[triumphant music] [triumphant music] [triumphant music] - Hello and welcome to "Comic Culture."

I'm Terence Dollard, a professor in the Department of Mass Communication at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke.

My guest today is an artist coming to us from Israel.

Dana if you could help me out, I'm terrible with names.

I have a very hard time pronouncing names.

Could you say your last name for us?

- Dana Haephrati.

- Well, thank you for sharing that.

Now, we were connected through a former guest and a friend of ours, Dr. Moti Friedman who said that I would be a fool not to have you on "Comic Culture."

And I had a chance to look at some of your stuff.

Now, it's really unique to me, because you are doing comics in Hebrew.

So, what is it about the comic medium that makes you want to tell stories?

- I think that always I had sort of camera in my mind that shoots everything that I experience.

And comics is also writing and drawing.

I like the combination of both of them.

And I think comics, it's the way my mind works.

- You know, there is something that is so much fun about, even regardless of what artistic skill a person has, there's something so much fun about taking a pencil, drawing something that makes you smile or makes you laugh, or that captures that moment.

So, this camera in your mind, as you see these images, you know, again, your work is in Hebrew and I don't speak Hebrew.

I barely speak English.

So, what are your stories about?

Because it looks like it's sort of a slice of life, maybe a look at celebrity culture.

So, what are your stories about?

- The story is based on the experiences that I had in my life.

I tried to write a book and I almost published it.

And this is about the experience of writing and I don't want to do spoilers, so I don't tell it all.

But now I'm working on the continuum of these comics.

Then I can tell more about it.

But yes, it's a slice of life.

- You're writing a comic about when you were writing a novel, am I correct in this?

- Yes, yes, you are correct.

Yes.

- So, that's a very meta, very through the looking glass.

So, the idea of writing about writing, or drawing about writing, what made that pop into your head?

- I tried so hard to write this book.

And I realized something didn't work out for me.

So I just thought, maybe I would write about me trying to write.

And this will work better, maybe.

And yes, it worked.

- When you write a novel, you're writing everything that the audience, the reader has to imagine.

But when you are writing and drawing a comic, you can exclude so much of that writing because you can draw it.

So as a writer, how did that free you up?

Being able to draw something and then just put in the characters, dialogue, or thoughts rather than have to explain that we're outside a movie premiere or there's a limousine or something like that?

- It's a very intuitive process, I think.

I wrote everything before I draw it.

And then I draw what I thought should be drawn.

- They say a picture is worth 1,000 words and each panel that you draw, theoretically, is a 1,000 words you don't have to write.

- Ha, ha!

Yes!

I agree with that.

- I was going to say you are a younger artist than a lot of the guests on my show and I'm imagining that perhaps working on a digital platform instead of pencil and paper might be more natural to you because perhaps you have grown up with technology, whereas people my age didn't.

So is that your experience?

- Not really.

I grew up drawing with pencil and markers and drawing on the computer is a new thing for me.

And I also tried to draw the traditional way, my comics.

And it didn't work, I don't know why.

But at some point I realized I should be drawing on the computer.

And it worked better for me.

- Now are you using, I know Moti suggested I try Clip Studio and I was wondering if that's the same program you're using.

- I use it and both using Photoshop.

Clip Studio paint is cool and very good, but it doesn't support Hebrew.

So I work with Photoshop because it supports Hebrew.

But I recommend you to use Clip Studio paint, it's really good.

- I do wanna ask, because I'm in the United States and we have an idea of what comics are, and I know that in Europe comics are different from that.

And I know that in Asia, comics are different still.

What is the comic scene like in Israel, where I know nothing about it.

- It's a good question.

I think it's mixed.

It's mixed.

We want to draw comics in many ways.

Like, we want to draw like the Americans and we want to draw like the Manga style.

It creates an interesting combination of styles, I think.

There is no Israeli style of comics.

There is not such a thing.

- I think in many ways that is freeing.

In the United States we're sort of, people think comics are superheroes.

And if you want to read something that's more slice of life it should look more in that Manga style, because that's the kind of book that has had that.

So, being able to take all of those influences and put them together and create your own comic language must be very freeing.

- Yes, I agree.

But sometimes boundaries are a good thing.

And I want to learn the boundaries of each style.

Because I want to get better in drawing comics.

Too much freedom is not a good thing.

That's my opinion.

I want to learn the rules before I break the rules.

- Brilliant, that is the way, you know, I think the American artist Lee Weeks once said, half the fun of working outside the box is having the box in the first place.

Because it gives us that expectation that we understand what a comic should look like, but being able to now play off those expectations in a different way makes the final product that much more interesting.

- Yes, I agree, yes.

That's exactly what I think.

- In your study of comics and various genres of comics, in the United States if I wanted to learn more about comics there are universities that teach sequential art as a major, or schools dedicated to cartooning, or graphic design.

So if you wanted to take an academic approach, what are the options in your country?

- These days I'm studying in the... Can I check for a minute how to say it right in the internet or?

- Sure.

- Yes?

- So, wait.

- Why not?

- You know, the interesting thing, again, anyone who is bilingual has an advantage over me.

I speak one language and I sometimes struggle with that.

So somebody who is able to communicate in a second language or a third language, and might not know one or two words, I mean, I find that impressive.

And if you need to check, be my guest.

And I'll just smile at the camera for a moment.

- Okay!

So, I know how to say the place I'm studying in Hebrew, but in English it's called the Israel Animation College.

Soon will be open a course about comics, about American comics.

- When you're studying animation, again, is it something where you're looking at all of this international animation and sort of appreciating all of that?

Or is there a, you know, an Israeli equivalent to, let's say, "The Simpsons" or to "Family Guy" that we don't know about here?

- No, we study things like...

I don't study animation, I study concept art.

The manager of this course is Jordan Gorfinkel.

And soon will be open an American comics course by Jordan Gorfinkel, the main editor of Batman.

And I want to study this course.

Because I want to study how, I want to learn how to draw American comics.

There are not enough places in Israel to study comics.

- You know, again, it wasn't until, I guess the Kubert School in the United States was the first that was really focused 100% on comic art.

And I think it was in the last 20 years or so that we started to see sequential art at other schools taking places of major.

I'm thinking of the Savannah College of Art and Design as another spot that is widely respected in the industry.

So, it seems as if that academic approach to comics is spreading internationally.

And I think it would be interesting to see how that influences the work that people do and if it leans them in one direction or the other direction.

- Yes, I agree.

I feel sometimes that I'm in kind of a matrix and I want to break this matrix and learn as much as I can about comics.

Comics is my way to communicate with the world.

Right now when we talk in this interview, it's hard for me to communicate my thoughts and my feelings and if I would draw comics for you it would be much easier for me to communicate.

Ha!

I think.

- It's true, because you know, it's like a film or television.

We can look at the action that takes place and we can understand it.

But the words might be lost because we might not speak whatever language.

But the visual is always something that seems to make itself clear to the audience.

It's interesting because in looking at your comics, again, you are writing in Hebrew.

And the way that you read Hebrew is from right to left.

- Mm-hm.

- And it's an adjustment for me, as someone who has read from left to right, to try and follow.

But again, not speaking the language, I was able to see what sort of basic scene was going on without knowing all of the pertinent details.

When you are drawing and you are conceptualizing the page, are you thinking in terms of cinema and different camera shots?

Or are you thinking... What are your influences?

Let's put it that way.

- Cinema is the main influence for me.

I studied cinema studies in Tel Aviv University.

And I think in terms of medium shot, wide shot, and long shot.

All kinds of these terms.

And I also studied a storyboard course in the university.

Yes, my mind works like a video camera and I see things visually.

And it's like to translate the camera in my head to the page.

- I know when I draw, my background is television.

- Mm-hm.

- But I will draw when I have free time.

And I really enjoy that moment of pencil on paper or board and I can just sort of get away from technology.

But although I've got the camera in my mind that I can see the picture I want, sometimes it's more work to get there than I was hoping.

So, when you are at that position where you're trying to get the idea down and it doesn't quite work, what is your thought to get past the struggle and get the shot that you can see and you'll be happy with in your story?

- Sometimes I see a scene in my mind and when I draw it something doesn't work for me, so I realize I should give my art more freedom to express itself and tell me what it wants.

So sometimes the comic tells me, draw it another way not the way you thought.

So, I draw it another way.

And sometimes it's hard for me to draw the exact thing in my mind, I just can't.

So, I give up sometimes and I draw it another way.

Sometimes I need to compromise.

- It's fascinating, because I've spoken with people who talk about writer's block and how sometimes they can't write something.

And they realize the block is there to prevent them from doing the wrong thing.

So it's interesting that when you have that image in your mind and yet, the comic or the process is telling you to go in a different way, it's very much like that.

- Recently my comics told me not to tell it chronologically but not in the order I thought in the first place.

So it's an interesting thing.

- When you work with an idea and realize that it works better to take it out of chronological order, what does that do to you as the writer who now has to put context to the image?

So that the audience will understand that this is a previous event, or maybe we're looking at something that will happen later on.

So that we can follow the story and engage the viewer rather than confuse them by having something that may or may not be happening right now.

- Yes, that's exactly what I asked myself.

How not to confuse the reader.

And I see my comics through the eyes of the imaginary reader, so I won't confuse the reader.

So, I put dates.

Like April, 2020.

I put dates.

When I need to.

- That's a helpful tip.

I mean we see this technique in film and television and in comics frequently.

And it's fun to see how different artists approach the same problem and how they kind of work around the idea to make it palatable to an audience that has to accept this.

Now, you say you think of yourself as the audience.

How do you give yourself, I guess the fresh eyes to look at your work and not be too familiar with it, so that you can look for it, and look at possible flaws without feeling like you're too attached to it?

- Sometimes I realize I should give it a break and return to it after the few hours or days.

I need the distance of time.

And sometimes I ask my mentor, her name is Nora Katz.

She is a comics writer and creator.

And I ask her opinion.

Most of the time I ask her and ask myself at the same time.

And I realize in my head without she having to answer me.

And it's good.

Sometimes I need to ask it out loud just to know the answer.

- It's funny, a lot of times we will work on a project that we struggle with.

And when we ask someone their thought on it, we find the answer just by simply asking the question.

So it's interesting.

When you solve your own problem, does the mentor still choose to give you the feedback?

Or do they say, you know, that's the way to go about it?

And it's the process of just merely vocalizing is helpful enough?

- Most of the time she says, just go for it.

And sometimes she has her own ideas that I didn't think of.

And sometimes I accept the ideas and sometimes I don't.

And it's funny, sometimes I just have to send it in WhatsApp the sketch, I send her a sketch of what I did.

And in the minute I send it, I see it in a stranger eye, like in a distant eye.

Then I know the answer.

- That's really interesting.

I had another guest who was talking about how when he works, if he's not sure how a page is working out he'll look at through his phone because the phone allows him to see it with that new set of eyes.

So it's fascinating that you've come across that.

- It works, too!

Ha, ha.

Yeah.

- Now, you mentioned sometimes you'll get some feedback from your mentor that you don't agree with.

So, as a creative person, we have an ego about our work.

And we think that things that we do, that we're proud of, everyone will enjoy.

But when you get criticism that points you in another way saying, this is a weakness, how do you sort of process the critique, so that it's not a negative, but you can turn it into a positive for you?

You don't just say, oh, I disagree because it's my baby.

Instead it's, there must be some merit because I trust this person as a mentor.

- I try to let it motivate me.

To be better than I was yesterday.

And I remind myself that I have a lot to learn and this is the beauty of this thing, that I have a lot to learn.

And sometimes I expect me to be the best in this time, right now.

I should be the best, but I'm not, and it's okay.

It's okay not to be the best right now.

It's okay not to be perfect right now.

And I need to remind myself this fact everyday.

- In many ways we are the best we can be at this moment, but we don't necessarily, we're never the best that we can be.

It's just the best that we are right now as we evolve and we get better with practice.

I'm imagining that if you look at something you were working on two years ago, or three years ago, or last week, you're going to find things that you would do better and differently now.

- Yeah, that's true.

And also, my past self inspires me.

And sometimes I want to draw like I drew when I was eight years old.

Not because it was prettier, because I had a lot of freedom when I was eight years old.

I didn't have the self criticism and I just draw my ideas from my imagination.

It was amazing.

- It's funny, sometimes we have to forget what we know to get back to that freedom that we had as a younger creator.

I'll look back at stuff I did when I was a teenager and a lot of it can be bad, but then you look at something and you say, that is, that's a great idea.

I don't think that same way now.

I wish I could have thought of that solution for this page now.

It's fascinating that we can still be inspired by stuff that we've evolved past.

- Yes, it's amazing.

It's like a time machine.

- If the viewers at home wanted to find out more about your comics, where can they find you on the web?

- I have a website.

Danalonet.com.

No, no, Danalonet.net.

- Okay, on this website, I've had the chance to look it over.

We see some of your comic work.

So what is the goal?

I mean, you're putting comics on your website.

Is there a plan for you to do a print edition of this or are you thinking maybe it's going to always be some sort of sequential web book?

- Here is the print edition, I have one.

- Ah!

- Yeah.

And I have also a digital edition.

But this is the main edition here in Israel.

And my goal is to translate it to English and to publish the next part of these comics.

This will be a bigger book than this.

- And this is something that if I were in Israel I would go into a book store and find it or is this something that I would have to go into a specialty shop?

- There are six shops where you can find these comics.

[speaking Hebrew] The Dying Lake.

This is the name of the store, I love it.

And most stores, Comickaze.

Comics and Vegetables.

That's the name of the store.

Ha, ha!

And most stores.

The Israel Museum for Comics and Caricature.

- Considering that there's not the structure that we have in the States, it's great to be in prestigious locations, like a museum.

But Dana, they are telling us that we are out of time.

I want to thank you so much for staying up late and talking with me today.

- Thank you very much for interviewing me.

- I'd like to thank everyone at home for watching "Comic Culture."

We will see you again soon.

[triumphant music] [triumphant music] [triumphant music] "Comic Culture" is a production of the Department of Mass Communication at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke.

[triumphant music] - [Announcer] Only at UNC Pembroke can you find what makes you special.

- [Student] We are mission focused, service minded, and grounded in our unique heritage.

- And most importantly, you will define who you are, what you love, and who you want to become.

- With the NC promise tuition plan, it's all more affordable than you might think.

- Discover your passions.

- It's all at your fingertips to explore and it starts right here at UNC Pembroke.