And now the 419 with Gretchen de Bakker might kill them.

And Kevin Mullin.

Welcom into another episode of the 419, powered by our new friends at GT, GT, e Matt Killam.

Gretchen de Bakker.

I'm Kevin Mullen.

Huge thanks to our sponsors.

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Work.

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We appreciate their support an continuing, with us here on GT.

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Tada!

I feel like I'm leaving somebody out.

Maybe.

And thousands of anonymous.

Thousands of anonymous.

Supporters The grassroots roots nailed it.

Nailed it.

Right.

So, it's an exciting, it' still part of the new beginning.

Yeah.

For sure.

Yeah.

But an exciting time.

And, we're going to still hang on to pieces of our original podcast, which is the surprise guest.

But I gues before we dive into that today, you know, it's it' kind of that weird time of year where I feel like blue skies just go gray, and I don't know when we're going to get the blue skies back, but I. Maybe never.

Okay.

That's where we are.

Well, welcome to optimism.

Yes.

That's great.

And you can always count on Gretchen to bring that.

Oh, what is it?

So I remember when I was in high school, one of the teachers, the first time I've ever heard somebody say they have seasonal affective disorder.

First off, I don't think it's very nice that the initials of that are just sad.

Sure.

That's okay.

Or.

It's really clever.

I'm not sure.

But literally he had a light that he put on his desk.

Sure.

That, like, probably.

All you kids ever doing tha two hours.

Oh.

That's possible.

And you were home schooled.

Yeah.

So that is.

So that makes it even weirder.

What?

What gets you through this?

I mean, obviously you're an outdoors guy, right?

So, like, what gets you through this?

Yeah.

I don't know.

People do sort of bemoa the snow and the cold, which is, to some, not the best, but it is dark.

I, like I said, I should say, conversely, it's light about 30 minutes a day.

Yeah.

And that is actually the most challenging thing.

So I work spring.

I know as a partner in the show has a lot of wellness components to it, but we could do Wellness Wednesday every day and have it be topical so we.

Could just bring those lights in and put them on the desk.

Right.

Or the white matter on our faces?

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't I honestly, I think you just kind of grin and bear it, and give yourself some grace, and know that, this too shall pass.

Yeah.

Right.

It's the going to work when it's dark and coming home when it's dark.

Yeah.

And then you've been home for, like, an hour and you're like, well, I guess I'll go up to bed and it's 715, right?

And then I just do.

Yeah.

Because why not?

Yes.

There was and there's fears.

But I lived in Texas like it was blue skies year round.

Right?

And it would get cold a little bit.

But it was still blue skies.

And that's the piece that I. That for me, that's the hardest part.

The cold I feel like I can, I can handle I can, I can bundle up for that.

It's the, it's the gray sky when you look out your window and it's like that the when, when it snows and it's that first sno and it's white and it's clean.

It's great.

No.

And then cars start throwing and stuff and it gets gray and dirty.

And are your kids affected by the time change?

Like the fall back.

Oh man.

It's the worst.

It is.

If you give me a full moon at a time, change on the same day.

I'm just opting out of parenting.

Like, I'm.

I'm going to find a way to figure out how school daddy can do it on her own.

She's got this.

Yeah.

I don't talk to my kids.

In most of the year, so it's not a noticeable difference for me.

Only when it's sunny outside.

I don't even know their ages for this year.

All right, so we are going to be doing, surprise guest today.

Yes.

Matt and I have no idea who's coming in.

Do you want just, you know, we're going to go to break here a little bit, but do you want to just give us a quick teaser of like maybe drop one hint.

Give us the guess who.

Okay.

It's a man.

Nailed it.

This is a person I think that you both know.

Okay, this is a person wel known in the community, but I. I'm interested to get to the origin story today.

Okay.

We're going to find that out.

We'll be right bac with another episode of the 419.

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Introducing the Local Thread, a community news series uniting voices and storytellers from across the region in partnership with La Prensa, the Toledo Free Press, the Sojourner Truth, Toledo Public Schools, and veteran journalist Jerry Anderson.

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The local thread only on GTV.

Welcome back to the 419 on GTI.

Gretchen it is your surprise guest today.

Yes, usually a disappointment.

That not usually the guests can hear you at this point, so I would I would.

Different.

We didn't sa the guest was a disappointment.

We just.

Thought you are you.

Understood?

Understood.

So.

So this person, as we a as we've teased here, is a man he's been in the community for a long time, is well known to many people.

And as I said, I'm interested in getting to sort of how this person became what he is.

But he's a teacher.

He was a teacher for a long period of time.

And then he becam what I would characterize as one of probably the best development people in our community, fundraisers in our community.

Okay now you're speaking my language.

He's responsible for the next big thing.

All right.

That took place at the Toledo School for the Arts.

All right.

Specia guest today is Dave Kurtz.

Yeah.

Dave.

It's early.

Yeah.

This is really, really.

Dave.

Welcome, welcome.

Hey, good to be here.

I do have.

I do have a bone to pick.

Dave is a friend, which is a sign that, I don't know how to pick friends.

But Dave, I call Dave.

I had somebody bail on me, and I called Dave, and I was like, hey, man I need, we could do this for me.

And he's like, oh, Adam.

By, that's pretty.

Get it?

That's pretty good.

You get it now?

Yeah.

So.

So you said no friends.

You for sure.

You let me.

Yeah.

That's right, that's right.

That's usually how it goes.

Good, good.

So you said no to Matt, but you said yes to Gretchen.

Yeah.

I've already previously suggested Gretchen.

Right.

Okay.

So he.

Dave was the one that you kept that.

Sorry.

I love that you kept that secret.

Right?

Like you didn't tell Matt, like, oh, Gretchen's already.

It was hard, man.

I want to tell everybody at work, too, because I get excited about this.

Yeah.

I didn't realize that it was, on camera.

I thought it was just, you know, my technology.

You will knowledge.

Well, it works out great.

Yeah, exactly.

I have a face for radio.

That's right.

Yeah, it's a face for Mike, a face for microfiche.

So, Dave, let's start back.

Sort of.

Before any of us certainly knew you.

I know that you eventually became a teache and were one of the first people that were working at the school for the Arts, but let's go back where where is little Dave Kirk?

He grew up on the east side right in front of the refinery.

All right.

I know it's hard looking at me now, but, Yeah, I was an East Toledo kid.

And in the middle of, junior high, I moved to, Genoa area.

What did you know of high school and your transition?

It.

Was it was it saved my life.

It was really cool.

I loved it a little bit.

Tell me.

About that.

I felt like I, like, I just a whole new world opened up for me.

I was able to, you know, back then, we were huntin and doing all that crazy stuff, and I just felt like I was just becoming a little bit more adult.

Like.

Yeah, a little bit more sure, you know?

And then you stop.

Yeah.

And I grew up in the drum and bugle corps.

I was in the Drum and Baton Corps when I was little, and then I was in the Glassman Drum and Bugle Corps.

So that was my background.

You folks bee into this kind of thing?

What?

How did you.

My parents.

My dad was always into really weird instruments.

He was a vocational teacher at my high school, and, he always liked, nontraditional instruments.

And he turned me on to, like, steel drums.

And my first dru instructor was a drum corps guy.

He lived in my neighborhood, and, I wanted to do that when I was 12.

I finally auditioned, and I got in, and, we playe at the international festival.

That used to be that on the East side at the sports arena, and I always wanted to do that.

And so I finally got into playing bass drum that.

Yeah, you know, big deal.

I get my uniform.

I learn how to play the bass drum part for Star-Spangled banner, God Bless America.

And, so we go there to do that, you know, I'm, you know, I'm 66.

So whatever year that was.

I think you're saying at the time, I. Was like, that's really.

You look terrific.

That was a grea it was a really.

Long time ago.

So, we're on the bus, and, the director gets on.

He said, suit up.

We are going, we we're going t we're going to warm up outside real quick, and then we're going in and I'm super excited.

I've been wanting to do this since I was like eight.

And, I'm thinking where are we going to suit up?

And I'm sitting on this bus and the uniforms hanging in the window, and I reach over to grab my uniform and I'm thinking, where am I going to suit up?

And I look.

And the drum corps was 12 year olds through 21 year olds and young women were standing on the seat of the bus, down to their broad.

And that's when you realize you wanted to be in a band.

And I was like.

Oh.

I want to do this ever.

Yeah, I lost my mind.

It was thing.

Yeah.

And, so anyway.

We will get deeply into that, but, It's probably safe for.

All of us.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so then, I went to UT.

I was a music major.

I didn't do very well.

But, Bill, God bless his soul, he was the percussion guy at the time.

Oh, really?

And he said to me one time, Dave, if you don't increase your intimacy with this instrument I believe we can go no further.

And it was the marimba.

And I'm like, man, I don't want to play the marimba.

I just want to hit things.

I want to be a drummer, for sure.

So they basically said, yeah, you better find a different major.

And I always wanted to be a band director because I though that would be really cool.

Sure.

But I think it was divine intervention.

Really.

But yeah.

So, I, I quit school, my band was playing a lot.

I was playing in a little combo in Detroit and Toledo working for Jaco.

What kind of music?

What kind of.

And, Top 40 dance music.

We were in it for the money.

We were not artists.

That's why we do this and.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, you know, I was.

I would have worn my colors had I known it was.

It was permissible.

But.

Yeah.

It, so we started playing it.

We were playing in Detroit and Toledo and, we had an opportunity to go on the road.

And so this guy by the name of Angel Gomes in Detroit, great name.

Big cigar.

So cool.

Car.

I'd probably do it.

Be doing that.

Right.

Not had I not found another.

You know, another thing about, booking bands in Detroit.

So he started this in Nashua, New Hampshire, and we went to Fort Lauderdale, Florida in 12 weeks.

And back then you could play six week, six, six nights a week.

Yeah.

And so you travel on Sunday, right?

Lennox.

How old were you when you were doing this?

22.

Okay.

23 maybe.

Was it good money then?

Who cares?

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right.

As I told my daughter when I was teaching her how to drive, we were having this conversation and she said, dad, Why are you playing that drum?

Why did you why.

Did you play music for so long?

Have you always talked about how poor you were?

And I've tried to be a really good dad and say something intelligent.

And I said, well, there' multiple forms of currency for, artists and musicians, especially in the 80s.

And she was driving and she goes, stop talking.

And, you know, I'm like, I I just didn't know what to do.

So how.

Long so do you did that o the road tour and then how long.

We agreed.

Yeah, we agreed we were going to do it one.

Year, And 11 years later we were still doing it.

So here I am in my early 30s, wondering what's going to happen when I have to grow up.

And then I kind of fell in love with this woman from Toledo.

And wanted to spend more time here.

And I started coming back more.

How did you meet her?

On a bus.

So that didn't work out.

Sorry.

So that didn't work out.

She's here today.

Come on out.

So that didn't work out.

And, So, I ended up, I used to hang out.

When you're a musician, you hang out at music stores all day, all right?

And I hung out at a place called Rick's Drum Shop, Pennsylvania Avenue.

Rick Klein owned it.

This little place and one guy worked for him.

Dave Fogel was one of the guys that worked for him, and he and I became very good friends.

He was an incredible drummer.

I was a terrible drummer.

I was I was good for the 80s, you know?

But, this guy was a real great musician.

And we became partners and bought the drum shop.

And then a year later moved over to Monroe Street, right next to the Beirut.

That's my old stomping.

Groun place called Dave's Drum Depot.

So that's what was yours?

Yeah, well, there were two of us.

Two?

Dave' the apostrophe was at the end.

Plural possessive, which is the most.

And it was the, most expensive English lesson I've ever had in my life.

Yeah.

You know.

Is that legitimately it was after the.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Because it's two bass.

Yeah.

No thank you.

We're all learning today.

Yes.

I just I mean when I, whenever I hear somebody talk about Dave's Drum Depot, I don't think about it being Dave's drum.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, we we didn't pronounce it that way either.

Okay.

Yeah.

Perfect.

So when you once was the thing that made you, you said, did you realiz you had to figure out something to do when you were going to up?

What were the signs, what was happening that was making you think I maybe can't do this either anymore or forever, that you had to make another?

It was a lot of them.

There was a lot of.

No money.

I mean, there wer there was money, but we didn't.

You don't manage it very well.

When you're on the road, you try to entertain yourself in various ways because there's a, there's a lot of there's a lot of downtime.

You're camping and, yeah, we had band houses.

We had really nice facilities.

By the time we'd been doing it for a few years, the facilities were good.

I, I just, I saw guys doing it that were too old to be doing it, and it couldn't admit to themselves they should stop doing.

It.

You know, that's what we try to tell Gretchen that.

Yeah, yeah.

It's hard.

Yeah.

So that tha that was one of the things and, and I was, I honestly was, I think it was 1990 or 91, I came back for an extended time during the summer, and Toledo first was going on.

Yeah.

And it was right on Water Street, where, channel 11 is back in there.

And buddy Rich was playing, an I went down to see buddy Rich.

Of course, you have to g see him because he was the guy.

And, I fell back in love with Toledo.

And I'm like, this doesn't suck.

I love this town.

Yeah, why would I do anything else?

And, so that' what made me want to stay around to lead a little bit more than the drum shop.

I taught every drum line in northwestern Ohio.

As a side thing in retail music nothing happens in the summer.

So my parents had a motor home, a little fifth wheel.

They took it out to Defiance High School, put it on the on the marching band practice field.

And I lived there for a week teaching drumline.

Yeah, I've never really had a job.

Yeah.

Oh, I've never heard of the.

Name of your band.

Touched.

Touched?

Oh, that would have been a cool picture.

You get apostrophe at the end?

No, no, it's just.

All right.

No, that's for me to today.

No, no.

Definitely not.

No.

It's been it's been really fun.

Marty Porter in 1999, I had already, so when I went to my drum shop, I got kind of bored.

And so I finished my degree and my degree was an education degree in public affairs and community services.

So, I was in my 30s and, and then I had a stin as I had a lot of part time jobs and I was very diversified in my income stream because they were all very small and I was the flag instructor for the U.T.

marching band, which is really fun.

I would like to see you doing some flag.

I don' I don't really do a lot of flag.

They would.

Yeah.

Is there video of that?

Thanks.

God, I hope not.

Yeah.

I mean, is that I mean, that's a unique skill that I got to believe yo didn't know what you were doing when you started.

That.

Was that just like.

I had been.

I had been, in drum corps.

So in drum corps, when you're, when you're playing in the drum line and you know, the, the, the girls are all the flag people, you, you screw around and do that stuff and you just mess around with it.

So, do you get the.

Miniature flags in practice in your little.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I can tell, you know, I've.

Had some.

Stuff with the broom.

Now, does this does this, leak into batons as well, or are you strictly a flag?

No, no.

Batons are totally.

Different.

What?

Why?

Yeah, I just wondered.

That was a. Because that's also.

A good question.

I'm sorry.

On behalf of the show.

Because I didn't.

Know the batons was going across.

I feel like if you ever have to play the you know, two truths that a lie.

Yes, you would be the I. Everything you've said so far is it would make you win the game.

Everything I said is a lot.

Yeah, but like, nobody, nobody would ever believe.

No.

Yeah, yeah.

I was onc the director of the flag tour.

Yeah, yeah.

Fla or University of Toledo.

Yeah.

I think six years.

The fact that's a grown man is allowed to live in a camper on a school field is it was.

Yeah.

A crazy part of your story.

Not allowed anymore.

Yeah.

No, it.

Would not go over well.

All right.

So.

So let's take a break.

When we come back, I want to talk about kind of that transitio from kind of where you were to to where you are and the lessons that, you learned through touring, through entrepreneurship, through all of that, that kind of led you to be where you are today.

Yeah.

All right.

We'll come back with Dave Jerky on the 419.

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Welcome back to the 419.

We're speaking with Gretchen's, surprise guest.

Surprise anymore, Dave Jerky.

Dave.

And so funny, because when I was wanting to invite you I thought, I've always thought.

And I'm happy that we've now learned this, that this guy was in a band.

Like, don't you guys just think that he's like, the guy that, like, gives the vibe of a guy that' been in a band and a rock band.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Now, when you have.

A good way.

In a good way, all the good way.

When you came back to Toledo, were you like, in and around these other guys that were doing those and in the clubs around here, doing the other bands in the 80s and 90s?

Yeah, yeah.

You would.

I live in Oregon.

So Frankies was the stop.

Oh yeah.

Sure.

And Frankie's really didn't start crank until about 230.

Yes.

So yeah.

So we used to go every Wednesday to see The Riverman when they were playing there.

Yeah absolutely.

I was like over Dana's.

I, we pulled that guy's drum set one time.

You did?

Yeah.

And luckily I waited till the end of the show.

You know I could have done it where he didn't have any drums in the last set.

Yeah.

When I owned the drum shop I would go.

Yeah.

And when you know when you own a music store you want those.

That's your client base.

Sure.

So yeah.

And we were, we were a top 40 cover band and people don't always know that the reason the whole top 40 name came about, you were required to play, the majority of your material had to be from a top 40 list of Billboard.

You would use Billboard.

And luckily for us, like while we were out playing, the Euro Billboard came out, they would add that to the charts.

So we were able to do Depeche Mode and that kind of stuff, which is felt a little bit more progressive.

So we, I always envied I had a place in the old lis and for a short period of time, not a necessity.

And there were a bunch of musicians in there, the original musicians, Chad Smith, Chris Reducer, all those all those guys that were making music and then I just, I just thought they were the guys, and I was so happy to be in their immediate milieu, and they were always happy to be around us because we could afford to buy pizza.

Sure.

Because they were really starving artists.

They were really in the trenches.

And, yeah.

So I felt like from a musical standpoint there were no original thoughts in there.

Yeah, it was just I was a commercial musician.

I was taking photos at the mall, you know.

So you transition to your quote, adult career.

You get your education degree you start teaching immediately at the school for the Arts, started.

Subbing Toledo Public put me in as a long term somebody.

Toledo Junior high, and I was super excite because I'm from the East side.

You know, I had an earring, I had cool hair.

I thought they were all going to dig me.

And, they saw me as the, the the antithesis of what?

What?

You know, just fresh meat.

They didn't like.

Me.

Yeah.

You know, and it hurt.

Hurt my feelings for sure.

Seventh graders can be pretty brutal.

Yeah, that's the roughest.

Yeah, yeah.

It's crazy junior high kids, man, a 13 year old boys are absolutely performing to this day.

Yeah, that's not.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah.

So I subbed off and on and then, I did ten weeks at La Grange Elementar so I could get my certification.

And, when I, when I student taught there, I went to UT and when I student taught there, it was, it was eye opening.

It was amazing.

But they did not necessarily hand in hand-in-glove that people that perform also can teac what makes you able to do that?

Well, I mean, it was some of it obviously was based on necessity.

Sure.

But anybody that was that I was a good teacher.

And.

No one was going to.

Today.

Yeah.

Probably not.

Yeah.

So I, I don't kno if everything's a performance.

Right.

You know.

Yes.

The reason you saw me across the room recently at a thing was becaus I just popped out of my office because it wasn't my thing.

They were just doing it in our space, and I had to work.

So, like it?

It's.

It can be grueling.

Anything.

Anything could be a job.

Yeah.

People like you're crazy.

What, would you come off the road playing music?

It's a job.

It's like it's it's, you know, people would say, what's your favorite song?

And I'd say, the last one.

Yeah, it's.

Time to get on it.

Yeah.

I mean, do you consider yourself or have you always considered yourself to be an extrovert?

Yeah, yeah, I think so.

I've always liked attention.

But, Yeah.

But you still.

But you're still plugging in.

Always have been able to at least listen and teach.

Tell m about the satisfaction of that.

I mean, kids are a part of your life and empowering them to recognize their talent.

Working with, marching bands and specifically with the drumline, they're kind of like the football team of the marching band, like the you know, they goof off a lot.

All right.

You know, in their silly.

I always enjoyed that.

And so I was always an educator, but it was more alternative.

I should have the certification or any of that stuff.

And I always I really always enjoyed that because we could talk about things.

The band director couldn't talk about all the other teachers.

Yeah, because I wasn't employed by the school.

So we could talk about, well, you know, it was like the band boosters paid your wages or whatever.

Sure.

And when I came to GSA, a reporter offered me a job there while I was at my drum shop, and, I said, I'll try it.

So I tried it part time.

And those kids really needed, And they probably all do, but they really needed some, some more hardcore education about, you know, I had 13 year old that were outwardly discussing being sexually active an I'd be like, what is happening?

Yeah, sure.

And so, you know, we we woul I would do things that were not traditionally, accepted stuff that you didn't cover in health class, you know, and, so I always enjoyed that and I think it worked.

Yeah.

And it makes sense because we're talking 99, 2000 and 2001 were the three years that I taught the most at TSA.

And you made it through the Y2K disaster.

Yeah, yeah.

What a relief.

But in those kids are still connected with me.

Yeah, yeah.

But, you.

Know, they're in their 40s.

Now.

Yeah.

Trauma bonding I think is what they.

It's what is it.

Don't listen.

Trauma trauma.

Bonding.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Really.

And they help us put the place together.

Yeah.

So that's why.

Well, let's back up real quick and talk about just in case any of our listeners haven't, our viewer haven't don't know what TSA is.

Can you, tell us, give us a brief history, sort of what it was back there in 1999 and 98.

There was a law in Ohio that allowed charter schools to exist.

So this group of creatives and Toledo people that worked for the rep, people that worked with, the ballet, all the all those little pods of organizations that service the arts, wanted to start a school and, that was their in.

And they hired this guy by the name of Marty Porter.

Everyone in the arts knows who served a year and a half.

Is she put up the first money to start the place so they could pay that guy a salary.

When they first started?

I think he had six months to put a school together.

Wow.

They, they they rented tw floors at the Secord building.

When he walked me through to convince me to be his percussion guy, there were empty rooms and there were empty rooms.

On the first day of school I had an empty room at $300.

So.

And that was the first location was the C Corp building.

The C Corp building wouldn't be there until 2005.

Okay.

Also good name for your second band in and $300.

Yeah, I thought it was $300.

It's a good name.

It was.

It was, It was amazin because the parents that came, they wanted something special for their kids.

And the place.

The place we couldn't make payroll.

I remember them, the schoo not being able to make payroll because of some glitch at the state level that they didn't get a check.

And the board members reached in their pocket, pulled out their personal checks, and wrote checks.

An order for Marty to make a deposit and keep the place going.

Yeah, and those are the those are the legendary guys.

They have the star on the Walk of Fame.

Yeah.

Stuff.

You know.

So you're teaching percussion.

Percussion.

And we were blending it with the academics.

And it really spoke well to me because I've always been a drum nut.

And the more drums that I would collect, I would try to learn about them.

I remember a conversation I had with my dad.

I was on the road and I found this snare drum and everything was wooden.

And, I asked him about it and there was a there's always a date stamp on the inside.

And I said, the state stamp 1942, and everything's wooden.

And he's like, well, hey, did you know.

That.

In 1942 the war was going on and only 10% of non war items could be manufactured?

Only 10% could be metal.

And I'm like done.

No.

And I still have that drum because I remember that.

And I think when you become passionate, if you become passionate about anything digital technology, if you become passionate about clay and making things and you really study it, everything else falls in line.

Yep.

And that's that's the premise of TSA arts integration.

So it's arts, it's education.

And certainly with the arts, the performing, written musical arts, theater, everything in the.

Student theater.

Dance, creative writing, music and visual art.

I also, you know, one of the othe things not to be dismissive of and also not to generalize, but it it takes an unusual or a unique person to be the artist that you ar and also run a business, right?

Creating, or having never see any of the economics or adding commerce to a skill or a calling isn't always hand in glove.

So what's happening on Adams Street is also giving kids, or entitling the to say what you do is of value, and it's worth that.

So artists have value.

And this is a model.

You create an asset.

This is what you do is unique and it is worth something.

And this is the model for selling it.

That's the whole purpose of the portal on Adams.

Yeah The reason we built that portal.

It's a it's a gallery.

It's a makerspace.

Yes.

It's a school store and it's a performance.

So when did you move to the Adams Street location?

We moved to.

It's actually 14th Street.

Back.

14th in Adams.

Yeah.

We moved there in 2005.

We handled the top two floors.

Okay.

And then it was in 2000, and 23 that the whole new space opened.

But when did you start th development of that new space?

It was kind.

Of like it was a natural progression.

I remember Marty Porter saying, all these kids are going to end up on stage.

We need to we need to find training fo them in the ancillary positions of the industry.

So there was space on the second floor that we purchase and we built a recording studio.

A I call it the seamstress shop, but it's really, Tudor costuming and fashion design.

Yeah, that a scene shop and and so all of those things, all of those ancillary positions, a ticket office, a school store, our school store, we had a school store every couple stores.

I mean, in there.

Yeah.

But it was on third floor.

On second floor.

So only people coming into the building would go to the school store.

Yeah.

So we realized after a few years this is ready for the public.

Yeah.

And you know, I'm not a smart guy.

It it's I really don't it's based.

Okay?

It's really based on, it's really based on three things.

Fans, friends.

And once you become friends with somebody, you can figure ou if they could become a funder.

Who was worried about that last.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I got some FCC stuff.

I was like, oh, do you bring this home?

No, no.

No, I remember I was working for the mayor's office at the time, and you and others from TSA came in and had the blueprints.

Yeah.

And the drawings and the designs, because there was I mean, it's people many people know it's a it's an extraordinarily complicated process to do what you did there for the development, for the money, for the I mean, everything.

But it's amazing.

It was a transformational project for Adam Street.

You could see it at the time, but it has that has come to fruition.

I mean, that has actually happened.

Can you talk a little bit about that?

I want to I just want to back up a little bit because I want to get there.

Okay.

But I think where we are in the story, you're still teaching percussion.

So like how did this happen?

I mean, Matt, you know, talked about, you know, being a drummer and, you know, being good at business or being a teacher.

But but for you to move into this fun development role that you're in now.

I've always been a hustler.

You know, it's hard to believe, in, in I would monetize anything that I could get my hands on, just for survival sake, in the early years.

So I think I've always thought entrepreneurially one time I want to get my driver's license, and the lady asked me my occupation.

I said, entrepreneur, and she said, can you spell that?

And I said, self-employed.

Because I couldn't write.

And I'm sorry, doctor.

Yeah.

Right.

So, We I've always thought that way, and I think artists that think that way, you know, you take Jeff Stewart, Jeff Stewart knows how to how to survive and do great work and create stuff.

And the most important thing is to let our students know that that's important, that the arts have value.

I tell them, if you put in your house, they live on some of these garbage can, it's because they can't do it.

You should be at least making plumber wages.

You know you can't be a plumber either.

So, the so I think they get that.

So the entrepreneurship thing has always crept into the work that we do.

We, we had a, I had a group of kids that played, buckets when we first started next, when we were next to the score and the scor would be having some convention or something in the middle of the week, and our kids would be I call them punks in the alley.

There's a little space between the children's.

They'd be down there because it reverberated and sounded really cool.

Yeah, and we had a bucket.

They would throw money in the bucket and the kids would be like, $62.

Man, what are we going to do?

Yeah, let's buy.

A new snare.

Drum.

Yeah.

That's right And so we.

Started doing that.

We went through five development directors in four years because they didn't understand the culture.

And I'm glad you asked that question.

There was a guy by the name.

Still, he still exists.

He's alive and well.

A guy by the name of Glen Richter who ran the United Way.

Oh, top.

Shelf, clean man.

Yeah, yeah, he and.

I were from two totally different worlds, and he was on the development committee, and, he taught me so many things.

When we moved into that new building in 2005, we were all having cocktails and Manhattans and talking about things.

With the students and.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah, yeah.

I said, we need to build a big fence around this place with a guard shack.

Unless you have a sticker, you can't get in.

You said.

That.

I said that, and Glen Wicker goes or we could do the more noble thing, David.

And I'm like, what's that?

He said we could help transform this neighborhood.

And I remember getting goosebumps.

And I'm like, this is what's guys so cool.

And we started on that.

We started we started joining committees, the Uptown Association, and we started getting involve in all.

Of that being present.

And so when we when we talked about the next big thing and for the city, it was community development, it was workforce development, it was income and marketing for the school.

Yeah.

So we're going to take a take a quick break.

When we come back, we're going to talk about the next space and the next big thing.

And, and what's coming u in the future for Toledo School for the Arts with Dave Gursky?

We will see.

You're watchin and listening to the 419.

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Welcome back into the 419.

We're speaking with Dave Durkee from Toledo School for the Arts.

He was Gretchen's surprise guest today.

You were talking before we took the break about kind of that transition into the development fundraising space.

I mean, that's not a that's I guess I think about, you know, going back to, you know, the guy who went from playing drums to say, I can lead a Flag corps.

You know, like, I mean, you were.

This is a bigger transition.

You obviously saw it done and saw it done well and saw it done poorly.

Is that how you learned to do this, or where did you get that from?

Maybe I had I remember seeing Snoop Dogg's, reality show with his family, and his wife said something to him.

That's exactly how I thought this was going to start.

I said, yeah, he.

Said.

He said under his breath, don't say what I can't do.

And that's always kind of been.

And I'm like, he just said it.

He just said how exactly how I feel on a on a daily basis.

Yeah.

But there is I mean, there's a certain amount of ego that allows for what you just said, but also the, a healthy ego that it's a, there's the abilit to take in information.

Right.

You wanted to do these things, but you never I've never heard you in the time that I've known you which is now over a decade.

Say, I got this.

You know what I mean?

Like you were able to listen to the gentleman.

Your relative mentor.

Those are my words, but certainly sound that way.

Like you had to be a vessel for information.

You're a hustler, bu you had to take in to put out.

Yeah, because it's not about me.

It's not about.

Me.

I still on the east side.

Yeah, sure.

I tell the board of directors.

Hey, man, I don't know.

They just took the wheels off my house, you know?

Yeah.

But I, But you got the vision.

Well, you know what?

It's a shared vision You're through a lot of people.

Standing behind me, I always like to talk about me jumping up on a big, great, big, giant trampoline, thinking I'm a. I'm way too high.

And I look down on the board of directors just sitting around saying, go ahead, go ahead.

Yeah.

I mean, the teaching staff, the people to get it, get it.

And, you know, we're not for everybody.

It it's a it's a little bit lower pay scale.

And it's a lot of work and the expectation is you put yourself in.

Yeah.

But to your point and to your, you know, lesson from the 80s is there's different forms of currency.

Yeah.

I there's a there's a young person in my life, who is very dear to me that this is not really based on intellect.

But this TSA i one of the places that they are the most comfortable.

It is a it is a home for them.

And I think going to another high school, it would have been a rough road.

So, I mean, this is, maybe, micro fo this part of the conversation.

But when you think about a kid, when we talk about this show, we we talked a little bit about Howard Ster when he thinks of an audience.

Howard Stern used to thin that he was talking to himself as a younger person or as a listener.

When you think of a TSA kid either now or who you're wanting to.

I encouraged to attend.

Who who is a person?

What do they look like?

What do they do?

They could look like anybody.

I think that I think it's just a, our kids do gravitate to our place because they don't feel like they fit in.

And I remember saying it to a kid one time why do you love it here so much?

And he said, because her at my old school, I was a freak.

And here everybody's freaks.

Yeah.

And even you guys, you I'm.

Like, whoa, wait a minute.

You know that I think about, you know, I have my promo photos of my band on the wall.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You were touched.

But I think it's it's it's.

Yeah, it's an alternative culture and preserving that culture.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It is critical.

And it is an amazing space.

If you want to talk a little bit about the new building on now more, the focus is on Ada Street, at least for the public.

You have the gallery space, as you mentioned.

You have the black box theater.

You have, the meeting spaces, the studios.

How has it been?

What what have you been?

I mean, I think I went to a, an event there once where there were cars even in there that were opening things.

Yeah, the building was originally Willys Overland, so I was going to.

Ask.

Okay, 120 years ago.

Yeah.

It was the finishing plant for non war vehicles.

It was the it was the, the, the they did the upholstery and the painting there.

And that first floor, if you go back in history, our architects found all this history along with our social studies department, kids studying the building that they're in.

They, they did the research on that building, and that was a showroom.

And we have one of the original pictures of the building where the cars in that space.

Even the sign, the portal sign, you know, coming down, they call that a blade sig because it's a two sided jigsaw.

I learned all this stuff by doing this, you know, and being involved in it.

So that blade sign used to say overland on it.

So this is kind of an homage to that whole.

Sure.

Opening that space.

That was fun.

Yeah.

The car show.

And what kind of thing are happening in the black box theater and and describe what a black box theater is for people.

A black box theater is a just blank slate for mostly theater people.

And you could do anything you want in there.

And, so we built it.

It'll hold up to 400 people.

Our department tries to book outside shows.

We brought Crystal Bowersox in.

Ross gave the noted poet, nationally renowned poet was just recently there.

And we try to bring outside shows in to create income for the school.

There's a gallery, and that show changes out at a minimum once a month.

The gallery's very active and doing great.

And there's a school stor and everything in there is made by students.

It's a workforce development program called Art force, where kids can stay after school and work for Art force silkscreen and T-shirts, building glass, doing all that kind of work.

The place is open Tuesda through Saturday, noon to six.

We have regular retail hours.

Yeah.

The public can come into the portal, but they can't go into the school.

The school can come in to bot because it's part of the school.

Do you have students?

For example, the gallery space.

That's a very specific hanging.

Art.

Fine art in the gallery is a very specific skill set.

Is that somethin that students are involved in?

And they're involved in runnin the store and things like that?

Yeah.

This year, Taylor Moyer, ou social studies teacher, he, he, created a curriculum called, Gallery Gallery and, something.

Curation.

And it's about framing, hanging, the bookkeeping, how how how a gallery is run.

Yeah.

How a school store is run.

The more we turn it ove to students, the better we are.

So 90% of the tim when you walk into that space, there's a student there to greet you, talk to you about the space.

And it's it's interesting piece of the education as you talk about kind of what those lessons are, right, that every one of the students that goes through that program is going to lead or run a gallery.

But but they're going to learn budgeting and finance and accounting and all these other skills to entrepreneurship, that skill that help them as an employee.

But but they're doing it through the guise or the veil of this thing tha they love and they care about.

And, and I think, you know, that' some of the magic of, of TSA is, you know, I'm going to get you to learn this thing that you need to learn.

If you find your passion.

You never work a day in your life.

You go in there because you're called to go in there.

Yeah, but.

But not every one of your graduates, I mean, is the goal for everyone who graduates to be a full time professional artist.

So the goal is for them to figure out how to do something very well and adapt that or just that to wherever they end up.

Was there an moment meanin coming from the seeker building, to where you are now that, you'r like, this is going to make it?

Or are you wired.

To think or do you still think that.

You know, you never know.

Yeah, yeah.

You never know.

Especially in this current climate.

You know, we could get cut.

We could get cuts like crazy.

You know what's going on right now in the struggles that they're house.

You'r anticipating a $60 million cut.

You know, I think our budget is 10 million.

You know, if you cut 600,000 from it it'll bring you to your knees.

So no I think it's always a struggle and I, but I think creativity is, is, is, is a dominant force with our people.

Resilience and are.

People that you know, if we couldn't pay them would they come in.

Yeah.

I think they'd come in for a little while till we figured it out.

They would be like, okay, you know we still got to get here.

Yeah.

And that's the spirit of the whole place.

How many?

I feel like this culture just as well.

I heard a story.

I'll let you tell the real story here.

But where did the the mascot from?

So, the school for the Arts.

So what is it?

Where did it come?

It's kind of become legend.

Marty Porter was when you were a charter school, which is what we are.

We call it a community school.

Because I think it explains it a lot better.

It wasn't my idea to call it a community school, but, we definitely embraced that.

Community schools have to have a sponsor, and we approached a local school system about being our sponsor at one point.

And, they what?

One of the people said, ther will be an art school in Toledo when pigs fly.

And, so Marty Porter would always tell that story.

And, so now we have a pig.

Flying pig that was created in Toledo by graphic design build that that's 15 years in the making.

We've been talking about that pig forever.

And here's what's amazing.

And you just put it on the roof of the school.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Here's what's amazing.

The kids are supposed to at our schoo about financing and such things.

They come to me from the school paper, wanted to know how we paid for that pig.

Why would we spend so much money on that pig?

And what did it cost?

What did it cost to put up there?

How much did it cost for that crane to come there?

And all that hoopla?

And they want to know why.

They want.

They want us to be responsible.

Sure.

You know, they want us to be responsible for that.

And luckily, I knew that that was going to come.

So we ran a little campaign with, I call them the OG, the original people that started the place.

And they love the pig ide that they love the mascot.

And, I called it, paying for the pork and a little pan for the pork camp.

Love it.

And we raised all the money to create the pig and do all the stuff to put it up there that kids got to watch it be built, which is just.

It's it's got a. Great it's such.

A cool place.

It's got to be a bit of a, point of pride, but also a bit of, I feel like a bit of a middle finger to the folks that doubted it.

Right.

To see now what wha TSA has done, I mean, you guys.

And again, take, take state ratings with a grain of salt, right.

When they when you're in your favor.

We love them when they aren't.

We don't talk about them as much.

But the reality is there's som truth to you guys being named.

I think at one point you were named, you know, one of the best, if not the best charter schools in the state of Ohio.

Yeah.

You know, that's something that's a point of pride.

Have to say, not only are pigs flying, but the pigs are soaring.

Yeah, yeah.

We would never put our middle finger up at someone.

But, Rick Ross.

Obviously.

Yeah.

Yes.

Right You won't be the last one today.

What did I do when I came in today?

Yeah.

That's right.

Yeah.

What's the what's Tessa's relationship with the other, cultural organizations in the community?

I know, I know a little bit about the one with the Art Commission, but, with art museum and individual artists, place like graphite design and build.

And how do you how do you foster those relationships?

Well We had to define some of them.

Because a corporation can't be a partner.

And partner is another nonprofit with education as part of their mission.

So when Marty Porter started the school, he looked at everybody' annual report and the orchestra of the ballet and said, so I see you heard that.

It says, education.

What do you do?

Well, we have these people that come out to the schools.

Yeah, I want that.

Can can you bring us that?

And it was an interesting paradigm shift because, we ran this partnership program for years.

Board members were involved in it.

And one year.

We.

Committed by mistake in the partner list, the Toledo Symphony.

And we got a call and we were like, oh, this partnership is as important to.

Yes.

Is it is to I understand that.

Yeah.

And, it, i we went to the RFP Association of Fundraisin Professional Awards last week, or a few weeks ago, and I was blown away that we were able to buy a table.

You know, we've been doing it for a few years, but when you think about when we started, we couldn't even go to that party.

We wanted a lot in that party.

And and we bought we sponsored a table.

We threw an extra few dollars to sponsor a table.

And our ads were with the museum.

Yeah.

You know, Live Arts Toledo.

I don't I don' remember who else, but I'm like, how did that happen?

Yeah.

You know.

You you belong in these spaces.

In this the the art and creation compound that you built on 14th and Adams.

Is there another mediu that you've fallen in love with or it's becom particularly compelling to you since you've been immersed in all of it personally?

Yes.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, you're.

A music.

Guy.

Something new every day.

Cool.

It's amazing.

Yeah.

And people will use words.

I'm like, what does that mean?

Yeah, that part of that's what the.

Kids go through.

That's the beauty of us.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What's what's next for TSA?

We are really trying to refine the work that we do at the portal.

We have a new artistic director.

Who is looking deeply into the CTE aspect, career, tech education, and expanding that.

And I think the whole I think the whole, we're just going to keep doing it, you know, we're going to add 20 more kids per year for the next two years will be 840 kids.

About two years from now, we'll be at capacity.

And that's why we built that space.

So the whole building now, you know we don't share it with anybody.

It's pretty cool.

That's really cool.

Yeah.

You are an educator.

It's time for us to flip the script any a little bit.

We've got to.

We got a. Quiz spell entrepreneur.

Okay, okay.

Yeah.

And that way.

And I wouldn't know if you're right anyway.

Yeah.

Self-employed.

All right, so we've got our little, 419 questionnaire.

I think we're still workshopping the name on that.

Yeah, we are, we are.

Yeah.

It out.

Maybe by the time this airs, we will have already figured out, and, it's going to feel weird to people, but at some point, we're going to know what we call it, and we're going to consistently call that.

But until then this is Gretchen's crazy quiz.

Well, I like that.

Okay.

So the concept obviously is the 419.

So we're going to ask you fo quick answer random questions.

And the first thing that comes to your mind okay.

Well we have editors ready.

Yeah.

Finish the phrase.

The way to my heart is food.

Okay.

Do you think you'd make a good spy?

No.

Why?

That's exactly what.

I feel that was.

That was one.

Question.

I have a secret.

Okay.

And your first celebrity crush.

I can't even think right now.

Twiggy okay.

And how does someone know if you're mad.

My fac gets redder than it normally is.

Okay.

And I tell them okay.

Now the second part of our quiz is, is the one of the 419.

And so we wanted to ask you what is the number one favorite thing, best thing, about for you, for for for Toledo, for the region.

I knew you were going to ask me this.

Yes, and I got it down to two.

Okay.

Familiarity is my number one thing.

Okay.

But forgiveness is also what it up against, because, you know, I never thought I'd have a real job.

I never thought that I would be serving children at the level that I am.

And along with the other people that I work with.

And there's a certain leve of forgiveness that was needed based on my past behaviors.

But.

I like that too.

Okay.

And the nine.

We could all use forgive.

Us.

That's right.

Yes.

That could.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Of the the nine of the 419 concept is describe the region from your perspective in nine words.

Gritty.

Helpful, creative.

Vibrant.

Steady.

Blue color.

Did I say resilient?

Are you calling them that?

Six.

Oh gosh.

Industrial.

Okay.

Because if we don't embrace that yeah you're going to be miserable no doubt.

Where are we.

So then you have two more.

I think that's a. Creative blue color maybe kind of.

Creative.

Yep.

Thank you.

There you go.

And that creative.

Very good.

He's Dave Durkee.

Dave, thank you so much for joining us.

You have fun on the program today.

We appreciate the great work you do.

The community 100%.

And, everything you're doing, with with TSA in the arts community.

Thank you.

Come visit the portal.

Have you you haven't been in it?

I have not been in.

You have not been in.

I know you have.

I know you.

Yeah.

And it's where the arts unite.

That's right, I love it.

Yeah, I love it.

Thanks for having me.

We'll we'll be right back to rack up to wrap up this episode of the 419.

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Welcome back to the 419.

Man.

All right, so we joke with Gretchen that, like, we never know what we're going to get with her.

Surprise guest.

Yes, but but this was a good one.

It's usually quality, though.

You have to admit that, It also is a nice transition from our, mildly depressing.

Right, opening your right climate to.

Yeah, You can't you can't be depressed with the Dave.

There's there is no gray skies.

I feel like for that guy.

Right.

It's it's blue skies ahead.

So the what the team there is, I mean, yeah, it's, amazing.

No, I mean that sincerely.

There are a couple people in my life, that say their words.

Saved their.

Lives.

The culture, the building.

Yeah.

I mean.

I will I will say for me, for somebod who worked in education.

Right?

It's that, you know when the less I knew about TSA, the more I was like, yeah, that's not a good idea.

Like, I don't, I don't I don't like what they're doing.

And the more I learn about TSA, the more I'm like, okay, yeah, I thin I think they're on to something.

And you see, I, you know, I what I liked is the conversation, I don't remembe who was that said it that Dave, that somebody said to him, when the suggestion was to pu a fence up around the property and it was like, why don't we just become a part of the community?

I imagine if every organization did that right.

Imagine if everybody said, rather than, let's try to build up a fence.

What if we tried to build a community?

What?

That what came across the fence for, Sponsorship opportunity?

Fences are great.

I highly recommend We are a fence first group here.

Oh my goodness.

What?

It's great to lear about what I believed would be, an origin story, including being in a band.

So I'm happy that that's confirmed.

What's, kind of favorite favorite thing you learned?

It's nice to be around, jerky.

Always.

I knew most of that.

But it's good.

It's nice to be able to ask questions about the why or the moments.

You know, it can seem very easy from the outside.

The things happen, but they don't just happen.

All right.

Thanks for listening.

This is been the 419.

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