[ MUSIC ] >> David: CUOMO'S COVID SCANDAL, BIDEN'S BAN ON ASSAULT WEAPONS, AND PRISON CLOSINGS IN NEW YORK.

STAY TUNED, IVORY TOWER IS NEXT.

[ MUSIC ] [ MUSIC ] [ MUSIC ] [ MUSIC ] >> David: GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA COLLEGE.

ON OUR PANEL TONIGHT WE HAVE BOB SPITZER FROM SUNY CORTLAND, TARA ROSS FROM ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE, PETER ENNS FROM CORNELL UNIVERSITY, AND LUKE PERRY FROM UTICA COLLEGE.

THE DISPUTE OVER THE UNDERCOUNT OF COVID DEATHS AMONG NURSING HOME RESIDENTS EXPLODED THIS WEEK INTO A MAJOR SCANDAL FOR GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO.

THE FBI AND A U-S ATTORNEY HAVE LAUNCHED AN INVESTIGATION; DEMOCRATIC LEADERS IN THE STATE SENATE ARE MOVING TO STRIP CUOMO OF EMERGENCY POWERS GRANTED WHEN THE COVID CRISIS STARTED A YEAR AGO.

AND ONE ASSEMBLY MEMBER SAYS CUOMO THREATENED TO "DESTROY HIM" UNLESS HE RETRACTED COMMENTS ABOUT THE SCANDAL.

WE'RE STILL IN A COVID CRISIS-SHOULD THE GOVERNOR'S ABILITY TO MAKE AND CHANGE HEALTH POLICY QUICKLY BE REVOKED?

>> YES, IF HE VIOLATES THE PUBLIC TRUST, YOU'LL HAVE TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO SOME DEGREE.

NOW, I DON'T THINK THAT THE GOVERNOR IS GOING TO BE PEOPLE PEACHED OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

THAT'S NOT COMMON.

AND AT THIS POINT DOES NOT SEEM TO BE MERITED.

BUT, THE GOVERNOR HAS THE ABILITY TO BASICALLY SUSPEND ANY LAW IN THE INTEREST OF RESPONDING TO THE PANDEMIC AND CERTAINLY THAT PROVIDES A MEASURE OF THE EXPEDIENCY IN DEALING WITH THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY.

BUT, WHEN FOR PERSONAL AND POLITICAL GAIN, DATA IS WITHHELD ON A VERY SENSITIVE ISSUE, WHEN YOU IT COME TO IMPACT OF THE PANDEMIC ON NURSING HOMES, AND THIS HAS BEEN THE DECISION THAT CUOMO MADE THAT HAS BEEN CONTROVERSIAL AND LATER REVERSED SOME TIME AGO IN TERMS OF THE OVERALL HANDLING OF THAT ISSUE, IT MAKE SENSE TO ME THE LEGISLATURE AND MEMBERS OF THE BOTH PARTIES WILL TRY TO REIGN THE GOVERNOR IN AND HAVE IMPORTANT INPUT IN SHAPING PANDEMIC-RELATED POLICY.

>> YES, WE'RE A YEAR DOWN THE ROAD WITH THIS PANDEMIC.

AND WE KNOW A LOT MORE NOW.

THE IDEA THE GOVERNMENT MUST -- THE GOVERNOR MUST HAVE THESE EMESIS POWERS, I THINK IS -- EMERGENCY POWERS IS LESS SIGNIFICANT.

WE CAN FUNCTION PERFECTLY WELL WITHOUT THE GOVERNOR HAVING THOSE POWERS.

SECONDLY, THE STATE LEGISLATURE SHOULD PROPERLY CONDUCT AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE NURSING HOME COUNTING PROBLEM, AND IT IS NOT JUST THE BOOKKEEPING ACTUARIAL PROBLEM BUT REMEMBER A YEAR AGO CUOMO MADE THE DECISION TO, BECAUSE OF THE FELT NEED OF HOSPITAL BEDS, AT A TIME WHEN CASES WERE RISING DRAMATICALLY, THAT NURSING HOME RESIDENTS WHO WERE IN HOSPITALS WERE THEN MOVED BACK TO NURSING FACILITIES IF THEY WERE STARTING TO STABILIZE, AND THAT UNDOUBTEDLY HELPED TO SPREAD THE PANDEMIC.

NOSth THE ONLY REASON.

I'LL TAKE ISSUE WITH SOMETHING THAT LOCAL STATE ASSEMBLYMAN WILL BARCLAY SAID YESTERDAY IN THE NEWS.

I WAS FRANKLY SHOCKED WHEN HE SAID THAT, CUOMO EXECUTIVE ORDER CAUCASUSED 15,000 PEOPLE TO DIE.

THAT IS NOT TRUE.

CERTAINLY, SOME NUMBER OF THOSE PEOPLE, NURSING HOGUE PEOPLE DIED HOME PEOPLE DIED AS A RESULT OF THE DECISION MADE A YEAR AGO BUT NOT ALL.

THAT'S JUST AN UN IRRESPONSIBLE STATEMENT.

>> WELL, IS THE LEGISLATURE -- IS THE LEGISLATOR WITH ALL OF THE BACK AND FORTH AND ANY LEGISLATIVE DECISION MAKING, CAPABLE OF MAKING THIS QUICK DECISIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE TO MAKE IN A HEALTH CRISIS?

>> I MEAN, I THINK HE'S ON TO SOMETHING HERE WHERE WE MAY BE IN A POINT, WHERE WE DON'T NEED QUITE A QUICK DECISION MAKING.

AND, I ACTUALLY DON'T THINK THAT THE -- I DON'T THINK THE ISSUE IS WHETHER WE REMOVE THE EMERGENCY POWERS TO ME I THINK WE NEED AN INVESTIGATION, AND THE QUESTION IS, IF DEATHS IN NURSING HOMES HAD NOT BUN UNDERCOUNTED.

WE NOW KNOW THE TRUE NUMBERS.

IF THEY HAD NOT BEEN UNDER COUNTED, WOULD A DIFFERENT DECISION HAVE BEEN MADE ABOUT IF YOU HAD TESTED POSITIVE IN A HOSPITAL, WOULD YOU GO BACK TO A NURSING HOME?

WOULD A DIFFERENT DECISION HAVE BEEN MADE?

BUT IT IS GOING TO TAKE TIME TO FIGURE THAT OUT.

AND SORT OF RUSHING TO EXTREME NUMBERS LIKE BOB MENTIONED HAS BEEN DONE, THAT'S NOT AT ALL HELPFUL.

>> THE OTHER THING THAT REALLY SURPRISES ME, THERE'S BEEN IMMENSE CRITICISM OF MELISSA DEROSA WHO IS A CUOMO AIDE OF HER SAYING, THAT NUMBERS WERE WITHHELD BECAUSE TRUMP HAD AND DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WAS POLITICALIZING THE COVID RESPONSE.

AND OF COURSE, SHOULD NOT WITHHOLD NUMBERS.

BUT, THE CONCERN OF THE POLITICALIZATION COMING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WITH ABSOLUTELY REAL.

WHEN CUOMO WAS SAYING, NEW YORK WAS AN URGENT NEED OF FEDERAL HELP, TO SAVE LIVES, TRUMP'S RESPONSE WAS, THE GOVERNORS BETTER BE NICE.

HE ABSOLUTELY POLITICALIZED THIS.

SO REPUBLICANNING THE CONTEXT, AND HOW -- REMEMBERING THE CONTEXT AND HOW CHALLENGING THOSE DECISIONS WERE IS GOING TO BE VERY IMPORTANT TO ANY DECISIONS AS THEY UNFOLD.

>> TARA?

>> YOU KNOW, ABSOLUTELY THERE SHOULD BE AN INVESTIGATION BUT I ALSO THINK WE NEED TO, AS HAS BEEN POINTED OUT, WE ALSO NEED TO REMEMBER THE CONTEXT AND THE TIME AND WHAT WAS GOING ON.

YOU KNOW, YES, IT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHETHER OR NOT -- HOW THE EXTENT UNDERCOUNTING WAS.

BUT, EVEN WITH THE INVESTIGATION, ARE WE REALLY GOING TO BE ABLE TO TRULY SAY THAT AN INDIVIDUAL'S GRANDPARENT OR PARENT DIED BECAUSE THEY -- BECAUSE OTHER PATIENTS WENT FROM HOSPITAL BACK TO NURSING HOME WITH COVID WHEN WE KNOW THAT, THOSE FIRST COUPLE OF MONTHS WERE SO UNCERTAIN, WHAT NEEDED TO BE DONE WAS CHANGING.

YOU KNOW, ACCESS TO PPE, ET CETERA, WAS NOT GREAT.

WE KNOW THAT PEOPLE COMING INTO THE NURSING HOMES, STAFF WITH COVID, WE KNOW THAT THEY WERE GETTING COVID AND THEN COMING TO WORK UNTIL THEY KNEW THEY HAD COVID.

SO HOW ARE YOU REALLY GOING TO BE SPECIFICALLY ABLE TO SAY, THAT SOMEONE'S LOVED ONE DIED BECAUSE PEOPLE WENT FROM THE HOSPITAL TO THE NURSING HOME WITH COVID OR BY PERSON.

I DON'T THINK WE'RE EVER REALLY GOING TO BE TO ABLE TO SAY.

SO YES, THERE NEEDS TO BE AN INVESTIGATION BUT WE NEED TO BE VERY CLEAR, WHAT CAN AND CANNOT COME OUT OF THIS INVESTIGATION.

>> ON THE OTHER SIDE, LOOKING AT THE GOVERNOR'S EMERGENCY POWERS THAT WERE GIVEN TO THE GOVERNOR, YES, THEY NEED TO BE REIGNED IN, BUT, I ALSO THINK THEY NEED TO BE REIGNED IN WITH AN EYE TO FACT THAT SHOULD NUMBERS BEGIN TO SPIKE, KNOWING HOW SLOWLY SOMETIMES NEW YORK LEGISLATURE MOVES, DO WE REALLY WANT TO COMPLETELY HAMSTRING THE GOVERNOR?

REIGN HIM IN, YES.

BUT I DON'T THINK WE WANT TO TOTALLY TAKE AWAY HIS ABILITY TO RESPOND QUICKLY TO THE EMERGING SITUATION.

>> ANDREW CUOMO HE NEEDS TO LEARN THE LESSON THAT HE HAS NOT LEARNED YET THAT ANYTHING THAT WILL COME OUT ULTIMATELY MUST COME OUT IMMEDIATELY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> HE CERTAINLY -- >> I THINK THE CAUSAL LINK, MAY BE DIFFICULT TO TERM BUT INTUITIVELY AND THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO IS PARENTS AND GRAND PARENTS IN NURSING HOMES AND THE LAST THING THEY WANT ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE TESTED POSITIVE IN THOSE HOMES SO INHERENTLY IT IS CONTROVERSIAL.

AND THE PETER'S POINT, I'M SURPRISED THE GOVERNOR CUOMO IS SCARED OF GETTING ROLLED BY TRUMP.

HE HANDLED WITH TRUMP FOR OVER A YEAR SO HE LIKES TO PORTRAY HIP SELF AS THE TOUGH GUY WITH THICK SKIN BUT, HANDLING THE SITUATION IN THE QUAY HE DID SUGGESTS THAT HE WAS WORRIED ABOUT THE BACKLASH.

YOU CAN ARGUE THAT'S ON BEHALF OF NEW YORK BUT YOU COULD ALSO ARGUE THAT HE WROTE A BOOK ON THIS TOPIC AND DOESN'T WANT TO LIFT THAT SO THAT SURPRISED MAE BIT.

>> I'VE GOT A QUESTION, BOB, YOU SAID UNDOUBTEDLY THE ORDER THAT SENT PEOPLE BACK TO NURSING HOMES FROM HOSPITALS UNDOUBTEDLY CAUSED DEATHS AND THERE'S ONE POINT THAT I HAVE NOT REALLY SEEN ADDRESSED AND I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER HERE, BUT, PRESUMABLY, IF YOU HAVE BEEN RELEASED FROM THE HOSPITAL, YOU'RE NO LONGER CONTAGIOUS.

WERE HOSPITALS RELEASING PEOPLE WHO WERE STILL CONTAGIOUS AND IF YOU WENT INTO THE HOSPITAL FROM NURSING HOME, YOU OBVIOUSLY ALREADY HAD COVID.

>> WELL, AS I RECALL READING ABOUT THIS, WHEN NEWEST NURSING HOME PATIENTS NON-PROFIT THE HOSPITAL AND BECAME STABLE, AS THAT IS THEY WERE NO LONGER IN DANGER OF DYING AND RECOVERING BECAUSE THE RECOVERY PERIOD WAS A NUMBER OF DAYS, IT WAS AT THAT POINT THAT NURSING HOME RESIDENTS IN HOSPITALS WERE MOVED BACK TO -- SORRY, MOVED BACK TO NURSING HOMES.

SO THAT WAS THE SPREAD ISSUE.

ANOTHER POINT, SPREADING MUCH, SPREADING HAS OCCURRED NURSING HOMEs BECAUSE YOU HAVE MANY EMPLOYEES WHO WORK AT MULTIPLE NURSING HOMES AND IN THE EARLY DAY, THEY DID NOT HAVE ADEQUATE PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT WHICH HARMED THEM AND SPREAD THE VIRUS.

>> YES, WE SHOULD REMEMBER THAT THE WORKERS IN NURSING HOME HAVE BEEN BEARING A LOT OF THE BRUNT OF THIS ENTIRE SITUATION AS WELL.

NOW, IT HAS BEEN THREE YEARS SINCE A SCHOOL SHOOTER KILLED 17 PEOPLE IN PARK LAND, FLORIDA.

PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS NOW CALLED ON CONGRESS TO PASS WHAT HE CALLS "COMMON SENSE" GUN LAWS- INCLUDING BANNING ASSAULT WEAPONS AND REQUIRING UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS.

WE'VE BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD BEFORE.

AND WE'VE EXPERIENCED PARKLAND, AND SANDY HOOK, AND VIRGINIA TECH AND SO MANY OTHERS.

IS THERE ANY REALISTIC CHANCE THAT STRONGER GUN CONTROL WILL BECOME LAW?

>> WELL, ON THE CURRENT POLITICAL CONTEXT IN CONGRESS, IT WILL NOT BE AN EASY TASK.

BOTH HOUSES OF CONGRESS ARE CLOSELY DIVIDED BETWEEN THE PARTIES AS EVERYBODY KNOWS AND CONGRESS HAS A HUGE AGENDA POLICY ITEMS TO GET TO BUT OF THE FOUR PROPOSALS THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN SP PUTTING FORWARD, I THINK THE ONE WITH WITH THE GREATEST LIKELIHOOD OF SUCCESS BY FAR IS UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS.

ROUGHLY 20 PERCENT OF PERCENT OF ALL GUN SALES IN MECK OCCUR WITHOUT ANY BACKGROUND CHECK AND 90% OF AMERICANS AND OVER 08% OF ALL GUN OWNERS BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD HAVE UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS.

THAT WAS A NO BRAIN.

THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES PASSES THAT MEASURE INTO 2019.

LE THE AS A RESULT WEAPONS BAN A VERY HEAVY LIFT BY COME PARSON, CONTROVERSIAL AND THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE WE'RE GOING TO SEE ANYWHERE NEAR ENACTMENT ALTHOUGH THAT IDEA HAS BEEN PUSHED A NUMBER OF TIMES SUNS THE ORIGINAL FEDERAL ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN LAPSED IN 2004.

THERE IS ALSO A PROPOSAL TO LIMIT HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES, BULLET MAGAZINE, THOSE HOLDING MORE THAN TEN ROUNDS.

THAT SHOULD ALSO BE A NO BRAINER BECAUSE, IT IS HARD TO MAKE A CASE THAT CIVILIANS SHOULD BE ABLE TO OWN FREE AND CLEAR, LARGE CAPACITY MAGAZINES.

WHY DO YOU NEED A 30-ROUND MAGAZINE, A 50-ROUND MAGAZINE, A 100-ROUND MAGAZINE?

THE FINAL PIECE WAS TO ELIMINATE LEGAL IMMUNITY FOR THAT.

CONGRESS I ELIMINATED THAT BACK IN 2005 THAT WAS A MAJOR BOONDOGGLE FOR THE GUN INDUSTRY, IN RA'S HIGHEST PRIORITY AND THAT'S A COMPLEX PIECE OF LEGISLATION AND THAT I THINK IS ALSO GOING BE VERY HEAVY LIFT GENTLEMAN.

>> YOU KNOW, IT IS INTERESTING THAT, PRESIDENT BIDEN OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A BIG PART, THE ANTI-GUN LOBBY WAS A BIG PART OF HIS SUPPORT GROUP, AND SO, PART OF THIS IS RESPONDING TO HIS SUPPORTERS, THOSE WHO HELPED TO GET HIM ELECTED BUT THE REALITY IS, THAT TAKE THE ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN.

IT HAS BEEN SHOWN THAT, THE ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN WHEN IT DID EXIST, DID NOT REALLY DECREASE THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE GETTING SHOT, AND SO, THAT'S THE FIRST ARGUMENT THAT GROUPS LIKE THE NRA MAKE IS THAT YOU HAD AN ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN AND YOU DID NOT REALLY ACHIEVE WHAT YOU SAID IT WOULD ACHIEVE THEN SO WHY GO BACK DOWN THAT ROAD.

ANOTHER THING THAT I ALSO THINK PRESIDENT BIDEN IS GOING TO HAVE TO FACE, IS THAT, MANY PEOPLE ARGUE THAT, OKAY, THE HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES, THAT IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU HAVE TEN ROUNDS OR 30 ROUNDS, YOU SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE THE GUN, AND THAT'S IT.

IT SHOULDN'T MATTER HOW MANY ROUND YOU HAVE.

ONE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT BOB DIDN'T MENTION THAT I'M INTERESTED TO SEE CAN GET PASSED IS, THE SHUTDOWN OF GHOST GUN SALES.

AND I FOUND THAT INTERESTING THAT THOSE GHOST GUN SALES WHICH ARE BASICALLY GUN KITS, THOSE NUMBER, THE PURCHASE OF THOSE, THE NUMBERS HAVE RISEN DRAMATICALLY AND THAT TO ME, I WOULD AGREE WITH BOB IN THIS SENSE, SHOULD BE A NO BRAINER.

THAT, WHY DO PEOPLE NEED, IF THEY DESPERATELY NEED A GUN, GO TO A GUN STORE WHERE YOU CAN HOPEFULLY HAVE A BACKGROUND CHECK AND PURCHASE THE GUN.

WHY DO YOU NEED A KIT TO MAKE A GUN UNLESS YOU HAVE SOME SORT OF NEGATIVE REASON FOR THAT GUN.

SO, HOPEFULLY, THAT IS ONE AREA WHERE THERE WILL BE SOME AGREEMENT.

>> AND THAT RAISES AN INTERESTING POINT AND ALSO NOW O HERE ABOUT 3D PRINTED GUNS THAT SEEMS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN MAKE ONE THAT WAY.

BUT APPARENTLY, YOU CAN.

ARE THE PROPOSALS, MAYBE HAVE THEY GONE FAR ENOUGH?

THEY HAVEN'T INCLUDED THOSE.

>> I THINK, LEGISLATORS, PARTICULARLY ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE, ARE PROBABLY BALANCING WHAT THEY WANT WITH WHAT THEY THINK IS POSSIBLE.

AND, ONE VARIABLE I THINK IS INTERESTING, IS THE WITH THE SENATE SPLIT 50-50 IN 2022, I'M INTERESTED TO SEE HOW PARTICULARLY REPUBLICAN SENATORS MIGHT BE INCLINED TO VOTE FOR GUN CONTROL LEGISLATION.

I THINK WE CAN PRESUME ALL 50 OR JUST ABOUT ALL 50 DEMOCRATS WILL BE ON BOARD.

SO THE QUESTION IS HOW DO YOU GET TEN MORE, AND YOU LOOK AT THE SENATE LEGISLATIVE MAP.

THE REPUBLICANS 20 SEATS, THE DEMOCRATS HAVE TO DEFEND 14, THE GEOGRAPHY OF IT IS FAVORABLE FOR DEMOCRATS.

SO A LOT OF THE KEY STATES ARE PROBABLY GOING TO BE THESE MID-WESTERN STATES THAT HAVE GONE BACK AND FORTH IN THE LAST COUPLE OF PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS.

OHIO, PENNSYLVANIA, WISCONSIN, SO I'M WONDERING IF YOU COUPLE THE FOUR RETIREMENTS UPCOMING RETIREMENT ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, WITH THESE SWING STATES IN PLAY, IF THERE MIGHT BE INCENTIVE FOR -- TO GET TO THAT NUMBER OF TEN REPUBLICANS TO VOTE FOR A BASIC GUN CONTROL POLICY LIKE UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS, BECAUSE, THAT WOULDN'T HELP REPUBLICAN SENATORS PARTICULARLY APPEAL TO THE SUBURBS AND NOT LOOK TO IDEOLOGICALS.

SO I'LL BE WATCHING HOW THAT UNFOLDS IN RELATION SO THIS.

>> SO THERE MIGHT BE A WINDOW, IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

YOU KNOW, PETER, COUPLE OF -- BOTH TARA AND BOB MENTIONED THE NRA AND OF COURSE THE NRA TODAY IS NOT THE NRA OF FIVE YEARS AGO.

YOU SEE ANY POSSIBILITY THAT THE WEAKENING OF THE N PRIME MINISTER A MIGHT HELP SOMETHING GET THROUGH?

>> WELL, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I'M DEFINITELY LOOKING AT.

BECAUSE THIS IS A STORY WE OFTEN HEAR FROM THOSE WHO SUPPORT GUN CONTROL.

AND I THINK, THESE MEASURES HAVE BEEN CALLED COMMON SENSE GUN CONTROL AND I THINK THEY ARE COMMON SENSE.

I THINK THEY SHOULD BE PASSED BUT WE OFTEN HEAR IS, THE PUBLIC WANTS GUN CONTROL, AND, ACCORDING TO SOME POLLS WE CAN SEE EVIDENCE OF THAT.

BUT THEN, THE STORY GOES ON FROM ADVOCATES THAT IT IS THE STRENGTH OF THE NRA THAT IS PREVENTING THESE GUN CONTROL MEASURES FROM PASSING.

SO THE NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION IS BANKRUPT.

IT IS MIRED IN CONTROVERSY.

AND SO IF IT DOESN'T PASS, IT REALLY WILL OFFER A CHALLENGE TO THIS NARRATIVE THAT HAS BEEN REALLY FOR MORE THAN A DECADE, THE NRA IS CALLING THE SHOTS.

AND THEN I THINK WE'RE GOING TO LEARN HOW MUCH THAT IS TAKING AND WHAT THAT IMPLIES IS, IF IT HASN'T BEEN THE NRA, JUST BEEN PUBLIC OPINION, NOT IN SUPPORT OF THESE CHANGES, OR THE MESSAGING HAS NOT BEEN RIGHT, THAT THOSE ON THE SIDE OF GUN CONTROL MAY HAVE BEEN PLACING A LOT OF ENERGY AGAINST THE TARGET THAT WASN'T REALLY DOING WHAT THEY THOUGHT IT WAS.

>> I WOULD PARSE PETE AREAS POINT INTO WHAT DIFFERENT WAY.

YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ABOUT WEAKENED POSITION OF THE NRA.

THEY ARE A HURT ORGANIZATION INTO A GREAT AGREEMENT THEY ONLY HAVE THEMSELVES TO BLAME BUT YOU STILL HAVE OUT IN THE COUNTRY, STRONG ACTIVIST BASE OF GUN OWNERS, THAT OF COURSE THEY HAVE BEEN THE BACK BONE OF NRA BUT THE INTERESTING QUESTION IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE ORGANIZING ENTITY AT THE TOP, THE NRA, IS WEAKENED, WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT BASE.

AND THERE IS STILL OUT THERE AND THEY STILL CARE ABOUT THIS ISSUE AND I CAN SEE THEM BEING MOTIVATED TO SOME DEGREE ON THEIR OWN BY TWO THINGS: ONE, IS OF COURSE THE EXISTENCE OF NEW GUN CONTROL PROPOSALS, AND SECONDLY, THIS SORT OF HYPER MOBILIZATION OF THE FAR RIGHT THAT WE HAVE SEEN IN RECENT MONTHS, AND OF COURSE, IT WAS EVIDENCED IN THE MOST EXTREME FORM IN THE WASHINGTON RIOTS ON JANUARY 6.

AND THOSE PEOPLE ARE STILL OUT THERE AND THEY ARE STILL WORRIED ABOUT PEOPLE COMING TO TAKE THEIR GUNS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.

AND THEY MIGHT BE ACTIVATABLE AND MAKE LIFE MISERABLE FOR SWING MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN BOTH HOUSES.

I MEAN THAT TO ME WILL BE INTERESTING KIND OF EVIDENCE OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

>> AND THAT'S -- I AGREE WITH YOU, BOB, BUT THAT'S NOT THE STANDARD NARRATIVE I HEAR.

I DON'T HEAR, THERE IS A STRONG BASE THAT REALLY CARES ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

I HEAR THE BASE ACTUALLY WANTS -- IS OKAY WITH SOME RESTRICTIONS OR SOME SENSE OF -- SENSIBLE REGULATION.

AND IT IS THE NRA AS A LEGAL ORGANIZATION CALLING THE SHOTS.

SO THAT'S A DISTINCTION THAT I THINK THAT WE'LL SEE.

>> OKAY.

NOW, NEW YORK STATE IS MOVING AHEAD WITH PLANS TO CLOSE IF WATERTOWN CORRECTIONAL FACILITY AND TWO OTHER PRISON.

BY THE END OF HE NEXT MONTH.

THE STATE SAYS THE MOVE WILL SAVE ALMOST $90 MILLION, ELIMINATE 2700 PRISON BEDS AND AFFECT ABOUT A THOUSAND STAFFERS.

SO, THE STAFFER WOULD BE OFFERED JOBS ELSEWHERE IN THE PRISON SYSTEM.

NEW YORK'S PRISON POPULATION HAS FALLEN SHARPLY DURING GOVERNOR CUOMO'S TENURE AND THE GOVERNOR WANTS THE AUTHORITY TO MOVE QUICKLY TO CLOSE EVEN MORE FACILITY.

SO, SHOULD, TARA, SHOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT HE GETS AND SHOULD NEW YORK MOVE QUICKLY TO CLOSE ADDITIONAL PRISONS?

>> >> YES, AND NO.

IN THEORY, GIVING HIM ABILITY TO KOS PRISONS QUICKLY, THE SOUNDS WONDERFUL.

CLEARLY TESTIFY ONE OF HIS CAMPAIGN PROMISES AND SOMETHING A PROJECT OF HIS SINCE HE BECAME GOVERNOR.

SO, IN THEORY THAT SOUNDS GREAT.

BUT, THERE IS THE REAL THAT I WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC.

THERE IS THE REALITY THAT, WHEN YOU MOVE PRISONERS FROM FACILITIES THAT MAYBE ARE NOT UP TO CAPACITY, TO AN INCREASED THE CAPACITY AT OTHER FACILITIES THE, YOU DO TYPICALLY INCREASE PROBLEMS WITHIN THE PRISONS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT QUOTE UNQUOTE OVERCROWDED, IT IS JUST COMMON SENSE THAT THE MORE PEOPLE THAT YOU HAVE, YOU GO FROM ONE PERSON IN A CELL TO TWO PEOPLE IN A CELL, YOU'LL HAVE MORE INTERACTION AND MORE PROBLEMS.

THERE IS ALSO THE ISSUE OF COVID-19, AND IT IS RUNNING RAMPANT IN THESE PRISONS SO SHOULD THE GOVERNOR MOVE QUICKLY ON CLOSING MORE PRISONS?

NO, I DON'T THINK SO.

NOT RIGHT NOW.

SHOULD THESE PRISONS GO AHEAD AND BE CLOSE, YES, THEY SHOULD.

THIS HAS BEEN PART OF THE PLAN.

THIS WILL SADLY, BAD TIMING IN TERMS OF ANNOUNCEMENT.

IT WAS ANNOUNCED BEFORE THE HOLIDAYS, BUT, YOU YOU KNOW, BY THE TIME ALL OF THIS MOVEMENT IS DONE, WE'LL BE CLOSE TO THE END OF THIS YEAR.

YES, THESE PRISONS SHOULD GO AHEAD AND BE CLOSED BUT NO FURTHER, NOT AT LEAST DURING THE PANDEMIC.

>> >> I WOULD ADDED THAT I THINK IS A POTENTIAL SOLUTION AS THE VACCINE BECOMES MORE AVAILABLE IS PRIORITIZING THOSE WHO ARE IN JAILS AND PRISON AND THEN OF COURSE, CORRECTIONAL STAFF, AND THOSE WORKING IN PRISONS.

PRIORITIZE THEM BOTH GROUPS, WITH THE VACCINE.

AND THOSE WORKING IN PRISONS ARE GETTING THE PRIORITIZATION.

AND SO, BASICALLY, FOR SAFETY, AND THE SAFETY OF ALL, DO THE VACCINATIONS, AND THEN I THINK THAT ALLOWS THIS ACCELERATED TIME LINE.

>> WHAT ABOUT, LUKE, THE STAFFERS THAT WORK THERE, THEY ARE OUT OF A JOB OR AT LEAST OUT OF A JOB WHERE THEY ARE USED TO GOING TO WORK.

DOES THE STATE HAVE SOME RESPONSIBILITY TO THEM?

I MEAN, WHAT ABOUT THE COMMUNITY IMPACT?

>> I THINK RETRAINING PROGRAMS WOULD BE A VITAL PIECE THERE.

CERTAINLY UPSTATE NEW YORK, PRISONS ARE MAJOR SOURCE OF EMPLOYMENT FOR SMALL TOWNS SO IF THEY GO AWAY, THAT'S GOING TO HAVE SERIOUS IMPACTS ACROSS THE BOARD FOR THESE COMMUNITIES.

AND AT THE SAME TIME, THAT OF COURSE IS NO ARGUMENT FOR CONTINUING TO INCARCERATE PEOPLE AT AN EXCEPTIONALLY HIGH RATE EVEN THOUGH THE PRISON POPULATION IN THE STATE HAS BEEN REDUCED BY 42% OVER TEN YEARS, AND NEW YORK INCARCERATION RAITT RATE IS AMONG THE LOWEST BY STATE AND THE COUNTRY.

OUR STATE STILL INCARCERATES MORE PEOPLE THAN NEARLY EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

SO IT REMAIN AS SERIOUS PROBLEM THAT NEEDS TO BE HANDLED IN A SENSITIVE AND MULTI-FACETED WAY TO TAKE ALL OF THE THING INTO CONSIDERATION INTO ACCOUNT.

>> AND IT JUST IS NOT SOUND PUBLIC POLICY TO KEEP PRISONS OPEN BASED ON THE ARGUMENT THAT PEOPLE WHO STAFF THE PRISONS NEED JOBS.

I MEAN, THAT TO ME IS JUST A DEAD END ARGUMENT.

AGAIN, THIS IS WHERE THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO STEP IN, AND CAN BE HELPFUL, TO PROVIDE NEW EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES IF FOR LOCALITIES.

>> OKAY.

>> AND -- >> BE WORK I'LL STOP YOU RIGHT THERE.

I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO YOU THOUGH BECAUSE, IT IS TIME FOR As AND FS AND WE'D LIKE TO HEAR YOUR F. >> YES, I'M GIVING AN F TO MY HOME INSTITUTION OF SUNY CORTLAND SPECIFICALLY TO THOSE MISCREANT STUDENTS WHO GATHERED IN PARTIES, WITH THE RESULT THAT THE VIRUS HAS BEEN SPREADING ON OUR CAMPUS.

THIS PAST WEEK, A HOUSE HAD OVER NEARLY 100 STUDENTS IN IT.

THE POLICE RAIDED THE HOUSE.

MOST STUDENTS MANAGED TO AVOID BEING ARRESTED, BUT, THIS IS UTTERLY IR IRRESPONSIBLE BY SUNY CORTLAND STUDENTS AND THEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES.

>> TARA.

>> I'M GIVING AN F TO THE MANY CHAR CLASS RAKE MATTIC AND PENTECOSTAL MINISTERS THAT CALL THEMSELVES PROPHETS AND CONTINUE TO DO INTERNET VIDEOS AND BLOGS, BASICALLY SAYING THAT THEY HAVE HAD VISIONS IN WHICH TRUMP WILL BE RESTORED TO POWER SOON, AND THAT "IT IS GOD'S WILL FOR TRUMP TO BE IN THE WHITE HOUSE, AND A MIRACULOUS REVERSAL IS."

EVEN MANY FELLOW CHARISMATIC AND PENTECOSTAL MINISTERS ARE BASICALLY SAY SAYING THEY ARE DELUSIONAL.

>> OKAY.

PETER, YOUR F. >> >> 33 STATES ARE RIGHT NOW WORKING TO PASS MORE THAN 15 BILLS THAT WOULD MAKE IT -- 165 BILLS THAT WOULD MAKE IT HARDER TO FOUR, MORE THAN FOUR TIMES THE VOTING RESTRICTION LAWS LAST YEAR.

MY F TO THE LEGISLATORS LOOKING TO RESTRICT VOTING AND DEMOCRACY IN THIS WAY.

>> AND LUKE.

>> TO MARK ZUCKERBERG FOR BRIEFLY CUTTING OFF ALL ACCESS TO NEWS ON FACEBOOK IN AUSTRALIA, THIS IS IN RESPONSE TO A NEW BILL THAT REQUIRES THE SMALL FEE FOR FACEBOOK TO LINK NEWS.

IN AN EFFORT TO HELP STRUGGLING LOCAL NEWS ORGANIZATIONS, WHO LOST AD REVENUE TO SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS.

>> NOW WE'LL TURN TO THE As, BOB SPITZER.

>> AN A TO Dr. HASSAN GOCAL WHO WAS TRAINED AT UPSTATE MEDICAL UNIVERSITY HERE IN SYRACUSE.

AND WHO WAS GIVING OUT A COVID SHOTS IN TEXAS, BUT HE HAD 11 SHOTS AND NOBODY TO GIVE THEM TO, SO HE FRANTICALLY SEARCHED AROUND AND FOUND PEOPLE TO GIVE THE SHOTS TO EVEN THOUGH IT WAS NOT THE PROTOCOL, HE TOLD HIS SUPERVISORS WHAT HE WAS DOING.

BUT HE WAS FIRED.

TERRIBLE MISTAKE BUT AN A TO HIM FOR GETTING SHOTS INTO ARMS.

>> TARA.

>> MY A GOES TO EMPIRE STATE REALTY TRUST INCORPORATED.

WHICH OWNS THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING AND 13 OTHER BUILDINGS.

THIS WEEK, THE TRUST SIGNED A THREE-YEAR DEAL WITH GREEN MOUNTAIN ENERGY WHICH WILL MAKE THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING AND THE OTHER 13 BUILDINGS TOTALLY ELECTRIFIED BASICALLY, WITH RENEWABLE WIND ELECTRICITY.

THIS MAKES THE TRUST AMERICA'S LARGEST 100% USER OF GREEN POWER IN REAL ESTATE.

>> OKAY, PETER, YOUR A, PLEASE.

>> I'M VERY CONCERNED WITH THE MANY PROPROPOSED BILLS TO LIMIT VOTING ACCESS.

THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT EVEN MORE STATES ARE TRYING TO PASS BILLS AND LAWS THAT WOULD EXTEND VOTING ACCESS OR MAKE IT EASIER TO VOTE.

SO, MY A GOES TO THOSE FOLKS WORKING TO SUPPORT THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

>> OKAY.

LUKE.

>> MY A GOES TO ONEIDA COUNTY MAJORITY LEADER GEORGE JOSEPH, WHO SAID THIS WEEK, THE COUNTY WILL CONDUCT A COMPREHENSIVE "FORENSIC ANALYSIS" OF WHAT WENT WRONG AT THE BOARDS OF ELECTIONS THIS PSYCH.

THIS IS A A VITAL NEXT STEP FOLLOWING THE RESIGNATION OF BOTH ELECTION COMMISSIONERS.

>> OKAY.

THANK YOU AND LUKE, YOUR F TO ZUCKERBERG OVER THE NEWS CUTTING OFF NEWS ON FACEBOOK IN AUSTRALIA.

THAT TOUCHES ON A REALLY CRITICAL POINT THAT I THINK THAT WE -- OFTEN OVERLOOKED.

60% OF ALL DIGITAL AD REVENUE GOES TO JUST FACEBOOK AND GOOGLE AND THAT'S A BIG PART OF THE CRISIS IN JOURNALISM THAT WE SEE THESE DAYS AND A TOPIC THAT WE SHOULD DISCUSS ON ANOTHER PROGRAM.

SO, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS, YOU CAN WRITE TO ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN, YOU CAN DO DO SO ONLINE AT W WCNY.ORG.

FOR ALL OF US HERE AT "IVORY TOWER," HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

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