And now the 419 with Gretchen de Bakker might kill them.

And Kevin Mullen.

Welcome into the 419.

Powered by and presented by Retro Wealth Management.

I'm Kevin Mullen, Gretchen de Bakker.

Tell him it's episode 100.

Guys.

We made it hundo 100.

That's right.

It's a century of show crazy with 100 emoji.

Right now.

Oh yeah.

What a useful thing to say, man.

Yeah, I guess that simultaneously feels like it doesn't.

It's actually a good time to, to mention, in full candor, the people that do the real work and keep us on track.

Richard is just behind the cameras.

Caleb is in the studio.

We have Nathan, we have Angel.

And those people are all integral and doing this.

You you left one person.

Left the executive producer out.

Not not I don't acknowledge that individual.

Oh, yeah?

Well, he's the leader of the pack.

That's what we do have.

We do have a fantastic team behind us here at GT.

And, you know, I talk all the time about how much I enjoy coming in, and starting the day with you guys.

Yeah.

I tell other people that I see the sign we start.

Yeah, we received them, but we got a great we got a great sort of family here at WPP, and it's been wonderful being a part of it.

For a hundred of family, it's the best.

It's script.

It's like we're members of a group.

Yeah, yeah that's right I think it's a nice it's a nice not just I is the signature of kind of the original podcast, right?

Only one of us knows who the guest is.

And I know that we make this joke, and I say, Matt, is the worst at keeping the secret, of any of us, but we legitimately don't know who the guest is.

Do you write grumpy again?

Nope.

Oh, no.

No, no.

I wrote the never have be spoken.

It.

Okay.

You know what you already said?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I get.

in addition to the mystery guest, we're also going to have our friend Sam Melvin in the program.

I think if my calculation is correct.

No pressure on the mystery guest, but it is our 100th episode.

It's our 100th episode.

Hey, hey.

So we brought in the big guns.

We have our city council, and we have our city council representative, Sam Alden.

So I hope he's prepared for some hard hitting questions.

That's right.

I've got some serious questions about traffic and leaves and trash.

Yeah, and and sidewalks.

Yeah.

All the stuff.

All the fun stuff.

Street lights.

Can we talk about street lights that talk about street lights Nice.

Here we go.

Tell me who your guess is.

This person is.

This person is a man.

Okay.

Okay.

This person has had a long, a long career, but he.

He started his work life as a journalist.

Bail him.

Oh, How did you know that?

Because we're friends.

And that's what friends do.

They know things about you.

I didn't tell him, but the guess his lunch.

Well, you really, gave that one away.

All right, well, I guess when we come back, we're going to talk to Dale Evans.

Yeah, I'm here on the 419.

We'll be right back.

Support for the 419 comes from Witch Row Wealth Management, where we understand that your financial path is personal.

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The 419, powered by GT is made possible in part by supporters like you.

Thank you.

Welcome back into the 419.

Powered by the 100th episode.

And the first time that we've had, I think successfully.

Guest six as a guest.

Guest.

And.

Well.

And, Gretchen can't keep her mouth clean.

Yeah.

That took a long time to get there, I think, I think the boys feel like I should get credit, because every time, Gretchen swears a muppet dies.

Yeah.

I mean, you jumped right on that.

Yeah, one.

One clue, but you don't know deals.

I guess you every mystery guy, even when they're my own.

So.

So the mystery guest is indeed.

Dale.

Do you had other clues?

I really wanted to get?

Okay, so I have journalist, high level participant in the legal system that Wrangler, that wrangler, friend and neighbor and Ohio State University graduate.

And also one of the cool things our our National Public Radio or FM 91 listeners may recognize as they celebrate their 50th anniversary.

Dale father's law firm was a long time supporter of FM 91.

And I remember even as a kid hearing the ad for or the promotion for M Schaefer shop in Porcello, which was a law firm that supported National Radio in the morning.

Yeah.

And and you were the son.

And now here you are.

And here I am honored to have 91 show on public television.

But your name is frequently mispronounced is pronounced Dale.

You got that?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Heavy on the d. So.

So, Dale, walk us through.

If people don't know you.

Gretchen says you're highly involved in the legal system.

Kind of catch us up on on.

Who is Dale m there?

I am the law director for the city of Toledo.

So I'm the chief legal of, legal advisor to the.

So the apparatus of the mayor, city council members, all the city administration, the officers, the police department, fire department, public utilities and, prosecutor.

I am statutorily.

Yes, the out of the prosecutor's office, even though I wouldn't know how to prosecute a case.

But we have a chief prosecutor over there who's running things from day to day, so.

And then I run the department well before I find out.

So that.

So that match case can get dismissed on Friday.

Don't miss the question.

How do you fill in, time for all the thank you's and pats on the back?

You get?

Yeah.

Yeah.

How do you balance the the just the the good faith, the notes under the door, the Edible Arrangements, the community, the support is overwhelming.

It's.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's a lot from the clients, right?

Yeah.

I mean, there's a general love of lawyers, but also, I mean, you're only 24 years old.

You look terrible.

Yeah, yeah.

So not only a lawyer, but government lawyer.

Yeah, sure.

Popular.

That's right.

Two for two.

But you and I, I actually, I had, I had, a reason to call Dale several years ago.

I'm not sure if I'm.

It's my story that he was calling another another, but had a. Yeah.

I don't know what it was.

I got a letter from the city I owed money that I didn't realize that I owed and and called Dale.

And not like that's called fraud.

Not like that one.

Right?

Yeah.

No, but not like called like a friend, but like, I ended up calling the office.

Ended up talking to Dale and was very kind, kind of walking through.

Well, let's talk about taking care of it.

So many things.

And you and I started on the first day of the administration together.

I remember standing in the hallway before we even knew where offices were trying to figure everything out.

But so many calls land in the law department, many because people don't know where else to send them.

But what what kind of does your day look like as law director?

There's a number of members of the law department, so can you just talk a little bit about what your role is day to day?

A lot of meetings, as you know, and it really changes day to day.

And that's what makes it interesting is that, yes, I can come in with a schedule, but that schedule can get turned over on a ten.

The drive in.

Yeah.

Really.

Sure.

And there can be yeah.

Phone calls in the drive in and then suddenly we're off to the races going in a different direction.

And, and that's kind of part and parcel with being in the mayor's office is, you know, better than most does that things move fast.

And there's always a, a new issue that we have to deal with.

When you, let's go back in time, sort of.

You grew up here in the city of Toledo.

You can you tell us a little bit about your family and, your dad's practice and that kind of stuff?

Yeah, I grew up in the Sylvania area, and, my dad was Richard.

He had was the firm Schaefer Shop.

And Porcello, as you mentioned, is a patent law firm.

And, so great, great childhood.

I had three brothers and my mom, who was a school teacher.

Where'd you teach?

She was, a kindergarten teacher most of her career.

And at Highland Elementary School.

I'd forgotten this, but, And so forgive me, but where do you fit?

In the order of the birth order?

Third, third.

All right.

Favorite child?

Yeah, absolutely.

Most of all adjusted.

Yeah, yeah, actually, we have had some family members of the same.

Yeah.

Your wife is here all done.

Yeah.

There's extra surprise.

That's right.

Yeah, yeah.

So you went to Ohio State University.

What?

What did you study there?

Journalism.

Yeah, I that's where the money came.

That is where the money came in.

Yeah.

I was always tracking the money.

I was getting journalism and then government lawyer 100% chasing that the whole way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, no, I was a journalism major.

I thought I was going to go into, sports, public relations.

And then I fell in love with the newspaper side of the business.

And I did that for 18 years, went to a few different newspapers, and was fortunate enough to end up at the Blade.

And you had the county beat for a long time.

Yeah, I had the courts beat.

And then I ended up on the county side when I started law school, I ended up covering county government.

You are a sports nut or with the sports portion of it was because you were a big athlete.

What was that?

I liked sports when I was a kid.

I grew up playing sports and not particularly well, but I grew up playing them and I liked them.

And, but, honestly, the closer I got to it, the less I was interested in being part of it.

Yeah, day to day.

And so I liked when I. That's how my dad feels about me.

Yeah.

I don't want to discourage you, but.

Yeah.

It's okay.

It's about you.

He told me.

Yeah, yeah.

No, but it was when I got to the hard news part of journalism is that I really enjoyed that.

So back in the day, I mean, we're talking this was in the 80s and 90s, right?

Definitely.

You're much older than all of us, but the 80s and 90s there were and it was just a different time for journalism.

It was pre yeah, there was it there way journalism.

It existed.

But at any meeting, you know, you guys would be around I Ignazio, I remember seeing around doing all the city stuff, just sort of lurking.

You know, people were people were worried or afraid when you guys showed up.

Can you just talk a little bit about what that time was like and, and the predatory nature of it?

So, I mean, you're right.

I mean, the newspaper, the blade had, a tremendous amount of influence and power and, it was I think it helped shape the conversation every single day.

It made for a conversation.

It made for a conversation.

And there were so we had so many reporters.

When I got to the blade, it was honestly, like, hard to find a desk because there were with so many journalists in that building.

And, and it's unfortunate, but, that they are still trucking along.

Yep.

And my wife's.

Yeah.

This is the time we met.

And she is, she is the executive editor of the The Blade.

Kim Bates, I should shout her out.

Yeah.

Talk to me about why.

I mean, as a as a you know what?

I, as a fellow formal journalist.

As a recovering journalist?

Yeah.

I mean, why is it important?

Right?

Why is a local daily paper important?

I mean, it's a way for the citizens to know what their elected officials are doing.

They are they have that watchdog role.

That's right.

And, you know, and just that influence to to again, let everybody know what's going on and to keep everybody honest.

And you know, it's it's difficult as as Gretchen knows because she was, part of the person who helped shape the message for the administration.

That's difficult to know how to navigate that all the time, but I think for the most part, all of us in government realize how important it is to have good relationships with the journalists.

I think it's a real loss.

I mean, it's a real loss to society about, I mean, look at what's happening on the federal level and the corruption.

And and they're just there's not enough eyeballs on it because there's not enough people that are doing the reporting on it.

Well, indiscriminate of your your belief structure or your politics.

One thing is certainly, I think without the, debate is that we just and we are to blame, meaning the consumers, we no longer have enough information even to make the decisions for ourselves.

Either we're getting something based on clicks or we've already made.

That makes us more, more furious because of our belief structure.

Right.

But we've done the clicks.

I mean, I consciously joke with Gretchen about having to scroll through my newsfeed and by news feed, that's very generous.

Because I get through all the Kardashian stuff and.

Right, Pete Davidson or whatever, and I'm like, why isn't great?

Why?

Because you clicked it, you idiot.

Right.

But there's a, rare book that I read.

Sure.

I was forced to by a, professor, called Amusing Ourselves to Death.

And the the, the tenet of the book was that, this is now 20 years ago.

It focused on the bumper sticker as being the first step in this direction, but its contention was, let me get this read your belief in such challenging cultural, debate or decisions, like pro-life or pro-choice, your entire belief structure fits on the back of your car in this little piece here.

And that was pre scroll.

Right?

Right.

So then came the scroll where you got all the information about Third World dead.

And the political structure with, you know, 4 or 5 sentences.

And we can blame journalism I guess, but we're the ones that aren't supporting it or consuming it in the way.

And now you're posting an X constantly, right?

I mean, making your views.

Yeah.

Well, first of all, that's based on what you need.

Yeah.

And but this being a posting though, Dale, you are a notorious lurker.

I am a lurker.

You don't post anything.

You don't.

I mean, on social media, not not in people's windows.

But you don't.

You don't.

That's an important distinction on social media.

No.

Do you find it?

You don't like it.

So stealing or demoralizing?

What's the word.

Yeah, I honestly, I there was a time when I would gently post about politics and on Facebook or something like that, and I realized there was one moment when I was getting people who I know and and really care about upset, and I thought, this is I'm not changing anybody's mind here at all.

Yeah.

And and so I just sort of at a policy in place, not the post.

And part of it is my position.

I mean, I don't think it's really appropriate to say the way I feel.

Anything you remember, to a tail end of your journalism career, kind of the moment where you realize this isn't what I want to do for the rest of my rest of my career.

I had always had in the back of my mind the idea of of being an attorney.

I didn't there wasn't a path forward immediately.

And then as I started to cover the court system, both that and Fort Wayne and and Toledo, I just was like, this is fascinating to me.

And at not surprising, I'm a kind of a lawyer like you and, like, grouchy and, and so I, I decided to give it a shot and go to law school.

And the blade was kind enough to allow me to go to night school.

That was a big deal, because, you know, I was having to, crank out my story on deadline and then rush off to class.

And so I was on the night program, and and it was a big hustle for any brothers lawyers.

You have one brother.

Brother?

That's a lawyer.

Yes.

Two brothers who are lawyers.

Yeah, yeah.

That guy right about to start another firm.

Yeah, but, the risk of putting you on the spot, and in full candor, I love you.

Your, your your dear friend.

You just mentioned something about not posting based on your position.

It's difficult to be somebody.

And these are my words.

Not to make you in control.

You're of high moral standard and have a lot of integrity.

At least that's what you wrote down for me.

But it you are a human being, right?

So, I mean, things happen and, they make you feel away, and you have to, not necessarily tamp that down.

This may be the best way to articulate it, but you have to be measured.

What?

What is the how do you find that balance?

I mean, do you have, like, a heavy bag in your garage and, God, just pound the crap out of, how do you how do you stay tranquil?

Well, anybody who is around me a lot knows that, I have no shortage of opinions.

Yeah, so maybe I'm not.

And that's why there's a lot of those people.

But, you know, I like my job is to be, a behind the scenes guy.

I feel like, you know, I don't feel like the job is to be of support, to the mayor, to the deputy mayor, and to the city administration as well as council, and to be somebody who helps take their policy initiatives and, you know, be able to help them navigate the legal difficulty.

And so the behind the scenes approach, I think, is of necessity, one of the first things that you worked on when you came to the city, we just have a few minutes left for this segment.

Was the water deal.

Can you talk a little bit about that?

I mean, again, I remember that very first day standing in the lobby of the office.

We were calling the mayor because this was like an imminent thing and all of this stuff change.

It was very exciting, but it was dealing with all of the other municipalities trying to get this deal together.

Can you talk just a little bit about that process and your involvement in it, and how you got up to speed on municipal law?

Yeah, we were we were really pedaling fast on that one.

Gretchen is talking about is the what became the regional water deal.

When we came in, there was an idea of creating a separate water utility where we would no longer own the water plant.

It would be owned by a separate political entity that would have been created, that ran in, not that much longer, after we came in into a lot of, political, choppy waters.

So anyway, the what was going on behind the scenes, what was driving it was that the, the folks in the suburban communities were unhappy about the way in which they view their being treated by the city of Toledo.

And, and their position was that we were weaponizing water.

And, as, as a former utility director said, it's not a good model when half of your customer base is upset with you.

And so AT&T has never felt that way.

Yeah, yeah, that's a shame for that 75% range.

Probably they'll go oh that's okay.

So we created the the regional water system.

And that just means that the the folks in the region, this is a mommy's and Perrysburg have a seat at the table.

To talk about, water rates and the way we invest in our utility and, it's been important because I think that the mayor showed that he was, a different type of mayor.

He was going to be a cooperative regional mayor.

And, you know, even though that was really difficult right off the bat, I think that that helped show everybody out there that he was concerned with trying to grow as a region and trying to be a leader in the region, probably also helped you guys be even more cohesive as a team.

Oh, yeah, it was it was difficult.

It was interesting.

We're talking with Dale and Gretchen's mystery guest here on the 100th episode of the 419.

We'll take a break.

When we come back, we'll continue the conversation with Dale on the 419 powered by.

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Welcome back into the 419.

We're talking with the law director for the city of Toledo, Dale Amish, who is Gretchen's mystery guest.

Yes.

And not just a mystery guest, but also.

Yeah.

The mystery to me is, if you had to describe, I know we're going to give Gretchen's wacky quiz to you, but if you had to describe Gretchen's lawn care, and just general outdoor maintenance in just as one phrase, negligence.

You can't.

How would you describe it?

A little bit teed up for you.

Gretchen has had a nutcracker statue in her front yard since the first Bush administration that's been gone for weeks.

Oh, it must have collapsed.

It rusted out for weeks.

That's big.

This week.

The squirrels finally got to it.

So you notice from.

You are also Gretchen's neighbor.

Gretchen's neighbor, the little caretaker.

Yeah.

Often are you delivering, you know, a cup of flour or an egg or something that Gretchen has?

He doesn't do that so much as I'll say, Dale, there's water coming out of this thing in the basement.

Did you come over?

And he comes over, and then he YouTubes it?

Yeah.

Fixes it.

I a lot of YouTube and there's a lot of snow blowing.

Yes.

None of Amazon packages takes make trash cans in and out every day.

Every week.

I mean yeah.

Which I don't even ask him to do.

He just does.

But I do think, though, that one of the things about my favorite Gretchen experience and my my mother and stepfather live catty corner or kitty corner from Gretchen, one of my favorite Gretchen's is that she leaves her porch light on.

That's the end of sentence.

The only problem that's the only time that's really problematic is Halloween.

I forget because, yeah, that's it leaves town.

Or she goes to the former Masonic, to worship as she does, which is a different show.

And kids are lined up.

Yeah.

Kids ringing the doorbell.

All they want is a candy bar.

Yeah, with the lights on and the doorbell doesn't work.

So what?

What is the.

What's been the hardest part about being Gretchen's neighbor?

The stench.

I am very fortunate.

I Gretchen's a great neighbor.

Thank you.

I who did you buy your house from?

Yes.

Dale and my former next door neighbor, Keith Koski.

Yeah.

My boys and they.

Mike and Laura and Dale.

How many of those people have moved out?

Yeah, two of the three.

That's right.

Yeah, but they renovated the house and then I bought it from them.

We take, like a total scam deal.

The neighbors bought the house.

Yeah.

Three, three couples bought the house because we we were concerned because it because of the state that it was in at the time that it was going to be sold.

And they're going to be I love you too soon.

But we thought it would be packed with a bunch of UT students.

And so, Justin, you were already playing too much beer pong.

Dale.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, I probably missed out another.

The really, hit the nail on the head there when the goal was to avoid getting a negligent neighbor.

Yeah, I'm a bad.

But the one of the best story about Dale ever.

Ever.

I've lived there almost ten years now is when he wrangled a bat out of the house.

I did I did put a trench coat over his head.

We opened the doors.

She came in fully nude.

I went, I went from hero to like, coward with with a trench coat.

Sort of the reverse superhero.

Patriot glasses.

Yeah, yeah, forget about it.

Killing himself.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

As a fellow dragon slayer, this is a show.

It's on PBS.

So there's a lot of education on this program.

As you'd expect.

They'll give us some tips to bat, bat wrangling first.

Look up on YouTube.

I don't have a bat.

Right.

And and then you go out, you open the windows.

That's what they always tell you because the bat wants to get out, turn the lights on and off inside the house.

Yeah, we have the porch light on for days they want to go towards.

That's why she like, go towards the light.

That's right.

Yeah.

So you are, attempting to get back back onto some sort of a track here.

So was city.

City law director.

I know we talked about the water deal.

I'm interested in what are other kind of daily interactions that somebody in the city may have that you can say, well, that's the that's the role of the city law department, right?

That's something that that I would have purview over, that people may not realize they've interacted with you or, or something within your responsibility.

Well, again, we're the behind the scenes people.

And so we're to stand up.

What what it is that, the mayor and the council members want to do.

But you had brand and sell horse ton not long ago.

And Brandon and the mayor had a great idea about the community investment Corporation standing that up again, where it takes, the income from the, Joint Economic Development zone and Rossford and channeling it into this Community Investment Corporation and then leveraging that money with bike, being able to go out for bond, making shovel ready sites.

So those folks came up with the idea we were the behind the scenes of helping to to navigate the legal waters.

But the place where I think most people, unfortunately, interact with us would be over at municipal court.

And because they're over there, because they're defendants or they're over there because they're victims and we're trying to help them.

And so, I think that's probably our most public facing piece is the prosecutor's office.

You have, already, a lot of hardware in your case, trophy case.

So there's probably a multitude of answers to this question, but the others are a particular project or something that you've been a part of that, has put wind in your sails or that you're particularly proud of?

Well, Gretchen, touched on it earlier.

I'm proud of the role that our department played in the regional water.

It was, you know, through the mayor's leadership, that we were able to do that.

But, again, that's a consequential thing that I don't think most people in the community would have any reason to realize.

It's consequential, and it's consequential because we were able to secure a, a regional water system that's going to be stable for at least 40 years because we locked everybody into long term contracts.

And so, I feel good about that.

It was a providing stability with that system.

Yep.

This is going to I'm this will be a difficult question to pose, but I'm curious of this.

I am not an attorney.

Based on a Gumby, an intellect.

But when you if you were to describe what good counsel is, how do you describe it?

Listening.

You know, really understanding what the client's subjective is, and then, you know, hitting the books and trying to help them navigate difficult, difficult waters.

They it's a we're kind of at least in our role where the where the well or know people.

Sure.

A lot of the time which is frustrating because right now the mayor and the council members, they want to do do this.

Yeah.

Let's go, let's go.

And that's their job.

That's what they want to do.

And so there's a natural tension there.

But but you know, being able to understand what they want to do and try to get them there and trying to get them there in a way that is legally acceptable.

Can you talk a little bit about the team, the about the department?

There's some people there that have served a long period of time, but also there's the different sort of subject matter experts that you have in the office.

Yeah.

Without the team, it wouldn't be possible.

I mean, I don't get to practice law on a day to day basis just because I've been, you know, the administrator for the office.

So I rely on all of the attorneys.

We have 29 lawyers in the department.

Who's the worst one?

I can tell you, because some of the best people are, but we are a general counsel is Paul Sarian, who's been with the department for 25 years.

He's just a wealth of knowledge.

And, he calm, he's so calm.

And he he heads the general division.

Jeff Charles as our litigation chief.

And Jeff has been with the department for 20 years, plus.

And then Rebecca Facey has been with the city, a shorter amount of time, but about three years as our chief prosecutor.

But she came to us with as an experienced attorney from the county prosecutor's office, with a real expertise in domestic violence prosecutions and so important and, and so a wonderful team.

And then we just have a bunch of really talented lawyers that I would put up against a lot of the law firms in the city.

I had good fortune of being able to attract some, some younger attorneys from firms because we're able to offer them, an interesting practice and a lifestyle as well, where they're not grinding on billable hours and it's full time and it's really everything.

I mean, people sue the city.

You sometimes have to sue other people.

People think that the city should be responsible for something.

Car accidents, maybe injury cases.

Then you have all the HR issues, then you have all of the administrative issues, then you have union related issues.

I mean, it really is the gamut of of a huge civil law firm.

Yeah, it's the scope of the work is enormous.

And and you're right, we spent a lot of time defending cases where, most frequently when we're litigating, we're in federal court a lot.

And that's an interesting part of our practice.

But yeah, it's it's a huge scope.

And then just providing the advice in addition to doing the sort of more traditional lawyering things I think people would expect.

You mentioned you're the warrior know people, right?

So I'm, I'm curious, what are the guardrails that your department uses, right?

I mean, is it prison?

Is it a I mean, is it are you going back to municipal code, you know, state law, constitution documents or some of this?

Just a, you know, sort of doomsday scenario going, man, this is this could really end up here.

Yeah.

I mean, we certainly part of our role is to be advisors as the counsel part of it.

But no, we would start first with our city charter.

That's the, our sort of backbone, our, our Bible.

And then of course, the, the concern, everything you just said the Constitution and our municipal code and and state law to a lesser extent.

Is there anything that you've wanted that you've wanted to do that you know, either with the department or in the city that that hasn't been able to happen yet.

Besides, quit?

I don't want to play, no, I again, I what I've tried to do is position the department to be able to provide the support to the administration.

I keep going back to that because that's really our role.

We've done some important things again in that public facing, forum, which is, has we beefed up, the way we handle domestic violence cases and, and so that's an important thing.

Yeah.

Not unfortunately an important but yeah, it's so important and there's such difficult cases to prosecute.

But that's something where I think that we've, we've changed things up a little bit with the, the direction that Rebecca has given.

So, again, it's, the risk of putting you on the spot.

You handle an overwhelming amount of things.

You're the son of a prominent attorney.

Where do you see counsel?

And have there been times when, you're in your office and you're like, can I handle this?

I mean, this there you are.

Incredibly smart and certainly competent.

But again, you're a human being and you're dealing with, really complex things.

Both, in text, but also human beings are the side of it.

Right.

So have you ever been like, I'm gonna hit the panic button here all the time?

Yeah, sure.

Yeah, yeah, I don't mean really all the time.

We've got we've got a good internal team.

I've had a group of people that I turn to in those situations, but, my in-laws have been in the legal community forever.

Judge Bates and Julia Bates, the, the county prosecutor.

And so, you know, Julie's has been the prosecutor for 30 years.

And so she knows a lot about what it means to represent people in the government.

And so I certainly will turn to both of them for advice.

And and then, you know, every now and again, I'll reach out to a predecessor.

Sure.

And, and, and see how they might have handled the situation.

All right.

Dale, you've got you have the pleasure of living next digression.

Yeah.

So clearly, you know what it's like to have fun.

It's now time for Gretchen's wacky quick quiz.

I would ask for rapid fire questions.

Gretchen's going to ask you to describe Toledo in one word.

And you and Matt are going to list off the nine best things in Toledo.

All right.

Question number one.

Which apps do you use most?

And remember that we have FCC rules on YouTube.

ChatGPT.

And Claude lately.

Okay.

What was your favorite book growing up?

Salem's lot.

Creepy.

Creepy.

And maybe.

That's how they knocking at your window?

Yeah.

Don't let him in on you at drawing.

Very, very bad drawing.

Drawing?

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

And then what's your favorite dance move?

Oh, boy.

Oh, God.

The scenery.

Like the John Travolta thing, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you should change that up.

Okay, so what's your what's John Travolta just done?

I. Yeah.

What's the one word you would use to describe City of Toledo?

Nice, man.

Okay.

All right, buddy, you and me, nine words are the your favorite parts of the city and or region.

Yeah, nine words I associate with the city, which can change anywhere you want.

Family, community.

Kim.

Family, community.

Okay, that's three livability.

Livability.

Okay.

Metro parks.

Thank you.

Restaurants affordability.

Restaurant affordability.

Gets it.

Friendly people.

Nice friendly people.

That's only eat.

No, that's friendly people.

So I get nine friendly, friendly friendly and people I don't I don't recommend you litigate the lawyer.

No.

Yeah.

What is something that you and Kim would do on.

You're not working.

You're working on a Saturday morning.

What are you going to go out and do in the city?

Kim is probably going to go out for a very long run.

Yeah, yeah.

And I would maybe try to separately go out for a very slow, meandering run.

I love it, but yeah, that's type of stuff that and and getting on our bikes and pedaling around the city and there's a lot of family stuff.

My mom is still in town and Sylvania, so we will visit her there.

You you kindly brought a gift.

I, as Gretchen required Toledo swag.

So the swag, just you guys can fight over the tote bag.

Okay, I get it, everybody.

Oh, cool.

Everybody gets a little something.

Oh, this is so nice.

Yeah.

Thank you.

So fighting fighting for position on your table.

And I presume these are made of blood.

Yeah.

Well, let's say yeah, we're all about.

Let's say I love this.

I do too, so thank you.

You're welcome.

Thanks for being here.

Thank you so much, I guess.

Thanks for having me, you guys.

Yeah, buddy.

My cans out tonight and forever.

Oh.

That's right.

Yeah.

You know what?

You're just enabling her.

At some point, you have to teach self-reliance.

It's really.

It's a sense, my esthetic when I see them.

Yeah.

So I have to take them.

I can leave them out there all week, I don't care.

Yeah.

His problem.

Really?

You should train the bats to do it.

Yeah.

So, Dale, thank you so much for joining us.

We take a break.

When we come back, we'll be joined by our friend and Toledo City councilman Sam Melvin here on the 419, powered by.

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Spring air issues and employee well-being go hand in hand.

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Welcome back into the 419 powered by ZTE.

It's episode number 101.

And so we're so blessed to have a good friend of the show city Councilman Sam Melvin.

It's an honor to be here.

Welcome to the show 100.

I know you don't, I cannot, I can't.

They they almost let us get all the way to 101.

I love it.

And, Kim, before we start, can we can we talk about my favorite comment online in the history of, oh my gosh, it's so true.

So good one.

Yeah.

The best description of our show.

I've never felt so offended and and a compliment.

I dove into us out of nowhere.

Okay, so let's say we're pretty good.

I don't have a lot of comment envy, right?

Yeah, but I wish to.

Any deity of the 3000 made up one.

Yeah, that I had that to say that right.

It is so good.

So there was an article in the blade written about our podcast.

Yeah.

And this was at a time when the blade allowed comments right on their story, when steel had.

Yeah.

Robert.

They had I hope there's like seven different Robert Siegel.

Yeah, yeah.

This is what ended the comments.

Actually it's after this comment was pretty good.

No point to have anyone.

Yeah.

You put your people on them.

Yeah.

You know what?

They were waiting for one person to win the comment section in this comment one.

And it was the only redeeming quality of Kevin Mullen is that he's not Sam Melvin.

Pretty good.

I have been laughing about that.

Yeah.

Sometimes I get down right.

Everybody everybody does.

It's also so true.

But whatever.

But what is accurate whenever I'm down, when I'm sitting in low, that's does that that just that yeah.

And it what it does is it.

I don't know a lot about physics, but shoot me right to the top.

Tattoo of it.

It's in your wallet.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

That's right.

Yeah.

I keep a small binder.

Do you think that that comment needs.

And what does it mean?

It means so much.

Yeah.

It's meant so much to mean so much.

It's layered.

I like that, you know, the only redeeming quality that's on there is not one compliment.

There's nothing I still of it.

Yeah.

You're so good here.

And and at no point in the article that it mentions Sam.

No, I think it's a point of this had nothing to do with me.

It's wonderful.

And, Sam, when did your mom write that?

Well, she had it.

Yeah, once she met Kevin.

Yeah, she knew right away she's been really hit.

Send.

She said there's at least one good thing about him.

Yeah, that's right.

I'll take it.

Oh my gosh.

All right, so you serve as, city councilman representing district five?

Yep.

Which is Gretchen and, my neighborhood.

Yes.

Why we ask this?

Most of our elected officials on the program.

Like, why have you done this to yourself?

Right?

Of all the things that you could do to make a living, to build a community, to build a family?

Why run for city council?

Yeah.

I mean, so for me, it truly is an extension of just making this community better.

You know, it's interesting, you know, as you think about different things and the challenges that Toledo face, I think they're they're generational issues.

They're systemic things that we have to solve.

It's not just one resolution that we honor someone you know, or one ribbon cutting that you go to.

It has to be thinking about issues beyond term limits and thinking about them really in terms of generations.

And so my wife and I have three not so young anymore children.

But when I started running for office, you know, they were definitely single digits.

And my youngest was, you know, 2 or 3.

And so I was thinking, what does this community look like when they're making a decision about where to live, where to buy a home, where to start a business, where to settle down, where to, you know, come back from grad school and figure out what's next.

And I hope that that's in the city of Toledo, but I certainly want to do whatever I can to make sure that it's in this region.

And that's not just to my kids are nearby.

It's not just a totally self-serving thing, but I think that if you think about that as your North Star, everything that it takes to make that type of community makes a better community for everyone and for every other parent in Toledo in the region, when they're thinking about what their kids need, it kind of addresses that, too.

So that's what got me into it.

I've always been in nonprofit work, you know, public service is is a lot like that.

Certainly a more steady funding stream, but also more issues, more scrutiny.

So it's all part of it, but I really think it is about the community.

Speaking of funding, you know, municipal elected officials, certainly the mayor and council speak through the budget that they pass, and the priorities are in that budget.

Can you talk a little bit about the the recently passed budget for this year?

What are some priorities in there that you're pleased are in there?

And how does that speak to what your priorities are for district five in the city?

Yeah, it's a it's a great question.

You know, I had an old friend, a mentor who said that, you know, a budget truly is a story that you're telling.

It's a visionary documents to your right to say that that's how council and the mayor speak about what their priorities are.

You know, right off the bat, it's important.

No, it's like, think 70 to 80% is public safety.

So that's just what the numbers are.

And I think it's easy sometimes for media to look at what is being cut or what is different year over year.

And so this past budget cycle was a tough process.

We passed it on the last possible day, that you that we are allowed to pass the budget.

Can you provide some context for 80% of this figure?

I mean, is that $800 million?

Well, yeah.

So think about it's like $1 billion budget.

That's right.

And that includes daily increases, bloated, salaries, no doubt about it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's an eight in it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's right.

No.

So you know we were getting a lot of kind of kickback this past year that you know we waited until that last possible day.

I would just say how how do you make a decision on spending $1 billion?

Do you just do that overnight?

Do you do that quickly?

And then if you had 12 people, city council all working together to do that, do you think that might take some time?

And so I was glad that we were very deliberative about it.

We had, you know, a budget is fundamentally, you know, your yes to one thing is, you know, to something else, but we don't have the pleasure or the luxury, I should say, of passing a budget that is not balanced.

Right.

We have to ask about the budget.

What's something you fought for to be to be included in the budget that that got in?

And what's something that you fought to get in that didn't?

Yeah.

Great question.

Two things.

One again is with public safety.

So last summer, we had a really great opportunity, from a community partner of Mercy Health to put a kind of a police substation near or in, Saint V's over on Cherry Street.

And what that meant was moving the northwest substation from Savannah Avenue.

That's in, in district five.

It's very, very important to my district and several neighborhoods there.

And so, again, you're yes to one thing is you're notice something else.

TPD has certain challenges.

They are faced with.

If they move all their employees there, what do they need this building for.

So I understand that.

But we need to maintain a police presence in West Toledo.

You know, whether or not it is a substation.

That's a very interesting conversation.

I think there's actually a framing problem that the community thinks that police officers are in and out of that building every single day, and that's not true, but that's what they think.

And so how do we maintain a police presence in West Toledo?

And so what we did in this past budget cycle, I fought for $500,000 to reestablish a community policing presence in West Toledo.

And we're getting creative about how we do that.

But that got in the budget, and I was very, encouraged that my colleagues supported something that did not get in.

So we have a vibrancy initiative that has a 25 extra turns.

So you've had Brandon sell on who's wonderful and he's come up with very, you know, worked with his team to come up with some new programs.

But it's all under the umbrella of the Vibrancy initiative.

So a facade grant program, a white box program.

This is that this is what's supporting small businesses, helping them grow.

Take the next step.

Stay in Toledo, get off the ground at all.

And there's a 25 x return.

How many things in the budget when you put a dollar in, do you get $25 out?

Yeah, right.

Well that's what's true with the vibrancy initiative.

So every single budget I'm a part of as chair of economic development and innovation, I try to plus that up as much as I can.

I tried and unfortunately we had to cut some things and so we still funded it.

But we're not going to able to do as much as we have last year.

So, we're right around the same, I should say.

Sam, I work for an agency during my day job.

That has has a lot of initiatives.

Right.

We have a monthly board meeting that has a package created for it.

I'm involved in 90% of that packet.

And when it comes out for us to review, I actually have to review it.

Although I'm involved in the work, I t that t that up to ask you, as I have, your fellow council people, how how can you possibly consume the amount of information that is provided to you?

I mean, you can't be an expert in all things, right?

But nonetheless, you have to be at least a surface C level or have an understanding of the decisions you're making.

How do you consume this information and not actually, on a real granular level, when do you do this?

In a, you have a full time job.

You're full time dad.

You volunteer.

How does all this fit into what I would describe as at best and mediocre in life?

Yeah, well, you got the last part right.

We really ended that with a. And it was generous.

Yeah.

Generous.

Generous to the full time dad.

Yeah.

That's good.

Well, the whole thing was no no no no no.

That's right.

I think that there's one very important distinction I would draw.

Okay.

Which is you in your full time job, you are a staff member of the organization.

And I am not a staff member of the organization of the city of Toledo.

I think it's very important to think about the city council members as the board of directors.

You have a mayor who's the CEO, maybe the chairman of the board, depending on the business model.

Right.

And then the city council is the elected board of directors.

Their job is not to be a master of every single issue.

Their job is to think about who do they represent.

You have board members, your organization.

They represent the community.

They are appointed to make sure that this organization kind of stays on the straight and narrow.

They're headed in the right direction on behalf of the constituents they represent.

That's really what elected offices.

And so you have 12 members of council whose job is to say, no, we shouldn't spend half $1 billion on that one thing.

No, we should make sure that this priority is reflected in the budget.

Why is this issue taking so long?

Why is that street being repaved with no pedestrian safety measures involved?

And it's so kind of holding.

It's a nice tension.

It really is a check and balance from all of those, you know, things that we learned in school about what government should be.

And so the heart of your question is, how do you balance understanding everything that's on an agenda?

And I would just say I really rely on the directors and the chiefs at the city of Toledo, who this is their day job.

They wake up every single day and try to do their best for the residents, so they get an inherent amount of benefit of the doubt right off the bat.

Now, I have to still have scrutiny and have a critical eye and ask hard questions.

But if I don't offer some benefit of the doubt the same way board members at the Metro parks offer you and your colleagues, then we are off on the wrong foot, right?

And so I think it's really important to start there.

What is the, you know, University of Toledo is smack dab in the middle of district five.

It's an important partner to both to the city of Toledo and and certainly to my neighborhood, Old Orchard.

What, what's your relationship like with the new president of the university?

Are you looking forward to or have you already met the new athletic director?

What's going on with the University of Toledo with district five?

Yeah, that's a really good question.

So actually, it's technically just south of district five, but it's not going to survive.

No, but here's what's the reason you think that is you live in the neighborhood?

Well, I bet the majority of the employees of the University of Toledo, also in the district one, I think it is.

Okay.

I didn't know that.

But it's, you know, it's a large campus and it does feel I mean, it's certainly an important part of that part of our city.

I would love to meet the new athletic director.

I'm certainly rooting them on.

I think, you know, that's a really, really important job, just like the president.

And, you know, Doctor Holloway, I think I'm rooting for him as well.

And all of the team that he's, you know, building and assembling.

You know, my relationship in particular is, you know, kind of as needed.

I think there's an opportunity for the University of Toledo, and we're having some of these conversations to really think about C Corps.

Yeah.

So anyone in your neighborhood knows that I just said the S word, which is C Corps Road.

And so thinking about corps, not just from Central at Kenwood, but thinking about it as a real pedestrian campus corridor from central all the way to door.

I think that's a really interesting opportunity.

And you too would be a valuable partner.

I would like, if possible, for it to be more prime.

Yeah, maybe since Dale is still here watching the show.

Some type of high level crime.

Of course, when leaving Westgate.

Yeah.

Market, where it clearly says clearly there's no left turn to go towards central.

Yeah.

And people go left all the time.

It makes me want to.

Are you still standing there yelling at them when they do that?

No, I try and I try to be close at them chambers in the boot barn.

I usually just hit their car.

Is that right?

Well, a lot of people do.

But the it's so frustrating because it's so dangerous.

And I'm not trying to sound like an old lady, but it's so when you have to try to go that it's just.

Anyway, how many complaints or concerns do you get regular basis about that entire layout?

There?

Many.

Yeah.

So many.

That's why I called it the S-Word.

Yeah.

Look, the psycho road is challenging.

I mean, it's a very attractive retail corridor and incredibly dense neighborhood around there.

A lot of local businesses, a lot of, you know, destination retail.

Like, I think it's exactly.

I think it's like the busiest Costco gas station in the state of Ohio, I heard, which is, pretty.

That's the kind of announcement we want on the show.

Sam.

There you go.

Yeah.

One more time on the camera.

Any time, buddy.

What can we.

Can we move, north on Siegel just a little bit?

Sure.

Cross central.

Yeah, let's let's cross central.

There's a giant.

Yep.

Flat earth, piece of dirt.

Building a house like that, development is coming.

But we don't know what yet.

That's correct.

When will we know and what are the priorities for you as district five city councilman to, to bring to that development?

And why is it a rated.

Yeah.

It was no, I think so.

A couple things I think that it's really important to first of all, the developer there, ability associates with hand is a pro.

Yeah.

She's been her family's been invested on the other side, of course, that Costco side, of what you know, for Westgate for literally generations.

I think it's I think actually, a bel might be the oldest private, like a landowner.

So not institutional, not like the Catholic Church owning a school building or.

Or not like a public entity, the oldest standing private landowner.

It's just really interesting.

So we have a great development partner.

We have some great density, very attractive retail.

So you would be surprised then in 2020, I was sworn in January 2nd, 2020 2020 A bad year to start anything.

Yeah.

That year.

Right.

Except for a pandemic.

Was sure getting that right year to say it was an ideal time whether we like it or not.

It started.

So when an opportunity came across City council's desk to subsidize discount retail in the old Elder Bierman building, I was not that excited about it.

I did not think that putting out a tax incentive just to fill an old building.

Right, with discount retail, nothing against discount retail.

No.

We need all types.

We need the whole the whole coalition.

I didn't love that idea.

So we actually said no.

Yeah.

So one of the first things I did in my tenure serving district five residents was say we no, we don't want that do better.

Yeah.

And it took longer and it took more effort.

And we had to kind of combine some parcels and take down the building and remediate all of the issues that exist there.

But I think what we're going to have instead, and we already approved the deal, so can't wait to see who's going to be there.

We're going to end up with destination retail, which would be very, very exciting.

And worthy of that part of town and all.

The city of Toledo, excellent city Councilman Sam Melton, thank you very much.

We did not get a chance to get to Gretchen's wacky quiz, but we will do it on social media, so check it.

Follow us on all your social channels.

And we'll do Gretchen's wacky quiz there.

Thank you so much for joining us here on episode 100.

We're going to take a break.

When we come back, we'll wrap up this EP, this edition, this episode this year.

I don't know if my words are of the 419.

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Support for the 419 comes from We Trust Wealth Management, where we understand that your financial path is personal.

Advisory services are offered through capital investment advisory services LLC, securities offered through Capital Investment Group member Finra and SIPC.

More information at Retro advisors.com.

Destination Toledo.

Whether you're a local or visitor, Destination Toledo invites you to explore the region and be a tourist in Toledo.

Find events, dining and things to do and visit Toledo talk works.

Spring air issues and employee well-being go hand in hand.

Work spring supports employers through compliance, training and wellness because healthy workplaces don't happen by accidents.

Learn more and work.

Springborg Toledo Refining Company, a subsidiary of PDF Energy Toledo Refining Company is a supplier of fuels that keep our region moving.

Located in Oregon, Ohio, the refinery processes crude oil into gasoline, diesel, jet fuel and other petroleum products.

And Tada!

Celebrating its 55th year of connecting Northwest Ohioans to their community.

More information@tada.com.

Welcome back into the 419 powered by GT as we wrap up our mystery guest edition.

I was nervous because it's you, Gretchen, but they don't understand that I don't either.

Okay, because my guess has been stellar.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

No, no.

And today was I didn't I can feel their beady eyes over so I can't see anything.

No.

Dale was fantastic.

Fantastic.

And I know, I know of Dale, but I don't know that I really know Dale.

So it was great to get a chance to kind of talk to him and, you know, figure out how he tolerates you as a neighbor.

Yeah, that was most interesting to me.

We didn't also talk about the view in his office, which is spectacular.

The glass line, window lined and those windows are, of course, welded shut.

Reason you can't jump.

I will tell you that, Dale, is has a perfect constitution for that.

He does, you know, he is measured.

He is kind of, I guess I would describe certainly as kind, but he's a good listener.

Having to be the no or wait person is really difficult.

So you have to have the intestinal fortitude, which I candidly would really struggle with.

Yeah.

I can't imagine sitting across the table from, you know, Wade or Brandon cell horse coming in with an idea.

They're excited about it being like, yeah, I used to walk down there and be like, just hear me out.

You right?

Yeah.

No, I can say, what do you think about this?

Yeah, I like that out of my office.

I just like gasoline.

And then, of course, you know, thanks to Melvin, obviously, as as somebody who is a friend of his, certainly has supported him politically, excited for the work and grateful for the work he does in our community.

Enjoyed the conversation, having him on the program.

Of course, if you missed any part of the show, you can catch at 7 a.m.

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on Connect channel 30.4, of course online 20 473 65@wjct.org.

Slash the 419 or download the new and improved app.

Thanks to our guests and thanks to you for joining us on the 419 powered by CTE and presented by Retro Wealth Management.

The 419, powered by WGTE is made possible in part by supporters like you.

Thank you.

Oh.