♪ >> >> CROUCH BACKS INCOME TAX ELIMINATION.

THE FIRST TIMES GOP PRIMARY DEBATE, AND A CHANGE COMING TO THE INDIANA REPUBLICAN PARTY AND MORE.

FROM THE TELEVISION STUDIOS OF WFYI, IT'S INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THE WEEK ENDING AUGUST 25th, 2023.

>> INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORTERS OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS.

>> THIS WEEK LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR SUZANNE CROUCH, WHO IS RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR, IS BACKING A PUSH TO ELIMINATE THE STATE'S INDIVIDUAL INCOME TAX.

THAT TAX CURRENTLY BRIDZ IN ABOUT $8 BILLION A YEAR FOR INDIANA, ONE-THIRD OF TOTAL STATE REVENUE.

CROUCH SAYS SHE'S PUSHING INCOME TAX ELIMINATION BECAUSE SHE CONSTANTLY HEARS FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE STRUGGLING WITH INFLATION AND THE INCREASINGLY HIGH COST OF LIVING.

MAKING UP FOR THE LOSS OF SO MUCH REVENUE, SHE SAYS, WILL REQUIRE A HOLISTIC APPROACH.

>> WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT CUTTING GOVERNMENT SPENDING.

WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT LIMITING GOVERNMENT GROWTH.

WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT FINDING EFFICIENCIES WITHIN GOVERNMENT.

>> WHAT PROGRAMS OR SERVICES MIGHT BE ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK?

SHE WON'T SAY.

SHE ALSO WON'T DELVE INTO SPECIFICS ON HOW SHE WANTS TO MODERNIZE THE TAX CODE AS PART OF HER PLAN.

>> THE HOW ISN'T AS IMPORTANT AS THE WHAT, AND THE WHAT IS WE ARE GOING TO ELIMINATE INCOME TAX.

>> A LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE IS EXAMINING THE STATE'S ENTIRE TAX SYSTEM.

CROUCH SAYS SHE'LL WATCH CLOSELY THE RESULTS OF THAT EFFORT.

>> CAN INDIANA AFFORD TO ELIMINATE ITS STATE INCOME TAX?

IT'S THE FIRST QUESTION FOR OUR INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW PANEL.

DEMOCRAT ELELISE SHROCK, NIKI KELLY, JOHN SCHWANTES, MIKE O'BRIEN.

ELISE, IS THIS A GOOD IDEA?

>> WELL, IT IS CERTAINLY A FLASH-PAN IDEA COMING OUT OF A PRIMARY, QUITE FRANKLY, EARLIER THAN I THOUGHT SOMETHING THIS SWEEPING WOULD COME OUT.

SO THAT'S A SURPRISING THING TO ME WHERE YOU'VE GOT A CROWDED PRIMARY.

IT'S ALREADY BEEN CONTENTIOUS, AND ALREADY WE'RE THROWING SOMETHING THIS GRAND?

>> THE PRIMARY HAS STARTED A LOT SOONER.

>> THAT IS FAIR.

>> ADJUSTED FOR THAT.

>> YOU HAVE THE POLITICS AND POLICY SIDE OF THIS.

POLITICS, WE'RE ALL TALKING ABOUT IT.

THE POLICY SIDE TO NOT HAVE DETAILS ABOUT HOW THIS WOULD BE DONE TO TAKE $8 BILLION OUT OF OUR REVENUE, THAT'S A WHOLE YEAR OF SCHOOL FUNDING.

THIS ISN'T SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS OVERNIGHT.

THERE IS A CURRENT COMMITTEE, A TASK FORCE.

THEY MET THIS WEEK.

THEY ARE SETTING THIS.

YOU DON'T JUST ELIMINATE THE INCOME TAX.

NOT TO MENTION, WE HAVE SPENT THE LAST 15 YEARS JUST FOCUSED ON TAX BREAKS.

IF THE INTENTION WITH THIS IS TO HELP FAMILIES BECAUSE OF HIGH INFLATION, WE SHOULD BE INVESTING IN HOOSIER FAMILIES.

WE SHOULD BE SWITCHING TO A MODEL WHERE WE ARE INVESTING IN PUBLIC HEALTH, IN PUBLIC EDUCATION.

WE HAVE NOT BEEN DOING THAT BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN SO FOCUSED ON THE TAX BREAKS.

THAT'S THE POLICY SIDE.

ON THE POLITICAL SIDE IT'S SOME FLASH PAN POLITICS.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT, AND I THINK THAT'S THE INTENT.

>> THE HOW IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS THE WHAT AND THE WHAT IS LIMITING STATE INCOME TAX.

WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ELIMINATING $8 BILLION, AND THAT'S JUST RIGHT NOW.

BY THE TIME WE WOULD ACTUALLY DO THIS, WE WOULD BE PROBABLY CLOSER TO NINE OR EVEN TEN IF THINGS CONTINUE TO GO WELL.

THE HOUSE SEEMS PRETTY IMPORTANT, DOES IT NOT?

>> SURE, BUT WE'RE IN THE WHAT PART AR OF THE SIGNAL.

WE HAVE BEEN INVESTING IN ALL THE THINGS THAT ELISE JUST SAID, WHICH IS WHY, IN PART, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TAX CUTS AGAIN BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN AWASH IN AN OBSCENE AMOUNT OF SURPLUS MONEY.

A LARGE PORTION OF WHICH THEY SPENT DOWN.

I'M TRYING NOT TO REVEL TOO MUCH IN THE FACT THAT THE INDIANA DEMOCRATS AND CURTIS HILL BOTH AGREE.

CURTIS HILL, THE CONSERVATIVE IN THE RACE, THE SO-CALLED CONSERVATIVE OF THE RACE, SAID HOW ARE YOU GOING TO REPLACE ALL THIS REV OF NEW?

THAT'S NOT THE CONSERVE PART OF CUTTING TAXES.

YOU HAVE TO EXPERIENCE PAIN ON THE GOVERNMENT SIDE IF YOU ARE TRYING TO DELIVER RELIEF TO THE PEOPLE YOU ARE TRYING TO DELIVER RELIEF TO IN INFLATIONARY TOMB.

THIS IS SIMILAR TO ME IN THE CONVERSATION ABOUT PROPERTY TAXES.

SAME DYNAMIC.

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO IT?

WE CAN NEVER DO IT.

IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE.

IT'S GOING TO HURT TOO MUCH.

WELL, YOU GO THROUGH THAT, BUT IT WAS SO NECESSARY.

PEOPLE WERE LOSING THEIR HOMES ONLY BECAUSE OF THEIR PROPERTY TAX BILL.

THAT WAS BACK IN 2008, AND WE FIXED THAT PROBLEM.

BUT IT TOOK A NUMBER OF -- YOU HAD TO TURN A LOT OF DIALS TO DELIVER THAT LEVEL OF RELIEF.

ALSO NOT TO COMPLETELY FLUSH OR PUT THAT MUCH STRAIN ON STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.

I THINK THE COMMITTEE THAT MET THIS WEEK WILL LOOK AT ALL THOSE OPTIONS AND DIALS THAT YOU TURN AND DO IT -- MY FAVORITE MITCH DANIELS LINE.

LET'S WRITE A TAX CODE LIKE SOMEONE DESIGNED IT ON PURPOSE.

>> WE HAVE A FLAT PROGRESSIVE TAX WHEN IT COMES TO INCOME TAX.

THIS SEEMS LIKE THE TOTAL ELIMINATION -- >> TO THAT POINT, I WAS GOING TO SAY IF YOU WANTED TO GET -- SHE'S RIGHT.

PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING.

INFLATION, HIGH GAS PRICES, HIGH PRICES AT THE GROCERY STORE.

THAT IS A REAL PROBLEM THAT PEOPLE ARE ABSOLUTELY STRUGGLING.

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT -- AND IF YOU CUT A TAX, THERE IS A PAIN ON THE GOVERNMENT SIDE.

THAT'S THE WAY IT WORKS.

IT FEELS LIKE THAT WOULD BE A LOT OF PAIN NOT JUST FOR THE GOVERNMENT, BUT FOR PEOPLE WHO COUNT ON GOVERNMENT SERVICES IF YOU JUST GET RID OF THIS TAX.

WHY NOT MOVE TO A PROGRESSIVE INCOME TAX WHERE YOU ARE HELPING PEOPLE WHO CAN'T -- WHO NEED THE HELP MORE AND THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T NEED AS MUCH HELP WOULD PAY IN A LITTLE BIT MORE?

>> WELL, I GUESS THE PROBLEM POLITICALLY WITH ADOPTING THAT KIND OF PEA POLICY IS IT DOESN'T GET THE SAME KIND OF BANG FOR YOUR POLITICAL BUCK.

IF THAT WERE THE CASE, YEAH, WE MIGHT BE TALKING ABOUT IT, BUT IT WOULDN'T BE AS, WOW, NOW, THAT'S A BOLD PROPOSAL.

IT'S SURPRISING TO ME.

YES, YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE PARTICULARS AND SPECIFICS.

THAT'S ONE THING.

WE'LL TAKE THAT OF ON THE TABLE FOR A MINUTE.

IF YOU LOOK AT THESE CANDIDATES THAT ARE SEEKING THE JOB AND YOU SAID, WHO RANKED THEM MOST LIKELY TO PROPOSE THE ELIMINATION OF THE INDIVIDUAL INCOME TAX, I WOULD PUT HER MAYBE NOT AT THE BOTTOM FOR THE LIKELIHOOD, BUT CLOSE TO THE BOTTOM BECAUSE SHE'S SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN A CHAMPION OF GOVERNMENT AS A FUNDRAISER FOR GOOD IN TERMS OF THE MENTAL HEALTH ARENA, IN TERMS OF THE DELIVERY OF HUMAN SERVICES.

SHE CHAIRED A TASK FORCE, A ROUNDTABLE, AROUND THIS ISSUE FOR QUITE A PERIOD OF TIME.

THESE ARE ISSUES THAT DON'T COME CHEAP.

THE SOLUTIONS DON'T COME CHEAP.

>> WE JUST SPENT $100 MILLION ON THE NEW STATE BUDGET, AND EVERYBODY AGREED NOT ENOUGH.

>> NOT ENOUGH.

THAT'S ONE THING.

IT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S HARD TO RECONCILE THAT INDIVIDUAL WHO SAW STATE GOVERNMENT AS A FUNDRAISER FOR GOOD AND FOR LIFTING UP THOSE WHO NEED HELP.

AND THE NOTION OF IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE OVERALL.

SOME THINGS THAT -- MORE TRAILS, MORE PARKS.

THEY DON'T HAVE A DIRECT CAUSE AND EFFECT FOR THE PAYBACK, BUT THERE ARE THINGS THAT ONLY STATE GOVERNMENT CAN DO OR GOVERNMENT CAN DO THAT INDIVIDUALS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR CAN'T.

THAT'S JUST THE FACT.

AND IF YOU SACRIFICE THAT, THE ASSUMPTION IS IT JUST SEEMS TO ME YOU ADOPT THIS KIND OF KNEE JERK SENSE THAT GOVERNMENT IS BAD.

IT CAN'T BE A FORCE FOR GOOD.

IT CAN'T BE PROPEL CHANGE AND, THEREFORE, WE HAVE TO CUT IT TO THE BONE.

>> THE IDEA OF ATTRACTING BUSINESSES AND EVEN PERHAPS MORE IMPORTANTLY RIGHT NOW GIVEN THE STATE OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, PEOPLE AND TALENT TO THE STATE OR KEEPING THEM HERE BEFORE THEY LEAVE, THAT SHE BELIEVES YOU ELIMINATE THE STATE INCOME TAX, THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

MORE BUSINESSES AND MORE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COME HERE.

INCREASINGLY WHAT WE ARE TOLD BY BUSINESSES IS THAT QUALITY OF PLACE, THE IDEA OF MAKING A PLACE ATTRACTIVE TO LI LIVE AND WORK IN, NOT JUST TO WORK IN, BUT LIVE AND WORK IN, IS THE WATCH WORD OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

IF YOU TAKE AWAY THE GOVERNMENT'S ABILITY TO DO THINGS LIKE TRAILS AND ALL OF THESE -- THE IMPORTANT GOVERNMENT SERVICES AND THEN THE QUALITY OF PLACE GOVERNMENT SERVICES, BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT GO FIRST WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT SLASHING $8 BILLION.

ARE YOU HURTING YOURSELVES WITH THE VERY THING YOU THINK YOU'RE TRYING TO SOLVE?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S A TOUGH ONE.

I GIVE HER CREDIT FOR THROWING DOWN A BOLD IDEA.

SHE'S STEERING THE CONVERSATION.

HER OTHER OPPONENTS ARE HAVING TO NOW TALK ABOUT IT.

BUT THE DETAILS FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS COVERED THE NITTY-GRITTY OF STATE BUDGETS ARE IMPORTANT, AND SHE SAID WE'RE NOT GOING TO RAISE ANY ADDITIONAL TAXES, SO THEN THE IDEA OF EFFICIENCIES, THAT'S WHAT WE HEARD AGAIN AND AGAIN.

EFFICIENCIES.

LOOK, I DON'T -- THIS KIND OF CRACKS ME UP ABOUT THIS CONVERSATION IS REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN IN CHARGE FOR 20 YEARS.

ARE THERE BLZ BILLIONS OF PDOLLARS OF EFFICIENCIES STILL IN STATE GOVERNMENT OR INEFFICIENCIES IT, AND IF SO, WHY?

THEY'VE BEEN IN CHARGE FOR 20 YEARS.

ACTING LIKE YOU CAN FIND BILLIONS INEFFICIENCIES IS NOT REALISTIC.

WHEN YOU CUT SOMETHING, THAT MEANS SOMEONE DOESN'T GET A SERVICE, WHETHER IT MEANS YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE NEXT COUNTY TO THE DMV OR YOU -- YOU KNOW, JUST VARIOUS WAYS YOU INTERACT WITH STATE GOVERNMENT.

I APPRECIATE THE CONVERSATION.

I HAVE SAID FOR A LONG TIME I WANT CANDIDATES TO BE MAKING PROPOSALS AND LET'S TALK ABOUT THEM.

>> OH, YEAH.

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY A PROPROFESSIONAL.

>> YEAH.

>> TIME NOW FOR VIEWER FEEDBACK.

EACH WEEK WE POST AN UNSCIENTIFIC ONLINE POLL QUESTION, AND THIS WEEK'S QUESTION IS SHOULD INDIANA ELIMINATE ITS INDIVIDUAL INCOME TAX?

A, YES OR B, NO.

LAST WEEK'S QUESTION WAS CAN FORMER COMMERCE SECRETARY BRAD CHAMBERS MAKE AN IMPACT IN THE GOP GUBERNATORIAL PRIMARY?

33% OF YOU SAY YES, 67% SAY NO.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO TAKE PART IN THE POLL, GO TO WFYI.ORG/IWIR AND LOOK FOR THE POLL.

EIGHT REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES FACED OFF ON THE DEBATE STAGE THIS WEEK FOR THE FIRST TIME THIS CYCLE, THOUGH THE FRONTRUNNER, DONALD TRUMP, WAS NOTICEABLY ABSENT.

>> TRUMP CHOSE NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE DEBATE INDICATING HE HAD NOTHING TO GAIN, AND HE WAS THE TARGET OF SOME CRITICISM FROM THE EIGHT CANDIDATES WHO DID APPEAR ON STAGE IN MILWAUKEE.

BUT THE PRIMARY TARGET OF ATTACKS WEDNESDAY NIGHT WAS BUSINESSMAN VIVEK RAMASWAMY WHO HAS BEEN RECENTLY RISING IN THE POLLS, AND IT WAS FORMER VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE WHO FREQUENTLY CLASHED WITH RAMASWAMY.

>> WE DON'T NEED TO BRING IN A ROOKIE, PEOPLE WITHOUT EXPERIENCE.

>> AT LEAST ONE POST-DEBATE FOCUS GROUP, CNN'S, HAD RAMASWAMY WINNING THE DEBATE.

>> MIKE O'BRIEN, ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT PENCE AND OTHERS, ALMOST EVERYBODY, WENT AFTER VIVEK RAMASWAMY AND NOT RON DESANTIS?

>> YES, BUT NOT REALLY BECAUSE OF RON DESANTIS.

HE HAS HAD HIS CEILING FOR YOU FOR A WHILE.

HE HAS STAGNATED.

NOT ONLY DID THEY GO AFTER HIM, THEY CAME IN PREPARED TO GO AFTER HIM.

IT WASN'T EVEN LIKE HE WAS JUST LIKE OUTSHINING THEM IN THE MOMENT AND THEY'RE, LIKE, MAN, WE HAVE TO TAKE SOME SHOTS AT THIS GUY AND TRY TO EVEN THINGS OUT.

THEY CAME IN WITH CANNED LINES.

CHRIS CHRISTIE HAD THE OBAMA LINE.

THE LAST TIME WE HAD -- I'M TRYING TO TROLL HIM AKTS ON BEING THE OLD BROWN GUY ON STAGE, I GUESS.

NIKI HALEY DID THE SAME THING WITH HITTING HIM ON ISRAEL.

>> HE WAS EATING IT UP.

SOMETHING WE DON'T NEED A ROOKIE.

THERE WAS NO WAY HE CAME UP WITH THAT IN THE MOMENT.

>> THEY WERE ALL, LIKE -- YEAH.

RAMASWAMY CALLED THEM ON IT BECAUSE THEY HAD THESE CANNED LINES TO GO AFTER HIM.

IT'S INTERESTING TO JUST WATCH THAT AND THEN JUST TRY TO THINK ABOUT, OKAY, WHAT ARE THEY SEEING UNDER THE SURFACE THAT WE'RE NOT ALL SEEING YET OR THEY'VE BEEN ON THE TRAIL WITH THIS GUY AND THEY'RE, LIKE, NO, HE HAS GOT IT, SO WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE COOL IT OFF A LITTLE BIT.

>> TO THAT POINT IS RAMASWAMY COMING OUT AS MAYBE THE BIG -- ONE OF IF NOT THE BIG WINNER OF THIS DEBATE?

>> FOR THIS DEBATE, SURE.

NO MATTER WHAT SIDE YOU'RE ON, IF YOU ARE SCROLLING, HE IS THE FACE THAT IS POPPING UP.

TO MIKE'S POINT, HE WAS CLEARLY READY FOR IT.

HE WAS TAKING THE ANY NEWS IS GOOD NEWS TACTIC AND KIND OF LEANED INTO IT.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY THEY WERE ALL SAYING THE SAME THINGS.

THEY'RE ALL TRYING TO OUT-CLIMATE DENY EACH OTHER.

THEY'RE TRYING TO CALL FOR A NATIONWIDE ABORTION BAN.

THEY WERE SAYING A LOT OF THE SAME THINGS, BUT AS FAR AS WHO HAD THE MOST PA ZAZ, SURE, WE'LL GIVE IT TO HIM.

>> I THOUGHT MIKE PENCE'S 15-WEEK BASELINE PROPOSAL WAS -- SURPRISED ME BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN SO LOCKED INTO VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS, IF ANY, PRETTY HARD LINE, AND HE CAME -- WHEN HE CAME OUT WITH THAT 15 WEEK -- LET STATES DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO TO DIAL IT IN LET'S HAVE 15 WEEKS, WHAT AMERICANS SUPPORT.

I LIKED IT.

I'M SURPRISED HE WENT THAT FAR.

>> BECAUSE AMERICANS ARE SAYING WE DON'T WANT THIS.

EVERY CHANCE THEY CAN.

>> 70% OF AMERICANS WANT THIS.

>> IF HE PROPOSED ELIMB NAY NATURING THE PERSONAL INCOME TAX, THEN WE WOULD BE TALKING.

>> WE DON'T CARE ABOUT HOW WE PAY FOR THINGS.

THAT'S ATTENTION-GRABBER.

>> TO THAT POINT, HOW DID MIKE -- FEELS LIKE MIKE PENCE NEEDS TO MAKE A MOVE, AND IT FEELS LIKE HE STARTED TO.

HE GOT A LOT MORE INTENTIONAL GOING AFTER TRUMP A LITTLE HARDER.

DID THIS PERFORMANCE HELP MIKE PENCE?

>> NO, HE DID NOT MAKE A MOVE.

I MEAN, HE CLEARED WAS WANTING TO GET IN THERE.

HE WAS ATTACKING, BUT IT ALMOST WENT OVERBOARD, YOU KNOW, WHERE HE WAS KIND OF NEEDY AND WHINEY.

WHY ISN'T IT MY TURN TO PEEK?

HE WAS TALKING OVER THE BELL AND TALKING OVER HIS OPPONENTS.

HE WAS NOT HELPED.

I DO THINK BEHIND THE DEBATE, I THINK NIKI HALEY PROBABLY IMPROVED HER SITUATION THE MOST.

SHE DISTINGUISHED HERSELF FROM HER OPPONENTS ON A FEW ITEMS.

I HAVE TO TELL YOU, THAT WAS ONE OF THE MOATS ENTERTAINING DEBATES I'VE WATCHED IN A LONG TIME.

I LOOK FORWARD TO THE NEXT ONE.

>> I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT RON DESANTIS QUICKLY.

HE'S SEEN AS THE GUY.

IF IT'S NOT GOING TO BE TRUMP, IT'S GOING TO BE RON DESANTIS.

THAT'S KIND OF WHERE EVERYBODY SAW THIS GOING FOR A WHILE, BUT MIKE MADE THE POINT, HE SEEMS TO BE STAGNATING, MAYBE HITTING A CEILING.

HE NEEDED A GOOD PERFORMANCE.

NOBODY ATTACKED HIM, WHICH IS GREAT, BUT I DON'T THINK KR MANY PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT RON DESANTIS AFTER THAT DEBATE.

IS THAT A PROBLEM?

>> OH, I THINK HE IS NOT LIVING UP TO EXPECTATIONS.

LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY.

IN FACT, ONE OF THE BIGGEST STORIES LEADING UP TO THE DEBATE REALLY SORT OF BOXED HIM IN.

IT WAS HIS OWN -- WELL, A PACT THAT'S NOT TECHNICALLY TIED TO IN A LEGAL SENSE TO THE CANDIDATE AND, THERE ARE, CAN'T COMMUNICATE DIRECTLY, BUT POSTED ALL KINDS OF ADVICE ABOUT STRATEGYIC APPROACH FOR THIS DEBATE AND LABELING RAMASWAMY VIVEK THE FAKE.

IF HE HAD EVER THOUGHT ABOUT USING ANY OF THIS MATERIAL, MAYBE EVEN INDEPENDENT OF WHAT THIS PACT HAD SAID -- >> HE COULDN'T DO IT.

>> HE COULDN'T DO IT SO HITS HANDS WERE TIED.

RAMASWAMY RAMASWAMY, THIS IS THE FINISH NO, MA'AM NO, MA'AM WE SEE WITH PROCTER & GAMBLE AND OTHER PRODUCT MANUFACTURERS FIGURED OUT A LONG TIME AGO.

PUT NEW ON THE LABEL, AND YOU'RE GOING TO GET SOME EYEBALLS.

I THINK HE'S GOING TO BENEFIT IN THE SHORT-TERM.

HE IS DIFFERENT.

HE LOOKS DIFFERENT.

HE IS FRESH.

HE IS DIFFERENT, BUT HE ALSO HAS THAT SHOOT FROM THE HIP QUALITY WHERE -- THAT HE IS NOT ACCUSTOMED TO DEALING WITH IT AT THE -- UNDER THE SCRUTINY ONE RECEIVES WHEN ONE WANTS TO BE -- TO OCCUPY THE WHITE HOUSE.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ABOLISHING THE FBI, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT WAYS TO CONTROL CHINA BY ARMING EVERYBODY, THERE'S SOME INTERESTING -- THEY DON'T REALLY -- AND THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

YOU GET A LOT OF -- HE HAS BEEN HIT A LOT WITH THERE WERE FEDERAL AGENTS ON THE PLANES AT 9/11.

>> I MEAN, IT'S NOT LIKE REPUBLICANS ELECTED A GUY TO THE WHITE HOUSE THAT FITS THAT DESCRIPTION ALMOST EXACTLY CORRECTLY IN 2016 AND RENOMINATED HIM IN 2020, AND HE IS THE FRONTRUNNER FOR 2024.

IT ONLY SEEMS TO WORK FOR DONALD TRUMP.

>> IF YOU TRY IT, YOU BUY IT BECAUSE IT'S NEW, BUT THEN YOU TRY IT, AND IT'S NOT WORKING ANY BETTER, THEN YOU MAY NOT BUY IT AGAIN.

ARE >> WE ALL BUY -- KYLE HUPFER WILL SOON STEP DOWN AS CHAIR OF THE INDIANA REPUBLICAN PARTY AFTER MORE THAN HALF A DECADE LEADING THE POLITICAL ORGANIZATION.

>> HUPFER'S SIX AND A HALF YEARS LEADING THE INDIANA GOP MAKES HIM THE LONGEST-SERVING HEAD OF THE STATE PARTY IN MORE THAN 20 YEARS.

UNDER HIS TENURE, REPUBLICANS TOOK CONTROL OF EVERY STATEWIDE ELECTED POSITION IN GOVERNMENT.

IN A STATEMENT, HUPFER CALLED HIS TIME LEADING THE PARTY A "GREAT HONOR AND PRIVILEGE" AND TOUTED THE GAINS MADE BY THE GOP AT THE LOCAL LEVEL.

HUPFER WILL OFFICIALLY STEP ASIDE ONCE HIS SUCCESSOR IS ELECTED BY THE PARTY'S CENTRAL COMMITTEE.

>> JON SCHWANTES, HOW IMPORTANT IS A STATE PARTY CHAIR FOR THE PARTY'S SUCCESS?

>> I STILL THINK THEY'RE UNDERESTIMATED IN THEIR VALUE AND THEIR WORTH.

ESPECIALLY IN A STATE WHERE HAVING R BEHIND YOUR NAME IF YOU GO IN WITH STRAIGHT TICKET VOTING, IT PACK A PUNCH.

IF YOU HAVE THE ORGANIZATIONAL HEFT TO HELP SOMEBODY GET ON A BALLOT, GET SIGNATURES, EVEN A HIGH PROFILE INDIVIDUAL WHO SUCCEEDED IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR OR DONE SOMETHING THAT'S GARNERED HEADLINES THROUGH SOME OTHER ENDEAVOR, THERE IS THE NITTY GRITTY OF POLITICKING THAT'S STILL SOMEBODY HAS TO DO IT, AND STATE PARTIES -- YOU DON'T HAVE THE CLOUT NECESSARILY THAT YOU USED TO.

THEY DON'T RUN THE LICENSE BRANCHES ANYMORE, AND SO THE REVENUE STREAM ISN'T WHAT IT WOULD BE.

I THINK YOU UNDERESTIMATE THEIR ROLE AT YOUR OWN PERIL IF YOU ARE AN UP AND COMING CANDIDATE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT HIS -- GENERALLY SPEAKING, IN INDIANA THE GOVERNOR, IT IF THAT'S THE PARTY IN CONTROL, THE GOVERNOR KIND OF LEADS THE PARTY EVEN IF THERE'S A SENATOR IN THE SAME PARTY.

THE GOVERNOR LEADS THE STATE PARTY.

THE GOVERNOR IS OFTEN THE ONE WHO SAYS THIS IS THE PERSON I WANT LEADING THE STATE PARTY, WHICH MAKES SENSE.

YOU WANT THAT COHESION.

ERIC HOLCOMBE WILL BE OUT OF THAT JOB HERE PRETTY SOON, BUT YOU NEED SOMEONE IN THE INTERIM.

HE HAS SAID I WANT ANN HATHAWAY TO LEAD THE STATE PARTY, BUT THAT FEELS LIKE A CARETAKER POSITION, IS IT NOT?

>> IT'S A REALLY ODD TIME BECAUSE NORMALLY YOU WOULD WAIT UNTIL THE NEW GOVERNOR WAS ELECTED, AND IF IT'S A REPUBLICAN, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THEN THE NEW GOVERNOR WOULD SORT OF GET THEIR PERSON.

SO, YEAH, I DON'T KNOW -- >> WHICH IS WHY KYLE HUPFER WAS THE STATE PARTY -- >> I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S MORE OF, LIKE YOU SAID, A CARETAKER SITUATION.

I THINK ANN HATHAWAY -- I DON'T THINK SHE'LL HAVE IN I TROUBLE GETTING THE SUPPORT OF THE CENTRAL COMMITTEE.

SHE'S INCREDIBLY INTELLIGENT, TALENTED.

SHE'S BEEN AROUND THE STATE AND PARTY POLITICS FOR YEARS.

I DON'T THINK SHE'LL HAVE ANY TROUBLE CONTINUING THE SUCCESS THAT THAT PARTY HAS HAD, BUT IT'S VERY INTERESTING TIMING.

I GUESS WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> NOW, REPORTEDLY HUPFER IS GOING TO HELP BRAD CHAMBERS IN HIS GUBERNATORIAL CAMPAIGN.

WE KNOW THAT THE WAY THAT KYLE HUPFER IS VERY WELL-LIKED AMONG THE STATE PARTY APPARATUS FOR OBVIOUS REASONS, BUT GO OUTSIDE THE STATE PARTY APPARATUS, AND THERE'S BEEN SOME UNREST OVER HOW CONSERVATIVE OR NOT PEOPLE, REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS ARES FEEL THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS.

IS THAT GOING TO HELP BRAD CHAMBERS?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

HIS TENURE THE PARTY HAS CHANGED QUITE A BIT.

THE ARGUMENTS THAT ARE HAPPENING INTERNALLY FROM A NATIONAL SIDE AND DOWN TO STATE IS NOT LIKE, OH, SHOULD WE -- IT'S NOT ABOUT TAX BREAKS.

IT'S NOT SHOULD WE DIP INTO THIS SOCIAL ISSUE OR NOT.

IT'S LIKE DO WE BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY?

THAT IS HOW EXPANSIVE THESE CONVERSATIONS HAVE BECOME.

WHOEVER STEPS INTO THAT ROLE, THAT IS A LOT TO STEP INTO.

WHEREVER HE GOES, HE TAKES THAT WITH HIM.

THIS IS GOING TO BE A PIVOTAL POINT FOR THE PARTY.

>> TO THAT END, EVEN IF IT'S A KIND OF CARETAKER ROLE UNTIL PRESUMABLY A REPUBLICAN IS ELECTED GOVERNOR IN 2024, YOU'RE PRESIDING OVER A PARTY THAT IS OVERSEEING A MASSIVE, HUGELY IMPACTFUL PRIMARY.

NOW, THE STATE PARTY IS NOT GOING TO COME IN AND SAY, OH, YEAH, THIS IS OUR PICK.

OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT FOR THIS GUBERNATORIAL PRIMARY.

HOW DIFFICULT A JOB IS THAT FOR WHOEVER TAKES THIS POSITION FOLLOWING KYLE >> IT'S A MANAGEMENT POSITION.

AYE NEVER BEEN STATE CHAIR, BUT I'VE BEEN COUNTY CHAIR AND DISTRICT CHAIR, CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT CHAIR.

YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE POCKETS OF PEOPLE -- THERE'S A LOT OF FRICTION IN THESE POSITIONS.

THERE'S A LOT OF BIG EGOS AND PEOPLE TRYING TO MOVE FROM THIS OFFICE TO THAT OFFICE, AND THERE'S PEOPLE IN OTHER PEOPLE IN THE WAY OF THAT, AND YOU'RE TRYING TO MANAGE THAT.

LOTS TO -- THE RECORD OF KYLE'S TENURE SPEAKS FOR ITSELF, BUT WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW IS OUR STATE PARTY WAS NOT MANAGED WELL OR IN A GOOD POSITION COMING OUT OF 2016.

THE MONEY WAS ALMOST WEEK TO WEEK.

THE GOVERNOR PENCE KIND OF RAN HIS OWN SEPARATE ORGANIZATION.

HE PREFERRED THAT OVER THIS KIND OF UNIFIED.

KYLE REALLY PULLED THAT ALL BACK TOGETHER AND MADE STATE PARTY A STRONG -- WITH A GREAT STAFF AROUND HIM A REALLY STRONG OPERATION.

THEY COULD DROP INTO AND MANAGE CAMPAIGNS WHEN HISTORIC NUMBER OF MAYORAL RACES WERE WON, AND PEOPLE FORGET ABOUT THAT.

HE DESERVES CREDIT FOR THE WINS AND THE OPERATION HE CREATED AND WILL LEAVE BEHIND WHICH WILL EASILY CARRY US THROUGH 2024.

>> INDIANA'S PUBLIC SCHOOLS BOARD FILED A LAWSUIT MONDAY AGAINST EDUCATION SECRETARY KATIE JENNER AND OTHER STATE OFFICIALS.

ERIC WEDDLE REPORTS THE SUIT IS OVER A CONTROVERSIAL LAW THAT ALLOWS CHARTER SCHOOL ORGANIZATIONS TO BUY CLOSED PUBLIC SCHOOL BUILDINGS FOR $1.

>> THIS YEAR POLICYMAKERS REVAMPED THE SO-CALLED DOLLAR LAW AND ADDED AN EXEMPTION.

TO QUALIFY, A SCHOOL DISTRICT MUST SHARE TAX REFERENDUM FUNDS WITH CHARTER SCHOOLS.

IPS SAYS IT DOES JUST THAT, SHARING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS WITH SOME CITY CHARTER SCHOOLS.

AND NOW, THE DISTRICT WANTS TO SELL TWO CLOSED SCHOOL BUILDINGS.

EDUCATION SECRETARY KATIE JENNER SAYS IPS IS NOT EXEMPT.

IPS FILED A LAWSUIT IN MARION COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT.

THEY WANT A JUDGE TO DECIDE IF THE DISTRICT IS EXEMPT.

>> NIKI KELLY, IS THIS ONE DOLLAR SCHOOL POLICY TURNED INTO A BIT OF A MESS?

>> IT'S BEEN A MESS SINCE IT STARTED.

WE HAVE TWEAKED THE LAW AND CHANGED THE LAW AND TWEAKED THE LAW.

WE'VE HAD LAWSUITS BACK AND FORTH.

I THINK -- YOU MENTIONED BOB BEHNING, HE SAID IN THE SESSION THAT HE WANTED T GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS, AND I THINK LOOCH REPUBLICANS AGREE WITH HIM.

IT'S MORE TROUBLE THAN IT'S WORTH.

I THINK IT'S SUNSET NOW, AND WE ARE GOING TO MOVE THAT WAY.

IN THE MEANTIME, YOU HAVE ANOTHER LAWSUIT.

>> ARE WE CLOSE TO THE END OF THE ONE DOLLAR SCHOOL POLICY?

>> I HOPE SO.

I MEAN, IT HAS TAKEN UP A LOT OF AIR AT THE LEGISLATURE.

WHEN WE HAVE SO MANY MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO BE TALKING ABOUT.

ACCOUNTABILITY FOR CHARTER SCHOOLS BEING ONE OF THEM.

WE SHOULD BE TALKING WITH ACCOUNTABLEABILITY OVER GIVING THEM BREAKS LIKE THIS.

IT'S BEEN UNPOPULAR.

IT CONTINUES TO BE UNPOPULAR.

YEAH, I THINK -- >> ADJUSTING FOR INFLATION IT SHOULD BE $3.

LIKE 3 OR 4.

>> AT LEAST.

ARE WE CLOSE TO THE END OF THIS POLICY NOW?

>> AS WE CLOSE BILL 391 HE WANTS TO GET OUT OF THIS IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS, AND THAT'S WHERE WE'RE HEADED.

>> FINALLY, THE GOVERNOR MARKED THE OFFICIAL STATEWIDE EXPANSION OF DOLLY PARDON'S IMAGINATION LIBRARY.

NOW, THIS IS AN ISSUANCE THAT PROVIDES FREE BOOKS EVERY MONTH FOR CHILDREN FROM BIRTH UP TO AGE 5 REGARDLESS OF INCOME LEVEL.

IT HAS BEEN A TREMENDOUS SUCCESS IN THE STATES.

HERE IN INDIANA IT WAS IN MORE THAN HALF OF ALL COUNTIES.

NOW WITH STATEWIDE BUY IN IT WILL BE STATEWIDE IN ALL 92 CANDIDATES.

MIKE O'BRIEN, WHAT WAS YOUR FAVORITE BOOK AS A KID?

>> I WAS WORRIED WE WERE GOING TO HAVE A BOOK, AND I WOULD PICK GREEN EGGS AND HAM.

ARE YOU MY MOM IS PULLED OFF THE SHELVES.

I WAS ALWAYS A BIG FAN.

>> HAMILTON.

FAVORITE ZERO TO 5 BOOK AS A KID >> WHERE THE SIDE WALK ENDS, SHELL SILVERSTEIN.

>> I READ ALL THE CORDUROY BOOKS, AND I JUST LOVED THEM.

>> ABSOLUTELY GREAT.

>> PEOPLE JOKE ABOUT IT.

I HAD SEE DICK RUN, SEE JANE'S DOG.

THAT'S STILL ON MY SHELF SOMEWHERE.

>> I ASKED MY MOM WHAT WAS THE BOOK THAT I RAN TO GET THE MOST OFTEN.

SHE SAID ANY OF TOMMY -- BOOKS.

>> BEING READ TO ME.

>> I THOUGHT GREEN EGGS AND HAM WAS IN THE MOST LANGUAGES.

THAT WAS A BILINGUAL VERSION.

>> I LIKE THAT, YES.

I WOULD SAY ANY OF THOSE BOOKS.

MY WIFE, WHICH TELLS YOU A LOT ABOUT MY WIFE, USED TO READ GRIMM'S FAIRY TALES.

NOT THE SANITIZED VERSION.

NOT THE DISNEY-FIED VERSION.

THE ORIGINAL REALLY, REALLY DARK GRIMM'S FAIRYTALES.

THAT'S INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THIS WEEK.

OUR PANEL IS DEMOCRAT ELISE SHROCK, REPUBLICAN MIKE O'BRIEN, JON SCHWANTES OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS, AND NIKI KELLY OF THE INDIANA CAPITAL CHRONICLE.

YOU CAN FIND INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW'S PODCAST AND EPISODES AT WFYI.ORG/IWIR OR ON THE PBS APP.

I'M BRANDON 134I9SMITH OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING.

JOIN US NEXT TIME BECAUSE A LOT CAN HAPPEN IN AN INDIANA WEEK.

♪ >> THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE SOLELY THOSE OF THE PANELISTS.

INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW IS A WFYI PRODUCTION IN ASSOCIATION WITH INDIANA'S PUBLIC BROADCAST