>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, DEPARTMENT OVERHAUL.

ANOTHER NEW ADVISORY COUNCIL AT CYFD BEGINS ITS WORK, BUT CAN IT MAKE A DENT IN THE SYSTEMIC ISSUES PLAGUING THE AGENCY?

AND ... >> Ribe: THIS IS OUR LAND.

THIS IS LAND THAT WE, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, ALL OWN  TOGETHER.

>> Gene: OUR LAND BEGINS A  SERIES EXAMINING ACCESS TO ONE OF OUR STATE’S PRIZED  NATURE PRESERVES, THE VALLES CALDERA.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

>> Gene: THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I'M YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

A DECISION FROM THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION IS  CLEARING THE WAY TO SEND TENS OF THOUSANDS OF TONS OF  SPENT NUCLEAR WASTE TO BE STORED HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

WE'VE TOLD YOU ABOUT THE PLAN FROM HOLTEC INTERNATIONAL, AND EARLIER THIS WEEK THE NRC APPROVED THE COMPANY’S LICENSE.

COMING UP IN THE SECOND HALF  OF THE SHOW, OUR LAND’S LAURA PASKUS EXPLAINS THE  ENVIRONMENTAL RISKS THAT WILL COME WITH THAT WASTE.

TWO FORMER NEW MEXICO STATE BASKETBALL PLAYERS ARE SPEAKING UP ABOUT ALLEGED SEXUAL HARASSMENT, ASSAULT  AND INTIMIDATION ON THE TEAM.

AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HOUR, I ASK THE OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS IF UNIVERSITY OFFICIALS ARE BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

WE'RE ALSO GETTING READY FOR A DECISION FROM THE STATE SUPREME COURT THAT COULD  REOPEN A PROPOSED MERGER INVOLVING THE STATE’S  LARGEST ECLECTIC UTILITY.

I’LL ASK THE PANEL IF THAT  SERVES THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE PUBLIC.

BUT WE START THE SHOW THIS WEEK INSIDE THE STATE’S  CHILDREN YOUTH AND FAMILIES DEPARTMENT WHERE A NEW  ADVISORY COUNCIL MEANT TO GUIDE REFORMS AT THE  DEPARTMENT MEETS FOR THE FIRST TIME.

LET’S GET TO THE LINE.

>> Gene: WELCOME TO OUR  LINE OPINION PANELISTS FOR THE WEEK.

WE'RE JOINED IN STUDIO THIS WEEK BY FORMER STATE  REPRESENTATIVE JUSTINE FOX-YOUNG.

SO GLAD TO HAVE YOU BACK AT THE TABLE.

A WARM WELCOME BACK TO RETIRED REPORTER STEVE  TERRELL, WHO SPENT DECADES AT THE SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN,  AND I MEAN DECADES.

AND FORMER STATE SENATOR  DEDE FELDMAN, SHE'S HERE.

ALMOST A DECADE IN OUR STATE  LEGISLATURE.

WE START THIS WEEK WITH A  LOOK AT A NEW COUNCIL APPOINTED TO ADVISE THE  STATE CHILDREN YOUTH AND FAMILIES DEPARTMENT.

GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN-GRISHAM CREATED THE  COUNCIL THROUGH AN EXECUTIVE ORDER MEANT TO RESTRUCTURE  THE DEPARTMENT SHE’S CALLED ‘DYSFUNCTIONAL.’  NOW, THE GROUP HELD ITS ONLY SCHEDULED PUBLIC MEETING  LAST WEEK WHEN ACTING CYFD SECRETARY TERESA CASADOS  INTRODUCED SIX MEMBERS.

NOW, THEY INCLUDE A FORMER  CYFD SECRETARY, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT, A CHILD  ADVOCATE, A FOSTER CARE SUPPORT PROVIDER, AND MORE.

NOW, DURING THURSDAY’S MEETING, EACH COUNCIL MEMBER  EXPLAINED HOW THEIR BACKGROUNDS WILL INFORM  THEIR PRIORITIES.

WE’LL GET INTO THOSE  PRIORITIES AS WE MOVE THROUGH THIS CONVERSATION,  BUT LET’S START HERE WITH THE MAKEUP OF THE GROUP.

SENATOR, LET ME START WITH YOU.

ARE THESE THE VOICES THAT CYFD NEEDS TO HEAR FROM  RIGHT NOW, THE MAKEUP OF THIS GROUP?

HOW DOES IT SETTLE IN YOUR GUT?

>> Dede: WELL, YOU KNOW, THIS COMMISSION COMES ON THE  HEELS OF A PREVIOUS COMMISSION WHICH ACTUALLY  HAD A RATHER WIDE REPRESENTATION FROM THE COMMUNITY.

THIS ONE IS A LITTLE TIGHTER, I THINK, ALTHOUGH ONE OF THE THINGS THAT INTERESTED ME WAS THE FACT THAT SANDRA BEGAY, WHO IS A  JUDGE IN CHILDREN'S COURT, APPARENTLY WITHDREW FROM  THIS COMMISSION, AND ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE  PREVIOUS COMMISSION WAS THAT THERE BE MORE NATIVE  AMERICAN INVOLVEMENT AND MORE ATTENTION GIVEN TO PLACEMENTS.

>> Gene: DO WE KNOW WHY SHE WITHDREW HER NAME?

IS THERE ANY REPORTING ON THAT?

>> Dede: NO, I DO NOT KNOW.

MAYBE SOMEBODY ELSE DOES, BUT I DON'T KNOW.

I MEAN, THERE ARE SO MANY WITHDRAWALS, INCLUDING THE  SECRETARY THAT RESIGNED AND NOW IS ON THE COMMISSION.

>> Justine: THE WITHDRAWAL APPEARED TO BE BY THE  ADMINISTRATION.

WE'RE AT THAT POINT.

>> Gene: WELL, THAT'S A POINT.

>> Dede: I GUESS SO.

>> Gene: BY THE WAY, I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS, BUT IT'S JUDGE CATHERINE BEGAY.

>> Dede: CATHERINE BEGAY.

>> Gene: RIGHT, I KNOW YOU KNEW THAT, AS WELL.

THE COUNCIL DOESN'T HAVE A TIMELINE IN PLACE FOR ANY  ACTION, ITS ONLY DEPARTMENT ISSUED PRIORITIES ARE  RETAINING FOSTER FAMILIES AND EMPLOYEES, AND JUSTINE,  THOSE ARE IMPORTANT GOALS, BUT GIVEN THE CONCERNS ABOUT  ACCOUNTABILITY WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT, SHOULD THE  COUNCIL HAVE ANY SPECIFIC MANDATES TO GET AFTER, OR IS  THIS JUST A LITTLE LOOSE HERE?

>> Justine: I DON'T KNOW.

COUNCIL AND MANDATES ARE  LIKE OIL AND WATER.

I GUESS I'LL JUST BACK UP  AND SAY, THE PROBLEMS AT THIS AGENCY ARE SO  LONGSTANDING AND SO INTRACTABLE THAT I HESITATE  TO SIT HERE AND SAY I HAVE SOLUTIONS, SO I'M ODDLY  TENTATIVE, GENE.

BUT WE ALWAYS HAVE A COUNCIL  WHEN WE DON'T HAVE SOLUTIONS.

WE ALWAYS HAVE A COUNCIL WHEN NOBODY WANTS TO BE ACCOUNTABLE.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE ARE.

I THINK THIS IS A MISSED OPPORTUNITY FOR THE ADMINISTRATION TO REALLY LAY OUT SOME HARD PLANS AND REALLY LOOK AT TRUE REFORM,  WHICH IS CREATING A VACUUM AND ALLOWING THE ATTORNEY  GENERAL AND OTHERS, YOU KNOW, TO START LOOKING AT,  OKAY, WELL, WHAT ARE WE REALLY GOING TO DO, MAYBE ON  A CASE BY CASE BASIS.

RAUL TORREZ HAS SAID, I'M  COMING IN.

YOU GUYS CAN IGNORE MY  LEGISLATIVE INITIATIVES, THE GOVERNOR CAN POO-POO IT, I'M  GOING TO USE MY AUTHORITY AND COME IN WHERE I CAN AND  ADDRESS SOME OF THESE SYSTEMIC ISSUES OF RACISM.

AND SO I THINK THAT'S A REAL MISSED OPPORTUNITY FOR THE  GOVERNOR, AND I THINK IT'S REALLY PROBLEMATIC, BECAUSE  THINGS ARE BEING ADDRESSED SO PIECEMEAL.

SO I DON'T HAVE HIGH HOPES FOR THE COMMISSION, BUT I'M  NOT SURE A MANDATE WOULD GET US THERE.

BUT WE NEED GOOD LEADERSHIP, AND INSTEAD, WE HAVE AN  INTERIM SECRETARY WHO'S NOT ANSWERING QUESTIONS.

YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE CROSSED DOOR  MEETINGS, MAYBE WE'LL LET YOU KNOW WHAT WE'RE UP TO.

THAT'S NOT A GOOD START.

>> Gene: IT IS KIND OF A  SIGNAL, ISN'T IT, WHAT JUSTINE JUST MENTIONED.

SOME OF THE MEETINGS ARE GOING TO BE FOR THE PUBLIC,  SOME OF THEM ARE NOT.

LET ME KIND OF PEEL BACK IN  HISTORY, THOUGH, STEVE TERRELL, ON JUSTINE'S POINT HERE.

THE LAST ADVISORY BOARD, THE ENHANCING DELIVERY OF SERVICES STEERING  COMMITTEE -- THAT WAS WHAT THE NAME OF IT WAS --  FINISHED ITS WORK, SUBMITTED ITS RECOMMENDATIONS, NO  DISCUSSION ABOUT TURNING THEM INTO POLICY, AND WHAT  HAPPENED WAS DURING LAST WEEK'S MEETING A FORMER  MEMBER OF THE STEERING COMMITTEE SPOKE UP, CALLING  IT INSULTING AND DISRESPECTFUL TO DISREGARD  THE HUNDREDS OF HOURS THAT WAS PUT IN.

DOES THAT SPEAK TO A DISCONNECTION HERE?

LIKE, SOMETHING'S NOT QUITE STITCHED TOGETHER HERE.

>> Steve: WHEN IT DOUBT, START A COMMITTEE.

YEAH, IT REALLY DOES.

YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT THE  ONLY AGENCY THAT'S DONE THIS THROUGH THE YEARS.

I REMEMBER, OH, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A STUDY AND  IT'S GOING TO LAY ON A SHELF, AND PRETTY SOON  SOMEONE WILL JUST TOSS IT.

THE WHOLE LACK OF  TRANSPARENCY -- I KNOW THEY HAD ONE MEETING PUBLIC  RECENTLY, BUT, MAYBE WE'LL HAVE SOME MORE AND MAYBE  WE'LL HAVE, YOU KNOW, CLOSED DOOR MEETINGS.

IT SEEMED LIKE, WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

AND I AGREE WITH JUSTINE, COMPLETE MISSED OPPORTUNITY.

>> Gene: WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, SENATOR, WHO'S THE  ONE TO PUT THE MANDATE DOWN?

I GUESS THAT'S MY QUESTION.

IF FOLKS ARE LOOKING FOR A MANDATE, IT CAN ONLY COME  FROM A COUPLE OF FOLKS, RIGHT?

IT CAN'T COME FROM INSIDE THEIR OWN BODY.

DO I HAVE THAT WRONG?

>> Dede: WELL, THERE ARE  MANDATES AND THERE ARE RECOMMENDATIONS, AND THEY  CAN COME FROM ON HIGH OR THEY CAN COME FROM AN OUTSIDE OMBUDSMAN OR THEY CAN COME FROM THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

>> Justine: OR THE COURTS CAN SAY -- >> Dede: OR THE COURTS, WHICH IS ALREADY ACTIVE HERE, AND STILL THE CHANGE  HAS NOT COME THAT HAS BEEN EMBEDDED IN THE RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE INTERNAL MANDATES.

SO THERE REALLY IS -- IT IS AN INTRACTABLE PROBLEM.

AND I MEAN, JUST IMAGINE WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE TO  WORK FOR CYFD.

IMAGINE WHAT IT WOULD BE  LIKE TO GO INTO SOMEBODY'S HOME AS A SOCIAL WORKER AND  KNOW THAT THE DECISION THAT YOU MAKE IS WHETHER THAT  PERSON GETS TO SEE THEIR CHILD OR NOT.

NO WONDER THERE'S A MORALE PROBLEM.

NO WONDER EVERY COMMITTEE THAT MEETS SAYS, THERE NEEDS  TO BE A CULTURE CHANGE AND THAT THE DEPARTMENT NEEDS TO  HAVE, YOU KNOW, AN INTERNAL RECKONING ABOUT, IS THIS A  SAFE PLACE TO WORK?

IS THERE A PSYCHOLOGICALLY  NURTURING ENVIRONMENT WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT?

DO CASEWORKERS HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO HANDLE ALL THE  PSYCHOLOGICAL CASES AND STRESSES THAT THEY FACE?

>> Steve: AND ARE THERE ENOUGH CASEWORKERS.

>> Dede: THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Gene: THEY'VE ALREADY  ADMITTED THERE'S NOT.

>> Justine: AND ARE WE  TAKING ON THE PROBLEMS WE CAN ONLY FIX?

WE TAG CYFD WITH FAILING EVERY TIME SOMETHING HAPPENS  TO A KID, AND IT'S NOT ALWAYS THE AGENCY'S --  >> Gene: LET ME BUTTON DOWN THIS TRANSPARENCY THING WITH  YOU, JUSTINE.

THE ACTING SECRETARY HAS  SAID THAT THE COUNCIL MEMBERS WILL BE EMPOWERED TO  HOLD PUBLIC MEETINGS AND REFORMS AROUND THE STATE ON  THEIR OWN, BUT NO SPECIFICS WERE GIVEN.

WAS THAT SORT OF A KICK DOWN?

>> Justine: YEAH, TOTALING PUNTING.

AND I DON'T KNOW WHY.

YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR CAME  OUT STRONG WITH THIS EXECUTIVE ORDER, LAID OUT  SOMETHING OF AN AGENDA THIS SESSION, AND I'M NOT PRIVY  TO THE DETAILS, I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT FELL APART, BUT YOU  JUST CAN'T START -- YOU'RE DOA.

YOU CAN'T START LIKE THAT.

>> Gene: EXACTLY RIGHT.

I'M NOT SURE IF THAT ANSWERS THE ISSUE.

LET ME GO TO SOMETHING ELSE HERE, AND I'LL START WITH STEVE.

THREE YEARS AGO, YOU MIGHT RECALL, STEVE -- I KNOW YOU DO -- THE STATE SETTLED  WHAT'S REFERRED TO AS KEVIN'S LAWSUIT, OF COURSE,  WHICH ALLEGED TRAUMA IMPACTED CHILDREN IN NEW MEXICO FOSTER CARE LACKED SAFE, APPROPRIATE AND STABLE PLACEMENTS AND BEHAVIORAL HEALTH SERVICES IN THE STATE  SYSTEM.

TWO COURT MANDATED ANNUAL  REVIEWS FOLLOWED THE SETTLEMENT.

THE STATE RECEIVED A FAILING GRADE EACH TIME.

IS THERE ENOUGH URGENCY TO FULFILL THE COURT-ORDERED  REFORMS MADE IN KEVIN'S SETTLEMENT BEFORE WE GET ON  TO SOMETHING ELSE?

>> Steve: THAT SEEMS A HUGE MESS, JUST A HUGE CESSPOOL, REALLY.

TWO FAILING GRADES IN A ROW, AND THEY'RE HEADING FOR A THIRD, PROBABLY.

SO NO, I'M NOT SURE WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE HERE, BUT,  AGAIN, WHAT THEY'RE DOING AIN'T WORKING.

>> Gene: I APOLOGIZE; THE KEVIN S. SETTLEMENT.

SORRY ABOUT THAT.

DO YOU HAVE A THOUGHT ON  THAT, SENATOR?

>> Dede: YES.

THE THING IS  THAT THE KEVIN S. SETTLEMENT, AS I UNDERSTAND  IT, WAS THAT THE DEPARTMENT WAS SUPPOSED TO PROVIDE CARE  KNOWING THAT IT WAS TRAUMA INDUCED.

THIS IS THE TERM, TRAUMA INDUCED.

AND YET THE DEPARTMENT, IN ITS TOUGHEST CASES, NEEDS  SUPPORT, BEHAVIORAL HEALTH SUPPORT, FROM OTHER  AGENCIES, AND THE SERVICES JUST AREN'T THERE,  ESPECIALLY FOR THE TEENAGERS WHO ARE THE REAL TOUGH CASES.

THEY CAN'T EVEN GET ANYBODY TO HOUSE THE TEENAGERS.

>> Gene: THAT'S RIGHT, THERE'S NO OVERNIGHT HOUSING.

>> Dede: SO THEY'RE NOW IN HOMELESS SHELTERS, AND THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.

BUT IT'S NOT JUST THAT  DEPARTMENT, THERE HAS TO BE HELP IN TERMS OF BEHAVIORAL  HEALTH SERVICES AND OTHER BACKUP HOUSING OPTIONS FOR  THIS POPULATION.

SO THE DEPARTMENT HAS GOT TO  WORK WITH OTHERS.

AND I DO -- I HAVE HEARD  TERESA CASADOS TALK ABOUT THAT AND HOW SHE WANTS CYFD  TO FEEL THAT OTHER AGENCIES HAVE THEIR BACKS.

>> Gene: GOTCHA.

>> Justine: AND I THINK  BEFORE YOU CAN REALLY DO THAT, THE ADMINISTRATION HAS  TO AIR ALL THOSE GORY DETAILS.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT AN EXECUTIVE ORDER SHOULD SAY.

IT SHOULD SAY, WE DON'T WANT ANY TEENAGERS IN HOMELESS  SHELTERS.

I MEAN, WE'RE GOING TO END  THAT THIS YEAR.

BUT NOBODY WANTS TO TALK  ABOUT IT.

>> Gene: ONE MORE THING  BEFORE WE GET OUT OF THIS SUBJECT.

THE GOVERNOR, AS YOU FOLKS REMEMBER, POCKET VETOED A  BILL THAT WOULD HAVE CREATED A NEW CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION  TO SUE THE STATE ON BEHALF OF CHILDREN "HARMED BY  GOVERNMENT NEGLECT AND INCOMPETENCE."

INSTEAD OF GIVING THE AG THAT AUTHORITY, THE GOVERNOR  CREATED THIS COUNCIL, WHICH IS HOW WE STARTED THIS  CONVERSATION.

>> Justine: THIS IS RAUL  TORREZ'S INITIATIVE.

>> Gene: THAT'S RIGHT.

WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THE ADMINISTRATION'S COMMITMENT  TO THE WELL-BEING OF THE STATE?

THAT SEEMS LIKE A REASONABLE STEP TO A LOT OF PEOPLE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, WHAT MR. TORREZ WANTS?

>> Justine: I DON'T KNOW THAT I KNOW ENOUGH TO HAVE A  POSITION ABOUT WHETHER ANOTHER OFFICE IS GOING TO  FIX IT, BUT I DO THINK IT WAS NOT WELL ORCHESTRATED,  AND I DID NOT HEAR THE GOVERNOR ARTICULATING A  CLEAR POSITION AS TO WHY SHE OPPOSED IT.

NOW, SHE POCKET VETOED THE BILL.

SHE NEVER PUT OUT ANY MESSAGE, AND SO IT SURE  LOOKS BAD.

AND YOU'VE GOT MR. TORREZ,  YOU'VE GOT THE AG, I THINK SINCERELY LOOKING TO ATTACK  THIS PROBLEM, WHICH IS UNUSUAL, AND THIS IS A  PROBLEM THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS SIT FRONT AND CENTER IN THE PRESS.

SO I THINK, AGAIN, IT'S A MISSED OPPORTUNITY.

>> Gene: ARE AGENCIES ROWING IN THE SAME DIRECTION HERE, OR ARE THEY ROWING AGAINST EACH OTHER GOING IN A CIRCLE?

I MEAN, MR. TORREZ HAS A REASONABLE REQUEST, IT WOULD SEEM.

>> Dede: WELL, AND IT WAS THE IDEA THAT THERE HAS TO BE SOME SORT OF OUTSIDE  OVERSIGHT, SOME SORT OF GRIEVANCE PROCEDURE THAT IS  NOT JUST GOING BACK TO THE DEPARTMENT.

THAT WAS IN ALL THE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THESE  OTHER COMMISSIONS.

>> Gene: THANK YOU FOR  SAYING THAT.

>> Dede: AND YOU KNOW, THE  LEGISLATURE ALSO TURNED DOWN A LOT OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS  OF THESE COMMISSIONS, TOO.

IT WASN'T JUST THE GOVERNOR  VETOING THAT CIVIL RIGHTS SECTION.

>> Justine: THERE WERE 30 LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS,  WASN'T THERE?

>> Dede: I DON'T KNOW, BUT  THEY HAD A PROPOSAL FOR AN OUTSIDE OMBUDSMAN THAT WAS  TURNED DOWN.

THEY HAD A PROPOSAL FROM  REPRESENTATIVE MARIAN MATTHEWS FOR INCREASED  TRANSPARENCY, AND THAT WAS TURNED DOWN BY THE  LEGISLATURE.

SO I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT  RECOURSE THERE IS RIGHT NOW.

>> Gene: THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

LET'S FINISH WITH THIS, STEVE.

WHAT ACCESS DOES THE DEPARTMENT OWE TO FOSTER PARENTS, MEANING YOUTH CARE AND OTHER STAKEHOLDERS IN THE EQUATION.

WHAT DO WE OWE THESE PEOPLE?

>> Steve: APPARENTLY A LOT  OF THEM ARE OWED A LOT OF MONEY THAT THEY HAVEN'T RECEIVED.

NO, THEY DEFINITELY SHOULD HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE DIRECTLY AFFECTED.

>> Gene: YEAH.

SENATOR, SAME?

>> Dede: I TOTALLY AGREE, AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE CURRENT COMMISSION HAS A FOSTER FAMILY IN THERE AS  PART OF THEIR MEMBERS.

I THINK THE OTHER ONE DID.

BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE'S A FORMER FOSTER  CHILD THAT'S PART OF THE COMMISSION, BUT NOT A  CURRENT FOSTER FAMILY.

>> Gene: THAT'S INTERESTING.

DOES THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN YOUR MIND?

>> Dede: WELL, YOU KNOW, FOSTER FAMILIES ARE WHERE IT'S AT.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHO WE'RE RELYING ON TO TAKE CARE OF -- >> Justine: HOLDING PAYMENT AND IGNORING THEIR GRIEVANCES IS NOT A GREAT  RECRUITMENT STRATEGY.

>> Dede: IT'S A HARD JOB, TOO.

>> Gene: GOOD LAST POINT THERE FROM JUSTINE.

THANKS TO OUR LINE OPINION PANEL.

WE'LL BE BACK HERE AT THE TABLE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE TO TALK ABOUT THE LATEST  DEVELOPMENT IN AN APPEAL THAT COULD SEND THE FAILED  PNM-AVANGRID MERGER BACK TO THE PUBLIC REGULATION COMMISSION FOR RECONSIDERATION.

>> Ribe: OUR CONCERN HAS BEEN, WE WANT THE PUBLIC TO  BE ABLE TO ACCESS THE LAND EASILY, BUT WE'RE ALSO  CONCERNED AND MINDFUL OF THE SAME THING THAT THE PARK  SERVICE IS UP THERE.

THEY DON'T WANT THE PLACE TO  JUST BE OVERRUN WITH HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF  PEOPLE JUST RUNNING AROUND DOING ANYTHING THEY WANT ANY  TIME THEY WANT.

WE AGREE WITH THE PARK  SERVICE THAT THERE SHOULD BE RESTRICTIONS TO PROTECT THE  PLACE.

WE'RE JUST A LITTLE  CONCERNED RIGHT NOW THAT THE RESTRICTIONS ARE A LITTLE  BIT TOO TIGHT.

>> Gene: WELCOME BACK TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS.

THE REVAMPED STATE PUBLIC  REGULATION COMMISSION COULD SOON HAVE TO RECONSIDER A  PROPOSED MERGER BETWEEN THE STATE'S LARGEST ELECTRIC  UTILITY -- YOU KNOW WHO THAT IS, THAT'S PNM -- AND  INTERNATIONAL ENERGY COMPANY AVANGRID.

NOW, THE STATE SUPREME COURT WILL DECIDE WHETHER TO SEND  THE MERGER BACK TO THIS NEW THREE MEMBER PRC FOR  RECONSIDERATION, AND IF THAT HAPPENS, ONE OF THOSE THREE  COMMISSIONERS HAS ALREADY RECUSED HIMSELF FROM ANY  DISCUSSIONS OR DECISIONS RELATED TO THE MERGER,  PATRICK O’CONNELL MADE THAT DECISION IN JANUARY.

NOW, HE HAD PREVIOUSLY SERVED AS A POLICY ANALYST  FOR WESTERN RESOURCE ADVOCATES AND GAVE SWORN  TESTIMONY IN SUPPORT OF STIPULATIONS FOR THE MERGER.

HE ALSO WORKED IN VARIOUS ROLES FOR PNM FROM '99 TO 2019.

VOTERS USED TO CHOOSE FIVE PRC COMMISSIONERS, YOU MIGHT RECALL.

NOW THE GOVERNOR APPOINTS THREE.

AND STEVE, THAT MEANS FEWER PERSPECTIVES INVOLVED,  ESPECIALLY WITH MR. O’CONNELL'S RECUSAL.

WHAT DOES THE NEW SETUP OF THE COMMISSION DO FOR PUBLIC  TRUST?

SHOULD WE FEEL BETTER ABOUT THIS?

>> Steve: I DON'T KNOW.

YOU KNOW, I SUPPORTED THE MOVE.

I VOTED FOR THE MOVE TO HAVE IT APPOINTED BY THE  GOVERNOR, BECAUSE THE PRC HAD A LONG LEGACY OF  ELECTING BOZOS, BASICALLY, AND A LOT OF --  >> Gene: AT NINETY-FIVE GRAND A YEAR, IT ATTRACTED A  LOT OF BOZOS.

>> Steve: YEAH, AND A LOT  OF CASES OF EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS WITH PNM AND  OTHERS.

SO THAT'S THEIR HERITAGE.

I THOUGHT, WELL, THIS WILL MAKE IT BETTER, AND NOW I'M  NOT SURE.

IF THERE IS A TIE -- I DON'T  KNOW WHAT HAPPENS IF THERE'S A TIE VOTE.

I SUSPECT THERE WON'T BE.

AND THE OPTICS OF THAT IS  JUST TERRIBLE.

>> Gene: WAS THIS NOT  DISCUSSED IN CERTAIN CIRCLES BEFORE WE WENT TO THIS  STYLE?

DID WE ALL   GET BAMBOOZLED HERE?

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?

>> Steve: I'M NOT SURE.

SOME PEOPLE WARNED, YEAH, THE GOVERNOR WILL JUST  APPOINT CRONIES AND STUFF.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S WHAT  HAPPENED HERE, BUT YOU KNOW, IF THEY JUST GO AND VOTE  AGAINST THE PRC, THIS NEW UNELECTED COMMISSION, AND  THEY GO AND VOTE AGAINST THIS DECISION -- WAS IT LAST  YEAR OR BEFORE?

>> Gene: IN 2021, YEAH.

>> Steve: IT'S GOING TO LOOK BAD.

IT JUST DOESN'T QUITE PASS THE SMELL TEST.

>> Gene: STEVE MAKES A GOOD POINT HERE.

HOW SHOULD WE CONSIDER THAT THE PREVIOUS COMMISSION  UNANIMOUSLY VOTED DOWN THIS MERGER, VOTED IT DOWN, CITED  AVANGRID'S POOR PERFORMANCE RECORD IN THE NORTHEAST,  QUESTIONABLE CORPORATE PRACTICES AS THE MAIN  REASONS.

THE UTILITY APPEALED, OF  COURSE, AS STEVE ALLUDED TO THERE, RULING A MONTH LATER.

BUT IN MARCH OF THIS YEAR, THE NEW PRC COMMISSIONERS  JOINED WITH THE UTILITY TO ASK THE SUPREME COURT TO  DISMISS THE APPEAL, KICK THE CASE BACK TO THE PRC FOR  RECONSIDERATION.

WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE?

THAT'S MY QUESTION HERE.

>> Dede: THIS REALLY LOOKS BAD.

IT JUST REALLY LOOKS BAD.

IT'S BEEN A TRAGEDY OF ERRORS, I THINK, FROM THE  VERY BEGINNING.

THE POPULAR VOTE, THE  AMENDMENT THAT WAS PASSED IN 2020, WAS PASSED ON THE  BASIS, LIKE STEVE SAID, THAT THE PREVIOUS COMMISSION WAS  UNPROFESSIONAL, THEY WERE BOZOS, THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT  THEY WERE DOING.

WELL, UPON FURTHER  INVESTIGATION, THAT ELECTION WAS INVESTIGATED BY THE  ETHICS COMMISSION AND IT WAS FOUND THAT THE PEOPLE  PUTTING OUT ALL THIS INFORMATION ABOUT HOW  UNPROFESSIONAL AND WE NEED A PROFESSIONAL APPROACH WAS  PAID FOR BY EXXON.

SO THEN WE HAD THE  APPOINTMENT OF THE NEW COMMISSION, IN WHICH THE  SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE APPOINTED HIMSELF TO BE A  PART OF THE SELECTION PROCESS.

THEN THE NEW COMMISSION WAS SELECTED, AND ONE OF THE  MEMBERS WAS IMMEDIATELY FOUND NOT TO BE QUALIFIED,  HAD TO REMOVE HIMSELF FROM THERE, AND THEN A NEW ONE  WAS APPOINTED IMMEDIATELY BY THE GOVERNOR, AND IT LOOKS  VERY MUCH LIKE THE TRAIN IS ON THE TRACKS FOR THESE NEW  DECISION-MAKERS TO OVERTURN THE DECISION THAT WAS MADE  EARLIER AND TO DO SO RATHER QUICKLY WITHOUT MUCH PUBLIC  INPUT, ALTHOUGH I THINK THAT THAT IS A HOPE, THAT IF THE  COURT REMANDS IT BACK TO THE PRC, THERE WILL BE PUBLIC  INPUT, BECAUSE WITHOUT IT, WE WILL BE, I THINK, VICTIMS  OF THE BIGGEST PR SHUFFLE THAT WE'VE SEEN IN A LONG TIME.

>> Gene: SENATOR, WHAT DOES THIS NEW COMMISSION SEE IN THE DEAL THAT THEIR  PREDECESSORS DIDN'T?

THAT'S THE CONFUSING PART HERE.

>> Dede: I DON'T KNOW.

I MEAN, IT'S NORMAL FOR A UTILITY, I THINK, THAT  RECEIVES A NEGATIVE OPINION FROM THE PRC TO TAKE IT TO COURT.

WHAT IS NOT NORMAL IS FOR THE COMMISSION THEN TO JOIN WITH THE PLAINTIFFS AND ASK  THE COURT TO OVERTURN A PREVIOUS DECISION.

THAT'S REALLY UNUSUAL.

>> Gene: GOOD POINTS THERE.

JUSTINE, NEW ALLEGATIONS OF MISCONDUCT SURROUNDING THE  MERGER AFTER RECENT DISCLOSURE OF EX PARTE  COMMUNICATIONS -- HERE WE GO AGAIN -- BETWEEN PRC  COMMISSIONERS AND ATTORNEYS FOR THOSE UTILITIES.

FIRST OF ALL, FOR THE FOLKS, WHAT IS EX PARTE  COMMUNICATIONS?

LET'S EXPLAIN THAT FIRST IN  THIS CONTEXT AND WHY THAT'S PROBLEMATIC.

>> Justine: SURE.

SO EX-PARTE IS OUTSIDE THE  COMMISSION PROCESS, AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THE LAWYERS FROM  THE UTILITIES WERE TALKING TO THE LAWYERS FROM THE PRC.

I THINK THERE'S SO MUCH SCRUTINY AND PARANOIA, NOT  WRONGFULLY, AND SKEPTICISM FOR A FEW REASONS GOING  BACK, AND THAT IS THAT AS A PART OF THIS MERGER, OR THIS  ATTEMPTED MERGER, THE SHAREHOLDERS OF PNM SPENT A  TON OF MONEY ON A HUGE ADVERTISING CAMPAIGN, AND  THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, 24 HOURS A DAY ON TV, AND IN THE  PAPER, ETC., INSTEAD OF COMING FORWARD AND SAYING,  HEY, WE ARE PROPOSING RATE REDUCTIONS.

WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THIS MONEY AND PROPOSE RATE  REDUCTIONS, BECAUSE THIS IS CONSUMER FRIENDLY.

THEY KICKED AND SCREAMED IN TERMS OF EVERY CONCESSION.

YOU KNOW, SEPARATION OF THE COMPANIES, NO SELF-SERVING  TRANSACTIONS, RATE REDUCTIONS, WHEN YOU ALREADY  HAVE CONSUMER BASES ACROSS THE COUNTRY SCREAMING THAT  AVANGRID IS A TERROR, AND THEN YOU HAVE PNM, YOU KNOW,  REFUSING TO MAKE THESE CONCESSIONS UP FRONT.

I THINK THERE IS A LONG HISTORY OF SKEPTICISM ABOUT  THIS DEAL, AND SO THAT'S A PROBLEM.

I'M NOT SO WORRIED ABOUT THE EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS,  BECAUSE THESE ARE LAWYERS TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY'RE  GOING TO PROCEED IN THIS CASE.

WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS A GOOD PR DECISION OR GOOD POLICY  FOR THE COMMISSION TO JOIN, THAT'S A SEPARATE QUESTION.

BUT IT'S UNUSUAL, AND I THINK THERE'S SKEPTICISM FOR  THAT REASON.

BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE  DAY, WE WANT TO SEE CONSUMERS PAYING LOWER  RATES, AND PNM BLEW A BUNCH OF MONEY TRYING TO SELL THIS  DEAL TO THE PUBLIC.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINTS THERE.

I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF FOLLOW-UPS ON YOUR RANT THERE.

>> Justine: I WAS WORKED UP.

>> Gene: THAT WAS A CAPITAL 'R' RANT.

I LOVED IT, ABSOLUTELY.

DO THESE ONE-SIDED  COMMUNICATIONS AUTOMATICALLY AMOUNT TO A VIOLATION OF  PUBLIC TRUST HERE, STEVE?

ARE WE WATCHING THIS TOO  CLOSELY?

ARE CONSUMERS WATCHING THIS  AS CLOSELY?

>> Steve: PROBABLY MOST  CONSUMERS DON'T CARE, BUT THOSE OF US --  >> Justine: THEY CARE WHAT THEIR BILL SAYS AT THE END  OF THE MONTH.

>> Steve: THAT'S RIGHT, AND  I HAD A HIGH BILL LAST TIME.

BUT,   YEAH, IT JUST LOOKS BAD.

IT'S JUST THE OPTICS AND THE MISSED OPPORTUNITIES HERE.

YOU KNOW, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THIS IS PNM TRYING TO PULL  ANOTHER ONE.

>> Justine: DON'T YOU GUYS  THINK WITH ALL THIS THEY SHOULD START WITH A NEW  PROPOSAL IF IT COMES BACK TO THE PRC?

>> Dede: WELL, THAT'S WHAT THEY SAY THEY'RE GOING TO DO.

THAT'S WHAT AVANGRID'S POINT IS, THAT IF IT GOES BACK TO THE PRC, THEY HAVE NEW  PROPOSALS, THEY HAVE NEW BENEFITS FOR NEW MEXICO THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE PRESENTING IF THIS IS  ACTUALLY REOPENED AND NOT JUST REHEARD OR  RECONSIDERED, WHICH IS WHAT THEY'RE ARGUING ABOUT MORE  RECENTLY.

>> Gene: DEDE, WHAT DO YOU  MAKE OF THIS ANOTHER LITTLE LAYER OF WEIRDNESS HERE,  GUYS, ON THIS STORY.

WE HAVE THE NONPROFIT  ORGANIZATION NEW ENERGY ECONOMY, WE'RE ALL FAMILIAR  WITH THOSE FOLKS, BUT WE'VE GOT ACCUSATIONS -- THEY'VE  ROLLED OUT, AND THEY HAVE AN AGENDA, LET'S GET SERIOUS  HERE, BUT VERY FEW OF THE FACTS THEY'VE ROLLED OUT IN  OPPOSITION HAVE BEEN CHALLENGED.

THAT CHANGED LAST WEEK, AS  YOU MIGHT HAVE HEARD, WHEN AVANGRID SENT A CEASE AND  DESIST LETTER TO NEE ACCUSING THE E.D.

OF  DEFAMATION WHEN SHE SAID DURING AN INTERVIEW THAT  AVANGRID AND ITS SPANISH PARENT COMPANY LITERALLY  HAVE "BOUGHT OUT JUDGES AND BRIBED JUDGES."

>> Justine: WE'RE JUST GETTING A TASTE OF HOW IT'LL  BE IN THE FUTURE.

>> Gene: IS THAT WHAT WE'RE  HEARING HERE?

IS THIS HOW THE COURT CASE  IS GOING TO GO, WITH THESE KIND OF BOMBS BEING THROWN?

WOW.

SENATOR, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF  THAT?

>> Dede: AND THEN THEY  THROW A BOMB BACK AND SAY, OH, SHE'S A SOCIALIST, SHE  WANTS A GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER OF UTILITIES.

SO I MEAN, YEAH, WELCOME TO NEW MEXICO.

>> Gene: WELL, WHAT'S THE PUBLIC SUPPOSED TO MAKE OUT  OF THIS IF WE'VE GOT A BRASS KNUCKLE FIGHT GOING ON HERE  WITH THESE PEOPLE?

>> Dede: WELL, IT'S JUST  ANOTHER SAGA IN THE PRC.

FROM THE VERY BEGINNING WHEN  IT WAS ESTABLISHED IN, I GUESS IT WAS 1999 OR SO, IT  WAS ESTABLISHED AS AN ELECTED BODY, REMEMBER,  BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T THINK THE THREE MEMBER CORPORATION  COMMISSION AND PUBLIC UTILITY CORPORATION, I GUESS  IT WAS CALLED, THEY DIDN'T THINK THAT THERE WAS ENOUGH  PUBLIC INPUT AND IT WAS JUST DONE BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

THEN WE GOT THE ELECTED PRC, AND NOW WE'RE BACK.

>> Gene: THAT'S RIGHT.

WELL, LET ME ADD THE  QUESTION, JUST TO FINISH WITH THIS, STEVE, IT'S  INTERESTING TO ME THAT EARLIER IN THE YEAR, THE  GOVERNOR ANNOUNCED SHE'D CREATE A TRIBAL ADVISORY  COUNCIL THAT WOULD MAKE NONBINDING RECOMMENDATIONS  TO THE PRC, AND THIS CAME ABOUT AFTER TRIBAL MEMBERS  WERE PASSED OVER FOR THAT THREE MEMBER COMMISSION.

IS THIS AN APPROPRIATE MAKE GOOD?

IS THIS GOING TO BE JUST WINDOW DRESSING?

WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT HERE WITH THESE KIND OF -- YOU  KNOW, TRIBAL PERSPECTIVE IS PRETTY IMPORTANT ON THIS MERGER.

YOU WOULD THINK THIS WOULD BE A LOUDER VOICE HERE.

>> Steve: WELL, LIKE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER IN ANOTHER TOPIC, WHEN IN  DOUBT, FORM A COMMITTEE.

I SEE IT AS WINDOW DRESSING.

THEY'RE PERFECTLY -- THEY WOULD BE WITHIN THEIR RIGHT  TO JUST TOTALLY IGNORE ANYTHING THIS COUNCIL OR  THIS COMMITTEE COMES UP WITH.

THEY DON'T HAVE ANY REAL POWER.

THEY COULD HAVE ANOTHER ONE OF THESE STUDIES LAYING ON TOP OF THE OTHERS AND NOBODY EVER READS IT.

>> Gene: THAT'S RIGHT.

DON'T FORGET, JUSTINE, THREE  INDIGENOUS GROUPS SUED THE STATE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN,  OVER THE RESTRUCTURING OF THE PRC AND THE COURT RULED  IN FAVOR OF THE STATE.

SO AGAIN, WHERE DOES THAT  LEAVE TRIBES IN THIS CONVERSATION?

>> Justine: IT LEAVES THEM OUT.

AND THE GOVERNOR HAS NOT BEEN VOCAL ON THAT, OR ON  THE MERGER.

I MEAN, I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY  OFFICIAL POSITION.

THIS IS A HUGE DEAL FOR THE  STATE.

I THINK WE NEED TO HEAR FROM HER.

>> Gene: DEDE, THE PRC SAYS IT WILL REOPEN PUBLIC MEETINGS ON THE MERGER IF  THE SUPREME COURT SENDS THE CASE BACK TO THE COMMISSION.

WHY CAN'T THEY JUST AGREE TO DO THAT?

WHY DOES THERE HAVE TO BE AN IF; IF IT GETS KICKED BACK?

THAT'S SO CRAZY.

>> Dede: WELL, IT'S CLOSED.

IT'S CLOSED NOW.

IT'S BEEN TURNED DOWN AS WE SPEAK.

BUT, YEAH, JUST GETTING BACK TO THE OTHER THING, ABOUT THE NATIVE AMERICANS, THE  NATIVE AMERICANS ARE THE ONES THAT WORK AT THE POWER  PLANTS IN THE FOUR CORNERS AREA, AND THEY'RE THE ONES  THAT HAVE A LOT OF THE RESOURCES THAT ARE NO LONGER  BEING USED FOR COAL-FIRED GENERATION, SO THEY  CERTAINLY HAVE A STAKE IN THIS, AND THEY'RE NOT GIVEN  AN OFFICIAL ONE.

>> Gene: THE PRC, WHAT A  JOURNEY GOING BACK.

REMEMBER THE ORIGINAL MAP  WITH THE PIE-SHAPED DISTRICTS THAT ALL KIND OF  DOVE-TAILED INTO THE ALBUQUERQUE AREA?

IT WAS LIKE THE CRAZIEST THING IN THE WORLD, AND HERE  WE ARE STILL ARGUING YEARS LATER.

THANKS AGAIN TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELIST.

WE'LL BE BACK HERE AT THE TABLE FOR ONE FINAL  DISCUSSION WHEN WE REACT TO THE LATEST REPORTING ON  ALLEGED HARASSMENT AND SEXUAL ASSAULT WITHIN NEW MEXICO STATE UNIVERSITY BASKETBALL.

THAT'S IN LESS THAN 15.

RIGHT NOW, WE SHIFT OUR  ATTENTION TO ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SPOTS IN OUR  STATE, THE VALLES CALDERA IN THE JEMEZ MOUNTAINS.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BOUGHT THE LAND IN 2000.

-- THAT SEEMS LIKE A LONG TIME AGO -- FOR ABOUT  $100 MILLION, AND SINCE THEN ITS MANAGEMENT HAS SEEN SOME  COMPLICATIONS.

OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER  LAURA PASKUS SITS DOWN WITH WATCHDOG TOM RIBE OF CALDERA  ACTION TO TALK ABOUT ILLEGAL CATTLE GRAZING, PUBLIC ACCESS, AND INPUT AND THE FUTURE CHALLENGES FACING THE PRESERVE.

>> Laura: TOM RIBE, WELCOME AND THANKS FOR JOINING ME.

>> Ribe: THANKS.

IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

>> Laura: SO THE VALLES CALDERA IN THE JEMEZ MOUNTAINS HAS A LONG, LONG, LONG HISTORY WITH HUMANS, BUT WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE LAST 23 YEARS.

IN 2000, THE U.S. GOVERNMENT BOUGHT THE VALLES CALDERA  FROM A FAMILY, FROM PRIVATE LANDOWNERS, AND AT FIRST IT  WAS MANAGED BY A TRUST, THEN IT WAS MANAGED BY THE U.S.  FOREST SERVICE, AND NOW THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE.

IN TERMS OF PUBLIC LANDS, IS THAT USUAL?

WHY ARE THINGS SO COMPLICATED WITH THIS PIECE OF LAND?

>> Ribe: WELL, IT ALL GOES BACK TO THE LATE SENATOR PETE DOMENICI WHO -- IN  1998-1999, THERE WERE A BUNCH OF PUBLIC PEOPLE WHO  WERE PUSHING TO HAVE THE PROPERTY PURCHASED BY THE  FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND MADE INTO SOME KIND OF A PUBLIC  LAND, AND THAT WAS RESISTED SOMEWHAT BY SENATOR DOMENICI  WHO SAID AT THE TIME THAT THERE WAS TOO MUCH PUBLIC  LAND IN NEW MEXICO ALREADY.

SO HE CAME UP WITH THIS SORT OF CATO INSTITUTE QUASI-LIBERTARIAN MODEL,  WHICH WAS THE TRUST.

SO HE AGREED TO BUY IT.

AND SENATOR BINGAMAN WORKED VERY HARD TO MAKE IT A  BALANCED EXPERT MEANT.

SO IT WAS AN EXPERIMENTAL  LAND REGIMEN THAT WENT ON FROM 2000 TO 2014.

AND ULTIMATELY THE LAND WAS OWNED BY THE FOREST SERVICE  DURING THAT TIME.

SO THEY WERE THE OWNERS IN  THE BACKGROUND THERE, BUT THE TRUST WAS THIS FUNNY  MANAGEMENT SCHEME THAT WAS AN EXPERT MEANT.

AND WE, WE MEANING CALDERA ACTION, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE  WHO WERE INVOLVED IN GETTING IT PURCHASED WERE NOT HAPPY  WITH THE TRUST AND DIDN'T THINK IT WAS SUSTAINABLE.

IT HAD A LOT OF PROBLEMS, AND I WON'T GO INTO THAT.

BUT IN ANY CASE, WE WORKED WITH SENATOR BINGAMAN AND  THEN WITH SENATOR HEINRICH AND ULTIMATELY GOT THE PLACE  TRANSFERRED TO THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE IN 2014.

SO THAT WAS A GREAT SUCCESS, AND WE'VE BEEN VERY PLEASED.

I THINK OVER THE LONG RUN, THAT'S THE BEST PLACE FOR IT.

>> Laura: SO CATTLE GRAZING IS STILL ALLOWED WITHIN THE TRUST UNDER THE ENABLING  LEGISLATION, BUT YOUR GROUP AND OTHERS ARE WORRIED ABOUT  CATTLE THAT ARE GRAZING ILLEGALLY WITHIN THE PRESERVE.

WHAT'S THE COMPLICATION WITH THAT?

>> Ribe: SO WHAT HAPPENED WAS, BACK WHEN IT WAS UNDER THE TRUST, THEY WERE CALLING  IT A WORKING RANCH.

AND ANYWAY, THAT WAS A  PERSPECTIVE THAT WAS PART OF THE TRUST.

WHEN WE GOT IT TRANSFERRED TO THE PARK SERVICE, SENATOR  TOM UDALL WANTED TO HAVE SOME AMOUNT OF LIVESTOCK  GRAZING TO CONTINUE.

SO THE PARK SERVICE FENCED  OFF ONE SMALL AREA THAT'S AWAY FROM ALL THE STREAMS  AND SAID, THIS IS A LEGAL GRAZING AREA.

AND THEY ACTUALLY HAVE BEEN USING THAT AS A GRAZING AREA  AND CHARGING ABOUT $20 AN ANIMAL UNIT MONTH IN THAT  AREA, WHICH IS BASICALLY ABOUT 20 TIMES MORE THAN  RANCHERS PAY ON U.S. FOREST SERVICE LAND ACROSS THE FENCE.

THE REST OF THE PRESERVE, OUTSIDE OF THAT LITTLE FENCED AREA, IS CLOSED TO  CATTLE GRAZING.

SO WHAT WE'VE BEEN CONCERNED  ABOUT IS COWS THAT ARE COMING IN OFF U.S. FOREST  SERVICE LAND TO THE NORTH OF THE PRESERVE THROUGH FENCES  THAT ARE DOWN, THROUGH FENCES THAT ARE CUT  SOMETIMES, THROUGH THAT KIND OF THING, AND THEY ARE  GRAZING IN AREAS THAT HAVE BEEN -- A GREAT DEAL OF  EFFORT HAS BEEN MADE TO RESTORE THESE AREAS FROM  PAST OVERGRAZING, FROM BACK WHEN IT WAS PRIVATE LAND.

SO WE'RE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT AND WORKING HARD  WITH A BUNCH OF OTHER ORGANIZATIONS TO GET THOSE  CATTLE OUT OF THERE PERMANENTLY, AND IT'S  TURNING OUT TO BE A VERY COMPLICATED PROCESS.

>> Laura: SO YOU HAVE SOME OTHER CONCERNS, AND I'D LIKE  TO TALK ABOUT ACCESS.

WHO CAN VISIT THE PRESERVE?

HOW DO YOU VISIT THE PRESERVE?

AND WHAT ARE YOUR CONCERNS ABOUT THE PUBLIC'S ABILITY  TO COME TO THE PRESERVE?

>> Ribe: WELL, THE NATIONAL  PARK SERVICE IS, OBVIOUSLY, A FEDERAL AGENCY.

THEY MANAGE ALL OF THE MOST VALUABLE LANDS IN THE UNITED STATES.

YOSEMITE, YELLOW STONE, THE NATIONAL MALL IN WASHINGTON, D.C., LOTS OF HISTORIC SITES, AND OTHER PARKS AROUND NEW MEXICO.

THEY ARE -- THIS IS OUR LAND.

THIS IS LAND THAT WE, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, ALL OWN  TOGETHER.

OUR CONCERN HAS BEEN, WE  WANT THE PUBLIC TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS THE LAND EASILY,  BUT WE'RE ALSO CONCERNED AND MINDFUL OF THE SAME THING  THAT THE PARK SERVICE IS UP THERE, THEY DON'T WANT THE  PLACE TO JUST BE OVERRUN WITH HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS  OF PEOPLE JUST RUNNING AROUND DOING ANYTHING THEY  WANT ANY TIME THEY WANT.

WE AGREE WITH THE PARK  SERVICE THAT THERE SHOULD BE RESTRICTIONS TO PROTECT THE  PLACE.

WE'RE JUST A LITTLE  CONCERNED RIGHT NOW THAT THE RESTRICTIONS ARE A LITTLE  BIT TOO TIGHT.

THEY HAVE A GATE THAT'S UP  BY THE HIGHWAY, AND THAT GATE IS ONLY OPEN FROM  9:00 TO 5:00, AND THIS IS A HUGE PRESERVE.

IT'S AN 89,000-ACRE PRESERVE.

SO IF YOU, AS A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC, WANT TO GO WAY  OUT IN THE BACK COUNTRY SOMEWHERE, IT'S TOUGH TO GO  OUT THERE AND THEN BE BACK TO THE GATE BY 5:00 WHEN  THEY CLOSE THE GATE.

SO WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

ANOTHER THING THEY'RE DOING IS, THEY'RE NOW MAKING IT SO A LOT OF THE RESERVATIONS TO  GO INTO THE LARGEST PART OF THE PRESERVE WILL NOW BE  ONLINE THROUGH RECREATION.GOV.

WE'RE CONCERNED THAT THERE'S NOT ENOUGH OPPORTUNITY FOR  THE PUBLIC AND THAT TOO MANY OF THE PUBLIC WHO WANT TO  COME SPONTANEOUSLY -- LIKE IF YOU DRIVE UP FROM  ALBUQUERQUE AND JUST WANT TO SHOW UP, YOU MAY ENCOUNTER  SOME RESTRICTIONS GOING INTO THE BACK COUNTRY.

THAT BEING SAID, THE MAJORITY OF THE VALLES  GRANDE, WHICH IS THE BIG VALLEY THAT'S VISIBLE FROM  THE HIGHWAY, WILL NOW BE OPEN WITHOUT ANY PERMITS OR  THAT KIND OF THING.

AGAIN, WE STILL HAVE THE  GATE PROBLEM FOR THAT AREA, BUT THE PUBLIC WILL BE ABLE  TO COME TO THAT AND GO HIKING OR SKIING OR FISHING  OR WHATEVER, WITH NO PROBLEM.

SO I WOULD SAY OVERALL, IT'S PUBLIC LAND.

THERE ARE TRAILS YOU CAN ACCESS DIRECTLY OFF THE  HIGHWAY WITH NO PERMIT, AND YOU'RE WELCOME 20 DO THAT.

IT'S YOUR LAND, SO PEOPLE SHOULD NOT FEEL RESTRICTED.

>> Laura: SO WE SHOT A SHOW THERE IN 2017, AND I KNOW  THERE ARE SCIENTISTS WHO ARE DOING WORK OUT THERE, AND  CERTAINLY I'VE SEEN MOVIE AND TV PRODUCTIONS, LIKE  LONGMIRE, SO I KNOW WHAT THE VIEWS LOOK LIKE.

AND EVEN THOUGH I FEEL LIKE I AM PRETTY PUBLIC LANDS  SAVVY, WHETHER I HAVE TRIED TO PLAN A TRIP BY LOOKING AT  THEIR WEBSITE OR JUST SHOWING UP, LIKE, I DON'T  FEEL LIKE I KNOW HOW TO ACCESS WHAT THE PRESERVE  OFFERS, AND I'M WONDERING IF YOU HAVE ANY ADVICE FOR ME.

AND I FEEL LIKE, IF I CAN'T DO THAT AND I DON'T FEEL  COMFORTABLE, THERE ARE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF  NEW MEXICANS WHO DON'T.

>> Ribe: YES, AND I WOULD  SAY, BIG PICTURE, THE PARK SERVICE, THE NATIONAL PARK  SERVICE RIGHT NOW, IS DOING A GENERAL MANAGEMENT PLAN  FOR THE PLACE AND ONCE THAT'S APPROVED AND IN  PLACE, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT MORE TRAIL  SIGNAGE, A LOT MORE INTERPRETIVE SIGNS  EXPLAINING THE VOLCANISM AND THE NATIVE HISTORY AND THAT  SORT OF THING UP THERE.

SO I THINK THINGS WILL GET  BETTER, BUT FOR RIGHT NOW, ONE HAS TO GO TO THE  VISITOR'S CENTER AND GET SOME DIRECTION.

YOU'RE ALSO WELCOME TO JUST GO OFF IN ANY DIRECTION YOU  WANT, ESPECIALLY IN THE GRASSLANDS, AND YOU'RE  UNLIKELY TO GET LOST.

BUT I THINK THERE WILL BE  MORE DIRECTION AND MORE SIGNAGE IN THE FUTURE ONCE  THEIR GENERAL MANAGEMENT PLAN IS DONE.

BUT IN THE MEANTIME, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO  GO MEET THE RANGERS, TELL THEM WHAT YOU WANT TO DO,  AND THEY CAN GIVE YOU SOME POINTERS ON WHERE TO MOST  EASILY DO THAT.

>> Laura: AND JUST LASTLY,  YOU MENTIONED THE RECREATION.GOV RESERVATION  SYSTEM AND A MANAGEMENT PLAN.

ARE THESE THINGS THAT THE PUBLIC CAN WEIGH IN ON, OR  HOW DO WE GET MORE INVOLVED?

>> Ribe: THAT'S A VERY GOOD  QUESTION.

THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE  HAS A PHILOSOPHY AND A DIRECTION FROM THE  DIRECTOR'S OFFICE IN WASHINGTON THAT THEY'RE  SUPPOSED TO INVOLVE THE PUBLIC IN ALL OF THEIR MAJOR  DECISIONS, AND WE'VE BEEN VERY CONCERNED THAT, FOR  EXAMPLE, THIS RECREATION.GOV AND PERMIT SYSTEM FOR  GETTING INTO THE BACK COUNTRY DIDN'T HAVE ANY  PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT.

IT MAY BE THAT THEY WILL  HAVE THAT HAPPEN PRETTY SOON, WE HOPE.

AND IN TERMS OF THE GENERAL MANAGEMENT PLAN, THEY WILL  HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIODS WHERE PEOPLE CAN TUNE INTO  THAT AND TALK ABOUT THAT.

I THINK THAT WILL BE  SOMETIME IN THE NEXT SIX MONTHS THAT WE'LL GET OUR --  NEXT SIX MONTHS TO ONE YEAR.

I'M HOPING IT'S SOONER.

THE SOONER THEY GET THEIR GENERAL MANAGEMENT PLAN  DONE, THE BETTER FOR ALL OF US, BECAUSE IT WILL REALLY  MAKE THE MANAGEMENT OF THE PLACE VERY COHESIVE AND MORE  PROFESSIONAL, MORE LIKE A NATIONAL PARK THAT YOU  VISITS ELSEWHERE.

>> Laura: RIGHT.

WELL, THANK YOU, TOM.

I KNOW YOU'VE BEEN A  WATCHDOG FOR A LONG TIME ON THE CALDERA, AND I SURE  APPRECIATE IT.

>> Ribe: I'M HAPPY TO DO IT.

I DO IT FOR THE PEOPLE OF NEW MEXICO AND FOR ALL AMERICANS.

>> Laura: THANKS, TOM.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT GAVE A GREEN LIGHT TO HOLTEC INTERNATIONAL, WHICH PLANS TO BRING COMMERICIAL NUCLEAR WASTE TO NEW MEXICO.

NOW, THE COMPANY AND THE FEDS SAY THE WASTE WILL ONLY BE HERE TEMPORARILY.

IT’S A FORTY-YEAR LICENSE.

BUT SINCE THE U.S. DOESN’T  HAVE A PERMANENT WASTE SITE, THERE’S NO PLACE ELSE FOR  THAT WASTE TO GO.

AND NO OTHER STATES WANT IT.

THERE WAS OTHER NEWS, TOO, YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE HEARD ABOUT.

OUR LAND'S SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS HAS THIS.

>> Laura: ON MONDAY, THE U.S. NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION LAUNCHED A  SPECIAL INSPECTION AT A URANIUM ENRICHMENT PLANT IN  EUNICE, NEW MEXICO.

THE FEDERAL BODY CALLED SAFETY ISSUES THERE CONCERNING AND THEY'VE  ALREADY FINED THE COMPANY $70,000.

THAT COMPANY, LOUISIANA ENERGY SERVICES, BROKE  GROUND ON THE PLANT IN 2006.

THEY CAME TO NEW MEXICO AT THE INVITATION OF FORMER SENATOR PETE DOMENICI AFTER  TENNESSEE AND LOUISIANA HAD OPPOSED THE PLANT.

OTHER COMMUNITIES REJECTED THE PLANT BECAUSE THEY  DIDN'T WANT THE RADIOACTIVE WASTE.

TUESDAY, THE NRC MADE ANOTHER ANNOUNCEMENT, ONE  I'M SURE YOU'VE ALL HEARD ABOUT.

THE NRC ISSUED A LICENSE FOR ANOTHER PRIVATE COMPANY,  HOLTEC INTERNATIONAL, TO BUILD A NUCLEAR WASTE DUMP.

THIS ONE IS DIFFERENT, OF COURSE, FROM THE WASTE  ISOLATION PILOT PLANT, WHICH ALREADY STORES AMERICA'S  NUCLEAR WEAPONS WASTE NEAR CARLSBAD.

HOLTEC HAS CONTRACTS TO DECOMMISSION NUCLEAR POWER  PLANTS IN PLACES LIKE NEW YORK, NEW JERSEY, AND  MASSACHUSETTS.

THE COMPANY, THE UTILITIES  THAT OPERATED THOSE PLANTS, THE COMMUNITIES THAT RAN  THEIR HOMES AND THEIR ECONOMIES WITH NUCLEAR  POWER, THEY ALL NEED SOME PLACE TO PUT THAT  RADIOACTIVE WASTE, AND SO DOES THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

THINGS HAVE CHANGED SINCE WIPP CAME TO NEW MEXICO, EVEN SINCE LOUISIANA ENERGY SERVICES LOCATED HERE.

TODAY ALL OF THE STATE'S TOP ELECTED OFFICIALS, STATE AND  FEDERAL, OPPOSE HOLTEC'S PLANS.

STATE LAWMAKERS EVEN PASSED A BILL THIS YEAR.

NOW, THAT BILL DOESN'T STOP OR OVERRULE THE FEDERAL  LICENSING PROCESS.

WHAT IT DOES IS PROHIBIT NEW MEXICO FROM ISSUING STATE PERMITS THAT THE FOR-PROFIT COMPANY WILL NEED FOR THINGS LIKE HAZARDOUS WASTE STORAGE  AND CULTURAL RESOURCES CLEARANCE.

THERE WILL BE WATER PERMITS AND SANITARY WASTE PERMITS.

AND SINCE THE COMPANY HAS SAID IT WILL BRING WASTE  HERE BY RAIL, HOLTEC WILL ALSO NEED PERMITS FROM THE  STATE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION.

FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT, THERE'S NO PRECEDENCE FOR  WHAT COULD HAPPEN IF HOLTEC SUES, AND THERE AREN'T OTHER  STATE LAWS LIKE THIS ONE.

SO IF, OR WHEN, THE COMPANY  SUES OVER THESE DENIED PERMITS, IT WILL BE A  FEDERAL JUDGE WHO DECIDES WHETHER NEW MEXICO'S LAW HOLDS UP.

SO I HEAR FROM OUR AUDIENCE  ALL THE TIME.

SOME OF YOU THOUGHT SENATE  BILL 53 WOULD END HOLTEC'S PLANS FOR NEW MEXICO.

OTHERS NOW WORRY THAT THE NRC'S DECISION MEANS MORE  NUCLEAR WASTE IS DEFINITELY HEADED TO NEW MEXICO.

BUT THE REALITY IS MUCH MORE COMPLICATED, THOUGH A FEW  THINGS ARE VERY CLEAR.

THE UNITED STATES HAS A  CRISIS ON ITS HANDS.

THERE ARE MILLIONS AND  MILLIONS OF TONS OF WASTE FROM COMMERCIAL NUCLEAR  POWER PLANTS THAT WILL END UP SOMEPLACE.

NOW, MORE THAN EVER, NEW MEXICANS NEED TO UNDERSTAND  NOT JUST THE TECHNICAL AND LEGAL COMPLEXITIES, BUT THE  HISTORICAL ONES.

AND WE NEED TO KNOW THAT  EACH DECISION HAS CONSEQUENCES AND THERE IS NO  EASY PATH FORWARD.

>> Gene: LAURA WILL HAVE  MORE DETAILS IN HER TUESDAY NEWSLETTER, OUR LAND WEEKLY.

YOU CAN SUBSCRIBE BY FINDING 'OUR LAND NM' ON INSTAGRAM.

NOW, BACK TO THE LINE.

NEW MEXICO STATE UNIVERSITY IS BACK IN THE NATIONAL HEADLINES THIS WOKE AFTER A  REPORT FROM ESPN DETAILING ALLEGED HARASSMENT, SEXUAL  ASSAULT, AND INTIMIDATION ON THE MEN'S BASKETBALL TEAM.

IT’S JUST THE LATEST IN A SERIES OF SCANDALS  SURROUNDING THE TEAM THAT STARTED LAST DECEMBER WHEN  POLICE SAY NMSU PLAYER MIKE PEAKE SHOT AND KILLED UNM  STUDENT BRANDON TRAVIS ON CAMPUS HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

THE TEAM KEPT PLAYING FOR THREE MORE MONTHS, BUT  THINGS FELL APART IN FEBRUARY AFTER ALLEGATIONS  SURFACED ABOUT THREE PLAYERS GANGING UP ON A TEAMMATE IN  WHAT POLICE SAY INCLUDED A POSSIBLE INCIDENT OF  CRIMINAL SEXUAL CONTACT.

NOW, CHANCELLOR DAN ARVIZU  CANCELED THE SEASON SHORTLY AFTERWARDS, AND THEN CAME  THE LAWSUITS.

MR. ARVIZU RESIGNED IN  APRIL, ONE MONTH AFTER FIRING HEAD BASKETBALL COACH  GREG HEIAR, BUT THE SAME DAY MR. ARVIZU STEPPED DOWN, THE  UNIVERSITY RE-SIGNED ATHLETIC DIRECTOR MARIO  MOCCIA TO A 5-YEAR CONTRACT EXTENSION.

NOW, STEVE, LET ME ASK YOU THIS.

HOW DOES AN A.D. SURVIVE THAT MANY BLACK EYES IN THAT  SHORT SPACE OF TIME?

THIS IS AN AMAZING  CIRCUMSTANCE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

>> Steve: THIS IS GROUNDBREAKING, YEAH.

IT JUST REALLY IS AMAZING.

THE WHOLE THING JUST SEEMS  LIKE ROTTEN TO THE CORE THERE.

I THINK THEY NEED A PRETTY BIG OVERHAUL DOWN THERE.

>> Gene: IS A LAWSUIT THE WAY TO DO IT?

IS THIS WHAT WE'RE DOWN TO?

NO ONE SEEM TO WANT TO DO  THE RIGHT THING BEFORE A LAWSUIT GETS THROWN ON THE  TABLE.

>> Steve: YEAH, I DON'T SEE  WHAT ELSE THEY CAN DO AT THIS POINT, BECAUSE NOTHING  ELSE IS HAPPENING.

>> Gene: RIGHT.

DEDE, ONE OF THE ALLEGATIONS IN THE LAWSUIT WAS THAT ONE  OF THE PLAYER'S FATHER TRIED TO REACH MR. MOCCIA -- I'M  NOT QUITE SURE HOW TO PRONOUNCE HIS NAME -- TO  DISCUSS THE ALLEGED ASSAULTS, BUT THE A.D. DID  NOT RETURN THE CALLS.

THAT'S AN AMAZING THING TO  ME, TRYING TO HEAR FROM PARENT.

>> Dede: YES, THAT'S RIGHT.

AND EVEN WORSE THAN THE  HAZING AND THE SEXUAL ASSAULT IS THE COACHES  IGNORING IT, AND OTHERS IGNORING IT, AS WELL.

IT REALLY LOOKS LIKE A WITCH'S CAULDRON DOWN THERE  WITH SORT OF INNER -- I DON'T KNOW, SOME SORT OF A  COVER-UP KIND OF MENTALITY THAT'S GOING ON THAT SEEMS  TO HAVE NO END.

>> Gene: ACCOUNTABILITY IS  A BIG THEME AT OUR TABLE TONIGHT IN ALL THE SUBJECTS  WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

JUSTINE, I'VE JUST GOT TO  ASK, DOES THE CONTRACT EXTENSION NOW BRING INTO  QUESTION THE DECISION-MAKING  OF THE BOARD OF REGENTS?

HAS THERE BEEN ENOUGH  ACCOUNTABILITY?

>> Justine: I THINK IT  PROBABLY DOES, AND I THINK DEDE IS RIGHT, THE COVER-UP  IS ALWAYS WORSE.

AND I THINK WE'RE GOING TO  FIND OUT THERE'S A LOT MORE THAN WE EVEN KNOW ABOUT.

I DON'T HAVE ANY SPECIALIZED KNOWLEDGE ABOUT SPORTS,  DIVISION 1 SPORTS, OR SPORTS IN NEW MEXICO, BUT JUST SITTING WHERE I DO, THIS GOES BACK WAY BEFORE THAT  SHOOTING.

THERE WERE PROBLEMS ON THE  FOOTBALL TEAM SEVERAL YEARS AGO WITH THOSE TWO  AFRICAN-AMERICAN COACHES GETTING FIRED, THE RACIAL  EPITHETS, NOTHING WAS DONE AS FAR AS I COULD TELL.

YOU KNOW, YOU HAD SERIOUS FIGHTS, BRUTALIZATION ON THE  BASKETBALL TEAM, NOTHING WAS DONE.

YOU HAD THIS FIGHT AT THE FOOTBALL GAME, ALL THIS  COULD HAVE BEEN ANTICIPATED.

I MEAN, MAYBE NOT  SPECIFICALLY, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE THAT THIS ATHLETIC  DIRECTOR HAD TO HAVE BEEN IGNORING A LOT OF COMPLAINTS  FOR A LONG TIME.

AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT THIS  IS A RICK PITINO SITUATION, BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE THIS MUCH  GOING ON AND COACHES FAILING THESE KIDS FOR THIS LONG AND  IN SUCH A WIDESPREAD WAY WITHOUT THE WHOLE  ADMINISTRATION KNOWING.

AND YEAH, I THINK THE  REGENTS HAVE TO BE ACCOUNTABLE.

AND SO NOW WE END UP AT THIS POINT, GENE.

IN TALKING ABOUT FAILING THE KIDS, THIS KID -- WELL, I  GUESS THEY'RE ADULTS, BUT THIS STUDENT WHO'S MADE  THESE ALLEGATIONS, HE'S A LAS CRUCES KID PLAYING  DIVISION 1 BASKETBALL.

WHAT DOES THE SCHOOL DO?

WHAT DOES THE COACH DO?

WHAT DOES THE A.D. DO?

WHAT DO THE REGENTS DO?

THEY TELL HIM, APPARENTLY,  YOU NEED TO TRANSFER.

NOT, WE'RE GOING TO MAKE  THIS RIGHT, WE'RE GOING TO SEND A MESSAGE NOT ONLY TO  YOU, SINCE THIS HAS UPENDED YOUR LIFE, BUT TO THE WHOLE  COMMUNITY THAT THIS ISN'T GOING TO BE TOLERATED.

NO, WE DON'T DO THAT.

WE TELL THE KID, THIS IS  JUST HOW WE DO IT AT NMSU, AND I FIND THAT TO BE THE  MOST APPALLING FACT OF ALL.

>> Gene: THAT'S WELL PUT  THERE.

STEVE, A VERY TELLING QUOTE  HERE FROM NMSU'S VICE CHAIR OF FACULTY SENATE.

THIS IS IN RELATION TO THE CRAZY RAISE WE'RE GOING TO  TALK ABOUT HERE: "BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH  CHURN IN OUR UPPER ADMINISTRATION, WE NEVER GET  TO THE POINT OF HAMMERING OUT WHO IS ACTUALLY  ACCOUNTABLE FOR UPHOLDING POLICIES."

THAT'S VERY TELLING.

>> Steve: IT'S A GOOD POINT.

>> Gene: YOU CAN'T HAVE CHURN AND HAVE POLICIES BEING MADE.

>> Steve: THAT'S RIGHT.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON  THERE.

DEDE MENTIONED A WITCH'S  COVEN.

I DON'T THINK WE CAN BLAME  THE WITCHES ON THIS ONE.

>> Justine: WELL, WE HAD  THE SAME A.D.

THE WHOLE TIME.

THIS ATHLETIC DIRECTOR OVERSAW ALL OF THIS.

SO WHILE THERE MAY BE SOME TRUTH TO THAT, THE BUCK  STOPS THERE.

>> Gene: HOW DO WE FACTOR  IN, GUYS, THE LETTER FROM THE FACULTY THAT'S NOW BEEN  DISTRIBUTED AND HAVING A BIG PROBLEM WITH THE RAISE AND  HOW IT CAME DOWN?

THIS MAN GETS AN EXTENSION  GIVEN TO HIM ON THE LAST DAY OF SOMEBODY GOING OUT THE  DOOR, SENATOR.

IT JUST DOESN'T FEEL GOOD TO  PEOPLE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THIS.

IF YOU WERE FACULTY IN THE BUSINESS OF TEACHING  STUDENTS TO GO OUT IN THE WORLD AND BE PRODUCTIVE  CITIZENS, YOU'RE SEEING THIS WHOLE SPORTS MELTDOWN,  WOULDN'T YOU CALL FOR AN END OF SPORTS AT SOME POINT?

>> Dede: YES.

YES, IF I WAS A FACULTY  MEMBER THERE, I WOULD BE OUTRAGED.

OF COURSE, I WOULD BE OUTRAGED EVEN BEFORE THE  SCANDAL TO KNOW THAT ATHLETIC DIRECTORS AND  COACHES GET HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN  COMPENSATION AND I GET $70,000 OR $60,000, AND I'M  TEACHING KIDS SOME OF THE BASICS OF WHAT WE THINK  HIGHER EDUCATION SHOULD DO.

I MEAN, THE WHOLE THING DOES  BRING INTO QUESTION THE LARGER MATTER OF, ARE WE  OVERDOING THE COMPETITION AND THE SPORTS AND THE  VIOLENCE AND THE ENTERTAINMENT AND  DOWNGRADING THE ACTUAL EDUCATIONAL PROCESS, WHICH  OFTEN INVOLVES, YOU KNOW, COOPERATION, COLLABORATION,  LEARNING, TELLING THE TRUTH.

>> Gene: HIGHER EDUCATION,  THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

>> Dede: THAT'S WHAT WE PAY THE STATE DOLLARS TO DO, AND  THAT'S WHAT WE PROMISE OUR CHILDREN, AND THIS PROMISE  HAS BEEN BROKEN.

>> Gene: ONE OF OUR REGULAR  PANELISTS, AS YOU ALL KNOW, DAN FOLEY -- OF COURSE,  YOU'VE SERVED WITH DAN IN THE PAST -- HE HAS A SON WHO  PLAYED FOOTBALL DOWN THERE, AND IT'S INTERESTING THE  POINTS OF VIEW THAT HE BRINGS UP, STEVE.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S LIKE A LOT OF LAWSUITS ALWAYS FLOATING  AROUND AND WHAT THAT DOES TO POTENTIAL RECRUITS.

WHO WOULD WANT TO GO THERE?

YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN?

IF YOU WERE AN ATHLETE, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO GO THERE?

>> Steve: EXACTLY.

>> Justine: IF YOU WERE AN  HONORABLE COACH, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO GO THERE?

>> Gene: EXACTLY RIGHT.

WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO GET  CAUGHT UP IN THIS.

>> Steve: I DON'T KNOW WHAT  THEY'RE LOOKING FOR.

AND THE BASKETBALL TEAM, YOU  KNOW, HAD TO CANCEL.

WHO KNOWS WHEN IT'S COMING BACK.

SO I AGREE WITH YOU, DEDE, I THINK THAT THE WHOLE SHEBANG JUST SEEMS ROTTEN TO THE CORE.

>> Gene: LET ME THROW THIS IN AS WELL, GUYS.

IT'S NOT THE ONLY LAWSUIT AGAINST THE SCHOOL.

YOU MIGHT RECALL, LAST YEAR A JANE DOE ALLEGED THAT A LONG-TIME PROFESSOR WITH  TIES TO THE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT "HARASSED AND  GROOMED FEMALE STUDENTS FOR YEARS, COERCING THEM INTO  SEXUAL RELATIONS AND BRAGGING ABOUT THE SAME,"  ALL THE WHILE, SCHOOL OFFICIALS LOOKED THE OTHER WAY.

THE PLAINTIFF ALLEGES SHE WAS SEXUALLY ASSAULTED BY THE PROFESSOR.

THESE INCIDENTS, SENATOR, WERE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN ON  TOP OF EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

SHOULD WE BE ASKING ABOUT HOW DEEP THESE PROBLEMS RUN?

AGAIN, I'M KIND OF ASKING THE SAME QUESTION OVER AND  OVER, HOW DO WE DIG DOWN TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS AND  UPROOT ALL OF THIS IF WE'VE GOT JANE DOES WITH THESE  KIND OF LAWSUITS, AS WELL?

>> Dede: WELL, AND BEFORE  THE LAWSUITS, THERE MUST HAVE BEEN OTHER  WHISTLEBLOWERS.

I NOTICED THAT ONE OF THE  COMPLAINTS WAS THAT THESE WHISTLEBLOWERS HAD BEEN  SUPPRESSED, AS WELL.

>> Gene: THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Dede: AND IT'S NOT JUST NMSU, IT'S ALSO EASTERN.

EASTERN HAS HAD AN INCIDENT LIKE THIS RECENTLY REVEALED  THROUGH A LAWSUIT.

>> Gene: ABOUT A WOMEN'S  BASKETBALL PLAYER.

>> Dede: THE WOMEN'S  BASKETBALL COACH'S HUSBAND, SHE SENT THEM TO HIM FOR  THERAPY THAT WAS REALLY A SEXUAL ASSAULT.

AND SO THERE'S A LAWSUIT THERE, AS WELL.

SO IT'S A BIG PROBLEM IF IT'S NOT ADDRESSED QUICKLY,  AND IF IT'S NOT -- IF THE REGENTS AND THE  ADMINISTRATION DOESN'T DEAL WITH IT, I MEAN, THERE'S  GOING TO BE NO CHOICE.

>> Gene: THAT'S A VERY  INTERESTING POINT THERE.

THE GOVERNOR, AS YOU KNOW,  FILED AN ANTI-HAZING LEGISLATION, I GUESS,  JUSTINE, WE CAN CALL IT.

I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT IT'S  DESIGNED TO DO.

IS THIS A POLICY ISSUE?

>> Justine: I DON'T KNOW.

I MEAN, WHAT WAS DONE -- IF  THE ALLEGATIONS ARE TRUE, WHAT WAS DONE WAS ILLEGAL.

I DON'T THINK THE SOLUTION IS ANOTHER STATUTE, WE JUST  NEED TO OPEN OUR EYES TO WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE.

>> Gene: LET'S STAY ON THIS FOR A QUICK SECOND.

AGAIN, IS THIS ANOTHER REASON TO JUST -- AND I  DON'T MEAN TO BE INCENDIARY HERE -- BURN IT TO THE  GROUND AND START OVER?

I MEAN, DIVISION 1 STUFF,  NMSU SELLS THEMSELVES AROUND THE COUNTRY TO POWERHOUSE  SPORTS TEAMS TO GET PAID BIG MONEY TO GET BEATEN UP ON.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, IT'S  JUST UNSEEMLY.

IT'S NOT A GOOD WAY TO KIND  OF DO SPORT HERE.

>> Justine: I THINK IT'S A  GOOD TIME, AND DEDE POINTS OUT, AT THE END OF THE DAY  YOUR TAXPAYERS DOLLARS ARE GOING INTO THIS PUBLIC  INSTITUTION, A SCHOOL OF HIGHER LEARNING.

IT'S A GOOD TIME TO ASSESS WHAT RETURN WE'RE GETTING.

>> Gene: LET ME THROW THIS ON THE TABLE THEN.

WE DO NOT HAVE AN UNIFIED UPPER EDUCATION SYSTEM.

LIKE CALIFORNIA DOES.

IS THAT THE ANSWER, SENATOR?

PERHAPS TO GET THIS TIED A LITTLE BIT CLOSER, MORE  ACCOUNTABILITY WITH A UNIFIED SYSTEM WITH OUR  SCHOOLS POSSIBLY?

>> Dede: THAT'S A BIG QUESTION.

I MEAN, THAT'S A BIGGER QUESTION THAN JUST THE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENTS.

IT'S A QUESTION OF, LIKE, THE STATE GETTING THE  BIGGEST BANG FOR ITS BUCK IN TERMS OF HIGHER EDUCATION  AND NOT HAVING THE PROLIFERATION OF BRANCH  COLLEGES, COMMUNITY COLLEGES, UNIVERSITIES, THAT  EACH HAVE THEIR OWN REGENTS, EACH HAVE THEIR OWN ATHLETIC  DEPARTMENTS.

>> Justine: THAT MAYBE ARE  NOT COST VIABLE.

>> Dede: YEAH, WHICH MAY  NOT BE VIABLE.

BUT YOU CAN'T TELL THAT TO  THE SMALL COMMUNITIES, BECAUSE IT'S LIKE REMOVING  THEIR HOSPITAL.

THESE ARE JOBS.

THESE ARE IDENTITY.

SO I THINK IT WOULD HELP IN  TERMS OF SETTING THE STANDARDS FOR WHAT IS NOT  PERMISSIBLE, AND MAYBE IF THERE WERE HAZING  STANDARDS -- YOU KNOW, WE'RE ONE OF SIX STATES THAT  DOESN'T HAVE A HAZING LAW.

AND I AGREE WITH JUSTINE,  MOST OF THIS STUFF IS AGAINST THE LAW.

IT IS SEXUAL ASSAULT, OR IT IS RAPE, OR IT IS BATTERY.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING THAT WE'RE ONE  OF SIX STATES THAT DON'T HAVE A HAZING LAW.

>> Steve: IT REMINDS ME OF THE COCKFIGHTING SITUATION A  FEW YEARS AGO, WHEN WE WERE LIKE ONE OF TWO STATES THAT  DIDN'T HAVE ANTI-COCKFIGHTING.

I AGREE THAT'S NOT GOING TO SOLVE EVERYTHING, BUT I  DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE BAD TO HAVE THAT LAW.

>> Gene: LET ME FINISH, TO BE FAIR TO THE GOVERNOR, SHE  ALSO SAID: "IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF HIGHER ED  LEADERSHIP AND GOVERNING BOARDS TO ESTABLISH A SAFE,  HEALTHY ENVIRONMENT FOR STUDENTS AND I'M INCREDIBLY  DISAPPOINTED THAT IT DOES NOT APPEAR TO E A PRIORITY  AT SOME OF THE STATE'S PUBLIC COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES."

DIDN'T QUITE NAME NMSU THERE, BUT FAIR POINT?

>> Justine: A VERY CONTROVERSIAL STATEMENT.

SHE REALLY PUT HERSELF OUT THERE.

>> Gene: RIGHT.

MAYBE SHE SHOULDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT STATE, WHO KNOWS.

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