(upbeat music) - Hello, I'm Nido Qubein.

Welcome to Side by Side.

My guest today is an award-winning educator, author, and entrepreneur.

She's redefining early childhood education.

As founder of the London Day School, she's created a model that blends academic excellence with character development.

Today, we'll sit down with Danielle Lindner, a visionary in education and child development.

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- The Budd Group has been serving the Southeast for over 60 years.

Specializing in janitorial, landscape, and facility solutions, our trusted staff delivers exceptional customer satisfaction, comprehensive facility support with the Budd Group.

- Truist, we're here to help people, communities, and businesses thrive in North Carolina and beyond.

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(upbeat music) - Danielle, welcome to Side by Side.

I don't know where to start with you.

You've done so many things in your life.

All of them have been in the world of education, helping children to become better and become smarter, and now helping parents to understand how to relate to their children and grow for a better future.

But you, among other things, founded something called the London Day School in the state of New Jersey.

What is the London Day School?

- The London Day School is a preschool.

We start at 18 months, the littlest ones, and we go all the way through age five.

And it's amazing to see the transformation when they come in and they're crying, and they have all this separation anxiety, and then at five, they're running the shelves.

- What made you think of it?

Why did you do that?

- So I taught preschool, and then I taught kindergarten, and I loved education, but then when I had my first daughter, my husband was starting a company, and I decided I'm gonna leave that and be head of operations for his company.

And so for about 20, I don't know, 10, 15 years, almost 20 years, I was working in corporate with him, growing the company.

We had 150 employees, 44 different countries, and I was working all these hours, and my kids were in preschool, daycare.

And one day I went to pick up my daughter, and it was a snowy, cold day, and she was inside in a dark classroom watching a movie.

And I came home, and I said to my husband, "No, this is not what she should be doing."

I love movies, don't get me wrong, but there should have been a table in the room with snow in it, and they should have been learning about melting and freezing, and there's so many activities they could have been doing.

And so we had gone to, that night, to dinner at a jazz restaurant, and I don't know if my husband could hear me very well, but I said, "Would it be "okay if I took the part of the building that you're not using for your company and open up a preschool?"

And he said, "Sure."

I don't know if he thought I said something else.

(both laughing) But I said, "'Cause I really want a school "that focuses on STEM, that focuses on character education, "that focuses on foreign language, "and also social action, because kids can do more than people think they can."

And so that's where it really started, and then I just kinda ran with it.

- I saw research that said that most of the development of a child, behaviorally, perhaps mentally, intellectually, happens in the first six years.

- Yes.

- Do you agree with that?

- Absolutely, their brains are like sponges, and we also do a lot of divergent thinking within the classrooms, because once you get to middle school or even into elementary school, divergent thinking starts to shrink.

There starts to be that one right answer to things, and also public-- - But why is that?

Is it self-inflicted, or is it a system imposed?

- I think it's the system, because you start to get into that testing, where people are evaluated, teachers are evaluated based on the scores their students are getting from the state testing.

- I see.

- And I think it's very driven by that, so that's why I wanted kids in our preschool to get this great foundation.

We also do public speaking immediately, so as soon as the kids come to our school, they have-- - Not with a two-year-old.

- Yes, with a two-year-old.

- How do you do public speaking with a two-year-old?

- So we start with every student is a STAR student, and they make a poster with their favorite color, their favorite thing to do, their favorite place to go, and they stand up in front of their classmates in a little circle, and they talk about their poster.

- Wow.

- And every year, they do it, and every year, they're getting great feedback, because kids are nice, usually.

By the time they're in pre-K, and they're ready to go to kindergarten, public speaking is not a problem for any of our students.

- Isn't that interesting?

- Yeah.

- So one should not look at preschool as babysitting.

- Right.

- You're suggesting that that is a time that you should have creativity, innovation, and STEM, you said, and all of that, in that environment.

- It's the foundation for everything.

And actually, my daughter and my husband, over COVID, did a research study at the school to see the better than average effect, to see if little kids, at what age would they start to feel that they were better than someone, or less than someone?

And as it turns out, as young as three, kids start to feel better or worse than someone else.

- Really?

- And by four, they already have a feeling about themselves and their abilities, whether they are good at something, or bad at something, or nicer than someone, or not as nice.

So that's very powerful, if you think that, wow, if I don't really give them the foundation of feeling good about themselves, and I have this phrase called trickle-down education, where what you're doing, what a parent is showing their children, they're gonna emulate, and so now is the time, when they're young and their brains are forming, and they're sponges, and they're sucking it all in.

So parents will often say to me, "My child's been very rude lately, what can I do about this?"

And I'll say, "Well, when you go to a restaurant and your steak comes out rare, and you wanted it well done, how do you act as a server?"

And one dad said, "Well, obviously, I get very angry about that, because I'm paying a lot for the steak."

And I said, "Well, that's why your child's rude, because they are seeing how you're reacting."

- You're modeling, you're modeling.

- They're modeling, yeah.

- Is that, are there studies that suggest that you said they know they're better than others?

Is that where self-esteem is born?

- Yeah, I believe it is, yeah.

At that young age, that's when the foundation happens, before kindergarten.

Kids start to feel like I'm not good enough, or I'm better than.

And so I think it's really important that parents don't look at preschool as just like you're saying, the babysitting years, because they're really formidable years.

- What are the question, Michelle, I mean, Danielle, tell me this, if I'm looking for preschool for my child, what should I look for?

What are the questions I should ask?

What are the observations I should make that would tell me this is the right place for my child, or this isn't?

- Well, I think there are a couple of things.

There's always the safety issues, making sure that they're regulated by the state, and that they are following the state regulations properly.

- So these are the technical mechanicals.

- The technical things.

Aside from that, I always say walk into a school, and if the teachers in the little, in the rooms with the youngest kids are not sitting on the floor with them, walk out.

- If the teacher's not sitting with them.

- Yes, the teachers should be on the floor, eye to eye with the students.

Because there are a lot of students that might have auditory processing issues, or they're just distracted.

They're little kids.

Everything is a golden, shiny something.

So if the teacher is not making eye to eye contact with the student, they're losing a lot.

And they're also not getting that warmth and safety feeling.

- But Danielle, the teacher can't be sitting on the floor with these students for eight hours a day.

- No, of course not.

But they should be moving around and-- - You mean that figuratively.

- Enough times.

- Enough time to be involved with them.

And as the students get older, we'll have a circle time.

So the teachers will be down for 15, 20 minutes with them, and then they move and they go to different centers.

And so the teacher is walking around and helping some students, and other students are doing self-led things.

So I would look for that too.

Look for a program that has some play, 'cause that's really important for emotional intelligence, and structured learning.

So it's good to have a balance.

And also, it's very important to check out what is their behavior management system at the school.

So do they believe in positive behavior management?

- Which means what?

- Rewarding kids for doing the right thing rather than just focusing on the wrong behavior.

So I've always found-- - So sitting in the thinking chair is not a good thing?

- No.

- It's not a good thing?

- I'm very, this might be very, you know, woo, but.

- Yeah.

- I'm very against it, and here's why.

We've noticed that kids that have behavioral issues, the more the teacher puts them in the thinking chair, or sits with them to say, you did this wrong, you did this wrong, the more the behavior amplifies.

Because kids will do anything to get either positive attention or negative attention.

- I see.

- They don't care which.

So I have this, I tell teachers they need to catch kids being good.

So if a child does something that they shouldn't be doing, quickly, 'Johnny, I don't like that behavior, please don't do that again,' and move on.

No more attention.

You're not gonna sit with the teacher on the playground.

- I see.

- You're not gonna sit with me.

We're not gonna sit for 10 minutes and talk about it.

It's just, please don't do that and move on.

And then, when you see Johnny for even three seconds sitting nicely in circle, playing nicely on the playground, immediately-- - Say something nice.

- Say something nice.

'Wow, Johnny, I love that.'

- That was the essence of a book called The One Minute Manager.

- Yeah.

- Which Ken Blanchard wrote years ago when he said about the one minute, forgot what he called it, one minute affirmation and the one minute reprimand or something like that, where he basically said that the best, if you want behavioral modification, you gotta deal with it on the spot, instantly and immediately, whether it's good or bad, and then just move on.

- Right.

And we have found kids that have been thrown out of three or four preschools because of behavior have become the leaders in our school.

- Really?

- Just by switching the narrative.

- Well, what about ADD and ADHD and all these things?

What about learning differences?

How do we know in preschool if someone is dyslexic or they have some other issues, opportunities for learning?

- Yeah, I mean, it's very difficult.

I can look at a child now in many cases and I can quickly get an idea of what might be going on, only because I've been around so many kids.

And so what I like to do is just recommend to the parent that they have them evaluated by a professional in that field.

And then come back to us and say, these are the things that they might be struggling with.

And I feel that it's our job as teachers to change our teaching style for them, not the child shouldn't have to change how they learn for us.

- I see.

- And there are so many techniques and strategies that we can use.

And one of them is a very simple, easy one.

Don't give your child coloring in their lunchbox.

- Don't give your child coloring.

- Food coloring in their lunchbox.

If they have ADHD, we find that if you give a child something with food coloring in it, right?

- You mean like chemicals?

- Right.

- Yeah, yeah, I see.

- It sets them off for the rest of the day.

- You're not against having a green vegetable and a red carrot.

- No, we like that.

- Yeah, yeah, okay.

You're talking about influencing the food somehow or?

- Yeah.

- I see.

- So we give them strategies.

The other thing that we do with kids in our school that might have ADHD is we will allow them to say, you know what?

I feel like I can't sit in circle for right now.

So I'm gonna go in little, we have a quiet corner.

It's not a punishment corner.

It's a quiet corner with fidget toys and things they can play with.

And they can remove themselves themselves and say, I need a few minutes out of the circle.

- And what does that do?

Is deflects attention from what?

From being highly energetic or?

- It kind of gives them stewardship over their own bodies and it lets them recognize that they're feeling a little overwhelmed and a little over-simulated.

And they can just go and they can fidget and they can play.

And then when they feel like they can come back and sit quietly, they can do that themselves.

So they're not being punished and they're learning.

- I see.

- Skills that they can use even when they're in a boardroom.

Like, oh, you know what?

I think I need to take a minute and I'm gonna walk out for a second.

- You and I are both parents.

In my case, I'm a grandparent too.

And I remember moments when I didn't have the patience for that.

My kid does something, I've lost it a few times with anger or with punishment.

And now we're finding out all that doesn't work.

All that is not really, there's no really positive behavior that leads to more meaningful, impactful outcomes.

- You wrote a lot of children's books too.

- Yes.

- 15, 16 children's books.

- Yeah.

- And you have been, some of these books have been integrated in the Children's Miracle Network.

Is there a theme for your books?

- It is.

- And why the Children's Miracle Network like your books?

- They're all based on character education topics.

- Okay.

- And topics that through the years I would see kids struggling with.

And I didn't see books that necessarily dealt with them.

They're actually part of our curriculum as well.

- Give us an example of a character education book.

- So one of the books is about a little turtle who starts preschool and he's very upset because he has separation anxiety.

And he feels that his mom is leaving and going to have some sort of party somewhere and he's stuck in this school.

And so it talks about how everyone has a job and your job is to go to school and play with your friends and learn.

And your mom's job is to go to work.

And at the end of the day, we're gonna come back together and we're gonna talk to each other about what we did in our day.

- I see.

- And it gives the child, you know, a different perspective and it gives the parents a way to communicate with their kids about how school's a great thing and how, you know, rather than just saying, you'll be okay, you'll be okay, because that doesn't really acknowledge their feelings, but by explaining it.

So all the books sort of explain a character ed issue or an issue they might have.

One of the books, there's a bat who gets glasses because she's blind as a bat.

And you know, kids come to preschool and all of a sudden they need glasses and it's the end of the world and they're embarrassed and they feel self-conscious about themselves.

And so this book talks about how it's a wonderful thing and her friends think it's amazing.

She has these wonderful pink glasses and, you know, embrace differences, those types of things.

- How does a children's book author come up with an idea?

Well, to me, when I read children's books, it looks so simple.

And yet I'm told it's a very difficult thing to do.

Where do you get the idea from?

What is the process you go through to write a good children's book?

- Well, all my ideas come from what I would see when I'm in the classroom and walking around the school and from my own children.

So I have a daughter who worries a lot.

She's just a big worrier.

She's a planner and a worrier.

So I wrote a book called "Kobe the Blue Kangaroo" who worries all day.

And every book rhymes because kids love rhyming and they're very colorful.

And it talks about how he worries about losing his teeth.

He worries about losing a game.

He worries about it raining.

He worries about forgetting the words to a book or a song.

And then he goes for a walk with his mom, another kangaroo.

And he says, "I have all these worries.

I have all these worries."

And she says, "Basically, you can worry all day, but it's not going to change the outcome.

It's just gonna give you a stomach ache."

And so she says, "When you start to worry, change what you're thinking about.

Think about what you're gonna do with your grandma and papa on vacation.

Think about when you do win the game.

Think about what you're going to do with your friends."

And then at the end, it says, "It's not that he stopped worrying about everything because some worrying is normal, but he learned how to turn his frown upside down, as they might say, and move on a little bit."

So things like that.

I'll get them from either my students or my own children or myself.

- So, your daughter is how old?

- She's 20.

- She's 20.

So are you suggesting that in this particular instance, that she's a warrior, that that is the byproduct of something she picked up as a child?

- Yeah, I think so.

I think, well, I think a lot of it is how the schools they went to when they were younger and the experiences they had.

So if you're a child who goes to a preschool that's not very nurturing, that punishes, that, and then you go to a school and there may be bullying you, I think all of those things can, you know, compound to make you who you are.

- My understanding, when I talk to young mothers, is that it's difficult to find a preschool.

- It is.

- And sometimes you have to get on a waiting list and wait and so how does a set of parents pick a right preschool if in fact it's difficult to find a preschool?

- I think the best thing you can do is just do your homework, ask a lot of other parents where they go, what they like, and visit before you even need it.

Go beforehand and, you know, it's a big joke, oh, I'm pregnant and I'm gonna look for the preschool.

- Yes, yes.

- But that's when you should be looking.

- It's a wise thing to do.

- That's, just like college, I mean, we took our kids as they were as freshmen to look at schools and people said, that's too early.

- Freshmen in high school.

- Yeah, freshmen in high school, and like, no, it's not.

- So Danielle, it's fascinating.

This discussion is both instructional and stimulating for anyone, really, anyone who cares about humanity because our frame of reference from childhood influences, affects, and almost is predictive of what we do as adults.

But your major was in political science.

- Yes, it was.

- It wasn't in psychology.

It wasn't in childhood development.

You're a political scientist.

- Yes.

- Explain to me how does a political scientist become so intensely interested in, really, child development?

- You know, it's funny because I always tell students, you know, older students, I say, sometimes it's never what you think you're gonna be in college that you end up becoming.

And so I had all intentions to go to law school.

And then I realized, at the time, I had no mentors to tell me that you don't have to be a litigator to be in law school.

And I got accepted to a law school and chickened out because I'm like, I don't like fighting with people.

I'm not a fighter.

I don't wanna go in front of a judge and be yelling.

I didn't know I could have been an entertainment attorney in Hollywood.

That would have been lovely.

I would have loved that.

So I decided, all right, what do I really like?

And I realized I really liked kids and working with kids.

So I went back for my master's in early childhood education and I never looked back.

And I loved every single day of it.

And then I knew that was my thing.

- And then you were selected among other things as the top 25 leading women entrepreneurs and an author of children's books.

They've sold a lot of copies and have a children's miracle network interested in your work and all of that.

It's amazing how life's journey can be, isn't it?

And if you follow your heart and try to do something meaningful and impactful, it becomes really good.

This is a big question I wanna ask you.

It's perhaps an unfair question.

When you look at education today, educational system today in America, I recognize that some systems are better than others based on counties and cities and so on.

But generally speaking, are you looking at it with favor or are you looking at it with anxiety?

- Fortunately, both of my children are now beyond the public school system, which is great.

But I look at it, it's sort of upsetting to me in a way.

I think that we're going in the wrong direction.

I think we're doing a lot more of the drill 'em 'til you kill 'em type things where kids are being tested so much and too much is focusing on the testing and not the divergent thinking and not the creativity.

I think kids are forced to get up way too early, especially high school kids, and start school.

And I think the school day is much too long.

There's not enough time for sports and time for family and time for relationship building.

And also I think there's too much homework.

And I think homework has become parents doing the homework.

It's four hours of me and you and every other parent sitting at the dining room table trying to learn whatever the new math is this year.

It's not what it was intended to be.

And I think that the people in charge of education really need to take a good holistic look at it and revamp what we want education to be.

I mean, I think kids need to leave high school, if they can, having some life skills and knowing more than just two plus two is four and those types of things.

I think they need to learn how to get along in the world, how to debate with people, how to listen.

And that's clearly not happening.

- And studies show that even students coming out of colleges today, which is an extension of junior high and senior high and so on, are not very coachable.

They don't have a high degree of EQ, emotional intelligence.

Therefore, they don't interact, relate, and become as engaged as they should be.

You make a lot of sense to me and you speak about really important topics that all of us should be concerned about, whether we have little children or not, because we're concerned about society and workforce and the future of America.

And I thank you for your work.

Thank you very much for being with me today.

- Thank you so much for having me.

(upbeat music) ♪ - Funding for "Side by Side with Nido Qubein" is made possible by... - Coca-Cola Consolidated makes and serves over 300 of the world's best brands and flavors locally from 13 facilities and 4,500 hardworking teammates.

We are Coca-Cola Consolidated, your local bottler.

- The Budd Group has been serving the Southeast for over 60 years.

Specializing in janitorial, landscape, and facility solutions, our trusted staff delivers exceptional customer satisfaction, comprehensive facility support with the Budd Group.

- Truist, we're here to help people, communities, and businesses thrive in North Carolina and beyond.

The commitment of our teammates makes the difference every day.

Truist.

Leaders in banking.

Unwavering in care.