- Hello, I'm David Crabtree, here on the campus of Fayetteville State University.

In a moment we'll meet Darrell Allison, the 12th chancellor in the second-oldest public institution in the University of North Carolina system.

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[light music ends] [light music] [light music continues] - Thanks for joining us, I'm David Crabtree, here on the campus of Fayetteville State University with the 12th chancellor of this wonderful institution, Darrell Allison.

Chancellor, thanks for having us here.

- David, we're so honored to have you at the second-oldest public university in all in North Carolina.

- It's amazing, oftentimes we have these conversations with chancellors.

We might be at their residence, we might be in their office, out on the campus; we are in a room specifically dedicated for the veteran population of this university.

Tell me why you chose this room and the significance of this room.

- Yeah, we're very proud.

1867, we are, and forever will be, designated Historical Black College University, and we're proud of that.

1867, you think about the history, think about, David, where we were in America two years post-Civil War, and our Seven Founders saw it within themselves to pool resources together to start what would ultimately be Fayetteville State University: very, very, very proud of that.

But we're just as proud to be, what I say, one of the most patriotic universities in the nation, not just geographic.

We are about eight miles away from the largest military installation in the nation, Fort Liberty.

But it doesn't just stop there.

So what we said, we're gonna double down.

Since we've been here in this administration, we said we're gonna be more than just a geographical location for what our men and women do for this nation.

We want to make sure that for our veterans, our reservists, active duty, spouse and dependent, if they want an education, we want them here.

And so I'm proud of the fact, David, that at Fayetteville State University, 32% of our 7,170 students are military-affiliated.

32%.

And that's the largest in the UNC system.

Right at 2,300 students are military-affiliated.

Because we said for those families, we want to make sure, on top of what we have for NC Promise, we want to make sure, for those families, they come to Fayetteville State University tuition-free.

So it's been nearly four years since I've been here.

And since that time we've seen an increase in that population, our military-affiliated student, about 25% here at Fayetteville State University.

So again, we're excited about who we are and from the foundation, but we are just as proud of that fact here, real material investment.

Our motto, res non verba, deeds not words.

And I like the fact that we've got a lot more deeds and less words as it comes to our military families here at Fayetteville State University.

- Another question about that relationship.

I've got to think, I mean, after all the years that I covered what was Fort Bragg and was in Fayetteville and listened to the military families talk about the desire for more education, to be able to advance this program has to have the attention of the military all the way up to the Pentagon.

- Yeah.

And we're excited.

I mean, you know, just excited about the fact that two commencements ago we had the Secretary of Defense give his first ever commencement here, his speech here at Fayetteville State University.

That was very historic.

His wife, I think she had a little bit to do with that, because she was a graduate of Fayetteville State University.

In fact, we found out former Secretary Austin, when he was a soldier at then Fort Bragg, he met Austin, soon to be Austin, while he was a military, while she was a student here.

And so we were excited a a about that.

Former Command 82nd Airborne Donahue, who's just been advanced to this four-star.

Now we have General Anderson.

I'm happy to report, David, that at the airing of this taping here, Fayetteville State University would've signed one of the most significant partnerships with Fort Liberty Airborne, the first of this kind in the UNC system.

Again, very intentional, a comprehensive Department of Defense US Airborne here.

And again, I think laying down the roots for real systemic change, making lives better for military-affiliated, and also making lives better for nonmilitary, that integration.

So it's a benefit to our military-affiliated students, but it's also a benefit to the nonmilitary students here.

It's a very unique experience.

You'll find here at Fayetteville State University, we're one of the most diverse universities ever.

When you broaden the sense of what diversity looks like, in addition to our 32% military-affiliated student, our traditional sense of students.

So we don't say kids here at Fayetteville State University, 'cause they're talking about high school to college.

That's only 51% of our 7,170 students.

47% of our students are 25 years and older: adult learners.

So we've got a very unique mix here that makes it very rewarding as the 12th chancellor of Fayetteville State University.

And you've gotta have a lot of innovation, a lot of creativity.

You've gotta have a right team here.

But it's just really exciting in the 21st century to have that.

And man, I'm honored to be the 12th chancellor of Fayetteville State University.

- What's the best thing about this university?

- That.

And I'll say, from a selfish perspective, David, it's deeply personal to me, 'cause I connect it back to the UNC system.

You're looking at an individual.

I'm all in, I'm in the second half of life, just crossed over 52 years ago.

When I look at where I was in Cabarrus County, Tier 1, mom, dad didn't go to college, but they understood the importance of a college.

And I was gonna go to college, whether I liked it or not.

Had to get a scholarship in order to do it.

Not only did I get an academic scholarship by way of North Carolina Central University, so proud of that, full ride, my brother and my sister did as well.

Not only did we get our undergraduate degree at North Carolina Central University, all of us got academic scholarships.

But we doubled down, we doubled down the UNC system.

My brother and I got our law degree at Chapel Hill.

My sister got her medical degree at ECU.

You are looking at a product times two of the UNC system.

So for Peter Hans to have the faith in me to say, "Darrell, I think you could do the job here at Fayetteville State University."

For the board of governors to have the faith in me to say, "Darrell, we think you could do the job here," let me tell you, I'm not gonna let them down.

But personally, to be in the second half of life, to think about where I was 30 years ago, I see myself in these students, whether it be traditional age or adult learners.

And we're gonna give it all we got.

And so every day is with purpose and intentionality, because of the uniqueness and the need to make sure that if we are doing everything we can in these four years for these students, man, the trajectory is high.

And I just know what it did for me and I know what it's gonna do for these students here.

And it's deeply personal and I'm excited.

- And you mentioned scholarships for you, your brother, your sister, the opportunity scholarships that are available now.

You know, we have a lot of newcomers in the state that may not understand when we talk about opportunity scholarships exactly what they are.

If you're talking with a stranger about that, how do you describe it to them?

- Yeah.

We say we pride ourselves.

And we are so, so grateful to the state of North Carolina, our board of governors who are driving every year to be the most affordable in the nation.

- And efficient.

- And efficient.

So to be an NC Promise institution, where any citizen in the state of North Carolina that want to get a higher ed education, $500 per semester here at Fayetteville State University.

And for out of state, $2,500.

So that's $5,000 for four years for undergrad, and about 20,000 for out of state.

And that's a bargain.

But we doubled down for our military affiliated students, that we say, hey, we're gonna take care of that cost.

Because for what they give, again, whether they're active duty or not, their spouse/dependent for what the family gives for their fathers and mothers, we're gonna double down on that, if you will.

We also have a partnership with 16 of our community colleges.

That's 58.

We have 16 of our community colleges.

And for four of our community colleges, 3.0 GPA, you get your associate degree, you come here to Fayetteville State tuition-free.

We want to make it most affordable because we want you to get it done in four years or less at Fayetteville State University.

- Okay, you just hit on something that I find so important when I'm talking with chancellors and talking with parents, state lawmakers, whomever it may be, when people talk about the value of higher education in a society that values work, which we all do, and being able to support ourselves and contributing to society, we went through this phase where people were saying: Well, I'm not so sure about four years of college and the cost of what it's going to be.

But even without the cost, I want to go out and start making money quickly.

And some of us were holding up a flag and just saying got that.

However, what a university experience offers or a community college experience offers is a lot of intangibles.

When you're talking with people in the community, how do you talk about those intangibles?

- Yeah, at a high level.

At a high level, David.

And I think it's important.

What I'll say is whether it's industry-led and community college-led, you'll learn a skill.

You can learn a skill.

You can learn a skill.

But what a four-year institution provides you, you can manage those also who have the skill.

So you can do the job.

But with a university, a four-year degree, it allows you to not only learn the skill but also how to manage those.

And that's where the extra resource, that's where the extra compensation comes in.

And so we're gonna meet you where you are and take you where you want to be, because it is a generational game-changer.

And I'm living proof of that.

My daughters are in a much better situation because of what my mother and my father, who, again, David, wasn't able to make it, but they saw and understood the importance.

They had a skill.

Their skill was working in the textile mill.

They said, "Darrell, you're better than that.

One day you're going to be overseeing individuals who have skills, and we want you to take it to that next level."

And so because of that, I'm now sitting in a situation generationally where my daughters are in a higher plateau and so on and so forth.

It is a generational game-changer, not just for that individual, but for families that follow after you.

That is the American way.

And that is why we're so proud, indebted to the state leaders in the UNC system.

That's what's happening here at Fayetteville State University and in Cumberland County.

- So you were in law school, Carolina, right?

- Yeah.

- Was your plan to be an attorney?

Did you want to litigate?

Did you want to go in and debate?

And how did you see the landscape at that time?

- You know, my brother did.

I'll tell you, David, you know, it's providential in a lot of ways.

And, David, you know, we go back, my bent was shifted to policy.

And I never thought, never in a million dreams, you would've knocked me off my chair with a feather, you told me one day I would be a chancellor, you know, at a institution.

But I knew the importance of education, worked in K-12, understood the value.

'Cause again, I'm a living proof that with good education, it is a game-changer in terms of upward economic mobility and things of that nature.

And as soon as we can provide that, as early as we can provide that for a young person, the better off they they can be.

But learn how to think strategically.

Learn how to reason.

Learn also how to get along.

- You learned how to listen.

- That's right.

Listen.

Understand that you're not always right.

Nothing is always 100%.

And how do we work in such a way, collaboratively, take a little bit of here, there, bring it together, and let's move forward.

And that's the great American way.

And I also think that those are skills that carry you.

- Yeah, I'm thinking about your demographics on this campus.

When you talk about this large percentage of military students, you have a lot of young people who grew up maybe not from a military family, but if they grew up in Cumberland County or anywhere around here, they definitely have been influenced by this.

And yet a university is a place that doesn't teach you what to think but how to think.

So you're embracing a lot of different ideas and ideals.

- [Darrell] That's right.

- I would think this campus at times can bubble up in some fairly fierce conversations.

- Yeah.

And we welcome that, within reason, within reason.

And God bless our police and security.

[both laughing] But that's healthy.

- Yeah.

- That's healthy.

That's part of the education.

I mean, listen, at the end of the day, it's four years.

We want them to get it done in four years or less.

- I didn't get it done in five years, four years, by the way.

I was on the five-year plan.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

- Okay.

It took a little longer.

- That's right.

That's right.

But these are hopefully skills that you're gonna learn for a lifetime.

And we gotta learn how to listen.

We got- - I'm sorry.

You were telling me before we began about your ability to listen, because, in all fairness and transparency, I've known Chancellor Allison for almost 25 years and interviewed you several times.

And you were never hesitant to take a stand about something in which you believed.

And so I said, "How did you develop that ability to navigate the waters?"

And you said it was Thanksgiving table with your family and your siblings, right?

- Yeah, I mean, again, my brother's an attorney, my oldest sister was a doctor.

My dad, my mom's brilliant.

So you had fierce debates at the Thanksgiving table.

We loved each other.

But great perspective, thoughtful.

And you learn it from the knee up.

- Where were you in the birth order?

- Knee baby, next to last, the middle child.

- Well, you're the mediator, right?

- Get out.

Right.

They say we got complex, but I'm the mediator.

But that's the thing.

And then when you look at the state of North Carolina, we're just kind of right there.

And so from K-12, high school, law school, you know, it's just the way.

And so here at Fayetteville State where, you know, almost half traditional age, half adult learners.

So you go in a classroom and you've got 25 or older in the class, and those that's less that.

You got about a third that's military-affiliated.

It makes for a pretty unique classroom makeup.

And if we take the time to not just talk but also listen, you learn not just from the instructor, but you'll learn from each other.

- One of the things I've learned working within the UNC system is the business of higher education.

Enrollment is so important.

And it's a challenge for a lot of schools these days.

You've had some significant advances in enrollment here.

In fact, three or four months ago, I saw you at a board of governors meeting, and I said, "Chancellor, congratulations on the numbers."

And before you had even acknowledged the success, you said you have to sustain it.

You have to sustain it, David.

That really spoke volumes to me.

So if you would, talk a little bit about the advances, about the successes and the challenges.

- Yeah, listen, I knew coming to here, 2021, Fayetteville State, we were challenged in some way.

We have a beautiful campus, but we had decades of resource needs, infrastructure.

We are one of the lowest in terms of fundraising, alumni, support.

David, again, so, so, so, so grateful to our state since I've been here, And our state legislature, our board, the governor's UNC system, with over $200 million of investment in terms of new buildings, et cetera.

Individuals that have been here 20 years said to me: "Chancellor, you don't understand.

We haven't seen a crane on our grounds in 20 years."

And now when you come on our campus here, you see multiple cranes here.

So we've been tremendously blessed and very fortunate to see some of that growth here and see some of those resources here.

And so we have to be an institution that just cannot see the single stream of did we hit our enrollment numbers, here's the revenue or not.

We have to really think about diversifying our revenue streams.

And so we're really excited about the fact that we have opportunity here with our entities, FSU Development Foundation, where we just secured a retail shop where we have a Chick-fil-A.

Last week we just built a Starbucks.

We're gonna get a cup of coffee here.

- Excellent.

- So that's for the community, also for our students.

But every dollar, every dollar that is spent comes back to this university here.

So for an institution like Fayetteville State University, it's much needed resources here.

So that when the state of North Carolina, when taxpayers are doing well and the coffers are robust, hey, things are well.

But when times are slim picking, you know, institutions need to be industrious and have their own source of resources, if you will.

And so these are some of the things you wrestle with as a chancellor as well.

And so you want to have a good leadership team.

You want to be planning, you want to be saving, just like I personally do.

You want to have emergency fund and things of that nature there.

So it is critically important.

It's not just about the ABCs and 123s in higher ed.

You want to be mindful of today and also planning for tomorrow.

The good, a sunny day, as well as the rainy day.

- When you're out walking on this beautiful campus, and it is a really, it's a gem.

It is a gem.

- Thank you.

- And you see students and talk with them.

What do they want to talk with you about?

Are they afraid to approach you?

- Nah.

No.

They know of open-door policy.

And so they know all, not all 7,100 come in.

But we are very, again, 30 years ago, I was them.

So my daddy told me, David: "Darrell, no matter where you go in life, never lose the common touch."

Again, I'll never forget where I come from.

I'm a textile kid from Kannapolis, North Carolina.

And I'm maybe chancellor today, nice suit, but it was not always that way.

And so that's ingrained in me.

And so it's important.

It's important.

And so it's remarkable, David, to see the growth, to see where the student was their freshman year and to see where they end up, not 10 years, 20 years, but in three to four years.

Listen, I almost get jealous.

I remember, David, my salary.

I started school in 1990, finished in 1994.

I remember my salary.

Department of Justice in DC, $23,800.

I had a student who came to me: "Chancellor, Chancellor.

I got a job at," I won't say the company, "Chancellor, and I'm making $88,000."

On one end I was like, "Yay!"

And on the other end I'll be like jealous [laughs].

Envy, you know, it to me.

But that's the kind of game-changer.

Because lemme tell you something, David, that young man came from a Tier 1 county, first generation.

And I'm saying to myself, this is where he's starting.

Where is he gonna be 20 years from now, 30 years from now?

That's the kind of stuff that's happening.

If that doesn't excite you, if that doesn't get you your blood moving, something wrong with you.

- I understand.

There's so much to learn from young people.

There's so much to learn from their mentors.

There's so much to learn in the world, and all of that as part of the educational process.

Chancellor Darrell Allison, it is so good to be with you, to be on this campus.

We appreciate the hospitality and wish you all the best in the future.

Call on us here at PBS North Carolina anytime.

- Thank you, thank you, thank you.

And let's go get that Starbucks coffee, my friend.

- All right, my friend.

Thanks.

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