Funding for New Mexico and focus is provided by viewers like you.

This week on New Mexico in Focus.

Clearing up the confusion about access to COVID vaccines amid federal chaos.

It sounds complicated, but it really shouldn't be.

And I think that should allow pharmacists to just continue to give the vaccine.

And it's National Suicide Prevention Month.

We explore why rates are up in New Mexico and how we can all take part in community care.

New Mexico In Focus starts now.

Thanks for joining us this week.

I'm Nash Jones.

You may have seen some big news out of southern New Mexico last week.

The Dona Ana County Commission voted 4 to 1 to pass a $165 billion bond.

Billion with a B paving the way for a massive air data center slated for Santa Teresa.

The move marked what's being touted as the largest single private investment in state history.

The proposal has been met with plenty of pushback from surrounding communities, with folks concerned about environmental impacts not getting much bang for their buck and more.

And there were big questions surrounding which company would occupy the complex, but those appear to have been answered this week.

Later in the show, we talk with two Albuquerque Journal reporters who've been following the story to better understand the implications.

We're also concerned this week with new state health department data that shows more people died by suicide in New Mexico last year.

Well, warn you now and again later that these conversations are supersensitive.

They involve explicit discussions of suicide.

But we made sure to lift up resources and suggestions for community care throughout as well.

But to start the show, we're going to do our best to clear up the groundswell of confusion around COVID vaccines.

Who can get them where?

And whether insurance covers them with fall.

Beginning this week, a time of year when viruses spread easier and more frequently.

This conversation felt pretty essential to us, particularly given the chaos coming from Washington, D.C.

The FDA and the CDC have taken a hard right turns on vaccines, throwing states for a loop as they try to gear up for folks who want to be immunized.

This week, senior producer Lou DiVizio sits down with the state's chief medical officer to try and wipe the thick layer of film from that picture.

New Mexico's chief medical officer, Dr.

Miranda Durham, thanks so much for being here on New Mexico and focus.

Thanks for having me.

Of course.

Now, last week, a little bit of background here.

The federal advisory panel at the CDC see in charge of vaccines ACIP, as it's known, removed a recommendation that adults under the age of 65 receive the COVID 19 vaccine separately.

Last month, the FDA announced it would limit the new COVID shot to people who are 65 and older or who have other health problems.

So just to be clear for our viewers, that's two separate situations.

Two different policy changes from the feds, the FDA limit and the CDC recommendation.

Now, in response, the FDA's to the FDA's announcement, the New Mexico Department of Health issued a standing order that anyone six months or older be able to receive the COVID vaccine.

Does this latest change from the CDC advisory panel change that at all?

So it doesn't.

So in New Mexico, we have two things, both set of guidelines that the Department of Health issued about, as you said, what the best recommendations are for the vaccine.

So six months and older, essentially, it said anyone could get the vaccine.

And then kind of backing that up is the standing order.

So anyone who is having trouble finding a provider who feels comfortable giving the vaccine, they can just take that prescription and the standing orders, basically just a prescription for anyone who needs it to take to a provider or pharmacist and get the vaccine.

Is is that prescription necessary?

Will pharmacies turn people down if they don't have that?

It shouldn't.

You know, as you point out, it's somewhat complex.

I think the way it stands now, the latest what the ACIP said is they also said everyone six months and older should be able to get the vaccine with shared clinical decision making.

And that shared clinical decision making really just means that you should talk to the provider who is giving you the vaccine.

That could be a nurse, that can be a physician, that can be a pharmacist before you get the vaccine.

And, you know, that's kind of normally what happens when you go for any kind of medical care.

So it it you know, it sounds complicated, but it really shouldn't be.

And I think that should allow pharmacists to just continue to give the vaccine.

But still, some some of the commercial pharmacies do have regulations coming from their corporate and may require of a prescription.

And if that's the case, then everyone in New Mexico has a prescription.

Okay.

States are already pushing back on these federal changes a bit.

We've seen Minnesota defy it, issuing its own recommendation that everyone receive a vaccine for COVID, that is.

And just this morning, as we recorded on Wednesday, the governor's office confirmed to source New Mexico that legislation to allow DOH to set their own recommendations will be on the call for this month's special session.

What would a change in statute allow your department to do that?

It wouldn't otherwise.

Yeah.

So we really can issue our own recommendations even now.

And that is what we did back at the end of August.

So it really what what will change in statute?

The vaccines that we purchased for children is tied to ACIP recommendation.

And so giving us a little more latitude there to to turn to the American Academy of Pediatrics or even to our own our own guidelines, and that that's what it will change.

Okay.

To be clear on the COVID recommendation situation, so is is your department recommending that everyone over six months receive the vaccine or are they just making it available to everyone?

We're both kind of both.

I mean, again, I think we really do want to emphasize that the people at highest risk for COVID are people 65 and over.

So we don't want to lose sight of that.

Is a group making a strong recommendation for and similarly anyone six months and older with underlying medical conditions also a very high risk group for bad outcomes from COVID.

Definitely that group should get vaccinated and then everyone else.

It really there is a lot of individual decision making.

If you've just had COVID, you don't need a COVID shot right away.

You have about three months of immunity.

But, you know, if you're a healthy person, but a teacher and getting bombarded by various viruses in your classroom, you know, you're healthy, but you may really want to get that COVID vaccine just to prevent missed days of work.

So I think there's just a lot of individual decision making that goes on in in who gets COVID vaccine.

Okay.

Now, regardless of any change in state policy coming up in the special session, does the federal guidance create any barriers to acquiring COVID vaccines for this season right now?

So, no, we really have worked hard to make sure that there are none of those barriers.

And, you know, when you talk about vaccine, there's sort of two parts of it.

One is the clinical recommendation.

And that part, the Department of Health was able to issue broad guidelines so that everyone could get vaccinated.

The Board of pharmacy worked so that they could follow the Department of Health guidelines.

And also so pharmacists in the state can give COVID vaccine.

I mean, pharmacies give the vast majority of adult vaccine.

So it's really important that they are able to follow guidelines other than ACIP.

The second part of vaccine access is the payment and whether your insurance will cover it.

And so that also with the current ACIP recommendation, all insurances have to cover COVID vaccine.

So they again the ACIP said six months and old older with shared clinical decision making, but still a positive ACIP recommendation and all insurances therefore have to cover it.

Got it.

But in our state we were also lucky, even before that, that both Medicaid got on board and our office of the Superintendent of Insurance got on board to really push payers to cover COVID vaccine.

Okay.

So individual access won't change as far as the supply of the vaccine within the state.

Is that are there enough shots to give everyone who might want one a shot?

Yeah, I don't anticipate that there'll be any any problem with that.

Okay.

Now you're saying a word should a lot, which I understand there's a lot of uncertainty around this.

Are there any situations that you're foreseeing where what seems clear now could change?

Yeah, I think it's a good point that it's sometimes hard to make it clear throughout an entire state, in every clinical situation.

And so I think that is a that's probably why you're hearing this.

Should one of the things that we do have set up is our call center, our helpline, the Department of Health helpline.

And those nurses are great understanding the landscape.

And really, again, what should be available.

So we are encouraging people.

If you feel stuck on the vaccine, you're getting information that conflicts with what we're saying.

Give them a call.

And, you know, sometimes we can just reach out to the pharmacy to say, hey, are you aware of this standing order?

Here it is.

Or help give you the right language to go to the provider.

But honestly, it I mean, a couple of weeks ago, it was pretty confusing.

I feel like it's gotten away a lot better and people are really understanding that, you know, we do have good vaccine access in the state.

Good.

Glad to hear that.

Now, in terms of these federal changes, does the science support the type of skepticism that we're seeing at the national level right now?

And what is your understanding of the panel's reasoning to remove the recommendation that you skip the COVID recommendation and changes to some of children's vaccines, too?

Yeah, I think the so going back to kind of FDA and ACIP, the FDA did change the, you know, they're the ones that kind of narrowed the the approval to people 65 and over and people six months to 64 years with underlying medical conditions.

They really didn't present any new safety data that would kind of back up that change.

And they also didn't present any new efficacy data, how well it works.

So then we go to the ACIP and again the ACIP really in the end did make an even broader recommendation than the FDA.

They basically said six months to 64 years, you can get the vaccine, sorry, six months and up.

You can get a vaccine just with this shared clinical decision making, which I think they did intend to be a barrier, but I'm not sure really is that big of a barrier.

And so, yeah, I think they were really in a pretty okay place.

Now, this has been widespread national news, state news to obviously do these conversations around vaccines and and the perception, the growing perception, at least at the federal level, that maybe they're not as important as we once thought.

Do you think that that will result in fewer people getting COVID vaccines this season here in New Mexico?

So I think it is true across all of health care that the simpler and more clear the message is, the easier it is for all of us to do whatever it is we're supposed to do.

And so I think it is going to be a big project for us to make sure that the messaging is clear that people aren't facing barriers.

You know, again, walking into a pharmacy where maybe it's not clear whether they can or can't get a vaccine.

And I think the biggest thing for people is, are they going to get stuck with the bill?

I mean, that is a really big incentive.

So, again, I think it's important for everyone to understand that as it stands right now with the current ACIP recommendation, all insurances should cover the COVID vaccine.

Okay.

So if some people start to think maybe they just don't want the headache of dealing with too much talk about this.

I don't need it this year.

Is the state preparing for that possibility?

And what would happen if we have more COVID cases?

Then I guess we would have anticipated having everyone who normally gets the vaccine receiving one.

Yeah, I mean, respiratory virus season is always a little bit unpredictable.

So I think all health care and individuals kind of prepare for it could be a bad flu season or it could be an okay flu season.

And in a similar way, you know, COVID has proven to be fairly unpredictable.

So I think all of us are preparing for all the possibilities.

And again, I think another important point is not losing sight of the other things that we can do to protect ourselves from those respiratory viruses.

One is get your flu shot.

One is get the RSV if you're eligible.

And then just remembering about all the other basic hand hygiene, cover your cough, wear a mask if you're feeling sick so you're not spreading your germs to other people.

And all of those are important.

But yeah, it it we don't know what the winter will bring.

Okay.

Given that uncertainty, is the state health department issuing any guidance to hospitals to prepare for maybe more cases?

I think it's just part of the general preparedness.

You know, it's not something we have to issue guidance on in that hospitals are just they do it every winter.

They get their employees vaccinated to flu.

So I think it's just part of the winter routine or the fall routine going into winter.

Sure.

Now, kind of a philosophical question here.

What is the long term impact of this uncertainty around vaccine policy at the federal level in terms of how people think about vaccines and ultimately decide whether or not to get them, and not just this year, but moving forward if this type of dialog continues?

Yeah, I think there is a lot of noise and it does it it is worrisome.

I think on the positive side, we've had you know, we had a measles outbreak in New Mexico.

One of the best things we all could do is get up to date on measles vaccine.

We had a tremendous response across the state in terms of people hitting that call and getting kids up to date on vaccine and getting themselves up to date on vaccine.

So I hope that some of that, you know, maybe keeping the focus a little bit more on New Mexico and what we can do to keep each other healthy and safe going into the winter, protect our health care providers from being overwhelmed in the winter time that, you know, we do know that these things work and really leaning into that and and trying to screen out some of the the noise coming from the federal level.

Okay.

Dr.

Miranda Durham, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you.

In my talks with open air, they were letting me know that they that this data center in Dona Ana County was going to be a part of this Stargate Project initiative.

And at that point, they hadn't ever.

They hadn't mentioned Project Jupiter.

So I just outright asked them, you know, is this is there a connection here?

This is almost certainly the largest private capital investment in the state's history.

We'll hear from journalists Algernon D'Ammassa and Hannah Garcia on that half a trillion dollars air initiative and Dona Ana County in about 15 minutes.

But first, we mark National Suicide Prevention Month, an issue that far too many of us have a personal connection to.

New data from the Department of Health shows deaths by suicide rose nearly 10% in New Mexico last year.

We asked Clarie Miller, the state's suicide prevention coordinator, about what's behind that increase and where they're seeing the highest risks.

In part one of our conversation, we also dig in to the local resources available for those of you in crisis or who are worried about someone else in your life.

We start from the New Mexico crisis and access 1988 Program Manager Clare Carmony and Director of Community and Stakeholder Relations, Rosella Sanchez.

As you'll learn more about during our conversation, if you or someone you know is considering suicide, please reach out for support by calling or texting the 988 Lifeline.

Thank you all so much for joining us on New Mexico and focus.

Clarie, the Department of Health just came out with some new data regarding suicides and that they increased last year in New Mexico.

Can you tell me what your department found?

So let's look deeper into the data.

So in 2022 to 2023, our rates decreased by 9%, which is significant.

And that's more than the national average reduced by our female suicides went down over 40%.

American Indian Alaska native went down over 40%.

Almost by half.

Yes, Hispanic males went up almost 30%.

In that same 2022 to 2023.

Correct.

Okay.

And that shows the diversity of our cultures and the different ways that we feel comfortable reaching out for help.

Now, we did see the increase in 2024 back up 9%, which was simply to our ten year average.

So we're not it's not that we're doing worse, that it's not that we're doing better.

So we're back to where we were.

Why is there any sense of of why that drop happened, if that's really the outlier?

Right.

Well, there's never going to be one cause for suicide, so there's never one solution.

If we could pinpoint it, that would be a really great day.

However, there's many different aspects that play into it.

And again, culturally, generationally across New Mexico, being able to lean into communities and meet them where they are.

So you mentioned kind of you have some some patterns you're seeing at the population level.

Obviously, these these are all individuals with individual struggles, individual circumstance is.

But you are seeing some of these patterns.

You mentioned women.

You mentioned indigenous people, Hispanic men.

What are some of the other findings that you had at the population level?

So from 2022 to 2023 is when nine, eight, eight rolled out in July of 2022 in New Mexico and across the country.

And I believe that was incredibly impactful in those communities.

We know that it's easier for females to reach out for help and harder for males.

So that shows us something, too.

The rate of suicide in males is four.

It was 6 to 7 times higher in males in 2023.

Okay.

And Rosella, I'd like to explore with both of you as well and kind of more around the why.

Why are we seeing?

Why did we see a downturn?

Why are we now seeing an uptick in suicide deaths?

Well, like I agree with Clarie, you know, I think that it could be so many variables.

You know, people have individual struggles based on their own individual trauma.

Right.

And so I think that, you know, when we could really understand, you know, what are the underlying needs that lead people to depression and anxiety and the different aspects of their circumstances that lead them to wanting to take their lives.

I think we can be better at understanding how to support them from a different, you know, aspect from a different way.

I think that we have an opportunity not to have a cookie cutter approach, but approach people from a trauma informed lens.

What does that mean?

A trauma informed lens means that I'm going to approach you without even guessing or assuming your trauma.

I'm going to approach you with curiosity, with no shame and no judgment.

And I'm going to support you based on the information that you're giving me.

And I'm going to provide a safe space for you to be able to have an open conversation with me.

And I think that's really important when we can stop and pause and take us out.

Take us away from that place of assuming and thinking that we know about someone circumstances and approach them with curiosity.

You mentioned a tailored approach to prevention, maybe even intervention on, Claire.

You manage our statewide nine state crisis line lifeline.

I imagine folks are fairly familiar with it at this point.

It rolled out in 2022 as as that number two dial and that for folks who are still not familiar with how it works.

What what can people expect when they call nine, eight, eight?

What kind of support does nominated offer?

So when people first call us, what we're going to do is we're going to greet them.

We're going to introduce ourselves.

We're going to talk about kind of what to expect on the call.

What is this call going to be like?

We start by asking a few demographic questions, but it's really important for folks to know they can say, I want to stay anonymous.

Then we're going to really get into what led to you calling today, what you know, what happened, that that spark in your brain.

I need some support.

We're going to listen to what's going on for them.

We're going to validate them, give them that in-the-moment support that that folks are needing.

And we're also going to be exploring their safety in that moment.

What's what's going on for them?

What does that look like?

And then I think one of the most important parts of the call is going to be our planning.

So we're going to make a plan about what are you going to do for the next few hours?

What are you going to do for the night, for the day?

And during that time, we're also looking at what other resources might be helpful.

You know, and we can we can refer people to ongoing counseling.

We can look to see if there's a mobile crisis team in their area.

And we can even refer people to things like housing supports, these utility supports.

So we're really looking at what are your needs in this moment and how can we begin to wrap services around around you?

The switch to nine, eight, eight, obviously it is very similar looking to 911.

You mentioned, you know, is there a mobile crisis team in the area?

How is it different from calling 911 if somebody is in crisis?

And what does any kind of arm look like to actually be able to meet up with that person in person?

Yeah.

So we I think the the biggest difference to calling 911 is when you call 911, they know that they're already, you know, likely sending someone that you need that in-person support.

But we're really able to ask more questions, get to know more what's going on, because the vast, vast majority of our calls, we're able to support folks and stabilize on the phone for those who still need an additional support.

That's going to be led, you know, by our conversation with them, we're going to be asking questions.

Do you think it'd be helpful to see someone in this moment if that's available in their area and we can, you know, work together to create that plan of what that that response could potentially look like.

Earlier this summer, in July, on the federal level, the Trump administration did away with the LGBTQ youth services line of nine, eight, eight.

Yeah.

What does that mean for queer and trans young people in New Mexico?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's you know, it's important for New Mexicans to know that when they're calling, they're coming to our local crisis center.

And we do have training to support our staff, ensure that they're providing competent care to every new Mexican.

And we have policies.

We have affirming policies like ensuring that we're using pronouns that folks are using for themselves.

And we do provide a lot of training about, you know, what could potentially be some things that that the LGBTQ community is facing as well as other communities.

It is suicide prevention month here in September.

I imagine a lot of folks think about crisis lines when they think about preventing suicide.

But the New Mexico crisis and access line, Brazil actually has a number of other services as well, including one called a warm line.

I imagine everyone's heard of a hotline.

What is a warm line?

Great question.

Well, a warm line for under New Mexico crisis.

An access line is a call center somewhere, 21988 call center.

However, we have peer to peer support specialists that answer those calls.

And a lot of people don't know what a peer support specialist and basically a peer support specialist is.

Someone with lived experience, someone who has gone through recovery, someone who has navigated the mental behavioral health system and is doing well and is able to share their experiences and share their story as they help others, as they help up here.

So here in New Mexico, we have peer support specialists.

We have family peer support specialists, as well as youth peer support specialists.

They're all certified.

They go through 40 hours of training.

They sit for an exam and they become certified.

So when you call, you're going to be speaking to somebody with lived experience, someone that understands you.

And I answer them please.

When you're a caregiver or a family member of someone that's been struggling with their mental health, it can be extremely isolating.

And those people really need support.

I mean, when someone has cancer, we build meal trains, we clean their homes, we buy groceries.

But when it comes to mental health, it's not treated the same way due to the stigma.

And the warm line is a great resource for that.

You also have this app called and then Connect.

And not only does it have crisis support, but it also has some wellness tools.

What can those include?

Oh, wow.

The new Connect app is three smart meters in the palm of your hand.

You can click on an activity and and you could actually track your moods and you can track, you know, the activities that correlate with your mood.

So maybe you're really feeling, you know, excited and happy.

You can look at, okay, what, what?

What was I doing at 10:00 in the morning?

Oh, I went for a walk.

Well, I need to start walking more often because I really like the way I feel, you know?

Or I'm feeling pretty sad or anxious and overwhelmed.

Well, what are some of the things that you can do to boost your spirit?

So there's some recommendations in there.

There's also, you know, the click of a button.

You can have access to a couple of webinars, a few webinars, actually on anxiety and depression and learn about the anxiety of a loved one or learn about coping skills.

There's a Zen room, teach you how to breathe and how to calm down.

So.

Right, I mentioned it kind of in this day and age, folks are understandably concerned about privacy online, and especially with how stigmatized the topic of suicide is really even just seeking mental health support.

How does an NM connect protect people's privacy?

How can somebody feel confident that I'm going to use this and and nobody needs to know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we only collect data about the amount of people who log.

And so we're just presenting, you know, those just aggregated kind of information about how many folks are using the app, other than that, we don't access any of the data or not.

We don't have any mechanism to.

And, you know, kind of as you're speaking about people being concerned because that's something that comes up a lot.

I do want to mention, you know, one of the great things about the app is it's really private.

It's on your phone and, you know, you're able to log in and do things without anyone knowing.

And people can also chat and text nine, eight, eight.

So we've found that a lot of people are are talking to us while they're doing other activities, while they're parenting, while they're in class, while they're at work.

You know, you don't have to step away for a call if you don't have privacy.

You're able to just text or chat on your phone.

Clarie, are there other state resources through the Department of Health, in addition to what crisis an access line is offering that you'd like to lift up?

Yes.

And so much of suicide prevention needs to begin in the community with conversations and normalizing mental health.

So we fund gatekeeper training through ABC Partners across the state.

So that is fully funded.

We train people to train in their communities so that it's sustainable and evidence based.

And that's another thing we did in 2022 to 2023.

We had gatekeeper trainings in every single county.

And what are these gatekeepers doing?

So it teaches people how to talk about suicide, how to ask the question.

The most important thing is that we're using honest, direct, straightforward language, such as, Are you thinking of killing yourself?

And it teaches people how to ask that really, really hard question, especially when it's somebody close to you.

It also shows what signs to look for in different stages of life.

And there is no stage in one's lifetime where suicide isn't an option.

And we need to acknowledge that.

I appreciate that very much, and I'm actually going to ask you all to stick around so that we can help our viewers understand what those warning signs are.

How do you approach what can be an emotional and difficult topic to talk about?

So maybe you all can can give people some tips.

All right.

Thank you so much.

Stay with us for part two of our conversation on suicide prevention in about 15 minutes.

The small southern New Mexico town of Santa Teresa is perhaps best known as a border crossing, but now it is set to be a major stage for the global air race.

That's because the Dona Ana County Commission recently approved a largest of its kind bond to support a massive air data center.

The $165 billion industrial revenue bond is meant to help finance what's been nicknamed Project Jupiter.

There's been community concern over water use and transparency surrounding the project.

In a rowdy commission meeting sealed the deal.

And now Jupiter is slated to be a part of the Trump administration's $500 billion Stargate Project.

To help us understand the implications of this unprecedented private investment in New Mexico, executive producer Jeff Proctor sits down with Algernon D'Ammassa and Hannah Garcia to Albuquerque Journal, reporters who've been following the story.

Hannah, welcome to New Mexico and Focus.

And Algernon, welcome back.

It's nice to see you.

I would wager that many of the people watching this program are familiar with the phrase project Jupiter.

I would wager that fewer than half of them actually know what it is.

We will get to some of the financing and fighting a bit later.

But Hannah, can you start by giving viewers a little snapshot of what this thing is like mechanically and physically?

What is it?

Yes.

So Project Jupiter, nicknamed Project Jupiter, is a data center campus and doing it on a county that is going to be spanning 1400 acres and it will be built with four buildings.

And we knew about it for a while.

Algernon here did extensive coverage on it as it was going through commissioners and things like that.

For the longest time that we didn't know exactly who was going to be there.

And so now, you know, we've kind of put the pieces together where Oracle Cloud infrastructure is going to be leasing that center for 18 years and open air is going to be their primary customer.

It's slated for Santa Teresa.

Algernon, how did that little spot?

Probably best known for most folks as a border crossing.

How did it get on the radar and get selected for this project?

This is some unused land very close to the industrial park.

And so it's a very attractive place for a large industrial investment because it's it is close to the border.

It's close to one of the busiest ports of entry in the United States.

It's near a lot of logistical infrastructure, rail, highway.

There's there's an airport not far from there.

And so for a lot of those reasons, it's a very attractive place to build something really big, like a manufacturing facility or a data center facility.

There are no homes immediately around it, although it is within a few miles of schools and residences.

But County sees this as an opportunity to generate some revenue and some economic development on a property that right now is unused and not doing much of anything.

And I think that for the developers, they saw this as a very attractive place for a large data center, complex.

It's an office complex, as well as its proximity to a major location of international trade.

I suppose that makes sense and sort of based on the size of this, as Hannah was just describing, it would take some government doing to actually make a project like this happen.

The Dona Ana County Commission took a vote last week to move this idea along.

How did that vote go, Algernon?

And I guess the question is what exactly did they approve?

What did they vote on?

Right.

So the actual vote was on an industrial revenue bond with a rather eye watering figure of $165 billion Billion with a B, that's billion with a buyback.

And the idea is that that is a figure that represents the upper threshold of what they anticipate investing in this private capital investment over 30 years.

This is not a general obligation bond.

The county is not borrowing money.

It is not loaning that money.

It is not on the hook for that expense at all.

The way this works is and we've seen a lot of these industrial revenue bonds to foster industry or development, the county basically will hold the title to the property and the equipment that is built as part of this development.

And then what they're doing is they're leasing it back to the developer.

And so the developer, through an agreement that underwrites the bond, is making payments instead of taxes.

So they're getting a huge break on property taxes.

And in a separate ordinance, they're actually also getting some relief from gross receipts taxes as well.

And in exchange for that, they are making some direct payments to the county, which the county can then use for emergency services education.

The developer has also made some additional commitments to invest specifically in water infrastructure because Santa Teresa, as badly as it needs jobs in economic development, also desperately needs water infrastructure.

And so the developers come through with some promises to, do that as well as some pledges that are not yet in a binding agreement to make some other community investments as well.

But overall, what they do is that by protecting themselves from these taxes, that's how they're able to finance much of the capital to build this thing.

Algernon I think that might be one of the most in English explanations for what an industrial revenue bond is that I've ever heard.

Thank you for doing.

I've had a lot of practice in the last three weeks.

Indeed you have.

Now, there was some ambiguity around tenancy around who was actually going to be moving into this data center.

It was sort of one of the other big questions I had as I was following along with Algernon is coverage.

The story took a little bit of a turn this week.

You guys had a story that published in the Journal yesterday afternoon, at least on the website.

What did you report and what do we know now about tenancy for this big building?

Yeah, so Oracle Cloud infrastructure is going to be leasing that building or that campus for the next 18 years, and Openai is going to be their primary customer kind of getting information and such from that data center.

We also found out that that it's part of a larger kind of initiative of a 500 $500 Billion initiative from the White House that was announced in with a bunch of tech executives, specifically from Openai and Oracle.

And at that point, they didn't really know where it was going to be.

I think it was still very kind of, you know, hush hush.

And they didn't really want to say much.

But in my talks with Openai, they were letting me know that they that this data center in Denver on a county was going to be a part of this Stargate Project initiative.

And at that point, they hadn't ever they hadn't mentioned Project Jupiter.

So I just outright asked them, you know, is this is there a connection here?

The names, I feel are pretty, you know, telling.

But yeah, so that just kind of really made that connection for us.

I want to just return a little bit to help viewers kind of understand the size and scope, not just of the physical space, but also of the investment.

Algernon I loved and one of your stories that you tried to help your readers understand that this would be roughly the size of the massive Valley Mall in Las Cruces.

Can you help us understand a little bit about the not just the size of the physical space, but the size of the investment?

Have we seen anything like this in New Mexico before?

No.

I mean, this is this is almost certainly the largest private capital investment in the state's history.

A lot of this sort of staggering the staggering dollar figure has a lot to do with the technology.

You think about, for instance, there is the enormous investment involved in building a essentially a power plant, a micro-grid power facility that will eventually the developers say power the whole complex autonomously.

You also have the construction of four data centers as well as some manufacturing resources and an office building.

And then you have the actual technology that goes into the computing power that the data centers have to provide for the A.I.

training that's going to be going on there.

That involves chip technology that is fabulously expensive.

And that really accounts, the developers say, for most of that staggering $165 billion figure over 30 years.

And so they tried to to analogize it for the community so they could try to visualize it as being representative of the footprint would be similar to a good sized shopping mall, including all of its parking facilities.

It's Not so much.

The footprint that the community wanted to ask about is more what's going on underneath it in terms of where is the water being sourced, how much water does it need?

You have to cool the center.

You need water to power natural gas, which is going to be powering this facility at least initially for a period of time.

And then also how much sheer power is going to be needed and how are you going to produce it?

I want to go back to that county commission vote that you were in the room for last week.

And I want to read the second paragraph of your dispatch from that county commission meeting.

Here is what you wrote.

As soon as the ordinance authorizing the bond passed on a 4 to 1 vote, the room erupted in anger that had been brewing for 7 hours.

Put us in the room and tell us why it had been brewing.

So in the lead up to this, there had been about three weeks of public debate.

Much of the community really only became aware of this project at the end of August when the commissioners agreed to hear this ordinance.

The industrial revenue bond is treated like an ordinance.

So there's actually two votes.

There's the vote to say, yes, we're going to hear this ordinance, and then they actually have the final ordinance vote in a hearing.

And so this gave the community about three weeks to try to assemble what information they could.

The developers hosted five town halls in various parts of the county.

Those meetings were a little chaotic.

People learned that there were not answers to a lot of their questions, either because things were being protected as trade secrets or had been negotiated under nondisclosure agreements with government entities, which was a little novel for people to hear.

Or also, in some cases, the questions didn't have answers because developers said, Well, we haven't done the engineering on that yet.

And that was a little surprising for folks.

And it sort of set up this question of how do you participate meaningfully in a process where there's not a lot of information about the project?

Is this project even ready?

Why is this the deadline?

Why do we have to have the do or die deadline now?

So there were, for instance, motions to delay the vote, postpone it by one of the commissioners.

The city of Sunland Park, their city council, had actually passed a resolution asking for a little more time to just assess this.

If it's successful, what are the regional developments?

This is a this is a development that could reshape the economy for the El Paso, Las Cruces and Juarez region.

So why not study that if there are so many unanswered questions?

But the developer said that basically if you postpone it, it's like voting no.

And so community members didn't like this.

This is a region of the state that has been hit hard with problems with water.

This is a community that was drinking arsenic for a while because their utility had a arsenic treatment plant down and didn't get around to telling the community about it for a while.

There have been problems with pollution of the air and of water resources in this community before.

And so there was a lot of pain and a lot of trust.

And so then it comes down to this seven hour marathon hearing, and that was conducted under strict rules about decorum.

People could be removed if they waved signs around, things like that.

And so it just built.

And then when they finally took this vote with, you know, with only one commissioner dissenting, and that was not even a rejection of the project so much as county commissioner Susana Schapiro saying this process is not democratic.

This has not been representative of our community.

It has not done a service to our constituents.

I want more time.

And therefore she voted no.

So it was a 4 to 1 vote.

And then as soon as that was confirmed, yes, the room just erupted with a kind of pent up rage over the course of the day, and it disrupted the proceedings for a little while until that could be contained.

There was a few minutes of protest, some chanting, and then that calmed down and they moved on to one further vote, which was further tax incentives to help support the project.

Gotcha.

That sounds like my kind of county commission meeting.

Notably, we are having this conversation without discussing sort of the concerns and dangers of AI itself.

I think that's a chat for another time, and I'd love to have you both back to do that.

But despite those community concerns, Hannah, this thing has support from elected officials around the state, obviously, including for members of the Dona Ana County Commission and also Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham, kind of succinctly, what is the case for this?

Is it purely economic development?

Yeah, I think that's a lot of it.

You know, the companies are promising thousands of jobs, both in construction.

And once it becomes operational as well as, you know, it's estimating that it'll give back like over $380 million to donate on a county annually.

And kind of also to Calderon's point about the water, you know, the companies have also committed $50 million to the county's water systems.

I believe that they're also planning to use a kind of closed loop water system to help cool down the data center so they won't have to.

So they can pretty much recycle the water and hopefully not have to take as much.

And they've also, you know, committed almost $7 million to community investments in the county as well.

Algernon, what's next?

What happens next to this project?

Well, the bond has to be closed.

And at that point, we'll actually learn some more detail that we couldn't about what the binding agreements are versus pledges.

They hope to break ground before the end of this year.

It's September.

I think that might be a hard deadline to keep.

They have to worry about.

Right.

I mean, you know, it's it's almost October.

And so they still have to apply for some construction permits and they have to actually get this project going.

So I don't know.

Plus any assessments they need to do, any environmental assessments that they have to do have to get underway.

So I don't know if it's going to happen by the end of the year, but they want to move very fast.

Construction is going to take a while.

It's going to take years.

And they want to they want to get it going as soon as they can.

Thank you to Algernon de Mesa and Hannah Garcia of the Albuquerque Journal for sharing their reporting with us.

We now continue our conversation here during National Suicide Prevention Month with experts from the State Department of Health in New Mexico crisis and access line.

And again, if you or someone you know is considering suicide, please reach out for support by calling or texting the 988 lifeline.

Earlier, we discussed the professional and peer led resources available to New Mexicans in crisis.

Now we turn our attention to what you and all of us can do to support those we know and love and be a part of stemming the rising suicides in our community.

Claire Clary, thank you so much for coming back to the table.

I'd like us to spend some time talking about ways that our viewers can be a part of this.

Claire, you said in a statement recently that suicide is preventable, but it requires all of us to act.

So with that in mind, let's discuss ways that all of us, not just the experts, can be a part of prevention.

The biggest thing I'm always asked is what is the biggest sign?

What is the biggest thing we can look for?

It's when they tell you that they're thinking about suicide.

It's never attention seeking behavior.

If someone says they want to die by suicide, 100 times, we believe them every single time.

What are some of the other you know, that one may definitely stand out to somebody.

Sometimes be more subtle.

Of course, giving away prized possessions, changes in behavior, and withdrawing from activities that they once enjoyed.

And that can be at every age.

And this isn't something that we need to go in and and fix them or diagnose them or treat them.

Gatekeeper trainings.

And when you're helping someone through a crisis, you're bringing them hope.

You're letting them know they're not in this alone.

We can get through anything together.

And think of it like CPR.

Most of us are familiar with CPR.

We thought, I need to get CPR.

Now.

We're not thinking because then I'm going to do heart surgery and I'm going to save this person.

No, we are keeping them alive until we can get them in front of a medical professional.

Okay.

And now, as you said, like if you notice those signs.

How do you how do you act?

What do you do?

Rosella, do you want to speak to how somebody can take that next step once they notice some of the signs that Clary's.

Absolutely.

I think just like Clary mentioned, asking those questions from Curiosity, providing a safe space.

I think that's really important.

I think that's what's going to break the stigma of folks seeking mental health services in general is when they can take that baby step and there's someone there's a who in their life that they feel safe to be able to explore their circumstances and what's out there.

I think doing something with someone is extremely important so that they know they're not alone.

I'll pick up the phone with you.

Let's call together.

Let's go together.

That's really important.

And I think when people can can realize that it's okay to ask those questions and it's okay to be curious.

However, I think it's really important to really make sure that you're not judging and that there's no there's no shame and there's no assumptions.

I think that's really important.

I think when we can go to somebody and say, I see you and I hear you now, let's do this together because you're not alone.

I'd imagine some of our viewers may be concerned that if they were to ask somebody if they're considering suicide, that that might put that idea in that person's head.

Is that a legitimate fear?

That's not true at all, that when you ask somebody, are you going to take your life?

Are you thinking about taking your life?

What it does, it pauses for a moment and it gives them an opportunity to have a deep conversation about what's truly going on and those underlying issues, those underlying needs that are getting in the way of asking for help and asking for support.

You mentioned holding someone's hand saying Let's let's do this together.

Claire, I want ask you, since you managed the 98 lifeline, when I'm done reporting on suicide over the years, I will often make sure folks are familiar with the lifeline after they've heard a story relating to suicide.

I'll say something like If you or someone you know is considering suicide, dial nine, eight, eight.

Let's talk about the somebody, you know, piece.

Yeah, because I'm not sure everyone knows that they don't have to be the one in crisis to call nine, eight, eight.

What would it be like for a helper to call?

We often get folks calling together and we're happy to take those calls.

It's a I think that's a great way to get someone who might be a little bit apprehensive to to make that step.

And we also get folks who are calling who are watching a loved one struggle, which is an incredibly painful experience.

And we can do two things on those calls.

First, we can support the person, right?

Because caring for someone and watching someone you love, struggle is is isolating.

It's incredibly painful.

So we want to support that person and make sure that they're taking care of themselves as well.

But we can also advise them on steps they can make things to look out for and how to ensure that they're staying connected to that person.

They're continuing to support them.

And so that's so I always want want folks to know that they're not alone.

And you're not expected to be an expert.

That's why you can call us.

And and certainly one of the things that we've also been trying to to make sure where we're communicating is that you don't have to be in an acute suicidal crisis for to call nine, eight, eight.

We're never going to, you know, tell someone that they shouldn't call.

There's No.

There's no, like a benchmark that you need to hit to say, oh, it's time to call now.

You can call at any time, even if you just want someone to talk to, even if you're feeling, you know, not quite yourself.

And so we want folks to call anytime, regardless of, you know, if they're they're having thoughts of suicide.

You know, it's it often can be a preventative factor to call in early to get that support.

Whenever you're starting to struggle.

Any other tips for for just your average person who is concerned about someone in their life to be a part of suicide.

Prevention in New Mexico, over 60% of our suicides involve firearms.

Reducing access to lethal means is a huge component.

If you know someone is in crisis or that even if they're starting to struggle.

Reducing access to lethal means can reduce the likelihood of suicide.

And our office provides free gun locks to anyone that would like them.

Okay, Clarie.

Thank you, Rosella.

Claire, I really appreciate your time.

Thank you so much.

For having us.

Thanks to Clarie Miller, Rosella Sanchez and Claire Carmody and everyone else who contributed to the show.

Looking ahead to next week, the New Mexico legislature is set to gavel in a special session ahead of its annual January convening.

Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham is calling the lawmakers to Santa Fe beginning Wednesday, primarily to steal the state against federal budget cuts to safety net programs.

The governor says she and the Democratic majority in both the House and Senate are resolved to, quote, do everything possible to protect essential services and minimize the damage from President Trump's disastrous bill, referring, of course, to the big GOP tax and spending plan signed into law in July.

Health care will be a biggie, according to the governor and legislative leaders.

That'll include efforts to make health insurance more affordable for those set to lose Medicaid coverage or otherwise see higher co-pays and premiums.

Trump's big bill cuts nearly $1,000,000,000,000 from Medicaid over the next decade.

It's also possible congressional Republicans will let a tax credit for Obamacare coverage lapse, making marketplace plans even pricier.

Meanwhile, source New Mexico reports vaccine policy will also make an appearance following recent federal changes to COVID shot recommendations and the childhood vaccine schedule.

Lawmakers are also expected to boost funding for the health care authority and rural health care delivery fund.

Moving on, the legislature is set to invest more in food assistance.

New Mexico has the highest reliance on SNAP or food stamps of any state, and the program is set to lose nearly $190 billion in federal funding over the next ten years.

In a statement, Democratic Speaker of the House Javier Martinez told the nearly 20% of New Mexicans on SNAP that the state is, quote, not going to allow Trump and the radical right to take food off your table.

Finally, we add New Mexico PBS and more than a dozen other public media stations across the state also stand to get a state funding boost at the special session after Congress clawed back more than $1,000,000,000 from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting cuts that are set to hit October 1st.

The governor added public radio and TV funding to the agenda.

Lawmakers in the Republican minority have called for the session to address juvenile crime in the state's doctor shortage, among other issues, though, it doesn't appear that's going to happen.

Additionally, the governor has been urging lawmakers to tackle interstate medical compacts.

But Senate Majority Leader Peter Wirth said in a statement this week that he's opposed to addressing the complex issue in the special session, adding that lawmakers need more time to sort it out.

It's unclear how long the session will last.

Estimates so far range from a day to maybe a couple.

Tune in next week.

We will bring you to the round house for an update here on New Mexico.

In Focus for New Mexico, PBS's I'm Nash Jones.

Until next week, stay focused.

Funding for New Mexico and focus is provided by viewers like you.