Economic inequality is a pervasive issue in the United States.

Small businesses don't get the same tax breaks and government bailouts that massive corporations do.

But inequality isn't predicated solely on business size.

Black owned businesses are at a distinct disadvantage when compared to their white-owned counterparts.

On top of the normal challenges of running a business, black business owners must also navigate a considerable funding gap between white and black-owned businesses.

As political movements like Black Lives Matter gains steam across the country, it's important to remember that injustice goes far beyond the justice system.

The financial system has also historically discriminated against an oppressed black business owners.

That's why many activists have encouraged people to support black-owned businesses as a way to create positive change in this country.

Hello, I'm Pastor Phil Davis, the host of Courageous Conversations.

Today on the show, I will highlight two African-American entrepreneurs.

Joining me today on the show are Chayla Owens, CEO and founder of Greater Wayne Logistics, a company of trucking industry professionals who are committed to making your trucking business run smoothly.

Joseph Walters, co-owner and director of Redelynn Group, a video production company.

Don't go anywhere.

We'll be right back with these two amazing entrepreneurs.

Well, of course, welcome to the show.

We're so excited, let's jump right in.

We want to meet our guests.

We want to welcome Chayla and Joseph to the show.

Thank you both for taking time out to come and hang out with me on Courageous Conversations today.

- Absolutely.

- Thank you for having us.

- Thank you for having us.

- Oh, well, no, it's an honor and a pleasure.

And as first generation entrepreneurs, I can imagine the busyness of your life, the responsibilities that you have for yourself and your employees, meeting deadlines, making pitches right there.

All of this goes along with being an entrepreneur.

So really excited to have this discussion.

I want to jump right in Chayla.

So.

So you are in the trucking industry?

Can you talk a little bit about that?

Because historically you don't hear about women in the trucking industry, but then an African-American woman, you know, leading a company such as yours?

Can you tell us a little about what you guys do?

- So Greater Way is a trucking company, but we are just not a trucking company.

We aim to elevate, educate and empower.

We do that by having a seamless onboarding.

So we target not only the owner-operator, but the person that doesn't have any experience in the trucking industry, or the individual that is looking for passive income and just wants us to manage their trucks.

- That's pretty amazing.

As I said, how were you able to break into that industry?

I mean, it's just as I said, it's unusual to hear.

- So long story short, I had a friend that was constantly complaining about his dispatcher.

His dispatcher just was terrible, and this was at the beginning of COVID.

So I said, "Well, is your dispatcher, "you know, that bad?"

And so I just decided I said, "You know what?

"Let me do a little bit of research."

I was transitioning from having a kiosk at the mall here, so let me do a little bit of research.

Took a class.

The class really wasn't that informative, but I jumped right in.

I have a very unique story.

Everyone tells me, "Chayla, "the fact that you were able to jump in, immediately get "carriers is really a gift from God."

- That's pretty amazing.

And so, Joseph, you yourself, of course, and your wife, I believe, are co-owners of your company, Redelynn.

Can you talk a little bit about how you made the jump, right?

The leap from being an employee to being an employer and running your own business?

- Absolutely.

Well, I worked in corporate America for 10.5 years from 2006, all the way up into July 2016.

And over that time I had been, you know, stellar employee.

Once they started doing president's awards and things of that nature every single year, I think it was five or six years in a row, something like that.

You know, I was there.

I was getting the award as either the number one or the number two.

We got to a point where we were making a lot of money for the company, but they would have these secret meetings and then come back and somehow my pay would be getting cut.

And so after the third time that happened, you know, I had already been working in a side hustle mentality.

So, you know, do a video production on the side.

But I think the turning point was we did a documentary where we helped a director complete his documentary and sent it to the Martha's Vineyard African-American Film Festival, and we won HBO's best documentary award.

- Congratulations on that.

- Thank you.

Thank you.

From there, it was like, well, if we're doing this great work over here and y'all are cutting my pay over here, I'm going to gamble on myself because I know what I'm capable of and I'm going to make the jump.

So with my wife's blessings, I did it.

- Yeah, because you need the wife's blessings if you're going to, the scripture says, how can two walk together lest they be agreed, right?

- That's right.

- That's critically important.

So, Chayla, when you made the jump and you made the leap, I heard you say that you said you had a kiosk in the mall.

So have you always had this kind of entrepreneurial mind-set or have you always wanted to be a business owner?

- Yes, since I was a little girl, I started off selling lemonade and pizza.

I did fashion shows and I would charge people 50 cent.

My mother was a social worker, so I did start off in corporate America, being a social worker.

And then I just decided, you know what?

I don't want to do that.

And so my family always said, "You know what?

"You just switched careers.

You need to buckle down."

And so that's what I did.

- Wow, that's amazing.

That's amazing.

And Joseph was, you know, how about yourself?

Did you always kind of find yourself, I heard you say you had the side hustle mentality, so you were always out there grinding.

So was it a was it an easy move for you to leave corporate America?

What were some of the challenges?

Oh, OK. What were some of the challenges that you had?

- There were so many obstacles.

The first was, so when I left, my wife and I were not married at that time.

We were, you know, we had just got engaged.

And the very first thing I do after getting engaged is I leave my great paying corporate America job.

- So that wasn't popular with the family, right?

- Oh, no.

Not at all.

Not at all.

On either side.

My parents were looking at me like I was crazy and, you know, also like, you know, you are going to be OK?

But you know, I took basically everything that I that I saved in my 401(k), put it into the company, made sure that we were good to go.

And I mean, it didn't jump right off the gate.

You know, I had to stay hustling.

Pretty much.

And, you know, two years in the red, like the deep red, led to a third year where we broke even and ever since that third year, you know, it's been kind of moving forward.

But to get back to your original question, did I always have to hustle?

Yeah, yeah.

Did I see it growing up?

Absolutely.

You know, my dad was in the Marines.

My mother was a teacher.

But, you know, because of, I guess, the lifestyle that we were living, there was always something else that had to get done.

So, you know, my dad on the side, he would, you know, wash cars and detail vehicles and things of that nature.

And then my mum would tutor.

So, you know, I've always seen it somehow, some way in my life.

- That's interesting.

That's so true.

But you talk about the influence of your parents, Chayla, you said your mum was a social worker.

Joseph, you said, you know, your dad was a military man and your mum, of course, worked.

And it's amazing the power of our households and the influence that our parents have on us.

And the work ethics that they instilled.

And you find yourself, you know, you see dad detailing cars.

You're figuring out how to do it yourself.

You know, it's interesting.

You said that you took money from your 401(k).

You know, there are statistics that say that African-Americans, about 40 to 45% of African-Americans end up funding their business with their own cash because or, you know, loans from family members or wherever they can find it, because there's a historic understanding in the banking industry that it's harder for African-Americans to get loans.

And when we do get loans, the statistics say that it's $30,000 less and the interest rates are higher.

Right.

So we know that there's a systemic part to it all that does not encourage African-Americans to launch out and to actually start their own enterprise.

Chayla, how about yourself?

How did you start the business?

Where did you find the resources and the income or the revenue to get it done?

- I like to tell people the freight dispatching portion of logistics.

You can start it and be successful under $2,000.

And that's the great thing.

This has probably been the only business that I was able to launch, the freight dispatching portion under that amount of money.

So of course, I had savings and things of that nature, but the classes are pretty cost-effective.

The mentorships are pretty cost-effective.

So I like to tell people, if you're going to do it, don't be afraid.

If you're looking to launch something, see if you can do it with under that $2,500 and get that immediate return investment because as soon as I invested in myself, I signed on a carrier.

I received my return investment within a month.

- That's amazing, right?

I mean, because, yeah, you know, you heard Joseph talk about, you know, having to struggle for a couple of years and being underwater and having to deal.

Because I think, what people don't understand is that when you're an entrepreneur, if you don't, if it don't work, you don't eat.

So you got to find a way to you, got to find a way to make it work.

You got to knock on doors, you got to do the work and it speaks to a level of character, integrity, stick-to-it-iveness, drive, to get out there and to not give up.

Now, Joseph, I understand that you actually worked with Pharrell Williams and, you know, helped him produce some stuff as well.

Can you share a little bit about how you kind of were able to enter into that space?

- Yeah, absolutely.

So my wife works for his nonprofit, which at the time was From One Hand To Another.

They've since changed to Yellow.

That's the name of their nonprofit.

Excuse me.

And you know, he when he was putting together the Something in the Water festival, my wife was approached because, you know, they know that on the side, we have a, well, on the side for her, we have a production company.

And you know, at the time, we had only done, you know, commercials, documentaries, TV shows, things that, we'd never done a live production.

And you know, I said, "I do a little work in the church.

"How hard could it be?"

Right?

And so I was... - If you can work in the church, you can work anywhere, brother.

I believe it.

- Exactly.

So you know, one thing, I went to Hampton University and one of the things that I was taught outside of class was say yes.

Figure it out later.

Right?

That's how you took advantage of your opportunities.

- That's how I ended up here.

So.

- So I said yes.

They told us exactly what we need.

And then I had a lot of research that I had to do, and then I had to make sure that I had the proper team in place as well.

Fortunately for us, we work with a great group of guys in this area that are all very well versed in production.

So, you know, we have audio, we have lighting, we've got cameras, we got producers, we got all of that stuff.

And, yeah, we made it happen and everybody had a great time.

It was fantastic.

- That's pretty amazing.

When you talk about going from working in corporate America to working with, of course, one of the most famous, you know, artists on the planet.

Essentially, Pharrell has a wonderful reach and he crosses all genres, you know, with the work that he does.

That's pretty amazing.

So, so, Chayla, you now are running this business.

You're an African-American female.

Have you had to deal with that moment where you're dealing with maybe some non-African-Americans or those who are not in the black community and have felt some level of pushback or, you know, just not being received well as an African-American business owner?

- So I will say that fortunately, I have not.

Because this is an industry that is based off of productivity and getting a load covered, finding a load and finding a person that can movement.

A lot of conversation is via the telephone.

So based off a voice, based off of productivity, based off of just being able to get the job done, I have not had that issue.

Also with this industry, they are constantly trying to work with DBE, you know, double minority business enterprises.

So I've been very, very fortunate to not get that pushback as I transitioned into the brokerage.

I do know that I probably will start to experience that because that is more face-to-face.

That is the more doing more research about who I am and what it is that I stand for.

- Yeah, I have a friend who did his whole dissertation on what they call code switching, right?

So being able to change your dialect and how you talk, even the vernacular and the words that you utilize because the phone is protective, right?

You know.

So, all right, let's just be real.

So have you had to be in that space?

Have you felt, either one of you guys, let me come over to Joseph and I'll come back to Chayla.

How about yourself, Joseph?

- Oh, absolutely.

Matter of fact, I was on the phone with my cousin the other day, and you know, he's a little rough around the edges.

But I was walking into an establishment where I had to code switch.

And so, you know, he hears me on the phone, go from talking one way to as soon as I walk into this place, he's like, "You know, you got to teach me how to do that."

Like, it's something that you just pick up, like when you know, working, working with the Something in the Water festiva, that was, for me, almost, I don't even want to call it culture shock.

Because I've worked in diverse spaces, but for that particular event?

there were some adjustments that needed to be made on my behalf.

And then, you know, everybody was fine, but, you know, code switching, it helps you get the job done.

It allows you to relate to folks.

It doesn't feel fake.

You know, that's what I think, that's the biggest thing.

You want to be a genuine as possible just, you know, using other words, you know.

- Not bro or, homie, right?

- Exactly.

- And for my viewers who may not be from the African-American community, you don't know what code switching is, code switching is where African-Americans have to change their posture and their articulation many times to feel accepted by the dominant culture or the white community.

Chayla, what about you, share about your experience.

- Oh, so of course, so most of my drivers of are African-American descent.

So, you know, I'm talking to them and I'll say, "Why don't "you pick up the load?

What's going on?

"You got to do better."

And then the minute I speak with the broker, I'm like, "Yes", you know, "We will be there on time and this is what "we have to do."

So I could be walking in the mall and you see me, my head's going and I'm like, "You need to do better."

And then I'm clicking over and I am going right into straight business.

And that is something that I actually teach my carriers because a lot of them come from not the corporate background, they're coming from, these are ex-felons.

These are people that don't have the traditional four degree education.

So that is something that I actually coached them towards of code switching.

You have to code switch, in order to thrive and be productive in this industry.

- And you know, you know what's funny?

Code switching is not really necessary for those who are not in the minority community.

Right.

And so, you know, some people would say it's a strength to be able to integrate into any community that you walk into.

And I do agree with that.

But the sad part about it is that it's only required of those who are not of the dominant society.

And it is, of course.

So I mean, what are your thoughts about that, that it's really only black and brown folks that are the ones that have to code switch.

- So what's funny about that is that, and I'll reference Something in the Water again, just because that was like the most diverse.

Normally I'm working with African-Americans.

But Something in the Water, even though I didn't feel weird because I code switch, I found some of my Caucasian counterparts, they would, "Hey, what's up, bro?"

"What's going on?

What's up, dog?"

You know, so... - You're like "Hello, how are "you?"

- Right, right?

It's one of those.

It's one of those balancing acts.

It's like, you know, you don't want to be too comfortable, but at the same time, you want to want to make others feel comfortable.

So if you engage me in a certain way, I'm going to return that same energy.

And, you know, we'll just have a great conversation.

I'll enjoy your presence.

- That's cool.

Thank you for your honesty.

A lot of times, and that's why we call it Courageous Conversations, right?

We don't want to come on here and, you know, give platitudes.

We want to really talk about the issues that challenge us.

But through all of that, the both of you have been able to navigate and do very well in your business.

So Chayla, for you.

What do you think was the determining drive for you to kind of navigate through the challenges and really find a space that you as an African-American woman can be successful in?

- So one of my favorite quotes by Marva Collins says, "Society will draw a circle that shuts you out, but your "superior thoughts must draw you in."

So for me, it failure isn't an option.

I tell people.

Have a plan, have a vision and stick to it, as long as you have a vision and you have a plan and you've done your proper research, you will succeed.

This industry is very tumultuous.

One minute you can be at a month where you're like, "Oh, my God, "this was great.

We did exceptionally well."

Another time you're like, "What happened?

"What's going on?"

This industry is ebbs and flows.

It can become very, very scary where you're like, what is happening?

So for me, it has been extremely important to make sure that I am ahead of the game and I'm constantly researching, looking at the weather, looking at the trend of what's going on with the oil.

Looking at the trend of what's going on with consumer goods and the buying of goods and services.

It really has been based on me doing my research, making sure that I'm educating my employees on how the economy can affect our industry.

Everything that comes to our house has arrived on a truck, but given what's going on this world, that could particularly change.

Yes, we are virtual, but what happens if we are attacked virtually or things of that nature?

So it's always creating a backup plan and having a pivot, knowing that, hey, any time we may have to pivot.

- That's great.

So, so really, being able to be flexible, paying attention to kind of the movement of society and what's happening in the world.

So Joe, it's kind of the same question to you, but can you also talk a little bit about how COVID affected your business?

Because our statistics show that significantly, African-American businesses were hit harder than any other demographic of people during COVID.

So, yeah, if you could share in that space, that'd be helpful.

- So, oddly enough, COVID was the greatest thing that could have ever happened to our business.

- OK. - You know, because, then let me preface this by saying the first few weeks when everybody was trying to figure it out were probably the roughest because we had productions that were set that were getting canceled left and right.

Because, hey, we can't, we can't get together.

We can't convene.

Moving forward, once folks started realizing, hey, we can hop on Zoom, we can hop Google meets, we can hop on face time, we can do this, we can do that.

Folks got the gears turning, ideas started spinning and then we were able to take advantage of technology.

And it seemed like every day for almost.

what seemed like six to seven months somebody has something that they wanted to do virtually.

So, you know, we got very well versed in the virtual space.

We did a great job with, excuse me, with producing a ton of virtual events.

Yeah.

COVID was good.

- Wow, you guys.

- It was bad, but it was... - Yeah.

Yeah.

But you guys were able to remake yourself, right?

And you know, one of the benefits for us as a church is we were already online.

We were already utilizing Facebook and YouTube.

You know, my millennials, thanks to them, you know, three years ago, we were already online.

So when it hit and we had to go to a virtual space, we were already prepared and ready.

But we needed to have the courage to make a shift.

Really, we didn't have a choice, like you're going online or you're closing your doors.

You know what I'm saying?

So it absolutely is imperative as leaders and as entrepreneurs to be able to be flexible and to be able to respond to crisis events that may come your way.

Chayla, if you if you can think about a young person that's out there who you know, may not have a full plan, but maybe has a desire to become a business owner, what would you say to them?

How would you inspire them?

I know you talked about having a plan and having a vision and staying true to it, but what other practical advice would you be able to give?

- Something that I would tell someone that doesn't have the support at home or just don't know where to do.

Don't be afraid to ask questions.

I think a lot of times in our community we can be a bit prideful or think that, OK, there's no resources for me.

You know, I tell people, check out your local small business administration, ask your guidance counselor.

There are a lot of different resources that can help people to launch something.

Also, in the midst of launching it is extremely, extremely scary.

It's like you're walking out on the cliff.

You don't know what the bottom looks like, but I tell people it's all about a temporary inconvenience for a permanent improvement.

The not knowing part, I think, is the most challenging part, the not knowing how the who, the what and the when.

But if we're constantly asking questions, you're looking for mentorship, you will thrive, especially if you're doing purpose driven work.

- That's good.

That's good.

And Joseph, as a as a black male, there are so many stereotypes out there that depict us as not having capacity.

Not intelligent, not capable.

What would you say to a young black man who may have a desire to step out and, you know, become his own boss and, you know, become an entrepreneur?

- So there's one quote that stuck with me from a gentleman that I met years ago, and it was, "I fear neither man "nor beast."

And that particular quote means that you should not be scared of anything or scared to do anything, scared to say anything.

I teach entrepreneurship to the mentees of the 100 black men of South Metro down in Atlanta.

- That's great.

- And one thing that I always tell them is be confident in who you are.

Confidence can get you into rooms that smarts cannot.

If you walk around like you are the king or you don't care who the king is, that is going to take you further than what you know.

You know, that you were taught in school.

- Sure, sure.

-So, you know, that's what I always tell my young guys.

- Yeah, that's great.

I mean, that's great advice because, you know, what's depicted before us often are pictures that are not supportive of a successful journey, right?

What the media does is put, you know, thugs and drug dealers and hustlers and, you know, people who are disrespecting one another, but they don't give enough positive pictures of black individuals or brown individuals who are accomplishing the kind of things that you are accomplishing, the work that you're doing.

And I'm so glad to hear that you're giving back to your community, that is so very important.

So Chayla, what does it mean to you to be your own boss?

- So being your own boss is... - We got about a minute left.

- It's about being a leader, being a leader, being intentional, knowing that your decisions that you make affect everyone around you and it must be purpose driven work.

It's not about the money, it's about the call.

- That's good.

- That is about being a boss.

What about you, Joe?

What does it mean to you, sir?

- Being my own boss means freedom.

That is absolute freedom.

I'm free to spend as much time as I want with my daughter, with my family, my friends, I can do what I want.

So essentially being free.

- That's awesome.

Listen, I told you guys it was going to go quick.

I can't believe our time is over.

I really enjoyed it.

I feel like we were just kind of sitting in the living room, chatting it up a little bit.

I like to thank you both for taking the time to come on the show today for joining me on Courageous Conversations.

You stand as shining examples to those in the black community that you can own your own business and be successful.

On behalf of everyone here at PBS39, I'd like to say thank you and God bless to our viewing audience.

We'll see you next week.

Keep being courageous.