♪ Welcome to This Week in South Carolina .

I'm Gavin Jackson.

The Covid-19 vaccine is now available for anyone 16 and above in South Carolina and the state has halted the use of Johnson and Johnson vaccine over blood clotting concerns.

We talk with DHEC Public Health Director Dr. Brannon Traxler about this setback and how the vaccine distribution is going as we enter our fifth month of the rollout.

And CEO and founder of Closing the Healthcare Gap, Dr. Thaddeus Bell, discusses racial disparities involving the virus and vaccines, but first more from this week.

A disturbing video of a white Fort Jackson army officer shoving a black man in a northeast Richland County neighborhood shocked the state.

Army Sergeant Jonathan Pentland was charged April 14th with assault and battery in the 3rd degree according to County Sheriff Leon Lott.

<Sheriff Lott> It was terrible.

The first time I saw the video, it was terrible.

It was unnecessary.

It was a bad video.

The young man was a victim.

The individual that was arrested was the aggressor, and he's been dealt with accordingly, and that path forward is us working together, knowing that we do have incidents like this is in our community that we need to work together to prevent, and when it does happen, it's not gonna be tolerated.

It's not going to be tolerated by your law enforcement, and it's not to be tolerated by elected officials or community.

<Gavin> On Tuesday, two term Lattes and Democratic Representative Krystle Matthews, announced that she is jumping in the U.S. Senate race against Senator Tim Scott, who is up for reelection next year.

<Krystle> I'm not Jamie Harrison, and I don't like to compare myself to other candidates.

We all offer something different, but I will say this: we have to back candidates who get in those hard races.

It would be one thing if the money was spent frivolously, but when it's spent running a really well fought race, that is what we should be doing.

<Gavin> In following the announcement of 235 new school buses coming to the state thanks to money from the 2017 Volkswagen settlement, Governor Henry McMaster gave his take on the vaccine rollout now in its 5th month.

<Gov.

McMaster> We have a...

I call it an infrastructure, a health infrastructure set up.

There's some spots in the state that are hard to get to, and we're working on that, but overall, after some fits and starts at the beginning, I think that our state is doing well, but I would urge everybody to have patience and be careful.

<Gavin> Joining me to discuss the latest on the pandemic and the vaccine rollout is DHEC Director of Public Health, Dr. Brannon Traxler.

Notice how I said Director of Public Health, not interim.

Congratulations on the new title, Doctor.

<Dr.

Traxler> Thank you.

Thank you very much.

<Gavin> Well, let's get right into it.

We've had a very busy newsy week as we talk about the vaccine.

Obviously Johnson and Johnson's been top of mind for everyone.

Can you give us the latest on how that's affecting our state right now, and just what the current status of the situation is.

<Dr.

Traxler> Certainly, so we're very fortunate that we think at this point it's going to have a very small impact on the state and the vaccine rollout, based on how many devices we had been getting of that Janssen or Johnson and Johnson vaccine compared to the Moderna and Pfizer products.

So we were getting on average about 7,000 doses a week of the Janssen, compared to more than 40,000 a week of the Moderna and Pfizer, and so we'd also been getting Moderna and Pfizer for considerably longer because the Janssen was the most recent one to get authorization from the FDA.

So as a result, we think that it is going to have a very small impact - the current pause.

We're certainly following along with the federal recommendations and guidance and information that comes out from them in terms of the future directions with this vaccine.

As of yesterday afternoon the CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices the ACIP met for several hours and discussed these cases that have emerged related to the vaccine and the implications for that, the vaccine safety, the need for vaccines, and they have not made a decision yet about whether to continue with the vaccine or not.

So as of yesterday, they left the meeting with the decision that they were going to gather more data and more information over the course of the next week and come back together towards the end of next week to meet again and have more discussions and then make a forward path.

<Gavin> So still a very fluid situation right now, but Doctor, what's your message to the 82,354 South Carolinians that have already received their shot, are fully vaccinated against Covid-19 with it?

What's the message to them?

I'm assuming a lot of people have a lot of anxiety over this if they received that vaccination.

<Dr.

Traxler> Sure, I certainly appreciate that.

This is scary news.

This could be concerning.

First of all, you don't need to be revaccinated with any dose if you have gotten the Janssen vaccine.

It is still just as effective as it always has been, as we've known.

The safety, if you have gotten it more than a month ago, you're at extremely low risk of these complications, these blood clots in the head.

So if you have received it more than a month ago, please just continue to go about your life as normal.

See your regular health care provider as normal, but try not to be too anxious, and you are considered fully vaccinated.

For those who may have gotten it in the last couple of weeks, certainly be aware if you have an excruciating headache, abdominal pain, shortness of breath, leg pain.

Those things you'd want to contact your healthcare provider or go to the emergency room.

But again, it's not something to be extremely anxious about.

This is a very small number of cases so far.

We know of six cases that have been identified out of 6.8 million people vaccinated in the United States, so less than one in a million.

So it's still extremely low risk, but just be sure to go to the doctor if you develop one of those symptoms and have had the vaccine within the last couple weeks.

<Gavin> And Doctor, when we look at other pharmaceuticals, everyone keeps comparing this to a lot of hormonal contraceptive.

Do we worry?

How does it work at this point, maybe going forward, if the CDC FDA says "Hey, we can do this again.

We can use this safely."

Obviously like you just mentioned, how low these risks are.

Does it just become a matter of accepting this risk?

I mean, you hear those commercials for pharmaceuticals all the time, and you hear about just a wide array of possible risks, including death for some things.

Is that just something that maybe becomes the warning that comes with this vaccine perhaps?

<Dr.

Traxler> So we certainly have drugs and medications where that is the case, where it is extremely low risk, and so it is something that people should be aware of as they make their own decision about whether to use this medication, or in this case vaccine, but it is considered extremely low enough risk, especially when compared with the extremely good benefits.

Sometimes, a couple of examples that come to mind are sulfa drugs, which are a number of antibiotics that are out there.

There is a small subset of the population that have the condition called G6PD deficiency.

Often people won't know that they necessarily have it until they take a sulfa drug and it can cause a bad reaction.

But we still use sulfa drugs knowing that that is a very small chance it can happen.

Heparin, which is the most commonly used blood thinner, also very similar to kind of what's being seen here, can cause some antibodies to develop against your platelets, which are what causes blood to clot, and so we are aware.

The main thing is having those healthcare providers aware and on the watch for these adverse effects so that they can diagnose and treat them quickly on the rare occasions they do happen.

<Gavin> And where was the Johnson and Johnson Janssen vaccine going in the state primarily, and how are you guys shifting distribution to accommodate this change?

<Dr.

Traxler> Sure, so a lot of it had gone to some of the independent pharmacies throughout the state.

Some had been used at some of the rural events, some of the one-time larger events in the state, and so certainly for those providers that are giving ongoing vaccine, we are working with the ones that are requesting the Moderna or Pfizer, to try to fulfill as many of those orders as we can, and try to get them one of the other vaccines.

We've given clear instructions to all of the Janssen providers for what to do at this time with the Janssen vaccine to put it in quarantine on the shelf, and to mark it "hold, do not use, hold for now," but they shouldn't be destroying it or wasting it.

But we are working with the ones that have more appointments and more clinics and events ongoing.

The ones that want to try to use Moderna or Pfizer and have the capabilities for the storage and handling of it.

<Gavin> So do you feel like it's a big setback, or just a little temporary setback?

How would you describe the situation right now?

<Dr.

Traxler> Sure, I'd say it's going to be a small one, is what I anticipate.

Certainly we'll know more when we know what the future guidance from the federal agencies is regarding the use of the Janssen vaccine, but again compared to how many doses we use of Moderna and Pfizer, this is a small amount.

This has been targeting some of the rural communities, but we will adjust our strategies and work with providers if we need to, to provide alternate vaccines into those communities.

<Gavin> And Dr. Traxler, before we get into some other things, how do you feel this might affect vaccine hesitancy which is already a problem?

Do you feel like this could be an even bigger issue?

We're talking about roadblocks for vaccine rollout, but this could be maybe a bigger roadblock when it comes to people's perception of the vaccine and its safety and effectiveness.

<Dr.

Traxler> Certainly, and I can appreciate that people may be concerned about safety and efficacy of these vaccines when they hear this.

But what I want to stress to everyone, is that this is a great example of the fact that we're being as transparent as possible, and trying to get information that is accurate and timely into the public's hands as fast as possible, and so 6 cases is a very low number, I mean, less than one in a million identified but still, the agencies did the hard thing.

They put the pause on it.

They alerted people so that they can investigate further and decide what the safest course of action is, so this is a good example that the quality control and assurance methods that are in place are working, that we're going to do everything, even if it errs on the side of caution, to make sure we're giving safe and effective products to the people of South Carolina.

<Gavin> And when we look at the rollout of the vaccine in general for the state, it's been two weeks now since we've seen it open up to everyone 16 and over.

It's been four solid months of the vaccine in the state.

So far about 37% of those eligible to receive the vaccine have received at least one dose.

How do you feel that things are going?

Are enough people taking this vaccine now, especially that it's open up to everybody at this point?

<Dr.

Traxler> So I have been very glad to see the numbers of vaccines and the demand for vaccines that we have seen in these first four months, however I am concerned that we are getting to that point.

We spoke a lot early on about how demand was greatly exceeding supply, and I think that we are getting to the point where the supply is now potentially exceeding the demand, but we still have a long ways to go before we can protect the society and community and hopefully get us all back to normal, and so we still do need a number of people to go out and get vaccinated.

I want to see a lot more appointments being filled.

I want to see 100% utilization of the appointments and of the vaccine doses, and we are seeing some of those going unfilled at this time, so I encourage everyone if they're thinking about waiting or they're just postponing it, please don't.

We really need you at this time to go, and don't wait, vaccinate.

<Gavin> And yeah, we have about two minutes left, Dr. Traxler.

I want to keep with this, because I was looking at some of the data that you guys post on DHEC's website about vaccines.

We peaked about 59,000 doses on April 1st administered, and then last week we were averaging in the 40,000's, and now so far we're about 15,000 doses for a moving average, so a just really drastic dip right there.

Anything you guys can point to at this point, or anything that y'all need to do to help maybe get those numbers back up?

<Dr.

Traxler> Well, certainly as we see an increased percentage of the population that's vaccinated, that's a smaller percentage that's out there unvaccinated who's eligible, and so we would expect to see that number decreasing over time as we get more folks vaccinated.

I agree with you that I want it to be less steep of a decline, and so I think at this time a lot of it is trying to encourage people who maybe are slightly hesitant, slightly resistant, concerned, get factual information, make their decision, but really, don't wait.

Go ahead and go get vaccinated.

Time is of the essence if we're going to beat this pandemic.

<Gavin> We have so much more to talk about, but we have less than a minute left, and I want to ask you just a little bit about what we're seeing in terms of rates right now.

It seems like we're plateauing a bit.

There was a big worry from the CDC that nationally we'd be starting to spike more and look like Europe.

What do we see in South Carolina?

How are we handling it?

What are you looking at right now?

<Dr.

Traxler> Certainly, so we have been seeing... we saw a great decline from back at our peak in January.

That decline has plateaued over the last few weeks, and so we are carefully watching it to see where this plateau goes in terms of the case counts.

I am concerned that it could go back up, based on what we're seeing elsewhere in the country, but at this time we do look to be flat.

I, of course, want to see it going back down and trending downward again until we get down much closer to zero.

So we really are at a critical time when people's actions, and especially that vaccination, can make a difference in terms of where that trend line goes.

<Gavin> So much to watching and continue to watch, and Dr. Traxler, we appreciate you catching up with us.

That's DHEC Director of Public Health, Dr. Brannon Traxler.

Thank you so much.

<Dr.

Traxler> Thank you.

<Gavin> Joining me to discuss racial disparities in health care and the pandemic is Dr. Thaddeus Bell.

He's a Charleston physician and CEO and founder of Closing the Gap in Healthcare, a nonprofit that provides health education for African Americans and other under served populations.

Dr. Bell, thanks for joining me today.

<Dr.

Bell> Thank you very much for having me today.

<Gavin> So Dr. Bell, let's talk about this new survey that just came out in partnership with ADoH Scientific, which shows that the black community's attitudes towards vaccination are hesitant at best.

Tell us about this survey, what you guys discovered.

I guess this problem has been so pervasive.

<Dr.

Bell> Yes, well we we've partnered with ADoH Scientific, which is an organization that does pulse information regarding different aspects of the way people are thinking.

And ADoH Scientific confirmed to us that vaccine hesitancy is very real in the African American community, and so that information was very very important to us, and so we partnered with them to use the results of that survey to validate some of the health information that we were going to be using via audio as well as video to encourage the African American community to feel more comfortable with taking the vaccine, and of course, it has worked out very well.

We are constantly revising our audio and video tips to be up to date based on a lot of the information that we've got from ADoH, and a lot of information that we have been able to get just from going around in various parts of the community, to find out from African Americans and other marginalized people, why they are not feeling comfortable regarding taking the vaccine.

<Gavin> And Dr. Bell, what are you hearing?

What are they telling you when you ask them about their comfort level with these vaccines?

<Dr.

Bell> Well certainly the one that you hear about mostly on the news, is very well validated by the stories that we have heard, and that is the long history of mistrust that the medical community has had with the African American community, and many people - not all - but many people talk about the infamous Tuskegee Experiments, but interestingly enough, we do have a segment of the population that know nothing about the Tuskegee Experiment, but they have heard about other atrocities that have been perpetrated on African Americans.

Certainly, the distrust that many African Americans have experienced with the last administration has also causeed a lot of hesitancy.

And of course, the one that we oftentimes hear about, is the speed.

I think naming the naming the program "Warp Speed" conveyed the wrong message to the African American community and other marginalized people, and they internalized that.

For them, that meant that we were gonna come up with a vaccine that was... come up with it very very fast, and we're not going to have all of the data that we needed to have in order to make that vaccinee very very safe.

So those are just some.

Now there are some others that if you want me to go into, I'll be more than happy to do that.

One of the ones that's real popular right now, one of the myths that's real popular right now that we're having to address, in fact I just addressed it last night on a Zoom conference out of Columbia, and that is that the vaccine can interfere with fertility, and that the vaccine has a chip in it that allows the government to follow you around for the rest of your life.

<Gavin> A lot of conspiracy theories floating around out there, yeah.

It seems like misinformation now is becoming the big issue.

And just so people know, we carry our cellphones around with us everywhere we go, so if anyone wants to follow us around, you have a cellphone already doing that.

<Dr.

Bell> There's a plethora of myths and untruths, but to the people who believe this, this is real, and of course, we have to address it.

And then, of course, finally as I mentioned before, people do not understand how you could come up with a vaccine in short order, to do the kinds of things that the vaccine is doing in a short period of time.

<Gavin> To which we know that they've been doing this research for years, and then of course, this really was the impetus for it all too.

I want to ask you, Doctor, really quick, we have five minutes.

I want to ask you is this an opportunity to maybe rebuild that trust, to show people that these are safe, effective vaccines?

Have you been hearing people that maybe were hesitant before, and now are saying "I got it done.

I did it."

I've seen some people that were hesitant before, and then decided to go through with the shot.

Are you hearing anything?

Are people changing their minds at all?

<Dr.

Bell> Yes, it depends on who you talk to, and it also depends on where you talk to them.

Now, by that I mean this: With my patients, I'm gonna personalize this.

I've been in practice now for about 45 years taking care of mostly African American patients.

I've been on radio and television talking about health literacy for about 17 years, and so I've developed a level of trust with the people, with African Americans particularly, in South Carolina throughout the entire state, so I have been talking about myths and untruths in giving information for a long period of time.

I'm saying all that to say that well, for many African Americans, not necessarily all, many African Americans who get their information from a trusted healthcare provider are more than likely to follow through with getting the vaccine.

Now the problem comes then, for those patients that might not have a trusted healthcare provider, who may not get seen on a regular basis by someone who they feel they can get that information from.

So I think that people often times forget that African American healthcare providers have been a trusted part of the African American community for a long time, well before this pandemic came about, and it's really kind of unfortunate that we have not been involved in making sure that the information has gotten to the people that needs to have it, but never the less, the government is learning a lot about this, and they are improving.

<Gavin> I was gonna say, we have two minutes left there, Doctor, and I want to ask you just about what really needs to be done?

How do we accomplish this?

We've seen more money coming to the state from the CDC grant.

We've seen a lot of money from the state and federal government come into the state.

What do you think needs to be done?

Obviously, you're trying to get this data and to get out there and to really address and tell your messaging, but what more do you see needs to be done?

What help do you need at this point?

Well I think the thing that we are concentrating on, closing the gap in healthcare along with the campaign and along with ADoH Scientific.

We are trying to make sure, and we're trying to collaborate with organizations that are looking at people who are in the margins, people who don't necessarily have the wherewithal to be able to get on a computer and make an appointment, people who may not have transportation to get to the site in order to get the vaccine.

And then we also want to spend time in educating people who may not look at television or listen to the radio.

They may be getting their information from very poor sources.

So we are trying to look into our community, the black community, and we're trying to make sure that the people in the margins are not being left out, and so we have made some recommendations to DHEC and to hospitals around the area to make sure those kinds of things happen, and some are taking our recommendations.

<Gavin> And doctor, with 20 seconds left, how do you feel overall?

We're now five months into this vaccine rollout.

How do you feel like it's been going in the state?

Do you think it's been going well?

How would you describe the situation right now?

<Dr.

Bell> I think that we had a very slow start.

I think that it picked up.

I'm glad to see that I understood the process.

I think they made some mistakes by not including physicians as a part of the distribution process, but I'm encouraged.

I think that we experienced a setback yesterday when the Johnson and Johnson vaccine went on pause, because I think that now we're going to have to spend a greater effort making people understand those kinds of things do happen, and that the vaccine overall is safe.

<Gavin> Very good.

Thank you very much.

That's all the time we have.

We have so much more we could be talking about, but Dr. Bell, he's a Charleston physician and CEO of Closing the Gap in Healthcare.

Dr. Thaddeus John Bell, thank you for joining us.

<Dr.

Bell> Thank you very much, I appreciate it.

<Gavin> To keep you updated throughout the week, check out The South Carolina Lead .

It's a podcast that I host that drops multiple times every week.

You can find it on SouthCarolinaPublicRadio.org or wherever you find podcasts.

For South Carolina ETV, I'm Gavin Jackson.

Be well, South Carolina.