SUPPORT FOR CONVERSATIONS LIVE COMES FROM... GOOD EVENING.

AND WELCOME TO WPSU'S CONVERSATION LIVE COVID-19, COMING TO YOU LIVE FROM THE WPSU PRODUCTION STUDIO.

I'M ANN.

WE ARE IN THE SECOND YEAR OF THE COVID-19 PICK PANDEMIC AND THE PICTURE CONTINUES TO CHANGE.

HOW WORRIED SHOULD WE BE ABOUT BREAKTHROUGH CASES?

DO YOU NEED TO GET A VACCINE BOOSTER SHOT?

WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO HELP CHILDREN CONTINUE TO GROW AND THRIVE THRIVE WHILE KEEPING THEM AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE.

JOINING US TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS IS KAREN BIERMAN, EVAN PUGH PROFESSOR AND DIRECTOR OF THE CHILD STUDY CENTER AT PENN STATE.

MATT FERRARI IS A PROFESSOR OF BIOLOGY AND DIRECTOR OF PENN STATE'S CENTER FOR INFECT DOES DISEASE DYNAMIC AND Dr. JONATHAN NUNEZ, IS A PHYSICIAN AT PENN STATE HEALTH.

YOU CAN JOIN OUR CONVERSATION.

OUR TOLL FREE NUMBER IS 1-814-865-2124.

AND OUR EMAIL ADDRESS IS CONNECT@WPSU.ORG.

WELL THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT THIS DIFFICULT AND ONGOING TOPIC.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE HAVING YOU HERE.

>> CAN YOU START US OFF BY GIVING US A BIG PICTURE OVERVIEW OF WHERE THINGS STAND IN THE PANDEMIC PARTICULARLY PENNSYLVANIA AND CENTRAL PENNSYLVANIA.

HOW ARE WE DOING AS WE TRY TO PUSH THROUGH THIS PANDEMIC AND WHAT IS THE OVERALL OUTLOOK AS WE MOVE INTO THE WINTER?

>> THINGS ARE MORE POSITIVE NOW THAN THEY HAVE BEEN AT ANY POINT IN THE PAST.

VACCINATION COVERAGE HAS BEEN INCREASING ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND THAT'S REALLY DRAMATICALLY REDUCED THE NUMBER OF HOSPITALIZATIONS AND DEATHS ASSOCIATED WITH COVID.

WE HAVE SEEN THAT IN THE COURSE OF THE FOURTH WAVE WE SAW NOT AS MANY PEOPLE WHO NEEDED HOSPITALIZATION AND THE NUMBERS OF DEATHS WERE QUITE A BIT LOWER IN THIS LAST WAVE.

THE CHALLENGE OF COURSE IS THAT THERE HAS CERTAINLY BEEN A FOURTH WAVE AND WE HAVE SEEN A RESURGENCE OF CASES THAT HAS SPREAD THROUGHOUT THE STATE AND WE ARE SEEING SIMILAR PATTERNS AS WE HAVE SEEN IN THE PAST WHERE THE TRANSMISSION AND CASES HAVE MOSTLY STARTED IN THE MORE POPULOUS AND HIGH DENSITY PLACES AND SLOWLY SPREADING OUT AND PERCOLATING TO MORE RURAL PLACES AND LESS DENSE PLACE AS ROUND THE STATE WHO HAVE TYPICALLY BEEN HIT LAST AND OFTEN TIMES NOT NECESSARILY HARDEST, BUT CERTAINLY HAVE BEEN HIT HARD, YOU KNOW, ON THE TAIL END OF THE WAVES.

SO I THINK THAT RIGHT NOW, AS THIS FOURTH WAVE HAS SORT OF STARTED TO PLATEAU A LITTLE BIT, WE ARE STARTING TO SEE MORE CASES NOW IN SOME OF OUR RURAL AND OUTLYING COMMUNITIES.

WE ARE STILL SEEING HIGH NUMBERS OF PEEP IN HOSPITALS AS SOME OF THAT IS CATCHING UP.

SO, YOU KNOW, THERE IS STILL CONCERN TO BE HAD, BUT, YOU KNOW, COMPARED TO THE WAVES THAT WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST, THIS FOURTH WAVE HASN'T BEEN QUITE AS SEVERE AND I THINK THAT'S A TESTAMENT TO THE EFFORTS THAT HAVE BEEN PUT FORTH AND THE VACCINATION, YOU KNOW, THE BROAD DISTRIBUTION OF VACCINATION THAT WE'VE HAD.

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GETTING VACCINATED.

FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN FULLY VACCINATED, DO THEY NEED TO WORRY ABOUT BREAKTHROUGH CASES?

IS THERE STILL REASON TO BE CONCERNED IF YOU HAVE BEEN VACCINATED THAT YOU STILL NEED TO TAKE PRECAUTIONS AND BE WORRIED THAT OKAY, I COULD STILL GET COVID-19?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

AS I MENTION TO MOST OF MY PATIENTS IN INTERNAL MEDICINE AND INFECTIOUS DISEASE, NO VANE IS 100% EFFECTIVE.

THERE ARE SOME INFECTIONS IN FULLY VACCINATED INDIVIDUALS BUT WHEN YOU COMPARE INFECTION AFTER VACCINATION, IT OCCURS MUCH LESS FREQUENTLY THAN INFECTION IN UNVACCINATED INDIVIDUALS.

SO AS WE HAVE BEEN GETTING MORE REAL WORLD DATA, THERE HAS BEEN SOME VARIATION IN PROTECTION WITH SOME OF THE VACCINES BUT I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS TO HIGHLIGHT IS THAT IT IS STILL PREVENTED SUBSTANTIAL PROTECTION AGAINST HOSPITALIZATIONS.

AND I THINK THAT'S THE BIG THING TO FOCUS ON COMPARED TO THE EARLIER PART OF THE PANDEMIC.

WE ARE TRYING TO KEEP THE HOSPITALS OPEN.

WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE TAKE CARE OF PATIENTS BOTH WITH COVID-19 AND PATIENTS THAT NEED TO BE HOSPITALIZED WITH OTHER MEDICAL CONDITIONS.

I THINK ONE OF THE BIG THINGS WITH THE DELTA VARIANT AS I MENTION TO PATIENTS WHO STILL HAVE SOME HESITANCY WITH VACCINATING, I MENTION THE PANDEMIC HAS CHANGED WITHIN THE LAST YEAR.

YOU MAY NOT HAVE HAD CASES OR A CASE OF COVID-19 EARLY IN THE PANDEMIC, IT IS CAUSING MORE INFECTION AND SPREADING FASTER.

I DESCRIBE IT ACTUALLY LIKE AN 80s MOVIE ACTION STAR LIKE COVID NOW ON STEROIDS.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS I MENTION IS THAT UNVACCINATED PEOPLE REMAIN TO BE THE GREATEST CONCERN AND WHEN I THINK ABOUT FULLY VACCINATED PEOPLE, IT CAN STILL OCCUR, BUT YOU KNOW, AND WITH THE SAME VIRAL GENETIC MATERIAL FOUND AMONG BOTH VACCINATED AND NON-VACCINATED BUT THEY TEND TO HAVE FEWER SYMPTOMS AND THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT THEY'RE SHEDDING VIRUS IS A LITTLE LESS AS WELL.

I THINK ONE OF THE BIG THINGS AGAIN IS JUST TRYING TO PREVENT HOSPITALIZATIONS.

SO I THINK EVEN AS WE GET CONCERNED ABOUT BREAKTHROUGH CASES, VACCINATION IS THE BEST WAY TO PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR COMMUNITY AND FAMILY.

>> EVEN IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN VACCINATED AND YOU ARE SAYING PEOPLE VACCINATED ARE GETTING TICK, THEY TEND TO GET LESS SICK AND IT'S NOT A GOOD REASON TO NOT GET VACCINATED?

>> THERE HAVE BEEN MUCH STUDIES AND DATA COMING FROM THE CDC COMPARING PATIENTS WHO HAVE HAVE BEEN UNVACCINATED AND THEIR RATE TO BEING HOSPITALIZED IS 10 TO 11 TIMES MORE.

RIGHT NOW A MAJORITY OF OUR PATIENTS WHO ARE ACTUALLY BEING ADMITTED TO THE HOSPITAL, I WOULD SAY, A MAJORITY OF GREATER THAN 95% ARE ACTUALLY UNVACCINATED.

AND A BIG DIFFERENCE FROM THE PANDEMIC FROM A YEAR AGO OR, WELL, EVEN A YEAR AND A HALF AGO IS THAT MOST OF MY PATIENTS ARE COMING IN ARE MUCH YOUNGER, SO BEFORE VACCINE, I WOULD EXPECT TO HAVE SEEN MANY PATIENTS COMING FROM NURSING HOMES.

NOW I WOULD SAY A GOOD MARKET OF MAJORITY OF MY PATIENTS ARE UNDER THE AGE OF 60 AND MANY ARE UNDER THE AGE OF 40 ARE BEING ADMITTED AND THE DIFFERENCE IS ALSO MANY OF THEM ARE REQUIRING HIGH AMOUNT OF MEDICAL CARE, WHICH WE USUALLY REFER TO BEING IN THE INTENSIVE CARE UNIT.

>> PROFESSOR BIERMAN, ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO CANNOT BEEN VACCINATED IS UNDER 12.

KIDS ARE NOT ABLE TO GET VACCINATED UNTIL THEY TURN 12 YEARS OLD.

I IMAGINE THAT IS CAUSING A LOT OF STRESS FOR PARENTS, FOR FAMILIES, FOR TEACHERS AND OTHER PEOPLE WHO WORK WITH CHILDREN.

WHAT TYPE OF AADVICE OR RECOMMENDATIONS AS THEY APPROACH THE SITUATION WOULD YOU HAVE FOR FAMILIES CONCERNED IF THEY CAN'T GET VACCINATED YET GUT THEY WANT THEM TO GO TO SCHOOL AND PARTICIPATE IN ACTIVITIES?

HOW CAN YOU SORT YOUR WAY THROUGH THAT?

>> SO I WOULDN'T GIVE PEOPLE MEDICAL ADVICE.

I'M GOING TO TURN TO MY COLLEAGUES FOR THAT, BUT AS FAR AS THE PUSH TO GET KIDS BACK IN SCHOOL AND BACK BEING ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN ACTIVITIES, I THINK THAT'S A HUGE MOTIVATION OF PARENTS.

AND TEACHERS AND REALLY ALL OF US WHO ARE WHO WORK PROFESSIONALLY WITH CHILDREN, SO MANY IMPORTANT ASPECTS OF DEVELOPMENT RELY ON CHILDREN ON BEING ABLE TO INTERACT WITH THEIR PEERS, BEING ABLE TO LEARN SOCIAL SKILLS, BEING ABLE TO FEEL COMFORTABLE IN SOCIAL CONTEXT, GET ALONG IN A GREW.

AND MIEF HIVE IN A GROUP AND SO FORTH AND SO IT'S BEEN EXCITING TO SEE THE PROGRESS THAT HAS BEEN MADE.

CERTAINLY A LOT LARGER PROPORTION OF CHILDREN ARE ABLE TO BE BACK IN SCHOOL WITH PRECAUTIONS AND MASKING IN PLACE.

AND THAT'S EXCITING.

THAT'S A REALLY POSITIVE PROGRESS FOR THEM.

I THINK THAT ISSUES THAT RISING RATES OF COVID AMONG CHILDREN, THOSE ARE ALARMING AND PARENTS DEFINITELY NEED TO BE THE GATEKEEPERS, YOU KNOW, OF LOOKING AT EACH SITUATION, WHAT ARE THE PROTECTIONS IN PLACE, WHAT'S THE LEVEL OF RISK IN PLACE TO DECIDE HOW COMFORTABLE THEY FEEL.

BUT IT'S CERTAINLY A MAJOR GOAL TO AIM FOR IS LOOKING FOR THOSE OPPORTUNITIES THAT ARE AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE BUT GIVE CHILDREN THE CHANCE TO INTERACT WITH FRIENDS AND WITH OTHER CHILDREN IN THESE GROUP SETTINGS AND ACTIVITY SETTINGS.

>> THOSE ARE SOME GREAT IDEAS AND WE HAVE A CALL AND THIS IS FROM SUSAN IN STATE COLLEGE.

HI SUSAN.

THANK YOU FOR CALLING AND WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION?

>> MY QUESTION IS CONCERNING THE FLU SHOT FOR US WHO-- WELL SOME OF US, MOST OF US I HOPE, THAT HAVE HAD OUR OUR VACCINATION SHOTS, IS THERE ANY REASON NOT TO GET THE FLU SHOT OR DOES THE FLU SHOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE VACCINATION?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I'M GOING TO PUT THIS ONE TO START WITH TO PROFESSOR FERRARI.

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS.

THE FLU SHOT, IT IS IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN VACCINATED TO GET A FLU SHOT, RIGHT?

>> IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE ENTIRE POPULATION FOR ALL OF US TO GET OUR FLU VACCINATIONS IN ADDITIONS TO COVID-19 VACCINATION.

AS Dr. NUNEZ HAS MENTIONED, ONE OF THE REAL CONCERNS IS OVER BURDENING OUR HOSPITAL SYSTEMS AND IF LOTS OF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, WE ARE USED TO A WINTER FLU SEASON WHERE MANY PEOPLE GET SICK AND HAVE TO GO TO THE DOCTOR AND SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE NEED TO BE ADMITTED.

AND SO, IF EVERYBODY CAN GET THE FLU VACCINE NOW, THAT'S GOING TO LESSEN THAT POTENTIAL BURDEN GOING FORWARD AND THERE IS MORE CAPACITY TO HANDLE ANY POTENTIAL THAT WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, ANY POTENTIAL EXCESS DISEASE BECAUSE OF COVID.

SO JUST AS WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FLATTEN THE CURVE OVER THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF NOW AND TRYING TO SUPPORT OUR MEDICAL INSTITUTIONS, RIGHT, GETTING A VACCINE NOW FOR FLU IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE BEST THINGS YOU CAN DO TO SUPPORT OUR FRONT LINE HEALTH WORKERS.

AND MEDICAL INSTITUTIONS GOING FORWARD.

>> Dr. NUNEZ, ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD ABOUT GETTING A FLU SHOT THIS YEAR?

SOMETIMES PEOPLE ARE HESITANT TO GET THE FLU SHOT LIKE THEY CAN BE WITH THE VACCINE.

>> I WOULD ECHO A LOT OF THE SAME.

I THINK ONE OF THE BIG THINGS ALSO, ALTHOUGH RARE TO HAVE THROUGH INFECTION, WE HAVE SEEN PEOPLE WHO HAVE BOTH FLU AND COVID AND THINKING ABOUT THE COMPLICATIONS IN THOSE PATIENTS, THEY WERE MUCH MORE SEVERE, HOSPITALIZED FOR A MUCH LONGER TIME AND REQUIRED INTEREST INTUBATION FOR A LONGER TIME.

LAST YEAR WAS REALLY A FLUKE WITH FLU.

I THINK MANY FELT THAT LAST YEAR WELL WHY GET VACCINATED.

THERE WASN'T MUCH EPISODES OF FLU AND I WOULD SAY THE BIG DIFFERENCE NOW COMPARED TO LAST YEAR, THERE IS MANY OF US MASKING AND ONE OF THE BIG THINGS TO HIGHLIGHT IS AGAIN, WE ARE TRYING TO NOT OVERBURDEN THE HOSPITAL SYSTEM SO THAT WE CAN STILL TAKE CARE OF PATIENTS THAT COME IN WITH MEDICAL CONDITIONS THAT NEED TO BE SEEN.

THEY'RE NOT RELATED TO COVID.

>> SOME GREAT ADVICE.

WELL, WE HAVE ANOTHER CALL.

AND THIS ONE IS FROM THOMAS.

HI THOMAS.

THANK YOU FOR CALLING AND DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION?

>> AGREE.

WHY DON'T THEY KEEP US WEARING MASKS AND BE, YOU KNOW, BEING SEPARATED?

BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT IT STOPS THE VIRUS FROM SPREADING.

AND THEN WHAT ABOUT ANTISEPTIC MOUTH WASH?

THIS WAY HERE, YOU'RE KILLING THE GERMS BREATHING IN AND BREATHING OUT.

>> SO KIND OF A TWO-PART QUESTION.

MASKING AND SEPARATION?

SHOULD WE CONTINUE TO BE SEPARATED IS THE BEST WAY TO NOT SPREAD THE VIRUS?

AND ANTISEPTIC MOUTH WASH, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S EFFECTIVE, Dr. NUNEZ, DO YOU WANT TO START US OFF?

>> SO THINKING ABOUT MASKING, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS I HIGHLIGHT TO EVERYONE, IT'S EASY TO WANT TO FORGET WE ARE IN A PANDEMIC.

THE REALIZATION IS THAT WE ARE NOT OUTSIDE OF A PANDEMIC.

SO I THINK ONE OF THE BIG THINGS AS WE TALK ABOUT MASKING WITH MY PATIENTS, I THINK ONE THING TO HIGHLIGHT WAS THE CLUSTER OF CASES THAT REALLY OCCURRED AROUND PROVINCETOWN MASSACHUSETTS OVER THE SUMMER.

THE AREA HIGHLY VACCINATED.

THERE WAS A LOT OF ACTIVITIES AT THAT TIME THAT WERE, YOU KNOW, IGNORING THE SOCIAL PRECAUTIONS, I THINK NOT WEARING MASKS WHEN INDOORS AND WHAT WAS SURPRISING WAS RECOGNIZING THAT THERE WAS A HIGH AMOUNT OF CASES THAT CAME FROM THAT.

AND I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE BIG THINGS THAT REALLY LED CDC TO COME BACK AND THINK MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK ABOUT MASKING.

ONE OF THE THINGS I HIGHLIGHT TO MY PATIENTS, IF YOU ARE GOING TO TRAVEL TO AN AREA THAT IS HIGHLY UNVACCINATED, I RECOMMEND MASKING.

FOR ME THERE ARE SOME OF MY OWN FAMILY MEMBERS WHO HAVE EXPRESSED HESITANCY TO BE VACCINATED.

I STILL TAKE SOCIAL PRECAUTIONS WITH THEM.

I STILL WEAR MASKING WITH MYSELF AND MY KIDS MOSTLY BECAUSE I ALSO HAVE TO PROTECT MY PARENTS AND MY GRANDMOTHER.

SO I THINK ONE OF THE BIG THINGS I WOULD MENTION IS THAT I DON'T THINK THE SOCIAL PRECAUTIONS HAVE GONE AWAY.

I THINK THE WAY TO LIMIT INFECTION IS TO CONTINUE TO MASK, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT GOING TO AREAS WITH HIGH RISK OF TRANSMISSION.

AS FOR THE SECOND QUESTION, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE MOUTH WASH, THERE HAS BEEN SOME EVIDENCE AND EVEN SOME STUDIES AT THE UNIVERSITY-- A COLLABORATION BETWEEN THE TWO, LOOKING AT HOW IT DECREASES THE BURDEN OF DISEASE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT COME UP IS THAT WE STILL ARE SHEDDING VIRUS EVEN BEFORE WE MAY HAVE FEVERS SO ONE OF THE BIG THINGS IS THAT'S ONE OF THE CONCERNS WITH COVID-19 DISEASE.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, A COMBINATION OF JUST LAYERING OF PROTECTIONS WILL HELP US.

SO AGAIN I ALWAYS COME BACK TO, LIKE ONE OF THE BIGGEST TOOLS WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IS BEING VACCINATED AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, STILL TRYING TO TAKE PRECAUTIONS AGAINST BEING IN AN AREA THAT MIGHT HAVE HIGH RATES OF TRANSMISSION.

>> YEAH, THAT'S SOME GREAT ADVICE, PROFESSOR DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD ON THAT FRONT?

>> YES, AGAIN, I THINK THAT THE KINDS OF PRECAUTIONS WE WANT TO TAKE HERE ARE ONES THAT ARE GOING TO BE EFFECTIVE AND BROAD AS POSSIBLE.

SO VACCINATION IS FANTASTIC BECAUSE IT PROTECTS YOU SYSTEMICALLY AND IN ALL SITUATIONS THAT YOU ARE IN THEREAFTER.

MASKING AS WELL.

IT'S BROAD SCALE.

IT HELPS YOU IN ANY OF YOUR INTERACTIONS THAT YOU'VE GOT GOING ON AND SIMILARLY, JUST MAINTAINING GENERAL DISTANCE, RIGHT?

I THINK THAT NO ONE IS SAYING THAT WE ALL NEED TO CROWD BACK INTO ROOMS AGAIN.

WE CAN SORT OF TAKE SOME OF THIS ON A LITTLE BIT AND JUST TRY AND REDUCE THE RISK THAT WE'VE GOT GOING ON NOW.

REALLY KINDS OF SORT OF A CUTE ACTIVITY LIKE ANTISEPTIC MOUTH WASH, THAT'S AFFECTING SOMETHING IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME FSM YOUR BODY IS SHEDDING VIRUS, IT WILL BE SHEDDING VIRUS 10 MINUTES LATER SO THINGS LIKE THAT AREN'T TERRIFICALLY HELPFUL AND, YOU KNOW, I WOULDN'T REALLY CONCERN MYSELF WITH THAT AS PART OF THE QUIVER OF THE TOOLS IN THE QUIVER FOR CONTROLLING COVID, BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, VACCINATION IS A GREAT FIRST LINE, MASKING, WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO INCREASE YOUR LEVEL OF PROTECTION IF YOU FIND YOURSELF IN SETTINGS OF HIGH RISK LIKE IN A STRANGE COMMUNITY WITH FOLKS WHOSE VACCINE STATUS YOU DON'T KNOW.

OR IN A CROWDED SITUATION.

THE MASK IS A GREAT WAY TO UP YOUR PROTECTION AND THEN BROAD SCALE THINKING ABOUT THE KINDS OF ACTIVITIES YOU TAKE ON.

TRYING TO AVOID CROWDED SPACES, MOVING ACTIVITIES OUTSIDE IF POSSIBLE, RIGHT?

I'VE MOVED A LOT OF MY SOCIAL ACTIVITIES OUTSIDE AS MUCH AS I CAN SO AS LONG AS IT'S NOT RAINING AND I'VE GOT A GOOD ENOUGH COAT, WE CAN BE OUTSIDE AND THAT'S AGAIN JUST TRYING TO MODULATE MANY OF THE ACTIVITIES WE ARE TAKING ON FROM DAY TO DAY AND TRYING TO SORT OF PUSH THEM IN A LOWER RISK DIRECTION.

>> WELL, AND PROFESSOR, WHAT ABOUT KIDS WHO MIGHT BE CONFUSED WHY DO HAVE I TO WAWR A MASK, DO HAVE I TO WEAR ONE OUTSIDE OR INSIDE?

I GUESS IT DEPENDS ON HOW OLD THE CHILDREN ARE ASKING THE QUESTIONS BUT HOW CAN PARENTS DISCUSS THIS IN WAYS THAT MAKE SENSE THAT HAPPENED DOESN'T SEEM LIKE TOO MUCH OF A BURDEN.

>> I THINK KIDS ARE PRETTY FLEXIBLE ABOUT MASKING IF THE PEOPLE AROUND THEM ARE MASKING, THAT THEY'LL TAKE THEIR CUES FROM WHAT THE ADULTS ARE DOING, WHAT THE OTHER KIDS IN THE SETTING ARE DOING.

I THINK IT'S A TOUGH SITUATION, FOR EXAMPLE, IN A SCHOOL WHERE SOME KIDS OF MASKING AND SOME AREN'T.

THAT CREATES A LITTLE MORE CONFLICT FOR KIDS WHEN EVERYBODY IS MASKING, I THINK IN MOST CASES KIDS GET USED TO IT PRETTY QUICKLY AND IT JUST BECOMES WHAT DO YOU WHEN YOU ARE INSIDE.

THE POSITIVE THING ABOUT IT IS THAT IT ALLOWS FOR MANY ACTIVITIES TO GO FORWARD THAT MIGHT BE LESS SAFE.

>> GREAT ADVICE.

IF YOU ARE JUST JOINING US, THIS IS WPSU'S CONVERSATIONS LIVE COVID-19 JOINING US ARE KAREN BIERMAN, DIRECTOR OF THE CHILD STUDY CENTER, MATT FERRARI DIRECTOR OF THE INFECTIOUS DISEASE DISEASE DYNAMIC AND Dr. JONATHAN NUNEZ WITH PENN STATE HEALTH.

WE ARE READY TO TAKE YOUR CALLS.

YOU CAN SEND US QUESTIONS AT EMAIL AT CONNECT AT WPSU.

IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE A CALLER.

THIS IS RACHEL FROM STATE COLLEGE CALLING IN.

THANK YOU FOR CALLING AND DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION OR COMMENT.

>> YES.

>> THANKS FOR CALLING.

>> MY QUESTION IS ABOUT HOW MUCH LONGER DO YOU THINK THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY GOING TO GO ON NOW THAT WE ARE TWO YEARS INTO IT AND WHAT MIGHT BE IMPORTANT MEASURES FOR IT TO END?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION PROFESSOR FERRARI, DO YOU WANT TO START US OFF WITH THIS?

IT'S DIFFICULT TO FORECAST BUT THERE ARE FORECASTS OUT THERE FOR WHAT THE VIRUS MIGHT DO AND WHEN WE WOULD BE IN THE HOME STRETCH.

CAN YOU SHED ANY LIGHT ON THAT?

>> AS A I SAY OFTEN TIMES, COULD I MAKE A PREDICTION, I MAKE PREDICTIONS ALL THE TIME.

I GUARANTEE YOU IT WILL BE WRONG AND WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IS MANY OF THE PREDICTIONS, THE MORE PRECISE A PREDICTION IS, THE MORE LIKELY IT IS TO BE WRONG.

I THINK THE BIGGEST, YOU KNOW, THE BIGGEST ISSUE TO KEEP IN MIND NOW IS THAT WE HAVE TOOLS AT OUR DISPOSAL TO HASTEN THE END OF THE PANDEMIC.

WHEN WE WERE OR DEALING WITH THIS QUESTION A YEAR OR 18 MONTHS AGO, THERE WERE A LOT OF UNCERTAINTIES.

WE HAD VERY LITTLE TO CONTROL WHAT IS HAPPENING.

BUT NOW WE HAVE TOOLS LIKE VACCINATION AND IMPROVING ACCESS TO CARE IMPROVING ACCESS TO TESTING AND MITIGATION STRATEGIES.

SO I THINK THE BIGGEST DETERMINANT OF WHETHER WE WILL BRING AN END TO THIS AND WHAT THAT END MIGHT LOOK LIKE IS GOING TO BE THE STEPS THAT WE TAKE NOW TO PUT THOSE PROCESSES IN PLACE.

SO GETTING MORE PEOPLE VACCINATED, PROVIDING BETTER ACCESS TO CARE, BETTER ACCESS TO TESTING SO WE CAN IDENTIFY WHERE CASES ARE AND WHETHER OR NOT OUTBREAKS ARE OCCURRING I THINK REALLY WHAT WE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON ARE THE STEPS WE ARE TAKING NOW TO HASTEN THE END RATHER THAN FORECASTING WHEN THE END MIGHT BE.

IF I'M GOING TO MAKE ONE PREDICTION, IT'S THAT WHATEVER THAT END IS GOING TO BE, I SUSPECT IT IS GOING TO BE AN END WHERE THE COVID-19 VIRUS SARS CORONAVIRUSSIVE IS LIKELY TO BE AROUND.

IMAGINING A WORLD WHERE THE VIRUS IS GONE COMPLETELY, IS, I THINK, OVERLY OPTIMISTIC GIVEN THE STATE OF THE REST OF THE WORLD.

AND THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN QUITE SUCCESSFUL, YOU KNOW, MUCH OF THE WORLD IS UNVACCINATED, THE VACCINATION RATES ON THE CONTINENT OF AFRICA ARE BETWEEN 2 AND 3% AT THIS POINT.

AND SO THERE ARE LARGE PARTS OF THE WORLD WHERE THIS VIRUS, YOU KNOW, STILL HAS THE POTENTIAL TO SPREAD AND PERSIST FOR QUITE SOMETIME.

AGAIN WE CAN TAKE STEPS TO OVERCOME THAT AND WE CAN TAKE STEPS TO IMPROVE THE DISTRIBUTION OF VACCINATION AROUND THE WORLD AND IMPROVE EQUITY AND ACCESS TO VACCINATION AND TESTING.

IF WE DO THAT, THEN WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT A WORLD WHERE COVID-19 IS GONE, BUT AT THIS POINT WE-- THAT WOULD REQUIRE A REALLY MAJOR STEP AND A MOVE TOWARDS EQUITY IN HEALTHCARE THAT WE UNFORTUNATELY HAVEN'T SEEN IN ALMOST ANY OTHER SETTING WORLDWIDE.

>> Dr. NUNEZ, DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT?

THERE IS MODELING THAT SHOWS AN INCREASING AND THEN MAYBE SLOWING DOWN INTO THE NEW YEAR AND APPROACHING SOMETHING CLOSE TO NORMAL BUT NOT GOING AWAY COMPLETELY.

THAT GIVES PEOPLE A LITTLE REASON FOR HOPE AND AGAIN IT'S JUST A MODEL.

DAND DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEAS WHAT PEOPLE SHOULD PREPARE FOR MENTALLY?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE OF THE BIG THINGS IS, AGAIN, ECHOING WHAT WAS JUST SAID, WAS THAT WE HAVE THE TOOLS AT OUR DISPOSAL NOW AND I THINK ONE OF THE BIG THINGS WHEN WE ARE THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HESITANCY TO BE VACCINATED, RECOGNIZING THAT IT'S NOT JUST FOR OURSELVES, IT'S ABOUT OUR COMMUNITY.

I WOULD LEAVE THE MODELING TO THE EXPERTS.

I JUST THINK AT THE MOMENT FORESEEABLE, IT'S GOING TO STILL BE HERE SO TRYING TO IGNORE THAT IT IS HERE OR TRYING TO LIVE LIKE THERE IS NO PANDEMIC, YOU KNOW, IT'S STILL HERE.

>> AND IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE A CALL FROM BRIAN IN SNOW SHOE.

THANK YOU FOR CALLING AND DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION OR COMMENT?

>> YES, I DO.

THANK YOU FOR TAKING MY CALL.

I LIVE IN A VERY RURAL AREA THAT PEEP DON'T WEAR MASKS AND I'M NOT GOING TO ARGUE WITH THEM.

I WEAR A MASK WHEN I GO TO PUBLIC PLACES AND RESTAURANTS AND GROCERY STORES BUT I SAW THE FOOTBALL GAME, PENN STATE, AND I'M CURIOUS HOW THEY ALLOW 105,000 PEOPLE INTO A STADIUM, I MEAN THEY'RE CLOSE.

THAT'S A CONCERN OF MINE DO YOU HAVE ANY ANSWERS WHY THEY ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN.

>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION GENERALLY ABOUT THE IDEA OF WEARING A MASK INSIDE VERSUS OUTSIDE.

IF YOU ARE OUTSIDE BUT YOU ARE CLOSE TO PEOPLE, IS THAT STILL A REASON TO WEAR A MASK OR NO, IF YOU ARE OUTSIDE AND THERE IS FRESH AIR, IS IT PRETTY SAFE?

PROFESSOR FERRARI, WE'LL START WITH YOU ON THAT ONE.

>> SURE.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE CAN ALWAYS DO IS WE CAN TALK ABOUT RELATIVELY SAFE AND RELATIVELY DANGEROUS, BUT ABSOLUTELY SAFE AND ABSOLUTELY DANGEROUS IS MUCH, MUCH HARDER TO PIN DOWN.

SO OUTSIDE IS RELATIVELY SAFER THAN INSIDE.

100,000 PEOPLE IS RELATIVELY MORE DANGEROUS THAN 100 PEOPLE.

SO I THINK, YOU KNOW ONE REALLY IMPORTANT THING IS TO LOOK AT YOU KNOW, THE EMPIRICAL DATA THAT WE HAVE.

I FOR ONE WAS QUITE CONCERNED ABOUT THE POTENTIAL FOR SPREAD AT FOOTBALL GAME AND OTHER LARGE SCALE EVENTS AND, IN FACT, I WAS CONCERNED DURING THE FIRST SUMMER OF COVID WHETHER THERE WERE LARGE SCALE PROTESTS FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE AROUND THE COUNTRY.

BUT WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS THAT MANY OF THOSE OUTDORY VENTS WHERE PEOPLE ARE OUTSIDE, WE HAVEN'T SEEN CORRESPONDING LARGE INCREASES IN CASES THEREAFTER.

AND SO THAT HAS GIVEN US SOME INDICATION THAT THEY'RE AT LEAST RELATIVELY SAFE WE HAVEN'T SEEN LARGE CASES AFTER FOOTBALL GAMES AT BEAVER STADIUM.

THAT'S ENCOURAGING.

ONE THING TO NOTE IS THAT MANY OF THE VISITORS WHO ARE IN THE STADIUM DON'T LIVE HERE LOCALLY AND THEY GO HOME TO ANOTHER COMMUNITY AFTER THE GAME AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE MAY NOT ACTUALLY SEE VERY EASILY THE POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES THERE.

BUT AGAIN LOCALLY SPEAKING, WE ALSO HAVE TAKEN A BUNCH OF OTHER PROTECTIVE MEASURES.

SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 85 AND 90% OF PENN STATE STUDENTS, WHETHER THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT ON CAMPUS OR OFF CAMPUS STUDENTS, HAVE BEEN JEATED AT THIS POINT, SO THAT REDUCES THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE, THE AT RISK SIZE OF THAT SO AGAIN FOR ME AND MY PERSONAL RISK TOLERANCE, I PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE GONE TO THE GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE AND I CERTAINLY WOULD HAVE WORN A MASK IF I HAD GONE.

BUT AGAIN I THINK THAT WE HAVE INCREASINGLY SEEN EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE THAT SUGGESTS THAT WHILE THOSE ACTIVITIES ARE RISKIER THAN NOT DOING THEM THEY CERTAINLY DON'T COMPARE TO INDOOR UNMASKED ACTIVITIES.

THAT'S PROBABLY SOMETHING THAT PARENTS AND SCHOOLS AND PEOPLE WHO WORK WITH KIDS CAN KEEP IN MIND, TOO.

IF YOU ARE OUTSIDE, YOU HAVE A LITTLE MORE FREEDOM AND LESS CONCERN THAN IF YOU ARE INSIDE IN A CLOSED AREA.

>> IT'S SUCH A TOUGH, YOU KNOW, DOING THE PLUSES AND MINUSES, I DO THINK, YOU KNOW, FOR ME IT'S BEEN GREAT TO SEE THE STUDENTS COMING BACK TO CAMPUS BEING ABLE TO DO THESE OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES YOU CAN SEE THE MENTAL HEALTH BENEFITS OF THAT CAPACITY TO GET BACK TO SOME OF THE KINDS OF EVENTS THAT PEOPLE REALLY ENJOY COLLEGE STUDENTS, THERE IS A DEVELOPMENTAL PERIOD WHERE THE SOCIAL INTERACTION IS AGAIN VERY IMPORTANT PART OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT.

ON THE OTHER HAND, I THINK WE ALL RESONATE TO THE CONCERN WHEN WE SEE A BUNCH OF PEOPLE IN A LARGE CROWD WHO AREN'T MASKED.

LIKE I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP LOOKING AT THE DATA.

WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO FACILITATE AS MUCH SOCIAL INTERACTION AS WE CAN.

ESPECIALLY FOR YOUNG PEOPLE.

WE HAVE ANOTHER CALL AND THAT'S DAVID FROM STATE COLLEGE.

HI DAVID, THANK YOU FOR CALLING AND DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION OR COMMENT?

SET AGO SIDE THESE HIGH, SUPPOSEDLY HIGH RISK EVENTS LIKE THE FOOTBALL GAME, DO YOU KNOW OR DO YOU HAVE DATA ON WHO IS CURRENTLY BEING INFECTED IN THE STATE COLLEGE AREA?

IS IT JUST GENERALLY ACROSS ALL PARTS OF THE COMMUNITY OR IS IT MUCH HIGHER IN THE PENN STATE STUDENT POPULATION?

OR WHERE IS IT?

>> >> I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE THE DATA OFFHAND.

I DON'T HAVE THE DATA OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

I DON'T KNOW IF Dr. NUNEZ YOU CAN TALK GENERALLY ABOUT WHO IS GETTING INFECTED NOW NOT JUST IN STATE COLLEGE BUT IN PENNSYLVANIA.

WHAT ARE WE SEEING?

I THINK THERE ARE STILL HIGH RATES OF INFECTION I'M JUST SEEING IN THE HOSPITAL.

IT IS DEFINITELY THE YOUNGER POPULATION.

SO COMPARED TO A YEAR AGO, SEEING PATIENTS THAT WERE MOSTLY COMING FROM NURSING HOMES, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE BIG DIFFERENCE FOR ME HAS BEEN MOSTLY THE UNDER THE AGE OF 60.

AS EACH WAVE HAS COME, WE HAVE SEEN YOUNGER PATIENT POPULATIONS BEING ADMITTED TO THE HOSPITAL: AS FOR YOU KNOW, BEING PRIORITY PRURTAN AND RECOGNIZING SOME OF THE DISPARITIES EVEN STILL IN CERTAIN COMMUNITIES, THERE ARE STILL HIGH RATES OF COVID-19 THAT IS IMPACTING CERTAIN COMMUNITIES SO NON-ENGLISH SPEAKING COMMUNITIES, AFRICAN-AMERICAN HAITIAN POPULATIONS, LATINX, HISPANIC POPULATIONS, THERE ARE HIGH RATES OF INFECTIONS IN THOSE COMMUNITIES ALSO BECAUSE THERE STILL REMAINS TO BE A LOT OF VACCINE HESITANCY.

>> RIGHT.

AND PROFESSOR FERRARI, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ON THAT FOR THE STATE COLLEGE AREA IN PARTICULAR OR JUST GENERALLY WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN PENNSYLVANIA AND NATIONALLY.

>> SURE.

I CAN REALLY ONLY COMMENT ON THE PUBLICLY AVAILABLE DATA THAT MOST PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO IN THE STATE COLLEGE AREA AND SO WE HAVE SEEN AN INCREASE IN HOSPITALIZATIONS THIS FALL COMPARED TO LAST FALL IN THE STATE COLLEGE AREA, THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HOSPITALIZED ROSE EARLE EARLIER IN THE FALL THAN LAST YEAR.

AND IN FACT, STARTED GOING UP BEFORE STUDENT ARRIVALS SO THE INCREASE IN HOSPITALIZATIONS LOCALLY IN STATE COLLEGE STARTED GOING UP AROUND MID JULY AND WE NORMALLY THINK ABOUT STUDENT RETURN HAPPENING AROUND THE FIRST OF AUGUST WHEN LEASES BEGIN SO THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE SPREAD OF THE DELTA VARIANT INTO THE MID-ATLANTIC AND NORTHEAST THAN IT WAS TO THE ARRIVAL OF STUDENTS.

THAT CONTRASTS TO LAST YEAR, WHERE CASES IN THE AREA WERE REALLY QUITE LOW UNTIL THE STUDENT POPULATION ARRIVED.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE SAW LAST YEAR, WE HAVE A STUDY OF THIS LOCALLY, WAS THAT EVEN AS STUDENT NUMBERS WENT UP QUITE HIGH LAST YEAR DURING THE FALL, RATES OF INFECTION ACROSS CENTRE COUNTY BROADLY SPEAKING WERE REALLY QUITE LOW AND WERE, IN FACT, PER CAPITA, QUITE A BIT LOWER THAN EVEN IN THE FIVE SURROUNDING COUNTIES THAT WAVE' LOOKED AT AS COMPARISON.

SO AGAIN THE DIRECTION THAT THINGS ARE POINTING TO IS THAT THERE IS ACTUALLY PROBABLY MORE SPREAD IF THE COMMUNITY RELATIVE TO STUDENT SPREAD THIS YEAR COMPARED TO LAST YEAR.

THAT'S GREAT INSIGHT INTO THIS SITUATION.

AND IF YOU ARE JUST JOINING US, I'M ANN AND THIS IS WPSU'S CONVERSATIONS LIVE COVID-19.

JOIN IS US TONIGHT ARE KAREN BIERMAN, DIRECTOR OF THE CHILD STUDY CENTER, MATT FERRARI, DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR FIRE DEPARTMENT DYNAMICS AND Dr. JONATHAN NUNEZ WITH PENN STATE HEALTH.

IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE ANOTHER CALL.

HI HAL.

ARE YOU ON THE LINE AND DO YOU HAVE A COMMENT OR QUESTIONS?

>> I DO.

I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHY WE CAN PUT 105,000 PEOPLE INTO A FOOTBALL GAME WITHOUT MASKS AND CAN HE CAN'T PUT 25 OR 30 CHILDREN INTO A CLASSROOM.

>> SO WE WERE JUST TALKING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE HAS ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD BUT A BIG PART OF IT, IT SOUNDS LIKE IS THE FACT THAT WHEN YOU ARE OUTSIDE, YOU HAVE THE FRESH AIR CIRCULATING.

IS THAT RIGHT?

SO WHEN YOU ARE INSIDE A ROOM, YOU DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE FRESH AIR IN THE SAME WAY, EVEN IF YOU HAVE THE WINDOWS OPEN OR VENTILATION.

YOU CAN TRY TO TAKE THOSE STEPS, BUT OUTSIDE, YOU'VE GOT THE FRESH AIR.

IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE WHY WE HAVE DIFFERENT RULES FOR INSIDE AND OUTSIDE?

>> I WANT TO-- THESE THINGS ARE A LITTLE CONFOUNDED.

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT INSIDE AND OUTSIDE.

WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT CHILDREN 12 AND UNDER SH NOT ELIGIBLE TO BE VACCINATED RIGHT NOW AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE OVER 100,000 PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THE STADIUM ARE AT LEAST ELIGIBLE FOR VACCINATION.

WE DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE VACCINATED AND I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT THEY ARE.

BUT INDOOR ACTIVITIES WITH LARGE AGGREGATION OF UNVACCINATED PEOPLE, I MEAN JUST HEADS AND SHOULDERS RISKIER THAN OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES AND AGAIN I'LL COME BACK TO THE EMPIRICAL DATA WE HAVEN'T SEEP CONSISTENT UPTICKS IN LOCAL RATES OR RATES AROUND THE COUNTRY SOASHED WITH LARGE OUTDOOR SPORTING EVENTS IN THE UNITED STATES AND I THINK THE JEAT OF MANY OF THE PARTICIPANTS IS TO BE CREDITED THERE.

ABOUT BUT WHAT WE HAVE SEEN THROUGHOUT THE FOURTH WAVE HAS BEEN A SIGNIFICANT UPTICK IN CASES OF COVID-19 IN YOUNG KIDS AND ADOLESCENTS AND THAT INCREASE IN CASES HAS BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH KIDS COMING BACK TO SCHOOL AND IN FACT IT HAS PROGRESSED FROM THE SOUTH TO THE NORTH THROUGHOUT THIS FOURTH WAVE BECAUSE-- AND TIMED WITH THE OPENING OF SCHOOLS.

SOUTHERN SCHOOLS TEND TO OPEN EARLIER.

NORTHERN SCHOOLS OPEN LATER AND WE HAVE SEEN THAT PROGRESS NAT IS INDICATIVE OF THE FACT THAT THERE IS TRAPS MISSION HAPPENING IN SCHOOLS AND SO WE NEED TO TAKE ADDITIONAL MITIGATION STEPS TO PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING.

>> AND PROFESSOR BIERMAN, WE ARE SEEING SOME OF THE CASES IN THE K-12 SCHOOLS AND KIDS ARE GOING BACK FROM LEARNING REMOTELY TO LEARNING IN CLASS AND THERE IS SOME OF THE BACK AND FORTH GOING ON.

DO WE KNOW THE LONG-TERM IMPACTS OF THAT ACADEMICALLY?

THEY'RE MAKING THE EFFORT GET BACK IN THE CLASSROOM BUT THEY HAVE TO DO BACK AND FORTH.

WHAT IS KNOWN ABOUT THAT SO FAR?

>> I MEAN WE KNOW LAST YEAR WAS A BAD YEAR.

THAT OVERALL WHETHER YOU LOOK AT NATIONAL RATES, CHILDREN DID THOUGHT PROGRESS-- DID NOT PROGRESS ACADEMICALLY IN THE WAY THEY DO IN A NORMAL SCHOOL YEAR.

THE AMOUNT OF BEING SLOWED DOWN ACADEMICALLY REALLY VARIED AS A FUNCTION BOTH OF HOW MUCH KIDS COULD BE IN SCHOOL.

KIDS JUST LEARN BETTER IN PERSON THAN THEY DO ONLINE.

AND ALSO BY THE RESOURCES FAMILIES HAD AVAILABLE TO THEM SO SOME FAMILIES WERE IN A BETTER POSITION TO PROVIDE HOME LEARNING, TO PROVIDE ENRICHMENT ACTIVITIES THAN OTHER FAMILIES SO WE KNOW IT WAS A TOUGH YEAR AND I THINK SCHOOLS WERE WORRIED AND ARE WORRIED.

IT HAS BEEN VERY HARD TO TEACHERS TO TRY TO ADJUST AND FEEL LIKE THEY'RE GIVING EVERY CHILD THE EDUCATION THEY NEED AND THAT SOME OF THE PUSH TO GET KIDS BACK IN SCHOOL WITH MASKS IF IT MAKES IT MORE POSSIBLE TO KEEP SCHOOLS OPEN.

I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE BIG PAYOFFS IS TRYING TO KEEP EDUCATION IN PERSON AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE IN AS SAFE A WAY AS POSSIBLE.

THERE IS A MAJOR EFFORT TO DO THAT.

WE HAVE ANOTHER CALL AND THIS IS FROM ABIGAIL IN LEBANON THANK YOU FOR CALLING.

YOU DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION OR COMMENT?

>> HELLO.

>> THANKS FOR TAKING MY CALL.

I'M CALLING BECAUSE I'M WONDERING AS A VACCINATE PERSON IT APPEARS YOU ARE GIVEN THE OPTION NOT TO WEAR A MASK.

>> AND THEY ASK THAT UN VACCINATED PEOPLE WEAR A MASK BECAUSE CAN'T I STILL GET IT AND SPREAD IT EVEN IF I'M VACCINATED?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QET I'M CONFUSED ABOUT THAT.

IF SOMEBODY IS VACCINATED DO THEY STILL NEED TO WEAR A MASK?

CAN THEY WEAR A REGULAR CLOTH MASK?

WE ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT THE MASKS AND WHAT KIND OF MASKS TO WEAR.

IS IT IMPORTANT FOR BOTH VACCINATE AND UNVACCINATED PEOPLE TO WEAR MASKS.

>> I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS TO HIGHLIGHT OVERALL IS THAT YOU KNOW, WHEN I'M TALKING TO MY PATIENTS, SOME OF THEM MIGHT HAVE MEDICAL CONDITIONS THAT MIGHT SUPPRESS THEIR IMMUNE SYSTEM.

WHEN I THINK ABOUT THIS, I THINK ABOUT MY PATIENTS WHO ARE ACTIVE CANCER OR MIGHT BE PATIENTS WHO RECEIVED AN ORGAN TRANSPLANT.

THEY'RE GOING TO BE ON CERTAIN MEDICATIONS THAT MIGHT SUPPRESS THEIR IMMUNE SYSTEM.

THERE MIGHT BE OTHER FACTORS THAT AFFECT OUR IMMUNITY, MIGHT BE RELATED TO AGE, MIGHT BE RELATED A LITTLE BIT TO OTHER MEDICAL CONDITIONS LIKE DIABETES.

SO THERE IS DATA THAT SUGGESTS THAT EVEN AFTER TWO VANES, VACCINES THE EFFICACY IS LOWER IN CERTAIN PATIENT POPULATIONS.

FOR THOSE PATIENT POPULATIONS, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND MASKING JUST TO LIMIT THEIR CHANCE OF ACTUALLY DEVELOPING SEVERE COVID.

NOW ONE OF THE BIG THINGS I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, THERE IS NO ABSOLUTE ZERO RISK SO I DO THINK AS I DISCUSS WITH MY PATIENTS, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME POPULATIONS WHERE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE VACCINATING, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE MASKING AND YOU KNOW THERE ARE SOME PLACES WHERE THEY'RE JUST NOT MASKING SO I SAY FOR MYSELF TO PROTECTED MYSELF, BECAUSE HAVE I TO PROTECT MY COMMUNITY, I HAVE MY OWN FAMILY MEMBERS I HAVE TO PROTECT, THOSE ARE SOME OF THE REASONS WHY I STILL CONTINUE TO WEAR A MASK.

>> AT THIS STAGE OF THE GAME IT'S BETTER TO ERR ON THE SIDE OF WEARING A MASK.

DOES IT MATTER WHAT TYPE OF MASK YOU ARE WEARING IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE IN A CROWDED ROOM OR HAVE TO GO BACK TO WORK IN AN OFFICE OR A LOT OF PEOPLE NEVER STOPPED WORKING IN PERSON.

DO YOU WANT TO WEAR THE N 95 MASK OR CAN YOU DOUBLE BHASK?

>> SURE THE BEST MASK IS THE MASK YOU ARE GOING TO WEAR AND ONE THAT FITS WELL.

THOSE ARE THE TWO CRITERIAS.

N-95 MASK IS DESIGNED FOR A HEALTHCARE SETTING OR, YOU KNOW, WHERE THAT IS SPECIFICALLY FITTED IF YOU'VE GOT THE CAPACITY TO DO THAT FITTING AND MAINTAIN THAT THROUGH THE DAY, MORE POWER TO YOU BUT I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW IMPROPER USE OF SOME OF THE MASKS BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN THROUGHOUT THE PANDEMIC IS A CONCERN.

WE SEE PEOPLE THAT ARE WEARING MASKS OVER JUST THEIR MOUTH AND NOT THEIR NOSE, ET CETERA.

SO I THINK THAT WE NEED A TRADE-OFF HERE BETWEEN WHAT YOU CAN DO AND WHAT YOU WILL DO AND PERSONALLY DOUBLE MASKING IS SOMETHING THAT I DO WHEN I GO INTO REALLY HIGH RISK SETTINGS.

I HAD TO TRAVEL EARLIER THIS YEAR AND I WAS ON AN AIRPLANE AND WALKING THROUGH AN AIRPORT AND THAT WAS CERTAINLY A SETTING WHERE I USED A PAPER FILTER PROCEDURE MASK AND CLOTH MASK OVER THE TOP AND THAT HAS THE SLIGHTLY BETTER PROTECTION OF THE TWO MASKS AND KEPT IT TIGHT TO MY FACE SO IT GAVE ME THAT PROTECTIVE BENEFIT AND THE FIT BENEFIT.

YOU MAY NOT NEED THAT LEVEL OF DIRECTION IN ALL SETTINGS AND AGAIN THAT'S ONE OF THE NICE THINGS ABOUT MASKS AS A COOL IS TO THINK ABOUT THEM AS A SCHOOL FOR REDUCING RISK WE CAN NOT LATE THEM HOW AND WHEN WE USE THEM AND IF WE FIND OURSELVES IN RISKY SETTINGS, THEN WE CAN JUST ADD THAT EXTRA LAYER OF PROTECTION TO KEEP OURSELVES AND THE REST OF OUR COMMUNITY SAFE.

>> SOME GOOD ADVICE THERE.

AND WE HAVE A QUESTION AND THIS ONE CAME IN VIA EMAIL AND IT'S FROM SCOTT AND SCOTT WRITES MY WIFE AND I BOTH RECEIVED THE MODERNA VACCINE AND THE SECOND SHOTS WERE QUITE POTENT.

WE EXPERIENCED STRONG SIDE EFFECTS FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS.

WILL THE SIDE EFFECTS OF THE BOOSTER SHOTS BE AS EXTREME AS THE SECOND COVID SHOTS?

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BOOSTER SHOTS.

IS THAT SOMETHING YOU SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT?

MAYBE YOU NEED TO TAKE THE DAY OFF OF WORK IF YOU ARE GOING TO GET A BOOSTER SHOT?

HOW MUCH IS KNOWN ABOUT THAT AT THIS POINT Dr. NUNEZ?

>> SO I THINK ONE THING TO HIGHLIGHT THERE ISES A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BOOSTER SHOT AND THIRD SHOT.

SOME PATIENT POPULATION WE KNOW THERE IS IMMUNOSUPPRESS ANT, THERE IS SUGGESTION OF THIRD SHOT AFTER 28 DAYS.

WHEN YOU REFER TO THE BOOSTER SHOT, AT THE MOMENT THE DATA AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS IS MOSTLY REFERRING TO THE PFIZER VACCINE.

SO RIGHT NOW THERE HASN'T BEEN THE SAME RECOMMENDATION FOR MODERNA OR J & J. I EXPECT IN THE FUTURE AT SOME POINT THERE MAY BUT RIGHT NOW THERE IS NOT.

HOW I USUALLY DESCRIBE IT.

IF YOU ARE HAVING SOME REPORTABLE SIDE EFFECTS, THAT'S GREAT.

MAYBE THAT'S LIKE MORE OF AN IMMUNE RESPONSE BUT I DO ANTICIPATE THAT OVERALL, I TELL PATIENTS THAT IT'S HARD TO PREDICT IF YOU ARE GOING HAVE SYMPTOMS AFTER THE FIRST SHOT OR SECOND SHOT.

USUALLY I HAVE GEARED IT TOWARDS MAYBE DOING IT WHERE YOU KNOW YOU ARE NOT GOING TO DO SOMETHING STRENUOUS THE NEXT DAY.

>> SOME PRETTY SENSIBLE ADVICE.

THAT MAKES SENSE.

AND IF YOU ARE JUST JOINING US, I'M ANN AND THIS IS WPSU'S CONVERSATION LIVE COVID-19 JOINING US TONIGHT ARE KAREN BIERMAN, DIRECTOR OF THE CHILD STUDY CENTER, MATT FERRARI, DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE DYNAMICS AND Dr. JONATHAN NUNEZ WITH PENN STATE HEALTH.

OUR NUMBER IS 1-814-865-2124.

AND WE ARE READY TO TAKE YOUR CALLS.

YOU CAN ALSO SEND US QUESTIONS BY EMAIL AT CONNECT@WPSU.ORG.

AND IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE A COWELL FROM MARY IN STATE COLLEGE THANK YOU FOR CALLING AND DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION OR COMMENT?

>> I DO AND THANK YOU.

I'M WONDERING IF PEOPLE BY NOISE OR NOT BY CHOICE DON'T GET THE VACCINE OR EVEN THE BOOSTER WHEN THEY CAN.

CAN WE EXPECT THAT NOT ONLY WILL COVID CONTINUE BUT THERE WILL BE VARIANTS NOT ONLY DELTA BUT OTHER VARIANTS.

IS THAT UNFORTUNATE THING THAT WOULD HAPPEN DOWN THE WAY IF PEOPLE DON'T GET VACCINATED.

>> THE REALITY EVEN THOUGH WE ARE GETTING HIGH VACCINE RATES IN SOME COUNTRIES IN THE UNITED STATES, IT HASN'T HAPPENED AROUND THE WORLD.

CAN YOU COMMENT ON THAT AT ALL AND WHAT WE MIGHT EXPECT TO SEE?

>> SURE, YEAH I THINK THAT BEFORE COVID-19, SOMETIME MOST OF MY RESEARCH PROGRAM, I FOCUS WURCH OF THE DISEASES MEASLES, A VIRAL DISEASE.

SOME LISTENERS MIGHT REMEMBER MEASLES, SOME MIGHT HAVE HAD IT BUT YOU PROBABLY ALL KNOW IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE SEE AROUND HERE VERY OFTEN AND THAT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE HAD REALLY HIGH RATES OF VACCINES HERE IN THE UNITED STATES BUT THE FACT THAT I'M STILL STUDYING MEASLES IS BECAUSE IT STILL PERSISTS GLOBALLY AND THAT'S LARGELY BECAUSE OF INEQUITY IN THE DISTRIBUTION OF VACCINES WORLDWIDE.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, REALLY WHAT WE NEED IS HIGH LEVELS OF VACCINES, VACCINATIONS EVERYWHERE IF WE WANT TO DRIVE THE DISEASE OR THE VIRUS TO GLOBAL ERADICATION.

WE'VE ONLY SUCCEEDED THAT IN ACHIEVING THAT TWICE.

ONCE WITH SMALL POX AND ONCE WITH A LIVESTOCK DISEASE.

WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DO IT WITH POLIO FOR A VERY LONG TIME AND WE HAVEN'T BEEN SUCCESSFUL.

SO YOU KNOW, I THINK THE PERSISTENCE OF THE SARS VIRUS AROUND THE WORLD, I THINK IS A FOREGONE CONCLUSION AT THIS POINT AND WE CAN TRY TO MITIGATE THAT WITH VACCINATION BUT IT IS LIKELY TO BE AROUND.

THE MORE VACCINATION WE HAVE AND THE MORE BROADLY DISTRIBUTED IT IS THE LESS LIKELY THERE ARE TO BE NOVEL VARIANTS.

CERTAINLY THE MORE VIRUSES OUT THERE, THE MORE POTENTIAL IS THERE FOR NEW VARIANTS TO ARISE AND THAT'S CERTAINLY A CONCERN.

AND EVEN WITH THE OLD CONVENTIONAL CORONAVIRUSES THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND, THERE ARE CORONAVIRUSES THAT CAUSE SEASONAL COLDS THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME, THOSE TEND TO CHANGE ON SORT OF A SEVEN TO EIGHT TO 10 YEAR CYCLE.

AND IT LOOKS LIKE SO THE RATE OF CHANGE IS MUCH, MUCH SLOWER.

AND I'M CERTAINLY HOPEFUL THAT IN A VACCINATED WORLD, WE WON'T BE WORRYING ABOUT ABOUT VARIANTS ARISING AT MUCH MORE THAN THAT SCALE.

>> Dr. NUNEZ, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD?

FOR A WHILE THERE WAS THE IDEA AND DISCUSSED A LOT WAS THAT WE WOULD REACH THIS POINT WHERE IF ENOUGH PEOPLE TO THE VACCINATED WHATEVER THE MAGIC NUMBER WAS, 75 OR 80%, WE WOULD BE GOOD BUT THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE THE CASE ANYMORE.

WHAT CAN WE EXPECT TO SEE IN THAT FRONT.

>> I WOULD SAY LIKE OVERALL, I WOULD ECHO EVERYTHING THAT WAS JUST MENTIONED.

ONE OF THE BIG THINGS IS RECOGNIZING AND EVEN FROM MY EXPERIENCE EVER WORKING FOR CDC AND DOING OUTBREAK RESPONSE, IN AREAS WHERE THERE IS A LACK OF VACCINATIONS WHERE WE DO OUTBREAK RESPONSE.

MEASLES IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE.

WORKING IN AN AREA WHERE THERE WERE SOME COMMUNITIES THAT HAD LESS VACCINATION RATES.

YOU WILL SEE LIAR AMOUNTS OF MEASLES THE.

ONE OF THE BIG THINGS MENTIONING IS TAKING THE MOMENT BACK AND REFLECTING ON WHAT OR WHY ARE WE HESITANT WITH VACCINES.

WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO PREVENT AND ONE OF THE BIG THINGS IS RECOGNIZING THAT COVID-19 HAS AFFECTED OUR COMMUNITY IN MANY WAYS.

OTHER THAN JUST MEDICAL CARE OVERALL IN MANY ASPECTS AT THAT TIME WE WILL BE STUD STUDYING FOR MANY YEARS AFTER AND AS WE ARE TRYING TO GET BACK TO A NOW NORMAL, RECOGNIZING THAT THE ONLY WAY TO DO THAT IS TO INCREASE OUR VACCINATION RATES.

>> THOSE ARE SOME GREAT POINTS AND IT'S A NICE SEGUE FOR PROFESSOR BIERMAN TO TALK ABOUT NOT JUST THE ACADEMIC IMPACT ON K-12 KIDS AND COLLEGE STUDENTS LEARNING TO SOCIALIZE AND GET ALONG WITH OTHER KIDS BUT DO YOU HAVE ADVICE WITH PARENTS AND CHILDREN HOW TO FACILITATE SO THERE IS NOT AN ACADEMIC SETBACK BUT SOCIALLY, TOO BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT ALREADY THAT HAS BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT SOCIALLY KIDS WHO ARE SEPARATED FROM THEIR PEERS MIGHT HAVE A HARDER TIME GETTING BACK IN THE SWUNG OF THINGS.

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT DEFINITELY WAS A BIG CONCERN LAST YEAR WHEN SO MANY KIDS WERE OUT OF SCHOOL AND THERE WERE REALLY VERY LIMITED SOCIALIZING OPPORTUNITIES.

IT IS IMPORTANT FOR PARENTS TO LOOK FOR SAFE OPPORTUNITIES WHERE THEY FEEL THEY CAN GIVE THEIR CHILDREN A EXAMINATION TO INTERACT WITH FRIENDS, A CHANCE TO ENGAGE IN SPORTING ACTIVITIES, OTHER KINDS OF GROUP ACTIVITIES.

CHILDREN NEED THAT.

BOTH FOR ENTERTAINMENT BUT ALSO FOR THEIR DEVELOPMENT OF THE SOCIAL SKILLS, LEARNING TO GET ALONG, FEELING COMFORTABLE WITH OTHER CHILDREN.

BEING ABLE TO MANAGE THE CONFLICTS THAT ARE INEVITABLE WHEN KIDS ARE TOGETHER, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS AND WE HAVE WORRIED A LOT ABOUT GROWING LEVELS OF ANXIETY, DEPRESSION AMONG KIDS AND ADOLESCENTS AND I THINK SOME OF THAT WAS THE ISOLATION OR THE DEPENDENCY ON ELECTRONIC RELATIONSHIPS WHICH IS LIMITED.

AND SOME OF IT WAS JUST THE OVERALL, YOU KNOW SENSE OF CONCERN AT THE COMMUNITY LEVEL, THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT Dr. NUNEZ WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT SO IT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING TO BE MONITORING AND LOOKING FOR OPPORTUNITIES TO THE EXTENT THAT IT'S SAFE TO GIVE KIDS AS MANY NORMAL SOCIALIZING OPPORTUNITIES AS POSSIBLE.

>> YEAH, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I'VE HEARD COME UP IN DIFFERENT MEETINGS AND DIFFERENT SETTING AND WE'LL PUT THIS TO YOU Dr. NUNEZ IS IF MASKING CAN CAUSE HEALTH PROBLEMS FOR KIDS I'VE HEARD PARENTS ASKING QUESTIONS IF KIDS ARE REQUIRED TO WEAR A MASK ALL DAY IF SCHOOL, CAN THAT CAUSE ITS OWN HEALTH PROBLEMS?

HOW MUCH IS KNOWN OR UNKNOWN ABOUT THAT?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

AS I FOCUS A LOT WITH ADULTS, I WOULD SAY I'M NOT AS UP TO DATE WITH ALL THE DATA THAT'S NECESSARILY OUT THERE BUT I THINK ONE OF THE BIG THINGS IS, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU ARE MAKING IT THE NECESSARILY NORM ONE OF THE BIG THINGS KIDS ARE PRETTY ADAPTABLE ACTUALLY AND WHEN WE LOOK AT THE NORM IN THE COMMUNITY I DO THINK THERE IS LESS ACTUAL ISSUES OR RECOGNIZING THAT YOU KNOW, THIS IS JUST A TOOL TO HELP PROTECT EVERYONE IN THE SCHOOL I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE HAS ANY OTHER ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS.

>> THAT'S A GREAT POINT, PROFESSOR FERRARI.

ANY RESEARCH INTO THAT.

THAT'S SOMETHING I'VE HEARD RAISED BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS ANY FACT BASED TO THAT.

>> I WOULD SAY I HAVEN'T SEEN CERTAINLY NOT FROM MASKING.

THERE IS NO-- ALL KINDS OF CRAZY NOTIONS THAT ARE OUT THERE ABOUT THE POTENTIAL COST OF THE PHYSICAL ACT OF WEARING A MASK MIGHT CAUSE HARM TO KIDS ASIDE FROM THE MASK THAT WE HAVE ALL GOTTEN USED TO, THERE REALLY AREN'T ANY SUBSTANTIAL PHYSICAL HEALTH MANIFEST STATIONS.

AS Dr. BIERMAN SUGGESTED, WEARING A MASK AFFECTS OUR SOCIAL INTERACTIONS AND THAT IS SOMETHING BEE NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT AND WE INTO ED TO THINK ABOUT IT IN THE CONTEXT OF CHILDREN'S DEVELOPMENT AND I WOULD SUGGEST JUST AS WE THINK ABOUT THE IMPACT OF COVID-19 ON HEALTH INFRASTRUCTURE, ON VACCINATION ON THE DELIVERY OF CARE TO EVERYONE IN THIS PERIOD OF TIME WHEN WE ARE ISOLATED, WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT WHAT NEXT YEAR IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE AND THE YEAR AFTER IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE AND HOW WE ARE GOING TO MAKE UP FOR ANY OF THE CHALLENGES THAT WE WANT TO BE ACTIVE AND NOT PASSIVE ABOUT OVERCOMING SOME OF THE CHALLENGES.

AND I WOULD PUSH THE QUESTION BACK TO Dr. BIERMAN ABOUT PERHAPS HOW WE CAN BE PROACTIVE ABOUT TAKING STEPS TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE UP FOR THE LACK OF SOCIAL INTERACTIONS OR THE MISSED OPPORTUNITIES THAT SO MANY HAVE HAD OVER THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF.

>> WE ARE GOING TO GET TO THAT.

I'M GOING TO JUMP IN AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL HAVE TIME FOR THAT BUT I WANT TO GET ONE MORE CALL IN.

FROM SUSAN.

HI SUSAN.

THANK YOU FOR CALLING AND DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION OR COMMENT?

>> YES.

AS A PARENT, HAVE I TRIED VERY HARD AS A PARENT OF YOUNGER CHILDREN VERY HARD TO BE RESPONSIBLE AND PROTECT MY CHILDREN AND IF THEY DIDN'T GET THEIR SHOTS ON TIME, IN A TIMELY MANNER, I WOULD FEEL SUCH TERROR OR GUILT THAT I HADN'T TAKEN THEM IMMEDIATELY TO GET THIS DONE OR THAT DONE AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW PARENTS ARE GOING TO DEAL WITH THIS IF THEY TELL THEIR CHILDREN NOT TO WEAR A MASK AND THEY DON'T WANT THEIR TEACHERS TO WEAR A MASK AND THEIR CHILDREN COME DOWN WITH COVID, HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT?

THAT GUILT BECAUSE THEY'RE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GET AROUND THAT?

>> YEAH, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

WE ONLY HAVE A COUPLE MINUTES LEFT.

I DON'T KNOW WHO WANTS TO TACKLE THAT ONE HOW PARENTS CAN APPROACH THIS, IF THEY ARE FEELING A LITTLE BIT OF UNCERTAINTY ABOUT GETTING THEIR CHILDREN VACCINATED.

I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE HAS ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT IN A MINUTE OR TWO.

>> I'LL JUST SAY I THINK IT HAS BEEN REALLY TOUGH FOR PARENTS.

THEY WANT THE BEST FOR THEIR KIDS AND THE PARENTS WHO DON'T WANT THEIR KIDS TO WEAR A MASK, THEY FEEL THAT WAY BECAUSE THEY WANT IT TO BE NORMAL FOR THEIR KIDS AGAIN.

THEY WISH THE PANDEMIC WASN'T HERE.

I LINE UP WITH Dr. FERRARI, YOU KNOW, IT IS HERE SADLY AND WE'VE GOT TO LOOK FORWARD.

WE'VE GOT TO GET PAST THE IDEA THAT WE CAN IGNORE IT AND GET FLEXIBLE.

WEARING MASKS IS NOT SO BAD IF IT ALLOWS YOUR KIDS TO BE ABLE TO ENGAGE WITH OTHER KIDS I WOULD JUST REALLY RECOMMEND PARENTS GET THE BEST ADVISE, LOOK TO THE DATA, LOOK TO THE MEDICAL PROVIDERS TO GET THE RIGHT KIND OF ADVICE ABOUT THEIR VACCINATION AND THEIR FAMILIES VACCINATION.

>> ONE QUICK THING I WOULD ADD TO THAT.

THE THOUGHT PROCESS OF ADAPTABLE.

THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS RECOGNIZING THAT BEE HAVE TO BE ADAPTABLE.

THIS IS A DISEASE WE ARE LEARNING ABOUT EVERY DAY AND SOMETIMES THE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE GOING TO GO BACK AND FORTH AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS, RECOGNIZING IF YOU WANT TO GO BACK TO THE NORM AND SOCIAL INTERACTIONS WE HAVE TO ADAPT WITH THE INFORMATION AS IT COMES IN.

THAT'S.

>> THAT'S A GREAT WAY TO END IT WITH GREAT ADVICE TRYING TO BE ADAPTABLE AND STICK WITH THE SCIENCE AND LOOK TO THE SCIENCE.

WE ARE JUST ABOUT OUT OF TIME.

KAREN BIERMAN, MATT FERRARI AND JONATHAN NUNEZ.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US AND ANSWERING ALL OF OUR QUESTIONS.

OUR GUESTS TONIGHT HAVE BEEN KAREN BIERMAN DIRECTOR OF THE CHILD STUDY CENTER AT PENN STATE, MATT FERRARI, DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE DYNAMICS AND Dr. JONATHAN NUNEZ WITH PENN STATE HEALTH.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND LISTENING TO WPSU'S CONVERSATIONS LIVE COVID-19 AND PLEASE JOIN US FOR OUR NEXT EPISODE OF CONVERSATIONS ON OCTOBER 28 WHEN WE'LL DISCUSS COMMUNITY AND RACE.