- Cases of COVID 19 trend upward as the United States passes a grim milestone.

Yet many say they're just done with mask protocols and the whole pandemic.

And there's a new superintendent of public instruction in Ohio.

The State Board of Education picked the person originally tapped to run the search.

And the Ohio Supreme Court considers whether to hold redistricting commission members in contempt as the map drawing mess drags on.

Ideas is next.

(energetic music) Hello, and welcome to Ideas.

I'm Rick Jackson.

And for Mike McIntyre, thank you for joining us.

COVID 19 cases continue to trend upward.

Even as many people exhausted by the pandemic say they're moving on.

Ohio's redistricting mess inches closer to federal intervention, and there's a new superintendent of public instruction in Ohio.

The State Board of Education picked the person originally tapped to run the search.

We'll talk about that and the rest of the week's news on the Reporter's Roundtable.

Joining me this week from Ideastream Public Media, managing producer for health Marlene Harris-Taylor.

From the Buckeye Flame editor, Ken Schneck, and in Columbus, Ohio Public Radio Statehouse news bureau chief, Karen Kasler.

So let's get started.

Congressman Jim Jordan of Ohio is among the Republican lawmakers subpoenaed by the committee investigating the January 6th, 2021, riot at the United States Capitol.

This is the first time sitting members of Congress have been subpoenaed.

Have we heard, Karen, anything from the Congressman?

- I mean, you know, there are interviews, including one with a reporter from Spectrum News, from Ohio, with Jordan, where he says he did talk to President Trump on January 6th.

And I think that there are some real questions about what they actually discussed, but we haven't heard anything specifically, I don't think, from Jordan himself throughout this process.

And I think that keeps in line with what some of the other people who are key Trump allies in this have been doing when it comes to the January 6th Commission.

They've been ignoring it, they've been considering it to be a partisan organization, and they just really seem to want to have no part in this.

- Jordan aligns himself with Trump, his district's staunchly in the ex-president's corner.

Any refusal likely wouldn't hurt him in any election.

- Yeah, I mean he won his primary and certainly, in fact, nine of the 10 Trump-endorsed, I'm sorry, nine of the 10 members of Congress from Ohio, who were on the ballot this time around, were endorsed by Trump, and Jordan was of course, one of them, they all won.

And Jordan did speak to a different House Committee in October mentioning that he had spoken to Trump after the riot, but he couldn't talk about, didn't recall how many times he talked to Trump.

So he has, I guess, had some conversations with regard to what he spoke to the former president about on that day.

But you know he hasn't been involved in any of these major investigations and it doesn't seem likely that it's gonna hurt him at all.

I mean, you know, he's on, I don't see any reason why he wouldn't be reelected.

(staid music) - The United States marked the grim milestone of one million COVID 19 deaths this week.

President Joe Biden says Americans must not grow numb to the pandemic and the losses created for so many families.

Marlene, that state of one million American deaths, that is sobering.

- It really is Rick, and I don't know about other people, but the commemorations, this week, have been very moving for me.

So often people have been ready to say, okay, let's move on.

The virus is gone, let's unmask, let's move on with our lives.

But thinking about one million people and just think globally, Rick, it's probably more closer to six million is what I've read.

And people are still dying from this, right?

- Yeah, that six million and the WHO said that if you count all the people who had COVID and died of, according to the record, something else, the number is more like 14 million.

That's just stunning.

- It's stunning, it's staggering.

And NPR had a most wonderful piece this morning, where they highlighted a woman, an African-American woman, who is in her thirties, nine kids, lost her husband, who was the breadwinner for the family.

He was in his thirties.

And we don't think about that.

People think mainly older people passed away.

But there were many people at middle age, young people who have passed away from this, Rick.

And we think about all those people that we lost at one time, of course death happens, people die from many other things, but this was a compact time of two years where we lost a million people.

And then we look around and we wonder why, perhaps, we don't have as many people in the workforce in our country, for example.

- Your team has been working on the currently rising numbers in Northeast Ohio.

And that ties in directly to this idea that people are done.

- Yeah, absolutely.

We even spoke to a doctor who said that basically, that people are not going to go back.

As you mentioned earlier, Rick, cases are rising, but they're not skyrocketing like they did back in December, more of a slow burn, they're coming up.

But we're not seeing the hospitalizations like we saw before, and we're not seeing the deaths like we saw before.

So because of that, people are just done.

They don't wanna wear masks anymore.

But the doctor even said, the best thing to do now is to focus on vaccines, to focus on these antiviral pills we have, to focus on good ventilation and doing things outside, doing those kind of mitigations, instead of thinking about masks right now, and other stay-at-home orders, for example.

- Karen speaking of those orders, Governor DeWine made a name for himself nationally for his handling of the pandemic in the beginning, then he lost support in his party because the numbers were political dynamite.

I'd imagine this is a topic he's hoping to avoid as he runs for reelection.

- Well, he hasn't really talked much about it, other than when he is asked about it.

I mean, he's said that he followed the science and that he did what needed to be done, that, yes, he did order schools closed.

We were the first state to close schools, K through 12 schools in the country, but also he'll talk about how he was among, he pushed for schools to be opened as soon as possible and moved teachers to the top of the line, in terms of getting vaccines.

And so he is, I'm interested to see how his conversations about COVID do change though, now that the primary is behind us and we're moving forward into an election where he might be wanting to seek some support from more moderate Democrats and more moderate voters who were okay with a lot of the ways that Ohio handled COVID, especially at the beginning.

- Marlene mentioned stay at home.

Karen mentioned schools.

Ken, there are no more mandates in place.

The appetite for those is diminished.

Hard to imagine people going back.

- Yeah.

I think the toothpaste is out of the tube on this one and we can't get it back in.

The way this was always framed, was as if there was a beginning and there were these peaks and it was implied that there was an end, whether it came or not.

And so I've actually been to three college commencements in the past eight, nine days, and at each one of them, there was this sentiment expressed to the graduates of, you survived the pandemic and it was past tense.

And I, it's gonna be near impossible to get people to go back.

- Yeah, it is.

While you were speaking, email came in from Pat saying a 44-year-old mother of three, friend of her daughter's, died a few weeks ago.

She had COVID, other complications.

And that's to your point, Marlene, that 44 is too young to be dying, really from anything much less this.

- From anything.

And you know, the other thing that NPR highlighted this morning is that again, this pandemic disproportionately impacted people of color, particularly African-Americans, Hispanics, Native Americans, and people are, the word that they use is with COVID was a snitch, right?

And I love that.

COVID snitched on our society and peeled back the layers, and showed people that there's vulnerable groups out there.

And why is it that, let's just say, take African-Americans, for example, in these jobs where they're on the front lines, where they're in public spaces, where they can be exposed to something like COVID and then not having the access to healthcare and then having more underlying conditions.

So it was just like a triple whammy, right, to hit the African-American community.

And you know what was really sad, Rick, is that when we in the media talked about that, instead of it bringing up empathy in people, and them saying, well, you know what, I should wear my mask because this is affecting these communities of color, it had the opposite effect.

- Many people thought, well, you know what, that's not impacting me, so I could throw off my mask.

(staid music) - The redistricting saga over state legislative maps continues.

Every week brings the state closer to a federal court stepping in to mandate the maps to be used to decide Ohio's House and Senate District boundaries.

Maps already ruled unconstitutional by the Ohio Supreme Court.

The Commission has until May 28th to work it out.

Karen, do we have any idea what explanations the commission members have given for not being held in contempt?

- Yeah, they've all filed paperwork with the Ohio Supreme Court, specifically saying their reasons.

I mean, Keith Faber, State Auditor says, hey, he had voted against the most recent plan, saying he didn't feel it's, or didn't feel it's constitutional, so he shouldn't be held in contempt.

Governor Mike DeWine says that this is just another attempt by the petitioners or the, the people who are challenging these maps, to get this to happen, and that it's inappropriate, essentially.

You've got two new members of the Ohio Redistricting Commission, Senator Rob McColley and representative Jeff LaRe, their basic argument is, hey, we just got here, we just filed a couple of papers here, we shouldn't be held in contempt.

And Franklin LaRose says he's just doing his job as Secretary of State in trying to get a primary to go forward on August 2nd.

But it's interesting that the Democrats on the Commission, House Minority Leader, Allison Russo and Senator Vernon Sykes, say that they feel the contempt must be issued this time because the commissioners, Republican commissioners, have so clearly violated their obligations, as they said in that filing.

So yeah, this is, we're approaching the end of this.

I think that it's, I'm confident in saying that because we do have this March 28th deadline from a federal court where a map will be implemented.

If one hasn't been determined by the Ohio Supreme Court to be constitutional.

So we're close to the end.

This contempt thing may be one of the last things that we see if it even goes forward.

- Yeah, May 28th, I think you said March, that's when it snowed, so don't there.

- [Karen] Yeah, March 28th, May 28th, definitely.

- [Marlene] We don't wanna go back.

(laughs) - No, we don't only go back.

Even if Karen, even if the Ohio Supreme Court holds commission members in contempt, does that really have any impact on the process?

- I mean, public officials have been held in contempt before, so no.

I think what it could potentially do though, is trigger maybe some reaction from the legislature.

I mean, there have been some rumblings from Republicans that Chief Justice, Maureen O'Connor, who is a Republican, who has been ruling with Democrats against these maps throughout this process, that she could be impeached.

And so I wonder if that might be something that could happen if indeed contempt, if the Republican commissioners who voted for all these maps were held in contempt.

But there are individual sanctions for contempt, but I just, I don't see how it really makes a difference at this point, and whether they would be levied against those officials.

(staid music) - Provisional data released by the federal government this week, estimates 108,000 people died from drug overdoses in 2021.

Researchers say more than 80,000 of the deaths involved opioids, specifically, fentanyl.

Can addiction experts particularly concerned that fentanyl's showing up in other drugs, putting people at risk as they're experimenting with something, and not expecting this?

- Yeah.

I actually got my start, the start of my career was in alcohol and other drug education.

That's how I entered my field.

So this one, this one hits hard and it hits deeply.

So yeah, experts here in Cuyahoga County have said that there are all of these drugs that have absolutely nothing to do with fentanyl, drugs that are being prescribed for or not prescribed, being taken for anxiety, focus, or for pain, might have fentanyl in them.

And that this is an increase in drugs that are made to tap into a market beyond, right, beyond those addicted to opiates.

So I can tell you as someone who was a dean of students for 10 years, this is my absolute nightmare on a college campus.

I can't even wrap my mind around three students in one related experience.

And so the conversations that we need to have about drugs, both prescribed and not prescribed, that have nothing to do with opiates, we have to have a ton of conversations.

- Yeah, you were talking earlier about being at commencements and hearing moments of silence where people lost to COVID- - [Ken] Oh, yeah.

- But we're having moments of silence fore people lost to opioids as well.

- We are.

Yeah I, again this is any dean of student's absolute nightmare.

- And, Rick, I just wanted to add too, that the United Way of Cleveland is hosting a conversation on Thursday to talk about the mental health and substance abuse community.

And one of the things that has come out of this accommodation of COVID and losing people, is that providers are really struggling.

They don't have people to help folks who are struggling with say addiction.

If they're reaching out, they don't have the personnel, they don't have doctors, nurses, and down the line the provide the people who help folks with all mental health issues, including substance abuse, are like sending out a cry for help that that we need people.

- And where those conversations are happening, right, and we know that they're not happening nearly enough, we know that they are exponentially less happening on college campuses and in high schools where, well, gosh, that's not the portrait of someone who's addicted to opiates.

So let's not focus our attention and our funding on that population, when in fact, absolutely, there's a huge population of college students, of high school students, who we are suffering from addiction and need that support.

- And I think part of the reason we're not looking there is because we've been so singularly focused on COVID for the past, like 27, 28 months now.

I know you've, your team has still been doing reporting on opioids- - [Marlene] Right.

- But it's taken a back burner.

- It's had to take a backseat.

And I mean, speaking of college campuses, college campuses are struggling to provide mental health services- - [Ken] Oh yeah.

- For students, 'cause students have been overwhelmed by this whole, this, the past two years, the isolation, the dealing with everything that we've all been through.

And so they don't even have the service providers to help the students who are struggling through all this.

- Wait lists.

We're seeing wait lists across college campuses to get in and see a mental health provider.

(staid music) - The American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio is challenging an abortion law in the southwest city of Lebanon.

That law would not only ban abortions, but would punish those who help women get abortions outside the city.

Karen, tell us about this.

Law bans abortion within the city borders, and that city has no clinics.

- Right, this is the idea of abortion sanctuary cities.

And I think there are a couple communities that have tried to do this, but Lebanon, Ohio, is the first, I believe, to go ahead and make that a city ordinance.

And it wouldn't charge a woman who is, with receiving an abortion, as a crime, but there would be this whole illegal to aid and abet someone who's getting an abortion outside the city, kind of along the same lines of the law in Texas where it's, if you're helping somebody, you can be kind of held responsible.

And the ACLU stepped in and said that they were gonna sue over this saying that it's not, this is not right to potentially charge people who are providing assistance to women who receive abortions.

And it's really not necessarily related to the Dobbs case that we're expecting a ruling to come down next month from the U.S. Supreme Court.

That was, of course the leaked draft majority opinion that we saw that said that essentially, Roe, the regulation of abortions from Roe versus Wade was gonna be turned back over to the states.

But, so this is a battle that I think the ACLU was expecting to fight when it came to the whole idea of free speech here, and whether you can assist somebody to leave the community to go have a procedure that, right now, is constitutional.

- Ken, Buckeye Flame's been doing reporting this week, how this battle over abortion access does impact the LGBTQ community.

- I can hardly think of an issue that is more intersectional than this one.

Intersectionality of course, the proposal to ban that in HB 616, a whole different bill here in Ohio, but this affects the entire LGBTQ community, this affects all of our society, certainly our bisexual siblings, our lesbian siblings, our trans siblings with any legislation that will criminalize people who assist others in pursuing their reproductive health.

This is absolutely an LGBTQ-plus issue.

And so it's so critical that, as we've been highlighting and reporting and speaking with Planned Parenthood Advocates of Ohio, that people really do use their voices.

And so what we're seeing, even in some of the rallies in the past two weeks, has been a lot of intersectionality as well.

Not just about curricular bans, but also saying here's the wide panoply of issues that are affecting the LGBTQ community, including reproductive freedom.

There's a big rally this weekend here in Cleveland at the Free Stamp.

- We were talking earlier about the idea of redistricting drawing people to the polls or the idea of marijuana drawing people to the polls.

This issue certainly could draw people to the polls.

- You would hope, right?

So if anyone needs to be convinced about the importance of, 'cause right, this is where again where we have to remind people, it's not about that this latest case, it would not ban abortion.

It would revert the power back to the states.

And if we need any more explanation of the importance of these statewide elections, this is going to be one of them.

So you would hope this would help convince people, oh my gosh, I should probably, after they figure out the maps and I figure out where it is I vote, that I should probably get my voice heard here.

- But abortion energizes people on both sides, right?

- It does, yeah.

- So I heard Mitch McConnell, the minority leader of the Republicans in the Senate say this morning that he thinks it'll be a wash. - [Rick] I did hear that, yeah.

- That they'll be people from each side coming out.

We don't know if that's true, if one side or the other will be energized more, but at least that's his assessment.

- [Rick] Karen, go ahead.

- But I I'd also add that in this draft majority opinion, which of course is a draft and we don't know what's gonna happen, we don't know what it's gonna look like in the final reveal, but on our TV show, the State of Ohio, this week I talked to a law professor from Ohio State, named Marc Spindelman, talking about the idea of, could this be broadened, could other potential rights that are connected to Roe and the right to privacy be potentially on the table?

We're talking about same sex marriage, birth control, because Roe versus Wade comes directly from a case that talked about the right to privacy for married couples who were seeking to use birth control.

Could birth control potentially be an issue that could motivate voters.

I mean, whether you are for or against abortion rights, you may have a different opinion or you may have even stronger opinion on birth control and same sex marriage and some of these other issues and the right to privacy, in general.

And so I wonder if those are going to be issues that you're gonna hear more about after we actually see what the majority opinion looks like when it comes to whether people are gonna be motivated to vote this year.

- And President Biden, sorry, President Biden certainly shouted that out this week in some remarks that he delivered, that we could be looking at reversals of Lawrence v. Texas and all of those right to privacy issues.

- Yeah, I was just gonna say that I think we certainly will see all those issues brought up, because Democrats are hoping that those issues will energize their base.

The fact that this could be broadened to other rights.

So to your point, Karen, I think we absolutely will see that talked about more.

- Now some anti-abortion activists will tell you that it's fear mongering to even talk about this, which I think is interesting.

But of course we don't know until we see the final majority opinion.

So once we see that, then we can have even more explanation and speculation on what will happen with the court following when it comes to other cases.

(staid music) - Ohio has its new superintendent of public instruction.

The State Board of Education this week, appointed Steve Deakin, who at one time, had led the search process.

He succeeds Paolo DeMaria.

He was the former VP of the State Board of Education, he has more than 40 years experience, he was superintendent in Reynoldsburg, he was superintendent of school and community partnerships for Columbus State, but he was also the guy tasked with running the search and then he quits and applies for the job himself and gets it.

You had to be confused by that.

- I literally have nothing to share on this topic, except the optics are so entertaining, right?

And so I get it, sir, you're, you're qualified, but you gotta see that this doesn't look good.

It doesn't- - Well, you teach at a university, you have to be watching this landscape.

- Oh yeah, I mean, I'm a professor of education.

And I am watching this landscape and we certainly have a lot of conversations with our students about leadership.

I have to say, as I was thinking about this story, I said to a colleague the other day, we really need to get a course in there on the public policy aspects of K through 12 education, to talk about things when things like this happen, or critical race theory or all the other things that are coming up in K through 12 education.

The problem is, and this is kind of my cop-out answer, is that we're not having these conversations because what Ohio has said for the standards of what we have to teach, there's no room to have these conversations.

So there's a whole different conflict, but yeah, this is an unbelievable story.

I think he's gonna get the job too.

- Yeah, Karen, this appointment comes, as he was saying, parents seeking more control over curriculum, over all kinds of things, critical race theory, et cetera.

Where does he fall on the issue of parental control over curriculum?

- Oh, I think that was something that the other applicants really were targeting as things that they saw were political agendas and certainly things that have come up in school board races.

As you recall last year when there were a lot of school board candidates, a record number of, especially brand new, candidates to school board races, who really wanted to get into the questions of politics in school boards and specifically, the Republican talking points about so-called critical race theory and the things that, the so-called divisive concepts that are being taught in schools.

but Deakin and said that his priority was gonna be on learning loss during the pandemic, which is interesting because I mean, there's real evidence that shows that there has been significant learning loss, that kids are still trying to recover from what they've lost during the pandemic.

So he says that's gonna be his focus, but he did also vote to rescind the State School Board's resolution that was passed right after the George Floyd murder and the demonstrations that were happening about racism and, and the need for equity in schools.

That was passed by the State School Board, but then was rescinded, and he was one of those who voted to rescind it.

So he's a Republican.

He certainly appears to be aligned with those folks who were concerned about that resolution, which just acknowledged that there are issues when it comes to inequity and a huge performance gap among less advantaged and quite often, African-American students versus their wealthier counterpart.

(staid music) - If you're looking to buy a house, especially as a first-time buyer, the real estate market can be difficult.

State Senator Bill Blessing, Republican from Hamilton County, has introduced to bill to help.

- This is a bill that specifically makes it harder for corporations to buy homes in bulk.

And we're talking about homes that are being foreclosed upon.

Corporations obviously have the cash to go out and make these offers and get them right away.

And that's what a lot of, especially first-time home buyers, are finding, is they're trying to go out and buy homes that they're being scooped or out-bid, or in some way being thwarted by others who have a lot more money.

And so this is an opportunity to potentially allow some first-time home buyers to have that chance.

(staid music) - The summer of 2022 is shaping up to be busy for travelers to Ohio.

Tourism Ohio says the industry is bouncing back and reached near pre-pandemic levels last summer.

And this year, shaping up to be even bigger, as festivals, concerts, and events make comebacks.

Marlene, anything you're looking forward to this year, an attraction to get out there?

- Oh yes, well I live in Shaker and there used to be music in Shaker Square every summer.

And I'm really hoping that that comes back.

But also going down to the beach, of course.

- Ken, what are you looking forward to?

- I think I would get kicked out of my neighborhood if I didn't say Edgewater Park and just being able to, I'm not incurring the wrath of Jenny Spencer.

Yeah, no, it's Edgewater Park.

I love that I can walk there and just experience so many different types of environment in one space.

- [Marlene] I love Edgewater Park.

- Yeah.

- [Marlene] Great, great asset to Cleveland.

- [Rick] And Karen and I will continue to do baseball games everywhere we can, right?

- Yeah.

In fact, I'm gonna go down to the other city, to Cincinnati, to go see a baseball game this year, and also on Monday, hopefully, taking my son to Cedar Point for the first time.

- [Marlene] All right.

- Okay.

Front seat, I know where you like to sit.

(laughs) - Monday on the Sound of Ideas on 89.7, WKSU, we'll discuss efforts to save the local honeybee population, including a movement to get folks to park their lawnmowers during the month of may.

I'm Rick Jackson.

Thanks for watching.

(soft music) (lively fanfare)