(cheery music) (cheery music continues) >>Welcome to "A World of Difference: Embracing Neurodiversity".

I'm Darryl Owens.

In the golden age of television, fathers were portrayed as wise and dependable.

"Father knows best" defined the era.

Today, many TV dads are reduced to comic relief, reflecting a societal shift that too often sidelines dads in parenting.

But here's the truth: Fathers play a vital role, especially when it comes to nurturing neurodivergent children academically, socially, and emotionally.

This episode explores the profound impact of fathers on their neurodivergent children.

We'll meet a California dad whose son's autism diagnosis led him on a journey of self-discovery, transforming him into a devoted advocate.

We'll also hear from national experts on the crucial role fathers play in supporting these children, and we'll introduce a remarkable difference maker, a Guinness World record holding triathlete who's redefining expectations for neurodivergent athletes.

We'll begin with the Kim family and Ray's inspiring story of becoming the dad his son needs.

(upbeat music) >>You're going to have to jail.

(family laughs) >>Go to jail.

- When he was born, we thought he was like any other newborn.

We had already had our first daughter.

And he had a really difficult time sleeping, so we just thought, as any parent thought, "Okay, maybe it's colic, maybe he just is hungry all the time."

But eventually, probably by about age one, we noticed that the sleep interruptions, and the disruptions, and the difficulty to be consoled was more than just typical.

He was diagnosed with sensory processing disorder around age two.

So, they, again, recommended us to another specialist doctor, and that's when it was confirmed that he's on the autism spectrum.

I wanted somebody else to take care of my kid.

That's just a honest, ugly truth when I first got the diagnosis report.

I realized that I had to be the one personally as his dad, as a parent, that no one else is gonna do this for me.

And that meant I would have to actually study and make myself aware or more versed in what sensory processing disorder was, what autism is, what speech delay is, what the development of fine and gross motor skills was.

I just felt scared.

I just felt extremely inadequate, 'cause I thought, "Hey, I've never had any experience with raising a child with a special need.

Am I fit to do this?"

I have no other option, 'cause I'm his dad.

So, those are some of the fears I had.

insecurities of, am I gonna be a good dad?

>>That's just in the beginning wasn't easy.

You know, he still have his sensory challenges, and my husband is learning how to be patient, walk with him, you know, taking him around, run around the gym area, you know, then we slowly shoot the basket, you know, slowly dribbling, slowly adjusting and regulating.

So, as I see Owen grow in his regulation, how he regulate himself, I also see my husband growing how to help him to make different steps that make him success.

>>After Owen was diagnosed, I didn't realize how much that was gonna reverse my role as his dad, as a father.

I always joke, but there's some painful truth behind it that I always thought, "Hey, I'm first in a family, 'cause I have to provide and lead the family."

And now, I'm number four.

My whole life, my whole approach to life now has to pivot around what's gonna set up my kids, especially Owen, to handle life.

And so, my role changed from, you know, a term that I've always kind of thought about is I'm not just a dad, I'm a dadvocate.

You know, I'm a dad who has to constantly advocate.

It made me have to develop more emotional awareness, personally, in order to help him process and understand his own emotions through the struggles, through the meltdowns, through the rigidity in any transition.

We really believe that the greatest priority we could put for our child right now in parenting and raising them is surrounding them with great relationships and friendships.

>>I love the fact that even though he has a lot of stuff to do, I like that he's made room for me to put me first instead of his, like, work.

>>I realized that having a son with a diagnosis like autism has been an incredible blessing in disguise.

They're small victories, right?

He hated riding bicycles or trying anything new.

It was just too much stress, too much anxiety-inducing for him.

And so, I remember teaching him how to ride a bike and that was a long process.

And the longest he could ride was maybe one block on a sidewalk, a small block.

We're talking a very small block at the park.

Now, he loves biking.

And I look, I'm thinking, "Wow, he really is into this."

And you know what's crazy?

I was like, "Why are you so into wanting to ride your bike?"

And he said, "This is one of the most relaxing and calming things for me."

>>My son is almost 13.

I would say my husband and him, they're best friend.

If I didn't let my husband lead, I don't think we're where we at and seeing all the different miracles that we saw with Owen and the progress that he made.

>>It takes a village to raise our kids and we would not be able to raise our kids, both my daughter and my son, and even manage the relationship and a balance.

If it weren't for other parents that showed us the way or give us some really helpful tips like, "Hey, you know, Dad, why don't you have a special time with your daughter and then also a special time with your son?"

And what I learned was, it went from being Owen having autism initially, and my negative response was, I thought it was gonna be a problem.

And now, it's become a door of so many possibilities.

>>Thank you for what you've done for me.

I really appreciate it.

Even though sometimes I don't show it.

But I just wanna say I'm thankful for you to be my dad.

(upbeat music) >>Next, our experts explore the vital role fathers can play in supporting their neurodivergent children.

(lively music) Dr. Gilbert Franco is a licensed marriage and family therapist and assistant professor of psychology at Beacon College, America's first accredited baccalaureate institution for students with learning and attention issues.

His prior experience includes serving as lead faculty area chair for psychology at the University of Phoenix, San Diego.

Dr. Franco also served as clinical director for the McAlister Institute in El Cajon, where he supervised marriage and family therapy and clinical social work interns.

His expertise blends academic instruction with practical clinical training and supervision.

Dr. Jeffrey Gardere directs clinical training for Touro College's doctorate of psychology program and is associate professor at his school of health sciences and College of Osteopathic Medicine.

A licensed and board certified clinical psychologist in New York.

He practices with an integrated community healthcare.

Dr. Gardere has authored multiple books, including "Practical Parenting" with Montel Williams.

His first book, "Smart Parenting for African Americans" has been praised for its guidance on raising African American children in today's world.

Dr. Nechama Sorscher is a leading New York City specialist with 30 years of experience working with patients with neurocognitive challenges as an evaluator and psychodynamic therapist.

She holds a PhD in clinical psychology from Adelphi University and a certificate in psychotherapy from New York University.

Dr. Sorscher has published extensively on neurocognitive challenges, trauma in neurodiverse children.

Her latest books include "Assessment and Intervention with Neurocognitive Challenges" and "Your Neurodiverse Child: How to Help Kids with Learning, Attention, and Neurocognitive Challenges Thrive" set for release in April, 2025.

And we're gonna begin our conversation today with Dr. Franco.

We often hear about the crucial role of mothers.

But why is it important to specifically address the father's role in raising a neurodivergent child?

>>Hmm, thank you, that's an excellent question Darryl.

So, children, you know, whether they're neurodivergent or not learn primarily through their parents, through what we call social learning.

Now, having the father, you know, included in that gives a child a different perspective to, you know, to learn from.

If you have just one parent or the other, they just get an incomplete picture, but when you have both, you have a more complete picture of, you know, what it's like to be a individual in society, basically.

>>All right, well thank you.

So, Dr. Gardere, what are some of the unique challenges that fathers of neurodivergent children face that may differ from the challenges their mothers face?

>>Sure, well, Darryl, as you referenced earlier, one of the things we know is that much of the early maturation of a child comes from, in fact, the mother.

Many of the developmental stages are based on that kind of a relationship, but when dads are introduced into the picture, and that's usually later on, that the baby learns some of the cues from the dad, preferential smiling towards the dad that usually comes after the preferential smile towards the mom, that we see the father becomes more important in the picture.

One of the things that we know about neurodiverse children is that when fathers are involved in that particular scenario, if they're not getting the feedback from their neurodiverse child with regard to the father showing love, showing emotion, touching the child, giving attention, and that neurodiverse child may not be giving that back at that point in their early life, that the father may then begin to mirror that same kind of of behavior and begin to pull back.

And that's why it's so important that we talk to fathers about that, that we talk to fathers about their importance in being in the lives of their neurotypical children, but especially in the lives of their neurodevelopmental children, and addressing some of those challenges, but really talking about how they can enhance the relationship within the family, with their neurodiverse child.

>>All right, well, thank you.

So, Dr. Sorscher, I'm wondering how societal expectations of masculinity can sometimes hinder fathers from fully engaging in the care and support of their neurodivergent children?

>>I really like that question.

I think it's really great to include fathers into this conversation.

In the last 20 years, there's been a real difference in how men see themselves and how fathers see themselves, and actually how we see neurodivergence.

So, we really wanna support fathers in parenting their neurodivergent kids.

And one thing that we expect as a society is that men are kind of fix-it people.

And, you know, there's a stereotype, that I think is still true, where the wife comes home and complains to her husband about the boss and the husband goes, "Okay, let's figure out how to fix it."

And the wife says, "No, no, no, no, I just wanna vent."

And men are socially expected to fix things.

When you have a neurodivergent child, you can't fix it.

It isn't something to fix, it is something to help, it is something to celebrate, but you are on a different journey than if your child was neurotypical.

So, men have to be supported in understanding that and also being able to express the feelings that are associated with that.

Because as a society, we don't expect men to express their feelings.

We think they need to be stoic, they shouldn't be cry babies, they need to be calm.

And having a neurodivergent child, and Dr. Gardere mentioned this, the child doesn't act the way you would expect a child to act, and therefore, you're gonna have feelings about it.

You might feel embarrassed, you might feel anxious about the child's future, you might feel angry, you might get depressed.

And with all these feelings, we need to really support fathers in expressing their feelings and being able to then parent their child more comfortably.

And finally, fathers are expected to bring home the bacon.

They are financial providers.

Having a special needs child is very expensive.

So, it becomes so much more stressful for them and they also then have less time to spend with their child and less time to understand their child.

So, we really need to support fathers in being able to spend quality time with their children, so they can really understand them, and celebrate them, and validate them.

>>Thank you Dr. Sorscher, and good advice.

So, Dr. Franco, let's get specific here.

Can you talk about some of the ways that a father who's involved in the parenting of a neurodivergent child can positively impact their development?

>>Yeah, really good question, Darryl.

So, one of the things that, you know, a father's presence can help positively impact the child is through their sense of self-efficacy.

In other words, their belief in their ability to do something.

Now, unfortunately, there hasn't been as much research on the father role perspective as there has been the mother role with regards to this, but there has been some recent research that's been picking up steam in that impact of, you know, fathers.

And the research has shown, or has suggested, that there is a positive relationship between a father's involvement in a child's life and their sense of self-worth, their sense in their ability to, you know, to learn their sense of...

Even their self-esteem in general.

Now, specifically, you know, a father can help by being first being present and, you know, available for the child.

Again, children really, you know, yearn for their parent's attention, whether it's their mother's attention, their father's attention, you know, whatever presence they have, parent is there, they yearn for that attention.

So, that's that first step, right?

Where the second step is to not just be, you know, present, but actually listen to what the child is experiencing.

And then third, provide some positive reinforcement, positive feedback towards, you know, how the child's communicating, so you can further build that sense of self worth.

Again, you know, a child needs, you know, building blocks in order to build their sense of self-worth.

You can't build something without anything, right?

So, by providing that positive feedback, you're giving the child a sense of, "Okay, you know, I'm doing this right, you know.

I want to do more of this."

And, again, that can help a child through that.

>>So, Dr. Gardere, are there any misconceptions about how fathers might have difficulty connecting with neurodivergent children, particularly those with communication issues?

>>Well, as I said earlier, Darryl, I think there are some real issues as far as connecting, and I think Dr. Franco and certainly Dr. Sorscher hit upon the fact that, you know, dads are out there, you know, bringing home the bacon, and they feel that's really what their role is.

Though we know that mom brings home the bacon and brings home the sausage and the eggs, and, you know, has all these different roles.

But you know, that is not a misconception that dad may not be in the house so much.

We tend to see that even with neurotypical children.

But I think what the misconception is that fathers don't eventually warm up to their neurodivergent child, that they remain distant.

And from the many families that I've been blessed to work with who have neurodivergent children, that the fathers in their own way are present.

As the child begins to get older, as the father begins to acclimate themselves to the reality that they have a special needs child, and a child which is an extraordinary child, and who needs a different type of attention, I've seen these dads really get into the situation and be there for their children.

One of the things that I think I'd like to see them do more is be more physically active with their children instead of spending so much time working outside of the house dedicating if they can some more time to their neurodivergent child as far as showing them physical love.

And that's something that we don't see enough of and need to see more of.

So, I would say the major misconception that we really are addressing is that the father is outside of the relationship, is distant from their neurodivergent child, but, really, the bottom line is that dads do their thing in their own way, and it's really important that they do stay involved as much as possible, and shows much physical as well as emotional love to their children.

But this common misconception that they're not involved is really a fallacy.

They are very involved.

>>Watch the full Ask the Experts segment on our website at awodtv.org if you wanna learn more about this topic.

You can also watch or listen on Facebook, YouTube, or on your favorite podcasting platform.

(lively music) Next, let's meet our latest difference maker.

As Sam Holness waits for the starter's gun to sound, he isn't just racing for the finish line, he's racing to redefine expectations.

As the first openly autistic athlete to complete a full Ironman and a Guinness World record holder, Holness is a force in endurance sports and a champion for neurodiversity.

With every mile and stroke, he's proven that neurodivergence is no limit to greatness.

(energetic music) >>People with autism don't usually take part in triathlons.

'Cause autistic people do other sports, such as football, track running, or cricket.

It's, like, I'm invincible.

When I was a kid, it wasn't easy.

I got emotional.

I was not verbal.

It's like my worst come out.

In sports, like, be faster, skilled (indistinct).

(whistle blows) >>You know, Sam is out here competing against neurotypical athletes every day and he's smashing it.

He's in the top 15, 10 percentile worldwide.

To be on ultra-league, he needs to get into the top 5%.

But I look at his results for races and he's beating athletes in his own age group who don't have a neurodivergent disability.

He is starting to learn the euphoria behind winning.

And that came last year when he finished London Marathon in under three hours.

So, it was two hours, 57 minutes, 33 seconds.

And I'm a coach and I'm a dad.

And in terms of what he did, it was one of the most thrilling days in my coaching career, to see him do it, and the joy that was on his face for actually achieving it.

>>That's a endurance sport, because it's swim, cycle, and run.

Half Ironman, a 1.9k swim, 9k cycle, and a half marathon and an Ironman is a double, the big one, the 3.8k swim, 180 cycle, and a marathon.

I'm more of a swimmer.

It doesn't matter if a temperature's cold or warm, pool or open water.

I just enjoy it.

I did remember when I was three, when I set foot in that deep end without arm bands.

I had to ride a bike when I was 14.

And so, you know, 14.

>>One parent said to us once, "Why do you let Sam swim?

Aren't you afraid that he'll drown?"

And our answers are, "Well, if he can't swim, he definitely will drown."

So, you know, swimming's important.

And I think probably when he was about...

When he started secondary school, 11 or so, we decided on finding his gift.

Because if you can find a gift for any child, it doesn't matter if they're neurodivergent or neurotypical, it's something that all parents should do.

When you find that gift, you nurture it.

You know, I treat it like a prized orchid, you know, that's rare and has special qualities.

If you look after it every day, if you talk to it, if you feed it, you give it the right environment to thrive, you will get a beautiful flower from it.

And that's what Sam's become.

You know, here's an autistic young man who has sensory issues, and we sent him to swim in the Pacific Ocean for 3.8 kilometers.

And my understanding is, there's turtles, jellyfish, parrot fish, all sorts of things underneath there.

But he did it.

And then we sent him out on his bike to swim 180 kilometers, 90 kilometers, and 90 kilometers back.

And then he finished that and he ran a marathon.

He has skills and gifts that I would never have.

It's these things that we call challenges that have transformed into his strengths and is a balance in life.

You know, one man's weakness is another man's strength.

What sport is about, is repeat, repeat, master.

Probably 95% of the athletes I speak to when I say, "So, would you go into a trainer for four hours?

"No, God, I gotta go outside.

It's so boring."

"Or the rower for an hour and a half.

Oh, God, I can't do that.

It's so boring."

The other thing about Sam, I compare him to neurotypical athletes, you know.

This guy goes on the turbo trainer for five hours or an indoor a row for 20k.

He liked judo because the structure of judo.

He'd get a white belt, a yellow belt, and so on.

And he's actually a brown belt in Judo now.

The reason he liked it is because it's structured and repetitive, but he also liked rewards.

It's just like how he does, you know, triathlons or 10k runs.

He loves the medal.

>>I prefer a longer distance rather than short distances, because I enjoy the repetitive workouts, long workouts.

Doesn't matter if it's a 5k swim or a half marathon, or a treadmill.

I normally swim with 5,000 meters indoor pool and normally cycle for four hours on indoor cycle.

And the longer the distance, the more focus I get.

And I focus normally to repetitive workouts without worry, but I don't get bored.

I just leave the house and do some exercise.

>>There are lots of athletes like Sam who are fairly unique sorts of athletes.

Sam has a diagnosis of autism, but he has an IQ grade in the 75.

And that barrier when IQ grade than 75 prevents him participating in the Special Olympics.

He can't go to the Paralympics.

So, one of the things that I'm doing as a personal mission is, I write to the IOC, the IPC.

I write to everybody requesting that the rules are changed, to allow athletes like Sam to compete, for a particular category to be set up for athletes like Sam that have an IQ greater than 75 and have proven ability.

I get a DM every day for a parent out there who's just saying, "I've seen Sam's video I've heard about, so I read about Sam.

And it's so inspirational.

You guys have given us hope."

>>I face autism with being my superpower.

It's normally built up my confidence with that super power.

It doesn't stop me from taking part in sports.

I just keep going to the end without quitting.

Don't let your autism stop you from taking part in sports.

Just get out there and do it.

(energetic music) >>Congratulations, Sam Holness, for making a difference.

And that does it for this episode of a "World of Difference: Embracing Neurodiversity".

I'm Darryl Owens.

See you here next time.

You can watch episodes of a "World of Difference" on the Beacon College Facebook and YouTube channels, and on the show's website, awodtv.org.

The website also provides tip sheets and other resources for your parenting journey.

You can watch the show from the PBS app available on your favorite streaming device and you can listen on your favorite podcasting platform.

Thank you for watching and supporting A World of Difference.

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