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♪ >>> HI, EVERYBODY, WELCOME TO "CHAT BOX," I'M DAVID CRUZ.

ALTHOUGH BLACK HISTORY IS AMERICAN HISTORY, WE DO SET ASIDE THE MONTH OF FEBRUARY TO MARK THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF BLACK PEOPLE TO THIS COUNTRY, BUT HOW WE TALK ABOUT AND TEACH BLACK HISTORY, WHO TEACHES IT AND HOW, CONTINUES TO EVOLVE.

WE'RE GOING TO BE JOINED IN A FEW MINUTES BY RUTGERS UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT JONATHAN HOLLOWAY TO TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT.

WE START TODAY WITH A STARTLING STATISTIC FROM THE LABOR DEPARTMENT IN DECEMBER.

IT SAID THE U.S. LOST 140,000 JOBS IN THAT MONTH.

TERRIBLE NEWS ON ITS OWN, BUT MORE DRAMATIC WAS THE FACT THAT 100% OF THOSE JOBS, ALL OF THEM, WERE ONCE HELD BY WOMEN.

MEN GAINED 15,000 JOBS DURING THE SAME PERIOD, BUT 100% OF THOSE WHO LOST THEIR JOBS WERE WOMEN.

I'M GOING TO LET THAT SINK IN WITH YOU WHILE I INTRODUCE OUR GUESTS.

SUE ALTMAN IS STATE DIRECTOR FOR NJ WORKING FAMILIES.

ANA MARIA IS A PARTNER AT SAUL, EWING, AND PRESIDENT OF EXECUTIVE WOMEN OF NUEW JERSEY, AND BILL ROGERS IS AN ECONOMIST AND PROFESSOR OF PUBLIC POLICY AT RUTGERS UNIVERSITY.

WELCOME, PANEL.

BILL ROGERS, 100% OF LABOR LOSSES IN DECEMBER, WOMEN.

IT SHOULD BE SHOCKING, BUT IS IT NOT SURPRISING?

WHAT'S THE TAKEAWAY FROM THAT NUMBER?

>> WELL, IT'S NOT SURPRISING AT ALL, BECAUSE THE ECONOMY HAD BEEN SLOWING DOWN IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS OF 2020, AND THE OTHER REASON WHY IT'S NOT A SURPRISE IS THAT WE LOST BASICALLY 22.3 MILLION JOBS IN APRIL OF LAST YEAR WHEN THE ECONOMIES WERE REALLY SHUT DOWN, AND OVER HALF OF THOSE JOB LOSSES WERE LOST BY WOMEN.

AND YOU KNOW, THIS -- SO, TYPICALLY I WOULD SAY ONE MONTH OF DATA DOESN'T MAKE A TREND, BUT THESE DEPARTURES, THESE LOSSES HAVE BEEN SEEN PRIOR TO THAT, AND THE REASON WHY IS THAT MANY OF THESE JOBS THAT WERE SHUT DOWN WERE SHUT DOWN BECAUSE OF COVID, SUCH AS LEISURE AND HOSPITALITY, RETAIL TRADE, AND THE LIKE, AND SO -- AND WOMEN COMPRISE THE LARGEST SHARE OF EMPLOYEES IN THOSE INDUSTRIES.

>> SUE, SO MANY WORKING FAMILIES HEADED BY WOMEN, SO MANY DEALING WITH THE COMORBIDITIES OF A LACK OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING, DEFICIENT PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, ET CETERA.

WHAT ARE YOU SEEING OUT THERE?

WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES?

>> YEAH, I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP, DAVID.

ECONOMIC ISSUES AND WOMEN ISSUES, FEMALE ISSUES, ARE ONE AND THE SAME, AND AS OUR COLLEAGUES HAVE POINTED OUT, THE EFFECT ON THE PANDEMIC HAS BEEN THE WORST FELT BY WOMEN BUT PARTICULARLY WOMEN OF COLOR AND LATINAS.

THE JOBS THAT HAVE BEEN LOST DURING THIS PANDEMIC HAVE BEEN JOBS THAT THOSE WOMEN OCCUPY.

AND THAT'S A BIG PROBLEM, BECAUSE YOU COMBINE THAT WITH HEALTHCARE PROBLEMS, HEALTHCARE PRESSURES, HOUSING PRESSURES, REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS PRESSURES, CHILD CARE PRESSURES, IT'S A TOXIC STEW OF STRESSORS AND ISSUES AND WE HAVE TO TAKE STEPS RIGHT NOW TO ENSURE THAT DOESN'T -- THIS DOESN'T HOLD WOMEN, PARTICULARLY WOMEN OF COLOR BACK FOR A GENERATION.

>> ALL OF THESE ARE WHAT YOU MIGHT CALL PREEXISTING CONDITIONS, RIGHT?

I MEAN, JUST THE PANDEMIC, AS IT HAS WITH SO MANY THINGS, JUST LAID THOSE CONDITIONS BARE, NO?

>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

THESE ARE THE ILLS OF OUR SOCIETY THAT WE HAVEN'T DEALT WITH FOR GENERATIONS, SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME.

THESE INEQUITIES HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THERE.

AND AS A RESULT, A PANDEMIC, WHICH REALLY STRESSES OUR ENTIRE SOCIETY, IS GOING TO SHOW THE BREAKING POINT AT THE PARTS THAT HAVE BEEN UNDERINVESTED AND UNDERREPRESENTED IN OUR SOCIETY.

AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO -- GOVERNMENT HAS TO TAKE STEPS TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE ARE NOT LONG-TERM LOSSES.

>> ANA TEJADA, YOU'RE -- GO AHEAD, BILL.

>> SURE.

IT'S GOVERNMENT BUT IT'S ALSO THE PRIVATE SECTOR THAT THE PRIVATE SECTOR COMPANIES, PARTICULARLY OUR FORTUNE 500s, THOSE ANCHOR INSTITUTIONS IN OUR STATE AND THE NATION, THEY NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT, YOU KNOW, PRODUCTIVITY IS LINKED TO WORKERS' AS FAST AS AND WORKERS' SAFETY AND WORKERS' HEALTH AND CHILD CARE IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THAT.

PRIOR TO THE PANDEMIC, THIS WAS ALREADY AN ISSUE.

THE UNITED WAY OF NEW JERSEY, THEY CREATED THIS CONCEPT CALLED A.L.I.C.E.

AND IT'S BASICALLY A 38% OF HOUSEHOLDS HERE IN NEW JERSEY THAT ARE AT OR BELOW THEIR LIVING WAGE OR THEIR SUSTAINABLE INCOME, BUT MOST IMPORTANT, WHAT HAPPENED WAS WE HAD WHAT WE WERE TOLD WAS THIS GREAT EXPANSION OF ECONOMIC EXPANSION AND ACTIVITY, BUT ACTUALLY, WHAT HAPPENED WAS WE SAW THE SHARE OF A.L.I.C.E.

HOUSEHOLDS IN NEW JERSEY RISE.

THE REASONS WHY WERE IT WAS STAGNATING WAGES, PARTICULARLY IN INDUSTRIES THAT -- WHERE WOMEN ARE HIGHLY EMPLOYED.

THERE'S ALSO CHILD CARE COSTS.

WE SAW DRAMATIC INCREASES IN CHILD CARE COSTS THAT PUT FAMILIES, THESE A.L.I.C.E.

FAMILIES, IN JEOPARDY.

>> ANA TEJADA, YOU'RE A WORKING MOM.

LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE WORKING FROM HOME AND UNLUCKY ENOUGH TO BE WORKING FROM HOME.

SO A 4-YEAR-OLD AND A 14-YEAR-OLD AND LET THE JOY BEGIN, RIGHT?

I MEAN, YOU WORK WITH EMPLOYERS.

IS THERE A LEARNING CURVE UNDER WAY OR SHOULD THERE BE A LEARNING CURVE UNDER WAY IN CORPORATE AMERICA ABOUT THE HUMAN RESOURCES AND PARTICULARLY THEIR HUMAN RESOURCES WHO HAPPEN TO BE FEMALE AND MAYBE HEADING UP A HOUSEHOLD?

>> YEAH, SO, LOOK, I THINK EVERYONE HAS ADDRESSED WHAT IS HAPPENING WHICH IS YOU'RE COMPOUNDING A LOT OF SYSTEMIC INEQUITIES WITH PANDEMIC AND THAT'S JUST A PERFECT WHIRLWIND FOR WHAT YOU'RE SEEING NOW.

WHAT I'M COMFORTED WITH IS IN MY 20 YEARS OF PRACTICING LAW, WITH THIS PANDEMIC A LOT OF THE CLIENTS THAT I REPRESENT, WHICH INCLUDES SMALL BUSINESSES UP INTO CORPORATIONS, THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING, AND THEY UNDERSTAND THAT THEY HAVE TO BE FLEXIBLE WITH THEIR EMPLOYEES, SO A LOT OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING IS WORKING WITH THEM AND FIGURING OUT WHAT ACCOMMODATIONS ARE APPROPRIATE SO THAT THEIR EMPLOYEES ARE FUNCTIONAL AND THAT THEIR EMPLOYEES ARE HAPPY, CONSIDERING THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH, RIGHT?

AND LOOK, YOU SAID IT, AS A WORKING MOTHER, YOU KNOW, IT'S A HIGHLY IMPOSSIBLE SOMETIMES.

SOME DAYS, IT'S HARDER THAN OTHERS.

IT IS COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE, DAVID, TO BE A FULL-TIME STAY-AT-HOME MOM AND A FULL-TIME PROFESSIONAL.

IT JUST IS.

AND BECAUSE OF THOSE EXPERIENCES THAT I'M PERSONALLY, YOU KNOW, DEALING WITH, AS A MOTHER OF THREE, AND USUALLY WHEN YOU HAVE SMALLER KIDS, IT'S A LITTLE HARDER, YOU HAVE TO FIND DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET YOUR WORK DONE.

BUT I THINK THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT CORPORATIONS AND EMPLOYERS UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING, AND THEY'RE TRYING TO WORK WITH THEIR EMPLOYEES.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE BIGGEST ASSET FOR ANY COMPANY OR CORPORATION ARE YOUR EMPLOYEES, AND SO YOU HAVE TO WORK WITH THEM AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE THIS BETTER.

>> SUE, YOU SAID GOVERNMENT HAS A ROLE TO PLAY HERE.

YOU HAD A HOSTILE FEDERAL ADMINISTRATION FOR THE PAST FOUR YEARS.

IS THERE ANY SENSE THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S DIFFERENT VIEWPOINT OR PHILOSOPHY IS GOING TO TRANSLATE INTO POLICY THAT CAN HELP?

AND LIKE WHEN DO THEY NEED TO GET STARTED ON THAT?

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, LIKE YESTERDAY.

I THINK THERE'S BOTH A STATE LEVEL SOLUTION AND A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT LEVEL SOLUTION.

SO, A LOT OF THAT STIMULUS MONEY, I HOPE, I HOPE, I HOPE WILL BE COMING THROUGH BEFORE THE MARCH RECESS.

AND I THINK THAT WILL BE A BIG HELP TO A LOT OF FAMILIES.

AT THE STATE LEVEL, WE HAVE A COUPLE OF BILLS SITTING THERE THAT SHOULD GET OUR ATTENTION, THE PEOPLE'S BILL, WHICH IS ASSEMBLYWOMAN TIMBERLAKE'S BILL ON HOUSING AND EVICTION PREVENTION IS A BIG ONE.

THE LAST THING WE WANT IS A HOMELESSNESS CRISIS TO BE THE PUNCTUATION MARK AT THE END OF THIS PANDEMIC.

IN ADDITION, BOTH OF MY COLLEAGUES HAVE TALKED ABOUT HOW WORKERS ARE AN ASSET TO A PRIVATE CORPORATION AND THAT'S ENTIRELY TRUE.

AND CERTAINLY WITHIN THE ECONOMY THAT'S DEFINITELY TRUE.

THE FOLKS I'M WORRIED ABOUT, THOUGH, ARE PEOPLE WHO WORK LOW-WAGE JOBS AND PEOPLE WHO MAYBE DON'T HAVE AS MUCH BUYING POWER AS AN ASSET THEMSELVES AND NEED TO RELY ON THEIR UNION AND IT'S DISTURBING TREND TO SEE UNIONIZATION GOING DOWN ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND SO I THINK MAKING IT -- MAKING SURE THAT WE OFFER GOOD UNION JOBS TO PEOPLE WHO WANT THEM, THAT'S A GREAT PATHWAY TO THE MIDDLE CLASS.

AND HERE IN NEW JERSEY, PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION TO PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS, BOTH TEACHERS AND PUBLIC SECTOR WORKERS WHO EMPLOY MAJORITY WOMEN, MAJORITY BLACK AND BROWN WOMEN, AND THAT GIVES THEM A GATEWAY TO THE MIDDLE CLASS.

IT'S HEALTHCARE, IT'S PENSIONS, SO ALL THESE THINGS COME TOGETHER TO BE A GENDER THING, A RACE THING, AN ETHNICITY THING AND ECONOMIC THING.

LIKE MY COLLEAGUES HAVE SAID, YOU CAN'T DISSOCIATE THEM.

SO I HOPE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TAKES ACTION BUT THAT DOESN'T LEAVE NEW JERSEY OFF THE HOOK.

>> ANA TEJADA, WE KEEP HEARING ABOUT HOW THE WORKPLACE HAS CHANGED FOREVER AND HOW A THIRD OF REMOTE WORKERS ARE NEVER COMING BACK TO THE OFFICE.

WHAT'S THE POTENTIAL IMPACT OF THAT CULTURAL SHIFT ON WOMEN, AND HOW DOES IT CHANGE THE DYNAMIC EVEN AT WORK?

BECAUSE WOMEN CAN ALREADY BE INVISIBLE IN A LOT OF WORKPLACES.

>> SO, I THINK THAT'S A GREAT POINT, DAVID.

LOOK, I THINK TIME WILL ONLY TELL AS TO WHAT THE ACTUAL CHANGES ARE GOING TO BE, AND I THINK THE POSITIVE IS THAT EMPLOYEES CAN WORK REMOTELY AND PRIOR TO THE PANDEMIC, THAT CAN YOU NOT SOMETHING THAT WAS NECESSARILY VIEWED AS A POSITIVE.

AND THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT COULD HAVE EASED SOME OF THE STRESSES THAT COME ALONG WITH BEING A WORKING MOTHER.

SO I THINK THAT'S POSITIVE.

AND TO YOUR POINT ABOUT BEING INVISIBLE, WE CAN CHANGE THAT.

EVEN IF YOU'RE WORKING REMOTELY, THE KEY IS FOR CORPORATIONS AND BUSINESSES TO MAKE SURE THAT WOMEN ARE INCLUDED IN CRITICAL DECISION MAKING, AND WOMEN, INCLUDING WOMEN WHO HAVE CHILDREN, BECAUSE THAT IS IMPORTANT TO THE POLICYMAKING OF THE INDIVIDUAL CORPORATIONS.

AND CORPORATIONS AND COMPANIES HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT THEY HAVE TO CONTINUE TO HIRE AND PROMOTE WOMEN.

A LOT OF THE RESEARCH THAT EXECUTIVE WOMEN OF NEW JERSEY HAS DONE IS THAT NEW JERSEY AS A STATE HAS INCREASED THE AMOUNT OF WOMEN IN LEADERSHIP POSITIONS AND PUBLICLY TRADED COMPANIES.

BUT THERE'S STILL A LOT OF WORK THAT HAS TO BE DONE.

AND WE HAVE TO HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE TO BE ABLE TO INFLUENCE THOSE DECISIONS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

STILL SOME WAYS TO GO.

SUE ALTMAN, ANA MARIA TEJADA, BILL ROGERS, THANK YOU.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

IN A PRODUCTION MEETING, THIS IS WHAT WOULD PROBABLY BE CALLED THE BLACK HISTORY MONTH SEGMENT.

I MEAN, WE TALK ABOUT THE BLACK EXPERIENCE ON "CHAT BOX" ALL THE TIME, BUT TOO OFTEN, FEBRUARY MARKS THE TIME OF YEAR WHEN YOU START TO HEAR ABOUT BLACK HISTORY ON MAINSTREAM AND COMMERCIAL MEDIA, OFTEN WITH MIXED RESULTS.

OUR NEXT GUEST HAS WRITTEN A BOOK ON BLACK HISTORY AND IN HIS SPARE TIME, HE'S ALSO PRESIDENT OF RUTGERS UNIVERSITY, JONATHAN HOLLOWAY, WELCOME TO "CHAT BOX."

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

I'M THRILLED TO BE HERE.

>> SO, HISTORIC IS AN OVERKUSED WORD BUT I FEEL LIKE IN THE COURSE OF THE BLACK EXPERIENCE IN AMERICA, SOME SIGNIFICANT BLACK HISTORY IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW, NO?

>> OH, YES.

I MEAN, I THINK GREAT MOMENTS ARE HAPPENING ALL THE TIME.

THEY'RE OFTEN BEING ACTED UPON BY UNKNOWN PEOPLE, IN A SENSE, BUT WE'RE LIVING IN A MOMENT OF INCREDIBLE TURMOIL.

I MEAN, THE SOCIAL PROTEST AND RACIAL PROTESTS FROM 2020, THEY ARE THE LARGEST, COLLECTIVELY THE LARGEST MOVEMENT IN THIS NATION'S HISTORY DRIVEN BY INCREDIBLE ACTS OF VIOLENCE THAT WE KNOW ALL TOO WELL IN OUR PAST.

>> AND YOU TALK ABOUT JUST NORMAL PEOPLE, BREONNA TAYLOR, GEORGE FLOYD, AND ALL OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO MAKE UP THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT.

IT REALLY HAS CHANGED THE TRAJECTORY OF THE CONVERSATION OVER THE PAST YEAR, PARTICULARLY, NO?

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, THE HISTORIANS AND SO MANY OTHER PEOPLE I KNOW, YOU KNOW THIS, THE EVENTS OF VIOLENCE AGAINST THE BLACK BODY ARE NOT NEW EVENTS, BUT THE WAYS IN WHICH WE KNOW ABOUT THEM AND THAT WE TALK ABOUT THEM HAVE CHANGED RADICALLY.

PART OF IT'S BECAUSE OF SOCIAL MEDIA, BECAUSE OF THE SMARTPHONES WE HAVE, BUT PART OF IT IS BECAUSE THESE EVENTS UNFOLDED LAST YEAR DURING A PANDEMIC WHEN SO MANY PEOPLE WERE INCONVENIENCED, OUT OF WORK, AND I THINK PEOPLE RECOGNIZE, ON A REGULAR BASIS, THAT THIS IS HOW BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE LIVE, THROUGH INCONVENIENCE.

BEING DISPLACED.

AND I THINK THERE IS A HEIGHTENED LEVEL OF SENSITIVITY AND AWARENESS THAT THIS -- SO THAT THIS BECAME WHAT I'LL CALL A TRANS-RACIAL MOVEMENT OF ENORMOUS PROPORTIONS.

>> SO, HOW MUCH OF AN EVOLUTION HAS THERE BEEN IN HOW BLACK HISTORY IS TAUGHT?

IS IT MUCH A PART OF THE SCHOOL CURRICULA IN HIGH SCHOOL AND GRADE SCHOOL AND HOW MUCH HAS IT EVOLVED?

>> SO, I'M 53 YEARS OLD, AND IN MY LIFETIME, I'VE SEEN TREMENDOUS CHANGE IN TERMS OF HOW SOME SCHOOLS AND SOME SCHOOL DISTRICTS TEACH THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN EXPERIENCE.

SO, I KNOW THAT EVEN IN JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL OR MIDDLE SCHOOLS, STUDENTS ARE BEING EXPOSED TO ELEMENTS OF THE BLACK EXPERIENCE WITH A LEVEL OF SOPHISTICATION THAT JUST WASN'T THERE WHEN I WAS THEIR AGE.

BUT THAT'S SOME SCHOOLS.

AND SOME SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

WE HAVE EXAMPLES IN JUST IN THE LAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS WHERE STATE BOARDS OF EDUCATION HAVE MADE IT -- OR OUTLAWED, I GUESS, THE TEACHING OF ETHNIC STUDIES IN ARIZONA OR INSISTED THAT -- I THINK IT WAS IN MISSISSIPPI, I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THIS, THAT -- BUT IN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS, THAT THEY REFUSED TO ALLOW A REFERENCE TO SLAVERY BUT INSISTED PEOPLE BE CALLED WORKERS INSTEAD.

A TREMENDOUS VIOLATION OF HISTORY.

SO, WHILE THERE IS INCREASED SOPHISTICATION ABOUT HOW WE UNDERSTAND THE BLACK PAST, THERE ARE STILL VERY PRESENT POLITICAL EFFORTS TO ERASE REALLY CRITICAL ELEMENTS OF THAT PAST.

SO IT'S QUITE UNEVEN, AND I'M AN EDUCATOR, AND I BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO WORK VERY HARD TO MAKE SURE THAT WHAT I'LL SIMPLY CALL FOR NOW THE BLACK AND BROWN PAST IS WOVEN INTO THE NATIONAL NARRATIVE, BECAUSE THOSE PASTS ARE CRITICAL TO WHO WE ARE TODAY AS A NATION.

>> AND SO MUCH VEHEMENT OPPOSITION TO A SIMPLE STATEMENT LIKE, BLACK HISTORY IS AMERICAN HISTORY.

>> LOOK, I THINK THE EVENTS OF JANUARY 6th, VERY MUCH ON OUR NATION'S MIND RIGHT NOW, FOR ME ARE AN INDICATION OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE ARE COMMITTED TO NOT KNOWING HISTORY.

WHEN THEY ARE DETERMINED TO -- GOING BACK TO WHAT I JUST TALKED ABOUT, ERASE WHOLE EXPERIENCES, SO THEY CAN FEEL JUSTIFIED IN THEIR PARTICULAR TAKE ON WHAT THIS NATION IS ALL ABOUT.

THEIR PARTICULAR TAKE IS HISTORICALLY INACCURATE.

WE KNOW THIS.

YET, THEY ARE FIXATED ON THIS.

PART OF THAT FIXATION, I THINK, RELATES TO WHAT I SIMPLY FEELS LIKE A FEAR OF WHAT AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY, AS FAR AS I'M -- WHAT I SPECIALIZE IN, WHAT AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY TELLS US ABOUT THE BROADER LANDSCAPE OF AMERICAN HISTORY.

THE FACT IS, A LOT OF THAT HISTORY IS HARD.

IT'S DIFFICULT.

IT'S UNPLEASANT IN MANY WAYS.

BUT MOST HISTORIES ARE, IF WE'RE BEING HONEST ABOUT THEM.

WHAT I THINK IS REMARKABLE ABOUT THIS COUNTRY IS THAT IT HAS HELD TOGETHER DESPITE THESE DIFFICULT HISTORIES AND CHALLENGES, AND SO THE MORE WE TALK ABOUT ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES AND HISTORIES, THE MORE WE CAN RECOGNIZE WHAT A SPECIAL COUNTRY THIS IS.

>> OF COURSE, HOW WE LEARN ABOUT BLACK HISTORY DEPENDS VERY MUCH ON WHO'S WRITING IT, RIGHT?

TELL ME WHAT'S DIFFERENT ABOUT "THE CAUSE OF FREEDOM: A CONCISE HISTORY OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS," WHICH, BY THE WAY, IS THE NAME OF JONATHAN HOLLOWAY'S BOOK.

>> I LIKE THE AUTHOR, SO THERE'S THAT PIECE.

THANK YOU FOR MENTIONING THE BOOK.

IT IS EXACTLY AS THE TITLE SUGGESTS.

IT'S A CONCISE HISTORY OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

IT'S A SWEEP OF OVER 400 YEARS OF HISTORY IN 125 PAGES, WHICH MEANS I CAN'T GO INTO DETAIL, BUT I GET TO ASK VERY LARGE QUESTIONS THAT I THINK INVITE US TO THINK WITH GREATER NUANCE ABOUT AMERICAN HISTORY THROUGH THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN EXPERIENCE.

BY ASKING WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A HUMAN.

BY ASKING WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN AMERICAN, BY ASKING WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A CITIZEN, BY ASKING WHAT IT MEANS TO BE CIVILIZED.

THESE ARE THE FOUR MAIN S QUESTIONS FROM THE BOOK.

THESE ARE QUESTIONS THAT WERE DEEPLY RELATED TO THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN EXPERIENCE AND ANSWERING THOSE QUESTIONS TELLS US A LOT ABOUT WHO WE ARE AS A NATION.

SOME OF THOSE ANSWERS ARE VERY HARD TO HEAR.

SOME OF THEM ARE INSPIRING.

BUT ALL OF IT TOGETHER MAKES UP WHO WE ARE, AND I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

>> WE KEEP HEARING ABOUT HOW DIVIDED THE COUNTRY IS.

I MEAN, I HAVE FELT THAT.

BUT I'M NOT A HISTORY PROFESSOR.

ARE THE CURRENT FISSURES DEEPER THAN EVER?

>> OH, DEEPER THAN EVER?

THAT'S A HARD ONE TO ANSWER.

I THINK WHAT WE ARE SEEING -- >> WE OFTEN HEAR THAT IT'S -- WE'RE AS DIVIDED AS WE'VE BEEN SINCE THE CIVIL WAR.

>> IT'S TEMPTING.

IT'S TEMPTING TO THINK THAT.

I RESISTED THAT KIND OF DRAMATIC LANGUAGE UNTIL THE LAST FEW MONTHS, AND FRANKLY, WITH ALL THE POLITICAL DISRUPTION THAT WAS BEING INVITED THROUGH THESE FAIRY TALES ABOUT THE ELECTION BEING STOLEN AND SUCH, I DID BEGIN TO WONDER AND WORRY THAT DEMOCRACY REALLY WAS AT RISK.

AND THE EVENTS OF JANUARY 6th, I NEVER COULD HAVE IMAGINED THESE THINGS HAPPENING AT ALL, AND I WAS VERY WORRIED ABOUT THE SANCTITY OF THIS VERY SPECIAL EXPERIMENT THAT WE CALL THIS COUNTRY.

THE REASON I'M HESITANT TO SAY WE'RE AS DIVIDED AS WE'VE EVER BEEN IS IT SUGGESTS THAT SOME NEW THING HAS CHANGED.

I DO THINK THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY GALVANIZED PEOPLE TO ACT IN WAYS THEY HAD BEEN REFRAINED FROM ACTING SO THAT IS A NEW THING.

BUT THERE IS A LONG CURRENT OF WHITE SUPREMACIST IDEOLOGY IN THIS COUNTRY'S HISTORY.

THERE'S A LONG CURRENT OF VIOLENCE AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE, POOR PEOPLE, IMMIGRANTS FROM CERTAIN PARTS OF THE WORLD, SO THERE'S SORT OF LIKE A LONG, PAINFUL NARRATIVE OF RACIALIZED VIOLENCE THAT IS REALLY AT THE HEART OF THE AMERICAN EXPERIENCE.

SO, THAT'S WHY IT'S HARD FOR ME TO SAY THIS IS NEW.

BUT WHEN THOSE PEOPLE WERE TRYING TO KNOCK DOWN THE DOORS OF THE CAPITOL, THAT FELT NEW TO ME.

THAT FELT LIKE A RADICAL BREAK OF SOME TYPE.

BUT THIS IS A FRINGE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

EGGED ON BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, BUT IT'S A FRINGE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

I THINK THERE'S A LARGE MIDDLE THAT WE NEED TO BE REALLY WORKING TOWARD WHERE THERE'S A LOT MORE COMMON GROUND THAN WE ARE OFTEN LED TO BELIEVE.

THAT'S WHERE THE WORK LEADS US.

>> I HAVE A QUESTION FROM ONE OF OUR VIEWERS.

BRENDA ASKS, WHAT IMPACT WILL THE PANDEMIC HAVE ON ADDRESSING SYSTEMIC RACISM IN SCHOOL SYSTEMS AND THE DIGITAL DIVIDE?

>> THIS IS AN EXCELLENT QUESTION.

WE ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE IMPACT OF THE PANDEMIC, PRECISELY FOR THESE REASONS.

HAVING ZOOM OR BEING ABLE TO DO INTERVIEWS LIKE WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW IS GREAT, BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE WI-FI, IF YOU DON'T HAVE ETHERNET CABLE, IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT DIGITAL ACCESS, YOU ARE CUT OFF, AND IN NEW JERSEY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A STATE OF GREAT WEALTH AND GREAT PUBLIC SCHOOLS, BUT ALSO A GREAT DIVIDE WHERE PEOPLE SIMPLY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO ALL THE MEANS OF HAVING GREAT SCHOOLS IN THE PANDEMIC WORLD.

SO, EDUCATORS ARE TALKING ABOUT A LOST GENERATION OF TWO OR THREE YEARS WHEN IT COMES TO YOUNG STUDENTS IN PARTICULAR.

AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS IS GOING TO MEAN, BUT IT IS DEEPLY WORRYING, AND IT'S A CALL FOR BUSINESSES, GOVERNMENT LEADERS, EDUCATORS TO REALLY WORK TOGETHER TO GET ETHERNET THROUGHOUT THE STATE, TO REDUCE THAT DIGITAL DIVIDE, SO WE CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ALL THESE GREAT TECHNOLOGIES THAT CAN HELP PEOPLE CATCH UP.

>> LET ME TOUCH ON SOME SCHOOL BUSINESS BEFORE I LET YOU GO.

YOU WANT TO OPEN UP CAMPUS FOR THE FALL SEMESTER.

YOU'RE GOING TO ALSO OPEN UP A VACCINATION SITE ON CAMPUS FOR STUDENTS AND STAFF.

IS THERE GOING TO BE VACCINE REQUIREMENTS FOR ENROLLMENT?

>> WE'RE STILL WORKING THROUGH THAT.

YOU KNOW, WE CAN SET UP -- WE'RE GETTING APPROVAL TO SET UP VACCINATED SITES BUT UNTIL WE HAVE THE VACCINE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO PROVIDE.

BUT THIS IS NOT JUST A RUTGERS STORY.

THIS IS A NATIONWIDE CHALLENGE RIGHT NOW.

AS WE GET TO LATER IN THE SPRING AND INTO THE SUMMER, WE'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF CHANGES IN THIS REGARD, AND SO I'M HOPING THAT RUTGERS WILL BE PLAYING A REALLY ACTIVE ROLE IN VACCINATING THE RUTGERS COMMUNITY AND THE EXTENDED NEW JERSEY COMMUNITY.

SO, WE'LL SEE ABOUT COMING FORWARD.

AS FAR AS REQUIRING THE VACCINATION, THERE ARE LEGAL ISSUES RELATED TO WHETHER ONE CAN OR ONE CAN'T AND IT'S PREMATURE TO SAY ONE WAY OR THE OTHER WHAT'S POSSIBLE.

I DO THINK GETTING THE VACCINATION IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT.

I WAS ON -- IN A CAMPAIGN WITH OTHER BLACK PRESIDENTS OF COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES IN NEW JERSEY, TALKING ABOUT TRUSTING THE SCIENCE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS -- WE HAVE OUR BEST PEOPLE WORKING ON THIS, AND WE KNOW THAT THERE'S A HORRIBLE HISTORY IN THIS COUNTRY WHEN IT COMES TO EXPERIMENT -- UNSANCTIONED EXPERIMENTS WITH THINGS THAT WERE PROMISED TO BE VACCINATIONS WITH BLACK AMERICA.

THIS IS NOT THAT MOMENT.

SO I UNDERSTAND AND RESPECT THE ANXIETY, BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE.

THIS IS A CHANCE TO GET THIS COUNTRY BACK ON ITS FEET.

WE ARE TRYING TO COME BACK.

WE WILL BE COMING BACK AT RUTGERS.

HOW THAT LOOKS REALLY DEPENDS ON THE VACCINATION RATES.

SO WE'LL BE BACK.

IT MAY NOT BE EVERYBODY ALL AT ONCE.

WE WILL SEE.

THE THING IS, WE'LL BE LIVING WITH THIS VIRUS FOR ANOTHER COUPLE OF YEARS, FRANKLY, BUT IN A MUCH SMALLER STATE THAN IT CURRENTLY IS RIGHT NOW.

GETTING THAT VACCINE IN PEOPLE'S SYSTEMS IS GOING TO MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF HOW QUICKLY WE CAN GET BACK ON OUR FEET.

>> ALL RIGHT.

HISTORY IS MADE EVERY DAY IN SO MANY WAYS.

AUTHOR, PROFESSOR, AND PRESIDENT OF RUTGERS UNIVERSITY, JONATHAN HOLLOWAY, GOOD TO MEET YOU, MAN.

THANKS FOR COMING ON WITH US.

>> MY PLEASURE.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> THAT IS "CHAT BOX" FOR THIS WEEK.

THANKS TO ALL OUR GUESTS, JONATHAN HOLLOWAY, BILL ROGERS, SUE ALTMAN AND ANA MARIA TEJADA.

JOIN US NEXT WEEK WITH YOUR UP EMPLOYMENT QUESTIONS FOR THE STATE'S COMMISSIONER OF THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND BE SURE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE YOUTUBE CHANNEL TO GET MORE "CHAT BOX" PLUS GREAT CONTENT LIKE "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE," NJ BUSINESS BEAT, AND NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS.

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

FOR THE ENTIRE CREW HERE, THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK.

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