♪.

TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

WE'LL HEAR ABOUT PROGRAMS AND SUBSIDIES COMING TO AN END AS NATIONAL AND PUBLIC EMERGENCIES ARE SET TO EXPIRE.

>>> ALSO TONIGHT, ENROLLMENT IN THE STATE EXPANDED VOUCHER PROGRAM IS MUCH HIGHER THAN EXPECTED.

>>> AND HEAR ABOUT THE RISKS OF TRAVELING TO OTHER COUNTRIES FOR MEDICAL PROCEDURES.

THOSE STORIES AND MORE NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

ANNOUNCER: THIS HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS IS MADE POSSIBLE BY CONTRIBUTIONS OF FRIENDS OF PBS, MEMBERS OF YOUR PBS STATION, THANK YOU.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

AS OF LATE THIS AFTERNOON, FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP HAS YET TO BE ARRESTED OVER A $130,000 HUSH MONEY PAYMENT TO A FORMER PORN STAR ON THE EVE OF THE 2016 ELECTION.

PROSECUTORS ARE REPORTEDLY PREPARING FELONY CHARGES IN THE CASE AND LOOKING SPECIFICALLY HOW THE ALLEGED HUSH MONEY WAS RECORDED AND REIMBURSED.

TRUMP STATED HE EXPECTS TO BE ARRESTED TODAY, AND SUPPORTERS HAVE GATHERED OUTSIDE HIS HOME IN FLORIDA.

SO FAR AS OF LATE THIS AFTERNOON, NO INDICTMENTS AND NO ARRESTS.

>>> THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION PROPOSED SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO THE STATE'S SCHOOL VOUCHER HANDBOOK ACCORDING TO THE "ARIZONA REPUBLIC" WHICH REPORTS REVISED HANDBOOK WILL INCLUDE LOWERING CREDENTIALS FOR TEACHERS AND TUTORS, LABELING SCHOOLS THAT RECEIVE VOUCHERS AS NONGOVERNMENTAL SCHOOLS AND ALLOWING PRIVATE SCHOOLS TO CONDUCT SPECIAL EDUCATION ASSESSMENTS INSTEAD OF THE CURRENT REQUIREMENT THAT STUDENTS BE EVALUATED BY NEARBY PUBLIC SCHOOL.

THE FIRST TIME THE HANDBOOK IS REVISED SINCE THE VOUCHER PROGRAM WAS EXPANDED TO INCLUDE ALL STUDENTS.

MUCH MORE LATER IN THE SHOW.

>>> NEW EVIDENCE SUPPORTS THEORY THAT CORONAVIRUS ORIGINATED IN NATURE AND NOT IN THE LAB.

INTERNATIONAL TEAM OF RESEARCHERS REANMIZED GENOMIC MATERIAL FOUND IN A MARKET IN WUHAN, CHINA IN EARLY 2020.

SOME SAMPLES TESTED POSITIVE FOR TRACES OF THE VIRUS AND THE SAME SAMPLES CONTAIN DNA FROM ANIMALS KNOWN TO BE SUSCEPTIBLE TO THE INFECTION.

THE TEST RESULTS SHOW LIVE ANIMALS TRADED AT THE MARKET COULD HAVE PASSED THE VIRUS TO HUMANS.

AMONG THE ANIMALS WERE RACCOON DOGS, RED FOXES, RABBITS, CATS AND DOGS.

>>> PRESIDENT BIDEN IS SET TO END COVID-19 NATIONAL AND PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCIES ON MAY 11.

SOME SUBSIDIES AND PROGRAMS HAVE GONE AWAY OR SET TO EXPIRE AT THE END OF THIS MONTH.

WE WELCOME WILL HUMBLE.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

I GOT TO TELL YOU.

RESEARCHING THIS ONE HAD ME GOING UP AND DOWN SIDEWAYS.

LOTS GOING ON HERE.

ENDING THE NATIONAL PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY.

WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENS IN MAY?

WHAT'S ALREADY HAPPENED?

>> BUNCH OF THINGS ALREADY HAPPENED.

IF YOU RECALL AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC, PEOPLE GOT MORE MONEY FOR FOOD STAMPS CALLED THE SUPPLEMENTAL NUTRITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, CALLED S.N.A.P.

NOW.

WHEN GOVERNOR DUCEY ENDED STATE EXECUTIVE ORDER FOR THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY, THOSE BENEFITS DROPPED OFF BACK LAST YEAR.

SOME OTHER THINGS ARE ABOUT TO HAPPEN, AND WE COULD GO THROUGH SOME OF THOSE.

TED: SURE IN THE BIGGEST ONE REALLY IS THAT MEDICAID, AHCCCS, OUR STATE MEDICAID PROGRAM, DURING THE FEDERAL PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY, DIDN'T DISENROLL PEOPLE EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY HAVE GOTTEN A BETTER JOB OR HEALTH INSURANCE THROUGH THE JOB SO, THEY SUSPENDED REDETERMINATION OF ELIGIBILITY IN AHCCCS, AND BEGINNING APRIL 1 BEFORE THE END OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY, FEDERAL PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY IS GOING TO END ON MAY 11.

STARTING APRIL 1, AHCCCS IS GOING TO BEGIN THE REDETERMINATION PROCESS TO ENSURE THAT THE MEDICAID MEMBERS STILL QUALIFY TO BE PART OF THE MEDICAID PROGRAM.

TED: FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, YOU'RE TALKING A QUARTER OF A 2.5 MILLION ENROLLED.

COULD THEY LOSE ELIGIBILITY HERE IN.

>> AHCCCS'S ESTIMATES ARE IN THE 800,000 RANGE, BUT SOME OF THOSE, THOSE ARE PEOPLE WHO COULD LOSE COVERAGE.

ABOUT HALF OF THEM NEED TO LOSE COVERAGE BECAUSE THEY GOT HEALTH INSURANCE THROUGH THE JOB, OTHERWISE QUALIFY FOR DIFFERENT PROGRAMS.

THEY'RE CONCERNED A FEW HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE WOULDN'T HAVE UPDATED THEIR ADDRESSES, AND SO WON'T RESPOND QUICKLY TO AHCCCS'S REQUEST FOR FINANCIAL INFORMATION.

SO THEY'RE DOING A FULL-COURT PRESS, AHCCCS IS, TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE EVERYBODY'S CONTACT INFORMATION SO THEY CAN UPDATE SO THE LETTERS GO TO THE RIGHT ADDRESS, WHEN THEY NEED TO REPLY.

TED: I IMAGINE, YOU CAN'T IGNORE THIS, YOU GOT TO REPLY?

>> RIGHT, IF THEY DON'T, THEY'LL DISENROLL YOU AND YOU GO TO THE DOCTOR AND SAY YOU DON'T HAVE INSURANCE.

TED: THAT'S IN TWO WEEKS?

>> STARTS IN TWO WEEKS, BUT IT WILL BE A MULTIMONTH PROCESS WHERE THEY GO THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS.

TED: ALL RIGHT, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE NATIONAL PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCIES.

TALK ABOUT COVID TESTING AND TREATMENT.

WHAT CHANGES?

>> SO A BUNCH OF THE MEDICATIONS, THE ANTIVIRAL MEDICATIONS AND SO FORTH WERE EMERGENCY USE AUTHORIZED, NOT LICENSED OR APPROVED BY FDA, AND SO WHEN THE FEDERAL PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY ENDS, THOSE MEDICATIONS AND TESTS THAT WERE ONLY EMERGENCY USE AUTHORIZED AND NOT APPROVED WILL END.

THE ABILITY TO SELL THOSE PRODUCTS ENDS, AND SO I'M SURE THEY'RE TRYING RUSH TO GET APPROVAL FOR SOME OF THOSE PRODUCTS.

THAT'S ONE BIG FEDERAL CHANGE, BUT THERE'S ALSO A BUNCH OF FLEXIBILITY THAT MEDICAID HAD, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THE MEDICAID PROGRAM THAT WILL END.

SOME FLEXIBILITIES IN TERMS OF PAYMENTS TO PROVIDERS AND SO FORTH.

TED: VACCINES, VACCINATIONS, GOING TO START COSTING MONEY?

>> THAT'S THE OTHER THING GOING TO CHANGE.

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN BUYING THE VACCINE AND REIMBURSING FOR ADMINISTRATION FEES DURING THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY, AND AFTER IT ENDS, IT WILL BE JUST LIKE ANY OTHER VACCINE, LIKE INFLUENZA VACCINE, JUST LIKE THAT, WHERE IT'S TIED TO YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE AND NOT JUST SHOWING UP SOMEWHERE BECAUSE THE FEDS ARE PAYING FOR IT, SO IT'S GOING TO MOVE IT IN TO BECOME, LIKE INFLUENZA, PART OF REGULAR HEALTH INSURANCE.

TED: MEDICARE, HOW DOES MEDICARE LOOK AT THIS?

>> WE COULD DO A WHOLE SHOW ON THAT.

THERE'S A BUNCH OF CHANGES THAT WILL HAPPEN WITH MEDICARE, DRUG PRICES AND THOSE THINGS, BUT NOTHING OF HUGE CONSEQUENCE, I THINK.

TED: VACCINES WOULD STILL BE NO COST?

>> DEPENDS ON HEALTH INSURANCE.

NOW THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT SAID THAT VACCINES NEED TO BE FIRST DOLLAR COVERAGE BY HEALTH PLAN, SO IN GENERAL, IF YOU HAVE INSURANCE, BE COVERED STILL, BUT DEPENDS WHAT PLAN YOU BOUGHT.

IF YOU BOUGHT ONE OF THE SHORT-TERM PLANS, IT MAY NOT.

I CAN'T GIVE A FULL-ON YES, IT WILL STILL BE FREE ANSWER BECAUSE IT DEPENDS ON HEALTH INSURANCE.

TED: IN GENERAL WITH INSURANCE, SEEMED LIKE DURING THE PANDEMIC, OUT OF NETWORK, IN AMERICA, DIDN'T MATTER AS MUCH AS IT DID PREVIOUSLY.

IS IT GOING TO MATTER AGAIN?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

FOR COVID ESPECIALLY.

TED: YES.

>> FOR COVID, NOT FOR OTHER STUFF.

TED: OKAY.

HOSPITALS.

HOW ARE HOSPITALS AFFECTED BY THIS?

BECAUSE AGAIN SUBSIDIES AND NOT HAVING TO PAY FULL AMOUNTS, WE SAW THAT DURING COVID.

THAT'S GOING TO BE GOING AWAY, HUH?

>> SUPPLEMENTAL PAYMENTS GO AWAY FOR COVID PATIENTS.

THAT PART OF IT IS GOING TO END WITH THE FEDERAL PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY.

STILL GET PAID FOR MEDICARE MEMBERS BUT WON'T GET THE SUPPLEMENTAL PAYMENTS THAT THEY USED TO GET DURING THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY.

TED: 20% INCREASE, SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES.

>> YOU GOT IT.

YOU DID HOMEWORK.

TED: YOU MENTIONED FOOD STAMPS.

TALK MORE ABOUT THIS.

DIDN'T ARIZONA ALREADY LOSE -- HOW DO WE STAND AS FAR AS FOOD STAMPS AND S.N.A.P.

IS CONCERNED?

>> THE EXTRA MONEY THAT CAME WITH THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY ENDED IN 2021 WHEN THE GOVERNOR ENDED THE STATE EMERGENCY.

TED: THAT'S A BIT IN THE REARVIEW MIRROR.

>> CORRECT.

TED: TELEHEALTH, THE NATURE OF TELEHEALTH SEEMED TO CHANGE DURING COVID.

WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE EMERGENCIES, WHAT HAPPENS IN THE FUTURE?

>> I THINK THAT COVID-19 MOVED TELEMEDINTO THE NETWORK FOREVER.

INCLUDING AHCCCS.

THERE WERE A LOT OF INSURERS AND ALSO MEDICAID PROGRAMS AND MEDICARE THAT WERE RELUCTANT TO REIMBURSE TELEMEDFULLY BECAUSE THEY'RE AFRAID OF FRAUD AND ABUSE AND STUFF, AND THEY'VE ALL REALIZED THIS IS A REAL BONUS FOR PATIENT CARE, SO I DON'T EXPECT, I THINK TELEMED IS HERE TO STAY.

TED: HERE TO STAY IF I WANT MY DOCTOR IN COLORADO OR ARIZONA, THOSE WERE LIMITATIONS BEFORE?

>> THERE'S NO SINGLE ANSWER TO THAT.

TED: OKAY.

BOTTOM LINE, LAST QUESTION, THE SHIFT TO THE COMMERCIAL MARKET FROM OBVIOUSLY GOVERNMENT CONTROL.

HOW'S THAT GOING?

>> WELL, WE'LL SEE.

I MEAN, I THINK, HERE'S ONE THING, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF LEAD TIME.

THIS ISN'T SOMETHING THAT JUST POPPED UP ON THE RADAR SCREEN.

EVERYBODY'S HAD SEVERAL MONTHS TO GET THEIR PLANNING TOGETHER SO THEY CAN FIGURE OUT THE REIMBURSEMENT DIFFERENCES ON THE COVID STUFF, THE VACCINES, THE ANTIVIRAL MEDICATION.

SUPPLEMENTAL PAYMENTS TO HOSPITALS, ET CETERA.

TED: ORDERLY WINDDOWN HAS BEEN ACHIEVED, SO FAR?

>> SO FAR.

I EXPECT IT TO BE PRETTY SMOOTH.

THERE'S A LOT OF LEAD TIME.

TED: ALL RIGHT, WILL.

GOOD STUFF.

THANKS FOR CLEARING SOME OF THIS UP FOR US, APPRECIATE IT.

>> MY PLEASURE.

TED: UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," THE GROWING PRICE TAG OF THE EXPANDED SCHOOL VOUCHER PROGRAM.

.

TED: ENROLLMENT IN THE STATE'S UNIVERSAL SCHOOL VOUCHER PROGRAM IS MORE THAN EXPECTED AND COSTING THE STATE MORE THAN BUDGET OFFICIALS HAD ORIGINALLY THOUGHT.

MARY JO PITZL OF "THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC" AND AZCENTRAL.COM JOINS US NOW.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR INVITING ME ON.

TED: DEFINE TERMS, ARIZONA'S UNIVERSAL VOUCHER, CALL IT WHAT YOU WILL, WHAT IS IT?

>> A NEW LAW PASSED LAST YEAR THAT SAYS ANY CHILD IN ARIZONA IS ENTITLED TO APPLY FOR AND RECEIVE EMPOWERMENT SCHOLARSHIP ACCOUNT.

THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO STUDENTS ALREADY IN PRIVATE SCHOOLS, BUT IT DOES APPLY TO ANY OTHER STUDENT WHO MIGHT WANT TO TRANSFER FROM A DISTRICT SCHOOL, CHARTER SCHOOL OR COME IN STRAIGHT OUT OF KINDERGARTEN OR STRAIGHT INTO KINDERGARTEN IN THE PRIVATE SYSTEM.

TED: THIS IDEA WAS VOTED DOWN PRETTY SIGNIFICANTLY BY VOTERS IN, WHAT, 2018?

>> I THINK 2018, THERE WAS A BALLOT MEASURE.

THE LEGISLATURE PASSED THE LAW ALLOWING, CREATING WHAT IS COMMONLY CALLED UNIVERSAL VOUCHER.

IT HAD LIMITS ON IT, ONLY SO MUCH MONEY COULD GO OUT EACH YEAR, SO MANY SCHOLARSHIPS COULD BE ALLOCATED IN A GIVEN YEAR OVER TIME.

THIS ONE, THOUGH, VOTERS TOOK THIS TO THE BALLOT, THE VOTERS SAID WE DON'T LIKE THE PROGRAM, BUT IN LATE 2022, JUNE OF 22, LATE IN THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION, DIFFERENT LEGISLATURE SAID WE'RE PASSING THIS, THEY HAD THE VOTES, NO LIMITS ON IT IN TERMS OF EXPENDITURE.

THE QUESTION IS HOW MUCH THIS WILL COST THE STATE.

TED: THAT'S WHAT YOU WROTE ABOUT, SOUND LIKES IT'S COSTING A HECK OF A LOT MORE THAN BUDGET OFFICIALS ORIGINALLY THOUGHT?

>> MAYBE NOT YET.

IT'S REALLY HARD TO TELL, NOBODY HAS DONE THIS BEFORE.

ARIZONA IS THE FIRST STATE TO HAVE A UNIVERSAL VOUCHER PROGRAM.

THEY MADE GUESSES AND, WELL, MAYBE WE'LL NEED AN EXTRA 200 MILLION IN THE BUDGET FOR THIS YEAR TO COVER THE COST OF THIS.

THE COST IS PROBABLY GIVEN THE ENROLLMENT TRENDS CLOSER TO 250 MILLION.

THERE'S A LOT OF MATH AND EXCEPTIONS HERE.

HARD TO NAIL THAT DOWN.

BUT THERE'S NO MONEY RIGHT NOW IN THE K-12 BUDGET TO PAY FOR THESE UNIVERSAL VOUCHERS.

ONLY FOR THE VOUCHER PROGRAMS THAT EXISTED EARLIER, SUCH AS FOR DISABLED CHILDREN, FOSTER KIDS, CHILDREN OF MILITARY.

TED: 200 MILLION MORE THAN EXPECTED, ORIGINAL THOUGHT WAS 30 SOME ODD MILLION DOLLARS.

OBVIOUSLY, THAT'S BLOWN OUT OF THE WATER THERE.

THE MONEY WOULD COME FROM RAINY DAY FUND, $1.8 BILLION?

WHERE?

>> WE HAVE A $1.8 BILLION SURPLUS.

THAT'S WHERE YOU GO TO GET MONEY TO SHORE UP THIS YEAR'S BUDGET.

THEY NEED TO DO THAT BY JUNE 30 BEFORE THE BUDGET YEAR CLOSES OUT.

PLENTY OF MONEY FOR THAT.

THE QUESTION IS HOW IS THIS GOING TO PLAY OUT OVER TIME?

IF THERE ARE NO CAPS AS THE EARLIER LAW PROPOSED, THEN WHAT DO YOU DO?

CERTAINLY, IF A CHILD COMES OUT, THE PARENT TAKES THEM OUT OF LOCAL PUBLIC SCHOOL, PUTS THEM IN -- APPLIES FOR A VOUCHER, THAT'S GOING TO TAKE MONEY OUT OF THAT SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET.

ABOUT 90% OF THAT MONEY WILL FOLLOW WITH THE CHILD, BUT IF THE POPULATION IS MORE KIDS ARE COMING IN, THE FIVE-YEAR-OLD IS STARTING SCHOOL.

NEVER BEEN IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL OR HOME-SCHOOLER WHO'S NEVER BEEN IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL, THAT MONEY COMES STRAIGHT OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND WHICH WE USE TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING ELSE IN GOVERNMENT, AND THAT BUDGET -- THAT WILL BE MORE MONEY INTO THE K-12 BUDGET, ASSURED TO KEEP GROWING YEAR AFTER YEAR.

TED: KEEP GROWING, HAS EXPANDED QUITE A BIT NOW.

34,000 MORE OR LESS EXPECTED, 34,000 MORE KIDS THAN EXPECTED.

IS THAT TRUE?

>> THAT'S WHAT THE PROJECTIONS ARE.

SINCE WE WROTE THE STORY, LATE LAST WEEK, THE DEPARTMENT OF ED WEEKLY POSTS AN UPDATE AND ADDED ANOTHER 622 STUDENTS TO THE PROGRAM.

WE HAVE NOW MORE THAN 50,000 STUDENTS IN ALL TYPES OF VOUCHER PROGRAMS.

TED: REACTION BY LAWMAKERS, THE ENROLLEE, THE COST IS HIGHER, AND AS YOU SAID IT'S GOING TO BE GOING UP.

REACTION BY LAWMAKERS?

>> WELL, THE REPUBLICANS IN CONTROL AND RUN THE BUDGET COMMITTEES ARE LIKE WE GOT THE MONEY AND COMMITTED TO PAYING FOR EDUCATION AND, IN FACT, THE SKINNY BUDGET THEY SENT UP TO GOVERNOR HOBBS IN EARLY FEBRUARY WHICH SHE PROMPTLY VETOED.

THEY HAD A TWIST THAT REQUIRE THE K-12 MONEY GO TO PAY FOR UNIVERSAL VOUCHER PROGRAM AND THE OTHER VOUCHERS FIRST BEFORE PAYING OUT THE DISTRICT AND CHARTER SCHOOLS.

A STATEMENT ABOUT WHERE THE PRIORITY IS.

THEY SEEM VERY INTERESTED IN DOING THIS NO MATTER WHAT IT'S GOING TO COST.

THE GOVERNOR AND DEMOCRATS HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEW, AND HOBBS' OFFICE, EARLY ON, SHE SAID IT IN HER STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS, THIS IS GOING TO BANKRUPT THE STATE.

GIVE IT A DECADE, $2.3 BILLION BY THE ESTIMATE, AND PROBABLY REVISED UPWARDS GIVEN THE TREND.

TED: IS THIS PRETTY MUCH ENTIRELY PARTISAN DOWN THERE IN THE LEGISLATURE?

>> YES.

TED: THERE IS NO SQUISHINESS ON EITHER SIDE?

>> NOTHING THAT'S APPARENT.

PEOPLE GETTING TAX REFUNDS ALREADY ARE TALKING ABOUT HOW MUCH BIGGER THE REFUND IS THEY'RE GETTING BACK FROM THE STATE.

WE HAVE A LOWER TAX RATE.

WILL THERE BE A RECESSION?

WHAT EFFECT WOULD THAT HAVE IN ARIZONA?

WHAT ABOUT THE BANK SITUATION THAT'S COME UP?

AND THERE WILL BE PROBABLY ANOTHER TAX CUT OUT OF THE LEGISLATURE THIS YEAR.

THE QUESTION IS, DOWN THE ROAD, WILL THERE BE ENOUGH OF A POOL OF MONEY TO DO THIS?

VETERAN LAWMAKERS LIKE JOHN KAVANAGH SAY LOOK, WE'VE GOT A RAINY DAY FUND TOO, THIS MIGHT BE A CAUSE TO DECIDE IT'S RAINING.

TED: LAST POINT ON THIS, SOME OF US ARE OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER AND BEEN AROUND ENOUGH TO REMEMBER, THE ALT-FUELS FIASCO, THIS REMIND YOU A LITTLE OF THAT?

>> VERY MUCH.

THERE'S NO LIMIT ON THE VOUCHER PROGRAM.

THE AVERAGE COST OF A VOUCHER IS ABOUT $7,000.

WHAT THE LEGISLATURE ALLOTTED.

BUT HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN USE IT?

SAME THING, YOU GET YOUR CAR EQUIPPED AND THE STATE WOULD PICK UP HALF OF THE COST AS LONG AS YOU ARE CONVERTING IT TO A CLEAN-BURNING FUEL.

TED: AND FOLKS RUSHED TO THAT TO THE POINT WHERE GOVERNOR NAPOLITANO -- >> GOVERNOR HULL.

TED: I'M SORRY, GOVERNOR HULL, SAID THIS DOESN'T FLY.

>> YES, IT BLEW UP IN THEIR FACE, AND SHE GAINED THE UNWELCOME MONIKER OF PROPANE JANE BECAUSE THE CONVERSIONS WERE TO PROPANE FUEL AND NATURAL GAS, BUT THAT'S TINY IN DOLLAR AMOUNTS COMPARED TO HERE WITH UNIVERSAL VOUCHERS.

ONE IS A CHOICE ON TRANSPORTATION.

THIS IS A CHOICE ON EDUCATION.

TED: FASCINATING AND MARY JO THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPORTING AND SHARING WITH US AS WELL.

WE'LL KEEP AN EYE ON IT.

>> THERE WILL BE UPDATES, YOU BET.

.

TED: INCREASING NUMBER OF AMERICANS HAVE TAKEN TO TRAVELING INTERNATIONALLY TO SEEK MEDICAL CARE.

THE REASONS RANGE FROM THE COST OF HEALTH CARE IN THE U.S. TO THE AVAILABILITY OR LACK THEREOF OF CERTAIN MEDICAL PROCEDURES.

HOW SAFE IS GOING TO OTHER COUNTRIES FOR MEDICAL CARE?

JOINING US IS DR. FRANK LOVECCHIO, THE DIRECTOR OF CLINICAL RESEARCH OF ARIZONA'S COLLEGE OF HEALTH SOLUTIONS, GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

TED: THEY CALL IT MEDICAL TOURISM, HOW COMMON IS THIS IDEA?

>> IN STATES LIKE US, IT'S VERY COMMON.

PEOPLE GO ACROSS THE BORDER FOR DENTAL CARE, PLASTIC SURGERY, ORTHOPEDIC SURGERY, IT IS COMMON.

10% OF THE U.S. POPULATION IS UNINSURED.

THINK OF IT THAT WAY.

TED: IS THAT A BIG DEAL, IF YOU DON'T HAVE INSURANCE, THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU?

>> CARDIOVASCULAR TREATMENT, BYPASS USED TO BE BIG, TOTAL HIPS, TOTAL KNEES AND DENTAL INSURANCE.

PLASTIC SURGERY IS ANOTHER THING NOT COVERED BY INSURANCE.

TED: ARE WE SEEING MORE OF THIS OVER THE YEARS?

>> ABSOLUTELY, A TREND UPWARDS.

TED: I SAW CANCER TREATMENT AND ORGAN TRANSPLANTS.

PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO GO ACROSS ANY BORDER TO GET THAT DONE AS WELL?

>> I WORK AT THE COUNTY HOSPITAL IN TOWN, AND WE HAVE PEOPLE WAITING FOR A KIDNEY TRANSPLANT, CAN'T GET IT FOR INSURANCE REASONS OR LATER ON THE LIST AND COME BACK WITH A NEW KIDNEY.

WHERE DID YOU GO?

I PAID FOR IT IN MY COUNTRY OR ANOTHER COUNTRY.

PRETTY DRAMATIC.

YOU HAVE TO BE CAUTIOUS, WE THINK WE'RE THE BEST IN MEDICINE, OTHER COUNTRIES ARE JUST AS GOOD BUT BE CAUTIOUS WHEN YOU HAVE SURGERIES.

YOU REALLY HAVE TO WATCH IN THE TRANSPLANT CASES ESPECIALLY.

TED: MONEY IS A MAJOR FACTOR HERE, CORRECT?

>> PROBABLY THE BIGGEST DRIVER.

TED: WHAT ABOUT PROCEDURES THAT AREN'T NECESSARILY APPROVED IN THE U.S.

BUT ARE BEING DONE IN OTHER COUNTRIES?

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT GET CANCER TREATMENTS.

MANY GO TO MEXICO AND GET MEDICATIONS THAT AREN'T APPROVED HERE.

MANY TIMES A LAST-DITCH EFFORT.

I'M NOT AGAINST IT, A LOT OF COUNTRIES DO HERBAL STUFF.

COUNTRIES MIGHT DO ACCUPUNCER IF THEY GO ACROSS AND TRY.

TED: WAIT TIMES WOULD LIKELY BE LONGER IN OTHER COUNTRIES?

>> CANADIANS WHO HAVE MONEY AND RESOURCES GO TO OTHER COUNTRIES.

THE WAIT TIMES ARE MUCH, MUCH QUICKER.

TED: THERE WAS A RECENT KIDNAPPING, A MAJOR STORY, HOW COMMON IS THAT KIND OF THING?

>> THAT'S EXTREMELY UNCOMMON, AND I THINK YOU HAVE TO BE CAUTIOUS WHEN YOU GO OVER.

IT KIND OF LOOKED LIKE THERE WAS SUSPICION THERE, I THINK YOU HAVE TO RESEARCH IT, GO ACROSS SAFELY.

TED: WHAT ARE SOME OF THE OTHER RISKS, VIOLENT OR OTHERWISE, WHAT ARE THE RISKS HERE?

>> BIG ONES ARE INFECTION.

MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS STERILE.

THE REASON WHY IT COSTS SO MUCH IS YOU OPEN UP A KIT, AND THROWN AWAY AFTER YOU'RE DONE.

YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE DOING THAT ALSO.

MAKE SURE BECAUSE OF THAT, YOU CAN GET HIV, HEPATITIS, BLOOD BORN INFECTIONS, DO THEY GIVE YOU THE RIGHT ANTIBIOTICS BEFORE THE PROCEDURE, THE RIGHT IMMUNOSUPPRESSANTS AFTER THE TRANSPLANT.

INFECTION IS VERY, VERY HIGH.

>> I WOULD IMAGINE, YOU HAVE TO COME HOME.

TRAVEL, IF THERE'S A FOLLOW-UP -- ARE THERE FOLLOW-UPS WITH THE PROCEDURES?

>> THAT'S A JOKE.

WE SEE PATIENTS IN FOLLOW-UP AT THE HOSPITAL.

NOBODY LIKES TO FIX OTHER PEOPLE'S MISTAKES IS ONE OF OUR SAYINGS.

THEY MESSED IT UP OR SOMETHING WENT WRONG, COMPLICATIONS ARE COMMON.

ANY COMPLICATION WE GET IN SURGERY CAN HAPPEN IN OTHER COUNTRIES.

THERE IS NO FOLLOW-UP.

TED: COMMUNICATION ISSUES WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO OTHER COUNTRY.

THAT COULD BE A PROBLEM AS WELL, I WOULD THINK?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I WOULD RECOMMEND IF YOU GO TO BRING SOMEBODY WHO SPEAKS THEIR LANGUAGE AND CHECK IT OUT.

WE HAVE THE JOINT COMMISSION IN THE UNITED STATES THAT SAYS YOU'RE A GOOD HOSPITAL BECAUSE YOU'RE CLEAN AND HAVE THESE STANDARDS.

THEY HAVE A JOINT COMMISSION INTERNATIONAL THAT DOES THE SAME THINGS.

IF YOU DO GO, LOOK INTO SOMETHING APPROVED OUT OF JOINT COMMISSION INTERNATIONAL.

TED: THAT'S YOUR ADVICE, PEOPLE HAVEN'T DONE, IT FRIENDS HAVE DONE, IT IT'S GREAT, WHAT KIND OF ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE?

>> IT'S EASY FOR ME TO SAY NOT TO GO, BUT I THINK THAT'S BAD.

I HAVE PRIVILEGE, I HAVE INSURANCE, I CAN GO TO MY FRIENDS.

IF YOU DO GO, TRY TO GET AS MUCH INFORMATION AS YOU CAN GET.

NOT JUST ONLINE.

TRY TO MAKE SURE IT'S CLEAN, THEY USE STERILE EQUIPMENT, TRY TO MAKE SURE THEY THROW THINGS AWAY AFTER THEY'RE DONE.

I KNOW THEY MIGHT SAY THIS.

BRING AN ADVOCATE WITH YOU.

DO NOT GO ALONE.

FIND OUT WHAT PROCEDURES ARE DONE BEFOREHAND, AFTERHAND, ET CETERA.

I THINK THAT'S SOUND ADVICE.

TED: BOTTOM LINE, OVERALL, DO THE RISKS OUTWEIGH THE BENEFITS, VICE VERSA?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME WHO HAS HEALTH INSURANCE AND MIGHT BE GETTING A TOTAL HIP OR KNEE, I SAY NO.

IF YOU NEED A TOTAL HIP OR KNEE REPLACEMENT, MAKES SENSE.

GIVE THE ANTIBIOTICS BEFOREHAND, YOUR DOCTOR KNOWS YOU'RE GETTING IT, IT'S AN ACCREDITED HOSPITAL, I.E., CLEAN, AND DO IT.

MAKE SURE THE PROSTHESIS IS AN ACCREDITED PROSTHESIS.

TED: DR. FRANK LOVECCHIO, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> MY PLEASURE.

TED: THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.