects of the pandemic specifically on mental health and addiction.

And so what is starting to come out are just these really strong linkages.

And we know that isolation does contribute is a contributing factor to opioid deaths.

And we know that mental health is a contributing factor to opioid deaths.

So now we're just starting to see the studies.

We're gonna see them increasingly as we move forward that are connecting all the dots and the pandemic is absolutely a factor here.

(upbeat music) - You can add Northeast, Ohio businessman, Bernie Moreno to the field of Republicans, hoping to succeed Rob Portman in the United States Senate.

Marino joins former Ohio treasurer, Josh Mandel and former Ohio GOP chair, Jane Timken as declared Republican candidates for the seat which opens next year.

One big hope for Democrats are run by former Ohio health commissioner, Amy Acton will not happen.

She announced this week , she's out.

Amy Acton's rise and then decision not to run all really kind of came outside of her.

It was basically people talking about her but when she said she's not running she sounded like somebody who's running.

Like she isn't.

But then she was saying, you know, it was sounded almost like a campaign speech, but I'm not the one to do it.

- Yeah.

It kind of gave off the vibe of maybe wanting to seek office in the future but maybe analyzing the current situation and believing that it wasn't really the right time for her at this moment.

You are seeing a lot of hesitancy from people.

And you know, this is reflected in the fact that Rob Portman is not seeking re-election.

And it's that people believe that there is too much polarization that things are getting too heated too political, too divided, and sort of got that sense from former Department of Health director, Amy Acton in her statement, sort of saying, you know we need to raise the bar of public discourse.

We need to expect more from our public leaders.

But then yeah, like you said announcing that she will not be running.

Again, she was a considered to be a big contender for the democratic nomination because she is one of those rare Democrats that does have a large amount of name recognition.

And she would, even though this would be her first time running for public office, she would have hit the ground running because of that high profile.

- Let's talk about that.

The idea that, that there are so many different candidates Josh Mendell is one who is aligned very strongly with president Trump and using much of that playbook.

We have Bernie Marino who has certainly aligned with Trump and saying he wants to keep Trump policies basically.

And then we have Jane Timken who was a Trump favored candidate to be the GOP chair.

And yet when she was at a campaign event, everyone wearing masks standing infront of a DeWine Houston sign.

- That's why Mike, it's so hard to figure out what's going on in Ohio because this is a state that will, that has in the past voted for Mike DeWine, who is very much considered an establishment Republican but this is a state that will also vote for Donald Trump overwhelmingly.

And so what will happen in this race?

You have three people who are really tying their political future to the policies of former president Donald Trump, like you said, Jane Timken has a huge reputation of being strongly for the president.

She was the one that came in for the former president.

She was the one that came in in 2016 after Trump had won the presidential election back then.

So she was basically handpicked by Trump's people to be the party chair of Ohio.

And then, like you said, there's other people following that playbook.

So what exactly is the strategy that's gonna win here in Ohio, especially remember, especially considering the primary where people usually run to either the left or the right, depending on what party they're running for.

(upbeat music) - Cleveland city council, President, Kevin Kelly jumped into the Cleveland mayor's race as expected.

Kelly joins former Councilman Zack Reed and nonprofit executive, Justin Bibb has declared candidates with others expected to follow.

Ken, We still don't know the plans for mayor Jackson himself but it seems a little less likely that he'd run again.

If the council president is announcing, because it seemed as though the council president was waiting to make sure that the field was clear - Indeed, it's almost like a two-part announcement for Kelly in that he's saying I'm running, but it almost is a implicit acknowledgement that mayor Jackson is not going to run again, because that would be a very bizarre situation if it happened.

Who knows when mayor Jackson will actually say if he's running for a fifth term but in all the coverage of this, that's what you're seeing that this is Kevin Kelly saying, yup, I'm running which everyone knew that that was going to happen.

But also the acknowledgement that this likely means that mayor Jackson is not going to be seeking a fifth term.

- Coming up Monday on The Sound of Ideas.

The Cleveland International Film Festival is underway.

And we'll talk with Ohio born director, Nicole Regal whose autobiographical film Holler follows a young woman struggling to climb out of poverty in Appalachia, Ohio.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thanks for watching and stay safe.

(soft music) - [Presenter] Brought to you by Westfield offering insurance to protect what's yours grow your business and achieve your dreams.