Welcome to Counter Culture, a talk show normally in a diner.

Your body temperature is normal.

Tonight, I welcome actually four very special guests magicians and co-founders of the Smoke & Mirrors Magic Theater, Danny Archer and Marty Martin.

- We are doing the true art of magic, not boxes, not floating ladies in the air.

- Family therapist Ruby Salazar.

- If you think about leadership, creativity is the number one ingredient.

- And corporate comic and author Mr. Scott Bloom.

- We used to do stand up at 8pm and then I went to corporate, where I'm now trying to make people laugh at 8am.

At the end of the day, they're an audience that wants to have a good time.

- All right here on Counter Culture.

Hi, folks, I'm your host, Grover Silcox, coming to you from Lehigh Valley Public Media Studio B while we wait for the go ahead to return to our original home at Daddy Pop's Diner in little old Hatboro.

- We don't want to vanish the not.

We'd rather take the knot and completely remove it from the rope like magic.

- My first guests have something up their sleeves, but they're not trying to con you.

They're master entertainers and magicians who perform their illusions and sleight of hand all over the country, but primarily at the Smoke & Mirrors Magic Theater, which they co-founded.

Please welcome men of magic Danny Archer and Marty Martin, old pals.

Hi guys.

How are you?

- Hey, Grover.

- What have you got up your sleeves?

Anything?

- My arms.

- Yeah, that's right.

I have to say that your theater, Smoke & Mirrors, is fabulous.

Tell us a little bit about how you came to create your own theater and what you put into it.

- As a magician, one of the things you have to is normally you're traveling.

I happened to be doing a series of shows in Germany.

And as I was going around in Germany there was all these little smaller sized magic theaters in Germany.

I saw at least five or six of them.

So that started me thinking.

And there was a number of them in America as well.

And I started thinking it might be interesting to have my own theater.

- We should also say that the theater itself is in Huntingdon Valley, PA, just on the other side of the Philadelphia line.

- Yeah, we are less than a mile to Philadelphia and less than a mile to Bucks County.

So soon as I got back to town, I called up Marty.

Marty and I used to co-own the Philadelphia Magic Company.

That was a shop, not a theater.

So that sold magic tricks.

And Marty, you know, we got together and he says, what have you been doing?

And I told him about all the theaters that I saw.

And I said I sort of had in mind to maybe get a theater going.

And Marty said, let's do it.

Magic is one of those art forms you need to be able to see and understand what is going on.

So most theaters are built, the stage is elevated and the audience is here and they're looking up at the performer.

Our theater is the opposite.

There is no stage.

The performer's on the floor, but the audience is elevated.

So, there's four rows.

Each row gets progressively higher.

So by the time you're in the fourth row, your feet are seven feet off the ground.

So you can see over the head of the person in front of you.

That's one of the things we've heard from audience members over and over.

They say, oh, my God, there's no bad seats.

And we've had a number of performers here that have worked all over the world that have said to us, this might be the finest small theater that I've ever worked in.

- The front row in our theater is three feet to six feet from the performer.

So we are doing the true art of magic, not boxes, not floating ladies in the air, even though we have had people float people in the air.

But it's the skilled art and the skilled performers.

They may have names you never heard of, just like in the comedy world, but they may be the best magicians you will ever see on the planet.

- People don't know the names of the performers we have, but what happens is when someone comes to the theater and they say, oh my God, this experience was incredible, and they tell a friend, we've had some customers that have been to the theater in a calendar year, 52 weeks, 20 to 30 times.

They have bought tickets and came to see that often because they realize, oh, my God, I'm getting entertainment value.

The shows are incredible.

But they don't know the names of the performers.

- Marty, who would be some of the acts and what would be their sort of specialty that have wowed people at the Smoke & Mirrors Theater?

- Well, from Italy, we had one of the top mind readers, mentalist Luca Volpe, Harrison Greenbaum out of New York, who's one of the top comedy magicians in the world, card experts, we've had Daniel Roy, who was recently on Penn & Teller: Fool Us.

We've had Jason Ladanye, who's also a card expert.

We've had Gil Eagles since he came out of retirement just to do our theater.

- Every magician has sort of their signature style.

Like Marty, what would be your specialty?

- Because I owned magic shops and worked in magic shops from the time I was 11 years old, I have learned many fields of magic, almost all of them.

So I do a lot of card magic.

I do mind reading, I do close up effects with coins, with foreign objects, saltshakers.

It doesn't matter what it is.

I've also been the close up magician at Caesar's Palace for over seven years.

I've covered all aspects of magic throughout my life.

- Right.

- And the same goes for Danny, I mean, Danny works magic shops, but he's performed close up in the biggest and smallest venues in the world.

- I do have one little specialty in that I have a performing character.

So when you come to the theater, if you come to see the family show, you're going to see Danny Archer.

If you come in the evening, you're not going to see Danny Archer.

I perform as Gino Mozzarella Gino is a South Philly gangster kind of character.

He's got a, you know, a hat, a toothpick in his mouth, brings a little more attitude, you know what I mean.

So the Gino character, though, is something that I came up with a number of years ago, and it's still the same kind of stuff, but it's the attitude of the character that a lot of people really, really get a kick out of.

- I think you have a trick ready for us today.

You can do a little something?

- I have a deck of cards here.

And if a magician has a deck of cards...

But let me show everyone that this is a regular deck of cards, the front sides all different.

The back sides are all the same.

I'm going to go like this.

Can the camera see this?

I'm going to riffle through the cards like this.

Grover, you're just going to yell stop whatever you like.

- OK?

- I'm not looking.

Say stop.

Go ahead.

Stop!

- OK, right there, did you get one?

- Got it, got it.

- OK, so that's your card.

You're just going to remember the name of your card.

Just concentrate.

Now, where are you?

You're probably 50, 60 miles away.

This makes it a little bit more difficult.

Concentrate on just the color of the card.

It's a black card.

- Yes.

- Think about the number or the letter.

- Yes.

- It's not a letter, it's a number card.

- Right.

- It's a low card.

- Yes.

- A very low card.

- Yes.

- You are thinking of the two of clubs.

- Very good!

Yes, absolutely.

What's a trick someone can get started with?

- Well, currently, Danny and I actually put together a magic kit for ages seven and up.

So it has basic tricks all the way to professional effects that are in there.

The cups and balls is a basic trick they could do.

- Three cups, three balls.

You put a ball on top of a cup like so, you hit it like that, it penetrates right through.

- Obviously, during this pandemic, folks can't go to the theater, but can they still see some of your shows via the internet?

- We do have some shows that are available for watching, virtual shows.

- At our theater, we actually have a four camera set up.

- Smokeandmirrorstheater.com is our website.

And at that website, it will list information about upcoming shows, information about rentals of the theater.

That is still going on.

People have special events, and we have a number of those coming up as well, because the rules are starting to be relaxed, relaxed a little bit.

But if you go to smokeandmirrorstheater.com, you can find all about the venue.

- Obviously, your theater is one of the great reasons we got to get through this pandemic, because we love your theater and I love the acts that you bring there.

And it's terrific for everyone.

- Thanks for having us back.

- Thanks for having us.

- Danny Archer and Marty Martin, two men who know the difference between a delusion and an illusion, of which they have many.

My next guest is a therapist who served children with developmental challenges and their families for more than 40 years.

She worked with the late Dr. Stanley Greenspan in developing the floortime method of relationship based therapy for children on the autism spectrum, and among her many credits, she chaired the first autism work group for candidate Barack Obama during his first run for the presidency.

She is author of numerous articles on autism and child development and speaks to professional groups and others interested in developmental therapies and issues.

It's an honor to welcome Ruby Salazar to the program.

Hi, Ruby, how are you?

- Grover, it's so nice to see you.

It's always a pleasure.

- It is.

Well, you're one of the foremost experts in treating developmental issues and conditions, but also in your years of working with children and adults and families.

I would say that you're an expert on learning in general and how we learn, how children learn.

How would you describe the state of our educational system in this country as it is now?

- Really, we are at quite a crisis with regard to that.

And I'm really not referring to the pandemic crisis, which, of course, exacerbates this situation.

I do feel profoundly, particularly for young children and their families, that education, the environments of education and the quality of education have been so compromised and the family is being so affected by these compromises.

And we're going to have, without question, to do some catching up as a result of that.

- What is actually missing in our education?

- I'd like to start with my deep concern about the creativity crisis.

Sadly, I think other Western nations are aware and attending to it a lot more than we are.

When I say creativity, I really mean it's the production of something original and useful.

And if you think about leadership or if you look at research, creativity is the number one ingredient that really promotes good leadership.

I think we've had some experience of this very personally in the last years.

And creativity really requires both divergent thinking, which is generating many unique and important new ideas, but using those ideas in combination with what we call convergent thinking, which is calling on what we already know.

And so what we're finding is that the ability to combine these two kinds of thinking is much more compromised than it ever has been.

It started declining in the US in the 1990s, and it has had, by research standards, a steady decline in the wrong direction.

Much of the curriculums of the past, the No Child Left Behind initiative, which we're trying to get out of, much of the curriculums were rather static and they did not foster creative thinking.

They really fostered a top down approach to acquiring core facts and information.

But then kids didn't know what to do with them.

They didn't understand how to use that information in new and creative ways.

- How does relationship play a role in learning?

- So there were two areas of science that have been particularly important for us to get better about.

One area is how young children relate and learn, how they grow developmentally to be their best.

And the other is how the brain works and what's really happening in the brain.

We know now that creativity is a combination of both the left side of the brain and the right side of the brain working together.

But it is the left side of the brain which entertains problem solving and those kinds of things that starts it off, you know, and then uses feeling and emotions and those things to integrate and organize ideas.

And this is another very critical problem in our culture, that we are not raising good problem solvers.

- Under normal circumstances, it behooves the educator to understand and appreciate the emotional state of his or her students.

But under these extraordinary conditions, with the Covid, it's even more important.

- I'm working with several schools now to open up more, and what we're working on now is training up the teachers to expect and recognize stress, you know, that the children have, in some cases, had trauma by the experiences of the last year.

And if we think that we can just send our kids back and go right in and start up as usual, that's a mistake.

An adult's ability to recognize stress or trauma or social emotional angst is highly, highly dependent on the adult being self reflective, that the adult is aware of himself or herself as they are in the interaction with the child.

- So these are areas that really the educational system needs to work on.

And we all should be starting to think about these things not only during this pandemic, but even after it's over.

- Well, we can all do something, even if this isn't relevant for us because our kids are up and grown and our grandkids are grown or whatever.

We can all care about this because we can vote for the right people and we can really support communities that help families in ways that they need help.

Oftentimes we don't recognize that who we live next door to, the neighborhood we live in, the town we live in, the community that we live in, those are all opportunities at sharing and caring in ways that can help us all be happier and healthier.

- Well, I'm going to leave it right there.

Thanks so much, Ruby.

- And I want to thank you for the important work that you do to propagate important and meaningful messages.

- Well, thank you, Ruby.

Thanks so much.

Thanks for sharing your time, your knowledge and insights with us on Counter Culture.

Ruby Salazar, family therapist who believes that relationships serve as the base upon which learning takes place.

- Do you know that Acronyms is actually an acronym?

Stand for a confusing rendition of novel yet meaningless symbols.

- Next up is an old pal from my comedy club DAYS.

He's now the king of corporate comedy and game shows, bringing laughter and comic relief to everyone, from CEOs to the workers on the front lines of corporate America.

He's also the author of the hilarious book You Can Judge A Book By Its Cover.

Please welcome the fun meister of corporate game shows and comedy, Mr. Scott Bloom!

How was that for an intro?

- That is better than I would have done.

So that's great.

Good to see you, Grover.

So it's always great to be in touch with you, but to actually be on your show here, I've been hearing so much about it for years and it's great to be with you.

- I know, because I should let folks know that we actually worked together on stage at comedy clubs but also in the corporate arena.

And then I kind of veered off into television and you went full throttle into the corporate comedy world, which a lot of people would think, how do you combine corporate and comedy?

But that's what you do.

- Well, Grover, I mean, let's face it.

You got me into the corporate comedy business.

You know, the two of us started off doing standup in northeast Philly or in the Philadelphia area, and we started to develop a friendship.

And then I had an opportunity to do...

I think the first thing we did was a corporate identity presentation for Cigna.

And I think it was you who came up with the idea, hey, let's be corporate identity experts, because you were doing all these imposter gigs where you would pretend to be a vice president of human resources or some executive.

And then, you know, there was an opportunity where someone needed a comedian to host a corporate game show.

And so I got that call and it went really well.

And then after doing that game show, people heard I did one of them and then people were pitching me as the game show guru.

So I became the go to guy to create and host game shows.

And from that I started not just hosting game shows, but hosting general sessions, corporate meetings and stuff like that.

I was able to mold my humor into that sort of corporate space.

One of the questions I think is on everyone's mind is what was it like being on Dancing with the Stars?

So it was a lot about their world, their acronyms, their language, their catchphrases.

- Yes.

- And what I found is if you make the comedy really about them and about their business, not only do they find it funny, but there's like a relationship that develops because they feel like, oh, you've actually spent some time learning about us and we really appreciate that.

- So in some ways, that's the similarity between working at a comedy club and the public and working for a corporation, is frame of reference.

- We used to do stand up at 8:00 p.m. and then I went to corporate, where I'm now trying to make people laugh at 8am and it was it was a little bit of a transition.

But, you know, as an emcee for, let's say, one of these corporate meetings, they don't normally have a professional emceeing it.

So when I started doing it, it was kind of a new concept.

And so anything that was different and bright and, you know, just an off the cuff, something that's slightly amusing became even funnier.

And what I liked about those audiences were they were smart, they were sober, you know, which was good.

They were attentive.

And they wanted to have a good time because they're going to, you know, a stodgy, you know, business meeting.

They don't expect anything.

So anything that I could bring that was, you know, exciting or funny, they appreciated.

What I found is there were a lot more fixed aspects to doing comedy in the corporate world.

You know, I knew it was a professional soundsystem.

I knew what to expect with the audiences.

And even though it was different industries, you know, it could be anything from, you know, insurance to telecommunications to, you know, banking to pharmaceutical, that at the end of the day, they're an audience that wants to have a good time.

And I guess that would be true of the comedy club as well.

Comedy I always felt was about building that relationship and being able to have a connection with the audience.

And a lot of humor is done sort of on an unconscious level.

I mean, you don't want them to have to think about the joke.

It just sort of hits them.

Then you got your ZVP, your RFP, your PMP, your OPP you know me.

This, I find, is the best comedy, is the kind that they don't have to... Not that it's dumbed down, but they don't have to process it.

It just sort of hits them.

And they're on your side because there's this relationship.

They like you, they want to laugh.

- Your personality, you're like the host... Everybody wants to go to your house because they immediately feel welcome and it's going to be fun.

- You know, you said you come to my home.

You know, this isn't really my home, right?

- Yes.

- I know everyone watching this has living room envy.

Can I blow the illusion for a second?

Sure.

Go ahead.

Sure, go ahead.

- This is not real.

This is a green screen.

I'm now on the Millennium Falcon.

I could go anywhere.

And if I wanted to, I could go into a little broadcast studio.

We can do this.

I could be in an office building.

That's sort of the transformation that I've made during the pandemic, is going to do a lot of these virtual things.

And that's been a lot of fun.

I could just have a little blank background like this.

- Right.

- And so even though I'm not with the people, I've found a way to have to now connect on, you know... - That's the real you, right?

- That is the real me.

This is my brother Chad.

I didn't expect him to show up here.

You're going to have to eat your cereal somewhere.

This is really embarrassing.

This is kind of live.

Maybe you can cut that out.

That is kind of weird.

- You have adapted to this new Zoom culture.

You know, where everyone else is scrambling and saying, oh, my goodness, we can't operate this way, you actually made it work for you.

- Well, I got to tell you, Grover, when this thing first hit, and you probably know what this is like, I've been used to, my entire career, working with an audience.

A lot of my comedy in the corporate world was interactive.

Where are my people to play off of?

And I'm my own technical director.

I got to set up a camera.

I got to do all this up.

So there was a lot of anxiety up front.

And then you start to talk to people and you start to build.

I mean, I'm in a fully working broadcast studio in my family room.

- Wow.

- Lights, camera, prompter, everything, because that's what I had to do.

I had to adapt.

And this aliveness of it or this discovery of how much fun this is is great.

It's almost like a new career right now.

I've been doing these globally.

And that's another amazing thing about this, is I was in Asia.

I was doing something in the afternoon, which was airing live the next morning in all of Asia, China, Japan, Vietnam, Thailand, or I'm in Europe during the afternoon.

And so the reach is incredible about this.

And because it's virtual, people are standing, you know, sitting in front of a little screen or in Asia a lot of times on just, you know, a little iPad or an iPhone.

So you have to find ways to engage them.

Show What You Know!

Here are your choices.

Is it: Any of those games where you get them either in the chat or polling features, you try to use as many of these interactive features as you can because they feel, oh, it's kind of cool.

I can punch, you know, tap on my screen and participate.

So you're always trying to, you know, to draw them in, and the games are a great way to do it.

- We need people like you more than ever right now because you can connect through virtually almost as strongly as you do in person.

I mean, it really comes through, and people need that connection.

- When people see that, not only do they feel special, but they see that you've put in energy, put in effort to make this experience about them.

You create this bond.

And then, you know, I've always said that, you know, a lot of my humor, let's say it was a seven.

My audiences are experiencing it at an eight or a nine because of that connection.

So I'm always trying to find different ways to connect with them.

You mentioned that I'm an author.

- Now You Can Judge A Book By Its Cover by Scott Bloom.

It's hilarious.

And it's worth a read.

- You'll get a kick out of it.

- Oh, definitely.

Definitely.

And a lot of that came from us working together, you know, 25 plus years ago.

I think we came up with some funny book titles.

The book is all about parodies of self-help and personal development, business development, book covers.

- Parody and comedy and laughter.

They describe you to the T. So, thank you, Mr. Bloom, for joining us this evening.

- Thank you, Grover.

It's been a pleasure to be on your show.

- Same here, buddy.

Scott Bloom, a corporate comic who sees laughter as his bottom line.

Well, that's all for this episode.

I want to thank my guests, magicians Danny Archer and Marty Martin, therapist Ruby Salazar and corporate funnyman Scott Bloom.

And thank you for stopping by.

Don't forget to tune in next week for more amazing guests and great conversation right here at the counter.

And stay tuned for some insightful financial musings on More Than Money with Gene Dickison.