VACCINE QUESTIONS GROW AS COVID VARIANTS SPREAD.

>> JOIN US ON THE RECORD THIS WEEK, HERB ASHER, OSU POLITICAL SCIENTIST, AND BUREAU CHIEF FOR THE OHIO USA TODAY NETWORK, GOVERNOR DEWINE SAYS THE COVID VACCINES ARE OHIO'S TICKET TO FREEDOM.

BUT THE SALES PITCH TOOK A HIT THIS WEEK WITH HOW OFFICIALS BASICALLY PULLED ONE OF THE VACCINES OUT OF CIRCULATION.

THE FDA AND THE CDC RECOMMENDED A PAUSE IN THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON VACCINE AFTER SIX WOMEN WERE SICKENED BY BLOOD CLOTS.

ONE WOMAN DIED.

THE CASES WERE AMONG 7 MILLION ADMINISTERED.

THE NEWS INTENSIFIED FEARS OF VACCINE SKEPTICS BUT THE GOVERNOR AND HEALTH OFFICIALS MAINTAIN THE VACCINES ARE SAFE, AND NOW NEEDED MORE THAN EVER AS CASES CONTINUES TO SPREAD IN OHIO.

IN PARTICULAR IN FRANKLIN COUNTY, WHICH RETURNED TO PURPLE STATUS THIS WEEK, WHICH SIMPLYING SEVERE SPREAD.

>> WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN FRANKLIN COUNTY, AND MANY OTHER COUNTIES IN OHIO, THAT IS A STRONG VARIANT, A VARIANT THAT IS MULTIPLYING VERY QUICKLY, A VARIANT THAT IS MORE CONTAGIOUS THAN WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST.

SO WE HAVE THIS DICHOTOMY, REALLY, OF A LOT OF PEOPLE IN FRANKLIN COUNTY ARE NOW VACCINATED.

A LOT OF PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO SPREAD IT.

A LOT OF PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO GET IT.

WE'RE MAKING IT HARDER AND HARDER FOR THIS VARIANT TO MULTIPLY.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT'S SO POWERFUL THAT IT'S MULTIPLYING.

>> BACK IN THE DAY IF A COUNTY WENT -- FRANKLIN COUNTY, THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO GET PEOPLE VACCINATED.

CORRECT?

>> RIGHT, THAT MAP WAS INTRODUCED IN JULY, AND I THINK VERY QUICKLY, EVEN THOUGH THE STATE DIDN'T PUT OUT ANY SORT OF MANDATES OR POLICY CHANGES TIED TO IT, WE SAW LOTS OF SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND BUSINESSES.

AND OTHER ENTITIES THAT KIND OF RELIED ON THAT COLOR CODING SYSTEM.

MANYENTITYS HAVE BACKED AWAY FROM THE SOMEBODY.

THE NEW CASES PER 100,000 RESIDENTS.

EVEN THOUGH FRANKLIN COUNTY IS HIGH, ON THAT INDICATOR THERE ARE MORE THAN A DOZEN OTHER COUNTIES IN THE STATE THAT ARE HIGHER THAN FRANKLIN COUNTY.

AND THE SECOND POINT YOU WOULD MAKE ON THE SCHOOL ISSUE IS, AT THIS POINT, ALL THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS HAVE BEEN OFFERED THE VACCINE.

AND ALL THE TEACHERS AND STAFF MEMBERS THAT TOOK THE VACCINE WOULD BE FULLY VACCINATED.

THAT'S A POINT THAT GOVERNOR JOHN HOUSTON RAISED.

HE DOESN'T EXPECT SCHOOLS TO CLOSE, WITH CHANGES IN THIS MAP OR EVEN AS WE SEE MORE SPREAD, MAYBE DUE TO THESE VARIANTS, BECAUSE THE VACCINES HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO BE PROTECTIVE AGAINST THESE NEW VARIANTS, AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY OHIO PRIORITIZED VACCINATING SCHOOL POPULATIONS.

>> THIS ISN'T THE -- WE SAW THE CASES DECLINING DRAMATICALLY BACK IN FEBRUARY.

THE VACCINATIONS WERE GOING UP.

NOW WE'RE SEEING SPREAD FOUR TIMES WHAT THE GOVERNOR SAYS THE RATE OF NEW CASES WOULD NEED TO LIFT ALL THE HEALTH ORDERS.

>> WELL, WE KNOW THAT VACCINES -- WE KNOW THE VIRUSES MUTATE AND PEOPLE CAN LET DOWN THEIR GUARD.

THE GOOD NEWS IS THERE ARE MANY MORE PEOPLE BEING VACCINATED AND THESE VACCINATIONS ARE VERY POWERFUL, BETTER THAN 90% IMMUNITY AGAINST A VIRUS THAT HAS BETTER THAN 95% SURVIVAL RATE.

ALTHOUGH WE'RE STILL SEEING SPREAD, OHIO FEELS LIKE WE'VE TURNED A CORNER AND THEY CAN CERTAINLY SEE THE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL.

FOR LIFE GETTING TO BE MUCH MORE NORMAL.

>> GETTING TO THAT NUMBER, THE GOVERNOR SAID WHEN WE GET TO 50 CASES PER 100,000 POPULATION FOR TWO WEEKS, HE WOULD LIFT ALL THE ORDERS.

ACTUALLY, HOPED TO DO THIS BY 4TH OF JULY.

NOW WE'RE FOUR TIMES THAT RATE BECAUSE OF THIS SURGE OF SORTS THAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

DOES HE REGRET SETTING THAT NUMBER OR DOES HE STILL HOPE THIS WILL COME BACK DOWN AS QUICKLY AS IT'S GONE UP?

>> IT'S PROBABLY GOOD TO SET THE STANDARD THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, LOOK, IF YOU LOOK AT THE NEWS OVERALL, THE NEWS IS FAIRLY GOOD.

BUT WHENEVER YOU NOW HAVE A NEWS STORY THAT SAYS SO MANY MORE PEOPLE ARE VACCINATED, BUT THE RATE IS JUST GOING UP IN FRANKLIN COUNTY OR IN MICHIGAN OR WHATEVER, I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO REALLY STILL GET PERPLEXED ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE.

AND I THINK SOME PEOPLE ARE WORRIED THAT THIS MIGHT MAKE THE ANTI-VACCINE PEOPLE EVEN MORE RELUCTANT TO GET THE VACCINE WHEN THEY HEAR ABOUT THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON.

I THINK WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND HERE, THAT WE'RE NOW ON A TRAJECTORY WHERE EVERY WEEK THAT GOES BY, A HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF OHIOANS WILL BE VACCINATED AND THAT MEANS THAT THERE WILL BE FEWER OF US WHO, IN FACT, CAN TRANSMIT WHATEVER NEW VARIANT COMES UP.

LAST POINT HERE, MIKE, IS THAT MOST OF THE SCIENTISTS ARE SAYING THAT THE VARIANTS ARE LIKELY TO BE -- YOU'LL BE PROTECTED FROM MOST OF THE VARIANTS BY BEING VACCINATED.

YOU WON'T GET SICK.

YOU MIGHT STILL HAVE A CHANCE OF TRANSMITTING SOMETHING, EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE NOT SICK.

AND THE PONDERABLE IS COULD THERE EVER BE A VARIANT THAT IS TRULY SCARY?

AND WE DON'T THINK SO.

WHEN WE SAY WE DON'T THINK SO, THE WORD THINK IS THE OPERATIVE.

>> THE GOVERNOR IS TRYING TO REMAIN POSITIVE.

A SPECIAL NEWS CONFERENCE THE DAY THE J&J VACCINE WAS PUT ON PAUSE AND HE AND HIS HEALTH ADVISER WERE REALLY TRYING TO BE POSITIVE BUT HE DID SAY THAT HE'S HAD BETTER DAYS AND THAT IT JUST REALLY UNDERCUT HIS MESSAGE THAT TO GET THE VACCINE, TO HAVE EVEN A SHRED OF DOUBT ABOUT ONE OF THEM.

>> RIGHT, AND THEN THAT'S A PROBLEM BEYOND, THAT GOES BEYOND OHIO.

I THINK WHEN THAT ANNOUNCEMENT WAS MADE WE HAD PUBLIC HEALTH EXPERTS ON BOTH SIDES OF THAT ARGUMENT SAYING, YOU KNOW, THE CDC.

AND FDA WERE BEING OVERLY CAUTIOUS GIVEN THAT IT WAS ONLY SIX OUT OF NEARLY 7 MILLION.

AND YOU HAD OTHER EXPERTS WHO WERE SAYING THIS WAS ABSOLUTELY THE RIGHT CALL BECAUSE WITH SOMETHING NEW LIKE THIS, THAT IS -- YOU'RE GOING TO FIND CASES AS YOUR POOL WIDENS, EVEN THOUGH THE TRIALS WERE VERY LARGE, THEY WEREN'T IN THE STRENGTH OF MILLIONS.

SO IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S EXTREMELY RARE, WHICH THIS BLOOD CLOT ISSUE SEEMS TO BE -- IF IT IS LINKED TO THE VACCINE, IT'S EXTREMELY RARE.

AT LEAST THEY'RE FINDING IT AND STUDYING IT NOW, BEFORE YOU'RE VACCINATING EVEN MORE PEOPLE.

AND IN OHIO, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE 264,000 JOHNSON & JOHNSON DOSES APPROXIMATELY ADMINISTERED BEFORE THIS PAUSE, AND THAT WAS ABOUT 6% OF THE TOTAL DOSES ADMINISTERED IN THE STATE.

MOST OF OHIO IS GETTING EITHER THE PFIZER OR THE MODERNA VACCINES.

SO IT ALREADY WAS, YOU KNOW, NOT THE MAJORITY OF OHIO'S SUPPLY, AND WE WERE EXPECTING LESS OF THAT ANYWAY IN THE COMING WEEKS.

BUT IT CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, THREW A WRENCH INTO SOME OF THESE COLLEGES' PLANS TO INOCULATE THOSE STUDENTS BEFORE THEY LEAVE AND GO HOME, WHEREVER THAT MAY BE.

>> HERE'S THE STATS.

36% OF OHIOANS HAD AT LEAST ONE SHOT, 20% OF OHIOANS ARE FULLY VACCINATED.

THEY SAY WE'RE SECOND IN THE UNITED STATES IN TERMS OF PEOPLE WHO'VE HAD AT LEAST THE FIRST DOSE.

IT SEEMS OF EITHER DEMO, THERE'S SKEPTICISM ACROSS ALL SPECTRUM OF SOCIETY, BUT REPUBLICAN MEN TEND TO BE THE -- HAVE BEEN THE MOST SKEPTICAL OF THIS.

WILL THEY BE EVEN MORE SKEPTICAL BECAUSE OF THIS JOHNSON & JOHNSON NEWS.

>> POTENTIALLY BUT I THINK THE REAL INDICATOR OF WHY THERE'S SO MUCH VACCINE CONCERN IS THAT THIS ISSUE WAS POLITICIZED BY MEMBERS OF BOTH PARTIES, KIND OF IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE IN BOTH PARTIES THROUGHOUT THE LAST FEW YEARS.

AS A RESULT, IF YOU'RE MAKING AN ISSUE POLITICAL PEOPLE WILL RETREAT TO THEIR POLITICAL CORNERS AND TAKE THEIR NORMAL POLITICAL VIEWS WHICH IS A SHAME BECAUSE THIS IS A PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE.

WE'RE IN A MODERN AMERICA, AND NEARLY EVERYTHING HAS BECOME POLITICAL.

>> HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF OHIOANS HAVE LOST THEIR JOBS LAST SPRING, AND STARTING TO GET BACK TO WORK BUT THE STATE STILL HAS TO PAY BACK ALL OF THE MONEY IT BORROWED TO PAY THE UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS.

THE STATE PLANS TO USE SOME OF THE FEDERAL COVID RELIEF MONEY IT IS GETTING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO REPAY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

BUT THE PROBLEM REMAINS IN RECENT YEARS THE STATE HAS NOT HAD ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS DURING A RECESSION.

FIRST ON THE REPAYMENT OF THE LOAN, DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO USE FEDERAL MONEY TO REPAY THIS LOAN, RATHER THAN INCREASE TAXES OR CUT BENEFITS?

>> WHEN I HEARD THAT, I SORT OF CHUCKLED.

THE FED GIVES ON ONE HAND AND TAKES AWAY WITH THE OTHER.

WE'VE HAD A LONG-TERM PROBLEM FUNDING OUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE SYSTEM AND PART OF THAT IS UNDERSTANDABLE WHEN YOU HAVE SUDDEN EVENTS, LIKE THE RECESSION IN 2008.

AND ALL THE SUDDEN THERE'S A HUGE INFLUX OF UNEMPLOYED, OR THE PANDEMIC THIS LAST YEAR AND THIS YEAR.

MAYBE NO SYSTEM COULD REALLY HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES TO PAY OUT MONEY, THAT MUCH MONEY IN THE SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

HAVING SAID THAT, THOUGH, OHIO REALLY DOES HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT SHOULD THEY HAVE IN RESERVE?

HOW MUCH MONEY SHOULD THEY -- SHOULD THEY HAVE?

THEY PROBABLY NEED TO HAVE MORE.

AND YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE TOO MUCH MORE BECAUSE YOU'LL HAVE COMPLAINTS THAT YOU'RE KEEPING TOO MUCH MONEY IN THE BANK, IF YOU WILL.

BUT THE NOTION THAT WE'RE GOING TO, IN A SENSE, PAY OFF THAT DEBT, PERHAPS, WOULD BE USING MONEY THAT THE FEDS ARE GIVING US NOW, I THINK THE FIRST THING AT -- WELL, LOOK AT THE SYSTEM, SEE HOW IT CAN BE IMPROVED AND THE OTHER ISSUE THAT WE CAME UP WITH WAS THE NUMBER OF -- I'LL USE THE WORD FRAUDULENT, FRAUDULENT APPLICATIONS, IF YOU WILL.

AND I UNDERSTAND IN A TIME OF PANDEMIC, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO PUT ALL THE TIME AND RESOURCES INTO CHECKING EVERY APPLICATION VERY CAREFULLY AND ALL OF THAT.

BUT WE NEED TO HAVE BETTER SYSTEMS IN PLACE.

WE NEED TO HAVE BETTER SOFTWARE.

AND THAT WILL TAKE AN INVESTMENT.

AND THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN A PROBLEM FOR STATE GOVERNMENTS.

BUT A PROBLEM FOR THE UNIVERSITIES, IN TERMS OF HAVING SYSTEMS IN PLACE PROVIDED BY EXTERNAL VENDORS, THAT REALLY DO WORK AND GET THE JOB DONE.

I WOULD HOPE THAT WE WOULD USE SOME OF THE FEDERAL MONEY IN A SENSE TO BUILD OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, IF YOU WILL, WITH RESPECT TO HANDLING THESE KINDS OF ISSUES, WHETHER IT'S AN UNEMPLOYMENT OR WELFARE OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE.

>> WE HAD THIS ONCE IN A LIFETIME RECESSION ABOUT EVERY TEN YEARS, IT SEEMS.

MOST RECESSIONS DO.

AND TO INCREASE THE FUNDS, TAX BUSINESSES MORE OR CUT BENEFITS.

WHAT'S THE SOLUTION TO GET MORE MONEY INTO THAT FUND FOR THAT RAINY DAY THAT WE KNOW IS COMING AT SOME POINT?

>> MIKE, YOU JUST SPOKE SOME RARE COMMON SENSE.

THE PROBLEM IS, IN AMERICA, TOO MUCH OF OUR BUDGETING IN FISCAL POLICY IS DRIVEN BY POLITICAL SCIENCE ENTHUSIASTS, AND NOT ENOUGH IS BEING DRIVEN BY MATHEMATICS ENTHUSIASTS.

WHAT YOU JUST SAID IS A FOUNDATIONAL ISSUE.

IF THE SYSTEM IS OUT OF BALANCE YOU EITHER NEED MORE MONEY IN OR PAY LESS MONEY OUT.

THE FIX IS SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE, AND WHEN YOU'RE AFRAID THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO FAIL, LET'S REMEMBER, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OUR NEIGHBORS BAILING THEIRSELVES OUT WHEN THEY'RE TYPICALLY OUR NEIGHBORS' GRANDCHILD AND GREATGRANDCHILDREN WOULD BE BAILING US OUT.

>> STUDYING THE SOFTWARE THAT SHOCKINGLY THEY'RE NOT LOOKING AT HOW TO PROPERLY FUND THE UNEMPLOYMENT SYSTEM.

WHERE ARE LAWMAKERS RIGHT NOW WHEN IT COMES TO LONG-TERM SOLVENCY, OR AT LEAST HALF SOLVENCY OF THE UNEMPLOYMENT SYSTEM?

>> WELL, IT'S BEEN ON THEIR TO DO LIST FOR SEVERAL YEARS.

LAST SESSION THERE WAS AN EFFORT TO TRY TO BRING BOTH OF THOSE SIDES TOGETHER, TO BRING BUSINESS AND LABOR, TO TRY TO FIND SOME SORT OF COMPROMISE, AND THERE WERE A LOT OF LEGISLATIVE HEARINGS, AND THEY PUT -- GO TO PERSON FOR HEAVY LIFT AND IT STILL DIDN'T GET DONE BY THE END OF THE SESSION.

THE GOVERNOR HAS RENEWED HIS CALL FOR LAWMAKERS TO -- DEBT OFF THEIR PRIORITY LIST.

THEY'RE PREOCCUPIED WITH THE STATE BUDGET BUT I WOULD EXPECT SOME ACTION TO START UP AGAIN ON THAT IN THE FALL, FOR SURE.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE URGENCY OF PAYING BACK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS OFF THE TABLE, AT LEAST THIS TIME, BECAUSE OF THE FEDERAL STIMULUS WHICH I ALSO CHUCKLED AT WHEN THAT WAS ANNOUNCED.

I THOUGHT, IS THAT EVEN SOMETHING YOU CAN DO?

YES, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL TAKE YOUR MONEY AND WE'LL JUST PAY IT BACK TO YOU WITH THIS.

BUT YEAH, IT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET DONE FOR SEVERAL YEARS.

DESPITE IT BEING A PRIORITY, AND LIKE YOU SAID, EVERY TIME WE GET ONE OF THESE RECESSION EVENTS, THE CALLS KIND OF RISE UP AGAIN TO DO SOMETHING, AND NOTHING HAS GOTTEN DONE.

>> YEAH, ALL RIGHT, ANOTHER WEEK ANOTHER REPUBLICAN HAS ENTERED THE RACE FOR UTAH SENATE.

THIS WEEK IS MIKE GIBBONS, HE WANTS TO SUCCEED OUTGOING SENATOR ROB PORTMAN.

HE JOINS JOSH MANDELL AND BERNIE MORENO.

GIBBONS SAYS HE AND NOT THE OTHERS IS THE BEST TO RESIST SOCIALISM.

HE RAN UNSUCCESSFULLY -- A NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS ARE STILL CONSIDERING RUNNING, MIKE TURNER, AND AUTHOR J.D.

ADVANCE.

MARK RIVER, MIKE GIBBONS, IS HE THE GUY THAT'S GOING TO CARRY THE TRUMP BANNER INTO A PRIMARY VICTORY?

>> ALMOST A BASEBALL TEAM THAT ANNOUNCED CANDIDATES, SORRY, A BASKETBALL TEAM, BEFORE YOU KNOW IT, IT WILL BE NINE.

THERE WILL BE A CROWDED PRIMARY.

THE FOLKS WHO HAVE ANNOUNCED HAVE ONE THING IN COMMON.

THEY DON'T HAVE AN OFFICE TO DEFEND IN REELECTION.

SOME OF THE ONES YOU MENTIONED DO.

MY CLIENT, CONGRESSMAN BILL JOHNSON FROM EASTERN OHIO, THE STRONGEST TRUMP DISTRICT IN THE STATE, HE'S LOOKING AT THIS CLOSELY.

THIS WILL BE A CROWDED PRIMARY AND WHAT I'VE ADVISED STATEWIDE CANDIDATES, AND ROB PORTMAN, I ADVISED HIM.

THE MORE CROWDED THE PRIMARY THE MORE DIFFICULT IT IS TO PREDICT WHO GETS THROUGH BECAUSE THE NEED TO WIN IN A CROWDED PRIMARY COULD BE AS LITTLE AS 24% OR 25%.

SO RIGHT NOW IT'S THE MAY PRIMARY AND IT'S FOLKS TRYING TO GET CLOSER TO TRUMP WORLD TO SHOW THEY'RE TRUMP BONA FIDES, MUCH LIKE DEMOCRAT CANDIDATES TRIED TO SHOW THEY'RE OBAMA BONA FIDES.

>> HE LEFT HIS JOB AT A FOUNDATION, BECAUSE OF THE TWITTER STATEMENTS HE'S MADE, PERHAPS BECAUSE HE'S CONSIDERING A RUN FOR SENATE HERE IN OHIO.

IS HE A REAL POSSIBILITY OF ENTERING THIS RACE.

>> I THINK YOU HAVE TO KEEP AN EYE ON ANYBODY WHO HAS PERSONAL WEALTH THAT THEY CAN SPEND.

SOME CANDIDATES HAVE IT AND WON'T SPEND IT.

THAT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE.

AND ALSO HAS A $10 MILLION SUPER PAC OUT THERE THAT'S HELPING.

YOU CAN'T TAKE YOUR EYE OFF SOMEONE LIKE THAT.

HE'S SOMEWHAT INSCRUTABLE, DON'T KNOW IF HE'S THE WEALTHY TECHNOGUY WHO WENT TO LAW SCHOOL OR HE'S THE GUY FROM SOUTHWEST OHIO AND HE'LL BE -- HE SAYS HE'S BOTH.

RIGHT NOW I THINK VOTERS STILL SCRATCH THEIR HEADS AND WONDER WHO HE IS.

>> SEBASTIAN, YOU'VE WATCHED OHIO POLITICS A LONG TIME, DO YOU SEE A GUY LIKE STEVE -- GIVING UP HIS CONGRESSIONAL SEAT TO TAKE A STAB AT THE PRIMARIES?

>> HE'S PUBLICLY MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT IF HE THOUGHT THERE WAS A LANE IN WHICH HE COULD RUN AS THE TRADITIONAL CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATE, NOT ANTI-TRUMP, BUT CERTAINLY NOT ONE OF THE TRUMPSTERS, PER SE, AND HE SAW THESE OTHER CANDIDATES ALL SPLITTING THE SAME POOL OF VOTERS, HE MIGHT VERY WELL JUMP IN.

BUT AS MARK SAID, IF HE HAS THE MONEY, IF HE REALLY HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO WAGER THE CAMPAIGN.

HE SAID THAT PUBLICLY.

AFTER JD ADVANCE, I THINK ULTIMATELY THERE WILL BE LESS THERE THAN MEETS THE EYE.

HIS BOOK WAS FASCINATING AND INTERESTING.

WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO IT AND WHAT HE HAS TO SAY ABOUT OUR RESIDENTS OF RURAL OHIO, IT'S ACTUALLY NOT A PARTICULARLY SYMPATHETIC OR SUPPORTIVE BOOK OR WHATEVER AND I THINK AT SOME POINT THERE WILL BE SELECTIVE QUOTES THAT WILL BE USED IF HE'S A CANDIDATE ABOUT WHAT HE'S HAD TO SAY ABOUT THE RESIDENTS OF RURAL OHIO.

THOSE ARE VERY TRUMP AREAS.

>> NO DEMOCRATS HAVE ANNOUNCED OFFICIALLY THEY'RE RUNNING.

IS THERE ACTION GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO COALESCE BEHIND A CANDIDATE, THINK ABOUT TIM RYAN AND NAN WHEY LEE, TWO OF THE MOST PROMINENT DEMOCRATS CONSIDERING RUNS FOR SENATE OR GOVERNOR, ANY NOISE THEY'RE WORKING ON SOMETHING BEHIND CLOSED DOORS?

>> I DON'T KNOW SO MUCH ABOUT WORKING THINGS OUT IN THAT SENSE, BUT THERE'S DEFINITELY DISCUSSIONS AMONGST THE DIFFERENT GROUPS WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ABOUT WHAT KIND OF CANDIDATE THEY WANT TO HAVE AS THEIR NOMINEE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK UP UNTIL ROB PORTMAN HAD ANNOUNCED HIS RETIREMENT, WHICH WAS A SURPRISE TO ALMOST EVERYBODY, THAT THAT SEAT -- THAT THAT SPOT ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIGN WAS -- OR SIDE WAS SEEN AS A SACRIFICIAL LAMB, SO TO SPEAK, AND AT THIS POINT NOW WITH AN OPEN SEAT, AND LOOKING AT THE WAY THAT THE REPUBLICAN SIDE OF THINGS IS STACKING UP, IT'S LOOKING AS MAYBE SOMETHING THAT ISN'T JUST A THROWAWAY, THAT THEY COULD HAVE A CHANCE AT LEAST TO WIN, OR TO HAVE A SOLID FOOTING ON AND BUILD A SOLID TICKET FOR 2022 WITH THE REST OF THE STATEWIDE.

THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION AMONGST DIFFERENT FACTIONS OF THE PARTY OF WHO THAT MIGHT BE.

OF COURSE THERE ARE ALSO THE STATEWIDE SEATS AND SOME PEOPLE HAVE EXPRESSED INTEREST IN BOTH OF THOSE.

INCLUDING DAYTON MAYOR NAN WHALEY, TIM RYAN SAID HE'S RUNNING FOR EVERYTHING AT ONE POINT OR ANOTHER BUT HE IS ONE WHO'S WORKING BEHIND THE SCENES TO BUILD ENDORSEMENTS AND PEOPLE OF COURSE EXPECT HE WILL ANNOUNCE A SENATE RUN AND NOT A GOVERNOR'S RUN.

>> YES.

>> BUT CERTAINLY OTHER NAMES OUT THERE THAT HAVE BEEN THROWN OUT, AMELIA SYKES, THE HOUSE MINORITY LEADER FROM AKRON, AND KEVIN BOYCE IN COLUMBUS, IT'S STILL I THINK SEEN AS FAIRLY OPEN ESPECIALLY SINCE NO ONE HAS OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED.

>> LAST TOPIC, THE LATEST POLICE SHOOTING OF A BLACK MAN PROMPTED A NEW SERIES OF PROTESTS IN DOWNTOWN COLUMBUS THIS WEEK, MUCH SMALLER THAN LAST YEAR'S EVENTS, SOME REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS WANT TO TIGHTEN THE RULES ON PROTESTS, AND TOUGHEN PENALTIES FOR CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE.

SUPPORTERS OF THE BILL SAY THEY'RE NECESSARY TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC, POLICE AND OTHER FIRST RESPONDERS.

CRITICS SAY THE BILLS UNNECESSARILY INFRINGE ON FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS.

I'M GUESSING, BUT I'M THINKING THE REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS OF THE STATE HOUSE SAW WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6th AT THE CAPITOL AND SAID WE CANNOT HAVE THAT HAPPENING AT THE STATE HOUSE AND THAT'S WHY THEY'RE PUSHING THIS LEGISLATION.

RIGHT?

>> SURE.

I THINK MOST OF IT IS COMING FROM THE PROTESTS OF LAST SUMMER, AND THE LAST SESSION -- BUT I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE CONVERSATION TOO.

BECAUSE IN OHIO WE HAD OUR OWN SITUATION WHERE SOME WINDOWS WERE BROKEN AT THE STATE HOUSE, IN OUR SEAT OF GOVERNMENT.

BUT THERE WAS A BILL LAST YEAR TO GET THE BALL ROLLING.

THIS IS A NATIONAL TREND WE'RE SEEING ALSO IN OHIO, THIS IDEA THAT, YOU KNOW, THE PROTESTS LAST YEAR WERE VERY LAWLESS AND VIOLENT AND WE NEED MORE PENALTIES OR STIFFER PENALTIES TO KIND OF REIGN THAT IN, AND IN OHIO WE HAVE FOUR BILLS THAT WOULD IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER DO ONE OF THOSE THINGS, EITHER CREATE NEW PENALTIES AROUND PROTESTS, FOR EXAMPLE, MAKE IT A CRIME TO BLOCK TRAFFIC DURING A PROTEST, AND THAT WAS -- THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'VE SEEN AT SEVERAL PROTESTS IN OHIO OVER THE YEARS, EITHER INTENTIONAL, LIKE UP IN CLEVELAND, AFTER RICE WAS KILLED, OR LAST SUMMER IN COLUMBUS.

IT SEEMED THAT'S WHAT WAS BEING PUSHED IN THE STREET BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE WERE GATHERED DOWNTOWN.

FREE SPEECH ADVOCATES ARE RAISING ALL SORTS OF RED FLAGS ABOUT SOME OF THESE DETAILS INCLUDING SOME CONSERVATIVES WHO SAY THAT THESE THINGS ARE NOT -- THESE EXTRA PENALTIES ARE NOT NEEDED.

>> MARK, YOU'RE A BIG DEFENDER OF FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS.

WHERE IS THAT LINE.

YOU CAN'T BREAK A WINDOW, THAT'S A CRIME.

CAN WE BLOCK A STREET?

DO WE NEED MORE RULES ON THE BOOKS FOR THESE PROTESTS?

>> I DON'T THINK WE NEED MORE RULES.

THE FIRST AMENDMENT ALLOWS PEACEABLE ASSEMBLY AND THE MOMENT YOU BREAK THE LAW, YOU SHOULD BE ARRESTED.

AND -- ARREST THAT PERSON.

EVERY TIME SOMEONE'S HIT, EVERY WINDOW IS BROKEN, IT'S A CRIME, ARREST THAT PERSON.

IT'S ALREADY A CRIME TO HAVE A PEDESTRIAN IN A RIGHT-OF-WAY.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE PROSECUTORS, WHO ARE WILLING TO BRING CHARGES NOW, WHEN PEOPLE THROW BRICKS AND ROCKS AT POLICE OR BREAK WINDOWS OF PRIVATE BUSINESS OWNERS WHO SPENT THEIR HARD EARNED MONEY TO OPEN A BUSINESS, A PROSECUTOR DOESN'T CHARGE THOSE OBVIOUS CRIMES IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE THE NEW STATUTE WILL MAKE PROSECUTORS PROSECUTE NEW CRIMES.

>> SOME OF DISOBEDIENCE MEANS YOU'RE DISOI OBEYING -- SHOULD PROTESTERS BLOCK TRAFFIC OR BREAK INTO A POLICE STATION, SHOULDN'T THEY EXPECT TO BE ARRESTED OR DO THEY THINK THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO GO ON THEIR WAY AND NOT WORRY ABOUT IT?

>> THERE WAS ONCE A TIME WHERE, IN FACT, PROTESTERS EXPECTED TO BE ARRESTED, AND THAT WAS REALLY PART OF THE NOBILITY OF THEIR CAUSE, IF YOU WILL, THAT THEY WOULD ACTUALLY PAY THE PENALTY.

THAT WENT BACK INTO THE OLD CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

I THINK MARK IS RIGHT, LOOK, ENFORCE THE LAWS, ENFORCE THEM WIDELY.

DON'T STAND DOWN OVERLY.

BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO THEN HAVE GREATER PROBLEMS, AND GREATER DISRESPECT FOR THE LAW.

I FELT THE SENATE PRESIDENT ACTUALLY SUMMARIZED IT NICELY WHEN HE EXPRESSED THE SKEPTICISM, SAYING WE ALREADY HAVE LAWS IN PLACE, AND THE MORE BEHAVIOR WE CRIMINALIZE, OR IF WE START UPGRADING EXISTING VIOLATIONS TO LET'S SAY FELONIES, THEN WE'RE REALLY ACTUALLY CREATING MANY MORE PROBLEMS IN TERMS OF PEOPLE'S LIVES.

>> FINAL THOUGHTS AND WE'LL START WITH MIKE WEAVER, YOUR FINAL THOUGHT.

>> IT'S A LITTLE BIT RELATED TO WHAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT.

IN MY TRAININGS AROUND THE STATE.

I TALK TO A LOT OF POLICE OFFICERS, HUNDREDS OF THEM OVER PERIODS OF MONTHS AND MANY ARE COUNTING DOWN THE DAYS TO RETIREMENT OR LOOKING FOR OTHER JOBS, WHAT'S HAPPENING IN AMERICA IS DRIVING GOOD POLICE OUT OF THE DEPARTMENTS AND THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE REPLACED BY SOMEBODY.

FOOLS RUSH IN WHERE ANGELS FEAR TO TREAD.

IT COULD MAKE OUR COMMUNITIES VERY DANGEROUS IF WE LOSE OUR POLICE OFFICERS.

>> HERB ASHER, FINAL THOUGHTS.

>> COLUMBUS NEEDS TO FOCUS MORE ATTENTION ON THE FUTURE VIABILITY OF THE DOWNTOWN AREA, ECONOMICALLY, SOCIALLY, A WHOLE VARIETY OF THINGS, OFFICES ARE NOT GOING TO BE REFILLED, SMALL BUSINESSES ARE STILL HURTING.

THE WHOLE -- OF THE HOMELESS, ALL THOSE THINGS REALLY HURT THE VIABILITY OF THE DOWNTOWN.

>> YEAH.

I TRIED TO FIND A PLACE OPEN FOR LUNCH TODAY, HARD TO DO BECAUSE THE OFFICE WORKERS AREN'T THERE AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO OPEN UP FOR NOBODY.

JACKIE, YOUR FINAL THOUGHTS.

>> LOTS OF REPORTS OF OHIOANS ARRESTED BECAUSE OF THEIR INVOLVEMENT IN THE CAPITOL RIOTS AND YOU MAY HAVE THOUGHT WELL OHIO'S GOT A LOT.

IT TURNS OUT WE HAVE THE SIXTH MOST OF ANY STATE RESIDENTS WHO WERE ARRESTED AND CHARGED WITH CRIMES INVOLVING THAT INCIDENT, 20 OHIOANS THE DOJ ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK IN TOTAL SINCE -- IT HAS BEEN 100 DAYS AS OF FRIDAY.

>> WOW.

>> SINCE JANUARY 6th.

>>> RUNNING FOR U.S. SENATE FROM THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, WE MENTIONED HIM EARLIER, HE HAS HIRED KELLYANNE CONWAY THE FORMER WHITE HOUSE ADVISER, HIS CAMPAIGN ADVISER KELLYANNE CONWAY HAS HIGHER NAME ID THAN HE DOES AS HE BEGINS HIS STATEWIDE RUN IN OHIO.

THAT IS "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR YOU THIS WEEK, CHECK US OUT ONLINE, FACEBOOK AND TWITTER, WATCH EVERY EPISODE ON DEMAND ON OUR WEBSITE WOSU.ORG/COTR.

I'M MIKE THOMPSON, HAVE A GOOD WEEK.

CAPTIONS PROVIDED BY WOSU-TV, THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY -- Captions by VITAC -- www.vitac.com ♪♪