- [Narrator] Major funding for this program was provided by.

(upbeat music) - [Rob] Welcome to Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders, A Philadelphia story.

I'm your host, Rob Busher.

Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders make up a demographic that encompasses over 40 unique countries and cultures of origin.

Everything east of Istanbul and west of California.

As a mixed race Japanese American, I grew up learning about the history of my community through the stories of our elders.

Unfortunately, because this history is missing from most school curriculums, I knew very little about other AAPI communities until I became an ethnic studies scholar.

In this series, we will share the local history of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders through conversation with some of Philadelphia's most prominent Asian American community members.

Together, we will explore the unique experiences of being AAPI in Philadelphia.

On today's episode, we'll be discussing topics related to cultural appropriation, cultural appreciation, and the role that the arts have played in helping shape perceptions of AAPI communities in our region.

Our conversation will also explore the ways in which local artist activists have worked to reclaim the narrative around Asian and Pacific Islander identity, giving voice to the authentic experiences of our communities.

I'm joined by panelists, Dr. Fariha Khan, co-director of University of Pennsylvania's Asian American Studies Program, and Gayle Isa, founder and former executive director of Asian Arts Initiative.

Welcome to you both.

I'd like to go to Dr. Khan for our first question.

I've heard you use the phrase consuming the enemy in the past, and I'm wondering if you could elaborate on that a little bit as it relates to commodification of culture.

- So consuming the enemy, that particular comment, was given with the example of the rise of halal food and halal food products, alongside the disturbing increase in Islamophobia.

So in other words, while folks were afraid of Muslim Americans or discriminated against Muslim Americans, they still wanted to consume their food.

And we see this historically with many other Asian American communities throughout the history of the U.S.

Some scholars have actually termed this particular phenomenon as culinary colonialism.

And we see, if we look back at the history of Asian Americans, that many aspects of Asian American life, their heritage, their traditions, their faith practices, while the Asian American body was not welcome in the U.S. And in many ways, we understand Asian American history as wanting Asian Americans for their labor but not for their lives.

And I think when we think back about the commodity aspect, we see that historically, the U.S. has always wanted Asian goods and Asian products.

We can think about silk, we can think about tea, spices, porcelain.

I mean, many, many things were commodities that the U.S. desired, but not necessarily the lives of Asian Americans.

- Absolutely.

Well thank you for that historical context.

And I'd like to move to Gayle for our next question.

On a local history focus, Gayle, you were the executive director of Asian Arts Initiative for 25 years.

A groundbreaking arts organization that really helped pave the careers of many of Philadelphia's Asian American creatives.

Can you comment briefly on the history of Asian Arts Initiative and the role that it's played over the last two and a half decades in the creative life of Philadelphia?

- Sure.

So I guess I can start by sharing that when I began working in Philadelphia as a college volunteer in the early '90s, and before Asian Arts Initiative was started, there were really, in terms of the arts and cultural landscape, there were a handful of Southeast Asian mutual associations and individual artists and ethnic-specific dancer performance groups, for whom the Philadelphia Folklore Project was a fierce advocate.

Asian Americans United had an arts committee with, not exclusively, but a particular focus on youth, which actually led some funders to question like, why is it necessary to have more than one Asian American youth organization in the city?

Also, the Asian American Youth Association that existed at the time focused primarily in Southwest Philadelphia.

And of course there were other groups of Asian American professionals and civic leaders.

But it really didn't feel like there was a citywide, Pan-Asian cultural presence.

And part of Asian Arts Initiative's initial mission was to help foster that voice.

- So as a follow up, you know, how is it that Asian Arts Initiative really became a physical space for the Asian American creatives to gather and the role that that had on kind of, fomenting the creative community?

- Yeah, well, initially, Asian Arts Initiative was, I think, as you may know, a program of the painted bride art center and did programming at the space that the painted bride occupied in old city, but also in partnership with communities and churches and other kinds of spaces throughout the city.

I think that it's impossible to overstate the impact.

You know, that cultural events can have.

Like Asian Americans United's mid autumn festival.

Or many of Asian Arts Initiatives' exhibitions and events that intentionally bridged artistic traditions and ethnic communities, as well as created opportunities for organizing or highlighting different issues facing our communities.

And that's given us a chance to have greater contact and the artists to have greater contact and exposure and also cross-cultural collaborations with each other.

I guess in the early 2000s, Asian Arts Initiative was also faced with sort of the expansion of the Pennsylvania Convention Center.

And the space of the organization at the time, which was being rented, was in the footprint of that expansion.

And so the organization, and we were very fortunate, I think, to be able to really leverage what otherwise felt like a crisis, to be able to create a physical home for the organization that I'm excited to see is still being used as a hub where, you know, a range of artists and community members, and again, issues and ideas are coming into contact with each other and where there are opportunities for collaborations and conversations to really flourish.

- Great, thank you, Gayle.

So when I think about the importance of having these physical spaces for different communities to interact, one of the first things that comes to mind are Asian American owned restaurants.

And Dr. Khan, I know that some of your research involves Asian American food ways.

Can you talk a little bit about the role that food culture plays in having these kinds of cultural exchanges?

- Sure.

And thanks, Rob, for that question.

I teach a course called Asian American Food and I love teaching this course.

Every time that I teach it, it's an eye-opening experience for me.

I would say that there are several things that are really important to keep in mind in terms of Philadelphia and food culture.

When we share food or consume food, you know, the production and consumption, the preparation of food, is a big part of our lives.

But when we share food with those that we love, this is a very intimate way of expressing who we are, right?

And sharing that time and space.

I think for our Asian American communities, the expression of food, whether it's in the home or in a public space, is very critical.

We've seen, in Philadelphia, the growth of many ethnic community businesses.

Philadelphia's just opened its third H Mart.

We see large national chains also offering various kinds of Asian vegetables or spices as well.

What I would add though, is that I think the pandemic has been quite brutal to our communities and so many of these small businesses, the family owned and operated businesses, have been really devastated by this.

I know that there are several organizations in our Asian American community that have really reached out to those in need, particularly our elders, that have suffered from this pandemic.

You know, sort of being trapped in our homes, not being able to access the same kinds of foods.

But we see that food is an important way of reclaiming the narrative of what it means to be Asian American.

There's also a lot of growth in community gardens, where individuals and communities are getting together to grow the vegetables that their heritage showcases, right?

To have the foods for their children that they are used to having.

We see also, you know, the growth in small businesses, selling food, that it's prepared in traditional ways to communities that are interested in purchasing the food and trying it.

So, food is a wonderful way to get acquainted with not only a particular culture or heritage, but the practices of Americans here in Philadelphia as well.

- Great, thank you so much for that, Dr. Khan.

Gayle, I'd like to shift our conversation to the topics of appropriation and appreciation.

I think one of the thorny issues with cultural exchange is that it kind of lends itself to both of those things.

But thinking specifically about the context of Asian Arts Initiative, can you think of some specific examples in Philadelphia's past when arts and culture have been used to build this appreciation between cultures, either within the Asian American movement or with other non-Asian communities?

- Going back a little bit to the history of Asian Arts Initiative and Philadelphia, I think within kind of more formally defined arts community, you know, when Asian Arts Initiative first launched its programming, we started with a festival called Live Traditions, Contemporary Issues, which was kind of a landmark in terms of showcasing a range of artistic disciplines and also different ethnic experiences.

And that was at the painted bride in 1993.

Soon after, maybe in the mid 90s, a small network of Asian American artists of all disciplines, formed a group called Tiger Tiger, which co-curated an exhibition and a chatbook called Half the Other, addressing anti-immigrant legislation sentiments at the time.

And I think that it's always been important to have a space for both preserving and practicing traditional forms of culture and dance and music, especially from people's home countries.

And also the space for being able to fuse those forms, you know, or work in other art forms, like spoken word or film, that may not be specifically identified as Asian, but that are also crucial for the telling of Asian American stories and the creation of Asian American culture and community.

- Thank you so much for sharing those examples.

And I think it really speaks to the power of the arts and the role that it has played in Asian American convening and organizing, but also building bridges with other communities.

In our final minutes, I was hoping that you might both be able to comment on the future of Asian American arts and culture as you see it.

So in both of your work, you deal with the interactions of Asian Americans among each other, as well as the non-Asian community.

And I think arts and culture have been that kind of convening point where we're able to have some very rich conversations.

So given the current conversations that are being had during the pandemic, what do you think the future of arts and culture look like for Asian Americans in Philadelphia and the role that it can play in recovering from the pandemic?

- I think the future is bright.

I think there's lots of talent.

And I think there's lots of curiosity and creativity for our Asian American activists and artists as well.

It's difficult right now.

You know, I think we have to acknowledge that.

The racism is real, particularly post-COVID.

It's not a new racism, it's just reinserted itself.

I also know that the community is fierce and is willing to take on those challenges.

And so, I look forward to more.

- Thank you.

Gayle?

- I would concur.

I mean, I see, even though I'm not in Philadelphia myself anymore, I see on my social media feeds, you know, like amazing collaborations that are happening among artists in Philadelphia.

You know, groups that are forming, projects that are happening, folks who are sharing, kind of sharing artistic practices and kind of training or creating new work with each other.

I also think that, you know, that there's going to continue to be opportunities for work to be created that addresses specific themes or topics.

So, specifically addressing issues of, you know, ongoing racism or race relations.

I think about, just to pull some more past examples, you know, examples like the, I bear witness exhibition that Rob, you helped us to organize.

You know, which brought together South Asian and Muslim artists in dialogue with Japanese experiences of being incarcerated during World War II.

Or a project like Loving Blackness, which was curated by Jaishri Abichandani, exploring conflict as well as solidarity between and among Black and Asian American community members.

And I look forward to, in Philadelphia and beyond, the role that the arts really can continue to play in bringing together people from diverse backgrounds and creating opportunities for conversations and bridges to be created.

- Thank you, Gayle, and thank you, Dr. Khan.

We really appreciate the time and expertise that you've shared with us today.

And we look forward to continuing these conversations online.

Joining us as we continue the conversation, are Kiki Aranita, owner of Poi Dog Sauces, and Catzie Vilayphonh, writer and artist.

Kiki, I'd like to start the conversation with you.

Can you share some of the observations that you have of how native Hawaiian culture has been appropriated or transmitted in American popular culture in the mainland and some of the impact that that has on the people of Hawaii?

- Yes.

So first of all, I'm going into this question.

I am not native Hawaiian.

My family has been in Hawaii for many generations and we have married into many native Hawaiian families, amongst other ethnic groups, but I personally am not native Hawaiian.

And this is a distinction that I have to make every single day of my life, constantly, all the time here on the mainland, even though I own Poi Dog, which was a food truck and then a restaurant and now a brand of sauces that is literally, that literally means mut.

People automatically think that I'm Hawaiian because I'm from Hawaii but that is not the correct way to describe where I'm from or who I am.

So, this is something that I have to say every single time.

And I think it's in large part due to the lack of education here on the mainland about the 50th state and our history.

So in Hawaii, we make the distinction between from Hawaii and Hawaiian.

From Hawaii typically, we use the nomenclature local to refer to people and food and things that are not actually local but are brought to, brought from somewhere else and then subsumed into Hawaii's culture.

So I am constantly promoting the things that came from my ancestors.

The great blend of rich culture and cuisine that was developed over many, many generations of people cooking and eating together.

This is not understood on the mainland.

Here on the mainland, I find that the marketing campaign for pineapples was extremely successful and pineapple is often treated as shorthand for Hawaiian.

And that's something that I have to constantly correct.

- Yeah, thanks for sharing that.

And I know we're gonna delve a little deeper into some of the food culture, in particular in our next question, but I'd like to bring Catzie into the conversation now.

Catzie, your organization, Laos In The House, when I think of arts organizations locally, I think it's really one of the best examples of arts and cultural organization that helps American born generations connect to the roots of their ancestral heritage.

Do you see your work through Laos In The House as a part of cultural maintenance as a act of resistance?

- I would say that, I don't know if I would call it resistance.

More so just maintaining culture.

I think that culture can always be evolving, that culture can always absorb the current environment.

And so, you'll notice that when I do blessed, which is our annual Lao new year dinner, even though there are elements of sitting on the floor and we have traditional ceremonies taking place, like, you know, the Songkran or, you know, the thread tying blessing ceremony, you know, they take place in art galleries or, you know, art institutions and that's not normally where they take place.

It would take place in someone's home, where there's a monk present or in the temple.

And part of this is this bridging of culture between the arts world, which is the, you know, Laos In The House is an arts organization but also the community we reflect, which is the Lao American refugee community.

And, you know, a lot of times, we find that even though we may be the subject on the walls, we're not necessarily the people who are, you know, first invited to see the work.

And so by making sure that these two worlds meet physically, that we are acknowledging that, you know, we're not in Laos anymore.

And that, you know, you don't have to be Lao to celebrate with us.

So I don't see it as resistance.

More so as, you know, sharing culture.

- Yeah, thanks for clarifying that.

And I think, you know, food in particular is such a good way to really share our cultures with broader audiences.

So I'd love to kind of delve into that idea a little bit further.

Kiki, in terms of the presence that Poi Dog, as a restaurant and food truck and now as a sauce brand has played in kind of raising the profile of Hawaiian cuisine in the Philadelphia region.

I know you talked a little bit in your first answer about how what we call Hawaiian isn't necessarily native Hawaiian.

But can you talk a little bit more about the position that Poi Dog has played in having those conversations locally?

- Yes.

When Poi Dog was just a food truck, we started in 2013.

I thought that I was the only person from Hawaii in the Philadelphia area.

I didn't know anybody else.

I didn't really have any like friends from Hawaii.

I was incredibly homesick.

So the original reason why Poi Dog was started was because of my own home sickness.

And as we started going around Philly and serving food and acquiring customers, I found that I was, that our food was allaying the home sickness of many other people as well.

So, through this, through food, I felt like we became a mobile gathering place for people who loved Hawaii, who missed Hawaii, or had some connection, whether tenuous or strong, to the islands.

When we opened the restaurant in 2017, we became a much more permanent gathering place.

And I constantly looked out onto the unfamiliar sea of faces.

People would come up to me saying that, that this reminded them of home.

And sometimes those people weren't even from Hawaii.

When I talked to people who said that our food reminded them of home and they weren't from Hawaii, then we had further conversations about like, all right, so why is our comfort food the same?

Why did you grow up eating spam, even though you grew up on the other side of the world than I did?

Why does this food speak to you?

And it was through that that we positioned ourselves, not just as a replication of comfort food in Hawaii, but rather like an outpost of greater home sickness.

- Yeah, absolutely.

And I think certainly the times that I had been to the restaurant, I definitely felt that vibe.

So thanks for bringing that into the conversation.

And Catzie, I know we talked a little bit about blessed, the Lao new year popup dinners, but I think the conversation around Lao cuisine is something that isn't really happening in a lot of mainstream spaces.

I think it's still a cuisine that a lot of Americans don't necessarily know about.

So I think, you know, to your point earlier, a lot of the work that you've been doing is kind of educating the public about it.

I'm curious though, can you comment on some of the issues where you've seen other Southeast Asian cuisines replicated in ways that felt more like appropriation?

If there are any examples that kind of come to mind?

- [Catzie] I would say that Lao food being not as popular as, say, like Thai food is in part due to the taste of Americans at the time.

So I think that their desire to taste things differently is new now.

But back in like the 80s, when the wave, the first wave of Lao refugees came and they were looking for work and, you know, any of them wanting to open a restaurant or had any culinary skills, either when they tried to open a restaurant or when they went to look for work, you know, the thing was, the popular thing was always Thai food.

You know, and even if they had like a Lao menu, people were just ordering from the Thai side.

And so there was this, I don't wanna call it a stigma, but it was almost like, you know, everybody wants that more, everybody knows that more, and it's easier to explain that other thing more.

So, like, let's just go with what's easy, you know?

And I don't blame any of the people who are just here, who are just trying to look for work.

You kind of just go with the flow and, you know, do what you have to do.

But now, there is like a new movement, which I guess you can call it Lao food movement.

It has its own hashtag and channel.

And it's this recognition of flavors that are from Laos.

And like, are... You know, if you're Lao, you know this comes from Laos.

And even though there are other dishes in other countries that are similar to, or whatever, you just have this feeling that this thing is Lao.

And so, I think what people most recognize Lao food is sticky rice.

And so that's something that we passionately claim as our own.

For other folks, their entry rate into sticky rice might come from Thai food, which then gets complicated because, you know, the Isan section of Thailand, which is the Northeast section right below the Macon river, actually belonged to Laos.

And the people living there, through history, always saw themselves as Lao so even when Thailand took over that section of the country, they, you know, there was a short time where they were deemed second class citizens and the, you know, because they're not truly Thai, but then, you know, another wave of like Thai unity was like, no, you guys are all Thai.

And so, even though the food that they had been making had historically and culturally always been Lao, it started being recognized as Thai.

So when people will claim that sticky rice is Thai food, it makes a lot of Lao people upset because we, you know, we haven't had a chance to offer our food and now our food is being offered but not under us.

And so I think that's where the conversations about education and recognizing, recognizing and knowing, you know, where things belong, not belong, but just where things come from and, you know, being able to appreciate it.

- [Rob] Absolutely.

Thank you for that.

And in our closing minute, can you give us just a quick final thought, Kiki, about the direction that you hope Poi Dog Sauces will continue?

- I was speaking to somebody yesterday who had a very astute insight into why I was doing the sauces.

I didn't know I was going to become a sauce baker at all.

Like not when I closed the restaurant or anything like that.

After I closed the restaurant, people started missing Poi Dog flavors.

So the sauces became a way of allaying home sickness for people who missed Philadelphia food at a very specific time, the time that Poi Dog was in operation.

So Poi Dog became, which so Poi Dog became an operation that then, that now, has grown out of other people's home sickness for our flavors.

So I hope to continue that for now.

I hope that it shows up in places that remind people or harken to the past Poi Dog.

Places that are small and interesting and allow for discovery.

Yeah, that's basically it.

- Great, well thank you both so much for joining us today and we look forward to continuing the conversation online.

I hope this discussion has been engaging and informative.

You can join the conversation too.

Just email us at talkback@whyy.org.

From WHYY, I'm Rob Busher.

Thank you.

(upbeat music) - [Narrator] Major funding for this program was provided by.