1 [ THEME MUSIC ] >> WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEW YORK NOW. "

I'M DAN CLARK.

FOUR MONTHS AGO, GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO WAS INTERVIEWED BEHIND CLOSED DOORS FOR 11 HOURS ON THE MULTIPLE CLAIMS OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT MADE AGAINST HIM THIS YEAR AND NOW, WE FINALLY KNOW WHAT HE SAID.

HUNDREDS OF PAGES OF TRANSCRIPTS WERE RELEASED THIS WEEK FROM THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE WHICH LED THE INVESTIGATION INTO THOSE CLAIMS, AND THERE WAS JUST A LOT TO GET THROUGH HERE.

SO LET'S JUMP RIGHT INTO IT.

WITH ME IN THE STUDIO ARE JON CAMPBELL FROM THE USA TODAY NETWORK, AND KATE LISA FROM JOHNSON NEWSPAPERS.

GLAD TO HAVE YOU BOTH AS ALWAYS.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> SO THIS WAS-- I COULDN'T TELL YOU THE PAGE COUNT OF ALL THEM TOGETHER.

IT WAS TRANSCRIPTS OF CUOMO'S TESTIMONY.

NOT ALL OF THE WOMEN WHO ACCUSED HIM BUT A GOOD CHUNK AND PROBABLY THE MOST HIGH PROFILE ONES.

SO A LOT OF GROUND TO COVER.

I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU GUYS 2 FIRST, KATE, WHAT WAS YOUR TAKE-AWAY HERE?

WHAT STOOD OUT TO YOU.

>> SO DEFINITELY, IT WAS THOUSANDS OF PAGES.

I MEAN, IT WAS A TREMENDOUS RELEASE SO WE DID.

WE LEARNED DETAILS THAT WERE SHOCKING IN SOME WAYS AND IN OTHERS, THEY WERE KIND OF WHEN WE HAD KNOWN.

WE SAW THAT CUOMO REALLY DOUBLED DOWN WITH HIS TACTIC OF DENY, DENY, DENY, AND HE WITH-- WITH PRIVATE ATTORNEY AND WHO WAS LEADING THE QUESTIONING, JUNE KIM, THE INVESTIGATOR, HE WAS REALLY SPARRING BACK AND FORTH WITH HIM A LITTLE BIT.

PICKING APART WORDS.

>> IT WAS TENSE.

>> IT WAS TENSE AND CLEARLY ON THE DEFENSIVE ON SOME THINGS, NITPICKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE GIRLFRIEND MEANT.

IN ONE BREATH, HE TWO-- THE FORMER GOVERNOR WOULD ASSERT HIS EXPERIENCE AS AN ATTORNEY AND LIKE FLEX HIS LEGAL JARGON AND THEN IN THE OTHER, RIGHT, HE WAS DOING THAT, BUT I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGEST TAKE-AWAYS THAT REALLY SHOCKED ME WAS WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT ONE OF HIS FORMER OR TOP AIDE LEE BENTON.

TALKING ABOUT HOW SHE WOULD SIGN THINGS FOR HIM.

REVEALING THAT HE HAD LIED TO REPORTERS IN MAY OF THIS YEAR THAT HE HAD TAKEN THE 3 SEXUAL-- COMPLETED THE SEXUAL HARASSMENT TRAINING.

HE SAID HE HAD COMPLETED IT THIS YEAR IN 2021 TO MR. KIM SAID THAT HE ONLY COMPLETED IT IN 2019 AND THAT STAFF LEE BENTON MAY HAVE AUTO-SIGNED THE ATTESTATION THAT HE COMPLETED IT AND ALSO SHE MIGHT HAVE SIGNED LEGISLATION, EXECUTIVE ORDERS, OTHER DOCUMENTS FOR HIM IN THE PAST.

SO IT WAS REALLY-- TALK ABOUT A BOMBSHELL.

>> YEAH, THE WHOLE THING ABOUT THE SIGNING PART OF IT, ABOUT STEPHANIE BENTON SIGNING BILLS FOR HIM, MAYBE SIGNING EXECUTIVE ORDERS, THINGS LIKE THAT, REALLY TOOK ME BY SURPRISE BUT THEN I HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT AND MAYBE IT'S NOT THAT UNCHARACTERISTIC.

I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT PREVIOUS GOVERNORS DID.

BUT THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT REALLY STOOD OUT TO ME AS WELL.

JON, HOW ABOUT YOU?

WHAT WERE YOUR BIG TAKE-AWAYS HERE?

>> WELL, A COUPLE THINGS.

I MEAN, WE NOT ONLY LEARNED MORE ABOUT THE SEXUAL HARASSMENT COMPLAINTS AND ACCUSATIONS.

WE ALSO LEARNED ABOUT SOME OF THE TOXIC CULTURE ACCUSATIONS WITHIN THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

I MEAN, THERE WAS A VERY PINS AND NEEDLES ATMOSPHERE, THE STATE TROOPER WHO ALLEGES SHE WAS HARASSED BY THE GOVERNOR WENT INTO 4 DETAIL THAT THE GOVERNOR GETS WHAT HE WANTS AND YOU KNOW, HOW HE HAD TO SHOW UP AND THE ELEVATOR, HAD TO BE WAITING FOR HIM WHILE THERE WERE OTHER DETAILING-- DETAILS OF SCREAMING BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, BOTH BY THE GOVERNOR AND TOP MEMBERS OF STAFF AND ALSO WE HEARD FROM THE MEDICAL DOCTOR WHO ADMINISTERED THE GOVERNOR'S NASAL SWAB FOR A COVID TEST ON LIVE TV.

YOU KNOW, SHE SPOKE ABOUT THE MORALE WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH DURING THE PANDEMIC, AND IT WAS-- IT WAS QUITE SHOCKING.

I MEAN, WE KNEW SOME OF THIS.

THERE WAS A MASS EXODUS OF STAFFERS BUT SHE WAS ALSO TOLD THAT THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO COLLABORATE WITH LOCAL DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH WITH THE NEW YORK CITY DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, WHICH WAS-- >> YEAH.

>> I BELIEVE SHE SAID THE DEPARTMENT OF MENTAL HEALTH AT THE TIME WHERE THE PANDEMIC WAS RAGING IN NEW YORK CITY AND YOU KNOW, WE KNEW THAT ANDREW CUOMO AND BILL de BLASIO HAD A POOR WORKING RELATIONSHIP.

I'M NOT SURE WE QUITE KNEW IT WENT TO THAT LEVEL.

>> HOW DID THAT AFFECT THE PANDEMIC?

MY QUESTION IN READING THAT WAS IF THEY REALLY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO WORK WITH THESE LOCAL AGENCIES, WAS THE 5 COORDINATION REALLY THERE IN A WAY THAT REALLY WOULD CREATE A ROBUST RESPONSE TO THIS VIRUS THAT HAS KILLED SO MANY PEOPLE?

>> CLEARLY NOT, TOO, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T-- THEY EVEN SAID THAT SOME PROTOCOLS, THEY FOUND OUT AT PRESS CONFERENCES.

>> YEAH.

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DO THAT.

WHY WOULDN'T YOU HAVE-- FOR PUBLIC SAFETY OR HEALTH, IF THAT'S THE GOAL, HOW IS THAT THE SAFEST PRACTICE?

I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

>> YEAH.

I DIDN'T REALLY EITHER.

THAT WHOLE THING IS JUST ANOTHER CAN OF WORMS.

I DO WANT TO GET TO LIKE SOME OF THE SPECIFICS ABOUT SOME OF THE WOMEN THAT TESTIFIED AS PART OF THIS INVESTIGATION.

FIRST, I'LL GO THROUGH BRITTANY CAMMISSO AND TAKE A FEW MINUTES ON.

THIS I FOUND IT INTERESTING.

PART OF THIS-- INVESTIGATORS WERE ASKING BRITTANY CAMMISSO WHAT SHE WAS WEARING WHEN SHE WENT TO THE MANSION ON THE DAY SHE WAS ALLEGEDLY GROPED BY THE GOVERNOR.

AT FIRST I WAS READING THAT SAYING THIS IS KIND OF RUDE, ASKING WHAT SHE WAS WEARING KID OF A VICTIM BLAMING TYPE OF THING, AND THEN I 6 REALIZED MAYBE IT'S LIKE AN IDENTIFICATION TYPE OF THING.

BECAUSE AS WE KNOW, WITH SHERIFF APPLE'S MISDEMEANOR COMPLAINT THEY USED STATE POLICE AERIAL FOOTAGE WHICH IS SO INTERESTING TO ME.

SO THAT WAS A TAKE-AWAY FOR ME.

THE GOVERNOR, OF COURSE, SAID IN HIS TESTIMONY THAT HE DEFINITELY DID NOT TOUCH BRITTANY CAMMISSO.

HE DIDN'T TOUCH ANYBODY INAPPROPRIATELY IS WHAT HE SAID.

BRITTANY CAMMISSO TESTIFIED AS WELL THAT THE GOVERNOR USED TO SAY INAPPROPRIATE REMARKS TO HER.

AT ONE POINT, HE COMMENTED TO HER SHE WAS WEARING A DRESS, I BELIEVE, OR WEARING PANTS AND HE SAID SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF SHOW SOME LEG OR GOOD TO SEE YOU SHOWING SOME LEGS.

THAT WAS JUST AN INTERESTING PART TO ME.

THE TOXIC CULTURE, THOUGH, JON, I WANT TO GO BACK TO THAT WITH YOU.

SO CHARLOTTE BENNETT TESTIFIED ABOUT THIS AND I THINK THE OTHER WOMEN DID TESTIFY ABOUT THIS AS WELL, BUT THERE'S THIS CULTURE THEY TESTIFIED ON THE SECOND FLOOR WHEN THEY WERE THERE THAT REALLY STOKED THE FLAMES OF THIS BEHAVIOR.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT?

>> YEAH.

ABSOLUTELY.

THE CULTURE ESSENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR WAS IN OFFICE FOR TEN YEARS BY THIS 7 POINT AND YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A WIDESPREAD CULTURE OF FEAR.

THERE WAS A WIDESPREAD CULTURE OF BEING FEARFUL OF ANGERING THE GOVERNOR, ANGERING HIS TOP STAFF.

THERE WAS TALK ABOUT THE WOMEN THAT HE, YOU KNOW, WAS KNOWN-- THAT THE GOVERNOR WAS KNOWN TO PREFER BLONDES.

WE HEARD FROM WOMEN LIKE ANNA LISX WHO WAS A FORMER AIDE OF THE GOVERNOR THAT SHE WAS MOVED FROM ONE SIDE OF THE BUILDING TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BUILDING AND SHE SUSPECTED IT MIGHT BE BECAUSE OF HER LOOKS OR BECAUSE OF HER, YOU KNOW, HOW SHE APPEARED RATHER THAN HER PERFORMANCE.

THAT BOTHERED A LOT OF PEOPLE.

YOU HEAR A LOT FROM THE WOMEN IN THESE STATEMENTS ABOUT HOW THEY FELT BELITTLED OR THEY FELT THEY WERE FEARFUL OF THE-- A GROUP OF AIDES THAT HAD BECOME KNOWN AS THE MEAN GIRLS.

>> YES.

>> YOU GET A BETTER SENSE READING THESE TRANSCRIPTS ABOUT WHY THAT BOTHERED THESE WOMEN SO MUCH AND WHY THEY FELT, YOU KNOW, PROFESSIONALLY LOOKED DOWN UPON BECAUSE OF IT.

>> YEAH.

AND THE MEAN GIRLS THING, THE INVESTIGATORS ASKED THE WOMEN AND I BELIEVE THE 8 GOVERNOR WHETHER THEY HAD HEARD THE TERM MEAN GIRLS AS A REFERENCE, AND I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT IT'S LIKE A PUBLIC THING.

DURING THE 2018 CAMPAIGN, MELISSA DEROSA AND THE GOVERNOR'S TOP AIDES DID FREQUENTLY REFER TO THEMSELVES AS THE MEAN GIRLS ON TWITTER.

[LAUGHTER] IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WAS MADE UP.

I JUST HAVE TO WONDER HOW THIS PLAYED INTO THEIR WORK THERE AND THE ENVIRONMENT THERE.

KATE, 30 SECONDS FOR YOU.

WE HAVE THE ASSEMBLY MAYBE WRAPPING UP ITS REPORT.

DO WE KNOW ANYTHING ELSE AT THIS POINT?

I DON'T.

TELL ME.

>> NO.

I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE THE BIGGEST THING GOING INTO NEXT WEEK, RIGHT?

WE'RE GOING TO BE WAITING TO SEE-- THE MEMBERS OF THE ASSEMBLY JUDICIARY COMMITTEE THAT WERE OVERSEEING THAT IMPEACHMENT PROBE EARLIER THIS YEAR WERE-- ARE GOING TO REVIEW THIS REPORT OF WHAT THEY FOUND.

SO I THINK THAT WILL TELL US EVEN MORE GOING INTO NEXT WEEK AND WE'LL HAVE, I GUESS, EVEN MORE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER ABOUT WHERE THINGS ARE GOING.

>> I'M ON THE EDGE OF MY SEAT IN MY MIND RIGHT NOW.

I'M NOT ON THE EDGE OF MY 9 SEAT BUT METAPHORICALLY, I AM.

[LAUGHTER] WE'LL LEAVE IT THERE.

JON CAMPBELL FROM THE "USA TODAY" NETWORK AND KATE LISA FROM JOHNSON NEWSPAPERS, THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>>> ALL RIGHT.

MOVING ON NOW, THE HOCHUL ADMINISTRATION HAS RELEASED AN UPDATE TO THE STATE'S FINANCIAL PLAN AND THINGS ARE ACTUALLY LOOKING PRETTY GOOD.

THESE UPDATES ARE RELEASED TO MAKE SURE THE BUDGET IS ON TRACK AND APPARENTLY, WE'RE DOING WAY BETTER THAN WE THOUGHT.

NEW YORK BROUGHT IN $4 BILLION MORE IN REVENUE THAN WE EXPECTED BACK IN APRIL WHEN THE STATE BUDGET WAS APPROVED AND THAT'S REALLY, REALLY GOOD NEWS BECAUSE WE DIDN'T KNOW HOW THE PANDEMIC WOULD AFFECT THAT REVENUE.

AT THE SAME TIME, THE HOCHUL ADMINISTRATION SAYS IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO PAD THE STATE'S COFFERS IF WE HIT A RECESSION.

SO A MIXED BAG ON THAT ONE.

AND THE PERSON WITH AN EYE ON ALL OF THIS IS STATE CONTROLLER TOM DINAPOLI.

HE'S THE STATE'S ELECTED MONEY MANAGER.

WE SPOKE THIS WEEK ABOUT THE STATE'S FINANCES, WHAT THEY MEAN FOR AND YOU MORE.

[ THEME MUSIC ] 10 >>> STATE CONTROLLER, TOM DINAPOLI, GLAD TO HAVE YOU BACK.

>> GOOD TO BE BACK WITH YOU, DAN.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

SO THE FINANCIAL UPDATE FROM THE HOCHUL ADMINISTRATION MAKES IT SEEM LIKE WE'RE DOING PRETTY GOOD FOR THE STATE.

WE HAVE ABOUT $4 BILLION IN EXTRA REVENUE COMING IN SINCE THE BUDGET PASSED IN APRIL.

SO IS IT AS GOOD AS IT SOUNDS FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE?

ARE WE ON A GOOD TRACK RIGHT HERE?

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, THE SHORT ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS YES.

THAT'S A COMBINATION OF FACTORS.

CERTAINLY TAX COLLECTIONS HAVE BEEN COMING IN STRONGER THAN ANTICIPATED, PERSONAL INCOME TAX COLLECTION, SALES TAX COLLECTIONS.

THE BIG GAME-CHANGER, THOUGH, DAN, IS THE INFUSION OF FEDERAL MONEY.

THAT CERTAINLY HAS MADE THE BIG DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF BALANCING OUR BUDGET.

FOR NOW, THINGS ARE LOOKING VERY STRONG NOT ONLY FOR THIS YEAR BUT AS YOU KNOW, WE'RE JUST STARTING THE BUDGET PROCESS AND LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS FOR FUTURE YEARS AND BASED ON WHAT 11 WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW, DIVISION OF BUDGET IS REALLY PROJECTING THAT THE TRADITIONAL OUTYEAR BUDGET GAPS THAT WE'RE USED TO FOR SO MANY YEARS, THEY DON'T SEEM TO BE COMING INTO PLAY AT THIS POINT.

WHETHER THAT HOLDS UP, WHO KNOWS?

THAT'S WHY WE KEEP A CLOSE EYE ON REVENUE AND SPENDING.

>> SOUNDS LIKE GOOD NEWS.

SO DOES THIS MEAN THAT WE ARE BACK TO PRE-COVID LEVELS IN TERMS OF REVENUE AND OUR FINANCES IN THE STATE, OR DO WE STILL HAVE KIND OF A LONG ROAD TO GO FOR RECOVERY?

I'M TRYING TO GAUGE IF THIS IS JUST WE'RE GOOD IN THE MOMENT AND WE'RE GOOD IN THE LONG TERM?

>> I WOULD SAY LET'S NOT MINIMIZE THE IMPACT OF THE FEDERAL MONEY AND THE FEDERAL MONEY IS NOT FOREVER.

SO WE HAVE TO KEEP THAT IN MIND.

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOMETHING LIKE SALES TAX, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS A STRONG INDICATOR OF NOT ONLY TAX ACTIVITY BUT CONSUMER CONFIDENCE AND OVERALL ECONOMIC ACTIVITY, WE SEEM TO BE AHEAD OF PRE-PANDEMIC OR AT OR AHEAD OF WHERE WE WERE PRE-PANDEMIC.

YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE OTHER NUMBERS.

LET'S LOOK AT THE EMPLOYMENT NUMBERS.

AGAIN, UNEMPLOYMENT NUMBERS CONTINUE TO GO DOWN WHICH IS GOOD, BUT WE'VE ONLY DRAWN BACK ABOUT 55, 56% OF THE 12 JOBS THAT WERE LOST.

THAT'S A CONCERN.

SO I WOULD SAY MIXED INFORMATION, MORE OF IT IS GOOD THAN BAD.

LOOK, THE BIG FACTOR, THE BIG QUESTION MARK STILL IS, ARE WE REALLY OUT OF IT IN TERMS OF THE PANDEMIC?

YOU KNOW, SHOULD WE GO BACKWARD ON THE NUMBERS RELATED TO COVID AND PULL BACK SOME OF THE OPENING?

YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHERE WE COULD SEE THE ECONOMY START TO GO BACKWARDS AS WELL AND SEE THE TAX REVENUE GO BACKWARDS.

YOU KNOW, I THINK WE STILL HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT WE'RE DOING AND VERY CLOSELY MONITOR WHAT THE TRENDS ARE.

>> YOU KNOW, SPEAKING OF THAT FEDERAL SPENDING THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT, THE FEDERAL INFUSION OF FUNDS IN NEW YORK, THE NEWLY PASSED INFRASTRUCTURE BILL IN CONGRESS HAS SOME MONEY THERE FOR BROADBAND INFRASTRUCTURE.

YOUR OFFICE RELEASED A REPORT ABOUT TWO MONTHS AGO NOW HIGHLIGHTING THE DIGITAL DIVIDE IN NEW YORK.

WE KNOW THAT THIS EXISTS, MORE THAN ONE MILLION HOUSEHOLDS LACK ACCESS TO BROADBAND ACCORDING TO YOUR REPORT.

CAN YOU TELL ME BASED ON THAT REPORT THAT YOU PUT OUT AND NOW WE HAVE THIS MONEY AVAILABLE FROM CONGRESS, HOW SHOULD WE TARGET THAT BROADBAND PROBLEM HERE?

WHERE DOES THE MONEY NEED TO 13 GO TO MAKE IT BETTER.

>> YOU KNOW, FOR OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES THE ISSUE REALLY IS THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND BUILDING IT OUT.

AND ACROSS THE STATE, NOT ONLY THE RURAL COMMUNITIES BUT URBAN AND SUBURBAN COMMUNITIES, HOUSEHOLDS OF LOWER INCOME AND SENIOR HOUSEHOLDS, GENERALLY SPEAKING AS WELL, THAT'S WHERE THERE HAS REALLY BEEN A BIG ISSUE OF ACCESS.

SO YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY TARGETING MORE SUPPORT TO THOSE OF THE LOWER END OF THE ECONOMIC SPECTRUM AND DOING MORE TO BUILD OUT THE PHYSICAL INFRASTRUCTURE FOR OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES, THOSE WOULD BE THE TWO PRIORITY AREAS.

AGAIN, THAT'S WHERE THAT FEDERAL MONEY, AS YOU POINT OUT, IS GOING TO BE VERY HELPFUL FOR OUR ECONOMY TO RECOVER.

CERTAINLY WE LEARNED THE HARD WAY DURING THE PANDEMIC THE IMPORTANCE OF INTERNET ACCESS IS KEY FOR WORK, FOR SCHOOL, YOU ANY, FOR EDUCATION, JUST FOR DAILY LIVING.

SO THIS IS REALLY GREAT NEWS THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE MORE OF AN EMPHASIS AND MORE HELP FROM WASHINGTON.

>> YOU KNOW, BEFORE WE RUN OUT OF TIME, I DO WANT TO GET INTO POLITICS JUST A LITTLE BIT.

IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'RE NOT RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR, WHICH YOU HAD BEEN RUMORED TO 14 MAYBE BE INTERESTED IN EARLIER THIS YEAR, SO YOU'RE NOT RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR AS FAR AS WE KNOW.

I'M WONDERING, DO WE HAVE A FAVORITE IN THE RACE SO FAR?

WE ONLY HAVE A FEW DECLARED CANDIDATES?

IS THERE ANYONE THAT YOU HAVE YOUR EYE ON?

>> WELL, FIRST, I DO WANT TO CLARIFY I AM RUNNING FOR STATE CONTROLLER AGAIN.

>> YES.

>> IT'S THE BEST JOB IN THE STATE.

SO I'M GONNA STAY WITH THAT.

LOOK, ALL THE NAMES OUT THERE ARE PEOPLE I HAVE WORKED WITH AND FRIENDS OF MINE.

CERTAINLY THE TWO LEADING CANDIDATES ARE GOVERNOR HOCHUL AND ATTORNEY GENERAL JAMES.

THEY'RE BOTH FRIENDS AND WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO SEPARATE FROM THE POLITICAL SEASON.

SO AT THIS POINT, I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH BOTH OF THEM AND LOOKING FORWARD TO BEING ON THE DEMOCRATIC TICKET, WHOEVER WILL BE HEADING THAT TICKET, BUT MY FOCUS ON THE POLITICAL FRONT IS MAKING SURE THAT I GET TO SERVE AGAIN AND WE'LL LET THE OTHERS PLAY OUT THEIR OWN RESPECTIVE RACES AND THEIR OWN COMPETITION.

>> YEAH.

IT'S A REALLY INTERESTING TIME IN NEW YORK AND 15 POLITICS ESPECIALLY AMONG DEMOCRATS.

BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE THERE IS THIS ALMOST LIKE-- I DON'T WANT TO SAY THE PARTY IS SPLIT DOWN THE MIDDLE, BUT THERE'S ALMOST A SPLIT BETWEEN PEOPLE THAT ARE ON THE FAR LEFT IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND PEOPLE CONSIDERED MODERATES WHO ARE A LITTLE BIT MORE IN THE MIDDLE.

WHERE DO YOU FALL IN THAT SPECTRUM OF IDEOLOGIES?

THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, OBVIOUSLY, IS A BIG TENT.

I'M WONDERING WHERE YOU FALL IN THAT.

>> HMM.

WELL, I DON'T-- I DON'T WANT TO MAKE LIGHT OF THE QUESTION, BUT I PROBABLY FALL SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE OF MODERATE AND LEFT.

I'M PROBABLY LIKE SOMEWHERE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE THERE WHICH IS WHERE I THINK I'VE ALWAYS BEEN.

BUT YOU'RE IDENTIFYING WHAT IS POTENTIALLY A REAL PROBLEM FOR US.

THE STRENGTH OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS OUR OPENNESS AND HAVING A SENSE OF OPEN COMPETITION.

THE WEAKNESS IS THAT WE OFTEN FIND IT HARD TO BE UNITED.

THAT'S ONE OF THE ISSUES IN WASHINGTON OBVIOUSLY IS DELAYED REALLY ACTING AS QUICKLY AS I WOULD HAVE HOPED ON THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION PROPOSALS.

YOU KNOW, NEW YORK IS A BIG STATE.

WE HAVE A LOT VERY TALENTED 16 PEOPLE.

IT'S NICE TO HAVE OPTIONS.

YOU KNOW, YOU MENTIONED THE GUBERNATORIAL RACE BUT I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE COMPETITION VERY CLEARLY FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL RACE.

>> YES.

>> A LOT OF FOLKS ARE GEARING UP FOR THAT AGAIN, ALL FRIENDS AS FAR AS THE NAMES THAT ARE OUT THERE.

SO YOU KNOW, I'M HOPING THERE WON'T BE MUCH COMPETITION FOR THE CONTROLLER NOMINATION.

AT THE END OF THE DAY AS WE SAW IN THE PRIMARIES WILL CONTINUE IN BE JUNE, WHICH SEEMS TO BE THE PLAN RIGHT NOW, PLENTY OF TIME TO REGROUP BECAUSE I THINK ONE OF THE LESSONS FROM THIS PAST ELECTION, YOU KNOW, I LIVE ON LONG ISLAND, I THINK, AS YOU KNOW, DEMOCRATS SHOULD NOT TAKE FOR GRANTED THE VOTERS OR ASSUME THAT BECAUSE NEW YORK IS SUCH A BLUE STATE THAT DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO WIN ALL THE TIME.

THERE WERE SIGNIFICANT REPUBLICAN GAINS ONLINE, PARTICULARLY IN OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE AS WELL AND THE DEMOCRATS DO NOT UNITE AS WE SAW THROUGH WHO OUR CANDIDATES WILL BE.

WE COULD LOSE AND TO ME, THAT'S THE CONCERN.

WE NEED TO KEEP OUR EYE ON THE BIG PICTURE, WHICH IS THAT DEMOCRATS HAVE SO MUCH MORE IN COMMON THAN THAT WHICH DIVIDES US.

WE SHOULD SPEND A LITTLE LESS TIME ON THOSE DIVISIONS 17 AND I REALLY THINK THE ELECTION RESULTS FOR 2021 ARE A WAKE-UP CALL THAT WE NEED TO GET OUR ACT TOGETHER BECAUSE IF WE DON'T, THE VOTERS ARE GOING TO SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE'RE GOING TO GO WITH THE OTHER PARTY AND I THINK WE NEED TO BE MINDFUL OF THAT.

>> IT'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING REALLY INTERESTING TO WATCH IN NEW YORK POLITICALLY AT LEAST FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN FOLLOWING THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

WE'LL LEAVE IT THERE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR INSIGHT AND YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

STATE CONTROLLER TOM DINAPOLI.

>> THANKS, DAN.

>> SO WE'LL KEEP AN EYE OUT FOR ALL THAT SWITCHING GEARS NOW, DEMOCRATS ARE HOPING TO MOVE A BILL IN NEW YORK TO END WHAT'S CALLED QUALIFIED IMMUNITY.

THAT'S WHAT PROTECTS POLICE OFFICERS FROM LAWSUITS IF THEY DO SOMETHING THAT MIGHT NOT BE LEGAL OTHERWISE.

LIKE USING EXCESSIVE FORCE OR SEARCHING SOMEONE WITHOUT PERMISSION.

NEW YORK CITY HAS ALREADY PASSED A LIMIT ON QUALIFIED IMMUNITY SO NOW IT'S EASIER TO SUE POLICE OFFICERS THERE.

BUT THAT'S NOT THE CASE STATEWIDE.

18 SO DEMOCRATS IN THE LEGISLATURE ARE I TRYING TO PASS LEGISLATION THAT WOULD AFFECT ALL NEW YORKERS.

NOT JUST THOSE IN THE FIVE BOROUGHS, BUT LIKE ALL ISSUES, OPINIONS ON ENDING QUALIFIED IMMUNITY ARE MIXED.

DARRELL CAMP REPORTS.

[ THEME MUSIC ] >> CRIMINAL JUST REFORM HAS BEEN A SOURCE OF DIVISION ACROSS THE COUNTRY IN RECENT YEARS AND AT THE HEART OF THAT DEBATE IS NEW YORK.

IT'S BEEN A MAJOR SOURCE OF DIVISION HERE PITTING DEMOCRATS AGAINST REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS AGAINST EACH OTHER.

THOSE REFORMS ARE THINGS LIKE ENDING CASH BAIL FOR LOWER-LEVEL OFFENSES AND NEW CHANGES TO HELP PROSECUTORS BUILD A CASE AND WHILE THOSE WERE BIG WINS FOR SUPPORTERS OF THOSE MEASURES, THEY'LL ALWAYS TELL YOU THERE'S MORE TO DO IN THE REALM OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE.

THAT CONVERSATION IS ALREADY STARTING AHEAD OF NEXT YEAR'S LEGISLATIVE SESSION AND A KEY FOCUS FOR ADVOCATES IS A BILL THAT WOULD END WHAT'S CALLED QUALIFIED IMMUNITY, OR QI.

THAT'S A DOCTRINE THAT ALLOWS CERTAIN LEGAL PROTECTIONS FOR GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS, LIKE MEMBERS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT, WHEN THEY DO THINGS THAT MAY OTHERWISE BE LEGAL.

IT'S GETTING MORE ATTENTION NOW MORE THAN EVER WHILE THE 19 COUNTRY DEBATES CONSEQUENCES BY USES OF FORCE BY POLICE INCLUDING THE DEATHS OF UNARMED CIVILIANS.

ASSEMBLY MEMBER PAM HUNTER, A DEMOCRAT FROM SYRACUSE, SPONSORS THAT BILL.

SHE SAYS IT ISN'T ABOUT ATTACK INDIVIDUAL OFFICERS BUT HOLDING MUNICIPALITIES AS A WHOLE TO A HIGHER STANDARD.

>> IT IS UNTRUE THAT OFFICERS HAVE EVER HAD TO PAY EVER FOR ANY CONSTITUTIONAL VIOLATION.

THERE'S INDEMNIFICATION ACROSS THE STATE WHERE MUNICIPALITIES HAVE ALWAYS BEEN RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY MISDEEDS FOR OFFICERS.

SO I THINK A LOT OF THE CONVERSATION PERTAINING TO PERSONALLY PAYING OUT-OF-POCKET FOR OFFICERS THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN.

>> FOR SOME, THE ISSUE IS PERSONAL.

THAT'S CASE FOR DARLENE McDAY.

SHE SAYS HER SON, DANTE, DIED FROM BEHIND BARS FROM WHAT WAS REPORTED AS A SUICIDE AFTER HE ALLEGEDLY SUFFERED ABUSE AT THE HAND OF CORRECTION OFFICERS.

McDAY SHE WASN'T TOLD ABOUT THE ALLEGED ABUSE UNTIL SHE GOT A CALL FROM SOMEONE ELSE INCARCERATED AT THE FACILITY.

>> SO HE SAID THAT THEY CALLED FOR MEDICAL ATTENTION BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT MY SON 20 WAS HAVING A SEIZURE.

HE WAS SITTING ON HIS BED NOT REALLY ABLE TO MOVE AND STARING, YOU KNOW, IN-- KIND OF STARING INTO SPACE.

SO SEVERAL OF THE PEOPLE NEXT TO HIM CALLED FOR MEDICAL ATTENTION AND WHEN THE GUARDS WENT INTO THE ROOM, THEY STARTED BEATING HIM.

>> McDAY SAYS THAT SOME OF THE OFFICERS INVOLVED ARE STILL WORKING TO THIS DAY AND HAVEN'T BEEN HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

THAT'S WHY OPPONENTS OF QI ARE LOOKING TO END IT.

SENATE DEPUTY MAJORITY LEADER, MIKE GIANARIS, A DEMOCRAT, SAYS QUALIFIED IMMUNITY CAN MAKE SOME OFFICERS FEEL LIKE THEY'RE ABOVE THE LAW.

>> THERE'S AN UNSPOKEN ARGUMENT BY OPPONENTS OF REFORM AND THAT ARGUMENT THE COST OF PUBLIC SAFETY IS POLICE VIOLENCE.

THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.

THEY DON'T SAY BECAUSE IT SOUNDS RIDICULOUS.

BUT ULTIMATELY, THAT'S THE ARGUMENT IS.

IF YOU WANT TO FEEL SAFE, YOU HAVE TO LET THE POLICE BEAT SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T DESERVE IT.

OR, YOU GOT TO LET THE POLICE KILL SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T DESERVE IT.

BECAUSE GOD, FORBID, THEY FEEL RESTRICTED FROM DOING THAT, THEY MIGHT NOT DO THEIR JOBS THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING.

21 >> BUT SOME IN LAW ENFORCEMENT SAY THE ISSUE OF QUALIFIED IMMUNITY IS NOT AS SIMPLE AS IT SOUNDS.

FOR ALBANY POLICE CHIEF ERIC HAWKINS, WHO IS SOMETIMES AT ODDS WITH CRIMINAL JUSTICE ADVOCATES, HE SEES THE ISSUES FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE CONVERSATION.

>> THE IDEA OF DOING AWAY WITH QUALIFIED IMMUNITY HAS NEGATIVE CONNOTATIONS IN LAW ENFORCE.

IT IS SEEN TAKING AWAY PROTECTIONS THAT OFFICERS HAVE WHEN THEY'RE OUT THERE TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THINGS FOR THE RIGHT REASONS AND THINGS-- A MISTAKE IS MADE OR THINGS GO SIDEWAYS.

SO I IT IS SEEN THAT WAY.

I SEE IT BOTH WAYS.

I SEE WHY THERE'S CONCERN FROM THE COMMUNITY WITH THIS WHOLE IDEA AND YOU KNOW, THE COMMUNITY WANTS ACCOUNTABILITY.

>> HAWKINS DID NOT SAY IF HE WAS FOR OR AGAINST ENDING QUALIFIED IMMUNITY BUT HE DID SAY THAT A CRIT PART OF LAW ENFORCEMENT IS THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE COMMUNITY AND THE LEVEL OF TRUST THAT COMES WITH THAT.

OTHERS AGREE BUT DON'T THINK ENDING QUALIFIED IMMUNITY IS THE RIGHT APPROACH.

SENATE REPUBLICAN LEADER ROB ORTT SAYS THE ISSUE IS POLITICAL AND IT'S JUST ANOTHER STEP IN A SERIES OF ATTACKS ON LAW ENFORCEMENT FROM DEMOCRATS ON THE FAR LEFT.

22 >> THE POLICIES THAT HAVE BEEN ENACTED, SPECIFICALLY AROUND PUBLIC SAFETY AND LOOK NO FURTHER THAN THIS BILL WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT HERE TO END QUALIFIED IMMUNITY IS A DIRECT ATTEMPT AND ATTACK AGAINST OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE NET RESULT OF THAT ATTACK, THE NET RESULT OF THESE POLICY CHANGES HAVE BEEN LESS SAFE COMMUNITIES FOR PEOPLE OF ALL BACKGROUNDS.

>> WHILE DEMOCRATS IN NEW YORK HAVE LED THE CHARGE ON THE STATE'S MOST CONTROVERSIAL CRIMINAL JUSTICE CHANGES, REPUBLICANS HAVE CONSISTENTLY PUSHED BACK, LIKE STATE REPUBLICAN CHAIRMAN NICK LANGWORTHY, WHO SAYS THOSE REFORMS TARGET THE INTEGRITY OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>> THEY PUT THEIR LIVES ON THE LINES EVERY DAY TO KEEP THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK SAFE.

SO FAR WHAT WE SEE IS A BATTERY OF PIECES OF LEGISLATION THAT ESSENTIALLY CHASE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT OF THE BUSINESS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT, THAT WANT TO SACRIFICE THE SAFETY AND SECURITY OF OUR OFFICERS AND THEY WANT TO PUT THE CRIMINALS FIRST.

>> BUT HUNTER, WHO SPONSORS THE BILL TO END QI SAYS THAT'S NOT WHAT THE BILL'S 23 ABOUT.

OFFICERS ARE SUED ALL THE TIME IN NEW YORK OVER CONSTITUTIONAL VIOLATIONS AND THOSE LAWSUITS CAN PAY OUT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

THE BILL, SHE SAYS, IS ABOUT CREATING A UNIFORM STANDARD ACROSS THE BOARD.

>> WE NEED TO MAKE SURE NOT JUST THE HIRING PRACTICES ARE OKAY BUT THE TRAINING THAT'S INVOLVED WITH INTERFACING WITH THE PUBLIC IS WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE SO PEOPLE ARE NOT DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, THAT THERE'S NOT EXCESSIVE FORCE OR REGULAR FORCE HAPPENING OR EVEN IN SOME CASES, SEXUAL ABUSE HAPPENING.

>> FOR SOME, IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT A UNIFORM STANDARD BUT A HIGHER ONE AS WELL.

McDAY, WHOSE SON DIED, SAYS IF THAT WERE THE CASE, THERE MAY HAVE BEEN REPERCUSSIONS FOR THE OFFICERS ALLEGEDLY CONNECTED TO HIS DEATH.

>> I WONDERED WITH MY SON'S CASE, WHY WASN'T ANYONE HELD RESPONSIBLE?

HE WAS OBVIOUSLY BEATEN.

HE WAS OBVIOUSLY TORTURED.

THESE FOUR OFFICERS BASICALLY MADE UP A STORY THAT THEY WENT INTO MY SON'S CELL.

THEY RESPONDED TO A MEDICAL EMERGENCY.

THEY WENT INTO MY SON'S CELL AND THEY TRIED TO MAKE UP A STORY THAT HE DID THIS TO 24 HIMSELF.

>> OTHERS SAY THE STANDARDS FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ARE ALREADY HIGH AND DO ENOUGH TO KEEP THEM ACCOUNTABLE.

ORTT, AGAIN.

>> IF THEY DID SOMETHING AND YOU CAN GET THEM CRIMINALLY, THE POLICE OFFICER IN MINNESOTA WHO KILLED GEORGE FLOYD, NO TWO WAYS ABOUT IT, HE'S GOING TO JAIL.

JUSTICE WAS SERVED.

NO AMOUNT OF ANYTHING IS GOING TO BRING GEORGE FLOYD BACK, BUT JUST IS WAS SERVED.

THE SYSTEM HELD THAT POLICE OFFICER ACCOUNTABLE.

>> THAT BILL IS CURRENTLY IN COMMITTEE IN BOTH HOUSE OF THE STATE LEGISLATURE WITH DEMOCRATS HOPING TO BRING IT TO THE FLOOR FOR A VOTE.

MEANWHILE, PAM HUNTER, THE BILL'S SPONSOR, SAYS THAT IT DOES HAVE A GOOD CHANCE OF BECOMING LAW.

>> THERE IS DEFINITELY CONVERSATIONS WITH LEADERSHIP IN MY HOUSE RELATIVE TO SUPPORT FOR THIS QUALIFIED IMMUNITY BILL.

AS YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, EVEN AT THE SUPREME COURT LEVEL, AT THE PRESIDENT LEVEL THAT THERE'S CONVERSATIONS ABOUT QUALIFIED IMMUNITY.

THIS IS A HARMFUL DOCTRINE AND THERE'S NO BASIS OF LAW FROM THIS.

SO THIS IS NOT JUST A NEW 25 YORK STATE, YOU KNOW, WANTING TO PUSH MORE REFORM.

THIS SOMETHING THAT IS HAVING A CONVERSATION ACROSS THE COUNTRY ABOUT DOING THE RIGHT THING TO PROTECT PEOPLE'S CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

>> FOR "NEW YORK NOW," I'M DARRELL CAMP.

[ THEME MUSIC ] >> SO WE'LL SEE HOW THAT SHAKES OUT WHEN LAWMAKERS RETURN TO ALBANY IN JANUARY FOR THE NEXT LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

WE'LL LEAVE IT THERE FOR THIS WEEK.

THANKS FOR WATCHING THIS WEEK'S "NEW YORK NOW. "

HAVE A GREAT WEEK AND BE WELL.

[ THEME MUSIC ] >>ANNOUNCER: FUNDING FOR "NEW YORK NOW" IS PROVIDED BY WNET.

AND BY THE DOMINIC FERRAIOLI FOUNDATION.