♪ Domestic violence awareness, Montrezl launch nationwide in October of 1987.

>> As a way to connect and unite people around eradicating intimate partner violence over the last 35 years.

Progress has been made to support victims and survivors and hold abusers accountable.

And since that time, the public policy needle has moved to do both.

More work remains will talk about it with the head of Greenhouse 17 darling Thomas.

That's now on connections.

♪ ♪ Thank you for joining us for connections today.

I'm Renee Shaw.

This is a statistic that you may find startling.

45% of Kentucky women and 35% of Kentucky men.

>> Experienced physical violence or rape by an intimate partner grand.

How 17 is an advocacy agency committed to ending intimate partner, abuse and families and the community.

Their services include a 24 hour hotline.

42 bed, Emergency shelter, safe exchange of visitation, supportive housing, legal advocacy and so much more.

And here today to talk with us about the role that communities, individuals and policymakers comply and ending domestic violence is Darlene Thomas executive director of Greenhouse 17.

Good to see you, friend.

>> It's so good to be as good to see you.

It's been a while since you've got a chance to sit down face to face >> Greenhouse 17.

So this has been a name change and this is a few years old.

But for people who think that seems like a different name to describe basically a domestic violence shelter.

Tell us the significance of it.

>> How were you know, we're on this 40 acre farm.

which is gorgeous.

By the way, it is unreasonable.

We have these industries taking place and we really wanted to capture the positive energy of survivors and we want in our name to reflect the possibilities and a greenhouse is a place where you grow and nurture things in a protected and we believe are helping families kind of grow and learn to nurture themselves while being protected by our organization.

So they they're learning to changing grow and find new opportunities for themselves in a protected environment.

And the 17 is for the 17 central Kentucky counties that we serve.

Yeah.

So I just wonder just like the pandemic turned everything upside down and exacerbated the bad and kind of diminish the good.

>> Did domestic violence that you see a spike and that during the pandemic and are we still experiencing that now?

>> You know, I think it's almost worse now.

The beginning of the pandemic, things got eerily quiet for some bites.

Been doing this work a really long time.

It got very quiet and I couldn't understand.

Chris never lived through a pandemic before.

So I didn't know what to expect.

We were trying to figure it out.

But as time when it what we're beginning to see, it was more stuff like the balance, more severe people were calling with horrendous stories of being held prisoner having all there, technology, Stockton, didn't feel like they were trapped and they'd ever felt trapped before.

And I do believe it was because of where we were all told to kind of be safe at home for domestic violence victims.

That's the least safe place for the night and their children is in the home.

And now we're kind of forced schools were shut down.

There was nowhere to go.

We couldn't work necessarily so much work was lost during that time and it gave, I think of those that abuse more power.

I'm kind of sanctioned by pandemic.

Yeah.

and what you saw, what we see now, what I believe are saying now is as the world has opened back up, those and abuse are losing their power because now there's opportunity for employment.

Children are back in school.

Choices and options are happening again.

Where survivors can decide.

Maybe it's time for me to try to leave or get out or seek choices and options, which puts them at greater risk.

And, you know, abusers don't like to lose power, And there and they've had more than they ever had.

>> Yeah, it's interesting because it we've talked about this before about the the most dangerous time for someone to try to exit that relationship is when leaving.

>> Or right after you've left or right before those like finalization of the relationship ending.

So it depends on the abuser, but leaving in right after you've left is increase the risk for some buyers, which is why it's so important for us as a community in a society not to send this message that you're that new job is to leave your your your son.

You know, you just got to get out of there with yourself and the kids.

It really needs safety and safety planning.

And we do not need to minimize the risk in the leaving we need to understand there's greater risk in leaving than staying.

You might get hurt.

There's still violence that's going to happen when you stay.

But it really has a tendency to escalate or the threat and the fear that escalation is very real.

When you leave.

So we needed.

No, that is a community.

Yeah.

It just simply saying.

Why not an easy answer?

Yeah, that easy.

I would have a job.

Well, that's right.

And I really I know this has got to be the most frustrating thing you probably hear from is why don't they just leave?

>> you know that not having maybe that financial independence or fear that their children or pets may be harmed.

You know, I mean, there's a lot of considerations.

It's not just about that one person in that situated as lots of other things to consider in every family's a little uni, right, very similar in some ways that the >> the major trends, economic situation, absolutely.

Family pets, cool community church.

All those things that you're connected with bills mortgages, all those things that kind of can KET you It takes a while to navigate when it's going to look like to even be able to leave it.

And then you couple that with this fear these threats, if you ever leave me, I'll kill you.

If you ever need me, you'll pay around take the children.

You'll never see them again for all.

>> And you have to take that seriously.

They're not just empty threat.

If somebody is willing to hit you, why would they be willing to follow through with the other threats right?

You know, the General Assembly, Kentucky General Assembly has legislation related to op-ed abuse.

Right?

And I remember when Diane Fleet was on one of the very first times, I think you're on together.

She drew that correlation for me about how you know, if if pets are being harmed, if abuser is taking it out on a pet, then it's it's not a leap that they would harm human.

Right?

So that connection between pet danger of harm and harm to him.

And I didn't really think about that.

And so you all drew that together for us.

Well, we try to draw those lines and it took several years.

But we juror the land to the legislature last year.

>> Managed to get protective orders linked to course of control as it relates to pets.

So and abuse or were to harm a pet as a means to control or care as the family, that would be enough to qualify for protective order.

a judge can grant kind of custody of the pets so the families would be forced to leave the pet with the abuser or those kind of in order to protect them.

So we do have to draw those abusers don't really discriminate in that sense.

They use whatever.

Gains in more power and if to hurt the family.

Pet terrorizes the family than that kind of ups.

The ante and there has.

And so, you know, families are left with family responsible, not just what's happening to them, but around them.

And the pet.

>> It seems like where there's more messaging about how like certain signals you can give when you're in danger.

And we're on Instagram all those platforms, I'm not really all that adept at, but the but they're showing like these are signs that people can are giving you to show that they need help.

If they're in a situation, they can't say it.

you know, can you talk to us about like how we can silently see that somebody is not in a good situation, help them out.

>> So we need to know, too, that we talk about domestic.

Not most people are intimate partner, violence, power base balance.

We call it lots what's we have a tendency to think of that is hitting re aside.

I need to first say it's a lot of verbal, emotional mental abuse, an HR boosters, lots of ways to use control.

In course, people to do what you want them today.

So I don't want if you are still just think it's physical violence or sexual violence.

And also please all these other forms but there are things you can look for, you know, people who used to be good friends and used to be social with you that come out anymore.

It's too, you know, Aaron Bare store there, you know, use the family for excuse.

I've worked with so many survivors who say, well, why couldn't you know?

I always tell my parents that can come home from Christmas because he's too much to bring 2 kids along when really that had nothing to do with that.

I didn't have to deal with when I got home all the questions and accusations and the things the kids and I would have to go through.

So if you see your part, you know, a friend or a colleague or a family member begin to isolate themselves and, you know, not come Todd.

Not a great eye contact kind of southerly same.

Not happy the way they dressed by changing the kind of who that they are in order to get to adapt to the relationship.

Those are kind of red flags, right?

But something's going on.

And then would be a little worried that that mean that other persons, the worst human on the planet.

Yeah, you know, I'm not not trying to label it.

We need to pay attention of the people that we live and work with for sudden changes in behavior.

And the only common denominators that relationship.

>> So sad.

So for many bystanders, the in stages of say that's none of my business.

What's happening in their home is that of my business.

And that's the exact opposite of what we should be doing.

I mean, the whole green dot experience you know, trickle and kind of tells us is bystanders.

We do have an obligation to do something.

So what do you do?

>> Well, I believe first of all, intimate partner, bouts of Texas because as people we know and its people, we love.

And I think what makes it even more complicated.

It's sometimes the people we know and love are the people that caused the harm.

And it becomes hard cause.

It's like with that that situation.

But everybody else should be should be acting in another way.

So I do think we have to take a hard look around.

be willing to kind of stand up and be a voice for what's right and what's wrong.

That mean, you have to cut people out of your lives.

But it does mean we have to make clear conscious decisions about what's appropriate and how we treat each As part of that answer.

And then I forgot what?

Yeah.

>> Well, that's okay.

Not as will get What you mentioned P O's deo's emergency protective orders.

Domestic violence orders.

Are those effective in the long term?

Yes.

Time to tell you how they are.

Okay.

Because lots of people go.

It's a piece of paper.

You hear that?

I had to pivot.

Yeah.

Just a piece of paper, a piece of paper is not going to say there are strict and that piece papers probably not the sole thing.

But here's what we do know.

I mean, university, Kentucky researched the effectiveness of protective orders in our in our state.

What they found is about 36, I believe 38% a time they were not violated.

So went to protect birds are in that much of the time.

35% have.

Let's say they were not violated by by the partner.

That 65% left.

That means 65% left.

But here's why.

Stay there still effective and when the violations could be a whole host about not just physical violence right.

But here's weather effect.

Because without the protective order, it would have been valley 100% at all.

Right.

Like none of that would stop.

So there is something about understanding that a protective order could be a part of somebody's safety plan and they can work better for certain types of abusers versus others, necessarily.

It may not stop all forms of abuse are all temps to control.

But we do know the victims feel safer.

Having a protective order.

Our police responses quick when they know the Protect Abortion Rights Act, the police know what they're up against when they going to scenes where there's domestic violence, which I think has a tendency to provide an extra layer safety for victims.

>> Does does that exercise alone survivor or victim at greater risk in getting that?

I mean, does I'm sure the abusers like, you know, what's going on here?

We can work this out.

I don't need this piece of paper.

Does that also put that individual at higher risk at that time?

It can.

Which is why what we have to do with all survivors is think about safety and safety planning it's not that somebody getting the protective order is causal.

The somebody's doing more harm.

But it's not for everybody.

Not all survivors are, you know, those experiencing APD one a protective order or feel like they need to do that are ready to take that step.

But a Kane be in a critical part of the safety plan, but it shouldn't be the sole thing like the answer should be the lead.

The answer should also be go get a protective order, right?

Really need to wrap survivors.

Survivors need to think about their safety, where to go, where their paperwork is, where extra clothes are, where you're going to had keys to have a burner phone.

There are so many things as people are navigating their relationship and what they want to do, that we need to help them think about.

So if they make the decision to leave, whether they do protective order or not, they at least know the obstacles what they need, but they're up against in the steps and choices they have.

>> Because that's one of the power.

It is.

Well, on your Web site, you know, you kind of lay out this whole safety plan, which is like, you know, that's really detailed.

And you have to be, you know, in the mindset, in the universe response to my mind, I like to say, but if you're not there.

You know, I mean, you've got to get to that point.

So how can you help somebody get to that point where?

They need to maybe make some different Can you can you?

Can you help them get their?

Yeah.

Can you help and you absolutely.

>> As you empower them with knowledge, new plant, seeds of possibilities and hope, right?

Community members, family members say you deserve better than this, their choices and options will step in.

And what are your greatest fears?

What's keeping you from making that move for yourself and your children?

So many things to think about that survivors kind of get to this place of they're just living.

They are just surviving.

You know, they're not.

The choices are not always there's there's just mitigating in navigating day in and day out.

So you forget how the plan or even think about future because you've got to deal with today.

This moment are getting 30 mar and so we as a community send the message to survivors that they have value in worth and that their choices and options.

That's empowering right.

Just to hear that survivors lives are changed when men look at them and say no man has a right to hit you.

You don't deserve that.

It is transformative for so many female survivors.

You know, I mean, domestic violence doesn't discriminate.

Perhaps the men and women and fight us.

Not specifically a gender issue.

It is a gender issue but it's not specifically gender.

She.

>> Right.

And we know that there are all kinds of segments of our population are dealing with it that AL G B T Q, I'm just wanting if there's unique challenges to members of that community who are dealing with same sex, our gender identity differences are fluidity.

Does it look different as their different type of power?

It's all the same means to get to the and right.

It doesn't change just because orientation course of control was course of control in any type of relationship.

>> Per se.

I do think there's absolutely more barriers for the LGBTQ community.

And in the sense of, you know, a test.

You know that if there.

Living don't have housing protections per se.

You know, they could be evicted from their home.

Their family doesn't know of their their living situations with their choices regarding their sexual identity or there sexual choices in that sense, they could be outed to their family barriers of if my workplace KET about it because we know they don't have the same protections right.

As other.

And that he's might have >> firearms is that I mean, yeah, that you say that one word and it makes you had to make your head spin, doesn't it does.

It does.

In the light about PV, intimate partner bounce it to us.

>> So how do you how do you work with policymakers on?

Common sense bipartisan legislation to protect victims against violence, intimate partner or otherwise.

What's the what's the argument?

Well, I do believe that we right.

We'll be harm.

Others.

>> And with IPV when there's no harm.

I guess my common sense approaches is that the weapons should not be in the hands of certain individuals who have proven to be harmful.

And we know those people right.

We often there's times that there's no balance.

We didn't have any labor knowledge that where this was coming from.

But in an intimate partner violence, we know who the problem is.

The protective order state police calls their interactions to the other criminal behavior, whatever that might be.

So and we also know that about 80% of domestic violence victims who are murdered are murdered with a gun.

So there's a huge correlation of link and there's no correlation.

And in the billing to defend yourself, you know, at some point and they're like, well, all the victims think again to that that help either you like me.

It traumatized person that need a gun in their hand, either in order to try to protect themselves if they're not overly familiar with weapons in any way.

But again, common sense says, but we should remove weapons from those who we know to do harm.

All right.

>> Because how do you hold abusers accountable?

If if you if you don't take away their guns, if it takes a while for cases to be, you know, I'm not know for June.

Okay.

Yeah, you know, I mean.

How do you hold them accountable?

>> You know, I think we a society are struggling with that.

I don't know that we have a really good answer of how to do that.

You your team answers would be.

Well, your main answers to put them in jail when our jails are overcrowded and and full and that that fit for every domestic violence survivor and the debt fit for every, you know, perpetrator of violence either I don't know that we as a society have figured out how what accountability looks like for those that do this kind of harm.

But we're working on it, right?

So we do have better intervention programs that are trying to address that and I know our state coalition is always looking ahead to be enhanced that kind of intervention.

Our courts rely on Is that gonna change long-term behavior?

I don't know that answer.

Accountability to me looks a little different because I've worked with the victims for 33 years, although I did 2 batters work for that 3 along the way.

So I'm not I don't just have a single lens right in this work you know, to me, it seems that the batters that should be the ones that lose their rights to things.

I know why was that the victim and the children are living in a shelter.

By the batter still in the home or in the apartment and still going go and victimize somebody else and the arson and the next person in their life event.

>> But they've had to leave and they've got 2 trash bags to their name for their and their kids.

And they left everything behind.

>> Those children are probably still going to have access that that's their father.

And yeah, you know, batters same too.

Get by with their use of violence and the people that we KET expecting to change is has to be the victim.

We're always expecting the victim have to change or to do better protect themselves and their children.

And we're not really good yet at figuring out how we hold that better camp.

Although I joke sometimes maybe we can.

Maybe it's not a joke.

You know, maybe we should have the halfway houses should be for batters.

Right?

And you have to go there.

You have to word your ankle bracelet.

You go to work every day.

You pay child, support your kids, get to go to their live in their home and do way every night.

When you come home, you have treatment and you learn about how your behaviors impacting people and make new choices.

I don't know.

I'll have the answers, but I do think we have a little skewed about who we expect to change, right?

Yeah, we want to even get into because we've talked about this offline about of the rehabilitation.

>> Of abusers.

And if that's possible, right?

And so you know, the correction system is called that for a reason We'll we'll save that for another time.

We have try to do that in 4 minutes and 50 seconds I do is talk about you raise the point about the impact on children and there seems to be, you know, trauma informed care has become this lexicon that we're using in the education And I'm hearing it more and more with mental health that has really risen in Argonaut conversation, which is good.

And so I wonder what that looks like.

Trauma informed care when it comes to those who are survivors of domestic violence or intimate partner violence.

Is it the same kind of concept of healing and how does that impact children who have been exposed?

Maybe they don't see it directly or hear it directly.

But they just know that something's not right between mom and dad or mom and him ever.

Yeah, I do feel most children see it and hear it at maybe not always direct exposure.

Maybe not always seeing it.

>> But they but they definitely here at it.

I think they witness it more than being direct victims and for us trauma, informed care really is about meeting the person where they are and not placing upon them and really unrealistic expectations of how they get from point a to point B, it has to kind of be driven by then we should be treating them like children like they can't make their own choices are that the decisions have been too terrible.

Now they need our guidance to get some rest.

Actually, they've been quite resilient.

And so we need to build upon their strength.

It's really a string space perspective in same is true for children whether said Alter the children there, all the victims in that And so charming form care also takes in the sense of what it does to your brain and your brain You know, most of us the answer is, again, the get out of their common sense.

But if you not been exposed to pro long fear pro long.

That's what we're talking about.

Day in and day out.

Tear the looks that players the knowing that something other she's can't rate to drop, navigating it.

Mitigating it trying you know, work your way through that kind of balance over prolonged period of time.

We do the impact that that has on the way you think so.

We kind of have to be re, you know, given permission and lots of love and lots of time and guidance not to tell people what to do, but to support the net journey until they can start to have their brain kind of re.

Why are so fun?

A little bit of what it means to live beyond the violence.

And that takes time for the kiddos.

And for the non offending.

I don't know.

We've done a lot of had a lot of conversation about adverse childhood experiences aces and all of that.

>> So in the 2 minutes we have remaining missed our land.

I want to talk about the optimism and the hope that you give because I've been to the farm and we've talked for many years that you're not just a safety plan.

You're not just to break open the glass in the case of emergency.

I mean, you are doing housing counseling, helping them connect to even if they want to be an entrepreneur, their education.

I mean, you're trying you're dealing with the whole person, not just the incident and the reason why they come to you.

That's why that's exactly it.

>> Well, because summer we have to quit people.

You know, we have to not look at victims.

Ation victims already know they've been victimized.

We need to help them see their beauty and their and their possibilities and their capabilities.

And the only way to do that is for time and patience and and providing so many ways for them to get their hands into new opportunities, whether it's through our to use their sewing or it's out on our farmers, growing flowers or is making products art.

>> I do believe that for victims to begin that healing journey and the children, they have to know that they belong to something bigger than themselves.

You know, their world has been this and we're trying to open it up to all these other possibilities for them just to dabble and explore it and they take great pride.

When I started this work to be in a domestic violence shelter with bin.

We do so much more than shelter, but to be in one was like 10.

But you won't even put it on the job.

Just, you know, I I live in a domestic violence shelter.

We try to create an environment where you're proud to be there.

You took great strength, encourage beyond words to find your way to this building.

And we're going to celebrate me.

You're going to celebrate that.

And there's nothing to be ashamed of.

The shame belong somewhere else.

And we're lifting that were not had your way.

We're going to protect you.

We're not going to hide you weigh and pushing away.

So the rest of the world that see you.

Instead we invite our community out and we invite them into the community.

So the whole community can see that survivors are incredible.

They are.

They're the people we love.

Yeah.

>> Couldn't be final words to end on Darling.

Thank you.

This is why I love this woman.

You just heard it.

You know, the reason why look them up on their Web house on their website Greenhouse 17 and you get all that great information.

The darling to shared.

And we hope that you have been empowered by this conversation to KET an eye on those.

You love to We'll see you again soon on Kentucky additions 6.30, Eastern 5.30, central on KET can see what's happening across the state each week night.

All see you on connections again next Sunday.

And until I see you again, take really good care.

So long.

♪ ♪ ♪