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TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," GROWING CONCERN OVER THE WATER AND ENERGY USED BY DATA CENTERS.

ALSO TONIGHT, DETAILS ON A COURT RULING YOU ON THE STATE FUNDS ARIZONA SCHOOL FACILITIES.

>>> AND DETAILS WHAT WILL BE THE STATE'S FIRST HOLOCAUST EDUCATION CENTER.

THOSE STORIES AND MORE NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

A BIG TECH DATA CENTERS ARE A BOOMING BUSINESS IN THE STATE BUT GROWING CONCERN OVER HOW MUCH WATER AND ENERGY USE THE CENTERS REQUIRE AND HOW THAT USAGE COULD RESULT IN HIGHER UTILITY RATES.

TO LEARN MORE WE WELCOME JOANNA ALLHANDS WHO COVERS WATER ISSUES FOR "THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC."

GOOD TO SEE YOU, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

TED: WHAT IS DATA CENTER.

>> IT'S A GIANT BOX.

A PLACE WHERE A LOT OF SERVERS, COMPUTERS ARE HELD THAT ARE DOING ALL OF THE PROCESSING POWER FOR EVERYTHING IN THE CLOUD.

ANYTHING WE PUT UP, ALL OF OUR PICTURES OF CATS, ALL OF OUR ZOOM MEETINGS THAT WE HAVE, AND, OF COURSE, ALL OF THE A.I.

AND STUFF HAS TO BE POWERED BY GIANT COMPUTERS AND A LOT OF CLUSTERED IN DATA CENTERS.

TED: BECAUSE OF A.I., THIS IS A BOOMING BUSINESS NOT JUST IN ARIZONA, BUT AROUND THE COUNTRY.

>> PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS THERE A BUST?

SOMETHING WE'VE OVERTHOUGHT AND WE'RE PLANNING TOO MUCH?

OR IS THIS REALLY THE THING.

IS THIS THE INFRASTRUCTURE WE ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE FOR THE NEXT WAVE OF THE FUTURE.

TED: 150 CENTERS ARE EITHER OPERATING OR PLANNED JUST IN ARIZONA?

>> IT'S A LOT.

TED: YES, IT IS.

ARE THEY SHOPPING MALL SIZED?

A LOW SIZE?

HOW BIG?

>> IT DEPENDS.

THERE WAS A PROJECT IN TUCSON CALLED PROJECT BLUE, WHICH WAS PROPOSED, BUT REALLY GOT REJECTED.

NOW THE CERTAINTY OF THAT IS WE DON'T QUITE KNOW YET, BUT THAT WAS ACTUALLY GOING TO BE BIGGER THAN SOME OF THE ONES THAT HAVE MATERIALIZED HERE IN THE PHOENIX METRO AREA, BUT EVEN STILL, THEY'RE LARGE GIANT WAREHOUSE-TYPE BUILDINGS.

TED: AND AS FAR AS ARIZONA SPROUTING THESE THINGS, AT AN AMAZING CLIP HERE, WHY?

WHAT'S GOING ON HERE, WHY ARIZONA?

>> PART OF IT IS, WE LIVE IN THE DESERT, NOT A LOT OF HURRICANES THAT COME THROUGH AND THAT SORT OF THING.

THERE ARE CLIENTS HERE.

WE'VE GOT THINGS LIKE TSMC THAT ARE BUILDING, SO THERE IS A NEED FOR THAT KIND OF INFRASTRUCTURE, BUT ALSO REALLY IT'S JUST -- WE'VE GOT A LOT OF LAND AND A LOT OF POWER AND, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, WATER THAT CAN GO FOR THEM.

>> I WOULD IMAGINE EXISTING FIBER, LIKE FIBER INFRASTRUCTURE, ALL THIS BUSINESS, THAT HAS TO PLAY A PART, DOESN'T IT?

>> YEAH.

YEAH.

YOU CAN'T NOT HAVE THAT TO BE ABLE TO CONNECT BECAUSE IT'S GOT TO GO TO THE CLOUD, RIGHT?

IT'S PART OF THIS DIGITAL INFRASTRUCTURE THAT HAS TO EXIST.

>> THE BOTTOM LINE IS IT'S CHEAPER TO RUN HERE?

>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.

TED: YOU DON'T THINK SO?

>> OBVIOUSLY, WE FILL A NEED, RIGHT?

WE ARE NOT THE TOP STATE IN TERMS OF DATA CENTERS.

ACTUALLY PLACES LIKE VIRGINIA HAVE A GAGGILION DATA CENTERS, IT'S NOT JUST ARIZONA ATTRACTING THESE, BUT WE'RE IN THE HIGHER ECHELON OF THESE THINGS.

TED: WHAT ARE THE ENERGY DEMAND OF THESE THINGS?

>> IT'S A LOT BECAUSE IT'S A BIG INFRASTRUCTURE THAT NEEDS -- IT GENERATES A LOT OF HEAT, FIRST OF ALL.

YOU GOT TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET RID OF THAT, YOU DON'T WANT THE COMPUTERS TO OVERLOAD AND SHUT DOWN AND THAT SORT OF THING.

SO ACTUALLY, IT'S A LOT OF ENERGY BUT NATIONWIDE, IT'S ABOUT 4% OF THE ELECTRICITY THAT WE USE ON DATA CENTERS GOES TO THEM.

SO I MEAN, IT'S NOT ALL OF IT THAT GOES THEM, BUT DEFINITELY A GOOD AMOUNT.

TED: RIGHT.

I SAW APS AND SRP ARE SAYING ENERGY DEMAND NEARLY TRIPLES IF EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE 150 THAT WERE PLANNED AND PROPOSED GO ONLINE.

THAT'S A LOT OF DEMAND.

>> IT COULD BE, YEAH, AND THAT REALLY SPEAKS TO THE NEED FOR PLANNING AND INFRASTRUCTURE AND MAKING SURE THAT THESE PLACES ARE PAYING THEIR RENT.

TED: AND TALKING ABOUT ENERGY, TALK ABOUT WATER.

THAT'S UP YOUR ALLEY.

>> THAT'S UP MY ALLEY.

TED: HOW MUCH WATER TO COOL THEM DOWN?

>> IT'S HARD TO KNOW PER EACH FACILITY BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY REPORTING THIS, BUT AT LEAST THE ESTIMATES ARE THAT THIS YEAR, ABOUT 3,000 ACRE FEET GOES TO DATA CENTERS, THAT'S ABOUT ENOUGH WATER FOR 10,000 HOMES.

IT'S NOT INSIGNIFICANT, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT IT ON A PERCENTAGE BASIS, IT'S LESS THAN 1% OF THE WATER THAT EVERYONE USES.

IT'S ACTUALLY IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS, NOT A TON OF WATER, BUT IT'S NOT INSIGNIFICANT EITHER.

TED: YEAH, AND THIS IS ARIZONA, SO ALL WATER IS SIGNIFICANT IN ARIZONA.

YOU MENTIONED PROJECT BLUE IN TUCSON.

CITY COUNCIL SAYS GET IT OUT OF HERE.

WHY?

WHAT'S THAT ABOUT?

>> PEOPLE WERE MOSTLY CONCERNED -- THERE WERE A LOT OF CONCERNS, BUT THE ONE COMING BEFORE THE TUCSON COUNCIL, BECAUSE THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE TO ANNEX THIS PROJECT TO GET IT INTO THEIR SYSTEM, SO IN ORDER TO DO THAT, THAT WAS TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THE WATER.

SO A LOT OF THE WATER CONCERNS CAME TO THE CITY.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I DON'T THINK PEOPLE FULLY UNDERSTOOD ABOUT THE PROJECT IS THAT THE DEVELOPERS WERE SAYING NOT ONLY ARE WE GOING TO USE RECYCLED WATER, WE'RE GOING TO CLICK INTO THE SYSTEM TO USE WATER THAT'S ALREADY BEEN USED MORE THAN ONCE, BUT WE'RE GOING TO REPLENISH EVERY DROP.

TED: I SAW THAT TOO.

THAT IS AMAZING.

IS IT POSSIBLE TO DO THAT?

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY WERE GOING TO DO IT, BUT I THINK IF SOMEONE IS PROPOSING THAT AND THAT WAS IN THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT THEY'D HAVE TO DO IT, AND TO ME IT'S LIKE, WHY DON'T WE DO THAT IN PHOENIX?

TED: ARE THERE PLANS FOR OTHER FOLKS PLANNING THE DATA STROS HAVE THE MITIGATION EFFORT?

>> NO, THERE'S NOT BEEN THE PUSH TO SAY, OKAY, IF YOU USE A DROP OF WATER, REPLENISH THE DROP OF WATER.

THEY DID THAT IN PHOENIX AND WERE REBUFFED.

I THINK THAT MAKES IT REALLY HARD TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT HERE IN PHOENIX.

TED: IS THERE A MOVING DYNAMIC, A MOVING EQUATION GOING ON HERE BECAUSE OF COLORADO RIVER WATER CONCERNS, JUST THE DROUGHT IN GENERAL, CLIMATE CHANGE IN PARTICULAR.

THE WHOLE NINE YARDS HERE.

IS THERE CONCERN THAT, YES THESE ARE GREAT, WONDERFUL, GOOD JOBS, ET CETERA, BUT WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH WATER WE'RE GOING TO HAVE?

>> THAT'S DEFINITELY THE FEAR THAT'S DRIVING A LOT, AND I THINK WHEN YOU HAVE THINGS THAT ARE REPLENISHING WATER AND THAT SORT OF THING, THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO GET TO.

TED: YES.

>> BUT ULTIMATELY THE DECISION HERE IS ONE OF PRIORITIES.

WHAT ARE THE THINGS WE FEEL ARE MOST IMPORTANT?

BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A POT AND WHETHER IT'S GROWING OR SHRINKING -- PRETTY MUCH SHRINKING -- THAT POT, WE ONLY HAVE THAT MUCH WATER IN IT, AND WE HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT GOES TO THAT, AND HOW DO THOSE PRIORITIES MEET FOR WHAT WE WANT TO DO AS A STATE.

TED: THAT BRINGS UP SOMETHING ELSE.

YOU COVERED COLORADO RIVER WATER AND THE SITUATION THAT WE GOT TO FIND SOMETHING BY THE END OF 2026, AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT -- WE'VE DONE SO MANY STORIES ON THIS, BUT DOES THE FACT THAT WE ARE SUCH A LEADING STATE FOR SUCH A WATER-INTENSIVE OPERATION AND INDUSTRY, DOES THAT IMPACT THE TALKS AROUND THE NEW WATER COMPACT?

>> IT COULD.

I THINK RIGHT NOW, ESPECIALLY WITH EVERYTHING ON THE COLORADO RIVER, WE JUST DON'T KNOW.

WE DON'T KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING.

WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF EVEN THE BASIC DETAILS OF WHAT THAT'S GOING TO ENTAIL, AND HOW DEEP ARE THE CUTS.

WE KNOW WE'RE GOING TO HAVE DEEP CUTS AND THEY'RE PAINFUL.

HOW DEEP ARE THEY GOING TO GO?

WE DON'T KNOW.

CERTAINLY OUR PERCEPTION, HOW WE ARE VIEWED AMONG THE COLORADO RIVER BASIN STATES IS GOING TO PLAY INTO THAT, ABSOLUTELY, BUT HOW DEEP AND HOW MUCH?

IT'S HARD TO KNOW.

TED: LAST QUESTION, TALKING ABOUT THESE THINGS AND THE ECONOMIC -- WHAT IS THE ECONOMIC -- HOW DO THEY MAKE MONEY?

HOW ARE THEY GOOD FOR ARIZONA.

>> THE DATA CENTERS?

TED: YES.

>> THE WAY THEY'RE DESCRIBED TO ME.

THINK OF IT LIKE INFRASTRUCTURE.

LIKE A FREEWAY OR WATER TREATMENT PLANT.

THIS IS THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO MAKE SURE WE'RE ALL ONLINE BECAUSE THAT'S HOW EVERYTHING IS MOVING.

THAT'S HOW IT IS TALKED ABOUT.

THERE ARE SOME PROPERTY TAX AND SALES TAX BENEFITS.

THERE'S BEEN STUDIES DONE AND THAT KIND OF THING.

IS IT A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY?

I MEAN IT'S NOT INSIGNIFICANT, IT'S LIKE WATER USE, IT'S NOT INSIGNIFICANT BUT ALSO NOT LIKE AMAZING EITHER, SO IT REALLY KIND OF COMES DOWN TO, IS THIS INFRASTRUCTURE AND HOW DO WE THEN MAKE SURE WE HAVE THAT FOR THE FUTURE?

TED: INTERESTING, VERY GOOD STUFF.

JOANNA ALLHANDS, TALKING ABOUT DATA CENTERS.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

.

TED: A MARICOPA COUNTY JUDGE RULED LAST WEEK THAT ARIZONA IS VIOLATING THE STATE CONSTITUTION BY NOT SATISFYING CONSTITUTIONAL STANDARDS IN FUNDING K-12 SCHOOL FACILITIES, SPECIFICALLY THE JUDGE RULED THAT THE STATE LEGISLATURE HAS NOT APPROPRIATED ENOUGH TO PAY FOR THE, QUOTE, PROPER MAINTENANCE OF EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS.

JOINING US IS DANNY ADELMAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECT OFFER THE ARIZONA CENTER FOR LAW AND THE PUBLIC INTEREST.

GOOD TO SEE YOU, AWHILE SINCE YOU'VE BEEN ON THE SHOW.

>> IT HAS BEEN.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> THE LAWSUIT HAS BEEN AROUND A WHILE AND DIFFERENT CONNOTATIONS, CORRECT?

>> IT HAS.

WE FILED THIS CASE IN 2017, SO IT HAS TAKEN US EIGHT YEARS TO GET HERE, BUT THIS CASE FOLLOWS UP ON A CASE THAT WE BROUGHT AND WON BACK IN THE 90s, MORE THAN 30 YEARS AGO.

TED: THAT WAS THE BIGGIE AND LASTED A LONG TIME.

OKAY.

TALK ABOUT THE LAWSUIT, TALK ABOUT WHAT THE JUDGE RULED AND WHY?

>> SO OUR ARIZONA CONSTITUTION REQUIRES THE STATE TO ADEQUATELY FUND PUBLIC SCHOOLS, AND A BIG PART OF WHAT THEY NEED TO OPERATE IS CAPITAL.

SO PEOPLE CALL IT THE FACILITIES LAWSUIT, AND THAT'S RIGHT, BECAUSE A LOT OF WHAT IT HAS TO DO WITH ARE FACILITIES BUT CAPITAL IS BROADER THAN THAT, IT'S CURRICULUM, IT'S TECHNOLOGY, IT'S BUSES.

IT'S ALL THOSE THINGS, AND THE STATE WAS JUST COMPLETELY FAILING TO FUND THOSE NEEDS, SO IF YOU LIVE IN A POOR DISTRICT WHERE THEY COULDN'T PASS BONDS OR COULDN'T PASS ENOUGH BONDS TO KEEP YOUR FACILITIES IN GOOD SHAPE, YOU ARE PROBABLY FALLING WAY BEHIND AND HAVING ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS.

IF YOU ARE IN A WEALTHY DISTRICT WITH VOTERS THAT WOULD PASS BONDS, YOUR SCHOOLS MIGHT BE IN PRETTY GOOD SHAPE, BUT THIS DISPARITY AND THIS FAILURE TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERY STUDENT HAS THE ABILITY TO GO TO A REALLY DECENT, GOOD SCHOOL, THAT'S WHAT OUR CONSTITUTION REQUIRES, AND THAT'S WHAT THEY WEREN'T DOING.

TED: THE JUDGE RULED THE SYSTEM IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, HAS TO PROVIDE A GENERAL AND UNIFORM SCHOOL SYSTEM, AND AS YOU DESCRIBE, THE BOND ISSUE WAS A BIG PART OF THE RULING.

SEEMS LIKE THAT WAS A BIG FOCUS BECAUSE IT DOES MEAN TWO SEPARATE SYSTEMS?

>> IT DOES.

WHAT THE SUPREME COURT SAID A LONG TIME AGO IS IT'S THE STATE UNDER OUR CONSTITUTION, IT'S THE STATE'S RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE THE BASICS OF EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO HAVE A GOOD SCHOOL.

PART OF THAT IS BASIC STUFF, AIR CONDITIONING, ROOFS THAT DON'T LEAK ON KIDS, SAFE BUSES, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, AND IF A DISTRICT WANTS TO BOND FOR QUOTE, UNQUOTE BELLS AND WHISTLES, IF THEY WANT TO HAVE A GREAT PERFORMING ARTS CENTER, THEY CAN DO THAT.

IF THE VOTERS ARE WILLING TO TAX THEMSELVES FOR THAT.

THAT'S OKAY.

BUT THE BASICS THE STATE HAS TO PROVIDE, AND THEY WEREN'T DOING IT.

TED: AND AGAIN, THE JUDGE, ARIZONA NOT PAYING FOR QUOTE, UNQUOTE PROPER FACILITY MAINTENANCE.

WHAT IS DEEMED PROPER?

WHAT YOU DESCRIBED?

JUST THE BASICS?

>> IT'S THE BASICS FOR WHAT YOU NEED FOR A GOOD SCHOOL.

A SCHOOL THAT LET'S KIDS LEARN AMOUNT GOOD ENVIRONMENT FOR LEARNING.

SO WHAT THE STATE HAS TO DO UNDER THE CONSTITUTION IS COME UP WITH WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

IT CERTAINLY MEANS LIKE WEATHER TIGHT AND GOOD AIR CONDITIONING.

MEANS THOSE THINGS AND OTHER THINGS.

WHAT KIND OF TECHNOLOGY?

WHAT KIND OF CURRICULUM?

THOSE ARE ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE THE BASICS, AND THEN, ESTABLISHING THOSE THINGS IS ONE PART, AND PROVIDING FUNDING SO THAT ALL ARIZONA SCHOOLS CAN MEET THOSE.

THAT'S THE SECOND PART.

THE THIRD PART -- >> YES.

>> -- THE SYSTEM ITSELF CAN'T CREATE DISPARITY, AND OUR SYSTEM FAILED ALL OF THOSE PARTS.

>> BACK TO THE SECOND PART THAT ARIZONA HAS TO PAY FOR THE, QUOTE, DEVELOPMENT AND IMPROVEMENT OF THESE SCHOOL FACILITIES IN GENERAL.

DEVELOPMENT AND IMPROVEMENT MEANS WHAT?

JUST SHOW ME YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING?

>> WELL, I MEAN, SO THE SUPREME COURT CAME UP WITH A TEST, RIGHT?

SO IN THE FIRST CASE, THE QUESTION WAS, IS THIS A STATE RESPONSIBILITY?

YES.

SO THEN THE LEGISLATURE KIND OF NIBBLES AROUND THE EDGES, DIDN'T FIX THE PROBLEM.

THIS IS BACK IN THE 90s.

WE SUED AGAIN.

THEN THE SUPREME COURT SAID, NO, HERE'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO, FOR THIS TO BE MEANINGFUL.

HERE'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO, YOU HAVE TO SET STANDARDS AND YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE THERE'S ENOUGH FUNDING AND YOU CAN'T HAVE A SYSTEM THAT CAUSES DISPARITY.

SO THOSE ARE THE TASKS.

THAT IS WHAT THE JUDGE APPLIED AND CONSIDERED A MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE FROM DISTRICTS ALL OVER THE STATE, AND IT'S HORRIBLE.

I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE THINGS.

WATER SYSTEMS, WHERE THE WATER IN A SCHOOL WAS SO TOXIC THAT NOT ONLY COULD THE KITT KIDS NOT DRINK IT, THEY COULDN'T WASH THEIR HANDS IN IT.

THEY HAD TO BOIL WATER, PUT IT IN COOLERS OUTSIDE THE BATHROOMS SO THE KIDS COULD WASH THEIR HANDS.

THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

ROOFS THAT LEAK FOR YEARS AND YEARS TO WHERE ALL KINDS OF OTHER DAMAGE OCCURS, EXISTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

THE STATE KNOWS IT.

THERE'S HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS RIGHT NOW IN DEFICIENCIES THE STATE KNOWS ABOUT, AND THEY JUST HAVE TO TELL SCHOOLS THE AGENCY THAT'S IN CHARGE OF THIS.

WELL, WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO FIX IT.

TED: WHAT IS THE STATE'S ARGUMENT?

WHAT IS THE STATE SAYING IN RESPONSE TO THIS AND COMPETITION AND CONTENTION WITH THIS?

>> WELL, PART OF IT IS, I THINK THERE'S JUST THIS -- YOU CAN'T TELL US WHAT TO DO THING THAT'S GOING ON.

NOT REALLY A GOOD LEGAL DEFENSE, AND THEN, THERE'S MORE, THEY'RE TRYING TO BLAME SCHOOL DISTRICTS, AND THEY'RE SAYING, WELL, YOU COULD HAVE SPENT YOUR MONEY ON SOMETHING ELSE.

YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO PAY YOUR TEACHER THAT MUCH, YOU COULD HAVE PAID THE TEACHER LESS AND COULD HAVE FIXED YOUR OWN ROOF.

NONE OF THOSE ARGUMENTS ARE PERSUASIVE AND THAT'S WHAT THE JUDGE RULED.

TED: SO BOTTOM LINE, HOW BIG A DEAL IS THIS RULING?

>> THIS IS A HUGE DEAL.

THIS WAS AN ENORMOUS CASE.

WE HAD SOMETHING LIKE 80 DIFFERENT WITNESSES APPEARED EITHER IN TRIAL OR BY DEPOSITION, AND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PAGES OF EXHIBITS, AND THE AMOUNT THAT THE STATE HAS TAKEN AWAY FROM SCHOOLS IS SOMEWHERE IN THE 6 TO$7 BILLION RANGE JUST IN CAPITAL FUNDING, AND JUST SINCE THEY FIXED THE SYSTEM THE FIRST TIME, AND THEN STARTED DISMANTLING IT.

IT'S A BIG DEAL.

TED: IT'S A BIG DEAL, WHAT REALISTICALLY CHANGES?

I KNOW THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS HAVE TOLD ABC 15 OR SOME OTHER MEDIA OUTLETS HERE, THEY'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND CHALLENGE THIS, THEY'RE GOING TO APPEAL.

IF THEY LOSE THE APPEAL -- LET'S GO THAT FAR -- WHAT REALISTICALLY CHANGES?

>> A LOT.

THE LAST TIME WE WON THIS CASE, THE LAST TIME THEY APPEALED, THE LAST TIME THEY LOST, THE STATE SPENT AROUND $1.5 BILLION TO FIX UP SCHOOLS, AND THAT WAS IN 1998, 2000, 2001 DOLLARS.

THE STATE KNOWS THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF PROBLEMS, SO, YEAH THEY'VE SAID THEY'RE GOING TO APPEAL AND THEY HAVE THAT RIGHT.

WHAT THEY SHOULD DO IS READ THIS OPINION.

DO THEY WANT -- A LOT OF THE LEGISLATORS ARE FROM RURAL AREAS.

DO THEY WANT THEIR KIDS TO BE EXPOSED TO THAT?

WE SHOULD WORK TOGETHER, THE GOVERNOR, THE LEGISLATURE, US, AND COME UP WITH A SYSTEM THAT FIXES THIS.

THEY KNOW HOW TO FIX IT.

THEY FIXED IT BEFORE, THEY CAN DO IT AGAIN, THAT'S WHAT WE OUGHT TO DO.

TED: DANNY ADELMAN, ARIZONA CENTER FOR LAW IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST.

GOOD CONVERSATION, GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU.

.

TED: EARLIER THIS SUMMER, OFFICIAL BROKES GROUND ON WHAT WILL BE THE FIRST HOLOCAUST EDUCATION CENTER, TEACHES THE COMMUNITY ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST THROUGH INTERACTIVE EXHIBITS AND PERSONAL STORIES.

TOLLY DIPPOLD IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE HILTON FAMILY HOLOCAUST EDUCATION CENTER.

GROUND IS BROKEN, CORRECT?

>> GROUND IS BROKEN.

IN JUNE WE OFFICIALLY BROKE GROUND AND NOW IN THE PROCESS OF THE BUILDING THAT EXISTS COMING DOWN, NOT THE HISTORIC BUILDING THERE, THE SYNAGOGUE THAT WAS THE FIRST SYNAGOGUE IN ARIZONA IS STILL REMAINING THERE, WE'RE KNOCKING DOWN THE ADDITIONAL BUILDING AND BUILDING A BEAUTIFUL EDUCATION CENTER.

TED: TALK SPECIFICALLY WHERE IT'S LOCATED AND THE HISTORICAL BUILDING YOU REFERENCED.

>> THE SYNAGOGUE THAT IS THERE WAS BUILT IN 1960 -- SORRY, 1920 -- SORRY.

TED: LONG TIME AGO.

>> 60 YEARS AGO.

IT IS REMAINING THERE, THAT'S THE SPACE WHERE STUDENTS LEARN ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE, AND THE BUILDING COMING DOWN IS THE EDUCATION CENTER, AND WE'RE BUILDING A 30,000-SQUARE-FOOT BUILDING WHERE ARIZONA SCHOOL CHILDREN COME TO LEARN.

TED: THIS IS BEHIND THE BURTON BARR LIBRARY?

>> IT IS DIRECTLY BEHIND.

TED: WHEN DID THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT FIRST TAKE PLACE?

>> I WANT TO SAY ABOUT A DECADE THAT IT WAS A DREAM OF THE COMMUNITY TO HAVE THIS COME TO FRUITION, AND THEN ABOUT MAYBE THREE YEARS AGO, STEVE HILTON, A COMMUNITY MEMBER WHOSE FATHER WAS A HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR DECIDED TO PUSH THE PROJECT ALONG AND HE MADE A DONATION, $5 MILLION, AND FROM THAT, THE COMMUNITY GAINED A LOT OF MOMENTUM AND EXCITEMENT, AND NOW THE BUILDING IS BECOMING A REALITY.

TED: I WAS GOING TO SAY THE HILTON FAMILY HOLOCAUST EDUCATION CENTER.

I WAS GOING TO ASK ABOUT THE HILTON FAMILY, AND YOU'RE SAYING HIS FATHER WAS A HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR?

>> EXACTLY.

HIS FATHER WAS A HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR.

PHOENIX HAS A ROBUST HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR COMMUNITY, AND THE EDUCATION CENTER IS SHARING THE STORIES OF THE SURVIVORS.

WE KNOW THERE IS NOTHING MORE POWERFUL FOR STUDENTS THAN HEARING FROM SURVIVORS DIRECTLY AND THROUGH TECHNOLOGY, WE WILL OFFER THAT AT OUR EDUCATION CENTER.

TED: I WAS GOING TO SAY A HOME BUILDER, THIS WOULD BE A GOOD CONSTRUCTED BUILDING.

>> IT'S GOING TO BE FABULOUS.

TED: TWO FLOORS OF EXHIBITS AND THE VIRTUAL TECH BUSINESS, WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

>> ESSENTIALLY A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY TO INTERACT WITH HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS THAT ARE NO LONGER WITH US IN SOME CASES, THEIR HOLOGRAMS, IT'S NOT ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, IT'S THE SURVIVORS WERE RECORDED BY THE USC SHOAH FOUNDATION AND RECORDED FOR AN ENTIRE WEEK AND ASKED HUNDREDS OF QUESTIONS, AND THAT WAS PUT TOGETHER SO STUDENTS HAVE INTERACTIONS WITH THE HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS BY ASKING QUESTIONS AND LEARNING FROM THEM.

TED: AND YOU WEAR HEADPHONES, RIGHT?

>> FOR THIS YOU DON'T HAVE TO.

YOU CAN STAND IN FRONT OF EXPERIENCE, WE ALSO HAVE A LOCATION WHERE YOU'LL BE ABLE TO PUT A HEAD SET ON AND THAT WILL ALLOW YOU TO GO ON A VIRTUAL TOUR MAYBE WITH A HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR TO SEE AUTHENTIC SITES TO SEE WHERE THE ATROCITIES OCCURED.

>> MUSEUMS HAVE TO HAVE ALL THESE THINGS BECAUSE THEY'RE MOVING FORWARD.

FUNDING FROM THE CITY OF MARICOPA COUNTY, FROM THE CITY OF PHOENIX.

>> WE WERE FORTUNATE, WE RECEIVED $11 MILLION FROM GOVERNMENT FUNDING TO ALLOW ARIZONA STUDENTS TO VISIT THE EDUCATION CENTER FREE OF CHARGE.

TED: AND INDIVIDUALS, CORPORATIONS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE HAVE OVER 1100 DONORS AT THE MOVEMENT WE'RE VERY FORTUNATE, AND WE'RE GOING TO BE LAUNCHING OUR CAMPAIGN SHORTLY, WE'RE HOPING TO GET OVER $5,000 DONORS TOTAL -- 5,000 DONORS TOTAL BECAUSE THE COMMUNITY HAS BOUGHT INTO THE EXPERIENCE AND WE WANT THEM TO COME AND LEARN AND YOU HAVE TO LEARN ABOUT HISTORY TO MOVE FORWARD.

TED: NOT FULLY FUNDED BUT GETTING THERE.

>> GETTING THERE.

TED: AND OPENING WHEN?

>> APRIL OF 2027 OR BY SUMMER OF 2027, A SOFT OPENING AND THEN OPEN FOR SCHOOL CHILDREN.

TED: AND YOU REFERRED TO THIS, GIVE ME A BETTER ANSWER AND EXPOUND A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME HERE.

WHY THIS IS IMPORTANT?

>> THE HOLOCAUST EDUCATION CENTER IS SO CRITICAL IN THE FIFTH LARGEST CITY OF AMERICA.

WE HAVE OVER A MILLION STUDENTS IN A DAY AND AGE WHERE HATRED IS GROWING AT A VERY RAPID PACE AND ANTI-SEMITISM IS THE BAROMETER OF THE HEALTH OF THE COMMUNITY, WE KNOW ALL HATRED IS GROWING, WE BELIEVE EDUCATION IS THE ANTIDOTE TO THE HATE AND NEED TO EDUCATE STUDENTS ABOUT THE PAST IN ORDER TO CREATE A BETTER FUTURE FOR ALL OF US.

TED: THIS IS IN COLLABORATION WITH THE ARIZONA JEWISH HISTORICAL SOCIETY, AND ALL SYSTEMS ARE GO, HUH?

>> ALL SYSTEMS ARE GO.

WE'RE PUTTING OUT THE CURRICULUM AND THRILLED TO REACH OUT TO STUDENTS IN 2027.

TED: TALLI, GOOD STUFF, THANKS FOR SHARING, APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

TED: THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.