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MORE INFORMATION IS ONLINE AT NJREALTOR.COM.

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AND BY POLITICO'S "NEW JERSEY PLAYBOOK," A TOPICAL NEWSLETTER ON GARDEN STATE POLITICS, ONLINE AT POLITICO.COM ♪♪ >>> STILL WAITING FOR A LEGAL CANNABIS INDUSTRY IN LAWMAKERS SAY THEY FEEL YOUR PAIN.

HI, EVERYBODY, IT'S "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE."

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

JOINED EACH WEEK BY A CAREFULLY CURATED COLLECTION OF REPORTERS COVERING THE STATE, INCLUDING THIS WEEK, KAREN YI, REPORTER FOR WNYC, FRED SNOW FLAK, COLUMNIST FOR INSIDER NJ AND TERRANCE McDONALD, IT TORE FOR THE NEW JERSEY MONITOR.

THEY WILL JOIN US IN A FEW MINUTES BUT WE BEGIN TODAY TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHY, AFTER OVERWHELMING SUPPORT FROM VOTERS IN 2020, NEW JERSEY STILL HAS YET TO GET A LOCAL OR LEGAL CANNABIS INDUSTRY UP AND RUNNING.

AS AN ACLU ATTORNEY, DIANA, WAS AN ADVOCATE FOR LEGALIZATION, NOW SHE RUNS THE SHOW AS CHAIR OF THE CANNABIS REGULATORY COMMISSION.

SHE JOINS US NOW FROM TRENTON.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> BUENOS DIAS, DAVID.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> THIS IS TAKING LONGER THAN WE EXPECTED.

IS IT TAKING LONGER THAN YOU WANTED?

>> I WOULD SAY, NO.

THIS IS ABOUT -- NEW JERSEY HAS BEEN EXCELLING AT ABOUT AVERAGE PACE FOR SETTING UP AND ROLLING OUT THE ADULT USE MARKET.

NO PUN INTENDED.

AND IN LESS THAN A YEAR, THE NEW JERSEY CANNABIS REGULATORY COMMISSION HAS MORE THAN QUADRUPLED THE MEDICINAL PROGRAM.

WE'VE RECEIVED MORE THAN 700 APPLICATIONS FOR ADULT USE CANNABIS BUSINESSES, AND JUST LAST WEEK, WE ISSUED NEARLY 70 CONDITIONAL LICENSES FOR BUSINESSES THAT WANT TO GET IN THIS INDUSTRY.

SO, I THINK WE ARE GOING AT A STRONG PACE, AND JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, WE AT THE CRC ARE EAGER TO SEE OUR ADULT USE INDUSTRY LAUNCH AND TAKE SHAPE.

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE EXPRESSING FRUSTRATION WITH WHAT THEY SEE AS A SLOW PACE OF THIS PROCESS.

ARE YOU FEELING AT THE CRC A BIT UNDER THE GUN WITH ALL THE CHATTER THAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW?

>> LOOK, WE GET IT.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE ARE EAGER TO HAVE RETAIL SALES BEGIN.

A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THAT VERY MOMENT.

MYSELF INCLUDED.

BUT IT'S IMPORTANT WE GET IT DONE RIGHT.

EVEN THE NEW JERSEY MONITOR RECENTLY ACKNOWLEDGED HOW OTHER STATES HAVE FARED IN THIS REGARD.

STATES THAT HAVE LAUNCHED THEIR SALES TOO QUICKLY, THEY SAW SUPPLY CRUNCHES, AND SO IF WE DON'T GET THIS DONE RIGHT, WE'RE NOT VERY INTENTIONAL AND DELIBERATE WITH HOW WE LAUNCH OUR ADULT USE MARKET HERE IN NEW JERSEY, WE COULD SEE SUPPLY CRUNCHES AS WELL.

WE COULD SEE PATIENTS LOSING ACCESS TO THEIR MEDICINE, NOT TO MENTION LONG LINES AND HEAVY TRAFFIC IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD STREETS.

AND SO, I IMAGINE THAT CONSTITUENTS WOULD BE JUST AS UPSET UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS AS WELL.

>> SO, WHAT IS -- WHAT IS THE BIG DELAY?

WHY IS IT THAT DESPITE THE FACT YOU MADE THE PROGRESS, YOU JUST MENTIONED, WHY -- WHAT IS THE BIG DELAY?

IS IT SIMPLY SUPPLY?

>> SO, I WOULDN'T SAY THAT THERE HAS BEEN A DELAY.

>> LET'S CALL IT THE PERCEIVED DELAY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

FAIR ENOUGH.

I THINK NEW JERSEY IS MAKING STRONG PROGRESS, THOUGH, SO OUR STAFF HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH ADULT USE APPLICANTS TO LET THEM KNOW WHAT THEY NEED TO PROVIDE TO THOSE CRC IN ORDER TO ADVANCE AND REVIEW AND APPROVAL PROCESS.

STAFF HAVE ALSO BEEN WORKING WITH OUR EXISTING MEDICINAL OPERATORS TO GET THEM TO A PLACE WHERE THEY NEED TO BE IF THEY WISH TO EXPAND INTO THE ADULT USE MARKET AS WELL.

OUR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, JEFF BROWN, HAS BEEN GIVING UPDATES IN THIS REGARD AT OUR PUBLIC MEETINGS.

I THINK THOSE UPDATES HAVE BEEN VERY HELPFUL FOR THE PUBLIC IN UNDERSTANDING NEW JERSEY'S PROGRESS, AND I THINK IT REALLY DEMONSTRATES HOW NEW JERSEY'S FRAMEWORK FOR EQUITY HAS BEEN UNMATCHED ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> THERE IS, AS I'M SURE YOU KNOW, LOTS OF UNREGULATED WEED OUT THERE.

I MEAN, THERE'S WEB ORDERS YOU CAN MAKE.

THERE'S HOME DELIVERY.

BODEGAS WHERE YOU CAN BUY A BAG OF CHIPS FOR $60 AND GET AN EIGHTH OF WEED FOR FREE.

WASN'T LEGAL CANNABIS SUPPOSED TO PUT AN END TO ALL OF THIS ILLEGAL ACTIVITY?

HOW ARE THEY SO WELL STOCKED?

>> SO, LEGAL CANNABIS WAS NEVER GOING TO COMPLETELY END THE UNREGULATED MARKET.

HOWEVER, AS ADVOCATES DID ACKNOWLEDGE, WHEN REGULATED PROPERLY AND WHEN OUTREACH IS DONE INTENTIONALLY TO BRING FOLKS FROM THE UNREGULATED MARKET TO THE REGULATED MARKET, WE WOULD HOPE TO SEE SOME REDUCTIONS IN THE SIZE AND SHAPE OF THE UNDERGROUND OR ILLICIT MARKET.

SO, AT THE CRC, WE HAVE OUR DIVERSITY OF -- OF THE OFFICE OF DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION.

OUR DIRECTOR, WESLEY McWHITE, HAS BEEN DOING INTENTIONAL OUTREACH TO TARGETED COMMUNITIES, INCLUDING THOSE WHO ARE CURRENTLY OR HAVE IN THE PAST OPERATED IN THIS UNDERGROUND MARKET.

BECAUSE WE WANT THEM TO JOIN US ON THE REGULATED SIDE SO THAT THEY CAN OPERATE WITH SOME SECURITY AND ASSURANCES THAT THEY ARE -- THEY HAVE SOME GUARDRAILS IN PLACE, AND SO THAT PATIENCE AND ADULT USE CONSUMERS CAN FEEL MORE CONFIDENT IN THE SAFETY OF THE PRODUCTS THAT THEY'RE GETTING.

>> ALL RIGHT, LET ME GET A PANEL QUESTION IN HERE.

TERRANCE, YOU HAD A QUESTION FOR DIANNA HOUENOU.

>> I'M CURIOUS.

IS THERE A STATE YOU'RE LOOKING AT THAT HAS LEGAL SALES RIGHT NOW WHERE YOU CAN LOOK AT AND SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO HAPPEN?

>> GREAT QUESTION, TERRANCE.

WE AT THE CRC HAVE BEEN LOOKING AND TALKING WITH OTHER STATES, BOTH STATES THAT HAVE MEDICINAL ONLY PROGRAMS AND STATES THAT HAVE ADULT USE PROGRAMS AS WELL, AND WE'VE BEEN LEARNING FROM ALL OF THOSE STATES WHAT TO DO, WHAT NOT TO DO.

AS MENTIONED EARLIER, WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO SEE IS SOME OF THE SUPPLY CRUNCHES THAT STATES LIKE ARIZONA AND ILLINOIS SAW WHEN THEY LAUNCHED THEIR MARKETS EARLY.

WHAT WE HOPE TO SEE IS SOME INTENTIONAL EFFORTS, BOTH AT THE STATE LEVEL AND THE LOCAL LEVEL TO ENSURE THAT EQUITY IS DONE AND TO ALSO ENSURE THAT WE'RE SETTING UP AN INDUSTRY THAT IS BUILT ON AND MAINTAINS RESPONSIBLE OPERATORS.

WE THINK IT'S CRITICAL FOR A PARTNERSHIP WITH OUR LOCAL OFFICIALS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING, AND HOW THEY CAN BE INVOLVED AND HOW THEY CAN SUPPORT BOTH OF THOSE AIMS.

SO, WE ARE CONSTANTLY LEARNING FROM OUR PARTNERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WE'RE IN CONSTANT CONTACT WITH REGULATORS IN THIS REGION IN PARTICULAR, AS WELL AS THOSE ACROSS THE COUNTRY TO LEARN FROM EACH OTHER.

>> SO, NOW, SENATE PRESIDENT NICK SCUTARI SAYS HE WANTS TO HOLD HEARINGS TO GET SOME ANSWERS.

IS THIS A WELCOME INTRUSION INTO YOUR EFFORTS, OR IS IT MEDDLING?

>> I CAN UNDERSTAND THE FRUSTRATION THAT THE SENATE PRESIDENT HAS EXPRESSED.

AS A CHAMPION OF LEGALIZATION AND THE MEDICINAL PROGRAMS IN ADVANCING THE -- BRINGING MEDICINAL CANNABIS TO THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY, I CAN UNDERSTAND WANTS TO SEE THINGS MOVE RATHER QUICKLY, AND I THINK FOR A NEW STATE AGENCY THAT IS SIMULTANEOUSLY DOING THE WORK OF BUILDING OUT AN ADULT USE MARKET, EXPANDING OUR MEDICINAL INDUSTRY, AND, YOU KNOW, CONTINUING TO EXPAND OUR AGENCY ITSELF, I THINK WE'RE DOING A GREAT JOB, AND SO OUR TEAM HAS BEEN WORKING TIRELESSLY TO STAY IN COMMUNICATION WITH OUR PARTNERS IN THE LEGISLATURE, WITH APPLICANTS, WITH PROSPECTIVE APPLICANTS, AND WITH OUR PARTNERS ON THE GROUND AND IN THE COMMUNITIES, SO THEY HAVE THE MOST UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION AND THEY CAN HELP SHARE INFORMATION WITH OUR PROSPECTIVE ENTREPRENEURS SO THAT ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO TAKE -- WHO WANTS TO BE A PART OF OUR GARDEN STATE CANNABIS INDUSTRY CAN DO SO.

>> ALL RIGHT, DIANNA HOUENOU, APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> ALWAYS A PLEASURE, DAVID.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> ALL RIGHT, LET'S BRING OUR PANEL IN HERE.

KAREN YI, FRIDAY SNOW FLAK AND TERRANCE McDONALD.

TERRANCE, IS NEW JERSEY THE GANG THAT COULDN'T SHOOT STRAIGHT, OR IS IT, AS THE KIDS SAY, COMPLICATED?

>> IT'S COMPLICATED.

NIKITA, ONE OF OUR REPORTERS JUST DID A STUDY AT OTHER STATES AND FOUND IT TOOK ABOUT 16 AND A HALF MONTHS BETWEEN VOTER APPROVAL AND LEGAL SALES TO BEGIN, AND WE'RE AT 17 MONTHS NOW IN NEW JERSEY.

BUT WE'RE NOT DONE YET.

SO, WE'RE SORT OF LIKE ON THE BACK END HERE.

I THINK THE FRUSTRATION OF NORMAL PEOPLE/POT HEADS, PEOPLE WHO WANT TO START SMOKING LEGAL WEED IS BY THE TIME MURPHY SIGNED THIS LEGISLATION LAST YEAR, IT HAD ALREADY BEEN A CONVERSATION FOR THREE YEARS BECAUSE THE LEGISLATURE TRIED TO DO IT AND THEN PUNTED TO VOTERS SO IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT'S BEEN A YEAR AND A HALF.

IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S BEEN ALMOST FOUR YEARS.

>> INTERESTING POINT.

FRED, ON THESE PROPOSED OR THREATENED LEGISLATIVE HEARINGS, THE SENATE PRESIDENT SAYS HE WANTS THEM AND THAT HE WAS REACHING OUT TO THE ASSEMBLY SPEAKER.

WE'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM HIM NOW.

THE SPEAKER WAS OUR GUEST ON "CHAT BOX," AND HERE'S WHAT HE HAD TO SAY ABOUT JOINING IN ON THE HEARINGS.

>> WHAT WE'VE DONE THE OTHER DAY, A MONDAY, I GUESS IT WAS, OF THIS WEEK, I MET WITH THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FROM THE CANNABIS COMMISSION AND EXPRESSED TO HIM, I THINK IN PRETTY CLEAR TERMS, THE FRUSTRATION THAT MEMBERS OF THE ASSEMBLY AND MYSELF ARE FEELING RELATIVE TO THE PROCESS.

WE'RE CONSIDERING, YOU KNOW, THE POSSIBILITY OF PARTICIPATING IN HEARINGS AND -- BUT FOR NOW, I THINK WE HAD A PRODUCTIVE CONVERSATION, AND I'M HOPEFUL THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET SOME REAL ACTION.

>> SO, FRED, THE SPEAKER SOUNDED A LITTLE LESS ADAMANT THAN THE SENATE PRESIDENT THERE.

ARE THE HEARINGS GOING TO HAPPEN, DO YOU THINK, AND WON'T THEY JUST DELAY THINGS FURTHER?

>> YOU MIGHT BE RIGHT.

OF COURSE, THE SPEAKER IS KIND OF LOW KEY ALL THE TIME, SO I GUESS THAT'S WHY IT DIDN'T SOUND ALL THAT ENERGIZED.

I THINK -- AND LIKE PEOPLE LIKE OURSELVES ON THIS PANEL WHO COVER GOVERNMENT, WE KNOW THERE'S BUREAUCRACY AND THAT THINGS TAKE A LONG TIME, BUT I THINK, AS HAS BEEN ALLUDED TO AMONG THE GENERAL PEOPLE IN THE STREET, MAYBE NOT ONLY POT HEADS BUT PEOPLE WHO JUST MAY WANT TO TRY SMOKING MARIJUANA FOR THE THRILL OF IT, IF YOU WILL, I MEAN, THEY SEE THAT AS NOVEMBER 2020 WHEN PEOPLE VOTED OVERWHELMINGLY, 65%, ROUGHLY, YES, AND NOW IT'S 16, 17 MONTHS LATER, AND THERE'S STILL NO REALLY FORMAL START DATE.

AND I THINK PEOPLE ARE FRUSTRATED, DESPITE WHAT THE -- WHAT THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CANNABIS COMMISSION SAID.

AND I THINK THESE HEARINGS WOULD BE A OUTGROWTH OF THAT FRUSTRATION.

>> IT'S FUNNY, THAT'S THE SECOND TIME THAT THE WORD "POT HEAD" AND MAYBE THE ONLY TWO TIMES THE WORD "POTHEAD" HAS EVER BEEN USED ON THIS PROGRAM.

KAREN, A PUSH TO MOVE UP THE STATE'S PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY.

FORMER GOVERNOR CODY HAS A BILL READY TO MAKE THE THIRD WEEK IN FEBRUARY NEW JERSEY PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY DAY.

THE STATE IS CERTAINLY MORE DIVERSE THAN IOWA OR NEW HAMPSHIRE.

CAN WE HANDLE BEING RELEVANT DURING A PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY SEASON, DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK THIS IS A REALLY INTERESTING DEBATE.

I MEAN, NEW JERSEY IS LIKE A MICROCOSM IN MANY WAYS FOR THE COUNTRY.

WE HAVE -- IT'S ALL HERE, RIGHT?

URBAN, SUBURBAN, RURAL, DIVERSITY AMONG RACE AND CLASS.

THERE'S POOR AND THERE'S RICH, AND SO I THINK MOVING US UP AND SEEING THE EFFECTS OF THAT, I MEAN, I THINK, DAVID, YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR PIECE, LIKE, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO CANDIDATES WHO COME FROM NEW JERSEY?

HOW WOULD THAT CHANGE THE ROAD FOR THEM?

I THINK THAT -- I THINK, IF THIS HAPPENS, I DON'T THINK UNSEATING IOWA IS GOING TO BE EASY, BUT I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING TO WATCH, AND AS WE TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHO HAS POWER AND WHO HAS A VOICE, NEW JERSEY IS A PERFECT REPRESENTATION OF THAT, RIGHT?

OUR COUNTRY GENERALLY IS MOVING -- IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE DIVERSE.

SO IS NEW JERSEY.

AND PUTTING US AT THE BEGINNING OF THE LINE, I THINK, WOULD SEND A DIFFERENT MESSAGE.

WHO ARE WE COUNTING FIRST?

AND WHO HAS A VOICE AND SORT OF SETTING WHAT'S TO COME IN THESE RACES.

>> YEAH.

TERRANCE, CAN YOU SEE PETE BUTTIGIEG MISTAKING TAYLOR HAM FOR PORK ROLL AND THE MEDIA FRENZY THAT WOULD ENSUE?

>> YEAH, I CAN'T SEE THAT.

I THINK THIS IS SORT OF A DISASTROUS IDEA THAT ONLY -- THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO WANT THIS ARE, LIKE, POLITICAL NERDS AND THE POWER BROKERS WHO WANT PEOPLE LIKE PETE BUTTIGIEG TO COME KISS THE RING AND POLITICAL CONSULTANTS LIKE PHIL WHO WANT TO MAKE A LOT OF MONEY.

I THINK NORMAL PEOPLE ARE TURNED OFF BY OUR, LIKE, NORMAL CAMPAIGN SCHEDULE, BY THE TIME WE GET TO ELECTION DAY, AND THEY DON'T WANT THIS CIRCUS COMING TO TOWN.

>> FRED, HOW WOULD IOWA AND NEW HAMPSHIRE REACT TO SHARING THE STAGE WITH, EW, NEW JERSEY?

>> THEY PROBABLY MIGHT THINK -- THEY PROBABLY WOULD MAKE FUN OF NEW JERSEY, WHICH IS NOT SURPRISING.

PEOPLE ALWAYS MAKE FUN OF NEW JERSEY.

BUT I THINK TERRANCE IS PROBABLY RIGHT, AND I MEAN, PEOPLE LIKE OURSELVES, AGAIN, WHO ARE POLITICAL JUNKIES, I THINK IT WOULD BE A LOT OF FUN.

BUT AVERAGE PEOPLE PROBABLY COULDN'T CARE LESS.

REMEMBER, THIS HAPPENED A FEW YEARS AGO.

WHEN NEW JERSEY DID MOVE UP THE PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY.

REMEMBER, WE HAD TWO PRIMARIES, THE PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY WAS IN MARCH AND THE REGULAR PRIMARY, IF YOU WILL, WAS IN JUNE, AND I DON'T THINK CARED THAT MUCH AND THEN WENT BACK TO NORMAL.

SO, AS I SAID, AS KAREN SAID, THIS WOULD BE FUN FOR POLITICAL JUNKIES, BUT MOST OTHER PEOPLE PROBABLY REALLY COULDN'T CARE LESS.

>> INTERESTING.

LET ME STAY WITH YOU HERE, FRED.

BUDGET HEARINGS HAVE BEGUN.

ARE YOU THE WONKY NERD ON THIS PANEL WHO LOVES BUDGET HEARINGS?

>> I DON'T KNOW IF I LOVE THEM.

I DID WATCH ONE OF THE BUDGET HEARINGS BEFORE THE ASSEMBLY A WHILE BACK, AND I WAS SURPRISED THAT -- I THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE PEOPLE -- USUALLY AT BUDGET HEARINGS, PEOPLE SHOW UP AND SAY, HEY, YOU'RE SPENDING TOO MUCH MONEY, BUT IT WAS JUST THE REVERSE.

EVERYBODY SAID, HEY, GIVE US MORE MONEY.

I MEAN, MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO SPOKE WERE MEMBERS OF PUBLIC INTEREST GROUPS AND VARIOUS SPECIAL INTERESTS.

I'M NOT SAYING THEY WERE UNSAVORY OR ANYTHING.

THERE WERE WORTHWHILE PROGRAMS.

I GUESS PEOPLE KNOW THE STATE SEEMS TO HAVE A LOT OF MONEY AND A LARGE SURPLUS, AND PEOPLE KEPT ON ASKING FOR MORE MONEY.

I'LL BE INTERESTED TO SEE IF EVENTUALLY YOU GET MORE OF THE SO-CALLED BUDGET HAWKS, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SAY, HEY, NEW JERSEY IS UNAFFORDABLE.

YOU'RE SPENDING TOO MUCH MONEY.

YOU HAVE TO CUT.

LET'S SEE IF THAT HAPPENS.

I'D BE SURPRISED IF IT DOESN'T.

>> SO, AS FAR AS A SOURCE FOR DRAMA OR SURPRISES DURING THE BUDGET SEASON, IT MAY BE A LOT OF THESE GROUPS WHO CAME AND TESTIFIED AT THE HEARINGS A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, THAT THEY'RE GOING TO END UP WALKING AWAY, THINKING THAT THEY GOT LESS, EVEN IN THE YEAR WHEN WE WERE SUPPOSEDLY FLUSH WITH MONEY.

>> YES, THAT COULD DEFINITELY BE.

YEP.

WELL, MAYBE NOT LESS, JUST DIDN'T GET -- THEY JUST DIDN'T GET ANY MORE.

THEY'RE NOT GETTING LESS.

>> RIGHT.

LET ME TOUCH ON A COUPLE THINGS YOU GUYS WORKED ON RECENTLY.

KAREN, WE HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS SCHOOL SEGREGATION SUIT HERE ON "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE" AND ON "CHAT BOX."

A COALITION OF GROUPS IS SUING THE STATE FOR TOLERATING WHAT THEY SAY IS DE FACTO SEGREGATION OF OUR SCHOOLS.

SOME ACTION IN TRENTON THIS WEEK FROM SUPPORTERS OF THE PLAINTIFFS, NO?

WHAT HAPPENED?

>> YES, SO, THIS IS A -- PROVIDING A LAWSUIT THAT WAS FILED FOUR YEARS AGO, ALLEGING THAT THE SCHOOLS ARE SEGREGATED AND THAT VIOLATES THE STATE CONSTITUTION, WHICH BANS SEGREGATED SCHOOLS, SO THIS IS STILL ONGOING IN COURT.

WE'RE WAITING FOR A JUDGE TO RULE ON WHETHER THE STATE IS LIABLE FOR ALLOWING THIS TO HAPPEN AND IF IT IS LIABLE, THEN WE'RE GOING TO MOVE ON TO THE HARDER CONVERSATION, WHICH IS, HOW DO WE FIX IT?

SO AS EVERYONE'S WAITING FOR THE JUDGE TO RULE, THESE GROUPS WENT TO TRENTON, STOOD OUTSIDE OF THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, AND SORT OF DEMANDED THAT THE STATE TAKE ACTION NOW.

>> IS THERE A SENSE OF -- FROM THE FOLKS WHO WERE AT THIS DEMONSTRATION THAT THEY MIGHT BE LOOKING AT A VICTORY AND A TOTAL CHANGE OF HOW NEW JERSEY HANDLED ITS EDUCATION SYSTEM?

>> YEAH, SO, THE GROUPS THINK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO WIN.

I MEAN, THEY THINK THAT THE STATE CONSTITUTION IS ON THEIR SIDE AND THAT IT BANS, EXPLICITLY, SEGREGATED SCHOOLS, SO THEY'RE SAYING, WHY WASTE ALL THIS MONEY?

WHY WASTE THE TIME IN LITIGATING THIS IN COURT?

LET'S JUST COME TO THE TABLE AND FIND A SOLUTION.

AND I THINK THERE IS NO ONE SIZE FITS ALL SOLUTION IN NEW JERSEY.

I MEAN, THIS IS THE STATE OF HOME RULE AND LOCAL CONTROL.

I THINK THE ADVOCATES ARE VERY CLEAR-EYED ABOUT THIS, HAVING TO WORK FOR DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES IN DIFFERENT WAYS, SO WHETHER THAT MEANS REGIONALIZATION IN SOME PARTS OR MORE MAGNET SCHOOLS OR INCENTIVIZING COMMUNITIES TO MERGE, THAT'S GOING TO BE THE HARDER CONVERSATION, AND THAT'S GOING TO REQUIRE EVERYONE, I THINK, TO COME TO THE TABLE.

>> YEAH, FOR SURE.

REMEDIES IS REALLY THE BIG QUESTION.

DID THE PEOPLE YOU TALK TO AT THE DEMONSTRATION, DID YOU HEAR FROM THEM A SENSE OF WHAT WOULD BE EITHER THE BEST WAY TO FIND SOME REMEDIES FOR THIS OR THE EASIEST WAY TO FIND SOME REMEDIES?

>> I THINK EVERYONE IS SORT OF BUCKLING IN FOR A REALLY HARD AND LONG CONVERSATION.

AND I THINK IT LOOKS DIFFERENT DEPENDING ON THE COMMUNITY THAT YOU'RE IN.

SO, YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, SMALLER DISTRICTS LIKE DOWN IN SOUTH JERSEY, LIKE PLEASANTVILLE, RIGHT, THAT ARE -- YOU HAVE A MAJORITY BLACK DISTRICT RIGHT NEXT TO A MAJORITY WHITE DISTRICT, AND SO MAYBE THE SOLUTION THERE COULD BE SOME SORT OF REGIONALIZATION.

BUT YOU HAVE OTHER PLACES LIKE HAMILTON, WHICH ARE DOING A REALLY GREAT JOB OF KEEPING THEIR DISTRICT DIVERSE, BUT THEY NEED HELP.

THEY NEED MORE RESOURCES AND THEY NEED MORE INCENTIVES AND HOW DO YOU REPLICATE THAT MODEL ELSEWHERE?

THAT IS A MUCH LARGER DISTRICT.

SO I THINK THE CONVERSATION HAS TO BE DIFFERENT AND INCLUDE PEOPLE OF THE COMMUNITY SO YOU'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, AS THE STATE HAS SAID, DEMOLISHING THE SCHOOL SYSTEM AS WE KNOW IT AND HAVING TO REBUILD IT BRICK BY BRICK.

I THINK YOU HAVE TO WORK ON WHAT WE HAVE AND SORT OF BRING STAKEHOLDERS TO THE TABLE SO THAT EVERYBODY ON BOARD, BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S MAKING IT BETTER FOR ALL THE KIDS.

>> YEAH.

I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE BIG NEWS LATER ON THIS YEAR.

TERRANCE, I KNOW YOU'RE AN IVORY TOWER EDITOR NOW, BUT YOU USED TO RUN THE STREETS OF JERSEY CITY AS A YOUNGER MAN.

YOU GOING TO TACKLE THIS MUNICIPAL BUDGET CRISIS BROUGHT ON BY THE BILLION DOLLAR SCHOOLS BUDGET?

>> THIS IS INTERESTING.

RIGHT BEFORE COVID HIT, THE MAYOR OF JERSEY CITY, STEVE, STARTED TALKING ABOUT CONVERTING THAT BOARD INTO AN APPOINTED BOARD OF ED, AND IT JUST SORT OF WENT AWAY WHEN COVID WENT AWAY, AND HE'S BEEN SO VOCAL ABOUT OPPOSITION TO THIS BIG TAX HIKE THAT'S COMING FROM THE SCHOOLS THAT I'M WONDERING IF IT IS START OF HIM REOPENING THAT CONVERSATION OF PUTTING HIMSELF IN CHARGE OF APPOINTING MEMBERS OF THE BOARD OF EDUCATION.

>> HE KIND OF HAS TO, RIGHT?

BECAUSE OTHERWISE, I MEAN, THIS FALLS ON HIM.

YOU'VE SPENT PLENTY OF TIME WATCHING THIS TIME BOMB GETTING BUILT.

IS IT POSSIBLE THAT BARRING ANY KIND OF RECOVERY FROM THE MAYOR, THAT WE'RE ALL JUST GOING TO BLAME HIM FOR THIS?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

HE'S GOT A PRETTY GOOD PR MACHINE, AND I THINK PART OF WHAT HE IS DOING IS MAKING SURE EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT HE IS NOT REALLY IN CONTROL OF THE SCHOOL TAXES PORTION OF SOMEBODY'S PROPERTY TAX BILL, BUT WHEN SOMEONE SIGNS A CHECK OVER, SIGNS THE CHECK OVER TO THE SCHOOLS AND THEN THE COUNTY AND THEN THE CITY, THEY'RE SIGNING ONE CHECK OVER SO HE MIGHT GET SOME OF THE BLAME.

I THINK WHAT'S NOT BEEN HIGHLIGHTED A LOT HERE IS THAT JERSEY CITY SCHOOLS ARE SORT OF IN A BAD POSITION, THEY'RE GETTING A LOT OF STATES IN A WAY.

IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE SPENDING MONEY TO HAVE FREE PONY RIDES FOR ALL THE KINDERGARTENERS.

THEIR SCHOOLS ARE FALLING APART.

>> THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT.

AND REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN APPOINTED TO JERSEY CITY AND SPECIFIC AS SCHOOLS THAT ARE OVERFUNDED AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU GET THE REACTION TO IT.

IT'S POTENTIALLY $1,600 PER RESIDENT, FRED.

FULL OF JUST -- SO YOU CAN'T -- THE BALLOT BOX SO WHO GETS THE BLAME HERE?

>> THAT'S PRETTY OUTRAGEOUS.

I GREW UP IN HUDSON COUNTY.

I DON'T REMEMBER PONY RIDES.

I'M SURE THEY DON'T HAVE PONY RIDES NOW EITHER.

SOMETHING REALLY, I MEAN, JERSEY CITY'S GENERALLY SPEAKING NOT EXACTLY AN EXTREMELY AFFLUENT CITY, SO THE MAYOR'S ANGUISH IS JUSTIFIED, I THINK, AND I'M SURE -- I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, THIS IS SOMETHING -- I MEAN, IT'S PRETTY GOOD POLITICS TO COMPLAIN ABOUT A $1,600 TAX HIKE.

THAT'S CERTAINLY WHY HE'S DOING IT, BUT HE'S ALSO, IN THIS CASE, IT'S GOOD GOVERNMENT AND GOOD POLITICS ARE BASICALLY ONE AND THE SAME.

>> LIGHTNING ROUND.

QUICK ANSWERS IF YOU CAN.

MURPHY TESTS POSITIVE FOR COVID.

WILL IT PUT A DAMPER ON OUR COLLECTIVE PLANS FOR A MASK-FREE SUMMER?

KAREN?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

I MEAN, THE GOVERNOR HAS SAID PRETTY CLEARLY, YOU KNOW, THE MARKET ISN'T THERE FOR MANDATES TO COME BACK.

I THINK EVEN AS WE'RE SEEING SOME CASES TRICKLE UP, I DON'T FORESEE ANY MANDATES COMING, ESPECIALLY THIS SUMMER.

>> ALL RIGHT.

SENATOR DURR CALLING FOR A GAS TAX REBATE.

GOVERNOR SAYS IT'S WORTH EXPLORING.

FRED, IS THIS THE KIND OF BIPARTISAN YOU WERE MUSING ABOUT IN A RECENT COLUMN?

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, LET'S FACE IT, EVERYONE LEFT OR THE RIGHT OR IN BETWEEN, SO ANYTHING THAT CAN BE DONE TO LOWER GAS PRICES IS GOOD POLITICS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

FINALLY HERE, SETON HALL ANNOUNCES THAT THEY'VE HIRED ST. PETER'S UNIVERSITY BASKETBALL COACH HOLLOWAY, EVEN BEFORE THE BIG NCAA RUN.

COULD THEY HAVE WAITED, YOU KNOW, UNTIL MONDAY, MAYBE, TERRANCE?

>> THROWING A BASKETBALL QUESTION TO ME?

I THINK MAYBE THEY PROBABLY WANTED TO BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE THE CAT WAS LET OUT OF THE BAG A LITTLE BIT EARLIER THAN EVERYBODY WANTED.

>> YEAH.

ALL RIGHT, THAT'S "ROUNDTABLE" FOR THIS WEEK.

KAREN, FRED, TERRANCE, GOOD TO SEE YOU GUYS AGAIN.

THANKS FOR COMING ON.

THANKS ALSO TO DIANNA HOUENOU.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER, @DAVIDCRUZNJ, AND SUBSCRIBE TO THE YOUTUBE CHANNEL, YOU CAN GET ALL MANNER OF LIVE STREAMS FROM AROUND THE STATE, PLUS "CHAT BOX," "BUSINESS BEAT," AND RETURN OF BRIANA VANNOZZI TO NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS ON MONDAY.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, EVERYBODY.

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

FOR ALL THE CREW, HAVE A GREAT WEEK.

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