>>> THE NUMBERS SAY COVID IS FALLING.

WILL THE RHETORIC FOLLOW?

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JOINING US ON "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" THIS WEEK, JOE ENGELS, STATEHOUSE REPORTER FOR OHIO PUBLIC RADIO.

PHIL GRESHAM OF COMMON CAUSE OHIO.

MARK WEAVER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST.

COVID SPREAD REMAINS HIGH, BUT IT'S FALLING.

THE AVERAGE PER CAPITA RATE OF SPREAD HAS FALLEN.

THAT'S THE GOOD NEWS.

THE BAD NEWS IS COVID SPREAD IS STILL ABOUT 600 CASES PER 100,000 OHIOANS, WELL ABOVE WHAT THE CDC CONSIDERS A HIGH RATE OF SPREAD.

MEANWHILE, VACCINE MANDATES ARE KICKING IN.

VACCINE DEADLINES APPROACH FOR MANY COMPANIES AND ORGANIZATIONS.

ENTERTAINMENT VENUES IN COLUMBUS NOW WILL ASK TO SEE PROOF OF VACCINATION.

AND AT THE STATEHOUSE, THE DEBATE CONTINUES OVER HOW TO LIMIT OR BAN SUCH REQUIREMENTS.

JOINING US FIRST FOR THE STATE OF THE SPREAD, THE SPREAD IS DOUBLE WHAT IT WAS BACK IN AUGUST, BUT IT IS COMING DOWN A BIT.

ARE HEALTH OFFICIALS HOPEFUL THIS TREND WILL STAY AND WILL CONTINUE TO DECLINE?

>> WELL, DR. VANDER HOFF IS THE HEAD OF EDUCATION, OHIO DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, I GAVE HIM A DIFFERENT TITLE ALTOGETHER.

HE SAID HE IS CONSCIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC.

HE HAS SEEN NUMBERS IN RECENT DAYS.

HE THINKS MAYBE IT IS GOING DOWN.

WE ARE ALSO SEEING THE VACCINATION RATES GO UP.

SO AS THAT HAPPENS AND VACCINATION RATES GO UP, HE'S HOPEFUL THAT MAYBE WE'RE STARTING TO SEE SOME CONTROL IN THE SITUATION.

>> DO YOU THINK THOSE VACCINATION RATES ARE STARTING TO TICK UP BECAUSE COMPANIES AND DEADLINES ARE APPROACHING?

MOST OF THEM WERE IN OCTOBER.

THEY GAVE EMPLOYEES A FEW WEEKS' NOTICE TO GET THE SHOTS.

COMPANIES LIKE WALMART AND MANY OTHER COMPANIES, THE UNIVERSITY HERE LOCALLY MANDATING VACCINATIONS.

THAT'S THE REASON THE VACCINE MANDATES ARE GOING UP.

>> I THINK THAT'S PART OF IT, RIGHT.

PRIVATE COMPANIES, OF COURSE, CAN SET WHATEVER POLICY THEY WANT FOR VACCINATION.

I THINK IT'S SAD WHEN GOVERNMENT STARTS MANDATING IT.

EARLIER IN THE PANDEMIC BEFORE WE KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON, WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO PROTECT OURSELVES.

THIS FAR INTO IT, PEOPLE CAN GET THE VACCINE IF THEY WANT IT.

I DID.

BUT THOSE WHO DON'T WANT, THE GOVERNMENT'S ROLE IS COMING SLOWLY TO AN END AND PRIVATE COMPANIES ARE DECIDING WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.

>> PHIL GRESHAM, I WANT TO POINT OUT THE GOVERNOR HAS GOTTEN IT.

DO YOU THINK PRIVATE MANDATES ARE WORKING?

JOE BIDEN'S MANDATE KICKS IN AT SOME POINT.

WE DON'T KNOW WHEN YET.

HE HASN'T PUT A START DATE ON IT YET.

IT'S SUPPOSED TO COME AT SOME POINT, ALL LARGER COMPANIES AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES HAVE TO GET VACCINATED.

>> THERE IS AN IRONY IN THAT.

EVERYBODY IS COMPLAINING ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT MANDATES.

ALL THE ORIGINAL MANDATES ON SCHOOLS IN PARTICULAR WERE GOVERNMENT-BASED.

IT WAS NOT A PRIVATE SECTOR EFFORT.

I THINK THE POLITICAL IDEOLOGY ASSOCIATED WITH MANDATES AND VACCINATION HAS MADE THIS MUCH MORE COMPLICATED THAN IT SHOULD BE.

ONE DAY WE'RE GOING TO LOOK BACK AT THIS PERIOD AND SAY, HOW STUPID COULD YOU HAVE BEEN TO DETERMINE YOUR HEALTH BY A POLITICAL IDEOLOGY?

I ALSO HAVE ANOTHER CONCERN.

WE'RE ABOUT TO GO INSIDE.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN WE GO INSIDE.

I HOPE THE VACCINATION RATE MEETS THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING INSIDE AND IT REDUCES THE RATE.

LOGIC WILL TELL YOU ONCE YOU START GOING INSIDE AND IF THE VACCINATION RATES DON'T CORRESPONDINGLY GO UP, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A SURGE OF SOME SORT, WHETHER IT'S GOING TO BE GEOGRAPHICAL OR ACROSS THE STATE.

ONCE WE'RE GOING INSIDE IT CHANGES EVERYTHING.

>> THAT'S WHAT WE SAW LAST JANUARY AFTER THE CHRISTMAS HOLIDAY.

WE SAW A SURGE.

THAT WAS WELL BEFORE MOST OF US HAD THE VACCINE.

>>> WHEN IT COMES TO GOVERNMENT MANDATES, THERE IS A PUBLIC HEALTH REASON TO REQUIRE KIDS GET THE MEASLES VACCINE.

FOR HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS DISEASES, ISN'T A GOVERNMENT MANDATE THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PUBLIC'S HEALTH IS PROTECTED?

>> WELL, THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE TENTH AMENDMENT, OF COURSE, BANNED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FROM HAVING A MANDATE.

THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY JOE BIDEN HAS NOT YET SIGNED THAT ORDER BECAUSE HE KNOWS IT WILL BE SUED AND STRUCK DOWN PROMPTLY WITHIN A DAY OR TWO.

LOCAL GOVERNMENTS UNDER SUPREME COURT PRECEDENCE CAN HAVE MANDATES LOCALLY AND THEY SHOULD.

HERE'S THE THING TO REMEMBER.

EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE PROTECTED FROM THIS VIRUS HAS THE CHOICE OF THE VACCINE.

AND AS A RESULT, ANYONE WHO ISN'T WORRIED ABOUT IT WHICH IS MOST OF YOUR VIEWERS HAS ALREADY PROTECTED THEMSELVES.

SO THE NOTION OF WE THE VACCINATED NEED TO BE PROTECTED FROM THE UNVACCINATED SIMPLY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

>> THERE IS A NEW BILL BEFORE LAWMAKERS THAT DOESN'T -- WOULD NOT BAN THE MANDATES, BUT IT WOULD BASICALLY ALLOW FOR SIGNIFICANT EXEMPTIONS TO ANY PRIVATE COMPANY'S MANDATE THAT THEIR EMPLOYEES GET VACCINATED FOR RELIGIOUS REASONS, MEDICAL REASONS, AND ALSO IF YOU'VE ALREADY HAD COVID AND YOU HAVE, QUOTE, NATURAL IMMUNITY.

BUT THE BIG ONE, REASON OF CONSCIENCE HAS BEEN ELIMINATED IN THAT BILL.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, HERE'S THE PROBLEM.

IT COMES DOWN TO THIS.

IT COMES DOWN TO INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY VERSUS THE WELL-BEING OF THE COMMUNITY.

THIS IS A COMMUNICABLE DISEASE, AND THERE ARE ALREADY IN LAW STATUTES THAT REQUIRE THAT AN EMPLOYER ALLOW RELIGIOUS EXCELTION AND MEDICAL EXEMPTION.

AND THE PROBLEM IS THAT A LOT OF THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO CHANGE THIS AND WANT TO HAVE SOME PROTECTION FROM DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GET A VACCINE, THEY ARE PUSHING TO GO BEYOND THAT POINT.

AND WHAT WE ARE SEEING RIGHT NOW IS WE'RE SEEING BUSINESSES FORGE AHEAD AS THE LEGISLATURE CONSIDERING THIS.

AND THE MORE TIME THAT GOES BY, THE MORE PEOPLE GET VACCINATED.

WE SAW IT WITH UNITED AIRLINES, FOR EXAMPLE.

THEY PUT IN A VACCINATION REQUIREMENT.

AND AS OF SEPTEMBER, THE VAST MAJORITY, JUST A SMALL NUMBER OF THEIR EMPLOYEES DID NOT COMPLY WITH THAT.

WE'VE SEEN OTHER COMPANIES, IT'S HAPPENING OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

SO, THE LONGER THIS GOES ON, THE MORE LIKELY PEOPLE ARE TO GET VACCINATED WHEN THEIR EMPLOYERS REQUIRE IT OR SOMEONE ELSE IS REQUIRING IT.

>> PHIL GRESHAM, DO YOU THINK PRIVATE/PUBLIC VENUES, LIKE CONCERT HALLS, YOU KNOW, THEATERS, EVEN CHURCHES, SHOULD THEY REQUIRE THAT THEIR ATTENDEES BE VACCINATED BEFORE THEY COULD COME IN?

>> I THINK IT'S FOR THE GROUP BEST.

WE'RE TRYING TO GET TO A CERTAIN LEVEL OF VACCINATION SO WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

ANYTHING THAT ENCOURAGES PEOPLE TO GET VACCINATED, I SUPPORT.

MARK, YOU MADE A STATEMENT, I HAVE TO BACK YOU UP AND ASK A QUESTION.

KIDS WILL NOT BE VACCINATED YET.

DOES THAT GIVE A PERSON WHO IS UNVACCINATED THE RIGHT TO BE IN THE PRESENCE OF MY CHILD WHO CANNOT BE PROTECTED?

DOES THAT GIVE THEM A RIGHT, HIM OR HER A RIGHT TO DO THAT?

>> THE SCIENCE TELLS US -- I ALWAYS WANT TO BEGIN BY SCIENCE.

CHILDREN ARE NOT AT RISK TO GET COVID.

SCIENCE TELLS US THEY ARE MORE LIKELY TO DIE FROM FLU THAN COVID.

THE PEOPLE MOST AT RISK ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ELDERLY AND WHO HAVE COMORBIDITIES.

CHILDREN NAY GET COVID, BUT IT WILL BE A VERY MILD EXPERIENCE FOR THEM IN THE VAST NUMBER OF CASES.

SETTING PUBLIC POLICY TO PROTECT A GROUP THAT DOES NOT NEED PROTECTING THE WAY THE ELDERLY COMORBIDITY DOES SIMPLY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

>> YOU'RE NOT LISTENING TO ME.

THE QUESTION IS, MY KID GETS IT ASK HE'S A CHILD.

TAKES IT TO MY GRANDPARENTS.

HOLD IT, TIM.

>> WHY DON'T YOU GRANDPARENTS HAVE THE VACCINES?

THEY'RE ABLE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES.

EVERY ADULT IS NOW ABLE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES IF THEY WANT TO AND THOSE WHO DON'T HAVE VOLUNTARILY CHOSEN TO EXPOSE THEMSELVES TO THE RISK ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

>> I WILL CONCEDE THAT.

>>> LET'S GO TO OUR NEXT TOPICS.

GOVERNOR DeWINE MADE A TRIP SOUTH TO THE MEXICAN BORDER WHERE HE MET WITH NINE OTHER REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS INCLUDING TEXAS GOVERNOR GREG ABBOTT.

THEY CALLED ON THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO TIGHTEN BORDER SECURITY.

DeWINE SAID IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR HIMSELF AND HIS WIFE TO TRAVEL TO TEXAS BECAUSE THE MEXICAN BORDER IS THE GATEWAY TO DEADLY FENTANYL.

>> 80% OR SO OF OUR DEATHS IN OHIO OVERDOSES OF FENTANYL IS COMING ACROSS THIS BORDER, COME ACROSS THIS RIVER AT SOME POINT.

STARTS IN CHINA, GOES FROM CHINA TO MEXICO, AND THEN COMES UP AND THE DRUG DEALERS BRING IT ACROSS.

>> DEMOCRATS CALL THE TRIP A POLITICAL STUNT DESIGNED TO CURRY FAVOR WITH FAR RIGHT REPUBLICANS.

DID THE GOVERNOR HAVE TO TRAVEL TO TEXAS TO THE BORDER TO RAISE AWARENESS ABOUT THE DANGERS OF FENTANYL AND HOW IT DOES COME THROUGH MEXICO?

>> I THINK IT MADE A LOT OF SENSE.

POLLS SHOW ABOUT TWO-THIRDS OF AMERICANS DISAGREE WITH WHAT JOE BIDEN IS DOING ON THE BORDER.

THAT'S A HUGE NUMBER.

AND AS A RESULT, GOVERNORS ARE STEPPING UP TO TAKE WHATEVER ACTION THEY CAN.

REMEMBER, WE HAVE OHIO NATIONAL GUARD MEMBERS DOWN THERE PROVIDING SUPPORT TO SOME OF THE BORDER PATROL AND OTHER FOLKS WHO ARE PROTECTING THE BORDER.

AND FINALLY, IT'S JUST THE RISK OF THE ISSUE.

IT'S A SERIOUS ONE, OF COURSE.

WE HAVE MANY PEOPLE COMING ACROSS WHO HAVE NOT BEEN SCREENED.

WE DON'T KNOW THEIR BACKGROUNDS.

TERRORISTS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BORDER STARING DOWN BORDER PATROL WITH WEAPONS.

THE COMMANDER OF THE OHIO NATIONAL GUARD WITH TROOPS DOWN THERE, I THINK IT MADE A LOT OF SENSE FOR MIKE DeWINE TO GO DOWN THERE AND RAISE AN ISSUE ABOUT FENTANYL WHICH IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM.

>> YOU'RE A COMMUNICATIONS PROFESSIONAL, POLITICAL COMMUNICATIONS PROFESSIONAL.

TWO QUESTIONS.

ONE, IF IT'S SO DANGEROUS DOES IT LOOK ODD -- LOOK ODD TO HAVE HER DOWN THERE WITH HIM?

AND THIS WAS DESIGNED SHOW HIM DOWN ON THE BORDER TO HELP HIM WITH FELLOW REPUBLICANS.

WAS THERE AN ALTERNATE REASON FOR HIS TRIP?

>> REPUBLICANS MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE.

MAYBE IT WILL HELP THE REPUBLICANS, OF COURSE.

MOST AMERICANS WANT TO HAVE FAR RIGHT, FAR LEFT -- MOST AMERICANS WANT THE BORDER PROTECTED.

I'VE KNOWN MIKE DeWINE A LONG TIME.

I'VE WORKED ON HIS CAMPAIGN.

HE'S A FRIEND.

I'VE BEEN WITH MIKE DeWINE HUNDREDS OF TIMES.

THIS IS A COUPLE THAT GOES EVERYWHERE TOGETHER.

IT'S ONE OF THE FUN THINGS ABOUT MIKE DeWINE.

IT'S HARD TO FIND NIKE DeWINE WITHOUT HAVING FRAN SOMEWHERE NEARBY.

>> PHIL GRESHAM, ARE YOU GUESSING THESE PICTURES OF HIM ALONG THE BORDER WALL WITH THE NATIONAL GUARD WILL SHOW UP IN A CAMPAIGN AD THIS SPRING AGAINST JIM?

>> I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED AT ALL.

THE ONLY REASON HE'S DOWN THERE IS BECAUSE HE'S BEING PRIMARIED.

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR THE GOVERNOR TO TAKE HIS WIFE, STAND ON THE RIO GRANDE BORDER LIKE HE'S STOPPING SOMEBODY FROM COMING ACROSS THE RIVER.

DON'T, GOVERNOR, DON'T.

DON'T PANDER PEOPLE LIKE THAT.

WE'RE NOT STUPID.

AND IF YOU WERE NOT BEING PRIMARIED, YOU WOULDN'T BE THERE.

YOU ARE A LOGICAL MAN AND YOU'RE MAKING THESE RIGHT-WINGERS PUSH YOU INTO A POSITION YOU SHOULDN'T BE IN.

MARK, YOU SAY RIGHT-WING REPUBLICAN.

PUSHING HIM TO A POSITION THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.

>> DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO USE PHOTO OPS TO PUSH A POINT AS WELL, ONE IN FRONT OF A BRIDGE THAT'S FALLING DOWN, GO OUT OF STATE, THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> SO BE IT.

BUT IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE.

>> DEMOCRATS ALSO SAID THIS PRECLUDED DeWINE FROM TAKING CARE OF IMPORTANT STATE BUSINESS HERE IN OHIO, BUT OBVIOUSLY HE HAS A PHONE.

HE CAN TEXT, HE CAN EMAIL FROM THE ROAD, WHEREVER HE IS.

>> WELL, YES, THAT'S TRUE.

YOU MIGHT WANT TO POINT OUT IN THE CASE OF REDISTRICTING, WHICH IS ONE OF THE THINGS THE DEMOCRATS DREW ATTENTION TO, THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE EQUALLY INVOLVED IN REDISTRICTING WHO HAD SOME PROBLEMS WITH THE COURT TO TAKE ACTION HERE, ALLOW DEPOSITIONS AND WE DIDN'T GET MUCH FROM THEM THIS WEEK.

I DON'T THINK IT'S A HUGE ISSUE GIVEN ALL THE THINGS GOING ON.

>>> ALL RIGHT.

STATE LAWMAKERS ARE CONSIDERING MAKING TAXPAYER FUND VOUCHERS FOR PRIVATE SCHOOLS UNIVERSAL.

EVERY SCHOOL KID IN OHIO, REGARDLESS OF INCOME AND REGARDLESS OF QUALITY OF THEIR LOCAL SCHOOL, WOULD GET MONEY TO PAY FOR A PRIVATE SCHOOL OR FOR HOME SCHOOLING SUPPLIES.

SUPPORTERS OF THE BILL SAY IT WOULD STREAMLINE OHIO'S CHOICE PROGRAMS AND OFFER PARENTS AND STUDENTS THE FREEDOM TO CHOOSE THEIR SCHOOL.

OPPONENTS SAY THE PROGRAM WILL BE TOO EXPENSIVE AND TAKE MONEY AWAY FROM PUBLIC SCHOOLS, BUT ALSO QUESTION WHO WILL MAKE SURE THE MONEY IS SPENT ON EDUCATION.

>>> WHERE DOES THIS COME FROM?

HAS IT ALWAYS BEEN PERCOLATING SCHOOL SUPPORT IS WISE TO MAKE THIS UNIVERSAL?

>> THAT'S BEEN PERCOLATING FOR A LONG TIME.

THERE ARE LAWMAKERS WHO WANT TO MAKE THIS UNIVERSAL.

THERE ARE SOME LAWMAKERS WHO WOULD LIKE TO HAVE IT YESTERDAY.

THEY WOULD HAVE DONE IT YEARS AGO IF THEY COULD HAVE.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW IS A BRUSH, AND ESPECIALLY NOW WHEN THERE IS AN IDEOLOGICAL PUSH.

WE SEE IT AT THE SCHOOL BOARD LEVEL.

WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF PEOPLE STAND UP AND TESTIFY ON ISSUES THAT THEY NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT BEFORE, NEVER TESTIFIED ABOUT BEFORE.

SCHOOL BOARDS ARE UNDER ATTACK IN MANY CASES FROM A VARIETY OF SOURCES.

SO IT'S KIND OF PLAYING INTO THE SCHOOL PUSH FOR UNIVERSAL VOUCHERS, BUT WE'VE GOT A LOT OF SCHOOL KIDS IN OHIO, 1.7 MILLION SCHOOL KIDS RIGHT NOW WE'VE GOT 154,000 IN PRIVATE SCHOOLS, MANY OF THEM ON VOUCHERS.

AND IF THAT NUMBER GOES UP, THAT'S DEFINITELY GOING TO IMPACT HOW MUCH THE SCHOOL -- HOW MUCH THE STATE SPENDS ON SCHOOL VOUCHERS VERSUS PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

>> PHIL GRESHAM, PRIVATE SCHOOLS ARE POPULAR IN MANY AREAS, AMONG AFRICAN-AMERICAN PARENTS WHO WANT TO OFFER THEIR KIDS A DIFFERENT CHOICE.

DOES THIS WIDEN THE OPPORTUNITY FOR FOLKS?

THE RICH CAN ALWAYS PAY THE PRIVATE SCHOOL TUITION.

BUT THE FOLKS IN THE MIDDLE WHO DON'T NECESSARILY QUALIFY FOR THE INCOME LIMITS RIGHT NOW.

>> MIKE, I REALLY HAVE MIXED EMOTIONS ON THAT PRIVATE SCHOOL FOR AFRICAN-AMERICAN KIDS.

THE RESULTS HAVE NOT BEEN THAT GREAT.

LET'S SAY THE SUBSTANTIAL TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

SO NOW WE'RE INVESTING ALL THAT MONEY.

WE HAVE NOW MADE PUBLIC SCHOOLS LIKE THE WORST THING ON GOD'S EARTH, THEY HAVE A STIGMA.

AND EVEN WITHIN THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

I DON'T KNOW IF THE IDEA OF UNIVERSAL VOUCHERS FOR EVERY STUDENT IN OHIO TO GO TO A SCHOOL IS A GOOD IDEA.

I THINK THERE IS VALUE IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

I THINK THERE WILL BE SITUATIONS WHERE ONLY PEOPLE CAN GO TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS THAT CANNOT GO TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

AND THE VOUCHER WON'T REALLY HELP THEM.

WHAT I SEE IS THE HYPOCRISY THAT PEOPLE SAY PRIVATE SCHOOLS ARE BETTER THAN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, AND PUBLIC SCHOOLS NEED TO STEP BACK AND PRIVATE SCHOOLS NEED TO FUND THEMSELVES.

WE STARTED OUT PRIVATE SCHOOLS WITH THE IDEA OF GETTING AROUND BUSSING, SO A LOT OF THAT HAS DISSIPATED NOW, AND ALL PEOPLE WANT TO DO IS GET THE MONEY.

IT'S A MONEY GRAB.

ANYWAY I CAN GET MY HANDS ON ADDITIONAL MONEY FOR SCHOOLING, FINE.

IT DOESN'T MAKE THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE.

IT HASN'T CHANGED THE EDUCATIONAL SETTING AND, IN FACT, IT HAS CREATED SOME FRAUD.

IT CREATES FRAUD FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE PRIVATE SCHOOLS CREATING THESE REAL ESTATE OPERATIONS THAT SUCK UP HALF THE MONEY AND THEY TAKE THE MONEY OUT OF THE SCHOOLS.

THERE'S NO APPRECIABLE DIFFERENCE.

>> MIKE, WE'VE HEARD YOU'VE LONG ADVOCATED FOR SCHOOL TRACE.

THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH THE CHARTER SCHOOLS AND VOUCHER PROGRAMS.

SHOULD THOSE BE TIGHTENED UP FIRST BEFORE THEY EXPAND THE PROGRAM?

>> YOU KNOW, THE BEST JUDGE OR THE BEST PLACE TO SEND YOUR CHILD IS THE PARENT.

THIS IS WHY WE TRUST PARENTS TO MAKE THESE DECISIONS.

I'M A PUBLIC SCHOOL GRADUATE.

MY MOTHER WAS A PUBLIC SCHOOL PRINCIPAL.

WE COULDN'T AFFORD PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

IF WE HAD THE OPTION, WE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE STAYED PUBLIC SCHOOLS BECAUSE MY MOTHER WAS COMMITTED TO IT.

NOT MANY PEOPLE WOULD TAKE THERE ARE PARENTS WHOSE CHILDREN ARE TRAPPED IN FAILING PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

IN SOME CASES DANGEROUS, IT'S DANGEROUS TO BE IN THAT SCHOOL.

WE SAW THAT RECENTLY.

LET'S GIVE THEM THE CHOICE TO FIND A PLACE TO SEND THEIR CHILD WHERE THEY CAN LEARN.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE OVERSIGHT?

SCHOOLS HAVE TO REPORT, ACCOUNTING AND THINGS LIKE THAT, AUDITS, NONPROFIT TAX RETURNS.

BUT FOR HOME SCHOOLING, THERE IS AN AUDIT IN ARIZONA THAT SHOWED SOME OF THE MONEY WASN'T BEING SPENT PROPERLY, PUBLIC MONEY GOING TO PRIVATE HOMES FOR HOME SCHOOLING.

HOW DO YOU MONITOR HOW ONE INDIVIDUAL FAMILY SPENDS THE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS THEY GET TO EDUCATE THEIR CHILD OR CHILDREN?

>> WELL -- WHEN WE GIVE PEOPLE MONEY FOR FOOD.

WHAT THEY BUY WITH THEIR CARD, THEY'RE ABLE TO GET WELFARE BENEFITS.

I DON'T KNOW IF GETS TO THE CHILDREN.

HOW DO WE KNOW IT'S NOT BEING SOLD OR GIVEN TO SOMEBODY ELSE?

THEY DO A GREAT JOB, AUDITOR OR STATE.

WHEN THERE IS FRAUD IN EVERY GOVERNMENT PROGRAM, THAT'S THE NATURE OF GOVERNMENT.

AND, OF COURSE, ANYBODY THAT VIOLATES THE LAW WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

I'M IN FAVOR OF TOUGHENING UP THE COUNTIES FOR PEOPLE THAT VIOLATE IT AND RESOURCES OUT OF THE STATE TO MAKE SURE THERE IS NO FRAUD.

>> HOW CONCERNED ARE AMERICANS ABOUT THAT?

WE JUST HAD THE CASE OF THIS SYCAMORE, BISHOP SYCAMORE SCHOOL THAT APPARENTLY WAS ESTABLISHED JUST TO CREATE A FOOTBALL TEAM, AN ELITE FOOTBALL TEAM.

THAT'S A LEGITIMATE CONCERN.

ARE LAWMAKERS ARE GOING TO ADDRESS THAT IN THIS LEGISLATION?

>> WELL, THEY SAY THE SAFEGUARDS ARE THERE.

THAT'S SOMETHING A LOT OF DEMOCRATS, A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LOOKING AT THIS, QUESTIONS THAT THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT.

ONE THING THAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT THIS WOULD APPLY FOR EVERY STUDENT.

SO IF YOUR PARENT MAKES A MILLION DOLLARS, THEY COULD STILL UNDER THIS BILL BE ABLE TO GET THAT SIPHON FROM THE STATE.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE QUESTIONING THAT, BECAUSE IT'S NOT PEOPLE AS MUCH AS PEOPLE WHO ARE TRAPPED IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS FINANCIALLY BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

THIS PERTAINS TO ALL, ALL PARENTS WHO SEND THEIR KIDS TO PRIVATE SCHOOL OR CHOOSE TO UNSCHOOL THEM.

SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS IN THIS THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF LAWMAKERS TRYING TO ANSWER THEM AS THEY GO THROUGH THE PROCESS.

>> OKAY.

OUR FINAL TOPIC.

THE COLUMBUS ZOO THIS WEEK GOT A NEW LEADER.

IT HAS LOST ITS NATIONAL ACCREDITATION.

THE ASSOCIATION OF ZOOS AND AQUARIUMS PULLED ITS ACCREDITATION FROM THE COLUMBUS ZOO AFTER FORMER ZOO LEADERS USED ZOO RESOURCES FOR PERSONAL ACTIVITIES.

THEY ALSO CITED THE COLUMBUS ZOO FOR USING ANIMALS FOR OTHER CREDITED ZOOS OR BACKYARD BREEDERS FOR PUBLIC APPEARANCES.

THAT PRACTICE CAME TO LIGHT IN A DOCUMENTARY CRITICAL OF FORMER ZOO DIRECTOR JACK HANNA.

THE ZOO AND ITS NEWLY NAME PRESIDENT TOM SCHMID SAID THEY WILL APPEAL THE DECISION AND MAKE CHANGES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE ZOO AND THIS WHOLE CHAPTER?

>> I THINK IT'S A SAD CHAPTER IN THE HISTORY OF WHAT HAS BEEN AN ILLUSTRIOUS AND HIGHLY RECOGNIZED ZOO.

I THINK IT'S A VALLEY THAT'S GOING TO TAKE YEARS TO GET OUT OF FOR THE ZOO.

WE ARE IN OHIO, CENTRAL OHIO.

ALWAYS TOOK PRIDE IN THAT ZOO.

THE PART THAT BOTHERS ME IS THE BACKYARD ANIMALS, WHERE THEY WERE USING ANIMALS FROM UNACCREDITED FACILITIES TO TAKE TO THE KIDS' SHOWS.

THE OTHER PART THAT REALLY BOTHERS ME AND HAVING RUN A NONPROFIT, USING THE MONEY FOR PERSONAL GAIN.

IT'S HARD TO RAISE THAT MONEY, AND IT'S A DISGRACE FOR LEADERSHIP OF AN INSTITUTION TO GET THAT HARD-EARNED MONEY AND USE IT FOR THEIR PERSONAL USE.

I THINK THAT'S SAD.

IT WILL TAKE SEVERAL YEARS TO GET US OUT OF THIS HOLE.

>> THE ACCREDITATION REALLY DOESN'T HAVE ANY IMPACT ON THE ZOO'S OPERATION.

IT MIGHT AFFECT HOW THEY TRANSFER ANIMALS IN AND OUT.

IT MIGHT HAVE SOME EFFECT ON DONORS.

ARE YOU CONFIDENT THAT THE CHANGES THE ZOO HAS MADE HAS TIGHTENED UP THE SHIP THERE?

>> IT WAS NOT WELL SOURCED.

IT WAS A BIT OF PROPAGANDA.

MOST TROUBLING, A FAN MYSELF, TOOK REAL CHEAP SHOTS AT JACK HANNA AT A TIME WHEN, SADLY, BECAUSE OF HIS DECLINING ABILITY -- COGNITIVE ABILITY, HE'S NOT ABLE TO RESPOND.

I THINK THERE WERE A LOT OF CHEAP SHOTS THERE.

WHALS UNCLEAR IS SO MANY PEOPLE RUNNING THE ZOO DID PERSONALLY BENEFIT.

THAT'S TROUBLING.

I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING THOSE RESULTS.

AND I THINK THEY OUGHT TO HAVE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR NEW PUBLIC MONEY THAT GOES TO THE ZOO.

>> ON THE STATUS OF THE INVESTIGATIONS, IT'S BEEN SEVERAL MONTHS NOW SINCE THEY BEGAN.

>> WELL, THEY ARE STILL UP IN THE AIR.

I'M GOING TO SAY THAT I AGREE WITH MARK AND SAM THAT THE ZOO ITSELF, PEOPLE ARE STILL LOVE TO GO TO THE ZOO.

IT'S ONE OF THE BEST ZOOS IN THE NATION.

AND I THINK AS FAR AS THE EXHIBITS, WHAT WE'RE SEEING AT THE ZOO IS NOT GOING TO SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGE FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF WHO GOES TO THE ZOO.

>> ONE THING AT ODDS IS WHO OVERSEES THE ZOO.

THE FINANCIAL DONATIONS, THE BOARD THAT OVERSEES HOW THE TAX MONEY IS SPENT, EVEN THOUGH THE ZOO IS IN DELAWARE COUNTY, THAT'S ANOTHER STORY.

DO YOU SEE THE ZOO CHANGING THROUGH ALL THIS OR IS IT STILL GOING TO BE THE TWO-HEADED MONSTER?

>> I THINK BECAUSE OF THE TAXING BASE, IT PROBABLY WILL BE A CONTINUATION OF THE TWO-HEADED MONSTER.

I DON'T THINK FROM AN OPERATIONAL STANDPOINT IT MAKES SENSE.

AND I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO MAKE THAT WORK.

IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD.

IT JUST DOESN'T LOOK GOOD.

IT LOOKS FROSTY AND MEANINGLESS THUS FAR.

I THINK WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN, THERE'S GOT TO BE SOME ACCOUNTABILITY.

AND I'M NOT ASKING FOR A PERP WALK, BUT SOMEBODY HAS TO GET THEIR WRIST SLAPPED FOR THE COMMUNITY TO HAVE CONFIDENCE AGAIN AND GIVING THEIR MONEY TO THE ZOO.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> I DON'T SEE ANY REQUESTS COMING IN THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS.

>>> TIME FOR THE FINAL OFF THE RECORD SHOTS.

YOU FIRST.

>> I READ A LOT OF POLLS.

FOR THE LAST TEN OR 12 YEARS, WE'VE BEEN ROUGHLY A 50/50 COUNTRY, DURING THE OBAMA YEARS WE WERE 50/50, TRUMP 50/50, BIDEN 50/50.

THE NUMBERS IN THE QUINNIPIAC POLL THIS WEEK ARE VERY TROUBLING FOR JOE BIDEN.

IT OVERSTATED THE DEMOCRATS 5%.

BIDEN'S APPROVAL RATE WAS 48% WHICH ACCOMMODATES THE DEMOCRATS, LOWER THAN JOE BIDEN EVER WENT.

IT'S GOING TO BE TOUGH THE COMING YEARS.

>> PHIL GRESHAM.

>> I BELIEVE COVID IS AN IMPORTANT PERIOD.

WHETHER WE CAN WEATHER THE TRANSITION OR DO THE THINGS WE NEED TO TO MAKE OUR COMMUNITY HEALTHY.

I HOPE BY 2024 WE CAN STOP WEARING MASKS.

WE CAN ONLY DO THAT IF EVERYBODY CONTRIBUTES.

>> 2024.

20 SECONDS.

>> OKAY.

MARK MENTIONED GRANDPARENTS GETTING COVID.

THERE ARE BOOSTER SHOTS OUT THERE THAT GRANDPARENTS ARE THE FIRST ONES TO GET THOSE BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT IT'S EFFECTIVE.

IT WANES AS YOU GET OLDER.

BOOSTER SHOTS ARE OUT THERE AND THEY SHOULD BE THE FIRST TO CONSIDER GETTING ONE.

>> I DISAGREE WITH GOVERNOR DeWINE'S TRIP TO MEXICO.

AT LEAST JOHN HOUSTON DIDN'T TRY TO TAKE OVER.

THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED THIS THEIR GOVERNOR WENT TO TEXAS.

THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR TRIED TO EXTEND THE EXECUTIVE ORDERS.

THAT'S "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.

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!musiC@!!!musiC@!

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!musiC@!!

!musiC@!