(UPBEAT MUSIC) - TODAY ON "TECHRIDES," I'M RIDING WITH SERIAL ENTREPRENEUR AND INVESTOR DAVID CUMMINGS.

DAVID IS THE FOUNDER OF THE ATLANTA TECH VILLAGE.

ATV IS ONE OF THE LARGEST TECH HUBS IN AMERICA.

DAVID BUILT ATV AFTER SELLING HIS STARTUP PARDOT, FOR A $100 MILLION.

DAVID ALSO RUNS ATLANTA TECH VENTURES THROUGH WHICH HE INVESTS IN SOME OF ATLANTA'S HOTTEST STARTUPS.

♪ OH, OH, OH ♪ ♪ OH, OH, OH, OH, OH, OH, OH ♪ I'LL TALK WITH DAVID ABOUT HIS CAREER AS AN ENTREPRENEUR, WHAT HE LOOKS FOR IN THE FOUNDERS AND COMPANIES HE INVESTS IN, AND THE CURRENT STARTUP SCENE IN ATLANTA.

THE BEST PART IS WE GET TO RIDE IN DAVID'S STUNNING, 2017 ACURA NSX.

(UPBEAT MUSIC) - HI EVERYONE, I'M EDWIN MARCIAL.

WELCOME TO "TECHRIDES."

I'M HERE TODAY WITH DAVID CUMMINGS, FOUNDER OF ATLANTA VENTURES AND FOUNDER OF ATLANTA TECH VILLAGE, ONE OF THE LARGEST STARTUP HUBS IN AMERICA.

DAVID, WELCOME TO "TECHRIDES."

- THANKS FOR HAVING ME GREAT TO BE HERE.

- YEAH, WE'RE RIDING TODAY IN YOUR 2017 ACURA NSX, WHICH IS A REAL TREAT.

I'VE BEEN LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS FOR A WHILE AS WELL.

- YEAH, I LOVE THIS CAR.

IT'S THE COMBINATION OF VISCERAL V6 500 HORSEPOWER PLUS THREE ELECTRIC MOTORS, SO 573 TOTAL HORSEPOWER.

SO YOU CAN CREEP AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD IN QUIET MODE AND YOU DON'T DISRUPT THE NEIGHBORS, AND YOU CAN UNLEASH IT ON THE TRACK AND HAVE A GREAT TIME.

SO IT'S REALLY A GREAT CAR.

- IT'S FANTASTIC.

I REMEMBER BACK IN COLLEGE, MY FIRST JOB WHILE I WAS IN SCHOOL, I WAS WORKING AT ACTUALLY A STARTUP THAT WAS BUILDING SOME MEDICAL SOFTWARE, AND ONE OF THE DOCTORS, FOUNDERS OF THAT COMPANY, HE HAD A '91 NSX.

AND BACK THEN THAT WAS ALL THE RAGE.

- SO THAT WAS REALLY THE JAPANESE SUPERCAR THAT YOU COULD DRIVE EVERY SINGLE DAY, THIS DAILY DRIVE DRIVER CAR THAT HAD THE PERFORMANCE OF A FERRARI.

SUCH A BREAKTHROUGH, FROM A CAR MANUFACTURING POINT OF VIEW.

SO REALLY EXCITED THAT, ACURA BROUGHT THE NSX BACK HERE IN 2017, AFTER CALL IT, 15, 20 YEARS OF A LITTLE HIATUS THERE.

- SO I WANNA TALK ABOUT YOUR ENTREPRENEURIAL JOURNEY.

HAVE YOU ALWAYS BEEN AN ENTREPRENEUR, IT SEEMS LIKE YOU GOT STARTED REALLY EARLY IN COLLEGE.

I READ THAT YOU STARTED HANNON HILL OUT OF YOUR DORM ROOM AT- - I DID, YEAH.

I'VE ALWAYS HAD THE ENTREPRENEURIAL BUG.

IN MIDDLE SCHOOL, I TAUGHT MYSELF HOW TO WRITE CODE.

A FRIEND OF MINE ON THE TRAVELING BASEBALL TEAM GAVE ME A BOOK "TEACH YOURSELF C IN 21 DAYS."

AND SO- - WOW, C'S NOT EASY TO LEARN EITHER.

- IT'S NOT EASY, NO.

SO EIGHTH GRADE I WAS WRITING CODE TO MAKE SURE MY MATH HOMEWORK WAS CORRECT, AND THEN NINTH GRADE IN HIGH SCHOOL, I WAS WRITING SHAREWARE SOFTWARE.

- [EDWIN] WERE YOU MAKING MONEY WITH THAT BACK THEN?

- YEAH, I WAS MAKING MONEY, SELLING 'EM FOR $12.95.

- SO AFTER HIGH SCHOOL YOU WENT TO DUKE, IS THAT WHERE YOU STARTED HANNON HILL?

IS THAT WHERE- - IT IS?

- WHAT WAS THE IDEA BEHIND THAT?

- IT WAS SOFTWARE TO MAKE IT EASY FOR NON-TECHNICAL PEOPLE TO UPDATE AND MAINTAIN A WEBSITE.

WE'VE BEEN IN BUSINESS FOR 20 YEARS WITH HANNON HILL.

WE'VE SOLD TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF THAT CONTENT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM AND STILL GROWING.

(UPBEAT MUSIC) - SO THEN LET'S FAST FORWARD.

SO WAS PARDOT YOUR NEXT COMPANY THAT YOU STARTED?

- YEAH, SO WITH HANNON HILL, I GOT SUPER INVOLVED IN SALES AND MARKETING, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO ACQUIRE CUSTOMERS, HOW TO MAKE IT REPEATABLE, HOW TO MAKE IT SCALABLE.

AND SO I HAD THIS IDEA FOR BUILDING A MARKETING PRODUCT THAT WAS REALLY DESIGNED FOR THE BUSINESS MARKETERS, SUCH THAT IT TOOK SOME OF THE LESSONS LEARNED TRYING TO ACQUIRE CUSTOMERS FOR HANNON HILL, AND MADE IT SO THAT IT WAS A MORE SCALABLE, REPEATABLE PROCESS.

SO WE STARTED THAT IN 2007.

AND FROM A BUSINESS POINT OF VIEW IT WAS ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME.

COUPLE YEARS TO GET TO A HUNDRED PAYING CUSTOMER AND BUILD OUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND A GREAT TEAM AND A GREAT CULTURE.

AND THEN FIVE YEARS INTO THE BUSINESS, WE WERE ABLE TO SELL IT TO EXACTTARGET, WHICH WAS QUICKLY BOUGHT BY SALESFORCE.COM.

AND WE HADN'T RAISED ANY VENTURE CAPITAL.

THE WHOLE TEAM WAS RIGHT HERE IN ATLANTA AND IT WAS ONE OF THE EARLY SAAS, SOFTWARE AS A SERVICE SUCCESS STORIES IN TOWN.

SO WENT FROM NOTHING TO $100 MILLION EXIT IN FIVE YEARS.

AND SO THAT'S WHERE THE IDEA FOR THE ATLANTA TECH VILLAGE REALLY CAME FROM.

AND WITH THE TECH VILLAGE, WE WERE REALLY TRYING TO SOLVE A COUPLE DIFFERENT PROBLEMS.

THE MAIN ONE WAS COMMUNITY.

HOW DO WE HAVE HUNDREDS, IF NOT THOUSANDS OF ENTREPRENEURS UNDER THE SAME ROOF?

HOW DO WE GO FROM AN ATLANTA MARKET THAT HAVE LOTS OF GREAT STARTUPS, BUT ATLANTA HAS LOTS OF COMMUNITIES THAT ARE SPREAD OUT, EVERYBODY LIVES IN DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS.

HOW CAN WE BRING SOME CRITICAL MASS TO WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE COMMUNITY?

AND SO HAVING THE TECH VILLAGE MADE A, YOU KNOW, WE'LL CALL IT A CENTER OF GRAVITY FOR THE AREA.

THIS IDEA THAT WE COULD HAVE A THOUSAND PEOPLE UNDER THE SAME ROOF, HUNDREDS OF STARTUPS, ALL KINDS OF PERSONALITIES.

THAT'S ONE OF MY FAVORITE THINGS ABOUT ENTREPRENEURS IS THAT THEY'RE SO OPTIMISTIC, GLASS HALF FULL.

AND SO CREATING A COMMUNITY WITH A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FEET, AND JUST ALL KINDS OF CRAZINESS IN A GOOD WAY REALLY WAS THE BIG IDEA.

ENTREPRENEURS WANNA BE AROUND EACH OTHER, THEY LIKE SHARING IDEAS, THEY LIKE HAVING THE CAMARADERIE.

AND SO LET'S TAKE IT AND LET'S JUST GO BIG WITH IT.

AND SO 103,000 SQUARE FEET, IS HOW BIG THE TECH VILLAGE IS NOW.

BUT THERE WAS REALLY AN IMPORTANT POINT THERE, WHICH WAS THE COMMUNITY SIDE, BRED MORE SUCCESS.

AND SO THE BIG IDEA FROM THE TECH VILLAGE IS BY HAVING ENTREPRENEURS AROUND ENTREPRENEURS, WE TRULY BELIEVE, AND WE'VE DEMONSTRATED IT, THAT THE CHANCE OF SUCCESS GOES UP.

SO ENTREPRENEURS BEING AROUND EACH OTHER, THEY SUCCEED AT A HIGHER LEVEL, AND THEY SUCCEED IN A WAY THAT'S BETTER THAN BEING ON THEIR OWN.

SO ANOTHER WAY TO SAY IT, TECH VILLAGE INCREASES THE CHANCE OF SUCCESS, OF ALL THE ENTREPRENEURS THAT ARE IN THE COMMUNITY.

AND THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE TECH VILLAGE.

WE COULD HAVE COOL BUILDING AND COOL OFFICE SPACE AND AMAZING MENTORS LIKE YOURSELF AND AMAZING INVESTORS.

BUT IF WE'RE NOT SUCCEEDING AT A HIGHER RATE, AND IF WE'RE NOT SUCCEEDING AT A GREATER SCALE, THEN IT'S ALL FOR NAUGHT.

- YEAH, IT CREATES THIS REALLY UNIQUE ATMOSPHERE OF SERENDIPITY.

I MEAN, YOU JUST GO AND MEET WITH SO MANY DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

I REMEMBER WE'RE JUST GOING THERE PRE-PANDEMIC DAYS, LIKE GOING AND GETTING COFFEE AND BEING THERE, AND MEETING WITH SOMEBODY, AND HAVING THREE OTHER RANDOM MEETINGS THAT OCCURRED JUST BECAUSE YOU PASS SOMEBODY ELSE, YOU MEET SOMEBODY ELSE THAT'S COMING- - EXACTLY.

- SOMEBODY ELSE COMES IN TO THE SPACE.

- AND WE WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT FOR A LONG TIME, LIKE ENGINEERED SERENDIPITY OR CREATING THESE SERENDIPITOUS INTERACTIONS.

BUT IT'S REALLY HARD CONCEPTUALLY, TO FEEL THE VALUE FROM THAT WITHOUT EXPERIENCING IT FIRSTHAND.

IT'S LIKE, "OH YEAH, I'LL BUMP INTO PEOPLE IN THE HALLWAYS AND THAT'LL BE FUN," BUT THEN YOU GO AND YOU DO IT, AND YOU SHOW UP AND THEN YOU'RE MEETING WITH CRAIG AND THEN YOU BUMP INTO SOMEBODY ELSE, AND YOU BUMP INTO SOMEBODY ELSE, AND THEN ALL THESE RELATIONSHIPS START FORMING AND, "OH, YOU'RE DOING THIS?

YOU SHOULD TALK TO THIS OTHER PERSON."

- EXACTLY.

- AND IT ACTUALLY WORKS.

- RIGHT, THIS WHATS THE BIG REASON WHY STEVE JOBS AT APPLE WANTED A...

WHEN THEY BUILT THEIR NEW HEADQUARTERS, THEY PUT THE CAFETERIA IN THE CENTER, AND THEN A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE TO BUMP INTO EACH OTHER ON THEIR WAY TO THE BATHROOM.

- EXACTLY.

AND THEY DID THE SAME THING AT PIXAR, WHEN HE WAS IN CHARGE.

AND THEY CREATED THIS ENVIRONMENT OF THESE SERENDIPITOUS INTERACTIONS, THESE CREATIVE COLLISIONS.

(UPBEAT MUSIC) - I MEAN, IT'S STILL A PRETTY BIG LEAP FROM GOING FROM THERE, TO LIKE, OKAY, NOW YOU YOU'RE LIKE, LET ME GO BUY A BUILDING.

- RIGHT, 100,000 SQUARE FEET, COMING FROM A 24,000 SQUARE FEET, WHICH FELT MASSIVE.

WE ENDED UP FILLING IT UP WITH THE GROWTH OF PARDOT.

SO IT ALL WORKED OUT AMAZINGLY WELL, BUT GOING FROM 24,000 FEET, WITH A COMPANY THAT WAS GROWING SUPER FAST TO A 100,000 FEET, THAT WAS TOTALLY EMPTY AND NO COMPANY TO COME WITH IT.

SO PARDOT STAYED WITH SALESFORCE IN THE ORIGINAL BUILDING.

IT WAS DAUNTING, BUT IT WAS ALL PART OF THE PLAN THAT, WE'RE GONNA HAVE SPACE TO GROW INTO, AND IT'LL TAKE A WHILE AND WE'LL FIGURE IT OUT.

AND IT DID, IT EXCEEDED EXPECTATIONS.

- AND YOU COMPLETELY TRANSFORMED THE BUILDING, GUTTED IT, CHANGED THE ENTIRE DESIGN.

IT WAS THE OLD, THE ATLANTA BUSINESS CHRONICLE, RIGHT?

- [DAVID] THAT'S RIGHT.

- IN TERMS OF THE VENTURE ASPECT OF IT FOR ATLANTA VENTURES, DID YOU START ATLANTA VENTURES RIGHT THEN AT THE SAME TIME.

- YES, UPON SELLING PARDOT, STARTED ATLANTA VENTURES, AND THEN SIX WEEKS AFTER SELLING PARDOT BOUGHT THE TECH VILLAGE.

AND FROM A BUSINESS POINT OF VIEW, IT'S SORT OF LIKE SHORT TERM HOTEL.

LIKE THESE 30 DAY HOTELS?

- YEAH.

- AND THAT'S HOW IT IS.

SO IT'S A LOT MORE OPERATIONALLY HEAVY.

NO LEASES, PEOPLE PAY 30 DAYS AT A TIME.

AND SO VERY MUCH AN ACTIVE, SORT OF A HOSPITALITY VENTURE, A LITTLE BIT OF A REAL ESTATE VENTURE, BUT VERY DIFFERENT THAN SOFTWARE.

BUT I QUICKLY LEARNED ONCE WE FILLED UP THE TECH VILLAGE WITH TENANTS, THE MASSIVE, MASSIVE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOFTWARE AND REAL ESTATE, IS THAT REAL ESTATE ONCE YOU FILL IT UP, THERE'S NO MORE INVENTORY AVAILABLE.

SO WHEN WE FILLED UP THE TECH VILLAGE, PEOPLE WANTED TO MOVE IN, AND TO ADD ONE INCREMENTAL SQUARE FOOT OF SPACE, THERE'S NO WAY TO DO IT, WE'D HAVE TO GO BUY ANOTHER BUILDING.

SO I QUICKLY LEARNED THAT THE SOFTWARE WORLD IS AMAZING IN THAT WE HAVE INFINITE INVENTORY.

WE CAN JUST KEEP SELLING MORE LICENSES OR WE ADD MORE SERVERS IN THE CLOUD, BUT VERY EASY TO ADD MORE SERVERS IN THE CLOUD THAN IT IS TO GO BUY ANOTHER BUILDING OR EXPAND SOMEPLACE ELSE.

- SO I'M CURIOUS, I THINK YOU MENTIONED THAT AT PARDOT, YOU GUYS NEVER TOOK ANY MONEY, OUTSIDE MONEY, VENTURE, THEN SHORTLY AFTER THAT, YOU NOW ARE A VC.

WAS THAT BY DESIGN AT PARDOT ON NOT TO TAKE VENTURE MONEY, OR HOW DO YOU VIEW WHEN IT'S RIGHT FOR A STARTUP TO TAKE OUTSIDE MONEY?

- SO FOR US, WE TRIED REALLY HARD TO RAISE MONEY.

WE PITCHED TONS OF VC'S AT PARDOT.

WE FLEW TO BOSTON, WE FLEW TO CALIFORNIA MULTIPLE TIMES.

AND WAS A STRANGE TIME IN THE WORLD.

THIS IS 2010, SO A FEW YEARS AFTER THE GREAT RECESSION.

VALUATIONS WERE REALLY DEPRESSED.

OUR BUSINESS WAS GROWING REALLY NICELY.

AND SO WE GOT TO THE TERM SHEET STAGE, AND THEN JUST DID SOME SPREADSHEET MATH, AND IT WAS CLEAR THAT IT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE TO RAISE MONEY BECAUSE WE WERE GROWING REALLY EFFICIENTLY, AND THEN FROM A VALUATIONS POINT OF VIEW.

SO WE COULD HAVE RAISED A FEW MILLION BUCKS, AND SOLD A BIG CHUNK OF THE BUSINESS, OR WE COULD KEEP GROWING A LITTLE BIT SLOWER BUT OWNED THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE BUSINESS IN ADDITION TO THE EMPLOYEES AND CONTROL OUR OWN DESTINY.

AND IT WORKED OUT GREAT.

NOWADAYS, OBVIOUSLY, MY ADVICE TO ENTREPRENEURS IS, FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT RELATIONSHIP IS BETWEEN GROWTH RATE AND BURN RATE, AND DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO GIVE UP CONTROL OR DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO BRING ON OUTSIDE INVESTORS TO GET INVOLVED IN THE BUSINESS?

AND IT REALLY JUST DEPENDS ON, WHAT VALUATION YOU CAN GET ON WHAT TERMS.

BUT GENERAL RULE OF THUMB THAT I HAVE IS SOMEWHERE IN THE FIVE TO ONE RATIO.

SO IF YOU RAISE A DOLLAR OF CAPITAL AND YOU CAN MAKE THAT DOLLAR OF CAPITAL OF THE BUSINESS $5 IS MORE VALUABLE FROM AN ENTERPRISE VALUE POINT OF VIEW, IT PROBABLY MAKES SENSE.

SO YOU PUT A DOLLAR INTO THE MACHINE AND THE MACHINE BECOMES $5 MORE VALUABLE, THEN DO IT.

TOO OFTEN ENTREPRENEURS GO RAISE $5 MILLION AND PUT THE CAPITAL TO WORK, AND THE BUSINESS ONLY BECOMES 10 MILLION MORE VALUABLE.

AT WHICH CASE, OFTENTIMES IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE, BECAUSE OF WHAT EQUITY AND WHAT RIGHTS AND WHAT TERMS YOU HAD TO GIVE UP TO THE INVESTORS.

- YEAH, SO AS SOMEBODY WHO NOW IS RUNNING A VENTURE FUND, WHAT DO YOU LOOK FOR IN COMPANIES THAT YOU WANNA INVEST IN?

LIKE, WHAT ARE THE KEY METRICS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT?

- SO MOST OF OUR INVESTMENTS ARE AT THE EARLIEST STAGE.

SO THEY'RE STARTUPS FROM SCRATCH.

WE LIKE IDEAS ON NAPKINS.

AND WE'RE LOOKING FOR MARKETS THAT ARE REALLY SMALL RIGHT NOW.

SO SMALL THAT MOST PEOPLE DON'T CARE, NOT MUCH COMPETITION YET, BUT THEY'RE GROWING REALLY FAST.

SO IF YOU SQUINT AND YOU LOOK AROUND THE CORNER AND LOOK OUT FIVE YEARS IN ADVANCE, MAYBE SEVEN YEARS, YOU'RE LIKE, "YES, THIS THING IS GONNA HAVE A BIG MARKET," BUT IT'S TINY TODAY, IT'S A SMALL BUT FAST GROWING ON THE MARKET SIDE.

AND THEN ON THE PEOPLE SIDE, OF COURSE IT'S ALL ABOUT GRIT AND RESILIENCE, IT'S ALL ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE GONNA RUN THROUGH BRICK WALLS AND JUST FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE IT WORK.

(UPBEAT MUSIC) - SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FOUNDERS AND YOU SAID YOU LIKE TO INVEST IN EARLY COMPANIES, REALLY IT'S JUST AN IDEA, AND THAT'S KIND OF THE RISKIEST TIME TO INVEST.

HOW DO YOU MITIGATE THAT RISK IF IT'S SO EARLY?

I MEAN, YOU'RE BETTING REALLY ON THE FOUNDERS AND AN IDEA AT THAT POINT, RIGHT?

- YEAH, TOTALLY ON THE FOUNDERS, AND 9 TIMES OUT OF 10, THE IDEA MORPHS WITH TIME.

IT PIVOTS INTO SOMETHING ELSE OR YOU'RE TALKING TO A POTENTIAL CUSTOMER, AND THEY SAY, "THAT SOUNDS NICE, "BUT I REALLY HAVE ISSUE OVER HERE."

AND THEN YOU GO DOWN THAT RABBIT TRAIL, AND WHAT WE FOUND IS THAT YOU BET ON THE PERSON AND THEN REALLY WORK HARD AND REALLY TRY TO BE AS HELPFUL AS POSSIBLE TO FIND THE BEST IDEA.

SO I'M REALLY NOT ATTACHED TO SPECIFIC IDEAS, BUT I DO LIKE THINKING THROUGH MARKETS.

SO LET'S PICK A GOOD MARKET, LET'S TALK ABOUT A STARTING POINT AN IDEA IN THAT MARKET, BUT THEN LET'S BE OPEN-MINDED TO FIND AN EVEN BETTER OPPORTUNITY WITHIN THAT MARKET.

SO IT'S MORE MARKETS AND LESS IDEAS, KNOWING THAT STARTING SOMEWHERE WE CAN ZIG AND ZAG TO FIND THE BEST IDEA WITHIN WHATEVER SANDBOX WE'RE PLAYING IN.

- RIGHT, SO WHAT KIND OF QUALITIES ARE YOU LOOKING FOR IN A FOUNDER?

- REALLY LIKE ONES THAT HAVE A CHIP ON THEIR SHOULDER, THEY WANNA PROVE SOMETHING.

THEY WANNA SHOW THE WORLD THEY CAN DO IT.

THEY REALLY WANT TO BE SUCCESSFUL, BUT IN A WAY THAT IS MUCH MORE SO THAN THE AVERAGE PERSON.

SO THEY HAVE SOMETHING ABOUT THEM THAT SAYS LIKE THEY ARE GOING TO SUCCEED, THEY'RE GONNA FIGURE IT OUT.

AND THEN ALSO LOOK FOR PATTERNS OR CLUES AROUND WORK ETHIC, AND GRIT, AND RESILIENCE.

ONE OF MY FAVORITES OBVIOUSLY IS THE FAILED ENTREPRENEUR.

SOMEBODY WHO'S BEEN AN ENTREPRENEUR, IT DIDN'T WORK, WHICH IS MOST OF THE TIME.

BUT THEN THEY WANT TO GO DO IT AGAIN.

THEY GO START THEIR NEXT STARTUP AND THEY STILL BELIEVE THEY CAN BE SUCCESSFUL.

THAT'S MY FAVORITE.

SO THE FAILED ENTREPRENEUR THAT'S DOING IT AGAIN.

- WHY IS THAT YOUR FAVORITE?

I MEAN, SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY, WELL, MAYBE IF IT DIDN'T WORK OUT THE FIRST TIME.

AND I KNOW MOST STARTUPS FAIL SO, OR A LOT OF THEM DO, BUT WOULDN'T YOU BE NERVOUS THAT, HEY, MAYBE THEY WERE THE PART OF THE PROBLEM?

- ABSOLUTELY, THAT'S DEFINITELY A HUGE CONCERN, BUT THE FLIP SIDE OF IT IS AFTER HAVING A STARTUP THAT DIDN'T WORK, AND THEN GOING AND DOING IT AGAIN, THE ENTREPRENEURS ARE MUCH MORE COACHABLE, THEY'RE MUCH MORE OPEN TO FEEDBACK.

THE ENTREPRENEURS ARE HUNGRIER.

THEY ALREADY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GETTING INTO IN TERMS OF EXPECTATIONS.

- RIGHT AND THEN THEY'RE ALSO ARE MORE ADAPTABLE TO WHAT THE MARKET WANTS.

ONE OF THE MOST COMMON REASONS FOR ENTREPRENEURIAL FAILURE IS THAT THEY BUILD THE FIELD OF DREAMS, THEY THINK THE MARKET WANTS IT, AND THEN NOBODY SHOWS UP FOR IT.

THE SECOND TIME AROUND, THEY'RE MUCH MORE LIKELY TO BE OPEN TO FEEDBACK.

THEIR EARS AND THEIR MINDSET IS MUCH MORE ATTUNED TO, "HEY, LET ME FIGURE OUT WHAT THE MARKET WANTS, AS OPPOSED TO JUST WHAT I THINK THE MARKET WANTS."

SO IT ALL FALLS INTO THAT UMBRELLA OF MORE ADAPTABLE, MORE COACHABLE, BUT YET THEY'RE STILL CRAZY ENOUGH TO WANNA DO IT AGAIN.

- YOU'VE MENTIONED MARKETS A FEW TIMES, WHICH I THINK IS INTERESTING HOW YOU LOOK AT IT.

ARE THERE ANY PARTICULAR MARKETS THAT YOU'RE INTERESTED IN OR THAT YOU FOCUS ON, OR ARE YOU PRETTY OPEN TO LEARNING AND EXPANDING INTO DIFFERENT OF MARKETS, AS LONG AS YOU THINK THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY AND THE RIGHT FOUNDER?

- YEAH, SUPER OPEN ON THE MARKET SIDE.

THERE'S A BUNCH THAT I'M PERSONALLY INTERESTED IN.

SOME OF THE TRENDS THAT I LIKE, ONE IS THE CORPORATION OF ONE, WHICH IS A FANCY WAY OF SAYING ALL OF THESE CONSULTANTS AND FREELANCERS AND THE GIG ECONOMY.

I THINK IS SUPER FASCINATING.

THE SOCIETAL SHIFT AWAY FROM THE BIG COMPANY OR EVEN THE SMALL COMPANY, WHERE IT'S A BUNCH OF FREELANCERS THAT DO REALLY HIGH SKILLED JOBS, THAT THEY DO IT ON THEIR OWN TIME, AND THEY DO IT IN THEIR OWN WAY.

SO THAT'S A MARKET THAT I THINK IS SUPER INTERESTING.

AND OTHER MARKET THAT I REALLY LIKE IS AROUND NUTRITION AND FOOD AND PLANT-BASED DIETS, AND ALL THE DIFFERENT TRENDS AROUND WHAT YOU PUT INTO YOUR BODY, IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST DETERMINANTS OF HEALTH.

WHERE AS A SOCIETY WE'VE BUILT UP AMAZING FAST FOOD CHAINS, WE'VE BUILT UP AMAZING FOOD DELIVERY SERVICES AND GROCERY STORES, BUT 99% OF THAT STUFF IS GARBAGE IN TERMS OF FUEL FOR YOUR BODY.

SO I THINK THAT WHOLE AREA HAS A BUNCH OF OPPORTUNITY.

AND THEN OF COURSE, TECHNOLOGY, ANYTHING RELATED TO SALES AND MARKETING AND PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT AND TECHNOLOGY, LIKE HARDCORE TECHNOLOGIES, ROBOTICS, THOSE ARE ALL MARKETS VERY BROADLY SPEAKING THAT I FIND INTERESTING.

(UPBEAT MUSIC) - AND IN TERMS OF FAILURE, LESSONS AND YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU, MISTAKES YOU'VE MADE AND THINGS YOU'VE LEARNED FROM, AS AN INVESTOR OR AN ENTREPRENEUR YOURSELF?

- SO THE MOST COMMON MISTAKES.

ONE, IS BUILDING A PRODUCT THAT'S ONLY INCREMENTALLY BETTER THAN WHAT'S AVAILABLE IN THE MARKET.

SO YOU BUILD A NEW WIDGET, IT'S ONLY 10% BETTER THAN THE STANDARD WIDGET ON THE MARKET.

VERSUS PARDOT IN THE EARLY DAYS, MARKETING AUTOMATION FOR MARKETERS, FOR B2B MARKETERS, IT WAS 10 TIMES BETTER THAN ANYTHING THEY COULD DO THEMSELVES.

SO THIS IDEA OF A, REVOLUTIONARY PRODUCT VERSUS JUST AN EVOLUTIONARY PRODUCT, 10X BETTER VERSUS 10% BETTER.

AND SO I THINK MOST ENTREPRENEUR IDEAS, AT LEAST THEIR INITIAL IDEAS ARE ONLY INCREMENTALLY BETTER, AND THAT'S A SUPER COMMON REASON WHY MOST ENTREPRENEURS FAIL.

THEY DON'T MAKE SOMETHING THAT'S SUFFICIENTLY DIFFERENT IN THE MARKET.

ONE WAY I HEARD IT DESCRIBED, WHICH I REALLY LIKED IS, "YOU WANNA BE THE ORANGE IN A SEA OF APPLES."

IT'S STILL FRUIT, IT'S STILL FOOD, BUT YOU LOOK OUT AT A SEA OF APPLES THAT ARE ALL GREEN, AND THEN YOU SEE THIS ONE ORANGE, IT'S REALLY DIFFERENT, IT REALLY STANDS OUT.

IT'S CLEARLY DIFFERENTIATED FROM THE OTHER OFFERINGS IN THE MARKET.

- WHAT ARE SOME THINGS THAT YOU WISH THAT ENTREPRENEURS KNEW OR THOUGHT ABOUT, OR MAYBE BEFORE THEY GOT INTO STARTING YOUR OWN BUSINESS THAT MAYBE DOESN'T GET TALKED ABOUT AS MUCH?

- I THINK AS A SOCIETY, WE'RE VERY FOCUSED ON FOLLOWING DIRECTIONS.

DO THIS IN SCHOOL AND YOU GET AN A, TAKE THIS TEST IF YOU WANT TO GO TO GET YOUR LICENSE IN THIS THING.

BUT THE REALITY IS THAT, THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE WORLD IS NOT, HERE'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO SUCCEED, THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE WORLD IS YOU FIGURE IT OUT AS YOU GO.

AND SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE ENTREPRENEURS TO JUST START FIGURING THINGS OUT.

IF YOU WANNA BE AN ENTREPRENEUR, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE AN IDEA, GO START AN EBAY BUSINESS, GO START AN AMAZON STORE.

JUST DO SOMETHING, GO START A PRESSURE WASH BUSINESS, JUST IN BUSINESS FOR YOURSELF, EVEN IF IT'S A SIDE HUSTLE, BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY UNKNOWNS.

AND EVEN IF YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING THAT ISN'T INNOVATIVE, YOU'RE STILL DEVELOPING THAT MUSCLE OF JUST FIGURING THINGS OUT AS YOU GO.

- WELL, AND ALSO THE SKILLSET OF JUST RUNNING YOUR OWN BUSINESS, WHICH IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM WORKING FOR SOMEBODY ELSE.

- THAT'S RIGHT.

THERE'S SO MANY LITTLE DETAILS, FROM ACCOUNTING TO PAYROLL IF YOU HAVE EMPLOYEES, TO INSURANCE, TO SALES AND MARKETING.

ACQUIRING CUSTOMERS IS OFTEN THE MOST DIFFICULT THING, FOR A LOT OF DIFFERENT REASONS.

(UPBEAT MUSIC) - IN TERMS OF ATLANTA, WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT YOU THINK THAT ARE GOING WELL?

AND WHAT DO YOU THINK SOME THINGS THAT YOU THINK COULD BE BETTER.

THERE ARE STILL SOME GROWING PAINS.

I KNOW FOR A WHILE, PEOPLE WOULD ALWAYS SAY, THERE'S A LOT OF ENTREPRENEURS, THERE'S A LOT OF BUSINESSES HERE, A LOT OF STARTUPS, THERE'S A LOT OF TALENT, TECH TALENT PEOPLE, WITH THE GEORGIA TECH AND OTHER SURROUNDING UNIVERSITIES, BUT BIG ISSUE WAS RAISING MONEY.

AND IT WASN'T AS EASY TO RAISE MONEY.

ALTHOUGH IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S CHANGING.

- DRAMATICALLY CHANGED.

- SO WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS YOU STILL SEE?

- ON THE GOING WELL SIDE, WE ARE JUST CRUSHING IT WITH THINGS LIKE UNICORNS.

SO IN THE STARTUP WORLD, A UNICORN IS A PRIVATE COMPANY THAT'S VALUED AT $1 BILLION OR MORE, JUST AN ASTRONOMICAL AMOUNT OF MONEY.

AND HISTORICALLY IN ATLANTA, WE WOULD HAVE ONE UNICORN EVERY THREE TO FOUR YEARS.

NOW, THE PAST 12 MONTHS, WE'VE HAD ONE UNICORN PER QUARTER.

- WOW.

- YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD FOUR OR FIVE UNICORNS JUST IN THE PAST 12 MONTHS, WHICH IS PHENOMENAL.

ON THE AREAS THAT WE CAN DO BETTER, AFTER IT'S A UNICORN AND YOU'VE RAISED ALL THIS MONEY AND YOU HAVE THIS AMAZING VALUATION, YOU STILL GOT TO HAVE PUBLICLY TRADED COMPANIES, RIGHT?

ICE IS PUBLICLY TRADED, OWNS THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE.

COMPANIES THAT ARE PUBLICLY TRADED, GET 10X, IF NOT 100X, THE PUBLICITY, AND THE ANALYSTS, AND THE NEWS COVERAGE AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

AND SO THE OPPORTUNITY FROM AN ATLANTA POINT OF VIEW, WE REALLY NEED TO HAVE MULTIPLE TECH IPO'S PER YEAR.

SO OBVIOUSLY HAVING THE UNICORNS SHOWS THAT WE HAVE TONS OF COMPANIES THAT ARE GETTING CLOSE TO BEING IPO READY, OR THEY PROBABLY ARE IPO READY IN SOME CASES, BUT NOW WE NEED TO SEE THAT NEXT LEVEL.

SO WE'RE WEAK IN TERMS OF LOCAL, PUBLICLY TRADED TECH COMPANIES.

WE HAVE SOME, BUT NOT A BUNCH.

- IT'S INTERESTING YOU SAY THAT, BECAUSE I REMEMBER WHEN WE WERE BUILDING ICE, OUR STATED GOAL WAS TO GO PUBLIC.

AND BACK IN THE EARLY 2000S, THAT WAS KIND OF LIKE, IF YOU WERE A STARTUP, YOU WANTED TO GO PUBLIC.

AND BEFORE THE .COM BUST, THERE WERE A LOT OF COMPANIES WENT PUBLIC, BUT IT SEEMED LIKE AFTER THAT... AND WE WENT PUBLIC IN '05.

BUT IT SEEMED LIKE AFTER THAT, AND MORE RECENTLY THAT GOING PUBLIC HASN'T BEEN AS MUCH THE GOAL, THERE THERE'S BEEN OTHER WAYS TO EXIT MAKE MONEY AND IT SEEMS LIKE SELLING TO ANOTHER COMPANY HAS REALLY BEEN REALLY MORE THE GOAL.

BUT NOW IN THE LAST YEAR OR SO, SPACS HAVE BECOME REALLY POPULAR.

- SPACS ARE CRAZY POPULAR.

I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A LARGE ENDURING INDEPENDENT COMPANY, IPO IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO.

AND SO I DO THINK THAT'S PART OF THE CULTURE THAT IS EVOLVING.

WE'RE NOT THERE YET BY ANY MEANS, BUT MORE SUCCESS STORIES, MORE COMPANIES GOING PUBLIC, WILL THEN SET THE TONE AND THE EXPECTATIONS AND THE POTENTIAL.

AND SO I THINK PUBLIC COMPANY SUCCESS WILL BREED EVEN MORE PUBLIC COMPANY SUCCESS IN OUR LOCAL COMMUNITY.

- WELL, DAVID, THANK YOU FOR BEING ON "TECHRIDES."

I REALLY ENJOYED THIS DRIVE.

- YEAH, THIS IS AWESOME.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

- THANK YOU.

(UPBEAT MUSIC) (CAR ENGINE REVVING)